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View Full Version : How's that for lack of depth?


Sam L
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:42 AM
World #1 with blisters on her feet, playing one of the worst matches I have seen her play (in a grand slam especially), and yet the #3 player in the world couldn't beat her even with match points.

The Williams sisters are going to play in grand slam finals over and over and over again.

Now here's hoping that at least the final would be better (meaning Venus would win). Even that is not looking too good.

I was going to say this even if Kim won, so I'll say it again, I don't think Kim did anything that special in the match, she played within herself and capitalised on Serena's errors which Serena cut down in the last few games of the match. So when Serena stopped making errors (somehow), she lost.

Finally, there is NO depth in womens' tennis and Serena and Venus are SO MUCH better than others (especially in the mental department).

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:59 AM
Thats just silly! Kim could have won that match. Kim is definitely the third player in the world. She also came close to winning the french open in 2001 or have you forgotten that? Also who won the aussie 2001 and 2002?

And did you see Tulyganova play? She's future top ten. Bovina? The same.

Stop ragging on women's tennis! Serena had to FIGHT for that win. Fight hard! Kim should have gone for her shots no matter what was happening. She didn't step it up. serena did.

Sam L
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:59 AM
Bump

The late 90's were very misleading, people started thinking anyone can win slams in womens' tennis.

We're back to the early 90's I would say. These matches reminds me a lot of the days when everyone used to hope Graf and Seles would get upset before the finals, they came close on many occasions, but pulled them out just like Venus and Serena.

Dare I say, are we headed for the mid-80's-esque dominance too?

Sam L
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:02 AM
I know Serena stepped it up. I don't think you read the bit about me saying:

1/. Serena played one of the worst matches I've seen her play.

2/. Kim was doing nothing special, but only appeared to, from Serena's errors.

3/. Serena stepped it up with mental toughness and cutting down her errors.

We're talking #3 player in the world here. Emilie Loit is ok, but you'd expect more from #3.

fammmmedspin
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:46 AM
The tour below the Williams sisters is getting very competitive. Even there more and more people seem to be figuring out how to play the Williams sisters - which is something - look how many players are now beating them in rallies if they can get into one and how much closer their matches were. The problem is no one can play consistently enough to pull off the win. A Kim with Martina's consistency doesn't exist yet. Graf had her challengers after 1989 and Serena's challengers are probably out there - as is Serena's next injury. It won't be easy for the challengers, though, as Serena is beginning to display the champion's ability to pull out a win - which of course means anyone else the opportunity of becoming a champion and learning that skill.

BCP
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:58 AM
I think that saying that there is no depth is taking it a bit far.

But younger posters in various threads have said that players of the past had it easier becuase that there was no competition. Like I have said numerous times, there is no more competition today than there was then. Champions are able to dominate the tour for a period do so because they are too good for the rest of the tour for a particular period of time.

Years from now, younger posters will look back to this era and say that the Williams only dominated because there was no competiton, Davenport was injured, and Hingis was burned out. Sound familiar guys? These types of comments were made re : Chris, Martina, Steffi, and you will end up having to defend the Williams achievements, and point out the quality of players opposing them to the next generation of tennis fans..........

SM
Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:02 AM
For once icant comment cosi never saw the matches. Kim obviously had t play good tennis tto go up 6-4 3-6 5-1 with a double break!! ;) cos even if Serena is not playing her best her SERVE , power and intimidation factor(as the #1) make it avery arduos task even for the top players to consolidate the breaks..

Rollo
Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:16 AM
It's right up there with the early 90s for domination. The numbers speak for themselves.

As for depth-it's is all between numbers 4 and 20 as far as I can see.

Serena is heads and shoulders #1 until someone knocks her off at a slam and makes a question mark of it.

Venus is a level below at #2.

Clijsters at #3-a level below Venus.

And then we get lots of question marks. Davenport is not the same woman she used to be. Henin seems to be a perpetual top tenner. Capriati is a mystery and hasn't come near slam winning form since last year's French. Mauresmo is out injured. Seles seems past winning a slam. Hantuchova has made no recent headway. And Hingis is AWOL.

It's a big mix below #3, but you can be sure the press will try and build up one or the other just like they did in the 90s with Mary Joe or Anke Huber or Capriati.

Here's to a good final.

XMan
Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:17 AM
This is a totally ridiculous post that certainly doesn't reflect the Kim-Serena match. What Kim clearly showed is the fact that she has EVERYTHING needed to beat the Williams sisters. She isn't overpowered at all, she can convert fast first serves of her opponent in to winners, she has the ability to move the sisters around and she runs down every ball. If you saw the match then you should have noticed that a lot of Serena's UE where actually partly forced by Kim. Serena just hits always more UE's against Kim because she can't play her game because Kim has the ability to return the balls deep and controlled. If you think that the future is just a Serena/Venus domination then you could be very surprised.

way
Jan 23rd, 2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by BCP
I think that saying that there is no depth is taking it a bit far.

But younger posters in various threads have said that players of the past had it easier becuase that there was no competition. Like I have said numerous times, there is no more competition today than there was then. Champions are able to dominate the tour for a period do so because they are too good for the rest of the tour for a particular period of time.

Years from now, younger posters will look back to this era and say that the Williams only dominated because there was no competiton, Davenport was injured, and Hingis was burned out. Sound familiar guys? These types of comments were made re : Chris, Martina, Steffi, and you will end up having to defend the Williams achievements, and point out the quality of players opposing them to the next generation of tennis fans..........


Thanks for this post, BCP!!!
You spared me to type it!!!
(and you expressed it better than I would have, anyway)
:)
PURE (and HISTORICAL) TRUTH!!!
Perspective, perspective, perspective,
variables, variables, variables,
history, history, history,
it's all in here

Experimentee
Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:55 AM
I think theres a lot of depth in the tour only the Williams sisters are a level above the rest. Below the sisters, theres a lot of players that are about the same level.

gentenaire
Jan 23rd, 2003, 11:59 AM
What Xman said!

Most UEs are in fact forced! A mis-hit is a clear unforced error, but I wouldn't even call double faults unforced.

The Crow
Jan 23rd, 2003, 12:22 PM
I totally agree with XMan. After the Masters final, it's the second time people say "Serena played oh so bad against Kim". Maybe it has something to do with who's on the other side of the net too??

bee
Jan 23rd, 2003, 12:25 PM
Women's tennis is becoming...like Formula 1 ... where the outcome is so predictable....

The williams sisters are just to good. Even on a bad day- they are hard to beat.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I miss Hingis... :)


:D :D :D :D :bounce: :D :D :D :D :bounce: :D :D :D :D :bounce: :D :D :D :D :bounce: :D :D :D :D :bounce: :D :D :D :D :D

slydevil6142
Jan 23rd, 2003, 12:33 PM
Kim played a really good match however has i was watching it she really should have taken it to serena when she was breaking in the third set. It seemed has her lead increased she began to play more timid and hoped that serena would hand her the match like she was already doing. Serena was able to pull herself out of the fire but if she expects to beat venus in the final she better do something alot different and if her foot gets any worse things may not look to good. Also i would like to address the fact that everyone keeps saying that so and so has what it takes to beat the sisters hello they are different ppl and surpiringly they are starting to play a little different to and the things that you may be able to do to beat one sister may not work against the other.

vogus
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:15 PM
Kim committed one of the biggest choke jobs of all time!

The final six games of the match: Serena won 31 points, Clijsters won 9, elapsed time 17 minutes.

But it's important to remember that choking is a relative concept. Kim couldn't hit her groundstrokes past the service line, and with all these short balls coming at her, Serena started clocking every ball into the corner off both sides! Even on that great matchpoint, Kim was totally on the defensive despite that she was serving. She simply waited for Serena to lose. I've never liked Serena much, but today she played like a true champ. Serena asked "KIM CLIJSTERS HAVE YOU GOT THE BALLS TO BEAT ME WHEN IT'S ALL ON THE LINE?" And the answer was an emphatic "No."

Any of the other top players would have choked the same way as Kim. Hingis for sure. Poor Justine too. Davenport is too arrogant to even bother giving a hundred percent against the Sisters. Capriati could never win a point against Venus when it really counted. Mauresmo? Give me a break.

Clijsters' brief time as the poster girl for challenging the Sisters is over. She'll never get a better chance than this one, at the top of her form, Serena playing shaky, and in Australia where Kim has maximum support. Kim will remain a Top 5 player, but she'll never fully recover from this defeat. A new challenger will have to be anointed because Kim has lost her credibility. Or more likely the Sisters level will start to deteriorate from boredom and lack of competition.

Serena would have lost to players outside the Top 50 today, to Weingartner for example, because some of the players outside the Top 50 have more balls than the players in the Top 10.


"It is a sad inditement on the women's game when we have a world #3 in the form of her life who cannot beat a world #1 who is playing well below par because she can't keep her head together long enough."

jenny161185
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:34 PM
i agree Vogus. well done to Serena and Venus today they deserved their wins