PDA

View Full Version : Well, oddly, this doesn't hurt nearly as much as the other three


Volcana
Jan 25th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Am I happy? No.
Did I watch the whole match standing up? Yes.

I hate seeing Venus lose, even to Serena. But Venus actually made Serena play the kind of match Venus needs for Venus to win. She's going to have to do something about her 2nd serve, regardless, or get a lot more first serves in. But Serena will wina battle of trying to hit winners with every shot. She's smaller, more compact, and has slightly better footwork. 'Short' legs help.

But Venus got this match at least four times to very advantageous places, despite Serena's advantage on serve.
Venus served for the 1st set at 5-4.
Venus had the opening to get the service break at 4-4.
She didn't convert.
But she got the match to those places.
She fought herslef and her sister and clearly quite a lot of emotion.

It's also possible this is the first crowd Venus has ever played in front of in a final that was actually on her side, which may have been a little wierd.

I would have liked to see Venus slice a little more, but I really liked the high top-spinning groundies. On Rebound Ace, they bounce high enough that Serena couldn't quite kill them. I think Venus could have approached more against Serena's forehands, but even though they were landing onthe service line, those forehands had pace. And it's not like Venus has years of experience playing approach shots off those.

All in all, I feel pretty good about this. Venus still hasn't figured out how to discipline herself vs Serena, but this match showed real progress and real resolve.

Hate the result
Pleased with the progress.

BTW, you notice that a lot of those forehand errors come when Venus tries to make shots by opening up her racket face a little. It's trying to apply finesse to a power shot, and it a) not easy, and b) easy to miss if you're off even a little.

Also, I noticed that when she throws her toss high, the ball usually goes in. When the toss is low, it goes into the net.

VEnus has a chance at RG.

CJ07
Jan 25th, 2003, 04:36 PM
I think that this shows progress, but I think V needs to play one more tournament with Serena besides Miami to be ready to go at RG

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:08 PM
I don't really like the matchup on hardcourt. SHe shold play her at Charleston, and maybe Berlin. That's a lot of the same tournaments for them though.

And I keep remembering the first game of that match. Venus looked so disinterested. Turns out she was pretty damn interested but that first game, ugh.

I can't help that she's my favorite. I just have to learn to live withthese things.

selesrules
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:26 PM
I think it hurts less because you got used to it and now you have a reaction closer to

bah... she lost again :rolleyes: been there done that, i'm now kind of used to it :rolleyes:

instead of

omg... she lost to Serena :eek: :sad: omg this is so new and shocking :eek: :sad: like the first few times.

jean_genie
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Am I happy? No.
Did I watch the whole match standing up? Yes.

I hate seeing Venus lose, even to Serena. But Venus actually made Serena play the kind of match Venus needs for Venus to win. She's going to have to do something about her 2nd serve, regardless, or get a lot more first serves in. But Serena will wina battle of trying to hit winners with every shot. She's smaller, more compact, and has slightly better footwork. 'Short' legs help.

But Venus got this match at least four times to very advantageous places, despite Serena's advantage on serve.
Venus served for the 1st set at 5-4.
Venus had the opening to get the service break at 4-4.
She didn't convert.
But she got the match to those places.
She fought herslef and her sister and clearly quite a lot of emotion.

It's also possible this is the first crowd Venus has ever played in front of in a final that was actually on her side, which may have been a little wierd.

I would have liked to see Venus slice a little more, but I really liked the high top-spinning groundies. On Rebound Ace, they bounce high enough that Serena couldn't quite kill them. I think Venus could have approached more against Serena's forehands, but even though they were landing onthe service line, those forehands had pace. And it's not like Venus has years of experience playing approach shots off those.

All in all, I feel pretty good about this. Venus still hasn't figured out how to discipline herself vs Serena, but this match showed real progress and real resolve.

Hate the result
Pleased with the progress.

BTW, you notice that a lot of those forehand errors come when Venus tries to make shots by opening up her racket face a little. It's trying to apply finesse to a power shot, and it a) not easy, and b) easy to miss if you're off even a little.

Also, I noticed that when she throws her toss high, the ball usually goes in. When the toss is low, it goes into the net.

VEnus has a chance at RG.

Me too:sad: I agree with all of the above.

Randy H
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:38 PM
I enjoyed the match and was hoping Venus would come through with the win, but she did play well, and it is encouraging to see her play such good tennis without even playing any warmups.

On the other hand, though Serena narrowly edged her, I have a feeling she may not have allowed it to be so close if the stakes weren't as high.

Serena was definitely feeling nervous, and was coming up with some tentative shots in the third. If she hadn't been playing for the "Serena Slam", I don't think we would have seen that.

Infiniti2001
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:42 PM
What Volcana said...


I still Believe :)

¤CharlDa¤
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:46 PM
And so do I!!!! Venus really showed yesterday that she had all the tools to beat little sis'!!! More first serve in that first set and whe would have won it!!!!!!

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:51 PM
selesrules - Venus doesn't lose enough for me to get used to it. I'm never USED it. But the last three times, I didn't like HOW Venus played. I didn't like her choices, I didn't like her tactics, I didn't like her strategy, I didn't like her attitude.

I liked all those things in the final. (Well, the attitude could use work.) I think, having had time to reflect, that this one hurts less because Venus got the match SHE wanted. She didn't win it, but that was because of her choices on her forehand, and her 2nd serve. NOT because Serena rolled over her and Venus barely fought back. Venus got that match on her terms, and didn't let Serena mount one of those five or six game orgies of destruction she lays on the rest of the tour.

Losses happen. I can live with this one. This one makes me look forward to Roland Garros with anticipation, rather than trepidation.

MLF
Jan 25th, 2003, 07:55 PM
I don't know. I felt worse for Venus than the other three for some reason. Yes it was a more positive result but last year I felt was Serena's season to shine. I had hoped Venus would turn it around at the start of 2003 just to spice it up a bit.

I've always been a Venus fan. Seles is my favourite player but then comes Lucic, Venus and Capriati for me. I like Serena but have never rooted for her in the same way as for Venus. What disappointed me was Venus played 'shy'. She didn't step up to the plate, she backed off I felt. True Serena doesn't give you many balls to attack but I feel that if another player had hit a lot of the balls Serena produced last night Venus would have been stepping up and crunching them more. I feel positive about RG for Venus. She probably needs a Serena-free grand slam final to set her alight again. Then it could definitely heat up a lot.

Venus Forever
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:04 PM
I don't know, but I definitely think this one was the hardest for ME. At least the other one's you can say that Serena was just too good, but to have Venus come so close and just collapse at the end is just so hurtful to ME. If it was straights I wouldn't be soo upset, but since it was three and close in the fourth, I think it hurt more.

GO VENUS!!

STEAMROLL THE REST OF THE YEAR!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:09 PM
I'm feeling a lot better about it today, but I always felt that Venus has what it takes to defeat Serena. The second serve thing and the forehand errors are only technicalities that can be corrected with a couple of weeks of good hard practice. I just wish that Venus can find that edge again. The full determination and fighting spirit, IMO, is what she's lacking when she plays Serena as opposed to someone else. I was totally expecting her to aggressively attack the net and force Serena to pass her just as she'd done with Justine. Instead, she went backwards instead of forward in the finals. She had plenty of chances to come in, but she did not take advantage of them. I agree with Volcano to a certain degree that at times, she seemed disinterested. Sometimes during break opportunities. And that's sad :sad:

TSequoia01
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:17 PM
I felt Venus for most of the match played very well. Her 1st Serve was excellent, better than I can remember. She did not get her first doublefault until deep into the match. When she came to net she won virtually every point. Her forehand is what really gave her misery. Whenever Serena needed a point badly, to that forehand side she would stay until she got the error. Work on the forehand Vee it will really even up things. :cool:

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:10 PM
Actually, that's true. Her FIRST serve was a real weapon.

Shane54
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:19 PM
Yes, Venus needs to improve her serve. That was the difference some people are saying. But one can look at it this way also. Serena was NOT taking advantage of Venus' second serve like usual, and was making silly errors. From my stand point it was Serena's match to win or lose. Serena was actual making better returns of V's first serve.

CJ07
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:20 PM
well i'll get back to you once i watch the match

Robbie.
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:22 PM
Idon't think Venus has improved at all in the last 3 years and that is sad. In fact I think her forehand has perhaps reverted to the 1999 version when Hingis use to relentlessly exploit it in their tight matches. She is spraying so many balls off that wing. That shot not only cost her in the final, but even Hantuchova and Henin were exploiting it. Her second serve is appaling and cracks under pressure (alla 1999). I think the serve has a little to do with confidence as well.

Has Venus become complacent or what?
Yes, since 2000, her improved consistency has enabled her to beat vitually every player on the tour. But since 2002 that best is not good enough to beat Serena. She hasn't seemed to have woken up to this. Maybe she needs an independant coach?

One thing I don't understand is how Serena ended up with such smooth technically sound groundstrokes and serve, and Venus ended up with a really kinky second serve and forehand when they were both taught out of the same textbook? :confused: (Venus' backhand is the best in the game though IMO )

i think thismatch was closer not only because Venus was sick of losing, but also because Serena wasn't herself for the enitre tournament. Compared to Wimby and Flushing Meadow last year she was much more erratic.

I really don't see much evidence of Venus going back to the drawing board on these weaknesses. We don't want to see her going the way of another stubborn champion.

Venus Forever
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:23 PM
This might sound strange, but I actually think that Venus can improve the first serve. She just hits it very hard, but I think the placement can be a lot better, especially the one down the middle. She doesn't really hit it on the T, she mostly hits it a foot away, which is why Serena got many back, because it wasn't close enough.

The keys for Venus are: PLACEMENT, SECOND SERVE DEPTH [maybe some more speed as well], and the FOREHAND.

1jackson2001
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:27 PM
To me it hurt about just as much..maybe a bit more though cuz you can see the pain in Venus's face every time she makes a silly error.

Kart
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:16 AM
Of course Venus has a chance at Roland Garros - but not as good a one as she had here. Venus still looks to me as if she lacks belief on the clay courts (cf. Amelia island and RG finals).

CJ07
Jan 26th, 2003, 02:39 AM
The only real on the T serve i saw was the second serve ace she served to save a match point at the Open (that was classic)