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View Full Version : Reaction to Kournikova after five years: assess yours.


Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Five years since she peaked in form, let's assess people's response to hearing:

"Kournikova, the blonde beauty who's never won a title, has lost 6-0 6-0 and says she's happy because it was a learing experience...and her opponent was just too good...and she'll just work harder."

I'll enter the first vote in the "who cares" section.

Yak
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:33 AM
If you hate her that much, why do you write so much about her? Your the one giving her a headline here!!!

Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:35 AM
Yeah, I know, I realise that. But it's something I had to express...and I'm interested in hearing other people's views.

She gets press coverage non-stop anyway. So I'm not really changing anything.

My reaction would have been "it's a shame" a while ago. But there comes a time.... :rolleyes:

Yak
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:40 AM
She gets press coverage non-stop anyway. So I'm not really changing anything.

You are changing something! You are giving her another headline... If she is that bad :rolleyes:, what's the point of posting about her, she's not good, right? This is pathetic!

We could do the same kind of poll about Stevenson, Dementieva and Nancy Loeffler-Caro!

Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:47 AM
Well I'm too tired to argue with somebody so angry.

As I've said in another thread where your heart was clearly raised a beat, I have an even lower opinion of Stevenson as a player and as a person.

But my whole point is that I'm not constantly reading about her in the press.

Dementieva has flattered to deceive, true. But how often do we read about her?

And as for the other one(whoever she was)...how often do we read about her?

I think I've defined the differences (as if they needed defining) between the players you mentioned and Anna Kournikova.

Yak
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:50 AM
Yeah, but is it Anna's fault if she is in the headlines? Should she cut her hair and dye it black and start playing tennis in a ski-doo suit? She'll get headlines again, so whatever she does, she'll get attention? Is that her fault.....NO! It's my fault, your fault, every Anna fan's fault, every Anna hater's fault, every media's fault...well it's everybody's fault but Anna's!!!

Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:56 AM
...well it's everybody's fault but Anna's!!!

As a young, capable player, I disagree with you strongly. It's Anna's attitude and refusal to face her problems as a person and as a player.

But I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for voting :)

Mikey
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:03 AM
While I agree with Rus, I will post my opinion anyway.

I am NOT a fan of hers, but I do think that she was a good player and that it's a shame that she's doing not so well. I do think that part of that revolves around the fact that she hasn't completely decided on her intent to a be a full time tennis player - once she sorts out where she wants to go with her life, she'll probably be very good at whatever she chooses.

For most people that would vote for the "Who Cares" option, it's probably a lack of knowledge. I was ignorant about the girl and I just thought she was a terrible player until my friend told me about her (it was kind of funny considering I said "she sucks" and then I got a lecture :p ) and I have more respect for her now.

Havok
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:04 AM
ok i hate to do this but i mean compare Anna with Andy Roddick. i mean they have both been in the public eye ever since they stepped foot on court and look at what Andy has done, now we can't say the same thing about Anna now can we. i mean it's none of these players faults that they are popular and always in the public eyes. i mean it's not like they go and tell the tv people to shopw them on tv all the time, but it's the way they both deal with it. Andy tries to push it away more than Anna does and he concentrates more on tennis, while Anna on the other hand is stuck in this "celebrity" thing. she just has to shut it out for a while, and get the ball rolling againt in her career, her tennis career i mean

Mikey
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:09 AM
Before I play devil's advocate, I just want to say that I do tire of the constant Anna coverage when she plays like this.

With that said, it bothers me the most when people forget that tennis is an industry. Plain and simple. They want to draw viewers, they want high ratings, they want ticket sales, they wants crowds - they want MONEY.

Picture this: a player is top 20, on the rise and soon to be top 15. They go to the US Open where they are stuck on court 11 - not a TV court, not a show court, not even a court with enough benches to seat everyone watching. However, a player who isn't even top 50 is on the stadium court where she will eventually lose to a player who she can definitely beat, but the stadium is overly packed. This scenario? It happened. While I waited in line for food, I watched Anna K. on stadium court on the big screen and then wondered why Anna Smashnova was relegated to the smaller court. But I dont blame them. They know who draws crowds. They know who's important to fans and who, well, isn't.

At Eastbourne last year, if Martina Navrtilova had not been placed on center court, not only would there have been disapproval, but the people would have gone to see her on the side courts anyway - it would have been really funny to see if they went to see her or the top seed, Jelena Dokic, at the tournament.

They know what they're doing - give them a break.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:33 AM
leave anna alone you damn moron...u give her these headlines and yet you think she gets too much attention BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!! same old same old...heard from a million people a million times....get over it..shes famous and will always be a celebrity and shes a struggling tennis player...stop judging her...the girl is a great tennis player give her some time :rolleyes:

GBFH
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:41 AM
:wavey: dlandy!

I don't think Anna's great...she's good...she could (and I hope she does) do better.

Honestly, what's the big deal about her getting press? It's like watching tv, if you don't like it, switch channels. No one forces you to read Anna articles.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:44 AM
:wavey: dlandy!

I don't think Anna's great...she's good...she could (and I hope she does) do better.

Honestly, what's the big deal about her getting press? It's like watching tv, if you don't like it, switch channels. No one forces you to read Anna articles.
EXACTLY...and the worst part is, this guy doesnt like her and yet is giving her headlines about something that has been talked about TO NO END on this messageboard

anna is GREAT by the way ;)

GO ANNA!!!

GBFH
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:50 AM
EXACTLY...and the worst part is, this guy doesnt like her and yet is giving her headlines about something that has been talked about TO NO END on this messageboard

anna is GREAT by the way ;)

GO ANNA!!!

The "great" label is not debatable ;) When you win majors, you are great ;)

Like I said, what is the big deal? There are a lot more underachievers in tennis than champions. Jumping all over one of them just because she gets a lot of attention is ludicrous.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:55 AM
I agree...that along with the fact that she has a tough life, tries SO HARD to get better, has proven she is a REALLY good ;) tennis player, and yet people choose to rag on her JUST because of the attention she gets....shame on all these people...

Tennis Fool
Apr 10th, 2003, 03:57 AM
Reaction?

Playboy's 2005 Playmate of the Year

Won the title although she insisted all the nude shots be covered up :p

vogus
Apr 10th, 2003, 07:12 AM
hey Steffica it was a good thread and you made a good point about AK not facing her problems as a tennis player and as a person.

Anna has talent, but she has no incentive to face her problems - she makes a lot of money doing nothing, so why should she change anything. She's pathetic and everyone except really stupid people (who unfortunately make up 2/3 of the people that post in WTAWorld) knows this. But 10 mil a year is 10 mil a year.

It's only morons who make the excuse (used by Anna herself) that Anna can't change the attention. If she didn't want it, she could easily fire all her agents and shut the whole circus down in a flash. She needs the attention and she lives off it. Except for the attention her life is empty.

If anything, winning tennis matches would cause her to be LESS famous. So why should she? (BTW I voted #1 in your poll)

I also agree that as pathetic as the AK situation is, Stevenson is even worse.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 10th, 2003, 12:51 PM
less famous for winning tennis matches? oh yeah, that makes tons of sense...she'd be on television more, she'd give people more of a chance to see her live if she is around longer...but she'd be less popular :rolleyes:
she makes money doing nothing? she makes money doing advertisements, photoshoots, and playing tennis...that sounds like SOMETHING to me...
LOL yeah anna, go fire all your agents and turn down all the offers you get worth millions of dollars!!! throw away your fortune!!!
her life is nothing without attention? YOU DONT EVEN KNOW ANNA AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT LOL....you make it sound like you know the girl :rolleyes:
the only thing about your post that is true is that she has yet to really face her troubles as A TENNIS PLAYER...but anna's personal life is her own and you know nothing about it so stop acting like you do :rolleyes:

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 01:57 PM
Steffica:

I can understand people thinking Anna has problems with her tennis, but what exactly are Anna's "problems as a person?"

Dava
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:01 PM
Anna was a good player, she may still be given the time, over the next two years it will be make or break for her. It will be interesting to what happens.

GoGoMaggie
Apr 10th, 2003, 02:20 PM
I think she's partly responsible for getting the attention from the media. If she would like to minimize the attention, she should stop doing or at least cut down on all the non-tennis things such as modelling. But she seems not to want to concentrate on her profession which is supposed to be playing tennis. Plus I don't think her decline has so much to do with the pressure from the media attention. She simply sucks at tennis and thus her ranking is where it is now. I have no problem with her always playing in big courts despite her ranking cuz as someone put, it's all about business. But she should realized or has realized she just lives off what she was born with that is her beauty. She's totally aware and seems proud of it. She should consider herself lucky to have been born so beautiful. If she considered herself as unfortunate for all the stuff she has had to gone thru, she would have to be damned.

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 04:04 PM
Just exactly why Kournikova gets all the flack is a mystery to me.

Yes, she has never won a singles title, but she has made finals (I think three of them) and in all cases, lost to top players, Venus and Martina.

She has also accomplished much in doubles. I think she has about 15 doubles titles, including two slam tiles at the AO. Yes, I know she played mostly with Hingis, who I considered the second greatest doubles player ever. But look at their record. I believe they actually took the court 70 times together and lost just four matches. Not even Hingis could carry someone and achieve that kind of record. Anna was also ranked number one in doubles, as I remember it.

The truth may be that Anna really is much better at doubles than singles. Is there some disgrace in that? There are many players on both tours who are considered "doubles specialists."

Rennea Stubbs, a very respected doubles player, also used to compete regularly in singles. She was on the tour since at least 1988 and guess what? She never won a singles title in her entire career.

Some players are far less nervous and seem to think much clearer when playing doubles.

As to all the other stuff, the complaints about her "personal life," I would submit that about 95 percent of the women on the planet would happily swap lives with Anna Kournikova. Why not? She was born into a poor Russian family, and she is now a multi, multi-millionairess living an almost storybook existance. She is beautiful and she gets lot of male attention, something most women seem to crave. (if they don't, then why do they collectively spend billions on clothes, cosmetics, frangrancies, etc. etc.)

Is Anna bad for tennis? Well, I assume you all noted that she was the first person picked in the World Team Tennis draft or whatever it is.
I assume she will probably continue to get as many wild cards into WTA tournaments as she desires. In fact, they'll probably change the rule if need be to accomodate her.

See, the thing is, nobody holds a gun to any fan's head and forces them to go to a tennis match to see Anna Kournikova. Nobody forces the press to write about her.

Nobody forces anyone to start threads about her here.

It's all voluntary.

But one thing, the slagging of her personal life seems a little out of line to me. I haven't seen anything in her "personal life" that merits it. She's had some high profile boyfriends. So what? To my knowledge, there is nothing either illegal or immoral about dating famous men.

In fact, I would imagine a lot of women wish they had that opportunity.

In fact, I suspect that much of the criticism of Anna Kournilova can be summed up in one word, jealousy

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 10th, 2003, 04:45 PM
Just exactly why Kournikova gets all the flack is a mystery to me.

Yes, she has never won a singles title, but she has made finals (I think three of them) and in all cases, lost to top players, Venus and Martina.

She has also accomplished much in doubles. I think she has about 15 doubles titles, including two slam tiles at the AO. Yes, I know she played mostly with Hingis, who I considered the second greatest doubles player ever. But look at their record. I believe they actually took the court 70 times together and lost just four matches. Not even Hingis could carry someone and achieve that kind of record. Anna was also ranked number one in doubles, as I remember it.

The truth may be that Anna really is much better at doubles than singles. Is there some disgrace in that? There are many players on both tours who are considered "doubles specialists."

Rennea Stubbs, a very respected doubles player, also used to compete regularly in singles. She was on the tour since at least 1988 and guess what? She never won a singles title in her entire career.

Some players are far less nervous and seem to think much clearer when playing doubles.

As to all the other stuff, the complaints about her "personal life," I would submit that about 95 percent of the women on the planet would happily swap lives with Anna Kournikova. Why not? She was born into a poor Russian family, and she is now a multi, multi-millionairess living an almost storybook existance. She is beautiful and she gets lot of male attention, something most women seem to crave. (if they don't, then why do they collectively spend billions on clothes, cosmetics, frangrancies, etc. etc.)

Is Anna bad for tennis? Well, I assume you all noted that she was the first person picked in the World Team Tennis draft or whatever it is.
I assume she will probably continue to get as many wild cards into WTA tournaments as she desires. In fact, they'll probably change the rule if need be to accomodate her.

See, the thing is, nobody holds a gun to any fan's head and forces them to go to a tennis match to see Anna Kournikova. Nobody forces the press to write about her.

Nobody forces anyone to start threads about her here.

It's all voluntary.

But one thing, the slagging of her personal life seems a little out of line to me. I haven't seen anything in her "personal life" that merits it. She's had some high profile boyfriends. So what? To my knowledge, there is nothing either illegal or immoral about dating famous men.

In fact, I would imagine a lot of women wish they had that opportunity.

In fact, I suspect that much of the criticism of Anna Kournilova can be summed up in one word, jealousy

Jealousy? Are you that far gone into Anna world that you fail to see why the majority of people criticize her? Its simple. She was hyped along with martina and venus as being the next big thing in tennis, the new wave, the next generation of championship grand slam winning tennis divas! She had everything they had and the talent to back it up however her career has gone horribly wrong in comparison to her peers, venus and martina.

For someone who was not only hyped as much as she was but deservedly so, it is a crime that she hasn't achieved what she should have. That is why she is so critized. That and the fact that she is "tennis star" without the legitimacy of a solid career to back it up. You made the comparison to renaee, well renaee was never hyped like anna never had the sheer talent anna has and renaee has done quite well for herself hasn't she?

If anna never had the talent and game people would have stopped critizing her long ago for the most part. she would have just been considered a side show attraction.

Spirit
Apr 10th, 2003, 04:54 PM
After five years, my opinion of Anna is that she looks as hot as ever.

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 05:13 PM
Cybelle:

But who did the hyping? I have never seen a press released issued by Anna Kournikova herself. She never issued proclamations that she would be a major star. She wasn't the one doing the hyping.

You could have a quarrel with the WTA tour, or with the media, but why with her?

What you seem to be saying is Anna didn't live up to others' expectations for her, so she should be condemned. Maybe those expectations were always too high.

The truth was, in juniors she almost always, if not always, lost to Hingis. Anna is a good player in my view, but not on the same level with Hingis or the Williams sisters and probably not with Kim and some others.

She always has, in my view, made very bad choices in singles, starting with that Miami finals match against Venus, where she won the first set handily, then changed her strategy and not only allowed Venus to get back into the match, but pretty much blew any chance of winning by consistantly hitting down the middle and and waiting for Venus to make unforced errors. I remember watching that match on TV and being just plain baffled by Anna's bizarre game plan. It's almost like she choked, but it was a two set long choke.

And that was a lot earlier in her career.

And no, I am not even particularly into her at all. I liked her in doubles. But I also think there is a double standard here. You seem to be saying it is OK that Rennea never won a singles title, but not ok that Anna has not, even though Rennea has been on the tour a lot longer. But because the media made a much bigger deal of Anna, it is Anna's fault she is not more successful.


Yes, Anna didn't turn out to be a big winner in singles. Guess what?

For years, neither did Lindsay Davenport or Jennifer Capriati. Both, especially Capriati, were looked upon as never having reached their potential. And no one, not the Williams sisters or Hingis, was hyped more by the American tennis press than Capriati.

Anna is still just 21. Who is to say she won't eventually get there, or that she may not surpass Stubbs in doubles?

Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2003, 05:18 PM
TonyP: My criticisms of Anna as a person are based on my paraphrased quotation (in the first post) of her excuses usd for the last 4/5 years after losing matches. But the players that she concedes are "too good" for her are becoming lower ranked by the month. The harder she works, the more she loses. The amount of losing she's done, surely she's learnt all there is to learn from the experience of defeat.

In short, she's never faced up to her problems. Her behaviour at Wimbledon last year was a perfect demonstration.

Anna really needs to recognise her problems before she can move forward. But she can't do that - because her personality won't allow her to do that. She's her own worst enemy.

No, I'm not expecting Anna to be a perfect person, nor am I saying she's an awful human being. But anybody who's followed Anna's results for the last five years knows that her succession of catastrophic singles failures (relative to her ability) are more owed to her deluded character than to injuries or anything else.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 10th, 2003, 05:26 PM
Cybelle:

But who did the hyping? I have never seen a press released issued by Anna Kournikova herself. She never issued proclamations that she would be a major star. She wasn't the one doing the hyping.

You could have a quarrel with the WTA tour, or with the media, but why with her?

What you seem to be saying is Anna didn't live up to others' expectations for her, so she should be condemned. Maybe those expectations were always too high.

The truth was, in juniors she almost always, if not always, lost to Hingis. Anna is a good player in my view, but not on the same level with Hingis or the Williams sisters and probably not with Kim and some others.

She always has, in my view, made very bad choices in singles, starting with that Miami finals match against Venus, where she won the first set handily, then changed her strategy and not only allowed Venus to get back into the match, but pretty much blew any chance of winning by consistantly hitting down the middle and and waiting for Venus to make unforced errors. I remember watching that match on TV and being just plain baffled by Anna's bizarre game plan. It's almost like she choked, but it was a two set long choke.

And that was a lot earlier in her career.

And no, I am not even particularly into her at all. I liked her in doubles. But I also think there is a double standard here. You seem to be saying it is OK that Rennea never won a singles title, but not ok that Anna has not, even though Rennea has been on the tour a lot longer. But because the media made a much bigger deal of Anna, it is Anna's fault she is not more successful.


Yes, Anna didn't turn out to be a big winner in singles. Guess what?

For years, neither did Lindsay Davenport or Jennifer Capriati. Both, especially Capriati, were looked upon as never having reached their potential. And no one, not the Williams sisters or Hingis, was hyped more by the American tennis press than Capriati.

Anna is still just 21. Who is to say she won't eventually get there, or that she may not surpass Stubbs in doubles?


Not only the wta and the media but her coaches and trainers as well as retired players. The potential and talent could be seen I mean it wasn't difficult to do. also she was in the freaking top ten! Do you know how many players languish in this sport? The players struggling in the hundreds? Anna had top ten talent and proved it but something went horribly wrong. Whether it was all the attention or her own head something happened to the girl and I'm not talking about just the injuries. None of her injuries were career threatening.

Also while its true she didn't hype herself, somewhat. I remember comments four to five years ago about her losing to venus only because she made all the mistakes so she really didn't lose. Ok. As well as numerous other comments that have since gone away.

The fact of the matter is if anna looked like renaee people would have been talking about her back then because she had the talent and game but the noise would have long since quieted down and gone away. So now we are bombarded with article after article about anna and quite frankly until she starts making waves and living up to her potential I could care less.

If she one a tournament most if not all of the negative stuff written about her would go away in a flash.

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 05:37 PM
Cybelle:

But aren't looks the real issue here? If Anna looked like Rennea, nobody would care that she hadn't won a tournament, as nobody cares Rennea hasn't.

Sorry to say that the way the world works is this. The really pretty girls get a lot more attention than those who are not pretty.

Anna Kournikova did not invent that system. It was in place about 8,000 years before she was born.

But that system seems to make women mad and so they vent on people like Kournikova.

Although you haven't, people even slagg her personal life, which I fail to understand, as I haven't seen her do too much wrong, except date high profile men. And that too, seems to me to be just causing jealousy.

One final point. I am sure Anna said what you mentioned about losing because she made all the mistakes. But how many times have Venus or Serena Williams ever said they lost because the other player out played them?

Most players seem to think that if they only played their own game, they would win. Anna certainly didn't invent that attitude. And no two players have been more dismissive of the other people across the net from them than the Williams sisters. It has only been in the last couple of years that both have started being more realistic and admitting that the outcome of the match is the result of what both people on court do and don't know. Would Serena have her AO if Kim had played her game in the third set when she was up 5-1? Kim had two chances to serve it out and she choked both times. Serena raised her level, but Kim's level dropped as the prize got closer and closer.

Nobody has it all in his or her own hands. But most players like to think that they do.

Volcana
Apr 10th, 2003, 05:40 PM
"Work SMARTER, not harder"

vogus
Apr 10th, 2003, 06:18 PM
Tony's assertion that "it's not Anna who did the hyping" is woefully naive at best.

Anna (along with her Mom) was DEFINITELY the main source of her own hype - at the beginning, in '95-'97 she had a maniacal drive to seek attention. Her management people did a lot of the grunt work, but to say that just because Anna didn't do her own press releases, she wasn't responsible for the hype, is laughable. More than anyone else, Anna made HERSELF into a star. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with giving her credit for that.

Although i wouldn't describe Anna's desire to hype herself as "maniacal" any longer (it isn't necessary now since she's already a star), she is still happy to fan the flames of her own fame. She's got a whole staff of people who get paid to do just that.

Hendouble
Apr 10th, 2003, 06:31 PM
Kournikova by the nature of her game has always been an up-and-down, hot-and-cold sort of player; unfortunately, it seems that the cycles go in years, since most of her playing form vanished around two years ago. She says she's changed things and she's working on her game, but whenever you see her in a match and of course watch her serve - oh, that serve - then you wonder whether she's made any change at all. She is stuck in this rut of media hype and attention that prevents her from moving onwards and changing the situation.

Obviously, her great skill and success as a doubles player shows that she needs someone else there to help share the pressure with, but at the same time her doubles matches are at risk of becoming a celebrity circus - she gets all the newspaper coverage, she turns up at matches and crowds boo her doubles opponents, people rejoice when she wins and are distraught at her losses. It's all too phoney, somehow, there is no real substance of competition or the enjoyment of playing well....

Anyway, those are just my opinions.

Best wishes,
P. Schnyder.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 10th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Ah, and here we have another example of fans of a particular player who can't deal with (deserved) critism of their favourite without throwing out the words "hate" and "jealous". I also enjoyed the bit about how NONE of Anna's problems are her fault. LOL... right, mine too ;)

auntie janie
Apr 10th, 2003, 06:44 PM
Ah, and here we have another example of fans of a particular player who can't deal with (deserved) critism of their favourite without throwing out the words "hate" and "jealous". I also enjoyed the bit about how NONE of Anna's problems are her fault. LOL... right, mine too ;)

LOL! Mine, too. :angel:

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 08:35 PM
Boy, this is fun!!!

Ok, let me respond to these complaints.

I don't exactly know what Anna and her mom did in '95 to '97 to satisfy her "maniacal" desire for "attention." I would love to hear specific examples.

I do know this. About 90 percent of news releases sent out about tennis players are sent out by a tournament in which they are going to play. Most of the photo ops they take part in, be it a trip to the zoo or a trip to the nearest children's hospital, are arranged either by the tournament or the WTA. That's so the tournament will get some free publicity, the kind you don't have to open your check book and pay for, as in paid advertising.

And of course, they want Anna on these trips, as opposed to many other players, because Anna is....well, you figure it out. Yes, it's an unfair world. The pretty girl gets asked to dance, the girl who isn't so pretty sometimes winds up being a wall flower. Its a shame, but Anna didn't create the system.

Tennis is no exception. I have attended tournaments where a Kournikova doubles match has a lot more people sitting in the stands than a singles match being played by a much higher ranked player. Again, why blame Anna for a choice made by the fans themselves?

Now, Anna has a management company, I think Octagon, as do almost all of the top players. Those companies secure endorsement deals for them, but that's the same for all these players, be it Anna or Venus or Kim or anyone else. But that is off court stuff and in my mind, if you can get a deal and its not with a product that kills people (as Virginia Slims does) than go for it, if you want.

Now, consider the following passage from an Anna critics:

"Obviously, her great skill and success as a doubles player shows that she needs someone else there to help share the pressure with, but at the same time her doubles matches are at risk of becoming a celebrity circus - she gets all the newspaper coverage, she turns up at matches and crowds boo her doubles opponents, people rejoice when she wins and are distraught at her losses. It's all too phoney, somehow, there is no real substance of competition or the enjoyment of playing well...."

I don't precisely know what a "celebrity circus" is. Anna is a celebrity, but so are the Williams sisters. So what? Fans cheer for her when she wins a doubles match and are "distraught" when she loses And that makes her fans different from the fans of other players...how?

Most fans want their fav to win and are unhappy when she loses. I thought that's how being a fan worked.

"there is no real sustance of competition or the enjoyment of playng well..."

What the heck does this mean? Are Anna's victories of less substance than any other player's? There's no enjoyment? Did you ever see any of the matches she played partnering with Hingis. Most of the time, they seemed to be having so much fun, you would have thought they were playing in the park on a Saturday morning. They high fived and hugged constantly. Where do you think all those photos come from?

And, incidenlty, that's one of the reasons they were one of the few doubles team that could fill a grandstand. They always seemed to be having a good time out there. At San Diego about one or two years ago, they filled the center court stand on a Tuesday night.

You should have stopped by Staples Center last November. I watched Capriati play Meeleva before a half empty house on a Saturday afternoon and that was a singles match.

Lastly, for the thousandth time. What are all these "problems" Anna is facing? She is not winning many singles tennis matches right now. Other than that, I don't see too many "problems" in her life. I read recently she was considering buying a castle in Scotland. I wish I had that kind of problem. She, I guess, is dating a famous singer. I imagine many of that singer's female fans wish they had that problem.

So, what is happening in her life that is so bad?????

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 10th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Lastly, for the thousandth time. What are all these "problems" Anna is facing? She is not winning many singles tennis matches right now. Other than that, I don't see too many "problems" in her life. I read recently she was considering buying a castle in Scotland. I wish I had that kind of problem. She, I guess, is dating a famous singer. I imagine many of that singer's female fans wish they had that problem.

So, what is happening in her life that is so bad?????

I AGREE...yeah shes having some serious tenis problems :sad:, but personal problems??? LOL...people in here act like they know her personally...:rolleyes:

GBFH
Apr 10th, 2003, 09:47 PM
Ah, and here we have another example of fans of a particular player who can't deal with (deserved) critism of their favourite without throwing out the words "hate" and "jealous". I also enjoyed the bit about how NONE of Anna's problems are her fault. LOL... right, mine too ;)

Are you saying that some of the zealous dislike of Anna isn't motivated by hatred and jealousy? You're kidding, I hope. What about people here who don't like Hewitt or the WS?

I totally agree that people who think Anna is entirely without fault are deluded...but what do you suggest she do? She'll get sued into oblivion if she breaks with her management and the sponsors.

Hendouble
Apr 10th, 2003, 10:19 PM
Woh, you're being a little harsh on me there, fella. And I'm not an Anna critic - it's just that you're jealous of me and hate my success, that's what's motivating you, right?

What I was trying to convey, a little unsuccessfully it would seem, is that whenever she plays it becomes a media event rather than a tennis match. I think a lot of the time, certainly on the singles court, she is too aware of all the pressure and expectation, the desperation of fans who appreciate her for her looks but want to see her tennis live up to the same standard, and it most certainly affects her. Her last two Slam matches were the most dismal performances I've ever witnessed from someone who aspires to be Top 100, let alone Top 20 or 10.

And besides, the signature might have given you a hint that this isn't an entirely unbiased, professional opinion, mightn't it?

Zenith
Apr 10th, 2003, 11:56 PM
I voted for the first option. This is not because I am jealous of or hate her. It is because she is not doing her talent any justice. She gets wildcard entries at will because tornament directors want her to fill the arenas because of her looks. And that is the only reason why she gets so much attention. Majoli won the FO and most people don't even know that. Why? She is not as marketable as Kournikova. She is not as pretty.

TonyP
Apr 10th, 2003, 11:56 PM
dahhhhhhh!

Okay, I get the signature. I paid no attention to it before.

But as long as I've got your attention, if you could explain that for me, I'd be in your debt forever. I like Patty, but think she is one of the sports' major under achievers.

But what the heck as that business with Kournikova all about anyway?

And why, if you hate her, would you consistantly tank matches against her. Usually, if you hate someone, you want to mop the floor up with them, not lose to them!

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 11th, 2003, 12:54 AM
Cybelle:

But aren't looks the real issue here? If Anna looked like Rennea, nobody would care that she hadn't won a tournament, as nobody cares Rennea hasn't.

Sorry to say that the way the world works is this. The really pretty girls get a lot more attention than those who are not pretty.

Anna Kournikova did not invent that system. It was in place about 8,000 years before she was born.

But that system seems to make women mad and so they vent on people like Kournikova.

Although you haven't, people even slagg her personal life, which I fail to understand, as I haven't seen her do too much wrong, except date high profile men. And that too, seems to me to be just causing jealousy.

One final point. I am sure Anna said what you mentioned about losing because she made all the mistakes. But how many times have Venus or Serena Williams ever said they lost because the other player out played them?

Most players seem to think that if they only played their own game, they would win. Anna certainly didn't invent that attitude. And no two players have been more dismissive of the other people across the net from them than the Williams sisters. It has only been in the last couple of years that both have started being more realistic and admitting that the outcome of the match is the result of what both people on court do and don't know. Would Serena have her AO if Kim had played her game in the third set when she was up 5-1? Kim had two chances to serve it out and she choked both times. Serena raised her level, but Kim's level dropped as the prize got closer and closer.

Nobody has it all in his or her own hands. But most players like to think that they do.


I see what you're saying but I disagree. Things aren't so simple or black and white as you try to make it. Yes The match is in Serena's hand to win or lose but it is also in Kim's hand to win or lose. Both statements are true. Its who executes and performs that matters.

Also its not just about anna's looks. There are dozens of pretty girls on the tour who I think look better than anna but they don't get the attention, why? Because they don't have her talent! How many girls who are on the tour, all 1000 pluss, will ever reach the top ten? Anna had the talent before the beauty or do you think all these guys were lusting after a ten year old girl? Please. Her talent got her the recognizition and later her "beauty" fueled it. Is it her fault, nope and Its not exactly a fault unless all the attention has detracted from her career which I think it has.

I say go ahead and get those endorsements and deals because she isn't hurting anyone except maybe herself if it affects her tennis.

TonyP
Apr 11th, 2003, 02:31 AM
Cybelle:

Some nice points.

I agree. If you would have told me back even in '99 that Anna would still be titleless today, I would have said you were crazy.

Some of her lack of singles success is due to nerves. Some is probably the result of lots of injuries (look how long it has taken Chanda to get back where many of us always said she belongs, challenging for the top five, at least).

But some of Anna's problems are incomprehensible.

As to what men thought when she was a junior, I don't know. I think I have only seen one film of her and it was such a wide shot, I couldn't tell much. But I know she has always had a "presence" about her. She seems to have always known she was good looking and always kind of conducted herself that way. You can just see by the way she walks, back very straight, head up, like she owns the place.

I have seen tapes of Martina when she was still a junior and she had that special presence, too. She was a star from the moment she walked on the court and fortunately for her, she proved pretty quickly in the pros that she had the goods and that her juniors success was no fluke, despite her small size and build.

Those things will be part of Martina's legacy. It is one reason Hingis made a great deal of money through endorsement deals, while others have not. People at times slagged her for liking the camera too much, but liking the camera has made her a very, very rich girl.

As to Serena having it in her hands, yes, usually it is up to her in some ways, but people who want to beat her have to be opportunistic when the chance presents itself. You can't do what Kim did in Melbourne and hope to overtake her. It's like seeing the short ball and not have the guts to move in and pounce on it. The great ones don't let too many of those chances slip away.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 11th, 2003, 04:33 AM
Are you saying that some of the zealous dislike of Anna isn't motivated by hatred and jealousy? You're kidding, I hope. What about people here who don't like Hewitt or the WS?

I totally agree that people who think Anna is entirely without fault are deluded...but what do you suggest she do? She'll get sued into oblivion if she breaks with her management and the sponsors.
Sure, some of the zealous dislike might be motivated by jealously, but I don't happen to be seeing a great deal of zealous dislike in this thread. One can not discuss the path of Anna's career without some fanatic going ape shit on you for not praising her, despite the fact that she has done absolutely nothing lately to indicate that she deserves any praise (although signing on for a challenger was certainly a step in the right direction).

And I don't suggest that she do anything with her current contracts... I'm not concerned with who does and doesn't endorse Anna. I just think that it's highly amusing for a fan to suggest that everything "wrong" in Anna's life is not her fault - that is damn hilarious. Sure there was a path that she took at 13 or whatever that may or may not have been totally her decision. But one reaches a point where they say "hey, I'm an adult, maybe it's not everybody elses fault anymore".

Especially considering that I highly doubt Anna sits around and blames everybody else for her losing, nor do I suspect that she spends too much time crying over all her "problems", those claims are even more deluded then I thought they sounded at first ;) ;)

GBFH
Apr 11th, 2003, 04:47 AM
Sure, some of the zealous dislike might be motivated by jealously, but I don't happen to be seeing a great deal of zealous dislike in this thread. One can not discuss the path of Anna's career without some fanatic going ape shit on you for not praising her, despite the fact that she has done absolutely nothing lately to indicate that she deserves any praise (although signing on for a challenger was certainly a step in the right direction).

And I don't suggest that she do anything with her current contracts... I'm not concerned with who does and doesn't endorse Anna. I just think that it's highly amusing for a fan to suggest that everything "wrong" in Anna's life is not her fault - that is damn hilarious. Sure there was a path that she took at 13 or whatever that may or may not have been totally her decision. But one reaches a point where they say "hey, I'm an adult, maybe it's not everybody elses fault anymore".

Especially considering that I highly doubt Anna sits around and blames everybody else for her losing, nor do I suspect that she spends too much time crying over all her "problems", those claims are even more deluded then I thought they sounded at first ;) ;)

It's not unexpected that some of Annas' fans are fanatically defensive, considering the popular opinion of her in the press and on this board. But it's certainly not called for to shower insults on someone for not loving Anna.

I don't have much sympathy for Anna where her contracts are concerned. She could have stayed in Russia and still gotten into pro tennis...but she (and her family) chased the green to the US. She could have said "enough" years ago...however, she has mentioned in several interviews that her off-court life doesn't bother her tennis, and I guess we have to take her word for it. Anna has a great life, she's got nothing to cry over...except her unfulfilled promise. But only Anna can answer that.

TonyP
Apr 11th, 2003, 05:07 AM
"I just think that it's highly amusing for a fan to suggest that everything "wrong" in Anna's life is not her fault - that is damn hilarious."


And yet, except for losing tennis matches, no one can seem to pinpoint what exactly is "wrong" with Anna's life.

Anna problably thinks there is more to life than tennis. I do.

GBFH
Apr 11th, 2003, 05:09 AM
"I just think that it's highly amusing for a fan to suggest that everything "wrong" in Anna's life is not her fault - that is damn hilarious."


And yet, except for losing tennis matches, no one can seem to pinpoint what exactly is "wrong" with Anna's life.

Anna problably thinks there is more to life than tennis. I do.

If that's true, then why does she continue to play? If I had such desultory results, I'd quit. But that's why I'm not a pro athlete...and that's why I admire Anna. She's gonna keep trying, no matter what people say :)

vogus
Apr 11th, 2003, 06:22 AM
Tony now you're really going "old school" on us, bringing up the Anna vs Patty rivalry. But as a longtime Patty fan I have to take the bait. ;)

When they were both in the Top 10, four or more years ago, this had the makings of a compelling rivalry, but somehow they both kind of lost their way as tennis players, and I'd argue also as people, since they've both said in past interviews that "I love tennis and it's my life." (paraphrased)

In '98 and '99, Patty had the image of being the anti-Anna - a pretty girl and talented tennis player who was down-to-Earth, normal, and unaffected by her success and status.

But in hindsight I would say that it is the similarities of Patty and Anna that stand out rather than the differences. Like Anna, Patty has actually got plenty of in-born cockiness and attitude, and it's definitely not lost on her that she's a great-looking girl with lots of male fans. Both Anna and Patty have struggled for the last few years when playing less heralded but more determined opponents. And as far as "normal" goes, well... ;)

I think that early on there was jealously on both sides of their rivalry, but I suspect that time, as well as their fall from the top of the tennis ranks, has diluted such jealousies considerably. I wouldn't be surprised to see them as doubles partners one of these days.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 11th, 2003, 11:38 AM
"I just think that it's highly amusing for a fan to suggest that everything "wrong" in Anna's life is not her fault - that is damn hilarious."


And yet, except for losing tennis matches, no one can seem to pinpoint what exactly is "wrong" with Anna's life.

Anna problably thinks there is more to life than tennis. I do.
Forgive me for not knowing Anna personally and knowing what people are talking about when they say that something is "wrong" with her. I was merely echoing what was said by others, and laughing at their attempt to explain her apaprently "problems". Apparently I didn't use enough quotations to make that clear... I'll be sure to spell it right out for you next time ;)

Crazy Canuck
Apr 11th, 2003, 11:40 AM
If that's true, then why does she continue to play? If I had such desultory results, I'd quit. But that's why I'm not a pro athlete...and that's why I admire Anna. She's gonna keep trying, no matter what people say :)
Indeed. And for that she deserves a world of credit. She could of given up years ago, but doesn't. Yet people still make comments about how she apparently doesn't care about tennis, without being able to formulate a reasonable explanation for why she would bother to continue otherwise ;)