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View Full Version : American Flags In Iraq


Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 02:59 PM
First of all before I make my point....please don't turn this into an agressive thread. As I have posted before....my brother is over there as part of the Australian Navy....obviously I'm not happy about that...however perhaps for selfish reasons.

Anyhow my point...

I was wondering why twice now I have seen American flags being raised....one was hoisted upon a flag pole...another with a soldier waving the flag in the center of Bagdad (Edited) (today). If this is an allied attack...I have seen no other soldiers raising their flags.

It's not a US hate thing...if I saw an Australian raise our flag I would be equally annoyed. There is no pride in war.

This war is about reforming a nation that has been run by a nasty dictator (no-one disagrees with that), I would have thought raising a flag is the same as throwing a flag on the moon...or claiming free land on horseback in history.

This is my own oppinion...which I have every right to....it's what we are nulling Saddams scheme for isn't it? To allow people a voice? (for all those that are going to abuse me...thought I would get in first....if you post something subjective I will try and reply)

rand
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:07 PM
kabul? :confused:

Mateo Mathieu
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:08 PM
Kabul in Afghanistan

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:11 PM
Opps....Bagdad...my bad sorry.....they were talking about Kabul on this show as well.

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:12 PM
Well now I feel like a dick-head....but at least the first 2 posts held no agsressiveness

griffin
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:12 PM
We are a flag-happy bunch, aren't we?

I imagine part of it is the symbolism of "we're HERE - we're in control, not Hussein." Pretty common in war, I think.

I also think that as much as various anti-invasion nations/factions have accused the US of calling the shots and dragging it's allies along with it, most Americans would agree and see it as "ours" and they are proud of it. I don't think those soldiers meant it as an insult, but I get the impression most of them view this as an American campaign.

Mateo Mathieu
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:14 PM
It's Baghdad

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:16 PM
We are a flag-happy bunch, aren't we?

I imagine part of it is the symbolism of "we're HERE - we're in control, not Hussein." Pretty common in war, I think.

I also think that as much as various anti-invasion nations/factions have accused the US of calling the shots and dragging it's allies along with it, most Americans would agree and see it as "ours" and they are proud of it. I don't think those soldiers meant it as an insult, but I get the impression most of them view this as an American campaign.

Yes I agree America is a very proud nation, nothing wrong with that at all. It may have happened many times in other wars too, but this has just been a media circus by every country...not just America.

griffin
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:19 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you mean...

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:19 PM
It's Baghdad

Shit do I have to edit it again? people know what I mean (now I changed it)

Mateo Mathieu
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:21 PM
Shit do I have to edit it again? people know what I mean (now I changed it)
You don't have to do it! :p I just want to let you know it's right spell :p

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:22 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you mean...

In what way griffin?

I guess my biggest concern is about retaliation by extremists (that live in every country) seeing what Media avenues wan't their audience to see. IMO

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:23 PM
You don't have to do it! :p I just want to let you know it's right spell :p

ty...I'm an Artist....fail in spelling (and obviously National Capitals)

griffin
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:29 PM
I guess my biggest concern is about retaliation by extremists (that live in every country) seeing what Media avenues wan't their audience to see. IMO

Lol, I'm not arguing with you! I agree raising our flag in these instances is very problematic - no matter what our soldier's intentions are, and whther or not you think their pride is justified. I was just trying to explain why I think our troops are raising our flag.

*JR*
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:34 PM
We are a flag-happy bunch, aren't we?

I imagine part of it is the symbolism of "we're HERE - we're in control, not Hussein." Pretty common in war, I think.

I also think that as much as various anti-invasion nations/factions have accused the US of calling the shots and dragging it's allies along with it, most Americans would agree and see it as "ours" and they are proud of it. I don't think those soldiers meant it as an insult, but I get the impression most of them view this as an American campaign.
Griff, it proves that dubya is a dyckhead, as if we didn't know that already. See slick Tony, who IS smart, made the point repeatedly (to duck the "UN question") about how the Iraqi people would be in charge. All "we" were doing was expelling Saddam and his "junta" from power. A flag denotes sovereignty, right? So perhaps Iraq's newfound "independence" will be as a client state, ala Q8. (Boi, yuo never answered: Where the fuck is the promised democracy there 12 years after it's "liberation"? :confused: Troof, now)!

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:36 PM
Lol, I'm not arguing with you! I agree raising our flag in these instances is very problematic - no matter what our soldier's intentions are, and whther or not you think their pride is justified. I was just trying to explain why I think our troops are raising our flag.

Not disagreeing with you either Griffin.... :wavey:

griffin
Apr 9th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Oh please, rd878, US soldiers raising the Stars and Stripes doesn't say a friggin' thing about Bush - they'd do the exact same thing regardless of who was in the White House or why we were there.

It could be a UN peacekeeping mission, they'd probably do the same thing.

Osssge
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:17 PM
"Veni, vidi, vici" i.e. "I came I saw I conqueered"

This is what they're trying to tell us.

Tratree
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:23 PM
Funny, the Iraqis dancing in the streets don't seem to mind it and they sure aren't acting like conquered or occupied people, they are acting like liberated people. I think the flag waving by the troops is just a feeling like Griffin said that "We did it...we're here." I do not think, however, they should raise a flag up on a flagpole and I have only heard of the one occasion, which was quickly rectified after some greenhorn 18-year-old testosterone flooded GI made the mistake. Anyone see the giant Saddam statue pulled down? The people are jumping on it, hitting it with their shoes and dragging his head through the streets.

*JR*
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:33 PM
OK, Griff, forget WHO was elected (I mean selected) President. Forget which country in this "Coalition of the Few". ANY country's flag raised after a war that was basically "declared" bilaterally (though the Ozzies and Poles then sent troops) sends the wrong message. Even if it DID have a UN go-ahead, their pale blue flag would IMO be the only one that could have been raised without doing so. It will make the Iraqi "transitional gov't" look like a puppet regime. And power will fragment, just as it has in Afghanistan, so the mention of Kabul in this thread fits very well.

griffin
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:38 PM
American soldiers raising American flags does not prove Bush an idiot (Bush opening his mouth - this is another story).

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's something we Americans are prone to do, regardless of who the President is.

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:45 PM
Funny, the Iraqis dancing in the streets don't seem to mind it and they sure aren't acting like conquered or occupied people, they are acting like liberated people. I think the flag waving by the troops is just a feeling like Griffin said that "We did it...we're here." I do not think, however, they should raise a flag up on a flagpole and I have only heard of the one occasion, which was quickly rectified after some greenhorn 18-year-old testosterone flooded GI made the mistake. Anyone see the giant Saddam statue pulled down? The people are jumping on it, hitting it with their shoes and dragging his head through the streets.

:wavey: Yes that's a terrific point too....I only started this thread to begin a debate instead of an argument.

My point is however (sorry not very good at using response button)....is that this was an allied move to bring down the saddam regime (we don't get your'e news service)....yes I only saw the one flag pole as I posted and today a soldier waving one when they hit the center of Baghdad.

I have concerns because the "We" thing is not considered to include the "Allies" (Our PM is a weasel btw...no-one better to replace him though). We all know there will be backlash somehow..somewhere..was Sept 11 for the USA....Australia are still trying to get over the Bali thing.

As an Australian...we fight for peace (East-Timor rings a bell).

There is no point saying we will reform this country unless we somehow abolish this 50 Billion dollars in International debt that Iraq has. I think Jordan are owed the most....what will the backlash of that be? To reform a country....you take the debt on...who will pay that? It needs to be addressed.

ys
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Raising the flags is not smart.. They are playing into hands of those who is going to fight them.

Few days ago I've read on site that seems to be of quite extremist Islamic line, that that was the numerous Islamic fighters who moved to Baghdad before the war in numbers said they would not start fighting as long as Saddam is in power, because they want to fight Americans , but they do not want to defend Saddam. So, the site says, it could be an obvious plan - let Americans take out Saddam first. and only then, when Saddam is gone, start real resistance, which will be no longer associated with regime..

Kirt12255
Apr 9th, 2003, 04:51 PM
Raising the flags is not smart.. They are playing into hands of those who is going to fight them.

Few days ago I've read on site that seems to be of quite extremist Islamic line, that that was the numerous Islamic fighters who moved to Baghdad before the war in numbers said they would not start fighting as long as Saddam is in power, because they want to fight Americans , but they do not want to defend Saddam. So, the site says, it could be an obvious plan - let Americans take out Saddam first. and only then, when Saddam is gone, start real resistance, which will be no longer associated with regime..

I hope that doesn't happen :sad:

*JR*
Apr 9th, 2003, 09:30 PM
American soldiers raising American flags does not prove Bush an idiot (Bush opening his mouth - this is another story).

LMAO, Griff! :D :D :worship: