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smygelfh
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:16 AM
Clearing up a few things:

Jonas might be a bit unknown in the world nowadays, but just about everyone the slightest interested in tennis in Sweden knows who he is. He has been for several years (dunno if he is still) the player representative for ATP. That's not something you get appointed to if you're not a fairly pleasant person.

There is no reference to when Jonas answered what he thought about the sisters, though the article itself was published the other day. But given the strict laws regarding things like this in Sweden, we can be sure that Jonas has been asked if it was okay to print it now even if he said it a year or more ago.

I didn't bring this up to make an attack on anyone. I thought it was interesting to see someone who should have some insight, and being known as a pleasant guy, saying such things, wondering if he had a hidden agenda for doing it, or just truthfully answering questions that might be correct, or they might be misguided.

The response to that thread actually made me sad. There seems to be four cathegories of replies.

1. Jonas is an idiot/unknown guy who knows shit about the WTA. He should shut the hell up instead of trying to make a name by accusing the sisters.

He wouldn't be the first, and none of those before have been successful either despite making worse accusations. He's done a lot more with his tennis before than a few minutes of critizism would give him. And I'm sure he knows a lot more than 99% of all fans about just about any more player. True, he might not meet the sisters very often, but he surely meets a lot of persons who do, and the talk goes around. They're the big stars now, you can be sure there's a lot of talk about them going on on the ATP too, for good and bad. True, Jonas' comments might be influenced by jealousy or disliking them for other reasons, but I strongly doubt he's just making it up on the basis of one incident. Just because an article quotes one reason doesn't mean he hasn't got other incidents to tell about. I agree that it was a bit stupid to get goaded into saying it, but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

2. Jonas might be right, but the sisters got their millions and titles so who gives a shit about what other people think about them?

This is just plain sad. I'd never try to make money in a way that meant everyone would dislike me. I would never follow someone who'd take their money and not care about anyone. I don't think the sisters think like that, and I feel sorry for the fans who think they do or should, and encourage such behaviour.

3. Jonas might be right, but Hingis/Kournikova/whoever are divas and asses too!

Meaning what? It's okay to be an ass if others are too? It's just a pathetic attitude.

4. The sisters might have their bad days too, and there's probably a reason beyond pure envy and racism that they're not liked everywhere. We like'em anyway, though we want them to be even better role models.

That's how I believe you should react. That's how I react if I hear bad things about Hingis. She's just a person, doing mistakes. I love her tennis, she seems to be a nice person nowadays, but I don't like it when I hear otherwise and I hope she'll behave better. I think SOME william fans should grow up and do the same. That would make this board a much nicer place. Feel free to question sources and come with arguments why they are wrong (like quoting ball boys saying Venus are nice, or point out the reason, like perhaps being dumped, that the accuser might have to come with an 'unmotivated' attack) instead of acting like children, because it doesn't win you any discussions, and it only makes people like the sisters even less when SOME fans act like clueless children.

I can admit that the biggest reasons that I don't like the sisters particularly is that SOME fans behave like they do. True, most players have such fans, but it appears to me that Williams play in their own division nowadays. It's sad, but true. I'd expect the fans to try to make their players more liked than the other way around. It's really a shame.

BasicTennis
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:19 AM
Jonas is just riding on the popularity of the Williams sisters.;)

He can't be popular on his own merits. Nice try Jonas.:p

smygelfh
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:34 PM
This is what happens:

Serena wins another slam. The clueless swedish papers who cares nada about WTA needs something, and they call the male (since they don't know who Åsa is) tennis players and ask what they think about the sisters, and Jonas happens to think something that makes a good headline.

Jonas did NOT call them and ask them to help him in his personal vendetta against the sisters. Stop pretending that's the scenario.

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:00 AM
what does it matter what the scenario is? He has zero business being negative about two girls who never said anything bad about him or anyone else for that matter. Everyone wants to justify everyone's right to say negative stuff but what about Williamsx2 right to get the same respect they afford other tennis players in the media?

He was an idiot for saying that, period. Whether he's a talented idiot or a talentless idiot matters not to me.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:31 AM
The only thing in that thread that was totally clear to me, was that it showed who actually cared about tennis, and who just watches for Venus and Serena.

Although there is nothing wrong with the latter- there are scores of people who watch just for Anna, or Monica, or Martina, or whoever the heros in their country are, etc - but it does remind me who is, and who isn't worth debating about TENNIS with.

The number of people who scoffed at his tennis career was really astounding.

It spoke a lot for what those people know about tennis on the ATP.

That said, I never once defended his words - if those were indeed his - as I don't agree with "bad mouthing" through the press.

kournikovafan13
Jan 28th, 2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Rocketta
two girls who never said anything bad about him or anyone else for that matter

How the hell do you know that?

Not everything Venus & Serena say will be open to the public

Open your eyes

selesfan
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:02 AM
:rolleyes: Please everything the Williams family says is under a microscope.

Hulet
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:15 AM
FACTS:
-Humans need attention
-One could get attention by slagging off an unpopular player.
-The william sisters are unpopular players for some reason or another.
-Jonas bjorkman is a human.

Now feed that database to prolog or any other A.I. programming language and you get the following result:
"Jonas bjorkman needs attention." :p you can't fight off with the conclusion of a completely rational being.

Volcana
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:25 AM
Seriously, given what he's quoted as saying, either he's wrong, or the ballkids at OZ ( and the US Open, and Wimbledon, where they were very well received also, are wrong.

His words were NOT ambiguous.

"They are very unpleasant toward people."

"They have very little respect for people and they live in a dreamworld"

"They are unpleasant. If the security guards don't open the door correctly, they snub immediately. They are megadivas"

That last one is especially good. Someone who the ballkids vote as the nicest and most respectful, snubs the security guards for not opening the door correctly.

I'm sorry, it makes no sense.

The words are lies. They simply and literally run counter to every interview I've seen them do, every interview I've read, plus what Lindsay Davenport has said, plus BJK.

And no, I really CAN'T see any reason beyond envy or anti-Black bigotry for actively disliking Venus or Serena.

A few years ago, on the old board, there was a wonderful, though short thread called "Venus said it" The challenge was to post any quote in which Venus said any negative thing about another player, or was in any way rude, or abusive.

There was NOT ONE QUOTE POSTED. Not ONE. With all the Williams haters we have around here, no one could come up with even one.

If you're not rude, not abusive, don't say nasty things about other people and children and dogs like you, I'm hard pressed to see what's to dislike.

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:58 AM
OK, all I want to know is how does one open a door "incorrectly". I'm laughing trying to even picture that :-)

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by kournikovafan13
How the hell do you know that?

Not everything Venus & Serena say will be open to the public

Open your eyes

duh we're talking about to the media who the hell knows or cares what people say in private? :rolleyes:

If jonas had kept it private we wouldn't be talking about him either or maybe that was the point. :confused: :confused: ;)

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:35 AM
You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes. Now who is being childish and clueless with an attitude like that? Anyone who basis their opinions of a person based on the actions of someone else is beyond pathetic and ignorant. I as a williams fan have no problem ignoring and dismissing people like that because they have no foundation to stand on. Their point of view is skewed and can't have much to discuss in any objective way.


just my two cents.

nasty nick#2
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes.


But you're an a$$hole, so why not ;)

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:45 AM
You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes. Now who is being childish and clueless with an attitude like that? Anyone who basis their opinions of a person based on the actions of someone else is beyond pathetic and ignorant. I as a williams fan have no problem ignoring and dismissing people like that because they have no foundation to stand on. Their point of view is skewed and can't have much to discuss in any objective way.

Good I didn't say that then.

Let me make it perfectly clear:

NOT PARTICULARLY LIKING is NOT THE SAME as DISLIKING.

And, I didn't say it was the ONLY reason either. Richard's another one. Not liking their game is another one. But that's not the point.

Let's say there are two store selling ice-cream during a hot summer. If you go to one of them, people will line they way, throwing rocks at you and shouting obsceneties at you. If you go to the other one, you won't be assaulted. Which store would you go to?

It had to be some darn good ice-cream for me to go through the rain of rocks, and as I said above, to me, V & S aren't that good. That's my opinion to begin with, and ignorant fans is what really makes me not root for them. It doesn't mean I root against them though as long as they don't play against my faves.

Nimi
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
That last one is especially good. Someone who the ballkids vote as the nicest and most respectful, snubs the security guards for not opening the door correctly.

I'm sorry, it makes no sense.

Actually it does makes sense. Loads of it. ALL PEOPLE, tennis players included, act differently near kids then they do near people their own age, so the ball boys' statements are not important for this argument.

treufreund
Jan 28th, 2003, 09:48 AM
If Jonas has seen the sisters treating people rudely on several occasions then why shouldn't he say so? there is nothing rude about him saying that. It's just that some of you would rather that it not be brought out in public. SOOOO TRANSPARENT! :rolleyes:

Hulet
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
If Jonas has seen the sisters treating people rudely on several occasions then why shouldn't he say so? there is nothing rude about him saying that. It's just that some of you would rather that it not be brought out in public. SOOOO TRANSPARENT! :rolleyes:

1) There is no mention of "several occassion" in his quotes. For all we know, he is basing his attitude about the sisters on few or even one occurence.
2)The question is not about "bringing out in public" but about the sisters ability to respond to his slander. It seems to me very unfair, and even cowardly, to accuse others of negative things when you know that these people don't have a chance to counter your accusations. As weird as it may seem, I would have no objection if he has said these things in the post-match interview of one of those co-ed tournaments b/c I know that one of the journalists would ask the sisters to respond on Jonas' comments; the sisters might deny, accept or offer no comment on the accusations. But, atleast they would have been given a chance to counter his comments. I hope that makes sense.

BrianII
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:34 AM
Smygelf,
False analogy ...better would be if you went two 2 icecreams stroes throwing bricks at both and one store didin't react but the proprieters of the other store threw bricks back which store would you go back to obviously the former.
Every single thread Male player, commentator , male in general attacking wta player ( cash /lindsay, Rios ./.Monica/rest of WTA tour ..enrique won't kiss anna ...sergio dumps hingis etc... all receive this treatment . As for jonas ..hers a guy that been on the tour for ages been around male player personalities ranging from rios to rafter yet ..has nothing to say about them ...gee what was his opnion of say safin insulting Mal wife over the benz any thoughts jonas ,...no he leaves the tour his really familiar with to makes comments about two girls with whom he share s nothing ....you'd have to be really childish, like the fiend. not to know that even if his opinion was 100% correct..in the large community that makes up WTA and ATP tours there be tens of players both male and female like this so why single out the sisters ..Its like the rafter anna incident with the limosine ..you won't hear anything from Rafter only from reporters that saw orknow somebody that saw the incident ...The guy has zero class.

Just a thought in '99 Hingis was investigated at the french for slaping a tour official after her finals loss ..this come from a tennis magazine not a news paper ,,now I'm sure a hingis fan like yourself can dig up the article you guys know every detail about her ( I will try...) when you find it why don't you post the article lets just see what the reation is if any. I'm wiliing to bet that you'd be mildly suprised how your fan base behaves ..better still post it over at hingis .org .

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:50 AM
Brian,

Why don't you read my posts again? You seem to have misread all of them. All your accusations against me are based on reading other things than I'm writing.

You will see that I'm not saying Jonas singled out the sisters for an attack, rather the media singled him out to comment on the sisters. You will see that I also think it was bad of him to say it. And you will not see me saying he's right about the sisters being unpleasant.

You will see that I don't like when Hingis behaves badly, but I hope that she'll improve rather than making accusations against other players.

You will see that I'm saying all players have similar oversensitive fans, not only Williams, but the Williams seem to have more than the others at this moment.

And, the article I posted was fresh. Digging up things that happened years ago to make an attack on someone else in response to your fave being questioned, that's something I did say was pathetic, and that won't change.

About the analogy, the question then would be: Who threw the first rock? The store or I? Why didn't I continue to throw rocks on the one that didn't throw them back, if I so liked to throw rocks on stores?

Gallofa
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:08 AM
smygelfh, of course I know who Jonas is, and I have cheered for him a few times even. But he really had no business saying that.

Why, isn't it funny? when the ATP can no longer look at the WTA and call the girls "fat and unfit" the same week they have a 76 minute GS final, they need to come up with something better. "Yeah, they are super-fit, ultra-athletic, and the tennis is very interesting and draws huge crowds, but you know what? they are unpleasant! tut tut". Oh, please grow up.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think at least Serena can be unpleasant, as I have seen that with my own eyes, but who isn't at some point really... and of course they live in a dreamworld! "hey, Vee, I'm on the net, do you want me to buy that diamond encrusted sofa for your room" "sure girl, but not in hot pink, eh? that's *so* last week" - but what does Jonas know about the real world anyway? maybe he catches a bit of it on the MTV too. These people are superstars and live an unreal kind of life, both girls and boys. All of them.

The only thing clear from this whole business is that Jonas is the one who is certainly unpleasant.

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:23 AM
So, if Jonas says the sisters are unpleasant based on one incident, he's the one who's _clearly_ unpleasant for making totally unbased statements...

...and you say Jonas is clearly unpleasant based on one incident that I reported that you don't know if it's really true or not.

:)

Nevermind, that's not the point.

People do bad things now and then. Everyone does. Even Serena, Venus and Jonas, and you and me. The question is if all the bad things being done are based on false assumptions or not. It's always interesting to discuss views on how people really are behind the cameras, but I wish it could be done without the ugly attacks on other people as the preferable defense agains attacks.

BrianII
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:26 AM
Your article was designed to provoke it achieved its aim ....so why all the hand wringing. Why post a thread such as I suggested ? because it would not be attack since know one seems to knows the result of the investigation ...the point is not whether she did or didn't ,but to see which posters come in with a knee jerk reaction that she did and it was disguting etc and which posters knee jerk reaction is to say that she'd never do a thing like that ....Don't give me the media singled out him for comments about the williamses crap, I went to boarding school, even scool boys know you don't take what you see in the dorms out to the public ..there is no sporting fraternity in the world that doesn't have its unwritten code "what happens in the locker room stays in the locker room" ...that why we have Wertheims whose jobs it is to nose around locker rooms and give us the "word from the locker rooms is" as if we'd need him if we were to get strainght from the source. In over decade on the tour playing with likes of Tarango and any number of male prima donas hes never seen trashed hotel rooms ,insulted waitresses ..hotel workers and all the crap that goes on......he doesn't divulge any of this,but because he is asked about the sisters only. You should read "To kill a Mockingbird" it would help you to understand the cowardly nature of people like Jonas.

Either he's never been asked about other players so he should wonder why a predominantly white media only want to know about 2 black players and put 2 and 2 together
Or he has been asked about other players but accords them a professional respect now matter how bad they are ...

Gallofa
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by smygelfh
...and you say Jonas is clearly unpleasant based on one incident that I reported that you don't know if it's really true or not.

I gave you the respect I give everyone in here. I had no reason to believe you made that up or that you would post untrue information. I see I was unfounded in doing so, and I'll keep that in mind for when and if I read any further posts coming from you.

If you made that up, then, of course, you are the unpleasant one and not Jonas. If you didn't, then yes, Jonas is unpleasant and had no business in saying what he said.

What point are you trying to make anyway? that you could be lying to all of us? that verbally attacking other people is not a sign of being unpleasant? ...I think you have lost even yourself here.

ayanate
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:34 PM
Jonas had no business going there but it seems all professionalism goes out of the window when it comes to these sisters.

I have no doubt that Jonas has seen some unpleasant things from all kinds of tennis players but I have never heard him disparage anyone until now.

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:44 PM
Gallofa,

Sorry if I gave the impression that I fooled you. I did not. I even did provide a link for the article. I merely pointed out the logical flaw in your reasoning, and it wasn't meant as an insult, therefore the :) following the statement...

I mean what right do we have to call Jonas an idiot for doing one thing we find bad, and he has no right to call other people idiots for doing one thing he finds bad? Disagree with him, fine, but tell us why instead of doing exactly the same thing to him.

Gallofa
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:55 PM
smygelfh, ok, sorry, I thought you were saying it was all made up.

I think the difference is obvious between Jonas talking about the sisters and us talking about the sisters and Jonas... For the first thing, I am a nobody and my opinion carries no weight whatsoever. But mainly, thinking that someone is unpleasant and commenting it amongst ourselves is one thing, going to that person and telling them on their face: "I have a problem with your attitude" is fine. Telling the press about it is what I object to. I even agree with the unpleasant bit and the dreamworld bit as I said, but saying that to the press and having it on the news is not nice. That's what I think.

Pureracket
Jan 28th, 2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Gallofa
smygelfh, of course I know who Jonas is, and I have cheered for him a few times even. But he really had no business saying that.

Why, isn't it funny? when the ATP can no longer look at the WTA and call the girls "fat and unfit" the same week they have a 76 minute GS final, they need to come up with something better. "Yeah, they are super-fit, ultra-athletic, and the tennis is very interesting and draws huge crowds, but you know what? they are unpleasant! tut tut". Oh, please grow up.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think at least Serena can be unpleasant, as I have seen that with my own eyes, but who isn't at some point really... and of course they live in a dreamworld! "hey, Vee, I'm on the net, do you want me to buy that diamond encrusted sofa for your room" "sure girl, but not in hot pink, eh? that's *so* last week" - but what does Jonas know about the real world anyway? maybe he catches a bit of it on the MTV too. These people are superstars and live an unreal kind of life, both girls and boys. All of them.

The only thing clear from this whole business is that Jonas is the one who is certainly unpleasant.
Wonderful post!!!!!

VS Fan
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:12 PM
Actually Venus and Serena live in a world of fame and foutune that MOST OTHERS can only DREAM of.

To them this "dreamworld" is REAL for now.

Jealousy plus the desire for newscopy is the culprit.

Jonas fell into the trap as Martina Hingis did so often,

But Martine was certainly in a better position to comment than him. I have noticed that now she is very complimentry of Venus and Serena. She seemed to always get along with Serena fine.
Venus seems more distant and is probably seen as unfriendly by most players, but that is just her way. If you saw Serena and Kim's exchange after what had to be a heart breaking loss for Kim, it would appear that they get along well also.

Note: It is obvious that Serena CAN be very unpleasant on the court, especially when she in behind. In 2000 US Open as she came to net to shake hands with Lindsay, she had a scowl on her face that made you glad she didn't have a gun. They published the picture in the Palm Beach Post the next day. It had to be embarassing. That was the last time Lindsay beat her.

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:56 PM
I can't rightaway remember any attacks Hingis made on the sisters, I seem to recall the bad feelings have been between Martina and Richard mainly. I'm sure there is something though...

Infiniti2001
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:21 PM
Jonas has never met the Williames, yet here he is making this judgement based on the interpretations or allegations of others... What a nice guy indeed!!!:eek:

VS Fan
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:26 PM
I don't have any quotes but in 1999 and 2000, Martina always had a snide comment concerning mainly Venus, but she was prodded into saying things by the media.

Back then her all-court error free game was enough to compete well with Venus and Serena. They would many times self-destruct playing her. V and S have gotten better at this.

I think Martina still has game and could be a challenge in the top five if she can get past her injuries.

As for Richard it is nice that he seems to have learned to just shut-up and let his girls play.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:49 PM
Just out of curiosity - and perhaps I missed something here -

How exactly does anybody on here know how much time Jonas has interacted with the sisters before?

I would think that 5 times a year is still far more than any of you...?

miranda_lou
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:08 PM
I hope Jonas doesn't read this board. If he did he would think he's really hot stuff.:rolleyes: He'd get a big head. The guy makes a nasty remark about the best two tennis players in the world and he gets two threads about it. That's amazing.:p If he knew this he would probably say loads of unflattering things about V&S.:o It wouldn't make him a better player but he would get in the press.:(

harloo
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:35 PM
IMO, Jonas is just responding to the chatter of some of his jealous mixed doubles partners. All you have to do is look at some of who he associates with and you can see that. LOL.

Sorry but the Security guard example was comical. Was he sitting their watching while Venus said, "Open that door you robocop!". LOL. Oh, boy she is sooooooo abusive to the security.
That megadiva!

What gets these players running off at the mouth like diarhea is the fact that the Williams have an non-inclusive air about them. They rarely let anyone in, and that in itself is perceived as arrogant. So in retaliation that's all the players can do is make false claims and accusations.

Yes, I do think Venus and Serena don't pay anyone any mind on the tour. So what's so wrong with that? I think nothing considering the constant nit-picking and criticism from the media, players, and commentators.

When they first came on the tour they were not accepted, the others weren't friendly and so they learned to depend on each other. I can see how that can be percieved as them being megadivas, but I fail to see the point of the rest of Jonas's harsh attack.

Certainly I have never heard Venus or Serena mention Jonas at all. So what is the motivation for his comments? Well they can't be because they attacked him. Why else? And why now?

I think it's because of their position in the WTA now. People say that Jonas is a nice guy, but from his comments I see nothing but someone who is rude and bitter.

miranda_lou
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:28 PM
I agree with your post Harloo but I'll add this: a lot of the players, both men and women, hate V&S because they see these young women who are the best in the world and neither of them seem to work that hard at it. (They do.) Serena is taking acting lessons and actually has appeared on television during the year that she won three Slams. Venus has started a design firm (and she actually has clients) during the same year she was runner-up at three Slams. Plus, they both do commercials and talk shows and pose for magazines, and go to parties and make millions. They do all this and are still #1 and #2 in the world. Anna K. does a lot of that too but she hasn't won a tournament.

It's just jealousy, plain and simple. And I'm saying it even though I'm not particularly a Williams fan. All the harping and carping from the media, the player and the fans is really getting on my nerves. Why don't the people who are bemoaning the fact that Venus and Serena are in EVERY Slam final, write stories about how the other women should get off their lazy butts and improve their games rather than quoting marginal male players who seemingly only want to get their name in the papers.

frenchvee
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:33 PM
smygelfh, why did you post the thread in the first place
quote"I didn't bring this up to make an attack on anyone"
that has to be a joke right
you are saying that you dislike the sisters, and then you bring an article saying the sisters aren't likeable

anyway you did yourself a service, you gain notoriety on the board, gave amunition to people who didn't like the sisters anyway

quoting you, you said "I'd expect the fans to try to make their players more liked than the other way around. It's really a shame."

how your article was suppose to make the board feel better toward the sister.

you had an agenda and you succed, at first i tought you were impartial when you posted the article, then i truly see your true nature.

have a nice day.

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:23 PM
On the contrary.

I gave you a perfect opportunity to prove Jonas wrong, to show me why I shouldn't believe what the paper said, to give me something to tell the other non-that-obsessive-tennis-fans who will read the article that will convince them that the article isn't entirely correct. What shall I tell them now? "I asked the fans what they tought, and I got a lot of very rude comments about that a moron Jonas is and not a single explanation of any kind of why he is wrong."

You take the opportunity to surround V & S with a thick layer of crap, blocking the truth. Smart move. Good for tennis. Not.

smygelfh
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:30 PM
you are saying that you dislike the sisters, and then you bring an article saying the sisters aren't likeable

Curious. Is this a spelling error from you, or do I have to write in even bigger letters that there's a difference between not liking and disliking?

Hulet
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:32 PM
At the risk of facing the wrath from Rebecca that I don't know enough about tennis players, can I ask someone to elaborate on the incident that involves martina and a slapping of a tour official? I never heard about this story and am very curious. :o Thanks.

oh, and I think I missed the post where the difference b/n "not liking" and "disliking" was explained. Can anyone be kind to re-explain it for me? :kiss:

Weevee
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:54 PM
Maybe it's wrong to call Jonas an idiot.
Maybe its wrong to call smygelfh a fool
But if you don't like the Williams
Times are bad!

VS Fan
Jan 28th, 2003, 09:02 PM
Well I guess she means that not-liking could be ambivalant or indifferent toard the person...

While dis-liking would be more actively persuing the cause of finding reason to promote others to dislike them also.

Just posting the article would seem to put smygelfh in the latter group, in my opinion.

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:00 PM
Wait a minute...I thought "not liking" was "disliking". What the hell are you getting at with this? There is no explainable difference because they're one in the same. Smygelf, you are really engulfed in this matter, so much so that you are not making since anymore. And how do you expect for Venus and Serena's fans to make a "believer" out of you??? As you and some others have said....we don't know them. The only thing that I can suggest is that you do what we (V&S fans) do. We read and watch their interviews in news articles and on tv. We also watch them when they play tournaments. Now, if you don't think that it's rather commendable that neither Venus nor Serena has ever made negative comments about other players be it WTA or ATP despite the negative things that have been said about them, then you will have already made your choice about them and there is nothing that any fan of theirs or the sisters themselves can do to change your mind.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:11 AM
At the risk of facing the wrath from Rebecca that I don't know enough about tennis players, can I ask someone to elaborate on the incident that involves martina and a slapping of a tour official? I never heard about this story and am very curious.

Assuming that you are actually wanting to know, I can give a vague outline of what occured.

During the Roland Garros finals - or rather, afterwards - Hingis went off court, pouting I would assume.

When asked to come back on court for the presentation she was so upset that she smacked the tour official.

This is the story that you were asking about?

smygelfh
Jan 29th, 2003, 07:41 AM
If I watch TV...

A player I like (like Hingis): I watch the match, even if I might have other things to do.

A player I dislike (like Shiavone): I watch something else, even if I want to see tennis.

A player I don't like (like Venus): I'll watch if I have nothing else to do or if I just want to see tennis.

However, you're still missing the point. I think it's my obligation as a devoted fan of someone to defend them if they're attacked, so I'm not surprised by SOME fans' reaction. However, it's also my obligation to look a bit realistic at problems regarding my fave, not dismissing everyone being a little bit critical as jealous idiots, because that's just helping the attackers.