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View Full Version : Has there ever been an African player in the top 200 (Caucasian doesn't count)


rhz
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:18 AM
anybody know??

Sorry to offend you people, but I didn't mean to star a racist thread, its just i already know that Coetzer, Cara Black, Kruger, De Swaardt etc are in the top 200, and they all caucasian. that's why i put caucasian do not count. Sorry about that. Thank you

per4ever
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:36 AM
hmm what about Dally Randriantefy? She's number 94 now

rhz
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:39 AM
hmm what about Dally Randriantefy? She's number 94 now


you're right. and i found one more, Selima Sfar from Tunisia. i don't know what # she is now, but surely in top 200

Jordan.
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:41 AM
Selima is currently #159.

per4ever
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:41 AM
Sfar is #159

V.Melb
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:47 AM
Randriantefy - yes.

Sfar is Caucasian. - French Origin i assume.

rhz
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:50 AM
Randriantefy - yes.

Sfar is Caucasian. - French Origin i assume.


I don't think Sfar is Caucasian, she definately has some kind of Arab blood in her, as she is Tunisian, but she does speak French

rhz
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:55 AM
http://www.wtatour.com/assets/personnel_image/mug194.jpg


This is her pic, you think she's Caucasian?

per4ever
Mar 25th, 2003, 08:02 AM
Tunesian people are not so dark...but may be she has caucasian blood in her vains ;)

Jakeev
Mar 25th, 2003, 08:27 AM
rhz if you meant African women of color why didn't you just say so? :mad:

Bahia Mautassante has been in the top 200 hasn't she?

TheBoiledEgg
Mar 25th, 2003, 09:18 AM
Selima Sfar is of Arab origin.
as is Bahia Mouhtassine

Some Arabs are lighter than others but they're still Arabs.

V.Melb
Mar 25th, 2003, 09:26 AM
That picture is very deceiving. :rolleyes:
I have seen Selima in the flesh. Her hair was died blonde and her skin was not so tanned. She would have passed for a full-blooded european any day.
Obviously she has arab bloody in her.

korben
Mar 25th, 2003, 09:31 AM
Amanda Coetzer and Cara Black but they don´t count.

korben
Mar 25th, 2003, 09:39 AM
Bahia Mouhtassine - Morocco
Current rank 173.

SuperG
Mar 25th, 2003, 11:01 AM
that topic is so racist, i cant believe that nobody complained!

i am from namibia, i am proud about my country, proud about my continent and i am white!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how can you start a topic about only black players from africa count?

what if i start a topic, who is the best american player - blacks dont count!?!?!?!

that would be exactly the same!!!!!!!!!!

per4ever
Mar 25th, 2003, 11:14 AM
SuperG, this is not a racist topic..it's like wondering why black athletes dominate short distance in athletics :)

Now we are wondering if there are any good native africans too :)

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 25th, 2003, 12:54 PM
so if your parents are black and your born in china are you therefore chinese? are you asian? How exactly does that work?

starr
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Selima Sfar is a African Arab. She and her family are not european.

But you know... don't count her if it offends you to do so.

Josh
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:13 PM
Europeans, Arabs, Indians,... Anthropology considers them all Caucasians even though there's a difference in skin tone.

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:17 PM
Europeans, Arabs, Indians,... Anthropology considers them all Caucasians even though there's a difference in skin tone.
why are they all considered caucasian? what is the similarity that defines them all as caucasian? also what about my previous question. :D

Josh
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:26 PM
why are they all considered caucasian? what is the similarity that defines them all as caucasian? also what about my previous question. :D

Well I think it's not about the coulour of their skin but similar physical features, like body build and hair texture and stuff.

As to your previous question : that would be a black Chinese I guess. ;)

irma
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:29 PM
so in fact the people from the arabian african countries are less african then the people from the countries below even when their families have lived their all history long too? lol :confused:

SuperG
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:50 PM
Selima Sfar is a African Arab. She and her family are not european.

But you know... don't count her if it offends you to do so.

of course i count her as african!!!!!! as well as i count Amanda Coetzer, and myself as African, as all three of us were born in Africa, have African parents, and African passports?

Shall i count myself as european or american just because i am white?

Racism is: If you say to a black person: Go back to Africa where you belong to :fiery:

Racism is also: If you say someone is not African, as he/she is not black enough :fiery:

I am a proud African, and i am white!

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 25th, 2003, 01:51 PM
but the people from west africa are really different from the people of east africa. Body types are different musculature is different. I think the whole race crap is just that crap.

doloresc
Mar 25th, 2003, 02:15 PM
sfar and randriantefy were the only two i could think of.

so if your parents are black and your born in china are you therefore chinese? are you asian? How exactly does that work?

race: black
nationality: chinese

it's always a bit strange when a citizen doesn't look like the majority of their compatriots. my friend connie is cambodian born but raised in paris (she moved to france when she was four years old) and i refer to her as my french friend but, as it often does, when i say my "french friend", people are usually expecting her to look like dechy or mauresmo.

i'm curious. is hicham arazi considered caucasian?

Hulet
Mar 25th, 2003, 02:24 PM
so if your parents are black and your born in china are you therefore chinese? are you asian? How exactly does that work?
I think Chinese are a multi-ethnic society; it's a huge country made up of a variety of people. There are for examples the mongolians and the tibetans which have facial features that rarely resembel the stereotypical Chinese features. So, I think to answer your question a black person born in china and grown up as a chinese can and should view herself as chinese (whether she is accepted as such is another story). I don't think it defers from a scenario where a person who is born in USA but whose parents are europeans.
but the people from west africa are really different from the people of east africa. Body types are different musculature is different. I think the whole race crap is just that crap.
I agree.
of course i count her as african!!!!!! as well as i count Amanda Coetzer, and myself as African, as all three of us were born in Africa, have African parents, and African passports?

Shall i count myself as european or american just because i am white?

Racism is: If you say to a black person: Go back to Africa where you belong to

Racism is also: If you say someone is not African, as he/she is not black enough

I am a proud African, and i am white!
I completely agree.

Hulet
Mar 25th, 2003, 02:26 PM
Just to add to the above post, a good site about chinese ethnic make up with good pictures:
http://www.index-china.com/minority/minority-english.htm

AjdeNate!
Mar 25th, 2003, 02:52 PM
well, i think this entire thread just showed that Race is a social construct and its a whole lot of BS.....
And you're right! :wavey:

Leena
Mar 25th, 2003, 03:00 PM
Selima Sfar... Lena's bitch girl in challengers... ah, the memories. :)

Bahia Mouhtassine from Morocco is Arab, too... also if you think Mary Pierce is fat, get a load of Bahia...

what if i start a topic, who is the best american player - blacks dont count!?!?!?!

No offense... but we've already had a topic where only black players in the Top 10 were mentioned. Now that this thread isn't so positive on black Africans, it's racist? I disagree.

brunof
Mar 25th, 2003, 03:37 PM
Didn't Selima work with Nathalie for some time? Is she still?

Cariaoke
Mar 25th, 2003, 03:45 PM
well, i think this entire thread just showed that Race is a social construct and its a whole lot of BS.....


btw- i don't think the topic is racist- someone is simply asking a question about non-white Africans..come on!
I wrote an A+ paper on why race is a social construct in my race and ethnic relations class... :o :D I could restate my points here but this thread is already off topic... pm me if you'd like to see some of it.

Anyway... I just don't get how this thread is racist. ??? It's actually a question I've been wondering for awhile because the only Africans I've seen in the top 200 have either been of Arab or European ancestry. Specifically asking for non-Caucasian responses is not discounting the achievements of said people but avoiding the obvious posts of Coetzer, Black, etc. even if some people were being smart assed with those responses. And they say 'minorities' are sensitive... pssshhhhfff..

Cariaoke
Mar 25th, 2003, 04:33 PM
ahh- Cariosity, i wanted to give you some points, but i have to spread the rep. as they say ;) :wavey:

I don't want to go off topic anymore either but somehow I don't think there is much more to be said about the African players, since they aren't many, so---what class did you do it for?
:D awww thanks!

it was for my race and ethnic relations class. here's my opening statement (to stop the pm's, :p ):
Race is not an ingrained idea; it is learned. Often in society, people look at skin color to quickly put others in a category without having to take the time to know them on an individual level. Knowing the attributes of a certain group allows people to make quick judgments and armed with their assumptions, they know how to approach those persons. This categorization maintains social order. Race has no biological basis; physical attributes are given social meaning, which determines a hierarchy that justifies racism.

you can take justifies as 'allowing'.
It goes on and on and on mentioning the notion of progress (those being closer to God as being advanced and those closer to nature being backwards), past and modern racism in America and several other points.
:wavey:

Mercury Rising
Mar 25th, 2003, 05:03 PM
And they say 'minorities' are sensitive... pssshhhhfff..
And who or what are the 'minorities' here? :confused:
You think white people aren't minorities in Africa?

rhz
Mar 25th, 2003, 05:29 PM
I didn't mean to star a racist thread, its just i already know that Coetzer, Cara Black, Kruger, De Swaardt etc are in the top 200, and they all caucasian. that's why i put caucasian do not count. Sorry about that. Thank you

Cariaoke
Mar 25th, 2003, 05:33 PM
And who or what are the 'minorities' here? :confused:
You think white people aren't minorities in Africa?
no just putting my north american spin on what other north american posters say all the time.

propi
Mar 25th, 2003, 06:02 PM
Remember your science lectures, genes are only a part of the whole thing if there were better infrastructures in Africa and other parts of the world we'd see much African players hitting the ball in the top 200

Conchita forever
Mar 25th, 2003, 06:59 PM
I think that this topic is quite interesting because many tennis fans have at least once thinked about non-white players from Africa in the top. I mean, it's surprising to see that the top African players are white. But maybe not that surprising. Whites, in general, have a lot more resources than blacks or arabs. That's the shame. It's wonderful to have great African players such as Amanda Coetzer and Cara Black, but it would be also nice to see blacks and arabs on top because that would mean that they have equal opportunities.

Come on why do you have to always bring the race up? Are we 5-year-old children still? Of course there are some racists in this board but can't you really control yourselves and think a bit more? I get tired of that race thing. We all know about race problems in the tour, but stop jumping over your mates everytime you see the tiniest trace of racism, even when it wasn't intended at all. I didn't think this was a racist thread because it was something I already questioned myself before.

what if i start a topic, who is the best american player - blacks dont count!?!?!?!

Well, to be objective, even whites wouldn't count. Only indians... :rolleyes:

Asmus
Mar 25th, 2003, 07:23 PM
This thread is NOT racist. The proper wording, however, of the question should be:

Have there ever been any successful indigenous (or aboriginal) African tennis players?

Ryan
Mar 25th, 2003, 08:02 PM
that topic is so racist, i cant believe that nobody complained!

i am from namibia, i am proud about my country, proud about my continent and i am white!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how can you start a topic about only black players from africa count?

what if i start a topic, who is the best american player - blacks dont count!?!?!?!

that would be exactly the same!!!!!!!!!!


Moron :rolleyes: This thread did not have a racist intent. Rhz merely asked if there were any black African players in the top 200. Deal with it.

fammmmedspin
Mar 25th, 2003, 08:30 PM
I would assume the lack of black (whatever that is) African players reflects lack of resources or interest. May be because football or Athletics are more popular and attract the Mutola's of those states. If you can produce Sprinters and middle distance runners tennis players should surely be possible?

Caucasian always struck me as a silly term as few people in the USA or Europe had ever been there. Interestingly though, if you keep up with human evolution articles in Scientific American or on TV the current "in" theory suggests (horribly simplified) that when the last globetrotting group of humankind left Africa the leavers stopped off for a considerable while around Kazakstan before moving West to Europe and east to Asia . In so far as everyone isn't of mixed race anyway, Caucasian ancestors do all come from Irodaland. I don't think you can have aboriginal Africans - the aboriginals (as in Australia) were an earlier group of departees - the Africans stayed behind and diversified more - presumably as there were more of them to exchange their genes in the approved fashion.

TheBoiledEgg
Mar 30th, 2003, 04:49 PM
http://www.frmt.ma/wta2003/photobig/wta030330-04b.jpg
Habiba Ifrakh (MAR)

Tennis Fool
Mar 30th, 2003, 06:29 PM
Europeans, Arabs, Indians,... Anthropology considers them all Caucasians even though there's a difference in skin tone.

This is not true. This thinking is based on "old science" where people were grouped into Caucasoid, Negroid and Oriental.

Science nows study by ethnicity and the tracing of language lines.

Bright Red
Mar 30th, 2003, 08:02 PM
This is not true. This thinking is based on "old science" where people were grouped into Caucasoid, Negroid and Oriental.

Science nows study by ethnicity and the tracing of language lines.

But that's not the only way they study people. Scientists are also investigating DNA of different groups. Time Magazine ran a story on this. I don't remember the issue, but I do remember that it was the cover story (the issue showed a picture of a woman who supposedly represented what the result would be if all the different groups of the world were to be completely assimilated. The woman was quite beautiful, but she wasn't a real person. She was simply the result of morphing many different photos).

I believe the article stated that current DNA analysis suggests that "Caucasians" are more likely a blend of African and Far East Asian peoples. It also mentioned that Aboriginal Australians are far different genetically than any other group on the planet (although for the longest time they were thought to be "Caucasian".

Ryan
Mar 30th, 2003, 08:10 PM
But that's not the only way they study people. Scientists are also investigating DNA of different groups. Time Magazine ran a story on this. I don't remember the issue, but I do remember that it was the cover story (the issue showed a picture of a woman who supposedly represented what the result would be if all the different groups of the world were to be completely assimilated. The woman was quite beautiful, but she wasn't a real person. She was simply the result of morphing many different photos).

I believe the article stated that current DNA analysis suggests that "Caucasians" are more likely a blend of African and Far East Asian peoples. It also mentioned that Aboriginal Australians are far different genetically than any other group on the planet (although for the longest time they were thought to be "Caucasian".



The last part makes complete sense. Caucasians originated out of the Caucus mountains in the Middle-East, sometime after Mesopotamia if I'm not mistaken. So it would explain why they're a blend of African/Far-east people.