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angele87
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:05 PM
I don't think this has been posted yet and I found it interesting ( to say the least) so here ya go :)

Race row over Serena boos
By Richard Yallop
27jan03
AUSTRALIAN Open tennis champion Serena Williams's mother Oracene Price believes a racial element contributed to the Melbourne crowd's occasionally hostile reaction to her daughter.

Ms Price, whose daughters Serena and Venus contested Saturday's women's final, has told The New York Times she believed a racial component was involved in the crowd's resistance to an all-Williams final. Her remarks were sparked by the boos given to Serena during her semi-final on Thursday against Belgium's Kim Clijsters, who is Lleyton Hewitt's girlfriend.

Small sections of the crowd in Rod Laver Arena booed in the final set when Serena took an injury break for a blistered foot, and again when she won.

Ms Price said: "I guess it's because the environment of tennis has mostly been white. Especially over here in a culture where you see that people have conquered other people who were indigenous to this country.

"And the same thing in the US. I think it's a bit of arrogance, more or less: who has to be on top and who has to be on the bottom."

Ms Price could not be contacted yesterday, flying home to Florida with her daughters.

Former Grand Slam winner Margaret Court said she thought the jeers resulted from the length of the injury break. "I don't think it had anything to do with colour," she said. "Australian crowds respect ability, and the problem in the final was they didn't know which sister to support."

Network Seven commentator and former Davis Cup player John Alexander said: "Growing up in tennis in Sydney with Evonne Cawley, I felt crowd behaviour was never based on race."

He recalled the autobiography of former black American tennis champion Althea Gibson, who wrote that Australia was one of the first places she had not felt discrimination.

"I can understand what Oracene says because of the prejudice the family may have suffered in the US, but the reception given to Clijsters was because of her association with Lleyton, and the fact that she's the closest thing we have to a women's champion."

CC
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:11 PM
*shrug*








(thanks angele)

TeeRexx
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Price has got to be wrong because no Aussie would ever restrict or demean another individual because their skin color was not white. :rolleyes:

Experimentee
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:20 PM
I dont think they were racist, just ignorant idiots who dont have anyone else to support because aussie womens tennis is in shambles.

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:48 PM
LOL b/c I first read the title as "race row over serena's boobs"):o

When your run biological experiments, you need a certain type of "control" to eliminate the effect of some of the factors you are not testing. The control and the subject you are testing react similarly to every agent except the one you are testing for. Without the control, it is impossible to determine what the cause of a reaction is b/c there are so many factors that might lead to the same reaction.

Similarly, why the crowd booed serena during and after the match is hard to determine. I am not even sure whether the people doing the booing know what inner motive forced them to act as that. So, we need to run another 'control' experiment for next year AO which would have the following scenario:

-kim and lleyton break up
-serena starts dating lleyton
-the australian media labels serena "almost ozzie"
-kim and serena reach the semi
-kim takes extended injury time during the match with serena
-Observe if the crowd booes kim.

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by angele87
Ms Price said: "I guess it's because the environment of tennis has mostly been white. Especially over here in a culture where you see that people have conquered other people who were indigenous to this country.


I wasn't aware that Oracene was an expert on Australia and its people.

Well, you learn something new every day.

TeeRexx
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:08 PM
Kart - The issues of Australia and it's people is a matter of well documented fact, I do believe. :rolleyes:

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:19 PM
Are you an expert on it as well then ?

Havok
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:19 PM
this is a bunch of BULL. the crowd wasbooing Serena not because of the color of her skin,but because of the fact that allof asudden she took a medical time out for blisters on her feet and she made it seem like it they hurt really bad,when in fact we people know that blisters don't hurt at all,aslong asyou don't rip off the skin. they booed her because she dug herself out of a hole there and saved herself from defeat

Hulet
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:33 PM
Naldo, don't you think it is almost impossible for the crowd to see whether the blister was broken or not from that distant and angle? And, since when is "digging oneself out from defeat" a boo-able behavior?

I will say this again it is impossible to say why the crowd booed serena at that moment. Only few of the people who booed her would actually know. It was such a spontaneous act and, like all spontaneous acts, it's very hard for the person who booed to determine exactly why he did it. Even if they know, there is always rationalization and denial at work to muddy up the reason.

TeeRexx
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:39 PM
kart - Maybe you need to do a little reading, my friend.

http://www.wilja.asn.au/

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/refarticle.aspx?refid=761572789

http://www.culturelanguage.com.au/

Tee Rexx :cool:

tennischick
Jan 26th, 2003, 03:59 PM
wow! :eek: you expect this from Richard but Oracene? is this source credible? :confused:

anton
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:03 PM
yea i thought this was about her boobs too.

leslie
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:27 PM
I was planning to take a trip there for vacation but now I change my mind. One could not pay me to go there. Also, no wonder Dokic would not play there again or go back there because the Australian people would boo her off the court.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 26th, 2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Kart
I wasn't aware that Oracene was an expert on Australia and its people.

Well, you learn something new every day.

You have to be an expert to know that Australia is ruled by people who much like Americans raped and stole from the lands indigenous people....?????????????????????????????? :rolleyes:

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:02 PM
Interesting sites Tee Rexx :cool:, I'll try to look at them properly when I have more time. Of course, I'm sure you'll agree a bit of reading is no substitute for going there and staying for a while. That's when you really learn about the people and their attitudes - by getting to know them. I'm hoping that I will get over to Australia one day for a few months. After all, the last thing I would want to do is make a judgement on a country and all it's people on the basis of a two week holiday. That would be a bit of a broad generalisation don't you think ?

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:10 PM
And Freethinker (why did you change your name BTW ?) I don't have to be an expert to know that. I wouldn't however make comments like those, which I knew would be quoted in the media, unless I was sure I knew what I was talking about. Hence my observation of Oracene's expertise on Australia, which I was unaware of until today ...

Larrybid
Jan 26th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Let's see: the Aussie crowd boos Serena becasue of a injury timeout that they thought took too long. They should be booing the trainer, not Serena. And somebody thinks blisters don't hurt!! Didn't one of Agassi's opponents retired from a match this week during a beating from Agassi, citing a blister. I wonder how the crowd treated him?

I totally understand why they would cheer for Kimmie, but booing Serena....come on...what was it REALLY about?

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jan 26th, 2003, 06:52 PM
OK I have blisters on both of my feet as we speak, and Serena had every right to take an injury time-out. If you have blisters, it will not force you to retire from a match. However, it does hinder your movement and they are very painful. It's literally like "ow ow ow, forehand, ow ow ow, backhand." It hurts every time you put pressure on it. Serena was not stalling or faking. If you're about to lose because a blister is hindering your movement, it's the smart thing to do to get it removed.

Blogger Dives
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:13 PM
Oracene, is a friggin idiot! Hey Oracene, if that was the case why did they cheer for Venus!? See this is why I can't like the Williams' they need to tell their parents to shut up. First Indian Wells, now the Australian Open... Where's next? Anytime they get a "boo" it's racially motivated now? Get over it, stop playing the damn race card. I don't hear Serena speak about it, it's only been the parents. Hell if you think that's the case Richard and Oracene pull them out of this event as well next year. Then start taking them out of all the others, because there are people EVERYWHERE that dislike them. Some of them dislike them due to their race, others simply because they have other favs, and some who are tired of the bullsh*t their parents keep running their mouths about. If it was racist, then why the hell did the rest of the crowd cheer on Venus? Think before you speak Williams'! Damn Venus and Serena have more brains than their parents... at least they don't start playing the race card like their parents, and don't mention stuff like this. :rolleyes:

While I agree it was bad sportsmanship for how Serena called the trainer, after she had sat there for the full 90 second change over and lastly decided to call them out. It was a sorta "Serena Scam" and the total injury time out took 9 minutes... We know how impatent crowds are, especially added in the hot Australian sun, and the fact they were cheering on Kim... Who dates Lleyton. Hell, I hope the Williams' never play Fed Cup... Will all those country induced "boos" be racially motivated as well? It's just plain and simple HOGWASH! :mad:

Note to Williams fans, so I don't get attacked. If you notice I didn't insult the sisters only their parents... I think they'd do better and be more liked if they told Oracene and Richard to mind their business and took care of things on their own.

barmaid
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:30 PM
Obviously Oracene has changed her name since her recent divorce from Richard (and who wouldn't :confused: ) but why oh! why do black people still cry "racism"whenever they hear a descending remark!:confused: The Australian people were mostly rooting for Kim Clijsters....she had just lost a heart-breaking match after being in command 5-1....their disappointment was obvious....and the "boo's" ensued....just the fact that Serena was an unpopular winner.....Serena the opponent, the player.....not the "black-American"...that had nothing to do with it. Get a grip people...why does the reason always have to be a black/white issue!! :(



barmaid:wavey:

kiwifan
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:40 PM
I have been to Aussie and met many Aussie's from various walks of life (I was in Melbourne and Sydney but Aussies from all over were there at the time).

I found that most of the fellas (and Sheilas) I met were quite nice and many of them were very honest in telling me that there are racial issues in Aussie. The funny thing was that most of them would always point the finger at other regions and "rat out" racial incidents in the other regions.

As for the indigenous people of Aussie, IMO White Aussies have a strange relationship regarding them, guilt for doing them wrong (I think worse than US did the Indians: there truly was an effort to make them "disappear entirely" through genocide and forced cultural integration) yet a bit of reverence for things Indigenous (becuase IMO it gives them an identity (sp) free of the English as the former Penal Colony, thus decendants of the "scum of the Brits" stereotype).

I think they are more fond of the idea of the Aboriginie (sp) in the outback than they are the reality of the Aborigine next door; very similar to the race relations in the US, in general.

Individuals are individuals and I believe that they booed because they were assholes and not because of the color of Serena's skin.

I will add that the color of her skin may have led some of the assholes not to "let go" of the injury timeout delay.

Some people with agendas will express them when they percieve that the mob is behind them. The guy who shouted "Get on with it" for example.

A former team mate of mine told me about a rugby tournament he played in where an Aussie team stomped the shit out of him and called him a "bloody Kafir" which is a South African racial slur and it took two guys from the sidelines attacking the Aussies to get them to stop.

Bottom line yes there are racists in Australia and there were probably racists in the crowd, but there are racists everywhere and I think rooting for Kim was the over riding factor in the crowd's asinine behavior. This wasn't Indian Wells revisisted.

Oracene is entitled to her opinion as is everyone else; if she feels uncomfortable with the crowd that's her call. They crowd did suck regardless of the reason why.

Just an aside, I really wish you people who are obsessing over every word the Williams family says (especially the moron who posted being outraged by McDonalds comments) would step away from your computer for a couple of days.

Go outside and make some friends.

Get a life!!!

God knows if I didn't have to endure 4 friggin' hours of pre-game before the SuperBowl, I wouldn't be here right now...

spokenword73
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:58 PM
Oracene sits in the stands during matches, and perhaps she hears racial comments from some of the fans, the way Richard said he heard the n-word at Indian Wells. :eek:
Oh yeah right, try telling YOUR parents to "shut up"?? The sisters have more respect for their Mom and Pop!

BigTennisFan
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:32 PM
Maybe it's my VCR but at the end of the match, I really did not think that the booing was that bad.

And there were really a relatively small number of people who booed.

It was a FAR cry from the foolishness of the crowd at IW.:(

TSequoia01
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:46 PM
No one can really know if the response was motivated by race or not. As far as the crowd rooting for a Black woman in the finals (Venus), if they were going to root for anyone it certainly was not going to be Serena. I wonder who they would have rooted for if Serena was not on the other side. Not that it matters. Venus and Serena left with over 1.2 million dollars, now that is what really counts. I agree that Black people have to get over not being truly accepted by some whites, that's just the way it is. Anyone who feels that Venus' and Serena's treatment by tennis crowds is the same as other tennisplayers is either in denial, blind, or just plain liars. Trust me folks it is not. But again, what does it matter? :cool:

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:50 PM
Omg you idiots are really stupid for making excuses at Brandy
s opinion!

Belguim radio host just made a racial slur after Serena beat Kim and you're sittin on your computers thinking that NOT ONE FREAKIN' person in that crowd had those same kind of feelings and views that those two BELGUIOM men had? Yeah right.

GREAT staement Oracene. I believe her as she is in the stands and hears and sees things that we don't.

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:51 PM
I really like Oracene and I think she is partly but she should not have taken a dig at Australia in that way. :sad: It's painful for her as a mother and for Williams fans to admit that the Williams are disliked by many, many people around the world and it's mostly because of their attitude. Their fans just don't want to admit it.

anton
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:55 PM
I think Brandi can voice her opinion even if it is right or wrong.

treufreund
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Of course she can voice her opinion but people are gonna react to it. In this case I am sure that she is partly right. But she should have been above slamming the entire country. She is smarter than that. Probably she was reacting out of anger but I do wonder if deep down she realizes that her daughters do come across as arrogant and unpleasant. Maybe her making fun of them in the stands is her way of dealing with that in a lighthearted way. I still like Oracene. :)

Blogger Dives
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Omg you idiots are really stupid for making excuses at Brandy
s opinion!

Belguim radio host just made a racial slur after Serena beat Kim and you're sittin on your computers thinking that NOT ONE FREAKIN' person in that crowd had those same kind of feelings and views that those two BELGUIOM men had? Yeah right.

GREAT staement Oracene. I believe her as she is in the stands and hears and sees things that we don't.

Some of it might have been racially motivated, some of it not. Some of it might have been because they are bigger fans of Kim. Nobody knows, and I'm sure to each his own there, had their different reason for booing.

I wouldn't take Oracene's word as the devine thing in what's right. You after all wouldn't believe her if she said the sky was falling would you? She was sitting in ONE SMALL section of the crowd, I don't think she nor anyone else has ears to hear why everyone was booing. It was different for everyone.

As for the Aussie's being racist, that's crazy. If that was the case wouldn't half of them not gone to the final? Demanded a refund or so on? Let alone, you forget that they were cheering for Venus in that final. Did she automatically change her color for the final? :confused: All I'm saying is if they were ALL RACISTS then why the hell did they cheer for Venus? And even cheer for both Venus and Serena earlier in the tournament. Oracene can't hear everything - If she can, can we call Guiness Book of Records to test out that set of ears she has? ;)

Shane54
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:20 PM
Yes how dare them Aussies boo!!:mad:
They have got be racist, its got to be about race!!!:mad:
It certainly isnt b/c Kim Clijsters is like a daughter to Australia and she is dating OZ top male player
It is certainly not b/c of the extended time out
People wake up and realize that we must fight this
Anytime a white person boos IT HAS TO BE B/C they are racist!!
I am outraged!! LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOO!!


SARCASM ROCKS!!!

Averylove
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:36 PM
Note to Williams fans, so I don't get attacked. If you notice I didn't insult the sisters only their parents... I think they'd do better and be more liked if they told Oracene and Richard to mind their business and took care of things on their own. :mad:

How in the World does this comment get away from us above ?:mad:

First off idiot Oracene's sits right there in the stands and is right there where the action is ! When the parents can hear them in the stands yelling racial slurs who are we to argue with that :confused: ?

This Comment is just as Racist as any I ever seen for the simple fact he does not know whats its like to be in a Black persons shoes ! Just like when Jackie Robinson broke the "color Barrier"
in 1947 I wonder what the fans was saying everytime Jackie came out to bat ? and if his parents where in the stands listening to what was being said ! White people always are in denial about racism it never phase's them ! Just like in South Africa before so called independence in 1993 " whites there was saying there in no such thing of being racist , same with Austrailia ' they are some of the most Racist people on the planet ! lets not forget they whipe out the intire population of Tasmania " and the Aboringinal peoples over there ! so spare us the bull shit "
you may be sick and tired of Black people seeing racism and we as black people are sick and tired of your Cracker Mentality " that is prevalent in your society ! When a Black man jogs with a hood on he is a thug when a white jogs with a hood on he is a Joger"
Perception is the Key ! I hope the "Joker that wrote this doesn't work for Law enforcement LOL ! I can see him know stoping Black mortorists while DWB (drivin while Black ):mad:

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:39 PM
Omg man some of you people in here look silly.
Now Brandy didn't think 100% of those fans were booing with racial undertones. Come on now, act right.

What is wrong with some of you people? Why does it bother you or bug you when someone states their opinions on racism? Do you folks seriously think not one or two people were even booing cause of their racist views? Basically you are claiming that not one person had bad intentions in that crowd? lol How naive are you folks in here? Alot of peole on the WTA board said they heard a few idiots in the crowd act silly and made racial remarks to Jelena Kostanic and some other players.

Hell one can look at the OZ draw and see that OZ people were hoping and pleading that Kim would take the title. They wanted her to beat a Sista soo bad. Ha Ha it didnt happen that way. ANYWAYyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Blogger Dives I find your statement laughable. Do you read what you write? I don't think the ENTIRE crowd was booing cause of race. LMAO.. you all really need to read. You ran on some rampage and made no sense.

Hi, Joy:)Dredlock girl.

Congrats to Oracene for "SPEAKING HER MIND"like other people and players that I know... Hmm let's see. Those that speak their mind are as follows:

Jennifer
hingis
Venus
Serena
Iva
maggie
Mary
Kimmie
Justine

Oh and Brandy:) I agree with her as well.

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:43 PM
maybe i'm batty but I don't see anywhere in that article where Oracene is quoted as saying the Aussie people as a whole or the crowd for that matter was "racists"?? Now maybe the New York Times article is more specific. :confused: :confused:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
I really like Oracene and I think she is partly but she should not have taken a dig at Australia in that way. :sad: It's painful for her as a mother and for Williams fans to admit that the Williams are disliked by many, many people around the world and it's mostly because of their attitude. Their fans just don't want to admit it.

What attitude???? I am still amazed that people say this. How can anyone say that they have any worst attitude than most people in sports. Sorry but I cant get used to that. Treufreund, you need to admitt that they are hated by "people like you" because they are winners who are revolutionizing a white sport. They dont come up with bullshit to explaine away their racial background like Tiger Woods. They own their blackness, they dont make excuses for being as good as they are, they dont thank anyone for letting them be a part of tennis, they dont shuck and jive, the are bright, the completley make their own path, they are assertive, they are not timid, they never give up, they are not intimidated by anyone....Now, if this translate to having bad attitudes, well I wish that all humanity had terrible attitudes.

I agree that the comments are completly out of character for Oracene. I am sure that it must have really affected Serena. Imagine sitting in a stadium amongst 15,000 people who for the most part hate your child. It cant be easy. However, I think Americans are much worst than anyother country on earth when it comes to racism. Venus and Serena should be used to it but we have to remember that they are still very young and have feeling like any of us.

Also, what can you expect from a group of p

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:06 AM
And to the Americans on here condeming Oracen, all I have to say to you guys is YOU NEED TO LOOK IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD.

Shane54
Jan 27th, 2003, 01:17 AM
To the Williams sisters' defense: I am still trying to figure out what attitude? Honestly, they are self confident but arent alot of athletes today? I have never heard them take pot shots at other players unlike Hingis, Capriati, and Dokic. I think when they first came out they were very arrogant but they seemed to have matured.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 27th, 2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Shane54
To the Williams sisters' defense: I am still trying to figure out what attitude? Honestly, they are self confident but arent alot of athletes today? I have never heard them take pot shots at other players unlike Hingis, Capriati, and Dokic. I think when they first came out they were very arrogant but they seemed to have matured.

Exactly...:D

Blogger Dives
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:21 AM
Averylove I won't even waste my time replying to you. I think you showed your true side in all this. I've got better things to do tonight, like celebrate my hometown Bucs winning the Super Bowl! :p

juggler
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:47 AM
Ms Price said: "I guess it's because the environment of tennis has mostly been white. Especially over here in a culture where you see that people have conquered other people who were indigenous to this country.

How does Ms Price explain then the tremendous support that Chanda Rubin receives in Australia. She is a very popular player with the Australian crowd, and last i checked she was black.

Williams was booed
a) because she took that injury timeout
b) because they were supporting Kim and she was the underdog
c) many Australians dont like the Williams' perceived arrogance

Replace Chanda in that exact same situation, and im telling you now she would not have been booed.

It was the person being booed, not the race

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:06 AM
Well said, juggler.

Note that Oracene did cast a slur on the whole Australian culture. Those who denied this obviously can't read. And you wonder why there is a reaction. :rolleyes:

I am now waiting for the usual condescending comments about Chanda that come from some Williams fans.

schnyder lover
Jan 27th, 2003, 04:01 AM
there are racists in every crowd in every major sporting event, and every country has at some point demonstrated some form of racism (whether that be internally or externally). The British who arrived in Australia in 1788 were from one of the most powerful empires in the world, and to compare the inhumane actions of these people to the Australian population today is ridiculous. as an australian i am amashed of what happened in these days, and what in reality occured up until the 1950s with "the stolen generation", but i think that some of you should read this week's article by that tennis writer for sports illustrated, because i think this shows what most decent australian's are about. unfortunately racial comments are always made, and that is very sad.

persond
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:27 AM
:D About any of you silly ass poster on a frigging message board and what the hell you think of her!!!! I keep telling you assholes who have no idea about racism what the hell it means to an African American. Especially, an African American of the age of Ms. Price and myself. We fucking know racism. You assholes bitching about it haven't a fucking clue?? And, all these attempts to white wash it don't make it not so!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And, by the way, she has a right to express herself as she sees fit, and it was her opinion that the crowd was racist. If it looks like a damn duck and walks like a damn duck, then, guess what??? It's a fucking duck!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:31 AM
Well, this latest rant from persond shows the standard we are up against here doesn't it?

This persond person has totally lost it. It could almost be one of Steam's patented foaming-at-the-mouth posts.

persond
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by jouissant
Well, this latest rant from persond shows the standard we are up against here doesn't it?

This persond person has totally lost it. It could almost be one of Steam's patented foaming-at-the-mouth posts.



The only thing I've lost, my dear friend, is my tolerance of the ignorant posters that frequent this board, and their lack of understanding about common psycho-social issues and how they affect todays older citizens!!! The know-it alls, that know absolutely fucking nothing!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by jouissant
Well, this latest rant from persond shows the standard we are up against here doesn't it?

This persond person has totally lost it. It could almost be one of Steam's patented foaming-at-the-mouth posts.

:rolleyes:

persond
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:39 AM
What you call "ranting", I much rather refer to as "mild discourse"!!!:angel: :angel:

2284
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by persond
:D About any of you silly ass poster on a frigging message board and what the hell you think of her!!!! I keep telling you assholes who have no idea about racism what the hell it means to an African American. Especially, an African American of the age of Ms. Price and myself. We fucking know racism. You assholes bitching about it haven't a fucking clue?? And, all these attempts to white wash it don't make it not so!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And, by the way, she has a right to express herself as she sees fit, and it was her opinion that the crowd was racist. If it looks like a damn duck and walks like a damn duck, then, guess what??? It's a fucking duck!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You're right. As Australians we know nothing about what it's like to be African American...which is why there is no racism towards you here. I'm not going to deny that there is racism in Australia, but as an American you would be welcomed and respected here. In this country, most of us really don't give a fuck about Venus or Serena's skin colour. Many of us don't even notice it. We just recognise them as bloody good tennis players. An Australian crowd would have booed just about anyone (Lleyton included)who took a long injury time out at that point in a match

danielrosario
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:05 AM
Whoa, now onwards, let's all keep our mouths shut and let certain players get away with any form of bad behaviour and gamesmanship -- after all, we're all soooo terrified of being branded racist! :rolleyes:

And when Hingis served underarm against Graf at the French Open final some years ago and people booed Hingis, perhaps all the non-whites who booed her were racist too.

Now I wonder what I'll be called in the posts to follow ... :rolleyes:

And to think I clicked on this thread only coz I though it said "boobs" instead of "boos"

2284
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:12 AM
lol! It seems that most people here were only interested in Serena's boobs. Can we stop the race crap threads?

persond
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:13 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by danielrosario


Now I wonder what I'll be called in the posts to follow ... :rolleyes:




Absolutely fucking nothing!!!!:) :) :) :)

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:21 AM
No, what juggler said (for example) was "mild discourse". What you said, persond, was the gibbering and capering of a fool. The same goes for the offensive nonsense that leslie posted.

danielrosario
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by persond
[QUOTE]

Absolutely fucking nothing!!!!:) :) :) :)


Wow! This ploy really works ;)

JohnBoy
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:33 AM
It is a shame that the serious issue of Racism in sport degenerates into an us and them argument. The fact is, is that Williams sisters on the tour live by that motto and anything that goes against them is decried as racism. As an Australian i regret the many faults that my country has but on this matter Oracene is wrong. Serena was bood due to the fact that many sections of the crowd felt that the injury break was used as a tactic. It was also the case that many in the crowd were supporting the underdog - that being Kim. The Williams sisters have been treated with kid gloves by the American media who in many cases have been to afraid to question them when necessary. Many of America's sports stars live by hipe. Although that hipe is justified for the Williams sisters, Australian's won't put up with that crap. And as stated by My fellow Aussie "juggler "Chanda Rubin is a huge crowd favourite. As a tennis follower for over a decade who has been to many Australian Open's I know from experience howpopular the African American players have been in Australian ie Zina Garrison-Jackson, Lori McNeil and My favourite Malivai Washington. Yes there is racism in Australian just as there is in any other country but just because a player receives criticism or boos does not mean that racism is involved. It's like me criticising Martina Navratilova and being accused of Homophobia, which would be hard for the fact that I am gay myself. Finally I am not standing up for the spectators that bood ( which was wrong) i am just stating the facts as they are.

Viva
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:35 AM
Once again us Aussies are the worst human beings on earth. Hrmm now which country is trying to start a war? :rolleyes:

Anyway.... I was there. People around me were booing when the injury break went for ages and that it seemed to be used as a tactic. We were growing restless and Kim didn't seem too happy from where we were sitting. Kim was in the lead and we wanted to see her finish and win. The crowd was very pro-kim and people around me were saying stuff like, "Go Aussie" and not saying much about Serena at all. When Kim started to break down the crowd was growing frustrated with Kim and a little resentful of Serena because of our only "Aussie" about to be knocked out. What you have to understand is the Aussie crowd is so desperate for an Australian to win here.

Also no one wanted another Williams final. As you can see - Venus didn't receive hostility. Serena did. When Venus played no Williams was in the final at that point when she won the crowd didn't ant to see yet another Williams final because that scenario is getting boring. Also since the Williams' arrived on the scene they have been described as aloof, rude and arrogant. Mayeb they arenot like that anymore but people find it hard to warm to them for that factor. Getting a reputation is hard to break later on (ask Lleyton Hewitt who people hate for his 'cocky and brash attitude' and Pete Sampras who is still described as boring).

Oh by the way, if race is such an issue then why was the crowd so polite to Younes El Aynaoui when he defeated Lleyton Hewitt huh? Even he said that the Aussie crowd was, "Surprisingly polite" noting that in other parts of the world he has been booed in the past when playing a home player. Strange - didn't seem to be racism there. Hrmmmmm.

Get over it.

Viva
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by danielrosario
Whoa, now onwards, let's all keep our mouths shut and let certain players get away with any form of bad behaviour and gamesmanship -- after all, we're all soooo terrified of being branded racist! :rolleyes:

And when Hingis served underarm against Graf at the French Open final some years ago and people booed Hingis, perhaps all the non-whites who booed her were racist too.

Now I wonder what I'll be called in the posts to follow ... :rolleyes:

And to think I clicked on this thread only coz I though it said "boobs" instead of "boos"

Lol!!! :worship:

Viva
Jan 27th, 2003, 07:04 AM
Yes I am posting again.

A journalist was commenting on a match between Serena and Daniilidou. Anyway, the crowd was cheering overwhelmingly for Serena. Constant "Go Serena" cheers were being heard and then a guy obviosuly felt her opponent wasn't getting enough support so he yelled out, "Go the other chick"... a nice humourous example of the Australian crowds support for Serena Williams.

Good day.

:)

Greenout
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:55 AM
I watched the entire match live from the hotel
at the Andaman in Datai Bay, Malaysia. The negative vibes
weren't from the injury timeout- IT was during the ENTIRE
MATCH. Serena's the number 1 player in the world for
christsake; I don't recall anyone since Hingis vs Graf at
Roland Garros 1999 get such a cold response everytime
a winner was hit. I can't say if there the crowd was letting
their inner racism comeout or just really so pro-Kim; but they
weren't exactly loving Serena or enjoying her.

Does anyone remember the shouts of "DOUBLE FAULT"
every time Serena served in the early portion of the match?
That was incredibly rude. I cannot imagine someone yelling
that to Lindsay or Monica- yet Serena seemed to be an
easy target.

Again can't say what the personal motivations or reasons
the crowd were not into Serena; but I can see how
Oracene could feel that it was racial.

Viva
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:27 AM
^^^ Ummm I was in the crowd and I never heard people yelling out "double fault" in the earlier portion of the match.

2284
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Greenout
I watched the entire match live from the hotel
at the Andaman in Datai Bay, Malaysia. The negative vibes
weren't from the injury timeout- IT was during the ENTIRE
MATCH. Serena's the number 1 player in the world for
christsake; I don't recall anyone since Hingis vs Graf at
Roland Garros 1999 get such a cold response everytime
a winner was hit. I can't say if there the crowd was letting
their inner racism comeout or just really so pro-Kim; but they
weren't exactly loving Serena or enjoying her.

Does anyone remember the shouts of "DOUBLE FAULT"
every time Serena served in the early portion of the match?
That was incredibly rude. I cannot imagine someone yelling
that to Lindsay or Monica- yet Serena seemed to be an
easy target.

Again can't say what the personal motivations or reasons
the crowd were not into Serena; but I can see how
Oracene could feel that it was racial.

Maybe the crowd were just bored because they were expecting Serena to play better. That 1st set was a shocker!...but the 3rd sort of made up for it.

2284
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Viva
Once again us Aussies are the worst human beings on earth. Hrmm now which country is trying to start a war? :rolleyes:


:p Good point

Hulet
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:52 AM
Please note that oracene didn't single out only the australian crowd's reaction to her daughters success in her interview. I think there is more detail in about the interview in the following article from International Herald Tribune:
http://www.iht.com/articles/84683.html

For Williams sisters, are racism and sexism in the crowd?
Christopher Clarey International Herald Tribune
Monday, January 27, 2003
MELBOURNE Venus and Serena Williams had won their sixth Grand Slam doubles title several hours before and were already preparing to face each other in a record fourth consecutive Grand Slam singles final.
.
But their mother and coach, Oracene Price, who has reverted to her maiden name since her divorce from Richard Williams last year, sounded more disappointed than elated - not by her daughters' play or achievements but by the public reaction to their dominance in Australia and elsewhere.
.
The Williams sisters had never played in a final at the Australian Open, yet there was a palpable sense of resistance in the stands of Melbourne Park to the idea of a fourth straight all-Williams final in a major, with Serena's and Venus's victories greeted in generally subdued fashion by the crowd, even with occasional boos. Price believes there is more behind the ambivalence than just a craving for something new and a desire to support the underdog, which at this stage in women's tennis, is anyone not named Williams.
.
"They seem to accept Tiger a little better than the girls, you know what I'm saying?" she said, referring to the world's dominant golfer, Tiger Woods. "He's a man." She added, "They don't need women showing so much strength or how powerful they can be or how they can think."
.
Price said she believed that there was also a racial component at work, suggesting that there were no complaints when Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert were dominating women's tennis to much the same degree as her daughters do now.
.
"I don't quite understand that, because I've seen in the past with the same people getting into the same position, and it wasn't that big an issue," she said of public resistance to all-Williams finals.
.
"I don't know really what the deal on that is," she said. "I guess it's because the environment of tennis has mostly been white. Especially over here in a culture where you see that people have conquered other people who were indigenous to this country. And the same thing in the United States. And I think it's a bit of arrogance, more or less - who has to be on top and who has to be on the bottom."
.
Asked if she sensed that attitude in the stadium here, Price said she did. "Especially when you have an audience this gloomy," she said. "I guess they feel you can get to the semifinals but you don't need to win it. We'll give you a hand then and go, 'Yeah. Great game.' But we don't want you on top. I think that's just the arrogance of the people, and you know I think they need to grow up."
.
Price's reaction was triggered in part by the crowd's behavior in Rod Laver Arena during Serena's remarkable comeback from two match points down in the semifinals to defeat Kim Clijsters of Belgium. Clijsters, a sunny 19-year-old who dates the Australian tennis star Lleyton Hewitt, is increasingly popular in Australia and was clearly the sentimental favorite during the match. But the crowd's favoritism intensified after Serena, who has won the last three Grand Slam singles titles, took two consecutive injury time-outs when trailing,1-2, in the final set to have blisters treated on her right foot.
.
Rebound Ace, the rubberized hardcourt surface used in Melbourne, is particularly punishing on players' feet, more so when the temperatures rise. One of Serena's blisters developed in her three-set, first-round match against Emilie Loit of France and had to be lanced afterward. It began bothering her again in the Clijsters match, and according to Price, was adversely affecting her movement. The punctured blister certainly looked painful when television cameraman showed footage of it as the trainer unwrapped the tape on Serena's right foot. But the crowd could not see that image, and many of the fans in Rod Laver Arena interpreted her consecutive injury time-outs as an attempt to break Clijsters's rhythm.
.
There was whistling and booing when Serena returned to the court, and the crowd roared when Serena missed a return on the first point and the next point had to be replayed after spectators shouted during the rally.
.
Clijsters and her coach, Marc Dehous, both said they had no problem with Serena's seeking treatment at that stage of the match. Clijsters, after all, did win the next three games to take a 5-1 lead before Serena raised her game and intensity. But Dehous said he understood the booing. Serena has acquired a reputation on tour for making excuses in defeat, and Dehous alluded to her comments after Clijsters beat her in the final of last year's WTA Tour Championships in Los Angeles.
.
"Even after the loss in the Masters, Serena said she was feeling tired, but she only played 13 tournaments last year," Dehous said. "So maybe they are a little bit the cause of that themselves," he said of the sisters and the booing, "because of what they say and how they act."
.
Asked what might could the public's attitude, Price said, "I don't think anything can change it. Because people have to change here," she said, pointing to her heart. "And if they don't change there, there's nothing you can do about it. We just have to live with it. We've been living with it all our lives, so it's no big deal."

Blogger Dives
Jan 27th, 2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Greenout
Does anyone remember the shouts of "DOUBLE FAULT"
every time Serena served in the early portion of the match?
That was incredibly rude. I cannot imagine someone yelling
that to Lindsay or Monica- yet Serena seemed to be an
easy target.

Again can't say what the personal motivations or reasons
the crowd were not into Serena; but I can see how
Oracene could feel that it was racial.

I remember there a few years ago, when Hingis was booed anytime she played. At the US Open, at the French, Wimbledon... Several times they would call for her to "double fault". So it's not just happening against players of color. I think it happens to all dominate players.

Midnite Surfer
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:08 PM
They cheered for Venus because she was the lesser of two evils. The greater evil being Serena winning the slam and joining precious Margaret Court in the realm of the greats. Especially after taking out their favorite girl Kimmie.

Aloysius
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Such childish nonsense, both in the crowd at the Aussie Open and on this messageboard.

Scorch
Jan 27th, 2003, 04:02 PM
I too opened up this thread expesting to see an article on Serena's jugs.

Having read the thread I would like to point out my observation that in comparison to the original article the second article sheds more light on what Oracene said during her interview. We rely so much on how a person's comments are presented to us in the media. We have all seen, on numerous occasions, player's comments manipulated to the advantage of the media. Whilst this is by no means the most sensational example of comments being taken out of context and made to stand out artificially, I would like to have been there at the interview to hear EVERYTHING Oracene said, the tone of her voice, her bodylanguage, EVERYTHING. Until then any argument is limited imo. Having seen Oracene interviewed on TV (which admittedly can be edited) I would be amazed if she intended offence to all Australians. It seems as though she is rationalising the actions of what she perceives are a racist minority. She, like all of us, is entitled to her opinion.

I have been in partisan crowds before (Henman vs. Ferreira, Wimbledon last year is the one that sticks out in my mind) and people get carried away and imo give little thought to their actions other than they want one to win and the other to lose. On that day Ferreira was the bad guy. He was booed by the crowd for (politely) disputing a line call. His double faults were cheered, as were his mistakes. Perhaps worst of all some people attempted to put him off inbetween 1st and 2nd serves. It sucked to be him that day (there was a sizeable group of South Africans cheering for him that day though). Now partisan crowds (I think we can say that the Aussie crowd was a partisan crowd) are unfair and will jump on anything to make the ‘bad guy’s’ life harder. Some act in such a way just because they want someone to win badly. Some, not all but some, will take all their prejudices and where possible pin them onto the opponent. It happens. If you think it happened to your daughter and you were asked about it, you should speak up, like Oracene did.

harloo
Jan 27th, 2003, 05:11 PM
Face it, some the Aussie crowd were so bitter and angry that Serena just trounced Kim they couldn't contain themselves. Injury timeout or not, Kim was so close of doing the unthinkable. However she couldn't hold up, and SOME in the Aussie crowds pulled their sheets off. LOL Oh, she was so close, and that percieved arrogant, brash, flashy "Williams girl" shattered their agenda.

What Oracene says is true. Sorry, but some of you posters on this board understands nothing about race. She was there and she knew what the deal was. LOL

First Lleyton, and now their "adopted kimmy" both wen't down in defeat. The injury timeout was a good excuse for them to show their true feelings and it showed. But not once did they stop to think that in the third set Serena played unbelivable tennis, and it was something that Kim couldn't counter. Even the commentators said so themselves.

In the end, people can be BITTER because it doesn't really matter. Serena has the trophy and will go down in history as one of the greats, while everyone else will be sitting up bitching and moaning about how Kim should of won that match in the semis.

Well, SHE DIDN'T! People need to get over it!

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 27th, 2003, 08:37 PM
LMAO. The Aussies on this thread have patiently explained what motivates Australian tennis crowds. The whining, bitching and moaning is all coming from Williams fans, most of whom (it seems) are Americans who have never even been here and do not understand the Australian culture.

Is it really that hard to understand that the Aussie favouritism towards the underdog, especially when it's an honorary Aussie like our beloved Kim, goes deep in our psyche?

I'm sorry, but the Williams sisters are not disliked here on racial grounds or any other grounds. They are actually respected and popular and will sometimes be cheered for. But, on any given occasion, there is always a likelihood that the crowd will be behind their opponents who are always going to be the underdogs. That is also why the crowd supported Venus over Serena.

You Americans who think you know us better than we know ourselves are coming across as both ignorant and arrogant. You are doing nothing to help the image of your country...nor the image of Williams fans on this board. You are only damaging your own credibility for arguments on other threads where you may have a stronger case about mistreatment of your faves. I, for one, am now much more sceptical than I used to be about everything you guys say. That's a pity because I have a track record of supporting you when I've thought the sisters, or you, have been criticised unfairly.

Asdfqwer
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:02 PM
maybe she's right, but saying stuff like that to the media unfortunately wont help the situation much

Lisbeth
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:32 PM
I don't think the lovely Oracene was criticising Aussies as such, just lumping us in with the exact same racial problems of the USA. This is not quite accurate, but she's entitled to her opinion and it seems to me to be a well thought out and non-reactionary opinion, even if it doesn't quite fit the reality of Australia. We do have some racist idiots, of course, like just about every country, but it's not the social norm by any means.

Perhaps she should talk to Marion Jones' mum who was busily tellig every media outlet she could find after the Olympics that as a black lady she had never been treated with more respect or lack of discrimination than in Aus, and that she was overwhelmed by the support Australians gave her daughter even when they played Aussies. Or Cathy Freeman or Evonne Goolagong Cawler who are "black" Aussies and about the most popular sports stars we've ever had.

As for Kim, people here got to know her because of Lleyton, or more specifically because she spends time here with Lleyton, but I think her popularity has taken on its own dimension now. She also has very much the good-nature, competitive but laid back personality we adore in sportspeople (see also, Pat Rafter, Ian Thorpe and Cathy Freeman, for example). Serena is a fine young woman and I don't think many Aussies actively dislike her, but her attitude does maybe not "mesh" so well with the Aussie ideal. I think that's also why Venus seems a little more popular here actually.

swade
Jan 27th, 2003, 10:56 PM
What is it with Australians.

Most Australians I speak to love to pretend that racism is not a major factor in their country.

The current political climate in Oz suggests deep rooted racism and xeneophobia in large swathes of the public.Immigrants and Asylum seekers seem to be the root of all evils in Oz.I've never bought into the affable "g'day mate" myth Australia likes to promote for itself.Some countries are worse in terms of xenephobia and racism, but Australia is pretty bad.

And to say Australians don't give a damn about colour in sport because they support their token "abo" winner like Freeman and an inoffesnsive black girl with no chance of actually winning the slam like Chanda is complete rubbish.

For Australians to pretend like this stuff is a rarity in Aussie sport in the same fortnight Darren Lehmann, the Australian international cricketer was banned for 5 games for racial abuse towards black players shows gumption.In one article I read, it was claimed that the ICC (international cricket comitee) had recived most complaints about racial slurs during cricket matches from Australian supporters and players.The Sri Lankan players whom Lehmann abused claimed his statement was not out of character for Aussie players or crowds and they had been suffering that sort of treatment in relative silence for years.

If your cricket players and supporters act like this (and I'm waiting for the convinient excuses and denials of this one.Or maybe those dirty Sri Lankans are just "crying" racism over the poor innocent Australian cricket players and supporters) why find it so hard to believe that SOME Aussie tennis fans are similarly inclined to treat threatening "black" opposition the same way.

By the way, I've been to Australia and know plenty about it's politics and social climate, so I think my opinion is fairly informed.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:16 PM
LMAO again. I just knew (and predicted) that we'd soon get a condescending comment about Chanda. :bounce:

As for generalising from Darren Lehmann, give me a break. No one has said there is *no* racism in Australian sport. We've had this furphy already on another thread.

Get it right: Oracene attacked the entire Australian culture as fundamentally racist in an unfair, ignorant, arrogant, cowardly, offensive and unjustified way, linking it to a total misreading of the crowd's attitude to Serena. The Aussies here have explained that attitude again and again. The unwillingness of people from other countries, especially the US (which has plenty of racial problems of its own, I dare say) to accept it is itself prejudiced and offensive.

Well at least swade has been here so he or she has some qualification to talk about this, unlike most of you...even if it's an incredibly naive view being expressed about the relationship between the undoubted Australian xenophobia regarding Middle Eastern illegal immigrants and the attitude that Australian tennis crowds might take to black American athletes playing local favourites such as Kim.

Anyway, GO CHANDA! :kiss:

Lisbeth
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:25 PM
No, most Australians acknowledge that there is racism in Australia. I absolutely do admit that. But two points: it isn't directed at people of African descent, because we have no historical issue with them (remember that moron from NBC who said we must be racist because we didn't have many Africans here - yeah and we're just so ashamed of never getting around to IMPORTING them as slave labour) and isn't, as far as I have ever seen, manifested in crowds booing at tennis matches or indeed most other sports, those which I have attended anyway.

There is certainly an argument that racism or at least ethnofanaticism is rife in cricket crowds, from just about every country involved (including the "white" countries against each other, and the Sri Lankans, Indians and Pakistanis against each other!) but for some reason it seems to stay on the field/in the stadium rather than violently erupting in other areas of life. Possibly because after five days of cricket everyone's asleep!

Lisbeth
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:31 PM
By the way, what may not have made the international news is that the current climate against Lebanese immigrants stems from several recent pack rapes of young "white" girls by gangs of middle eastern boys who told them during their terrible ordeals that they deserved to be raped because they were "Aussie sluts" who had to be raped "Lebbo style". Who's the racist there?

Now I have many male lebanese friends and goodness know most of them are very respectful to women in their own way and horrified by these attacks, but when regularly confronted by that kind reverse racism from a minority you can understand why Mr Joe Average, father of a 14 yr old girl, might be a bit antsy about too many more people of that background.

And these boys have been convicted in a fair court by the way, some of them were even proud of it, so this is not rumour or racist framing.

2284
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:32 PM
Note to all posters: Read all of Jouissant and Number1Kim's posts in this thread. I can't be bothered posting anything else because I would just be repeating everything they have already posted

Lisbeth
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:33 PM
And one more thing, the Sri Lankans actually attended the hearing and argued for Lehmann not to be suspended, probably because although they have certainly had these insults before, they also admit ithat they also insult other teams in their own way regularly.

Averylove
Jan 28th, 2003, 01:04 AM
White People always have a problem with " I'm Black and Im proud athletes such as Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, The Williams Sisters, etc,etc They will always precieve them to be "arrogant"
by the white establishment ! As long as Black Athletes are precive as a threat this will always be the case ! Any time a Black athlete have an Arura of confidence you got problems comming from the white press and White people ! They will use a non threating Black to make a point notice "Chanda Rubin" is there Trump card to say were not racist ! Joe Frazier was another comparied to Muhammad Ali who was precived as the White Man's champion in 1971 to Ali , and we all know the History of Jack Johnson in the early part of the century ! As long as black athletes stay or look humble white flokes will flock to them ! But if you see anything that resembles "Black Pride " they will be against them ! alla the Sisters and Richard Williams " so its no suprise to me at all !
They will look for little things and Use Serena style of Dress or them Not givin their opponents credit to they hit the damn ball to hard etc , etc, you can read right thru them !

Huricanes are Unpredictable , But White Flokes are Predictable!!!

Blogger Dives
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by Averylove
White People always have a problem with " I'm Black and Im proud athletes such as Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, The Williams Sisters, etc,etc They will always precieve them to be "arrogant"
by the white establishment ! As long as Black Athletes are precive as a threat this will always be the case ! Any time a Black athlete have an Arura of confidence you got problems comming from the white press and White people ! They will use a non threating Black to make a point notice "Chanda Rubin" is there Trump card to say were not racist ! Joe Frazier was another comparied to Muhammad Ali who was precived as the White Man's champion in 1971 to Ali , and we all know the History of Jack Johnson in the early part of the century ! As long as black athletes stay or look humble white flokes will flock to them ! But if you see anything that resembles "Black Pride " they will be against them ! alla the Sisters and Richard Williams " so its no suprise to me at all !
They will look for little things and Use Serena style of Dress or them Not givin their opponents credit to they hit the damn ball to hard etc , etc, you can read right thru them !

Huricanes are Unpredictable , But White Flokes are Predictable!!!

ROTFLMFAO!

This is classic, Averylove you clearly have too much time and hate on your hands. If you think the US is so bad, how about you move to another country? Let's see if it's any better.

And at long last, a real solid proof that there is reverse racism. "I hate all white people" is being screamed at the top of his lungs in this post. And you think you are the only ones to get prejudice comments made about you. Grow up Avery. This world owes you nothing, the same as it owes all of us nothing. If you dislike white people so much why don't you go somewhere were there are less of us? :p

Averylove AKA Richard Williams .... Now we know what he does with his time when he's not at the tournaments. :o

2284
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by Averylove
White People always have a problem with " I'm Black and Im proud athletes such as Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, The Williams Sisters, etc,etc They will always precieve them to be "arrogant"
by the white establishment ! As long as Black Athletes are precive as a threat this will always be the case ! Any time a Black athlete have an Arura of confidence you got problems comming from the white press and White people ! They will use a non threating Black to make a point notice "Chanda Rubin" is there Trump card to say were not racist ! Joe Frazier was another comparied to Muhammad Ali who was precived as the White Man's champion in 1971 to Ali , and we all know the History of Jack Johnson in the early part of the century ! As long as black athletes stay or look humble white flokes will flock to them ! But if you see anything that resembles "Black Pride " they will be against them ! alla the Sisters and Richard Williams " so its no suprise to me at all !
They will look for little things and Use Serena style of Dress or them Not givin their opponents credit to they hit the damn ball to hard etc , etc, you can read right thru them !

Huricanes are Unpredictable , But White Flokes are Predictable!!!

Serena has absolutely hideous taste in clothing, but I still like her, so :p

Maybe you should find factual evidence before making accusations

danielrosario
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:47 AM
I'm really amused at the way many pple in this thread assume they are the ultimate experts on racism :) They begin by first denouncing everything everybody else says and then launch into a tirade that contains as many generalisations as all the others.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by Averylove

Huricanes are Unpredictable , But White Flokes are Predictable!!!

Well, I am not predictable, even though I am a sort of red-grey colour from the hot Australian sun, because I don't follow anyone else's "line". :angel: But you are sooooooooooooo predictable, buddy.

Averylove
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:39 AM
And at long last, a real solid proof that there is reverse racism. "I hate all white people" is being screamed at the top of his lungs in this post. And you think you are the only ones to get prejudice comments made about you. Grow up Avery. This world owes you nothing, the same as it owes all of us nothing. If you dislike white people so much why don't you go somewhere were there are less of us?


Ok What this Joker is saying is that African people do not need to remember the African Middle Passage for over 400 years we should forget Jim Crows Laws only 35 years ago ! we should forget what happen to Jackie Robinson in 1947 , The bombing of 1964 that killed 4 Black chrildren by "white Christians mind you " forget the raping of Africa by Cecil Rhodes and many other Conquers of Africa I should just put this behind me and act like white People are staints with Hallo's around there heads !
we should forget the Tusgekee Experiment where Black men was giving Syphlis by the US Goverment for over 40 years to see how the disease can Spread ! we should just forget that ! we should as Africans Americans or in Diaspora just walk around and forget that Aids was created in a labortory in 60's to whipe out the whole African Continent ! and Black people ! no we should just sing with people who have Murderd more people in one century !

The above comment tells me this Man has a problem with Black People taking a stand and i happen to be one of those with Strong Black Persona and is not in denial about it ! But to bring Richard Williams into it says to Me, when strong Black men stand up Whites Like him have a problem and I glad that you do ! I know what side of the fence your on and I will defend mines !

Blogger Dives
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:54 AM
ROTFLMFAO @ Averylove

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen. Hey buddy, stop living in the past, this isn't the same generation if was 35+ years ago. You must be reallllllllly outdated. Everyone on this board has figured out how big of an idiot you are. If things are so bad for you, then I suggest you move or something... Clearly if where you live still treats you like the mid1900s you really should move for your own good. AIDS was created in a lab to wipe out blacks, OMG you are so full of it. Really, if you believe this sh*t you need to get your head checked. ATTENTION here's one of those screwballs that goes off the deep end and kills a couple dozen people. The government is against him, it's against us all... run and hide, get a table, wait build a bomb shelter. :rolleyes:

Averylove - as predictable an idiot as there ever has been! We might not get the weather right, but it doesn't take long to figure out dummies like you. :p

BTW, I'm not a man... Stop stating I am one.

Asmus
Jan 28th, 2003, 05:12 AM
RACISM STILL EXISTS...

especially today. It isn't so much directed against black people as much as before; now much of it is directed against people of Arab descent. Examples shortly after September 11th included the burning of a Hindu temple (yes, Hindu) and much anti-Arab sentiment, including many bad claims against Islam. Consider the fact that Timothy McVeigh killed for the same reasons as Osama bin Laden, but were any more judgments made about redneck Americans? Was there any crackdown on these bigoted organizations? I don't think so. It is this sort of differentiation that exists in society today, and it is something that must be acknowledged and stopped.

Averylove
Jan 28th, 2003, 05:13 AM
That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen. Hey buddy, stop living in the past, this isn't the same generation if was 35+ years ago. You must be reallllllllly outdated. Everyone on this board has figured out how big of an idiot you are. If things are so bad for you, then I suggest you move or something... Clearly if where you live still treats you like the mid1900s you really should move for your own good.


Racism still alive Just by the comments above this " Joker " says this isn't the same generation of 35 yrs ago hmm ? well lets see Africans still denied fair housing in South Africa , Africans still denied Housing in the USA what a concoted theory ! Africans denied Education watch the upcomming battle in the Siupreme court about the Michigan Case .... Afrimative Action is being dismantled in the US.... Blacks are deined Heath care in the US and in South africa at an alarming rate ... we don't have to look for 35years ago we can look today ! Blacks more likely to be pulled over on the highway than whites in rural area's DWB ' driving while black ! or WWB walking while Black ! Racism is still alive in Hiring practices by white corporations Study find that Blacks with Black sounding names VS Whites was 5 times more likly to have there Resume thrown in the Garbage pail than whites! Names like Jamel , Tyrone, Kenya , Kisha , Lashawn, etc was thrown out when compared to Jim, Karen, Melissa, etc this was a recent Harvard study done in the USA.... so don't tell me race doesn't matters I for one will never forget ! and keep Malcom X 's Dream alive when dealing with the Devil !

Asmus
Jan 28th, 2003, 05:17 AM
Thanks for the info Averylove

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 06:23 AM
Avery, you are fighting a losing battle. Pleople like Blogger or whatever are what they are and there is nothing any of us can do. It is sad but all we can do is pray for them...:sad:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:52 AM
Averylove, your posts would seem slightly less bizarre, though no more relevant to the subject matter of the thread, if you learned to use the "quote" function. :rolleyes:

Blogger Dives
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Averylove
Racism still alive Just by the comments above this " Joker " says this isn't the same generation of 35 yrs ago hmm ? well lets see Africans still denied fair housing in South Africa , Africans still denied Housing in the USA what a concoted theory ! Africans denied Education watch the upcomming battle in the Siupreme court about the Michigan Case .... Afrimative Action is being dismantled in the US.... Blacks are deined Heath care in the US and in South africa at an alarming rate ... we don't have to look for 35years ago we can look today ! Blacks more likely to be pulled over on the highway than whites in rural area's DWB ' driving while black ! or WWB walking while Black ! Racism is still alive in Hiring practices by white corporations Study find that Blacks with Black sounding names VS Whites was 5 times more likly to have there Resume thrown in the Garbage pail than whites! Names like Jamel , Tyrone, Kenya , Kisha , Lashawn, etc was thrown out when compared to Jim, Karen, Melissa, etc this was a recent Harvard study done in the USA.... so don't tell me race doesn't matters I for one will never forget ! and keep Malcom X 's Dream alive when dealing with the Devil !

Yeah that own little "Joker" quote was what I stole from your post, you called me that:
Originally posted by Averylove

Ok What this Joker is saying is that African people do not need to remember the African Middle Passage for over 400 years we should forget Jim Crows Laws only 35 years ago !
Quit acting like you aren't a racist yourself. Those comments you made, prove you're a bigger racist b*stard than anyone on this board. Read your post. You aren't the only ones being descriminated against!

Cry me a f*cking river man, and grow up! God forbid the government takes away "affirmative action".... Then do you want to tell me why some blacks get accepted to colleges, and some get jobs ahead of more qualified people of other races? (Don't say it doesn't happen, I can give you 1000x's of true real life examples to prove it.) The action has been misused many times, by BOTHsides. I guess Bush won't get re-elected? :rolleyes:

I know plenty of "whities" that can't get housing, adecent education, jobs and medical care as well... It's not just your problem anymore. And the US isn't South America, what a poor example to try to open your post with - Geographical lession: it's TWO DIFFERENT countries. And you might want to start correcting some of your spelling and gramical errors. Like I stated before, if the USA is so bad to you: Why don't you move? Canada, Europe, all sorts of other places since the USA isn't meeting your expectations. :rolleyes: I'd like to talk to you sometimes, so much hate built up inside of someone, and full of half true but mostly rubbish facts, you'd be good for some humor. :D

Blogger Dives
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:43 PM
Averylove this world doesn't owe you, I or anyone else: ANYTHING

Halardfan
Jan 28th, 2003, 02:13 PM
Lets try to find a measure of common ground, put the extremes to one side...

What I beleive to be true...

1. Anyone chanting against or booing the Williams sisters becuase they are black is scum, no if's and's why or buts...

2. I do think such people in the given case were the minority of the minority...that a range of factors were in play, many of which had greater weight than the race issue...a long delay, against an adopted home fave, in a close, huge match at a key point, were the dominant facts in the case I believe...it would be naive to think no one booing was racist, but wrong to suggest everyone booing was.

3. Those people who are racist, whatever their skin colour (I do beleive its not exclusive to white people.), are answerable for their own miserable actions...I don't believe in collective guilt, black people being blamed for the actions of other black people (as is often the case), nor white people blamed for actions of other white people. We are responsible for our own actions and words, nothing more, nothing less. Or we SHOULD be.

4. Affirmative action is a good, neccesary thing....now maybe we we can work to a world where it can be dispensed with, where its just no longer needed, we can all hope for that day, work for it...but for now, sadly it is neccessary, to open doors that would be closed, to right a system that is wrong.

TSequoia01
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:39 PM
Affirmative action is no longer a Black issue but a feminist issue. White men are trying to negate an advantage of White women. I realize it was created as a remedy for hundreds of years of slavery and jim crow laws enacted by government. But as soon as it was enacted it was circumvented by bringing in all types of folks who never suffered from such injustice. Avery, trying to educate folks on inequities will not work. They understand the history but just happen to agree with the policies because they benefit. They like it that way. It makes little sense to look to people who initiated the problems for solutions. Venus and Serena set good examples on how to succeed. Be decent, hardworking, and loving people. But you don't have to be apologetic. In additon, use ones energies to be successfully focused on the present and future, while never forgetting the past. :cool:

Averylove
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:09 PM
know plenty of "whities" that can't get housing, adecent education, jobs and medical care as well... It's not just your problem anymore. And the US isn't South America, what a poor example to try to open your post with - Geographical lession: it's TWO DIFFERENT countries:(

When is South America Related to South Africa ? I never mentioned South America in my comments why is South America being brought up ?:confused:

South Africa is in Africa last Time I check so this Joker is Illiterate on Geography must of flunk the National Geographics World test not long ago !:(

Second when is African Americans getting into 95& institutions hurting white folkes ?

This Joker is trying to put a Name on me that won't stick ! ANYWAY i DO KNOW WHAT THE DEVIL LOOKS LIKE AND Blogger Dives FITS THE DISCRIPTION REAL WELL !:mad:

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Here Avery!! Just a little backup to what you were saying about this level playing field we have in the good USA. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/01/14/name.bias.ap/index.html

Study: It helps to have a 'white' name
Tuesday, January 14, 2003 Posted: 8:07 PM EST (0107 GMT)


CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- It helps to have a white-sounding first name when looking for work, a new study has found.

Resumes with white-sounding first names elicited 50 percent more responses than ones with black-sounding names, according to a study by professors at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The professors sent about 5,000 resumes in response to want ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune. They found that the "white" applicants they created received one response -- a call, letter or e-mail -- for every 10 resumes mailed, while "black" applicants with equal credentials received one response for every 15 resumes sent.

The study authors, including University of Chicago associate professor of economics Marianne Bertrand, said the results can solely be attributed to name manipulation.

"Our results so far suggest that there is a substantial amount of discrimination in the job recruiting process," they wrote.

The professors analyzed birth certificates in coming up with what names to use. The white names included Neil, Brett, Greg, Emily, Anne and Jill. Some of the black names used were Tamika, Ebony, Aisha, Rasheed, Kareem and Tyrone.

Companies that purported to be equal opportunity employers were no more likely to respond to black resumes than other businesses, the study found.

Carolyn Nordstrom, president of Chicago United, a group that seeks to increase corporate diversity, said the study shows the need to educate those that make hiring decisions.

"We like to believe that this has changed, but this is evidence that it hasn't," she said.

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:06 PM
heres a question how many people know white people who weren't the most qualified but got the job because who their folks know? Now that's ok and an acceptable form of Afirmative Action but god forbid someone else get a preference. :rolleyes:

Little rich kids can get into whatever school they want cause of who daddy knows but god forbid anyone else get a helping hand.

I mean we could go into tracking and why poor schools don't educate kids the way they should. People should be outraged at why Afirmative Action is needed but they don't because they want it to stay an uneven playing field, imo.

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:12 PM
Here's another one. Our brown brothers are catching hell as well.

Hispanics More Likely than Blacks to Face Housing Discrimination, Study Says
Source: Knight Ridder Washington Bureau, 11/08/2002
Author(s): Tony Pugh
AN: 2W60097139988
Database: Newspaper Source
Persistent Link to this Article: http://search.epnet.com/direct.asp?an=2W60097139988&db=nfh
Choose Language inglés/español anglais/français Englisch/Deutsch
* * *
Hispanics More Likely than Blacks to Face Housing Discrimination, Study Says



Nov. 8--WASHINGTON -- Hispanics, the nation's fastest-growing ethnic minority, are now more likely than blacks to face discrimination in their search for homes and apartments, the Department of Housing and Urban Development reported Thursday.

While housing discrimination against minorities overall declined significantly between 1989 and 2000, it declined less for Hispanic home-buyers and not at all for Hispanic renters, the HUD study found.

The study compared the experiences of black, white and Hispanic testers who posed as apartment seekers and home-buyers in 20 U.S. metropolitan areas. The testers responded to the same housing advertisements within hours of each other. Their financial backgrounds, job histories and other factors were the same; only their ethnicity varied.

Investigators found that rental agents discriminated against 25 percent of Hispanic renters. Among Hispanic home-buyers dealing with sales agents, the rate was 20 percent. Discrimination was measured by several indicators: whether advertised units or comparable units were as available to minority as to white testers, whether the units could be inspected, whether the agents encouraged or discouraged the testers and whether agents provided equal information on financing.

By these indicators, the percentage of black renters who faced discrimination was 22 percent. Among black home-buyers it was 17 percent.

"Compared to white customers, African-Americans and Hispanics are less likely to be given information about housing units, receive fewer opportunities to inspect housing, obtain less help with financing and are less likely to be shown homes in predominantly white or non-Hispanic neighborhoods," said Margery Turner, director of the Metro Center at the Urban Institute, which conducted the study under a HUD contract.

Compared with 1989, when HUD last conducted the same tests, bias against blacks and Hispanics was down roughly 25 percent, HUD Secretary Mel Martinez said.

"These results illustrate that we are making efforts but there is still work to be done," he said.

Charles Kamasaki, vice president of La Raza, the nation's largest Hispanic advocacy group, said housing discrimination affected all aspects of family life.

"It's devastating. Anytime you have a huge portion of the housing market that's closed to you, it limits your choices," such as where your children go to school, he said.

The findings, based on 4,600 paired tests, showed that whites received better treatment from rental and sales agents. Hispanics and blacks were more likely than whites to be shown homes or apartments in predominantly nonwhite neighborhoods, the study found.

Among metropolitan areas tested, black home-buyers faced the greatest discrimination in the Birmingham, Ala., and Austin, Texas, areas, Turner said. Black renters faced the greatest discrimination in the Atlanta area, Turner said.

Bias against Hispanic home-buyers was greatest in the Austin area, she said. Discrimination against Hispanic renters was about the same in most areas tested.

More tests are planned to study discrimination against Asians, Native Americans and people with disabilities. The research is used to target HUD's fair-housing education and enforcement efforts. The agency provides $20 million in grants to state, local, public and private fair housing groups to educate the public and housing industry about discrimination laws.


HOUSING REPORT:

To obtain a copy of the report, go to www.huduser.org

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:16 PM
25% of hispanics and 22% of blacks looking for housing get discriminated against that is just ridiculous!!! :eek:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:29 PM
This thread is no longer about alleged racism in Australian tennis crowds or the Australian culture. It is now about racism in the USA - a completely different issue.

On that basis, I am happy to leave it. Please don't say things that force me to come back here. :wavey:

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:37 PM
Florida Job Bias Rampant, Study Finds
Source: Palm Beach Post, The, 08/03/2002
Author(s): Amy Martinez
AN: 2W61708687817
Database: Newspaper Source
Persistent Link to this Article: http://search.epnet.com/direct.asp?an=2W61708687817&db=nfh
Choose Language inglés/español anglais/français Englisch/Deutsch
* * *
Florida Job Bias Rampant, Study Finds



Aug. 3--Job discrimination remains a rampant problem in Florida even as more women and minorities enter the work force, according to a study released this week by two professors at New Jersey's Rutgers School of Law.

The husband-and-wife team of Alfred and Ruth Blumrosen, extrapolating from federal data on about 7,000 large and midsize businesses, found that nearly 81,000 minorities and women were affected by job discrimination in Florida during 1999.

They concluded that minorities seeking employment opportunities in Florida were at risk of discrimination 28 percent of the time, while women were at risk one-fifth of the time.

The study, paid for by the Ford Foundation, was based on information collected by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from businesses with more than 50 employees.

The Blumrosens, who were instrumental in setting up the EEOC in 1965, looked at a company's employment of women and minorities in each of nine job categories.

They said a company discriminated if its employment of women or minorities was significantly below the norm for other companies in the same industry, in the same metropolitan area.

Asians, who stood a 35 percent chance of being discriminated against, were the most likely victims, followed by blacks at 31 percent, Hispanics at 29 percent, and women at 19 percent, the study said.

"Over the years, you get a larger and larger pool of women and minorities who move into the labor force, and if employers don't take advantage of that labor pool, they're going to look bad," Al Blumrosen said from his home in New York.

The study, which looked at job discrimination in all 50 states, also found 1,353 "hard-core" discriminators affecting 31,772 workers. The Blumrosens said their employment of women and minorities was so far below the norm that there was a 99 percent certainty it wasn't by chance.

The names of the companies were kept confidential by the EEOC and not known to the Blumrosens, who argue that the government ought to let companies know when their employment of minorities and women lags behind. Companies often do not know until they're dragged into court by a disgruntled worker, the Blumrosens said.

Florida compared well against other states in the study. Florida's discrimination risk to women was the seventh-lowest nationally, while its risk to minorities was 12th-lowest.

The study counted 166 businesses that discriminate against minorities and 117 that discriminate against women in Palm Beach County. Also, it found 24 that discriminate against minorities and 17 that discriminate against women in Martin and St. Lucie counties.

Allan Weitzman, a Boca Raton lawyer who defends employers in job discrimination suits, questioned the study's conclusions, saying a company should not be judged solely by the race and gender of its staff. Its job applicants, he said, also should be scrutinized.

"You can't just look at employment numbers and conclude there's discrimination if you don't know how many women or minorities applied for the job," Weitzman said. "I've never seen anyone say, 'Your company discriminates because it has fewer blacks or women than the company across the street.' If that's discrimination, I don't see it."

Discrimination shows up not just in hiring, but also in poor retention of minorities and women who face hostility at work, said Stuart plaintiffs' lawyer C.K. Hoffler, adding that "numbers really do speak volumes."

She and partner Willie Gary are suing Microsoft, Coca-Cola and MBNA for alleged race discrimination and are considering similar suits against at least five other corporations.

"I don't think it's that people are more litigious. I think it's that people are fed up. It's gotten to the point where it's too much," Hoffler said. "Unless there's a dramatic change in this country, this is going to be a very vibrant practice for us. Some companies just don't get it unless they're forced to get it."

amy_martinez@pbpost.com


hmm, if 35% of Asians and 31% of Blacks get discriminated against in the job process in Florida and they are the twelfth lowest well then how many are being discriminated against in the worst state??? :eek: :eek:

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by jouissant
This thread is no longer about alleged racism in Australian tennis crowds or the Australian culture. It is now about racism in the USA - a completely different issue.

On that basis, I am happy to leave it. Please don't say things that force me to come back here. :wavey:

I can find articles about Australia and racism if you want me to? :D

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:04 PM
lol. Rocketta that is the last thing I need. Besides, unless you have read a lot of the work of Robert Manne, Raimond Gaita, Henry Reynolds, Keith Windschuttle, etc, etc, i.e. the serious Australian public intellectuals who write (pro and con) about the issues here, you are not qualified to take part in a discussion of Australian racial issues at all. Most of this material cannot be found on the internet: it is in books and journals. You can assume that I have read a lot of it and have written something about it myself.

No, keep debating the American situation. I have made my point and am happy to leave it at that.

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by jouissant
lol. Rocketta that is the last thing I need. Besides, unless you have read a lot of the work of Robert Manne, Raimond Gaita, Henry Reynolds, Keith Windschuttle, etc, etc, i.e. the serious Australian public intellectuals who write (pro and con) about the issues here, you are not qualified to take part in a discussion of Australian racial issues at all. Most of this material cannot be found on the internet: it is in books and journals. You can assume that I have read a lot of it and have written something about it myself.

No, keep debating the American situation. I have made my point and am happy to leave it at that.

oh you have so little faith in my resources! :p I wouldn't dream of trying to debate that I have enough problems living in my own country. :D I did read an interesting article about those Aboriginal sisters that walked a 1000 (or was it 100?)miles to get home from the orphanage or whatever they called it. That wasn't a happy story. :(

2284
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:39 PM
:rolleyes: Can you believe that this discussion started because Serena had a few blisters?!

...and as for the Australian racism thing, you can read heaps that people have written on the issues, but unfortunately most of it is written from a white perspective

Lisbeth
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:51 PM
LOL, please let's NOT have a debate about Windschuttle and friends!!

The film/book was probably Rabbit Proof Fence - I agree, a sad story and well told, and probably at least partly true for many Aborigines stolen from their families. But there's even a second side to that particular story - welfare records which show that those three particular girls were not being properly cared for or fed but "running around wild" with no adults apparently in sight. Who knows which detail is true and what's not. (And by the way, I provide free professional services to Aboriginal people as part of my job and have worked with several of the stolen generation so basically, I'm 100% on their side. What happened what atrocious, when kids were actually taken from good families just because they were part Aboriginal. Just pointing out the problems with reported history!)

I'm sorry that blacks and hispanics have so many problems in the USA, by the way.

Viva
Jan 29th, 2003, 07:06 AM
^^^ Stop posting now. You're bringing it back to Australia. You shouldn't have said anything in the first place...

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 20th, 2003, 06:39 PM
LOL, please let's NOT have a debate about Windschuttle and friends!!

The film/book was probably Rabbit Proof Fence - I agree, a sad story and well told, and probably at least partly true for many Aborigines stolen from their families. But there's even a second side to that particular story - welfare records which show that those three particular girls were not being properly cared for or fed but "running around wild" with no adults apparently in sight. Who knows which detail is true and what's not. (And by the way, I provide free professional services to Aboriginal people as part of my job and have worked with several of the stolen generation so basically, I'm 100% on their side. What happened what atrocious, when kids were actually taken from good families just because they were part Aboriginal. Just pointing out the problems with reported history!)

I'm sorry that blacks and hispanics have so many problems in the USA, by the way.


That movie was so fabulous! WhERE IS THE OSCAR FOR THAT MOVIE!!!

maccardel
Mar 20th, 2003, 09:50 PM
You have to be an expert to know that Australia is ruled by people who much like Americans raped and stole from the lands indigenous people....?????????????????????????????? :rolleyes:


I agree with you topshotta:

I done give up on these nincompoops up in here...so sarcastic cos whenever someone tells them something from a first hand experience, they never understand or they come back with some ignant, yes ignant statement.....Oracene has been travelling with her daughters for years now and she should have some kinda assesment of the tennis environment in australia. These posters who want to believe that the world is all peachy clean and rosy red need to get a grip.

And God forbid you hit them with facts, then they come back and criticize your vocabulary or your ethnic heritage. I done give up on some of these people.....no clue. You could talk til the cows come home and they will never get it.....

maccardel
Mar 20th, 2003, 09:51 PM
Obviously Oracene has changed her name since her recent divorce from Richard (and who wouldn't :confused: ) but why oh! why do black people still cry "racism"whenever they hear a descending remark!:confused: The Australian people were mostly rooting for Kim Clijsters....she had just lost a heart-breaking match after being in command 5-1....their disappointment was obvious....and the "boo's" ensued....just the fact that Serena was an unpopular winner.....Serena the opponent, the player.....not the "black-American"...that had nothing to do with it. Get a grip people...why does the reason always have to be a black/white issue!! :(



barmaid:wavey:


perfect example