View Full Version : Why is Venus' serve off EVERY time she plays Serena?

Jan 25th, 2003, 02:58 AM
another mind boggling question

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 25th, 2003, 02:59 AM
because her second serve sucks

Jan 25th, 2003, 03:00 AM
Serena intimidates Venus serve everytime she steps on court.;)

Justin rarely serves double faults but against any of the Williams, she becomes a doubles fault queen.;)

Jan 25th, 2003, 03:01 AM
hmmm...yet we've seen players like Loit, Clijsters, Daniilidou all jump all over Serena's second serve. But not Venus. And Venus' first serve has been on fire the entire event, yet shockingly, it's off in the finals.

It's another tank

Blogger Dives
Jan 25th, 2003, 03:14 AM
Suspicion arises. :o
I'll say nothing more. :drool:

Jan 25th, 2003, 03:17 AM
It's not off...

Venus is making lots of aces.. Are you watching the mATCH?

Jan 25th, 2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by Becool
It's not off...

Venus is making lots of aces.. Are you watching the mATCH?

yes I am...

Jan 25th, 2003, 03:35 AM
You obviously aren't because if venus served like this against any other player she'd kill them anything over 60% first serves for venus against anyone else is almost an automatic win

Jan 25th, 2003, 04:20 AM
Its because Serena's return is lethal.

Jan 26th, 2003, 07:47 AM
Selesfan has it right. I was watching my tape of the final and there were several serves of Venus that Serena just CLOCKED. One in particular Mary said was served at 116. Serena sent it back to Venus like if was a 65 mph puffball.

Not a lot of other women can do that.

Also, I was amazed by some of the gets they were making against each other. Since their court coverage is so good, you almost have to see them against other players to realize how good they are.

Even though they were getting to "impossible" shots, they were doing it so routinely that one almost considers it a normal thing that anyone on the tour can do.


Jan 26th, 2003, 08:41 AM
Rena's return is stunning, almost Agassi-like. The fact that Venus served at almost 60% and was still troubled is as good an indication as any of the quality of Rena's return game.

This is no accident. Remember that Rena spent a week or two before the US Open over at Nick Bollettieri's academy, just to work on her return game.

Folks, this was a woman who had just won both the French and Wimbledon. Stepping out from the comfortable Williams fold to perfect her returns.

But there is also a definite dip in Venus' mental game. While serving at 5-4 in the 1st set and 4-5 in the 3rd, she responded to pressure in a sub-par manner. She needs to get that mental edge back, and will do it only if she starts doing as much off-court work as her sister does.

King Satan
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:44 AM
conspiracy conspiracy!! :D

Jan 26th, 2003, 01:25 PM
Venus' serve wasn't off this match. The real question is, how come no one but Serena can abuse Venus's sub-80 mph 2nd serve. She hits them just as soft against everyone else, but only Serena kills it. That puts pressure on Venus to make better 2nd serves, hence more DFs.

It's not that Venus' serve is off. It's that no one else kills it.

Why is THAT?

Jan 26th, 2003, 01:32 PM
Venus' serve was slightly worse than it was against other opponents. That was because Serena has such a great return, Venus was pressured into going for more on the 2nd serve. When she did go for more, she got double faults, so instead she tried to be safe and just get it in. Hence the slow second serve. Her second serve is bad against any other opponent, but there isnt that kind of pressure on the return.

Jan 26th, 2003, 01:46 PM
only serena, lindsay, hingis, and jen seem to have the balls to shoot down venus' 2nd serve. i think other players fear Venus may raise her level against them to retaliate. Venus's game is mental, When players hit winners against her , watch what she does. When players attack her second serve, watch what she does. She plays a mental game with them during the match, makes them feel inferior by bullying the point so they know that if she wanted to crush them at will , that she could do just that. im surprised none of these brilliant commentators have commented on this trait of Venus'. She even does it against serena but not alot. Its liek she wants to get into rallies to shwo off, but if she doesnt win the point, she send s a message with her groundies and serve. its brilliant mental strategy to make opponents feel as if nothing is in their hands. Tell me im not the only one who sees this aspect of Venus' game

Jan 26th, 2003, 04:01 PM
You're not the only one, tennisfan, and the lack of this bully-factor in her matches against Rena is the key. Actually, Rena bullies Venus a bit.

Still, I think V is gradually coming to grips with what she needs to do. A big first step would be to design her tour schedule regardless of her sister's. Enough with this let's-avoid/protect-each-other nonsense. It's obvious Rena hardly cares. And who knows? A few more meetings outside the slams could set V up nicely for those major wins she's been pining for.

Jan 26th, 2003, 05:09 PM
I agree that Venus served about as well in the final as ahe had all tournament. And I thought she serves as well this tournament as she has in the past year. But her second serve is not good enough. Serena was returning serve like a madwoman. Look at the match point. Serena reurned a hard serve right to the body she had to lurch out of the way to get her racket on it and was able to get it back deep so that Venus had to hit the next shot taking a step backward. Great stuff.

Serena earned it. Venus is getting better though. This is getting good. I disagree with the need for either of them to change their present playing sceduale thought. Why would Venus need matches outside of the slams to work on anything with a sister whom she could play out in the backyard any day of the week? You can't practice playing under grand slam pressure, you just have to do it. Ask Kimmie? Venus just needs to work on improving her second serve technically. When she gets the problem fixed, confidence will come.

Jan 26th, 2003, 07:24 PM
Well said Larrybid and tennis1972. Venus does punish those other opponents when they seem to exploit her in any way, now let's hope she starts to bully Serena a little bit. It's funny because in the Ralph Wiley article published on ESPN about Venus, Serena has always said that "Venus can do whatever she wants". Now let's just hope she wants to keep winning those Grand Slams.

Serendy Willick
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:55 PM
Another tanking, sure its always another tanking if Venus doesnt win riggggght?:rolleyes: BTW, Venus serve was on during that match, or you mustve been blind not to see her serve Serena nearly off the court when she was serving for the second set.

Jan 26th, 2003, 10:13 PM
About the possible benefit of a sched change: there's a definite difference between practice and a Slam final match. I personally think that V has to make a transition similar to Rena's. She has to beat someone who's now developed the habit of beating her. The glare and pressure of a big slam match can be just enough to prevent this.

Rena benefited from her two non-Slam wins (esp Miami 2002). Similarly, Venus benefited tremendously from her non-slam wins against Hingis in preparation for Wimby 2000.

Jan 26th, 2003, 10:16 PM
tennisIlove09, If you think you can serve 125mph for 3 sets against Serena I would like to see you do it.

Jan 27th, 2003, 12:22 AM
I like how Venus served out that doubles match. Now if she had only done the same against Serena at 5/4, but the nerves took over. She'll do better next time.

Jan 27th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Another thing, I think Venus main problem is not her serve, but her return of serve. She has got to return more cosistently. Too many of her balls land out at inportant points in all of her matches. She also have got to stop feeding Serena running game. That girl loves to run & hit, Venus knows this, why not change it up a little & Hit some really short angles. Anyway, I think she should get a ball mashine & work on the ball comming to her fast. She said she had great eyesight, use it to inprove her return. serena did it. That's the main difference with her since the Lipton. She beefed up her returns.

Jan 27th, 2003, 02:58 AM
One more obvious reason is that as Serena has grown up with Venus's serve it would be surprising if she didn't do better against it? That situation may work around the other way too - As the sisters practice with each other and Serena is still limiting her appearances on the tour Venus also may have the fullest appreciation of her sister's abilities. Add to that the mental issues involved in fighting your sister and denying her her Grand Slam versus losing four in a row and its hardly surprising Venus had trouble.