PDA

View Full Version : Clijsters: Stunning choke


Robbie.
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:56 AM
I'm sorry but I am disgusted with the way that Kim approached her 5-1 lead in the final set.

Serena played HORRIBLE the entire match - she basically handed the match to Kim on a platter and when it came to finishing the match Kim choked. Never mind Hingis' slight tightening of the racquet arm in last years final, this was full blown Novotna-esque. Her serve completely deserted her - I'd like to see her first serve percentage for the last 3 service games because it must have been laughable. And two double-faults when serving for the match @ 5-4? Unforgiveable. To Serena's credit she dug in and began to play slightly more consistently (although she was still hardly the Serena of 2002), but Kim was making horrible unforced errors and could barely sustain a rally especially after she completely lost her nerve when broken at 5-2.

Yesterday Serena got pissed when she got asked what it takes to beat a Williams sister(yet again). Well today we found out that it requires GUTS, a quality Kim displayed a demonstrable lack of in today's third set. The Williams sisters cannot be beaten in grandslams because the other girls don't have the balls to win even when one of the sisters does everything in their power to give their opponent an oppurtunity to win the match. Well done to the Williams sisters for reaching their fourth consecutive GS final, until the other girls on the WTA grow a backbone I am sure we will be seeing you in all GS finals in the foreseeble future.

And to all those looking to Clijsters as the tonic for the Williams Domination, leave the poor girl alone. Being a champion takes more than just game, and if today is any indication she certainly lacks the X-factor.

spencercarlos
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:59 AM
I don´t think it was Kim choking. Serena simply started to put her shots in and being the agressor. Maybe Kim paid the price of waiting for Serena´s mistakes at the end, which never came, especially after saving those 2 match points.
Serena showed a great heart, i´m really impressed with her performance.
Kim stick to her strategy, this match made me remember the 2000 Usopen semifinal Venus vs Hingis, Hingis used the same strategy and paid the price at the end.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:00 AM
I was very disappointed in Kim. She fronts. I really want Kim to just admit that she got nerves. She never says she is nervous. Kim CHOKED!!! She will do it again unless she gets out of denial, and I hope she isn't in denial. I hope she knows it's okay to be nervous. She better tell the truth in her press conference

angele87
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:00 AM
Please, let's not start with this.... Serena won and that's that.

disposablehero
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:03 AM
I thought Serena played extremely well once the choke began. But Kim should have played well enough to win 1 game out of 4, her game went down faster than Serena's went up. How US Open-esque was it? Compare the final scores. And Kim quadruple faulting serving for the match.

Come-on-kim
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:03 AM
I don't think Kim choked!!

Like Dominique Monami-Van Roost said, it's not Kim who lost the match, but serena that win it!!

Kim couldn't do anything on her match points!!! Serena hit very very hard!!

The only thing where Kim did a mistake is on her two df!

Kim, come back stronger!!

sideout
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:03 AM
Unfortunately for Kim, I think that this loss (and it must a damn devestating one for her b/c she had that match on her racket a bunch of times) may result in Serena getting in her kitchen a la Hingis-Cappy. Kim, you need to figure out what Lleyton tells himself in those situations, or better yet ask Vee or Rena how they dig themselves out of those holes or the semis at a slam is the best you're ever gonna do........

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:04 AM
I don't think Kim choked ....she did double fault but really Serena almost choked away the whole match, she just picked it up at the end........ It takes time, you can only learn from matches like this look at A Rod.

selesadmirer
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:07 AM
Kim rushed way too much and that is the bottom line..she should have took her time.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:07 AM
Ask yourself this question Kim fans. Did you feel and KNOW at 5-1 Kim was gonna win this match?! I KNEW she would! And she lost! She choked!!!!!! Why is choking such a sin for a fan to admit!? She choked!

...ho hum

Robbie.
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by petosp
I don´t think it was Kim choking. Serena simply started to put her shots in and being the agressor. Maybe Kim paid the price of waiting for Serena´s mistakes at the end, which never came, especially after saving those 2 match points.
Serena showed a great heart, i´m really impressed with her performance.
Kim stick to her strategy, this match made me remember the 2000 Usopen semifinal Venus vs Hingis, Hingis used the same strategy and paid the price at the end.

This was totally different to Venus/Hingis. In that match Venus was actually playing well for most of the match, it was one of the best quality women's matches in recent memory plus it was close so it was forseeable that with a few shots here or there Venus could come out on top. Sure Hingis' tightened up a bit, but it was to nothing like the extent that Kim did today. In today's match Serena played horrible throughout (less horrible once Kim let her back in the match), plus Kim had a huge lead. There was only one way Kim could lose from 5-1 one up. Choke.

Kim fans you are in denial. Kim totally choked. She barely got a first serve in for heaven's sake :rolleyes: Her shots began to land short in the court and she ALLOWED Serena to dictate the match. It is a sad inditement on the women's game when we have a world #3 in the form of her life who cannot beat a world #1 who is playing well below par because she can't keep her head together long enough.

GoDominique
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:12 AM
Dominique commentated ??? :hearts:

Kim did well until 5-2. How Serena saved the 2nd MP was fantastic. That was when the nerves began.
From 5-3, Kim choked.

spencercarlos
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:14 AM
She did not Choke, maybe that 5-4 serving and those 2 double faults, but they were full of pressure because it was Serena who hit winners and started to miss NO MORE after being 1-5 down, especially in those important points.
Not to mention the way she saved those match points, one deep forehand return of serve, and that tricky exchange at net.

tennisfan1972
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:14 AM
This was a really fascinating match. I was firsly, so surprised at the poor level of serena's play. but considering this is the first big tournament of the year, its understandable that she hasnt found her devastating form yet. I think Kim played realy steady/ Kim should have learned from Serenas play in the second set that when down, serena finds a way to pull out sets. But i couldnt predicted that Kim would be up 5-2 and still go on to lose 5 straight games. I think serena picked up her play soemwhat , but not enough to stop Kim the way she played most of teh first set and the early stages of the last set. Serena still has nerves but i think her experience carried her through this one. After Kim choked that first service game away , iknew it was all over. Serena is smart, she knew then that Kim would be nervous and tentative, so she kept the balls deep and hard, but not too risky and she basically dared Kim to go for it , and kim didnt and it cost her the match. she had lik somany opportunities to win this match. it will be interesting to see how Kim copes with this loss. this was a huge loss in my opinion, she really did in my opinion, have a shot atthis title if sh ewould only have made it past serena. i think Venus may have beat her but Venus made lots of errors today and Kim blew her chances here. Hope she learns from this. Sorry to all my fellow Kim fans, this is a tough loss. but COngrats to all my fellow williams fans and fans of good tennis. This was a good match. definately had the drama

treufreund
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:17 AM
I agree with you GoDominique. It was kinda like Kim said to herself, "Is it actually possible to win a match point against her?"

she needs to work on her nerves and on her swing volley. She really needs a tricky serve to use on key points and some aggressive play at the net. Used sparingly like the drop shot in the last game is the best way on key points since normal baseline rallies are nearly impossible to win against the Williams. They CENTER the ball a bit more and just hit the snot out of it and then get an easy ball to put away.

keta
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:17 AM
Maybe Kim did choke but at least she got to the semi final in the first place, thats better than the other 100 or so players who didnt get there soo, how about we parise her on making it there in the first place and criticie so the OTHER players who didnt make it!

Goo kimmmy!! :kiss:

irma
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:19 AM
she needs to work on her serve

spencercarlos
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by {{{RoB}}}
This was totally different to Venus/Hingis. In that match Venus was actually playing well for most of the match, it was one of the best quality women's matches in recent memory plus it was close so it was forseeable that with a few shots here or there Venus could come out on top. Sure Hingis' tightened up a bit, but it was to nothing like the extent that Kim did today. In today's match Serena played horrible throughout (less horrible once Kim let her back in the match), plus Kim had a huge lead. There was only one way Kim could lose from 5-1 one up. Choke.

Kim fans you are in denial. Kim totally choked. She barely got a first serve in for heaven's sake :rolleyes: Her shots began to land short in the court and she ALLOWED Serena to dictate the match. It is a sad inditement on the women's game when we have a world #3 in the form of her life who cannot beat a world #1 who is playing well below par because she can't keep her head together long enough.

You are really wrong, 2000 Usopen Hingis vs Venus, Venus was really rusty in set number one, by the way Hingis was playing really smart hitting deep, staying with her etc, just like Kim did today. I´m talking about the stragegy approaching the match, thats the simlilarity i found. Also Hingis led 5-3 and ended losing 7-5, based on winners by Venus. What do you think happened today?

See the stats, Kim had "ONLY" 14 winners.

I just think that she was not agressive enought to finish it, maybe she was expecting Serena to miss more, but she just did not. And put pressure by being the agressor. She made lots of winners at the end of it.

BK4ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:26 AM
Kim didnt choke because the match was never in her hands. It was always on Serena's racket. Kim's play it safe tactic backfired. It was never a good tactic anyway. She should have taken it to Serena, not sit around and wait for Serena to miss. Look at Kim's winners. Nothing like her other matches. If Kim had come into this match with the same tactic (aggressive) that she had against everyone else, she would have won this match(given Serena's horrible form).

She will cry her eyes out and then learn from this.

Robbie.
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:26 AM
petosp, Hingis didn't lead 5-1. Hingis didn't serve for the match twice. The final set was close even though Hingis was infront. She didnt' make stupid errors(tactical maybe). She didn't have match point. She didn't serve two double faults to go down 0-30 when serving for the match. Enough said.

irma
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:27 AM
serena had like 4 matchpoints in the quarters two years ago

Rocketta
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by irma
she needs to work on her serve

and her nerves. She really should look at Serena of 2001, total choke-a-roma. :)

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:30 AM
Kim choked. How was this not a choke. She had an immense lead, had the forces on her side, and the bratty crowd even. And she still lost. A classic choke

spudrsca
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:32 AM
Well I've seen the match and for me she chokes.
She should have won in two sets.
Whe she was 5-1 up in the third, she should have taken more risks on Serena's serve.
Her balls was shorter and not as fast as the beginning
:sad:
AT 5-6 she rushed too much especially after her first double-faults.

BigTennisFan
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:32 AM
but....

if Kim choked, I really feel sorry for her. I like Kim. But you do have to be able to guts it out at the end.

I have to watch the match on tape because I had to teach a class tonight. But I'm happy Rena won.

Better luck next time Kim

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:33 AM
A match is in your hands when you're up 5-1, 2 breaks, serving for the match under a crowd that has a adopted you and an opponent with blisters on her toe. It doesn't get anymore "in her hands" than that! LOL!

Come-on-kim
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by GoDominique
Dominique commentated ??? :hearts:

Kim did well until 5-2. How Serena saved the 2nd MP was fantastic. That was when the nerves began.
From 5-3, Kim choked.

Yes, she did!! She's a great commentator!! Well, she knows what she is speaking about :rolleyes: !!!

I love her accent!!

1jackson2001
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:34 AM
I like Kim, but I really do think that she choked...massively. How Serena digs herself from such deep holes I will never know? :confused:

Jordan.
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:34 AM
:sad:

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:35 AM
Well I think most players "choke" in a few big matches in their careers, Serena did it too, she will get better I'm sure.

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:35 AM
I don't think she will become Novotna #2

2284
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:36 AM
Worst case of choking I've ever seen :(. Serena wasn't even playing that well today...but Kim will be back. This is just a minor setback for her.

If Serena plays like this on Saturday, Venus will have the title handed to her on a platter. Those blisters are looking really nasty. Channel 7 showed them for almost the whole injury time out :rolleyes:

spudrsca
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by BK4ever
Kim didnt choke because the match was never in her hands. It was always on Serena's racket. Kim's play it safe tactic backfired. It was never a good tactic anyway. She should have taken it to Serena, not sit around and wait for Serena to miss. Look at Kim's winners. Nothing like her other matches. If Kim had come into this match with the same tactic (aggressive) that she had against everyone else, she would have won this match(given Serena's horrible form).

She will cry her eyes out and then learn from this.

I disagree with you, Kim had the match in her hands, but played not long enough.
If she had played long enough like in the beginning, Serena would never be able to do winners like she did at the end.
Kim played not as fast and shorther that the beginning.

Dawn Marie
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:36 AM
OK, the real deal is this.

It was always Serena's match to win or lose. At first Serena was playing to many errors. Kim remained consistant on getting the ball back. Serena lost first set and got nervous. She got it together in the second set. Then third set Serena began to lose it, but got stronger while Kim served for the match. Kim got nervous while Serena showed strength. Serena really upped her level at 1/5 down.

Nothing Kim should be ashamed of. Serena's stats stunk and she still won. That is a clear sign that it was on Serena's raquet. Kim choked, but Serena choked for Kim to even get match points.

Eddie
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:37 AM
The quality of the Qtr. Finals and Semies was very low at this years AO. Compared to last year the level of ladies game has dropped significantly. To witness top players make so many unforced errors is sickening. I don't expect better quality in the final but I hope that the Williams sisters can prove me wrong. I really, really do. :sad:

tennisIlove09
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:41 AM
i dont think it was a chock....Serena stepped it up when it mattered

tennischick
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:44 AM
i can't believe you guys are arguing over whether Kim choked or not. if we could all be flies on her wall tonite, i'm certain that right about now she's asking her boyfriend, "Llleyton mon cheri, i have no idea why i choked so badly!!!!"

Kim played great until she became too aware of that in the third set. and she choked. she should have won this match. she didn't.

but she is a force to contend with....;) ;)

vs1
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:44 AM
I feel bad for Kim. My opinion is that she DID choke and Serena sensed it and went in for the kill. Kim was SO close. I was cheering Serena on but was SURE that Kim was going to win. I was totally shocked when Kim lost! Serena stepped it up an extra gear, but Kim stepped it WAY down. She lost her fighting spirit and played too defensively. But she's solid and has all of the right moves. She's destined for great championships. She'll learn a lot from this. And will come back stronger, especially mentally. Congrats to both ladies.

2284
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by tennisIlove09
i dont think it was a chock....Serena stepped it up when it mattered

Serena did step it up a bit, but Kim's 2 double faults helped

Rocketta
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:47 AM
Yeah I think Kim couldn't change philosophies in the middle of the match. She was letting Serena defeat herself, which everyone should have with Serena spraying balls left and right, then when Serena stopped spraying the ball Kim couldn't turn the aggressiveness on. I think the last game she choked she was in shock.

1jackson2001
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:47 AM
I agree with Eddie...I hope for Venus to win the final but no matter the result I would really like at least a three-setter, which never seems to happen between them two. :confused: :o

Crazy Canuck
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:48 AM
If I was a fan of hers, I would be devestated for her. Lucky I'm not, I've had enough pain this tournament ;)

No matter how well Serena played - looking at Kims serving over the past few games, and the huge lead she blew - it's a choke. I don't see how anybody can deny that, lol.

Against a weaker opponent she might have gotten away with it, but not Serena.

Robbie.
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:49 AM
Becca, I think the point is against a weaker opponent she wouldn't have done it.

spudrsca
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:49 AM
I get rid of this:(
Why can't we see Kim chokes, she's human and it's not the first time she did.
Her last defeat against Myskina last year, she chokes.
In the last set, she had a huge lead too and lost 7-6.

We are not in a world where's Justine always chokes and Kim never:mad:

I had predicted that Serena would win in three with Kim winning the first and then not playing as good and Serena winning the other two.
I wish it didn't happen but it did:sad:

vogus
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:07 AM
Absolutely one of the biggest chokes of all time!

The final six games of the match: Serena won 31 points, Clijsters won 9, elapsed time 17 minutes.

But it's important to remember that choking is a relative concept. Kim couldn't hit her groundstrokes past the service line, and with all these short balls coming at her, Serena started clocking every ball into the corner off both sides! Even on that great matchpoint, Kim was totally on the defensive despite that she was serving. She simply waited for Serena to lose. I've never liked Serena much, but today she played like a true champ. Serena asked "KIM CLIJSTERS HAVE YOU GOT THE BALLS TO BEAT ME WHEN IT'S ALL ON THE LINE?" And the answer was an emphatic "No." Any of the other top players would have choked the same way as Kim. Hingis for sure. Poor Justine too. Capriati never once beat Venus when it really counted. Mauresmo? Give me a break.

Clijsters' brief time as the poster girl for challenging the Sisters is over. She'll never get a better chance than this one, at the top of her form, Serena playing shaky, and in Australia where Kim has maximum support. Kim will remain a Top 5 player, but she'll never fully recover from this defeat. A new challenger will have to be anointed because Kim has lost her credibility. Or more likely the Sisters level will start to deteriorate from boredom and lack of competition.

Serena would have lost to players outside the Top 50 today, to Weingartner for example, because some of the players outside the Top 50 have more balls than the players in the Top 10.


"It is a sad inditement on the women's game when we have a world #3 in the form of her life who cannot beat a world #1 who is playing well below par because she can't keep her head together long enough."

Jovon
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:12 AM
Congrats to Serena for stepping it up and taking the match!:worship:

Congrats to Kim for a great fight!:bounce:

Sam L
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by vogus
"It is a sad inditement on the women's game when we have a world #3 in the form of her life who cannot beat a world #1 who is playing well below par because she can't keep her head together long enough."

Bravo! Have you seen my thread? :D

billybizar
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:31 AM
If you have a 5-1 lead in the third and you can't make one single game out of four to win the match (plus two MP's...) there is no other word to describe such a thing: CHOKE, CHOKE, CHOKE!

Being a Kim fan, this really hurts. Or better, I'm depressed. For a long time!

gentenaire
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Mrs_Guga
Ask yourself this question Kim fans. Did you feel and KNOW at 5-1 Kim was gonna win this match?! I KNEW she would! And she lost! She choked!!!!!! Why is choking such a sin for a fan to admit!? She choked!

...ho hum

I didn't to be honest. I was still nervous as hell. I posted in the FC at 5-1 that if she threw away that lead I'd be pissed. You think I jinxed her?

Kim choked. I can't blame her for not converting those two matchpoints since Serena was too good on those points. But those two double faults!! At this level, you don't give away a 5-1 lead. Kim choked, full stop.

And I disagree about Serena handing Kim the victory. Unforced errors are seldom really unforced. In a lot of rallies, Kim was simply better and forced Serena to make an error. Also, since Serena brings back more balls than other players, points that would otherwise have been a winner for Kim are now listed as UE for Serena.

Larrybid
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by WtaTour4Ever
I don't think she will become Novotna #2

I thought her countrywoman, Henin-hardenne was Novotna, Jr..

Larrybid
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by vogus
Clijsters' brief time as the poster girl for challenging the Sisters is over. She'll never get a better chance than this one, at the top of her form, Serena playing shaky, and in Australia where Kim has maximum support. Kim will remain a Top 5 player, but she'll never fully recover from this defeat. A new challenger will have to be anointed because Kim has lost her credibility...

Wait a minute. I argee Kim choked, but you gotta remenber she is only 19!! Geez. I doubt she's ruined for life. I love "Rena to death, but she choked a few at 19 years old and came back from it.