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View Full Version : Björkman doesn't like Williams


smygelfh
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:09 PM
An interesting thing coming from Jonas. Does he have any
special reason to not like the sisters? He's played with
Kournikova, so he should know his divas. He's also well known
and liked by a lot of people, so it would be surprising if he
would make such an attack without reason.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/sport/story/0,2789,255998,00.html

Roughly translated:

”Megadivas”

Serena Williams is the best in the family. She beat her sister
in the AO finals. But now, the super sisters are critizised
by Jonas Björkman.

Serena and Venus Williams played the finals in AO and dominate
the women's tennis. But the swede Jonas Björkman doesn't think
the sisters are good role models for the sport.
-They are very unpleasant toward people, he says.

Yesterday morning, Serena Williams, 21, became the fifth woman
throughout history to win four straight GS titles. She won
the finals in AO over one year older Venus with 2-1.

Right now there is no real opposition for the super sisters. But not everyone cheer for the american prodigies.

-They have very little respect for people and they live in a dreamworld, Jonas Björkman tells 'Radiosporten'. He's been touring for almost ten years, but never met a similar attitude among the other stars.

-They are unpleasant. If the security guards don't open the door correctly, they snub immediately. They are megadivas, Jonas says.

He likes to play mixed - he has played with Anna Kournikova - but would never stand side by side to any of the sisters Serena and Venus.
-Never with girls like that, he decisevly says.

---

Anyone know anything about this? Or is he just 100% racist?

tennisfan1972
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:12 PM
Is he one of the security guards? who is jonas?

tennisfan1972
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:12 PM
lol

fleemke³
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:14 PM
jonas bjorkman


Well everybody has his opinion about things/people, so I don't see a problem :)

maybe he's right
maybe he's jealous

;)

Jericho
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:14 PM
either...
1) They beat him in mixed doubles
2) They didnt want to play mixed with him...
3) He wanted to have an 3some with them, bu they turned him down...

Nimi
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:16 PM
Jonas is god, & the most talented tennis player of all times. Im not biased or something, but what he says is holy :angel:

GermanBoy
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Now I know why I always liked Jonas Björkman!!!:cool: :cool: :cool: :bounce:

harloo
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Does he even know Venus or Serena? Whatever. LOL

I guess being on the radio saying negative things about popular players get's him going. Also, alot of women's players are divas so whatever! I just find this troll of a guy to be a megadiva himself. You go girl! ROTFLMAO!

selesrules
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:26 PM
My reaction is a combination of :rolleyes: with :eek: and a touch of http://www.jordysworld.de/emoticons/muede08.gif combined with a little bit of http://www.jordysworld.de/emoticons/wut10.gif

MartinaI
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:26 PM
Jonas is a lovely bloke and as a Swede normally pretty mild so it is quite surprising to hear such strong words. I am glad he has spoken up, I certainly agree with what he said - go Jonas!!

Larrybid
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:27 PM
Again, who is jonas bjorkman? Is he related to Bjork?

fleemke³
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:27 PM
What's wrong about it :confused: not everybody likes everybody you know :confused: .. Does everybody has to like them?

leslie
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:31 PM
Yea, who is he. I have never hear of him.

spiceboy
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by smygelfh
Anyone know anything about this? Or is he just 100% racist?

Or are you 100% stupid? So anyone who say something not nice of the Williamses has to be a racist?

I actually can't agree more with Bjorkman...I know there's a lot of people around cheering for the black sisters but have they actually met them? I've seen them in 2 different years in Wimbledon (97 & 98) and they were sooooo rude. They were walking around and people asking them for an autograph and they just said nothing, not even "no", "we're in a hurry", "later", they just ignored people without even looking at them. I mean, I'm not judging them for not signing, it's up to them but there's no need of being unpolite with that "diva attitude". :rolleyes:

On the other hand you can see how nice, polite and sweet is Chanda with everyone so believe me, is not a matter of racism but of education ;)

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by fleemke²
What's wrong about it :confused: not everybody likes everybody you know :confused: .. Does everybody has to like them?

No. But, does everyone has to like what bjorkman has to say? You know not everyone could like him too.

Well, I am indifferent (like most ATP players) to jonas before I saw that article. But, now, I have found one character of jonas which is quite distateful - talking negative stuff about fellow players. So, I say to jonas, "jonas, the sisters might be bad rolemodels but atleast they don't slag off player in a forum where the player can't defend themselves."

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:41 PM
I'm still waiting for the women to start talking about what an ass Pete Sampras is :cool:

Infiniti2001
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:43 PM
Well he is not the first, nor will he be the last. NEXT!!!

harloo
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:43 PM
spiceboy please! This guy was on the ATP, not the WTA. He probably hasn't even talked to either sister. He has a right to opinion though, because this is a free society. However, I question his sincerity. It doesn't matter anyways, because it seems in the tennis world Venus and Serena are damned if they do, damned if the don't. It doesn't matter what type of praise they give to opponents, some hater will have something to say about it. And BTW, I don't think he's racist. Maybe sexist though. LOL.

fleemke³
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by eta psi
No. But, does everyone has to like what bjorkman has to say? You know not everyone could like him too.

Well, I am indifferent (like most ATP players) to jonas before I saw that article. But, now, I have found one character of jonas which is quite distateful - talking negative stuff about fellow players. So, I say to jonas, "jonas, the sisters might be bad rolemodels but atleast they don't slag off player in a forum where the player can't defend themselves."

No you doesn't have to agree with Jonas .. but the topicstarter called him a racist :eek: ...

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:46 PM
may be you didn't notice the question mark, fleemke.

Anyways, I totally agree with Infiniti. It would have been surprising if jonas has said otherwise. It is too predictable like one of those ATP slam finals. :o

Infiniti2001
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:47 PM
Anyone know anything about this? Or is he just 100% racist?

Uh, the topic authour did not call him a racist. He/she posed a question :rolleyes:

Larrybid
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:48 PM
Ok, the ball kids say the sisters are nice to them. But, according to Jonas Somebody the sisters are devils to security gaurds. (Exactly when did Jonas join the WTA tour so that he could make sweeping statements about how people behave on a day in day out basis?) Frankly, I find it particularly reprehensible for male players to be mouthing off about female players - people that they don't work with everyday - while they lack the balls to similarly pop off about people they DO work with everyday.

When trying to assess character, look at who is talking. The sisters have taken all kinds ad hominiem attacks from one person or another related to the tennis industry. NEVER, have they allowed themselves to get into a pissing match with these people, despite being given ample prodding by the media. They have essentially turned the other cheek. There is no question why they have my utmost respect, and It is no wonder their fans take such glee and pride in their "boringly predicatble" success.

Keep winning and driving your detractors crazy with envy and spite.

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:55 PM
This guy is doing what hundreds of others do...

Using Serena and Venus' names to get his five minutes of fame.

I've never heard of him, and WOULD NOT HAVE if not for him criticizing the sisters, and we won't hear much from him again.

HingisLove
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:56 PM
Of course everyone have to open doors for them, no really. Far from every tennis player is 100% pleasent and kind to everybody at all times exp during a GS tournament.
Lets not just put Vee and Rena under a magnifying glas, I know for sure that I'm no picnic either when I'm under pressure

smygelfh
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:58 PM
No, I did not call him a racist.

I have never heard either of Jonas having anything to do with the sisters, so I merely wondered if anyone knew if he had any reasons for an attack, like being declined playing with them or something, or if it was just an unprovoked attack inspired by racism or jealosy or whatever, though it doesn't fit the image of being a good guy that I believe he has out there.

(And once again as in all these cases, I don't think he called the papers and asked them to quote him, but rather was asked and responded.)

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:01 PM
Not heard of Jonas :rolleyes:

Shows what sort of sheltered life some of you live in.

Not saying he is right or wrong.... thats his opinion.

He's seen enough of them at big events to make a judgement of them.
Maybe they dont like him too.

but who cares if he doesn't like them. Thats between him and his ego.

GogoGirl
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Larrybid - you took the words right out of my mouth. The ball kids loved V&S. So - Jonas must have heard about the Belgium radio shock jocks - and in sayng the above - he wanted to give his support to their comments and ideal. He maybe agrees the Sisters were monkeys - yet he is the one that ends up looking like one IMO. Monkey see - monkey do.

I could go on and on - but don't have time to get it going. Gotta go start cooking - but it is sad to me that folks hateful and spiteful sides show up more than not - yet the Sisters never get into a pissing contest or crack on their peers. Too bad - too sad.

Jonas has the right to his opinion. And if most in the Aussie crowd wished it was Kim in the final and that was their some reason for rejecting the Sisters - then how sad is that? Some have been quoted as saying the booing was justified. Then why don't most just boycott the tourney. The stands weren't full as it was - so more could have stayed home if they were so inclined, and were disturbed and turned off by another all Williams final. They could have stayed home!

Now let's say they all stayed away from the final. What message would they be sending? Think about it? Wouldn't it be the same message they send when they showed up - and when the Sisters advanced thru the tourney - that they wished they weren't there? Now really - how nice is that?

I say they should be glad to be leaving the stands and crowd and feel good about freeing themselves from a tense situation. Ms. Price knows what she feels. They are gone from there now - so they can move on and let those feelings go. But I don't blame her for speaking up to what she felt.

The Sisters will continue to rise. And IMO it is looking more and more like they won't play more than another two years at the most. I'd bet Serena will have to give some of that money back to NIKE - cause IMO - she won't play for another 5 years.

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:11 PM
I'm sorry but all I have for Jonas today is :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:13 PM
I'm betting 1% or less have heard of him. How many GS titles does he hold?? How many ATP tourneys did he win??

I have heard of Bjork, who won many ATP titles and slams, but not Jonas.

Jericho
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:14 PM
LoL @ what he said...and he plays with kournikova, the "megadiva" herself!!! LMAO!!! :p

lizchris
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:16 PM
I've heard of him, but I really don't the sisters are losing sleep over him not liking them. I don't think they have a lot of friends on the tour and I don't think it all about them.

selesrules
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:26 PM
Jonas Bjorkman is a currently active player who has been ranked as high as no.1 in doubles and no.4 in singles. He's more famous for doubles and won several grandslams in doubles, but he is also a solid player in singles...

Volcana
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:28 PM
First, I'll take the opinion of the ballkids from OZ.
Second, people have been misquoted before.

Third, if he said it, he's just cheapening himself.

junkartist
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:33 PM
I agree is he said it, it's a cheap shot...very cheap...

what would make him an authority to comment on their behaviour publicly based on a few random incidents:confused: I'd be interested if he ever had a conversation with them. Andre Agassi loves the Sisters but Andre has loads of class.

Oh well...

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:04 PM
I think that, ironically, Jonas picked a fine time to speak out about his dislike of the sisters. I think that this may be some sort of tactic to revert the attention back from the women's game to the men's. Maybe trying to get a little controversy started. Honestly, I don't think that you can judge someone in passing. Jonas is not on the WTA tour, and the only contact that he could possibly have with them would be by passing them in the player's lounge, or practice courts during Grand Slams. That's not much personal contact if you ask me.

kournikovafan13
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:12 PM
I agree with TBE's post

Shows what a tennis fan you are if you don't know Jonas

He can have his opinion, sheesh. Has it ever occured to you that maybe he's right? He's the one on the tour (I don't care which one, they still interact), not you :rolleyes: I'm not saying he is right, but I would believe his opinion over a Williams fan anyday

And please, Jonas would not be doing this to get attention. He's pretty shy and stays away from the spotlight

Scotso
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:14 PM
Two things to say.

1) It's well known that the Williams sister are not friendly towards other players.

2) I think people on tour know a hell of a lot more than you posters do, so perhaps you could stop fucking dismissing everything other people say in thinking that you know fuck all about everything.

kournikovafan13
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:16 PM
Especially posters WHO DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO JONAS IS, lol

Well said Scott

Scotso
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
I'm betting 1% or less have heard of him. How many GS titles does he hold?? How many ATP tourneys did he win??

I have heard of Bjork, who won many ATP titles and slams, but not Jonas.

Wrong again. Bjork is a singer.

Giuliano
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:17 PM
Borg even ;).

kournikovafan13
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:19 PM
lmao! :D

And fyi VS Fan, Jonas has won several ATP titles and has made the semis of Grand Slams a couple of times

Giuliano
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:21 PM
He was ranked number four at his highest in 1997, made the final in Bercy against Sampras and is a (multiple?) slam winner in doubles.

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:30 PM
Well I don't follow the ATP that closely, which has 40 or 50 players that can come out of nowhere and win major events, then fade almost instantly. This guy is completely OFF the sports coverage radar screen, so I don't know him and I bet few others do as well.

Venus and Serena are household words (names) as are Roddick, Agassi,, Sampras, Safin, Kuertin, Henman, and MANY other ATP stars whose names I would have trouble spelling.

Thus I STILL don't know him, nor do many other average fans.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:30 PM
LOL @ Bjork the tennis player :D I wonder if she plays in her swan outfit? :D

Bjorkman has twice made the QF of Oz, twice the QF of the USO, and once the SF of the USO. He's made the fourth round at least once at both the other slams.

He's won 5 career singles titles, and been in a number of other finals.

As already stated, he reached number 4 in the world I *think* in 1997, the year he reached the USO SF.

He's won 29 doubles titles, which includes a few grand slams, with different partners.

He also beat Sampras in 1997 on grass, in a warm up to wimbledon :eek:

I don't defend his comments, but I will defend him as a player - especially to somebody who praises Bjorks tennis playing ability :D

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:31 PM
Well I don't follow the ATP that closely, which has 40 or 50 players that can come out of nowhere and win major events, then fade almost instantly. This guy is completely OFF the sports coverage radar screen, so I don't know him and I bet few others do as well.

Venus and Serena are household words (names) as are Roddick, Agassi,, Sampras, Safin, Kuertin, Henman, and MANY other ATP stars whose names I would have trouble spelling.

Thus I STILL don't know him, nor do many other average fans.

Well if you don't know him, then you should save yourself the embarassment of commenting on the playing ability and career of somebody that you know NOTHING about, don't you think? lol

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:34 PM
Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) vs. Tim Henman (GBR)

1995-06-19 Nottingham Grass R32 Tim Henman (GBR) 7-6(7) 7-5

1996-01-15 Australian Open Hardcourt R64 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 6-1 6-3 6-2

1997-10-20 Stuttgart Indoor Carpet R16 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 6-2 3-6 6-3

1998-09-28 Munich Indoor Carpet R16 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 7-5 6-4

1999-02-08 Dubai Hardcourt R16 Tim Henman (GBR) 6-3 7-6(7)

2000-06-19 Nottingham Grass R32 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 5-7 6-4 7-5

2002-01-14 Australian Open Hardcourt R16 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 6-2 7-6(6) 6-4

2002-02-08 Davis Cup (WG-1R) GBR vs. SWE Indoor Carpet RR Tim Henman (GBR) 6-4 7-5 4-6 7-5

Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) leads 5:3


:D

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:34 PM
I know this much about bjorkman - he is an a$$
I know this much about henman - he is a classact

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:35 PM
Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) vs. Andy Roddick (USA)

2002-06-17 Nottingham Grass R32 Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) 7-5 7-5

Jonas Bjorkman (SWE) leads 1:0

:D

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:36 PM
For anybody interested, he's only beat Pete that one time, and has never beat Andre ;)

I was just seeing how he compared against the "household names". Not bad for somebody who is WAY off the sports radar :D

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:39 PM
Preyy amazing that one could reach #4 in the world with such a Dismal record!!

5 titles since the mid-90s, give me a break!

Mens Doubles?? Noone watches or cares. It is simply a refuge where the guys who don't compete well in singles can make a living. Only the "Woodies" got some good press when they were dominating in mens doubles or I might not have known there even was a men's doubles competetion.

No wonder he gets no coverage.

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:40 PM
Jonas is one of the nicest people you're ever likely to meet.

Scotso
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:41 PM
Again, a lot of Williams fans are really really delusional.

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:43 PM
Hehe, and a lot of non-Williams fans are really really delusional. It's something we all share at times. :p

kournikovafan13
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
Mens Doubles?? Noone watches or cares. It is simply a refuge where the guys who don't compete well in singles can make a living.

lmao

So why isn't women's doubles the same? Coz your "darling" Williams sisters play it? :D

I recommend you leave this thread for good to save further embarrassment

Infiniti2001
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:05 PM
FYI, there are people who follow the WTA, and couldn't care less about the ATP and vice versa. So please stop with the name calling already . UGH!

P.S. if bjorkman was as nice as "some" professed, he wouldn't diss anyone in public:eek:

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:16 PM
That's right Infiniti. Oh, yeah, and who really gives a damn that he doesn't want to play mixed with Venus or Serena? Hell, they haven't entered a tourney playing mixed in years. Oh, and er...Jonas is far far from a household name. Hell, Andy Roddick came along and in a few tournaments made a bigger name for himself than Jonas has his entire career.So all of you who find it somewhat appalling that a lot of posters don't know him, get over it. He's practically a nobody among tennis stars.

Freewoman33
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Infiniti2001
Well he is not the first, nor will he be the last. NEXT!!!

Amen to that, brother. What haven't they been called? They are strong and will keep on keeping on, regardless of what some two bit atp player, radio host or some weak wta player has to say about them.

joaco
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:23 PM
they are n 1 and 2. they obviously will think themselves as divas.... it's they nature. you can't blame them, it's how they are. they have respect for the other, the only things is that they think they are better than the others... that why he deslikes them, isn't it?:rolleyes:

Joaco

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Infiniti2001
Well he is not the first, nor will he be the last. NEXT!!!

AMEN Infiniti!!!!! :D

With Venus and Serena being the best, they will always have stuff like this.....so I know I could care less, and I know Venus and Serena do as well :)

selesfan
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:32 PM
I'm surprised at Jonas, I used to think he was a nice guy. Maybe this is one of the reasons the sisters are not friendly with the tour, because so many players come out with crap like this about them. Maybe the other girls never made them feel welcome.

fleemke³
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:41 PM
lol @ all the "tennisfans" who don't know Jonas Bjorkman :rolleyes:

selesfan
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:51 PM
lol @ all the "tennisfans" who don't know Jonas Bjorkman

I believe everyone knows him but they were being sarcastic as to who is he to comment on women's tennis. Is he a mole in the women's lockeroom and can see how unfriendly the sisters are.;)

fleemke³
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by selesfan
lol @ all the "tennisfans" who don't know Jonas Bjorkman

I believe everyone knows him but they were being sarcastic as to who is he to comment on women's tennis. Is he a mole in the women's lockeroom and can see how unfriendly the sisters are.;)

let's hope it ... for them ;)

Jakeev
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions folks so not sure why anybody should care what one player has to say.

Just last week it was said that the sisters were very nice to the ball kids.

Nobody is perfect in anybody's eyes.

Hurley
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:01 PM
I don't really have any opinion on what he said -- it wasn't racist, certainly, and many people have said similar things, and many people have said exactly the opposite about Venus and Serena -- but Jonas IS one of the nicest and most tactful players on Tour.

I'm not sure I believe the quotes. It seems wildly out of character.

Volcana
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:19 PM
Jonas is one of the nicest people you're ever likely to meet.

Obviously not, IF he truly siad those things.

leslie
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
Preyy amazing that one could reach #4 in the world with such a Dismal record!!

5 titles since the mid-90s, give me a break!

Mens Doubles?? Noone watches or cares. It is simply a refuge where the guys who don't compete well in singles can make a living. Only the "Woodies" got some good press when they were dominating in mens doubles or I might not have known there even was a men's doubles competetion.

No wonder he gets no coverage.

VS Fan, could you please tell me what "Noone" mean. I see the word all the time but it does not match the sentences I read and it is driving me nuts. I want to think that it means "none" but I am not sure. Thanks.

STROMILE
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:39 PM
it s no all about being racist but just about telling the truth are the girls so disgraceful toward bodyguards ? Does this Borgman NONE got to know that Vee has a boy Italian boyfriend (are they still together ?) who happen to be an … bodyguard.

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by King Scotso of Aragon
Two things to say.

1) It's well known that the Williams sister are not friendly towards other players.

2) I think people on tour know a hell of a lot more than you posters do, so perhaps you could stop fucking dismissing everything other people say in thinking that you know fuck all about everything.

And how do you know that the sisters aren't "friendly" towards the other players? It's no secret that the sisters don't have much friends on tour, but to say that they aren't friendly to other players is just shit. You don't know that. Neither do I, so i wouldn't make that assumption. I would take what he said seriously if he played on the WTA Tour. How much does he interact with them for him to judge them? Whatever. i'm sure Venus and Serena doesn't give a flying fuck what he says, so he is entitled to think what he likes. And is he a security guard on the tour? How does he know who is nice to the guards and who isn't? He must have very little to do to go after such frivolous incidents...oh well...fuck it. Rock on Sister Sledgehammers...keep on slamming the competition and the naysayers. :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

Uxobi
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:00 PM
....Once again, another wanna be uses Venus and Serena to get a little attention. He can't get it on the ATP tour, so he has to pick on a couple of women. What a dick! (If he did not make those statements, please disregard my comments)
;)

spokenword73
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Perhaps one day the Williams sisters will tell everybody who they don't like. Instead they say only nice things about other players, because they have CLASS!!

calabar
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:13 PM
Can someone PLEASE give me one good reason why I should give a rat's azz about B-jerk-man's opinion on ANYTHING or anyone?

Shane54
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:18 PM
Smygelfish, just b/c someone does not like someone and they happen to be another color does not make them racist. If that is the case then alot of posters here are racist b/c they do not like Capriati, regardless of what she has said towards the sisters.

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Uxobi
....If he did not make those statements, please disregard my comments
;)
That applies to all my comments too.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:38 PM
Only the "Woodies" got some good press when they were dominating in mens doubles or I might not have known there even was a men's doubles competetion.


For what it is worth, Jonas combined with the other half of the woodies after Mark Retired ;) Jonas and Todd went on to be the number one team in 2001, just a year after the woodies finished the number one team ;)

Rag on Jonas for saying that all you please, I shall not defend those words, if they were indeed his.

But please don't rag on the tennis career of someone when you admittedly know NOTHING about ATP.

Jonas has had a career that most guys can only dream of. No he isn't a Sampras, or an Agassi, or even a Moya.

But he's been very succesful, and made a lot of what he had.

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:46 PM
Those of us with eyes and not rose-colored glasses know in our hearts that the Williams are not nice girls. Why do you think most fans find them arrogant and are tired of the sister act?

Rolling-Thunder
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:47 PM
I really could give a fighting hoot what Jonas or others of the ATP say about the Williams Sisters. His personal opinion is perfectly fine. But I don't think it is professional for him to comment on them in anyway that is disparaging because it is really unlikely that he has ever had any opportunity to spend any measure of time with them to make any judgment of them. The same can be said about other players who have also reached the pinnacle of the ATP or WTA.

Moreover, I have never seen any personality requirement listed for entrance to a tournament. A player's entrance is based on his/her being ranked high enough to make the draw. A player's performance determines his/her success on court. There have been many characters among the greats on the men's and ladies tour. There are some one may like and some one may not. But with great success especially at the Slam level there is often either a love/hate attitude toward any top player, typically because his/her success has probably come at the expense of some other player whom one prefers. The William Sisters are no exception and therefore should not be judged any more harshly than others in the past. Like them or leave them. And as a positive aside, you don't hear them bad mouthing others even when they're bearing the brunt of someone's negativism. They leave whatever hard feeling they have out on the court. I think that is something that is a very positive role model for all of us.

TSequoia01
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:53 PM
Jonas is entitled to his opinion, although I would like some details on how it was formed. I am glad that the Sisters don't pay any mind to that stuff. Because in the end it is only what he thinks. If they had to build their self esteem and confidence from what the tennis establishment and crowds in general thought of them, no way would they have appeared in 5 out of the last 6 Grand Slams. Again it is not what someone else thinks about them, it is only about what they think. Richard and Oracene taught them well. :cool:

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Those of us with eyes and not rose-colored glasses know in our hearts that the Williams are not nice girls. Why do you think most fans find them arrogant and are tired of the sister act?

Hahahaha...you're so mad at them it's clouding up your logic treufreund....don't hate...congratulate :kiss: :devil:. Did you poll all the tennis fans around the world? Are you and Miss Cleo related...or did you consult her? if you say most fans on THIS board find the arrogant and don't like them, i'd believe you in a heartbeat. But c'mon luv....that's stretching it doncha think? :kiss: ;)

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:58 PM
bonkers, I talk to people around the world interested in tennis and NEVER meet people who like them other than a few of my close African-American friends (and even they are starting to question some of their antics). I won't get drawn into a debate with Williams fans about this because most of them will just resort to name-calling and won't accept what I am saying. That's fine with me. I said what I needed to say.

Scotso
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:01 PM
A person can be nice and not like someone.

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Okey Dokie, but rest assured that the 100 or so people you correspond with internationally doesn't represent a large portion of tennis fans world-wide :kiss:.

Shane54
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:09 PM
It is so true treufreund. Players are different than they are in public. Surprisingly, everyone thinks Chanda Rubin is so nice and friendly, but in person i have met her a few times and she is very snobby. I am from her hometown and work out at same gym. You would be pretty hard pressed to find someone from here that thinks she is friendly. A few weeks ago, I was stretching right next to Chanda at the club, but I dared not even say hello or talk to her knowing her personality.

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:11 PM
??? That does surprise me about Chanda because I met her in San Diego and she was very friendly. But that was at an official tournament so who knows...

o0O0o
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:26 PM
Okay Williams fans, you BLACK people are getting ignorant. Before you accuse me of racism (oh what a fine line I walk), let me disect that last sentence. Black Williams fans (and it seems that basically all Williams fans on the board are black) are displaying a lack of knowledge. To what you ask? To the way the Williams sisters are looked at. NOBODY likes them. My boss says they look like men. My tennis instructors have made similar comments towards Serena in particular. Any non-tennis friends of mine (who only know of Aggassi, Kournikova, and the Williamses) make comments on them being ugly/bitchy. When I went to the Cherry Hill Racquet Club and the replay of the Williams sisters doubles match was on, EVERY one in the lobby was sighing and moaning when they won points in the third set.

The ONLY person I know who likes them is this black 16 year old girl I work with. She knew Serena won the morning after the final, so she was obviously a fan.

So don't pretend that your girls are well loved. They're not. They're disliked by most people. Yes, by most white people. Whether this is because white people are all racists or because black people are color-blind to the sisters' rudeness and arrogance is up for discussion.

Now, on to the subject matter. Williams fans once again prove their supreme ignorance by not knowing who Jonas Bjorkman is. "Tennis fans" you are NOT and this is why the Pack always gets rocked on in these arguments.

What did he say? In a few words, he doesn't like them. Did he speak out of line? Hell no! He can say whatever the fuck he wants to. He's been in probably 7 or 8 of the same events as them each year for the last six years. If they seem rude to him (as they do to everyone else) and he wants to say "they seem rude" then let him.

When Volcana makes a comment that he is 'obviously not' one of the nicest people just because he said (uncontroversial) statements about the Williams sisters, I can't help but roll my eyes. Apparently he is a (insert whatever) because of one thing he said?

Idiots.

Frankly I would have said that they are bitches. Then I would have commented on their looks. Because that's what MOST people say. So I think Jonas Bjorkman deserves applause for being nicer than most people in this case.

1jackson2001
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:32 PM
All hail Jonas for he knows everything. :worship: ;)

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:32 PM
LMAO! I don't care about their looks personally. But what you said is the brutal truth. Sometimes I just shake my head at the stuff I read in here. These fans are in DENIAL. Why do SO MANY players past and present, crowds around the world and so many announcers and journalists dislike them? It keeps coming and coming from so many corners and yet very few of their fans can really deal with this except to say that all of these people are either jealous, racist or mean. :rolleyes:

ttaM
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:33 PM
Didn't Kournikova refuse to give someone her autograph because the elevator they were running went "too slow"?

And wasn't there drama over her jumping into some players taxi cab?

Clearly the Sister aren't the only ones who act like "megadivas", and they aren't the only ones who don't sign autographs at every opportunity. When I was at the Canadian Open in 2001 Dementieva walked past everyone wanting her autograph.

TSequoia01
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Frankly I would have said that they are bitches. Then I would have commented on their looks. Because that's what MOST people say. So I think Jonas Bjorkman deserves applause for being nicer than most people in this case.

Now having said all of that what does it matter? Jonas Bjorkman leaves the AO with nothing the Sisters leave with over 1.2 mil and 3 trophies. Trophies for first and second place in the singles and first place in the doubles. And I might add a place in tennis history. Now that is something that truly matters. :cool:

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Kournikova has often been a lightning rod for all kinds of dislike and jealousy. I think she probably did act awful at times but much like Hingis trials and tribulations and losses have made her nicer. Hingis is my fave but when she was younger she was RUDE. Kournikova seems to get on fine with the other girls and does not mind playing doubles with them or doing exhibitions. She was THE NICEST PLAYER I HAVE EVER SEEN when I was in San Diego. After she won her match she gave one of the most sincere, grateful speeches to the audience and everyone was very receptive to her. She seemed visibly moved by the support that she had received. So after that I began to like her. But I have no doubt that she could also be quite a diva.

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
Okay Williams fans, you BLACK people are getting ignorant. Before you accuse me of racism (oh what a fine line I walk), let me disect that last sentence. Black Williams fans (and it seems that basically all Williams fans on the board are black) are displaying a lack of knowledge. To what you ask? To the way the Williams sisters are looked at. NOBODY likes them. My boss says they look like men. My tennis instructors have made similar comments towards Serena in particular. Any non-tennis friends of mine (who only know of Aggassi, Kournikova, and the Williamses) make comments on them being ugly/bitchy. When I went to the Cherry Hill Racquet Club and the replay of the Williams sisters doubles match was on, EVERY one in the lobby was sighing and moaning when they won points in the third set.

The ONLY person I know who likes them is this black 16 year old girl I work with. She knew Serena won the morning after the final, so she was obviously a fan.

So don't pretend that your girls are well loved. They're not. They're disliked by most people. Yes, by most white people. Whether this is because white people are all racists or because black people are color-blind to the sisters' rudeness and arrogance is up for discussion.

Now, on to the subject matter. Williams fans once again prove their supreme ignorance by not knowing who Jonas Bjorkman is. "Tennis fans" you are NOT and this is why the Pack always gets rocked on in these arguments.

What did he say? In a few words, he doesn't like them. Did he speak out of line? Hell no! He can say whatever the fuck he wants to. He's been in probably 7 or 8 of the same events as them each year for the last six years. If they seem rude to him (as they do to everyone else) and he wants to say "they seem rude" then let him.

When Volcana makes a comment that he is 'obviously not' one of the nicest people just because he said (uncontroversial) statements about the Williams sisters, I can't help but roll my eyes. Apparently he is a (insert whatever) because of one thing he said?

Idiots.

Frankly I would have said that they are bitches. Then I would have commented on their looks. Because that's what MOST people say. So I think Jonas Bjorkman deserves applause for being nicer than most people in this case.

Woohoo...you keep ranting and going on about how MOST people don't like the Williams sisters. But at the end of the fucking day, you don't know that for a fact. Your boss and friends again, don't qualify as most people. Neither do, commentators, your instructors or whoever else...and that's a fucking fact. :kiss: :devil:

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:41 PM
Jonas did not LEAVE AO WITH NOTHING! He did not play this year! But he has been around the sisters at many tournaments last year and don't think he does not know them. Besides he certainly is not the only one in the ATP or WTA who has spoken out about their behaviour.

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:45 PM
I know loads and loads of South Americans and West Indians who just love Venus and Serena. Maybe they don't count as people who like them?

o0O0o
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:46 PM
Okay, we'll pretend that the many and varied people I associate with (who happen to have one unanymous opinion) just happen to be the only people who think that way. Kind of like when I ask them if they like commiting suicide, and they say "no". I mean I guess I can't be sure that most people dislike commiting suicide.

o0O0o
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:48 PM
When South America and the (hah) Western Indies have a vaguely important political or popular presence (in the press for example) and when I actually meet a South American or Western Indian, your point will be relevant to ME. Until then know that I speak of western society and anything with great influence on western society.

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:49 PM
that's quite a silly comparison doncha think?

Shuji Shuriken
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:50 PM
hahahaha....okay...i get ya. We aren't very important now are we? You crack me up sometimes.

o0O0o
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:52 PM
As an individual I can take you seriously but as a whole? Then no, you (plural) don't matter much to me at all.

MarcusRock
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Jonas did not LEAVE AO WITH NOTHING! He did not play this year!Um, so what did he leave with?

selesfan
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:00 PM
I worked our tournament in Philly for a couple of years and Venus was very nice, though shy. I can't say the same about Martina Hingis or Anna Kournikova.

MarcusRock
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
...who happen to have one unanymous opinion...What the hell is "unanymous"?

TSequoia01
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
Jonas did not LEAVE AO WITH NOTHING! He did not play this year! But he has been around the sisters at many tournaments last year and don't think he does not know them. Besides he certainly is not the only one in the ATP or WTA who has spoken out about their behaviour.


Jonas is entitled to his opinion as are others. But that does not change the fact that the Sisters are making history. They have appeared in four straight Grand Slams! The only pair in tennis history to do so. Lets talk about that, not what some journeyman tennisplayer thinks. Who cares? Certainly not me. If some people think they are not nice they are entitled, because that is a matter of opinion anyway. But what they are doing with their tennis is unprecedented! Serena, Venus, and their fans could careless what some people have to say. It is not like they were ever supported in the tennis community anyhow. For all of those who choose not to support the Sisters because you feel they are not nice, you are entitled, but the hell with you! :o

BrianII
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:06 PM
Intresting ,
Lets say, if I take the comments of say Dokic,Patty, Dementieva players actually on the WTA tour as regards Kournikova then isn't somewhat suprising that that is a player he decides to play mixed doubles with. I mean unless he's a peeping tom in the ladies locker room surely those girls must know more than him. As for how many weeks he's on the tour wth williams possibly 12 more likely 5, a week at each Miami and the slams, I say this because frankly when rafter (recently retired ) or Woodbridge ( found himself a better partner ) are not carrying jonas in doubles he rarely makes the second week of anything, his singles heydays 97'98' williams sisters were barely on the tour.
We have that most white poeple, from our zeros friend above ,don't like the williams sisters but we don't know whether thats based on race or whether black people simply aren't aware of of their so obvious faults. Contrast this with hingis ...most of my gay friends think she's A spineless rude arrogant bigoted bitch ...seems people in france think likewise (they also think she a cheat and so do I),they don't like her even in switzerland prefer patty, Gagliardi etc.... the problem is these people are predominantly white not black so it kind of rules race out .Therefore she must be actually be a Rude arrogant bogoted spinless bitch and therefore one wonders why fans of this rude arrgant bitch dislike what they perceive to be her black counterparts ...could it be that black rude arrogant bitches are worse than white rude arrogant bithces ...really confusing.

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
Okay Williams fans, you BLACK people are getting ignorant. Before you accuse me of racism (oh what a fine line I walk), let me disect that last sentence. Black Williams fans (and it seems that basically all Williams fans on the board are black) are displaying a lack of knowledge. To what you ask? To the way the Williams sisters are looked at. NOBODY likes them. My boss says they look like men. My tennis instructors have made similar comments towards Serena in particular. Any non-tennis friends of mine (who only know of Aggassi, Kournikova, and the Williamses) make comments on them being ugly/bitchy. When I went to the Cherry Hill Racquet Club and the replay of the Williams sisters doubles match was on, EVERY one in the lobby was sighing and moaning when they won points in the third set.

The ONLY person I know who likes them is this black 16 year old girl I work with. She knew Serena won the morning after the final, so she was obviously a fan.

So don't pretend that your girls are well loved. They're not. They're disliked by most people. Yes, by most white people. Whether this is because white people are all racists or because black people are color-blind to the sisters' rudeness and arrogance is up for discussion.
I think you missed the point. Most of Williams fans know they are not well liked. Even the sisters know, when they play a match, they can count on the crowd to root for their opponent.


Now, on to the subject matter. Williams fans once again prove their supreme ignorance by not knowing who Jonas Bjorkman is. "Tennis fans" you are NOT and this is why the Pack always gets rocked on in these arguments.

I guess to be a tennis fan I have to know every single tennis player - male and female. There is no such thing as "women's tennis fan" and "men's tennis fan." I admit being more of a football/soccer fan than a tennis fan. But, if you ask me about any of the women football players, I wouldn't know them. (well, I guess I have heard of Mia hamm. BUt that is it.)

What did he say? In a few words, he doesn't like them. Did he speak out of line? Hell no! He can say whatever the fuck he wants to. He's been in probably 7 or 8 of the same events as them each year for the last six years. If they seem rude to him (as they do to everyone else) and he wants to say "they seem rude" then let him.

Don't you think it "seems rude" to talk badly about other players "behind their back"? He probably knows the interviewer won't ask the sisters to reply for jonas' comment. So, his "few words" tell me that atleast he is a coward b/c he is speaking ill of others through the media.
Another thing is that, like most non-williams fans, he seems to me trying to justify why he doesn't like them. A simple, "I don't like them" is not bad. But, to say he doesn't like them b/c they are rude to the bodyguards, blah, blah is ridiculous.

When Volcana makes a comment that he is 'obviously not' one of the nicest people just because he said (uncontroversial) statements about the Williams sisters, I can't help but roll my eyes. Apparently he is a (insert whatever) because of one thing he said?
A person who says negative stuff about another person on a forum where the latter doesn't get to defend himself is not "the nicest of people".


Idiots.

Why can't you argue without name calling? Is that impossible to do? Why are you so aggressive? To be honest, a person who calls others names isnot fit to determine whether a person is "the nicest of people"

Frankly I would have said that they are bitches. Then I would have commented on their looks. Because that's what MOST people say. So I think Jonas Bjorkman deserves applause for being nicer than most people in this case.

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us, you won't be quoted on a newspaper.

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:19 PM
People hold V@S to a different standard then the other players.

First of all ALL tennisplayers will not want to sign autograpghs to everyone. Second of all People always try to make it appear that V@S are not the friendly ones. Well imho it is those other girls who weren't friendly toward them. Third of all, I as a fan of tennis could give a damn who likes who. I just want my favs to win tourneys and slams. Fourth, everytime V@S accomplish some huge tourney alot of people *True COLORS* come out. Fifth. Jonas opinion imho are not valid. He supports no arguements to backup his statement. Now from media and interviews Venus and Serena are sweet natured women. They have great things to say WHILE THEY WIN. That means alot. Sure it is easy to say nice things about people when your ass is being kicked... Ala Martina Hingis, Jennifer and Linsday. It is those who are gracious when they win that I find to be classy role models. Jonas is imho silly in his statements and lol at his comments regarding V@S and Anna.. lmao

Sixth,People are just reeking with emotions and anger cause V@S are doing what they predicted they would not. They constantly every single day prove those idiots wrong. It only hurts the egos of the people who can't deal with Venus and Serena winning.

Seventh, if this statment is true that Jonas supposedly stated then I am afraid karma is going to come up and bit him in his right to left ass cheek. If yah don't believe me just ask because I can e-mail you a quick list of people who are laid of with broken bones or haven't done a thing on tour as V@S held up the trophies and were handed their fat checks..

THAT IS ALL:)

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:26 PM
d

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:26 PM
So Bjorkman wasn't even entered in the Australian Open event.

Wonder where the media had to go to dig up this comment by him???

Or more likely, I wonder how long ago it was that he actually said this??? 1997?? or 1998? If it is old, it may be closer to the truth, as Venus and Serena weren't exactly welcomed to the tour with open arms.

5 singles titles at obscure events, it is still incredible that ANYONE thinks that I should know who he is.

He will gain much more noteriety from his dis of V and S than by ANY of his tennis accomplishments.

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:37 PM
VS Fan that just may be true. Maybe he said that BEFORE he pulled out of OZ Open. This supports my Seventh statement of bad *karma*.

that is all

for now

VS Fan
Jan 26th, 2003, 11:58 PM
Leslie:

"Noone is actually "No one" with the space missing and similar in meaning to "None"
------------
oOOOo:

Your posting history shows very clearly where you stand.

(Anything negative concerning the sisters Williams MUST be gospel truth)

Oh, I too think that Martina ia an excellent player, and miss seeing her on the tour. I hope she recovers and gets back into the mix very soon.

gweeny
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:19 AM
The reason why many people do not like the Williams sisters is not because of Race (at least not the majority reason) is because they are JEALOUS.

Unless, you have met the Williams sisters, and that means being in their presence for at least 24 hrs, you CANNOT judge what their personality is like.

I like Venus and Serena, but I only "know' what their personality is like just from watching them on TV and reading their interviews.

I don't think Jonas or other negative posters can come to a conclusion about Venus and Serena unless they are STALKERS of the Williams sisters. I doubt that there is any body (even the Monicas, Kims and Gugas) who have not being cranky and grumpy in their life-time. No one is perfect!!!!!

JEALOUSY is a sad, sad emotion, that only tears away at you.

There are some posters who cannot find anything positive to say about some Tennis players, and the main reason is jealousy. Please, if you hate that they beat your favorites, get over it.

frenchvee
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:37 AM
o0O0o, do you know how ignorant you sound, you should take time and consult a psychiatrist
hate is a serious disease
you really sound like a hateful person to me

by the way
the reason most of your white friend and you too don't like the sisters is because they think their dominating a white sports.

Peace.

o0O0o
Jan 27th, 2003, 01:31 AM
(Ignores the entire post about mistakenly replacing "i" with "y")

Oh Lord, here we go:

"hate is a serious disease"

No.

"you really sound like a hateful person to me"

I'm sure I sound like a lot of things to a lot of people. If "hate" is the deepest word you can use to describe an intangible human emotion than you have no business talking. To refer to someone as a 'hater' or to take anything negative as 'hate' shows laziness or incompetence in understanding the human mind.

"by the way the reason most of your white friend and you too don't like the sisters is because they think their dominating a white sports."

:rolleyes: Make your kind seem a little less intelligent... if it's possible.

spokenword73
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:26 AM
Well, someone must like Venus and Serena because don't they have multi-million dollar shoe contracts, the gig with McDonalds, Avon, etc. They are on late night TV, Oprah, sitcoms. If that's being disliked, wonder how they would be treated if they were loved, appreciated and respected?
:confused:

LucasArg
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:27 AM
:angel: peace :angel:

MarcusRock
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by o0O0o
(Ignores the entire post about mistakenly replacing "i" with "y")Let me know when you manage that.

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:04 AM
Jonas was at home with his wife (she just had a baby)

selesfan
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:17 AM
I find it hard to believe his wife just had a baby and he has time to comment on the Williams sisters.

Freewoman33
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:50 AM
Venus and Serena look like men? It makes me laugh when people say this because there are some girls on the wta tour that look more like men than Venus and Serena would ever look. At least they have breasts ( ones that you can see) and asses ( very visible). I'm not disrespecting any player, because I don't know them personally and I think that they all work very hard to be where they are, but before you start disrespecting these two girls for apparently no reason, look at some of the other women. IT IS VERY VISIBLE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE!

Crazy Canuck
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:04 AM
5 singles titles at obscure events, it is still incredible that ANYONE thinks that I should know who he is.

He will gain much more noteriety from his dis of V and S than by ANY of his tennis accomplishments.


The point isn't even that you don't know who he is. It's that you made comments as if you DID, when you clearly knew crap about him,

Pounce on his comments ALL you want, but don't pounce on his tennis abilities - unless you like looking silly and uninformed ;)

As for him gaining more noteriety for his comments - yeah, to people like YOU he will.

Those of us who actually pay attention to mens tennis, and don't make random comments about people we know shit about, will remember him for than that.


LOL @ you

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:29 AM
Uhm, isn't he doing the same thing? I mean, honestly, how well does he actually KNOW Venus and Serena? How well do you actually KNOW him? And obviously no one's really concerned about looking uninformed. I mean, who's to judge someone if they make statements about people who they know very little about? There seems to be a lot of that going on here. Starting with Jonas.

juggler
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:50 AM
I think what wouldve happened is that the radio station wouldve asked jonas what he thought of the williams, and he then answered the question and gave his opinion.

simple as that.

its not as if jonas held a press conference to make these statements.

gentenaire
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:54 AM
Actually, last AO I saw a lot more of Jonas than I did of the Williams sisters. That match against Henman was one hell of a match! Very very entertaining, some great points by Jonas. I think he made the 'point of the day' topic a few times last AO.

I think he knows more about the personality of the Williams sisters than any of us here. Maybe he had one bad experience with them, who knows.

I do recall a certain Dokic fan reporting here about a scene he witnessed with Venus Williams backstage at Wimbledon. It looks like Jonas isn't the only one.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:56 AM
Hail Venus - I *think* that you are missing the point.

My point is *not* that Jonas is the finest human being alive.

My point is that any true tennis fan, would not scoff at his achievements.

But alas,, 80% of this board are "player fans" which is why they turn their nose up at a perfectly good career.

Once again - crap on his words, not his tennis.

BasicTennis
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:26 AM
of course any of the sisters would not choose Jonas as a partner....there are more better doubles players out there than Jonas....and Jonas has to pay $2million dollars to Serena just to play with him or $1million for Venus.:p

TeeRexx
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:29 AM
Some bigots like to be private.
Some bigots like to be public.

Jonas is just one of the public idiots.

Experimentee
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:46 PM
Dont diss Jonas's tennis ability just because he says something stupid. Hes a mighty fine tennis player, and seems a nice person as well. I dont know why he said something like this, maybe he hasnt had good experiences or just doesnt like them as tennis players?

Midnite Surfer
Jan 27th, 2003, 01:45 PM
Its so funny how little I care about what Jonas Bjorkman has to say. I hope I'm not considered rude for that but I just had to get it out.

CC
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Here I am reading these posts in all seriousness, and then I come upon MarcusRocks' sig. Very funny.:D

Anyway, NEXT.

CC
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:15 PM
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Venus and Serena may have a running bet between them. Ok Serena, after one of us wins a Grand slam, who do you think will be the next person to talk about our terrible tennis or say that we're possessed by the devil?:)

Shane54
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Don't you realize that Jonas must be a bigot. If you don't like every single black person on the face of the earth you must be!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Uxobi
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Who cares? Everyone is entitled to an opinion.....no matter how stupid it sounds. I happen to think that many posters on this board would lick the sweat from the ass crack of anyone who dissed the Venus or Serena. Some people like them and some people hate them...for whatever reason. What counts most is that Venus and Serena were named most marketable female athletes(Serena #1, Venus #3 Anna #4). That proves that a lot of people like them. Read about it in USA Today.

harloo
Jan 27th, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Uxobi
Who cares? Everyone is entitled to an opinion.....no matter how stupid it sounds. I happen to think that many posters on this board would lick the sweat from the ass crack of anyone who dissed the Venus or Serena. Some people like them and some people hate them...for whatever reason. What counts most is that Venus and Serena were named most marketable female athletes(Serena #1, Venus #3 Anna #4). That proves that a lot of people like them. Read about it in USA Today.

Now as far as what you do in your personal life with ass cracks, you can keep it to yourself. Ugh!:D

Also, this fool doesn't know them. Please! Locker room gossip is just that and since he has played doubles with the chatty cathy's of the WTA, I bet he has heard an ear full on bitter remarks from his partners.

I seem to think that in todays game in order to get some type of attention you have to diss a Williams sister.
Look at the list:
Oliver Rochus
John McEnroe
Chris Evert
Gabriela Sabitini
Elena Dementieva
Amelie Mauresmo
Jennifer Capriati
Marcelo Rios
Pete Sampras
Martina Hingis
Anna kourinkova
Natalie Tauziat
and now Jonas
and the list can go on and on and will continue to grow.

So IMO, it's expected. Some of these people are just so bitter it's ridiculous and sad at the same time.

Well, such is life. LOL
:D

Crazy Canuck
Jan 27th, 2003, 04:59 PM
I'm curious where you get the profound insight that they are "bitter"?

I have seen many of these people on court, and read many of their interviews- and *most* of them don't even seem remotely "bitter" to me. In fact, short of people saying jealous things, or having a sour puss look on their face - how exactly do you tell who is and isn't "bitter"?

Or is "bitter" just the word we use to label somebody who doesn't like our fave, as a means of making ourselves feel better?

Ma. Estefania
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:12 PM
LOL to the ones who "wonder" who is Jonas Bjorkman....you don't know anything of tennis.

Anyway, I'm surprised that he has said that, as many have said already, he's a very calm man, and he usually never speaks like that of someone. So, anyway....I can trust in him.

harloo
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Rebecca
I'm curious where you get the profound insight that they are "bitter"?

I have seen many of these people on court, and read many of their interviews- and *most* of them don't even seem remotely "bitter" to me. In fact, short of people saying jealous things, or having a sour puss look on their face - how exactly do you tell who is and isn't "bitter"?

Or is "bitter" just the word we use to label somebody who doesn't like our fave, as a means of making ourselves feel better?

Well Becca you have answered your own question somewhat. I think having an opinion on a certain player is fine, however when they become attacks on character then I would say you are "bitter". Jealousy can cause bitterness and resentment, because the person feels that they are entitled to some of the success as the ones they accuse. JMO. Not the law. LOL

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:23 PM
LMAO at people who thinks Jonas is the begin all and end all in the game of tennis. So what a lot of people don't know him. Hell, he didn't create the damn sport. I, for one, don't follow men's tennis, so I don't know him myself. I've only heard his name once or twice. You speak of him as if he's Pete Sampras or Andre Agassi. So what, everybody's not a men's tennis fan, but still enjoy the sport? I only started following women's tennis because of my favs, and I'm neither ashamed nor stupid for not knowing every guy on the ATP who's had a decent career. I AM A WILLIAMS FAN....NOT AN ATP TOUR FAN. Again, so what? I guess you've gotta pass a "who's who of tennis" exam in order to call yourself a fan. Get real.

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Hmmmm...

This thread has gone FOUR pages.

Please find me a thread where Jonas Bjorkman has been even mentioned on this board, before he dissed V & S , and if unsuccessful, go to an ATP board and post the LAST time he was mentioned. ( prior to this comment becoming public)

I haven't tested this, I just have a feeling that he is not on any sports radar recently, until his comment was either made or dredged up from the past.

This will be fun, and I might get surprised. If not, my point is made. Any Takers???

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:56 PM
Surely, Becca must be up for the challenge. :p

Iconoclast
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM
Click 'Search'
Keyword: Jonas
Forum: ATP

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:12 PM
As a Williams fan I obviously don't like the comments that Bjorkman made, and Yes I do know who he is :-) More importantly, I just find it really interesting how/why he would choose to say stuff like this, regardless of if its true. I find all of this such talk a little petty myself. Its kinda cute when the girls talk, but why he chooses to say this is odd to me. But again I say ...to each his/her own, and I don't know the circumstances around the comment either. I think comments like this and the media help propogate the "WS are ________" comments. I have on occasion spoken with people at my tennis club and the reasons they give are the standard ones, but they never can give examples other than "I don't know...thats just how they seem"

I think what it boils down to is not race (even though I think it is a factor for some), it is the fact that they are beating everyone else in sight...on a consistent basis. Everytime they think they have someone to knock them down, up pop Serena and Venus.


Serena has done some things in the recent future that have made me question her, but I can't see for the life of me what Venus has done.

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:19 PM
I just checked on this board only, and found that the LAST time Jonas was mentioned on THIS board was March 24, 2002.

IT was in a fantasy tennis thread where ONE participant used Jonas as his player.

Hmmm... Almost a YEAR since his name came up on this board and I should know who he is!!??

I rest my case.

Iconoclast
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:35 PM
VS Fan,

Two threads about him. Both from summer last year.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28368
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27744

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:43 PM
HMMM...

Six months ago on an ATP forum and almost a year ago on a WTA forum.

Yeah, this guy is like a household word.

Hmm...

Five or six threads since he talks shit about the Williams.

Like I said this guy was OFF the radar before he said this.

He probably said it years ago. Media crap.

Iconoclast
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:45 PM
He doesn't play on the WTA Tour. Besides, he hasn't been playing recently. I'm sorry, but for a tennis fan not knowing Jonas Björkman is equivalent to not knowing Amanda Coetzer.

Dawn Marie
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:52 PM
Becca stop acting like your some Holier then Thou person! Especially when you come off as one of the most ignorant twits up in here. Lmao


Like everyone is supposed to KNOW JONAS? Get real and get your silly ass on TOPIC. Please. Folks this is there way of steering off topic and not talking about the issue. Jonas is a biased fool, who made harsh statements about V@S. Jonas will NEVER be as popular as V@S. Jonas WHO? lol

See! I can diss the hell out of the ATP tour players and STILL love tennis and the WTA TOUR. Screw the ATP tour players.. hehehehehe hahahahaha. THEY ALL SUCK!!
NEXT!:)

VENUS AND SERENA are just making the haters mad cause they are beating up their little friends and favorites.

BK4ever
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:55 PM
I can't believe that this thread went four pages :eek:

Here I am, adding to it :)

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion. I met Venus twice and she was very quiet. I could interpret that as aloof or shy...but I did neither, because a brief meeting with someone is not sufficient time to judge someone's personality. The reason why the issue of how much V&S are likes is intensified because they are dominating the sport. Many of the people who clain to dislike them, can't get enough of them (if everyone at Cherry Hill hates them, why were they showing their doubles match).

Alot of criticism has to do with JEALOUSY.

The most important point here is that V&S couldnt give a shit who likes them and who doesnt...(especially based on ridiculous criteria). Trust me, if they were hated, they would not have endorsements and their products would not be moving off the shelves.

They know that they have to abide by different rules than their white counterparts (thats just the reality of life (especially in America).

JCAP
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:57 PM
Divas.............................. I can well believe it!!!!!!!!!!

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:03 PM
Amanda Coetzer has done a LOT more in Women's tennis than Bjorkman has done in men's tennis.
I think she has more than 5 Singles titles.
I primarily follow the WTA.

How many ATP fans would know who are the also rans in the Women's game are, even in the top twenty.

There are 100 or more men moving in and out of the top twenty and unless they make a big splash, they are forgotton.

Sometime even when they win a big tourney, it is hard to remember their names. I am right now trying to remember the name of the guy that won Wimbledon 2001, from Bosnia or somewhere. This guy is better known than Jonas, but without reference I don't remember even now. If he won three of four slams I might.

Larrybid
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Rebecca
I'm curious where you get the profound insight that they are "bitter"?

I have seen many of these people on court, and read many of their interviews- and *most* of them don't even seem remotely "bitter" to me. In fact, short of people saying jealous things, or having a sour puss look on their face - how exactly do you tell who is and isn't "bitter"?

Or is "bitter" just the word we use to label somebody who doesn't like our fave, as a means of making ourselves feel better?

Come on Bec, you seem to have a problem with the word "bitter" but to me that sounds as good as any to decribe a person who would be quoted in the media that they don't like someone, simply becasuse of thier PERCEPTION of their personality.

Look, I could name a few people that I work with that I don't like. But I could only think of some unpleasent emotions (like jealousy, or anger or bitterness) that would drive me to be quoted for public consumption on my personal negative feelings for anyone, especially people I work with and wish to maintain positive working environment.

Healthy self-aware people just don't come out of their bag with negative public comments about people, without some motivation. Your comments seem to suggest you are in agreement with that also. So Harloo suggests it was motivated by "bitterness", I say thats as good a guess as any. What do you suppose was Jonas' motivation - surely it wasn't anything good, do ya' think?

Iconoclast
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
I am right now trying to remember the name of the guy that won Wimbledon 2001, from Bosnia or somewhere. This guy is better known than Jonas, but without reference I don't remember even now.
Case closed.

(In fairness, I think Jonas Björkman offered very little evidence to back up his claim, except for that security guard anecdote.)

Larrybid
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by WtaTour4Ever
I think what it boils down to is not race (even though I think it is a factor for some), it is the fact that they are beating everyone else in sight...on a consistent basis. Everytime they think they have someone to knock them down, up pop Serena and Venus.


To the idiot who said that "most people" dislike the Williams sisters: That is like saying most people dislike the Yankees. It may or may not be actually true, but its irrelevant. What's important is that the people the like them tend to like them a lot, and people who don't like them tend not to like them with passion - and don't need any rational reasons for their passionate feelings. But both camps know who they are and care what they do. In the entertainment industry this is what matters most. And is why the Williams sisters will continue to be PAID hansomely.

miranda_lou
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:18 PM
This thread is really funny. Jonas Bjorkman hasn't gotten this much attention EVER in his career.:rolleyes:

Personally, I know who he is and I've always liked him. He seldom beats any really good players (except Sampras, for some reason) but he is a good tennis player. He's sort of on par with Wayne Ferreira in that he occasionally does well at a Slam but never wins it all.:) He has always seem to be very quiet so I was a little surprised at this outburst.:(

I'm sorry, but for a tennis fan not knowing Jonas Björkman is equivalent to not knowing Amanda Coetzer.

That's not true.:p These marginal players are very easy to forget unless they play a match like Younes played last week, it's almost impossible to remember an individual name. Bjorkman has never really done anything spectacular and he has been injured a lot recently, so his name isn't exactly in the minds of a lot of tennis fans.

miranda_lou
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:23 PM
. . .but i do KNOW alot of people on this board are bitter because the Williams are in ALL the grand Slam finals

Life must be absolute HELL for these Williams haters.:eek: I mean, to not like someone and have to see their faces all the time must be stomach turning.:mad:

I'm not a Williams fan and I don't like watching them play each other but I do watch when they play others. That Serena/Kim match was really great. I wasn't rooting for either of them but when Serena came back and won it I have to say I was pretty excited. Great match.:hearts:

Blogger Dives
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:25 PM
I know who Björkman is, granted I knew his accomplishments better earlier in his career. I never knew I actually had something in common with him. :D

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:36 PM
Younes??

Who is he??

Oh yeah, he is the one who took Roddick to five sets and lost 21-19 in the fifth...I Think!!

Well, even though this is probably the greatest, most competetive men's match I have ever seen, unless he follows up with tourney wins and more great games against the well known players, no one will remember him in a year or so.

For what it is worth, Andy Roddick owes his fame mainly to media hype, along with his personality. But I think he will begin to win slams if he can get more consistent. He should have been in the final.

snoop
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Blogger Dives
I never knew I actually had something in common with him. :D

:D I agree

JCAP
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:39 PM
add me too that list

GoDominique
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
I am right now trying to remember the name of the guy that won Wimbledon 2001, from Bosnia or somewhere. This guy is better known than Jonas, but without reference I don't remember even now. If he won three of four slams I might.

OMG, you are sooooo hilarious(ly stupid)! LMAO !!! :D

And you REALLY believe that everyone else is as ignorant as you - too funny !!! :D

VS Fan
Jan 27th, 2003, 09:01 PM
Go Dominique:

Explain how it makes me stupid, because I can't remember a name. I can look it up if I cared but I don't.

Point is that this guy, Jonas is an ablolute NOBODY, when compared to Venus or Serena..... and for that matter hundreds of other players in tennis history.

So how does he come off talking shit about the sisters?
It makes him look bad in my opinion..

Also note that I have not stooped to insulting others on this board as some have the tendecy to do.

Hurley
Jan 27th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Some bigots like to be private.
Some bigots like to be public.

Jonas is just one of the public idiots.

So, when I say that I hate Michael Chang, I must be a bigot. Because I don't like him and he happens to be a different race than me? So why don't I like Ben Affleck? Because he's straight? So why don't I like Elton John?

Maybe he doesn't like them because, whether it's true or not, he thinks they're brats?

If you want to attack racists, I kindly direct you to the "Belgian DJ's" thread.

Think.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 27th, 2003, 09:44 PM
LMAO at people who thinks Jonas is the begin all and end all in the game of tennis. So what a lot of people don't know him. Hell, he didn't create the damn sport. I, for one, don't follow men's tennis, so I don't know him myself. I've only heard his name once or twice. You speak of him as if he's Pete Sampras or Andre Agassi.

Actually, I specifically said that he was NOT an Andre or a Pete.

Would you like me to re quote that part for you?

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 27th, 2003, 09:48 PM
I find it funny that some people think that EVERYONE dislikes Venus and Serena. Do you know them? Are you friends with them? No? Well then basically your opinion is based on ignorance.

Face it if Venus and Serena were white I have feeling your cherry hill club members would be cheering from the highest mountain top. Why?

Because anna kornikova is the most notorious arrogant and snotty player on tour. Interview after interview on television and at tournaments she comes off as a spoiled child and ultimate diva. And yet she has fans all around the world. But somehow we're suppossed to believe that venus and serena have no fans? Are you insane? They have millions of fans around the world!

They also have haters like ooooo and his fellow snooty tennis club members. For example the sisters hit swing volleys which are not a traditional shot however instead of being praised as innovative and risk takers (because the swing volley is more high risk than the traditional volley) they are instead ridiculed. Jealousy. Hate. Call it what you want but from my own experience I know how this country operates. If Chris Everett came out with swing volleys she would not be criticized.

face it these girls are freaking tennis players who have not hurt anyone, yet all these people are filled with so much hate as to groan and moan and ridicule them. funny thing is though if the sisters showed up at that cherry hill tennis club those petty freaks would be falling over themselves to get an autograph or watch them practice.

Jealousy. Hate. Call it what you want but I know what it is. Does everyone who dislikes the sisters feel this way? Of course not but I can spot the ones who do oh so easily simply based on what they say and how they say it.

In terms of Jonas so he thinks they're divas? Oh wow how earth shattering. WHO GIVES A DAMN. They are not hurting anyone so i say live and let live.

I also find it funny that no one mentions the other athletes who were or are considered "arrogant" and unpopular:

Barry Bonds the best ball player to play baseball is has millions of fans and millions of haters. The media always searches for a way to discredit or attack bonds. Why? Because he doesn't put up with there hypocritical bullshit. He doesn't act like he owes them anything. He doesn't act deferential. He's his own man and answers to his god and family only. The fans didn't make him a baseball player. He did.

Muhammad Ali was hated and villified. People called him a traitor. People called him worse than that. They even stole a huge chunk of his career as well as his titles. Ali was his own man who followed his own heart and mind. He didn't step in line and do what he was told as if he was some animal. He thought for himself and did what he wanted to do.

These are just two examples and believe me if Bonds, Ali, serena, and venus had kissed ass to the media and acted like they owed something to the fans and media and even this country then they would have had/have more fans. But it doesnt matter because in the long run venus and serena will be more popular and respected for who they are down the road Just like Ali.

Look at McEnroe and Connors they where crucified in the media also and yet now they are beloved. The point basically is this: live your life and fuck the haters because they didn't put you on top, the fans didn't put you on top, your own hardwork did.

I'm sure if Venus and Serena were Jonas sisters he wouldn't have said a damn thing. I'm sure if youre a hater and if Venus and Serena were your sisters you wouldn't be a hater. Why? BECAUSE YOUR REAONS FOR HATING THEM ARE NOT LEGITIMATE BUT FOUNDED ON UGLY EMOTIONS AND REASONING.

This is why the haters do not matter: BECAUSE YOU ARE PETTY and transparent.

tenn_ace
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:13 PM
not disagreeing or agreeing with Jonas (who I like and follow), I think, it was quite unprofessional of him... you just don't do it at work: dissing your co-workers to a local newspaper/radio station...

seems like ATP school for young stars doesn't really help a lot to male players... How many of girls were bad-mouthed? (including by a "classy" Henman): Lindsay, Jenn, Monica, Williams.... who's next?

smygelfh
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:23 PM
They also have haters like ooooo and his fellow snooty tennis club members. For example the sisters hit swing volleys which are not a traditional shot however instead of being praised as innovative and risk takers (because the swing volley is more high risk than the traditional volley) they are instead ridiculed. Jealousy. Hate. Call it what you want but from my own experience I know how this country operates. If Chris Everett came out with swing volleys she would not be criticized.

Have I missed something here? I didn't know S & V were being criticized for their swing volleys, though I haven't been very active here lately.

As for innovation, they didn't innovate the swing volley, just use it more than most people nowadays. Didn't Hingis use it a lot when she was on top? And it doesn't always look pretty. And it seldom looks like the best shot to select, no matter who does it. And it's a lot more efficient than it looks, if you can use it, that can't be denied.

Uxobi
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:51 PM
Whatever! Words won't change the fact that Venus and Serena are on top of the tennis world. Everyone else is playing catch up. Why not jump on the Serena/Venus bandwagon? Even 5 seconds of fame or having your name mentioned on a WTA web board is better than nothing. Congratulations to Venus and Serena for taking tennis to a new level...At least they prove themselves on and off the court.

Mrs. Peel
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:12 AM
I don't believe Hingis used it alot when she was on top...

I believe it was Venus who brought the shot back with significant recognition as her variety was extremely powerful and unorthodox thus INNOVATING the shot.

I would refer you to the USOPEN 2001 match where Venus d. Martina. John McEnroe, Dick Enberg and Mary Carillo repeatedly commentated Venus' numerous swing volleys. McEnroe also provided some historical prospective on the shot. If Hingis did use it the Williams Sister's variation was undoubtedly more stylish and awe-inspiring.

Innovate does not mean to CREATE..it means to MAKE CHANGES,...to DO IN A NEW WAY...whick Venus and Serena definitely DID DO :p

DiZZiA
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:14 AM
Big Deal!! Is Jonas the only one???? Huh?? Let's don't mention the whole world, just simply the tennis circuit... Wonder how many players really like the Williams "Bros"!!!??? :rolleyes:

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Mrs. Peel
If Hingis did use it the Williams Sister's variation was undoubtedly more stylish and awe-inspiring.


Piffffffffffff.... Like you or any other of the bandwagon fans of Venus and Serena have ever followed tennis a day in your life before they started winning. :rolleyes:

I can't name to you a damn person other than those of you on this message board that even like them. The media glorifies them, and don't realize it's probably cost them more to sponsor them than anything. They aren't liked, it's a well documented fact... And I don't think no matter how much they win that will change.

And o0O0o I tend to agree with almost everything you've said on this post... And rest assured, they might think they have us outnumbered but we know the truth! :drool:

brickhousesupporter
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:07 AM
So you dont like them the rest of america doesn't like them so what. I guess nike an reebok just wasted 90 million dollars between them.

As long as I like them that is all that matters to me.

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:13 AM
Yeah and we've still got you outnumbered.... And yeah, I think Nike and Reebok are throwing their money away. I know a lot of people who stopped buying the moment they got signed.

So it's confirmed that Serena's signed with Nike? Well if anyone wants some ladies NIKE shoes in size 9.5, sweat shirts and shorts in Medium... I'm givin them away!

The 'racist' double standard: how Whites are made to feel guilty and "hateful" for loving their own people and culture.

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:14 AM
LMAO@ Blogger. Uhm, what makes you think that Venus and Serena care at all that they are not liked? The little circle of friends that you hang around don't account for the majority. Hell, it doesn't matter one bit that you and your buddies dislike them. Like you said, they are winning. Your opinion will never be heard by them. And if it was, it wouldn't matter much to them I'm sure. I mean, today's African-American could really care less what White people think of them. Believe it or not, Venus and Serena were well prepared for people like you and 0ooo long before they turned professional. It won't hurt them one bit that they're disliked because people will still show up to tournaments to cheer them on or to root for their demise. Either way, they won't lose any money or fame from it. They will get what they want from the sport regardless. :p

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:15 AM
seems like ATP school for young stars doesn't really help a lot to male players... How many of girls were bad-mouthed? (including by a "classy" Henman): Lindsay, Jenn, Monica, Williams.... who's next?

Thankfully, most of the male players who have made obnoxious comments are of the "older" gereration on tour.

Krajicek, Rios, Henman , now Jonas, etc... they aren't exactly the "young stars" on tour today.

I am yet to find anything offensive come from the mouths of people like Hewitt, Federer, Safin, Ferrero, Roddick, etc - though perhaps I missed something;)

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:18 AM
haha Wasn't it Rios a few years ago who accused the womens tour of being fat? Or do I have him mistaken with somebody else. I know he said there was no challenge on the womens side of tennis.

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:19 AM
It also makes me double over with laughter to see that the only thing you can do about them winning and ruling the sport is to come on a message board and throw a bitch service. Or, sit around a country club (in which I'm certain that Venus and Serena can afford to buy if they wanted) with people like you and cry about Blacks taking over your beloved sport. It tickles me ever so generously that you can't do one damn thing about it. Hahahaha! I don't know whether we "outnumber" you or not, but you sure as hell can't stop us all.:wavey:

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Rios has said a number of things.

The most infamous, must have been where he reportedly refered to Monica Seles as a fat woman, in line for something - perhaps somebody has better details on this.

I believe that it was Krajicek who said that the womens tour was full of fat "pigs", but perhaps I am confusing them - or maybe they both said it.

Rios is a wonderful player to watch when he's in good form. It's rather unfortunate that he has to ruin it by speaking.

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:24 AM
Something or someone always comes along to stop everybody from doing something... Arrogance always gets a headcheck. And what is the ratio of Williams to all the other players on the tour, you can hardly call that a "take over". :p And I sure as hell am sure you don't outnumber us, not by any means or measures! ;)

BTW, it delights me to know I can rile you fellow bandwagoners of Williams up so much on a simple message board.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:26 AM
Alright -

I have just been told that apparently the Rios-Seles story is a rumour, and Seles claimed that it never happened?

Regardless - Rios DID say that the top women have no competition in the early rounds. For the most part, he really wasn't off base here.

I believe he's made other remarks that were not quite as accurate though.

Anyhow - I don't have all Rios' comments in memory, thankfully ;)

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:28 AM
Thanks Rebecca... I knew those comments were made, but I wasn't quite sure by who. ;)

Zenith
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:05 AM
It is really sad that a fellow tennis player would make such statements in public about his colleagues. This just goes to show the type of person he is.
A lot of people are bitching about the Williamses and not for one second appreciate history in the making. And what is ironic, these same 'haters' will be singing the praises of the sisters when they retire from tennis just like they are now doing with Muhammed Ali.

selesfan
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:16 AM
Didn't Rios tell Monica to move her fat butt, of course Monica was too nice to admit that he said this to her.

junkartist
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:49 AM
Rile up? I'm putting your butch ass on ignore!

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:54 AM
Whippie... Yippie... You do that JUNKartist... One less piece of sh*t to worry about! :drool: :bounce:

Volcana, like I said dumbass I'm not going to write your grade school paper on your sports hero! They're a FAD and like all FADS they FADE in due time! :kiss: :p

persond
Jan 29th, 2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Blogger Dives
Whippie... Yippie... You do that JUNKartist... One less piece of sh*t to worry about! :drool: :bounce:

Volcana, like I said dumbass I'm not going to write your grade school paper on your sports hero! They're a FAD and like all FADS they FADE in due time! :kiss: :p


:D It is far better to be "thought" a FOOL, than to speak (type), and remove ALL traces of "DOUBT".:kiss: :kiss: :hearts: :hearts:

Sharapower
Jan 29th, 2003, 07:40 AM
That was Pat Cash who said that women were not physically trained enough and fat... except Davenport LOL.

Dawn Marie
Jan 29th, 2003, 08:15 AM
Blogger Jives, you are weak minded. You are weak because you can't accept other individuals as soulful people outside of your own race. African American people disturb you. That is so weak. If you were strong you wouldn't let skin pigmentation bother you so much.

The racist bastards in here are so obvious. You are the ones who kiss Anna's ass and think she is a fantastic mentor, but turn around and make excuses for your own emotions concerning V@S and arrogance. The "Cherry Hill Club" is so pathetic and obvious that it is laughable. Everytime a subject comes up and it concerns racism and folks wish to talk about the problem, you "Cherry Hill Chickens come out to try and defend the bigots. I know why, cause you see yourselves in the bigots and don't like to see your true selves in this message board. You try to change the subject and reverse shit only because you can't deal with your own stupid hatred feelings. You feel that when we call a person a bigot and you as well have those same feelings that in a sense we are calling you a bigot too. The fact that the SAME OLE SAME fools come in here defending bigots only leads me to believe that you too are bigots.

that is all,

treufreund
Jan 29th, 2003, 10:45 AM
It's not the COLOR of their skin that bothers people but the COLOR of their actions. Sad how people cannot think anything better as a response but to cry racism. :sad:

servenrichie
Jan 29th, 2003, 10:52 AM
And you are very dense, if you cant see the COLOUR of Blogger Dives posts!

treufreund
Jan 29th, 2003, 11:03 AM
You don't need to call names. Blogger Dives makes some very good points btw. There is way too much censorship, political correctness and thought control going on in here. It's insane that just because someone speaks out against some of the crap posted by SOME Williams fans (a handful) and happens not to like the Williams that he or she is labelled racist. And you bet not even dare to mention that you like Chanda or that you have black friends, have worked to fight discrimination cuz none of that matters if you don't like Venus and Serena. :rolleyes:

servenrichie
Jan 29th, 2003, 11:35 AM
Quatsch! you must not like Venus and Serena and if you think his whole posts are centered on that, i repeat, then you must be dense. He reeks of racism and bigotry in a way that is absolute pathetic.

Pureracket
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by junkartist
Rile up? I'm putting your butch ass on ignore!
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm following suit. Trust me; this poster has probably been here before and been banned. One his/her posts are monitored closely, I'm sure he/she/it will be banned again. Though the moderators here are quite liberal, they seem to be consistent when it comes to racist remarks.

Mrs. Peel
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:54 PM
WOW...can you believe this person is a woman as she persists?!?!?!...she's so hostile and aggressive I see her in a wrestling ring...honey...cut back on the steroid injections! Don't worry, you'll find love one day!:p :wavey:

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:56 PM
Mrs. Peel, I can't believe this person is a person. Never mind it's gender. Oh, and is "outnumbering" us supposed to be some type of threat? Ha! Like I said before, you can't beat us all, and I dare you to try. :p

PhoenixStorm
Jan 29th, 2003, 05:43 PM
The only reason why I see some posters as being racially biases is because:

1) they say they dislike venus and serena's game. Okay thats fine but then see number 2.

2) they like monica, kim, jen and lindsay's game which is exactly the same kind of game that the sisters play or see reason number three.

3) They dislike the sisters because they are arrogant. Okay, but then they like kornikova? She's the epitome of arrogant. Or they like martina hingis. Yup, arrogant there.

When it comes down to it who cares if they dont like serena or venus for whatever reason. Truly there is no reason to dislike anyone you don't know and none of knows any of these tennis players. So really I just chalk it up to some people disliking the sisters because they trash their favorites so often and win so much. They are haters. If the sisters were ranked 100 or 200 in the world would these people still dislike them? I have a funny feeling they would not.

Of course people might say they would be different if they were ranked 100. I beg to differ. Based on all the interviews and articles I think the two sisters would be the same because they don't define themselves by what they achieve on court. They don't measure the value of their lives by titles or grandslams. we're talking about two girls who didn't even go out and celebrate after winning a slam.

So to all the williams fans out there lets let the subject die already because we know why these people dislike the sisters and nothing we say or do can change it. Why bother arguing with haters?

These are the same people who cheer against michael jordan because they want to see him fall.

mentos
Jan 29th, 2003, 08:40 PM
Sour Grapes make the Sweetest Whine!

Blogger Dives
Jan 29th, 2003, 09:08 PM
So much fun to make the Williams fans get all fired up! :D You guys, you all really humor me. :wavey:

treufreund we might as well face it, all of us that dislike the Williams fans, and refuse to join the bandwagon are racists. :o

Most Williams fans, are now angry that the mind control they have taken on this board is being threatened. Yes there will be an rising, a rising again of everyone who isn't a fan of the sisters to have a place on this board and not be ridiculed... for simply having an opinion.

BTW, Yes I'm a female, I have a boyfriend of one year... And I wouldn't touch steroids... if you knew my size you'd know I haven't. (5'7, and 124 lbs) Outspoken because of my career path, I'm in law school... if you haven't noticed the best lawyers in the world are the best at arguing!

joy - And when the hell did I insult Serena's shoe size? I just said I have several size 9.5 US Nike's I'd give away... that's my shoe size... I have no idea, nor do I care what her's is. :rolleyes:

Informative
Jan 29th, 2003, 10:40 PM
How many (more) white people are going to publically attack/defame/ridicule/malign Venus and Serena? So far we've had Margaret Court, Martina N., John McEnroe, Martina H., Chris Evert, Y. Kafelnikov, Elena Dementieva, Amelie Mauresmo, Jennifer Capriati, Pete Sampras, Pam Shriver, Mary Joe Fernandez, and Gariela Sabatini (I'm leaving many others off this list because of time and space limitations but I'm sure you get the point). Now this creep/jerk Bjorkman. When will these mindless, bilious attacks end? Unfortunately, NEVER. As long as Serena and Venus are alive these comments will continue. Why? For the exact same reasons that Althea Gibson, Arthur Ashe, Zina Garrison, Lori McNeil and many other black players have had to endure them. It's a good thing (and a tributre to their parents!) that Venus and Serena are strong enough to take these vicious blows and continue to win. In the entire history of tennis no dominant players have had to deal with as much outright slander and libel as Venus and Serena. Same as it ever was, indeed...

smygelfh
Jan 30th, 2003, 07:32 AM
Probably magnitudes fewer than who gets wrongfully accused for being racists by Richard and Oracene and SOME fans here...

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 30th, 2003, 11:51 AM
Poor Venus and Serena. It must be tough having all those millions of dollars from doing something you love, untold loyal fans, travelling the world, enjoying victories in major competition in one of the world's high-profile sports. Yup, they have so much to contend with. I'd never want to be in their position with all those haters.

*joui plays violin*

Experimentee
Jan 30th, 2003, 11:56 AM
I've come back after two days and this thread is still on the first page! Just let it go people! Who cares about what Jonas says?

Crazy Canuck
Jan 30th, 2003, 03:06 PM
Apparently a lot of people care ;)

My personal favourite is the "Venus and Serena don't care what the HATAS say, and neither do we!" response, followed up shortly with another 8 responses to this thread ;)

PhoenixStorm
Feb 3rd, 2003, 02:18 AM
Snore. Who cares what Jonas thinks? I mean Amelie Mauresmo thinks Hingis is a homophobe. I'm sure she doen't have anything nice to say about her. Such is life. Jonas is an a$$ lets move on.