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View Full Version : Serena vs Kim: Some notes


Volcana
Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:54 PM
Kim: If you got look at the tape, Kim double-faulted at some crucial times during the RG final a few years back. She does choke a bit under pressure. Plaease note, she hasn't been 'under pressure' very much at all since the USOpen. She just beat the hell out of whoever she was playing.

Serena: Should have won first set, even as Kim should have won the third. But Serena started going for the knock-out punch, and Kim let her self-destruct.

9 minute delay - The first ninety seconds, you could call 'gamesmanship'. Serena could have called for the trainer right away. The other 7 and a half minutes, we all saw what the trainer was doing. Can't blame Serena for that.

Kim started aggresive, then turned more passive. She was losing when she playing 'aggressive'. She won the first set by turning more conservative.

Anti-Serena, Anti-Williams fans - This is Loit all over again. Serena dangled a humilating loss in front of you, then snatched it away. I'd be mad too. It's like she's somehow taunting you through the TV set.

Kim fans - What can I say but 'better luck next time'? Kim certainly is the #3 player in the world, without question. The morning before the match, either mary joe or pam said they had breakfast with her. And they quote Kim as saying two things.

"I know the match isn't totally in my hands"

(this one's a paraphrase)

"If she going well, I have to be aggressive, if she hitting a lot of errors, I have to just kept getting the ball back."

Well Kim did the second, and in the third set, the match WAS 'in her hands'. Not many people get to the point where a match is in their hands vs Serena.

What do I take from this?

The player who was mentally stronger won.

gentenaire
Jan 23rd, 2003, 02:07 PM
A match is never in the hands of only one player.

I agree with your final conclusion.

Weevee
Jan 23rd, 2003, 02:18 PM
Did you notice how long it took the trainers to come out when Henin collapsed against Davenport?
Venus double faulted three times at 5-2 against Henin.
I have seen Serena go stubborn against Venus, Davenport, and others. SHE is UNBELIEVABLE!

eshell
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:30 PM
I was checking out the statistics from the match.

Player Serena Kim
UEs 65 33
winners 42 14
Differential -23 -19


I wasn't aware that Serena had 42 winners, actually, because all the stories have focused on her 65 UEs.

So, Clijsters assessment was right. I could not imagine playing someone who either ended rallies with a winner or an UE. It probably made it tough for her rhythm and strategy.

supremeross
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by eshell
I was checking out the statistics from the match.

Player Serena Kim
UEs 65 33
winners 42 14
Differential -23 -19


I wasn't aware that Serena had 42 winners, actually, because all the stories have focused on her 65 UEs.

So, Clijsters assessment was right. I could not imagine playing someone who either ended rallies with a winner or an UE. It probably made it tough for her rhythm and strategy.


First, I'd have to say that there isn't much that seperates Serena's and Kim's game but determinationn and heart. I like both Serena's and Kim's never say die attitude and its not over til we're shaking hands at the net attitude, they have both pulled some rabbits out of their hats when they were down. I also think that Kim and a lot of other players get into a lot of trouble when they change their game plan and style of play when playing the sisters. Kim was trying to center the ball and pretty much let Serena determine how the point would end, either through error or winner, thus the above stats of more winners and errors for Serena. Kim is an aggressive player with an aggressive game and only had 14 winners over the course of three sets and 31 games played. That's less than one winner for every 2 games played. Have anyone else ever noticed that Venus and Serena NEVER talk about playing differently when playing a different type of player, NOPE, they play their aggressive style of game and will not let up and force the issue.

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:44 PM
Part of the problem is that Venus and Serena don't let you play your game. But you are correct, maybe centering the ball was bad, but the commentators all say to do that because of how dangerous the sisters are when they are on the run. Kim pretty much conceded that she would react to Serena, if Serena plays well I'll do....if she doesn't I'll do ......

BK4ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:56 PM
There is alot that separates Serena and Kim. Just like Suprememoss said, Serena and Venus never change their tactics, They just play their aggressive game and move on from there.

Kim's strategy last night was stupid. She was more concerned with her tactics and forgot to play her aggressive game. Yes, I know it worked for a while, but then it backfired, rightfully so. She was so passive the entire match, that when she needed to be aggressive, she had no rhythm.

A win is a win...so potentially winning with the safe strategy may look attractive, but in the long run, it only hurts your game. Given the way Serena was playing...if Kim had come out playing "her" game, she would have probably won that match easily. Serena was a shadow of herself and still managed to win in three.

Kim has alot of work to do if she wants to be on Serena's level. She is no where close. She has the weapons, now she needs to learn how to use them more efficiently. This loss could be the "defining" moment of her career.

Very interested to see how she recovers!

RAA
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever


Kim's strategy last night was stupid.

I do not agree with this at all. however..


She was more concerned with her tactics and forgot to play her aggressive game. Yes, I know it worked for a while, but then it backfired, rightfully so. She was so passive the entire match, that when she needed to be aggressive, she had no rhythm.

But with this I agree.. she basically saw that serena was playing horribly and let her just make tons of UEs.. good strategy for a while, worked wonderfully for M. HIngis for a while. However, you nkow that eventually SErena will find her range, and you are right, she just couldn't turn it on and up at that point.


Very interested to see how she recovers!

I think she'll learn, like many players, including Serena, how to close out matches.

ARealVenusFan
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:21 PM
Serena dangled a humilating loss in front of you, then snatched it away. I'd be mad too. It's like she's somehow taunting you through the TV set.

I agree whole-heartedly. I found myself screaming and cursing at Serena.

I know it's not true, but it seems like she planned this...making it more suspenseful, so that the story of her "Serena Slam" would be a better.

I know it's not true but...

disposablehero
Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by joy
Volcana- i know you post here a lot and i should probably know this but Venus or Serena?? Who do you want to win and who is your fave?

Since he doesn't seem to be around, I can assure you the answer to both questions is Venus.

Averylove
Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:54 PM
know it's not true, but it seems like she planned this...making it more suspenseful, so that the story of her "Serena Slam" would be a better.

I know it's not true but... it is true;)
I have been a follower of Serena since 1997 and i can tell you she had Kim in the bag :drool: and let Kim think she was going to win Fool Kim and shut up Pam, MaryJo and all the rest of them Crooks :( I'm being nice i want to call them something else :mad:

Anyway Never count out Serena in a Match Never :mad:

o0O0o
Jan 24th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Everyone chokes against the Williams sisters. Their reputation has exceeded their games and players get tense at the thought of beating them. It is the same for every #1 player throughout history, especially the more dominant ones.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:42 AM
Kim had her chances just like Serena did against Martina in the 2001 Quarters. Serena should have won that match. Just like Serena should have won that Quarterfinal 2001 wimbledon against Jen.

In all 3 situations two things happened: the player who was winning choked. The player who was losing got better and took advantaged.

If you are not mentally strong then you dont deserve to win. The mental aspect of tennis is more important imo than the skills you have. If you dont have the confidence in your skills or the guts to go for your shots and make the right play then guess what? You're going to be a loser on that day.

Yesterday kim was that loser.

Kim has the weapons and the game to beat the number one and two players. She's done it before. Can she do it again?

Also its not like this is a triumverate. There are other players. Momo beat kim. Lindsay beat kim. Chanda beat serena. I can go on and on.

Players develop on their own. Kim is not destined to win slams early like martina did. Not everyone develops at the same rate. she will get there.

also if youre are so mentally weak as to let someone's reputation cause you to lose, well you deserve to lose.