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View Full Version : To my fellow race-baiters ....


Volcana
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:20 AM
Some of you, who shall remain nameless, are giving us a bad name! Stating that the crowd is 'racist' for cheering Dani instead of Venus is .. I want to be gentle here ... really fuckin' stupid. This wasn't Indian Wells guys. Crowds are ALLOWED to choose sides. That's part of sports. And you know what? If they were cheering for Dani cause she's white, that's just fine with me.

When you get down to it, they were criticizing the linesman.

Were they rude? Sure. Inconsiderate? Totally.

Did they boo Venus at the end, or give here a big long round of applause?

The term 'racist' implies the crowd somehow though less of Venus becuase she's Black, and more of Dani because she's White. I've seen no evidence of that. The crowd may well have SIDED with Dani cause she's White, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can be PRO anyone you want, for whatever reason you want, and it's fine with me. It's when you start rooting AGAINST people because of skin color or religion or gender that I have a problem.

Why don't we save accusing people of 'racism' for times when we at least are willing to make a detailed case for the accusation, backed up by facts?

"She looks like me, I'll root for her" is not a line of reasoning I find offensive. Short-sighted? Yes. Offensive? Please.

Save it for when it means something and I've got your back. But this crowd thing is trivial. Venus can go home and count her Nike money, and decide for herself if 40 million dollars is worth having bodyguards and the crowd always cheer the white girl. Somehow, I figure she shows up for the semis.

Rocketta
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:25 AM
I agree! :)

I don't know or care what the crowds motivation was I know they were wrong about those calls. I love shot spot. :)

Lisbeth
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:27 AM
Well said Volcana. Thanks.

fhkung
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
Save it for when it means something and I've got your back. But this crowd thing is trivial. Venus can go home and count her Nike money, and decide for herself if 40 million dollars is worth having bodyguards and the crowd always cheer the white girl. Somehow, I figure she shows up for the semis.
so you finally realize that your Venus's never the crowd fav,
i guess these lame excuses can make you feel better than
:rolleyes:
oh well, so what Venus doesnt want any fans,
if she is happy to be unpopular, so be it,
coz nobody is cheering for her anyways......:)

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:32 AM
'crowd thing' = trivial
fhkung = trivial

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:38 AM
Great post Volcana...:wavey:

Lynx
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:58 AM
Volcana, I think there IS racism at the core of the "She looks like me, I'll root for her"-reasoning. If a white crowd would be rooting for a player ONLY BECAUSE she's white (and you may replace "white" with "black" or "Asian"), then they are being racist imo - however mildly.

Like when I root for a Belgian player (being Belgian myself) only because he/she is Belgian, I'm being nationalistic. Only... I don't think being nationalistic in sports is wrong: it adds some spice. I DO think being racist in sports is wrong, however.

That being said, I agree with you that crying "wolf" all the time is only pissing everybody off. I know I've had it with all those race-threads with their endless bickering.

"Why don't we save accusing people of 'racism' for times when we at least are willing to make a detailed case for the accusation, backed up by facts?" Second that! :)

Shane54
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:16 AM
Good post Volcana. I never understand if racism is the case. How come the crowds love Chanda Rubin. I work out at the same club as her in Lafayette. And everytime I see her she looks African American to me...

And would it be racism that alot of posters here only got interested in tennis and root for Venus and Serena based on their skin color. Racism goes both ways.....And one can say well Venus and Serena are so nice...Well, how come your favorite player is not Seles, Clijsters, or Coetzer. Be consistent....

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:20 AM
Definitely an outstanding post but kind of surprised TopShotta agreed with you......he is one that cries racism often........

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Jakeev
Definitely an outstanding post but kind of surprised TopShotta agreed with you......he is one that cries racism often........

Your are a damn lier...:rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:31 AM
khkung is really retarded! Does he say anything intelligent? Venus with no fans and unpopular? Is that why reebok paid her forty million? uh huh, what are you an idiot?

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:33 AM
Oh no I damn not TopSHotta. You are the QUEEN instigator when it comes to these topics.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Jakeev
Oh no I damn not TopSHotta. You are the QUEEN instigator when it comes to these topics.

If you really read my post you would come away with the realization that I spit in the face of racism. Brush it off like a bugg. I have always said you and your likes can never do anything to affect my life because I am in fact much better than you in every way...So, no cry of racism from me. I just let people like you know what I think of you and that you not fooling me. Now bugg off and go mess with someone else you retard. :wavey:

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:41 AM
Takes a big retard youself to call me one little boy. You spit in the face of racism? You are better than me in every way? Yeah right.

You really need to stop making yourself seem like an innocent around here young but very BIG fool. I see right through you.

Now go play on the freeway on a skateboard and leave the messageboard to actual intelligent people. :bounce:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:45 AM
You have been defeated now be gone...:wavey:

TopShotta d. Jakpeev 6-0 6-0...:bounce: :bounce:

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:50 AM
Huh, actually TopShitta I came from behind and defeated you 0-6, 0-6, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 and with out the loss of a point after losing the second set.

Your playing with the big boys now little man....

:bounce: :cool:

Tennisfan-Mtl
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:56 AM
Honestly, I'm sure (even though I can't prove it) that a big % of Williams admirers are Black...I'm certain that a lot of them support them because they're Black...It might be a question of pride, or a question of race...But I think you have to be blind to think that the color of the Sisters' skin has nothing to do with their popularity...

Philbo
Jan 21st, 2003, 07:11 AM
Good post Volcana...

fhkung = loser

Aussie crowds have absolutely nothing against black people BECAUSE of their skin colour, some of our most loved champions are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander etc... The overriding factor of the crowd support is that the crowd in Australia goes for the underdog, followed by, imo, a mixture of not wanting to see 'yet' another Williams final....and maybe just possibly, the general perception some fringe fans have of Venus and Serena being 'cocky'.. aussies generally dont like that...

""She looks like me, I'll root for her" is not a line of reasoning I find offensive. Short-sighted? Yes. Offensive? Please"

Good comment Volcana, cuz I can bet a lot of Venus and Serena's african american fans are fans of V + S to a degree, because they can relate to them more being black...i.e she looks like me, I'll root for her"...

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 10:35 AM
Philbo weren't the sisters hugely possible for the Olympics in Sydney?

From what I understood they were two of the most sought after athletes at the games, from fans and atheletes alike.

HingisLove
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:02 AM
Great post Volcana
Tennisfan-Mtl, I'm sure some people do and they have every right to do so, however I think that the sisters wouldn't be as popular as they are if they didn't produce winner after winner.

Greenout
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:23 AM
Interesting. From all the Aussie tv commentary-
it just seems to me as an American that they're
worried about sounding racist. So..I suppose I'm
talking about a reverse racism. lol. Saying over
the top fawning comments after the very fact that
Serena, and Venus have taken over the top tier of
tennis.

I'm just thinking back to AO 1999 when Venus lost
her beads, and had the point taken away. I didn't
get the vibe from reading the newspapers that people
were that sympathetic to Venus out of the USA nor
were they understanding when Serena lost her match
in the early rounds. I do recall seeing in print, and in
tv commentary about being un-smart by not playing
any warm up tournaments.

I'm pretty neutral toward Venus, and Serena. It's just
something I noticed.

I like Justine; but again- we're hearing this the Belgians
will "save us from another Williams final" type remarks.
I just find it tiring hearing, and reading there remarks from
sports writers, and so called renown tennis critics. It
doesn't bother me anymore- what's the difference between
the dominance of Steffi, Hingis, Agassi, Sampras, etc..
in their time anyway. It's not the sports fault that every
now and again a couple people totally dominate. It's not
a team effort-it's a solo effort. We should just sit back
and applaud these special people who just seem to
dominate their peers, contemporaries, and rivals.

PEACE, and CHEERS!!

Mags
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Greenout
It doesn't bother me anymore- what's the difference between
the dominance of Steffi, Hingis, Agassi, Sampras, etc..
in their time anyway. It's not the sports fault that every
now and again a couple people totally dominate. It's not
a team effort-it's a solo effort. We should just sit back
and applaud these special people who just seem to
dominate their peers, contemporaries, and rivals.

PEACE, and CHEERS!!

Greenout....ditto to your comment!. :)

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2003, 02:37 PM
Aussie crowds have absolutely nothing against black people BECAUSE of their skin colour, some of our most loved champions are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander etc...

Czechfan - please forgive the comparison, but if Dawn Marie sees this, her response won't be as restrained. That's 'some of my best friends are Black' arguement. The two things have no bearing. Michael Jordan's popularity doesn't mean there's no racism in the United States.

The long sad history of relationship between the aboriginal peoples of Australia and the colonists is pretty well known. And much like the USA, a couple of champions of color in mo way means equality among the masses.

There's a reason why the Indigenous Peoples and Racism Conference (http://racismconference.com/2001/program22.html) in 2001 was in Sydney. Australia has a lot of 'indigenous people' and a lot of 'racism'

Philbo
Jan 22nd, 2003, 10:51 AM
Volcana - How condescending and patronising can you be?

Firstly, I dont really give a rats arse what Dawn Maree says, I can handle anything she can dish, and secondly I stand by my statement ....

"The long sad history of relationship between the aboriginal peoples of Australia and the colonists is pretty well known. And much like the USA, a couple of champions of color in mo way means equality among the masses"

WHere in my post was I talking about racism in australia in general?? I brought up one specific issue of australians attitudes towards coloured athletes and can think of many examples of coloured athletes in australia who are crowd favourites - this refutes the insinuation that Venus and Serena were cheered against for being black..No need to condescend to me about the aboriginals and colonisation or about Jordans popularity meaning equality etc please.. we are talking about a tennis court in 2003, not the invasion of europeans into aboriginal-owned australia.

"There's a reason why the Indigenous Peoples and Racism Conference in 2001 was in Sydney. Australia has a lot of 'indigenous people' and a lot of 'racism'"

Gee thanks for pointing out that GROUNDBREAKING information to me, racism exists in australia like anywhere volcana, but it wasnt the reason Venus and Serena got cheered against just like you said....

Sharapower
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:23 AM
Will we ever be done about the racial debate around the Williams sisters :rolleyes: ?

What you, Williams fanatics, must understand is that, generally, the public, anywhere, will rather cheer for the underdog than for the favourite.

Remember the RG 1999 final, Martina Hingis was really booed by the french public. I know the story is more complex than that, with martina walking into Graff's court-side but the main point is that the public was against the one who was supposed to be dominating, race or colour has nothing to do with that.

As far as I watched on TV, except the Indian Wells episode, no public from any country have shown the sisters any hostility comparable to what happenned to Martina in RG.

Even in that IW episode I'm not quite sure that the concern was racial. The public was just upset that, having paied for their seat, they were deprived of a promising semi-final. Maybe Venus was really injured but maybe too Richard Williams fixed the match who knows ?

If there is an all-Williams final you can be sure that the public will be cheering more for Venus than for Serena, and believe me, it's not because Venus's skin is darker than Serena's.;)

servenrichie
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:58 AM
quasimodo the world would be a very beautiful place, if things were that quite simple. For some people it is easier to hide behind such simple explanations. I wont even blame you for looking for an easier way out. The reality my friend is quite harsh.

Halardfan
Jan 22nd, 2003, 01:58 PM
Its such a complex area...

In the end, while I agree very much with Volcana's general sentiment...Im not sure I go along with the thought that its forgivable to root for someone based on their skin color...certainly not if its white cheering for white...and while it is more understandlable that it might take place for black people to cheer for someone because they share their own skin colour (In a white dominated area like Tennis), I have some problems with it too...

We should try to get to a place where its no more relevant in rooting for a player than their shoe size...naive maybe, but it shouldn't matter, and I know it doesn't matter to me...or, I hope to the vast majority of people on this board.

Im not, in general, a great Williams enthusiast, but I know there is not one single part of me that bases that on skin colour,or roots for their opponents becuae they might be white...I think it would be deeply wrong if I did.

Infiniti2001
Jan 22nd, 2003, 02:13 PM
What you, Williams fanatics, must understand is that, generally, the public, anywhere, will rather cheer for the underdog than for the favourite.

What hogwash!!! Wasn't Myskina the underdog in the match against clijsters???

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:38 PM
Thought you'll might be interested in this.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/01/14/name.bias.ap/index.html

Study: It helps to have a 'white' name
Tuesday, January 14, 2003 Posted: 8:07 PM EST (0107 GMT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- It helps to have a white-sounding first name when looking for work, a new study has found.

Resumes with white-sounding first names elicited 50 percent more responses than ones with black-sounding names, according to a study by professors at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The professors sent about 5,000 resumes in response to want ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune. They found that the "white" applicants they created received one response -- a call, letter or e-mail -- for every 10 resumes mailed, while "black" applicants with equal credentials received one response for every 15 resumes sent.

The study authors, including University of Chicago associate professor of economics Marianne Bertrand, said the results can solely be attributed to name manipulation.

"Our results so far suggest that there is a substantial amount of discrimination in the job recruiting process," they wrote.

The professors analyzed birth certificates in coming up with what names to use. The white names included Neil, Brett, Greg, Emily, Anne and Jill. Some of the black names used were Tamika, Ebony, Aisha, Rasheed, Kareem and Tyrone.

Companies that purported to be equal opportunity employers were no more likely to respond to black resumes than other businesses, the study found.

Carolyn Nordstrom, president of Chicago United, a group that seeks to increase corporate diversity, said the study shows the need to educate those that make hiring decisions.

"We like to believe that this has changed, but this is evidence that it hasn't," she said.

way
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Volcana

The term 'racist' implies the crowd somehow though less of Venus becuase she's Black, and more of Dani because she's White.



Yes, that's the bottom line.
Spot on, Volcana!

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:53 PM
This comes on tonight on PBS at 9pm eastern standard time

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20030119/D7OLDV8O0.html


PBS Show Examines Lasting Racial Divide


Email this Story

Jan 19, 12:25 PM (ET)

By COLIN FLY

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Two segregated film crews, one black and one white, used the perspective of race to create a documentary centered on the dragging death of a black man by three whites five years ago in Jasper, Texas.

The New York filmmakers behind the "Two Towns of Jasper" found the differences in perspective before filming began and the divide only grew more distinct during the two-year project.

Whitney Dow, who's white, and Marco Williams, who's black, attended Ivy League schools and have been friends for more than 20 years. After James Byrd Jr. was killed in Jasper, Dow was appalled and surprised, while Williams was neither.

"With our differences so vivid, I thought that by collaborating with Whitney on a film about race, one that embraced the idea that black and white Americans see the world differently, we might be able to be part of bridging that difference," Williams said in an interview with PBS, which airs the documentary Wednesday on its film series "Point of View."


The film, selected for the Sundance Film Festival last year, was screened in six cities last week, including Nashville, in advance of the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. Oprah Winfrey and ABC's Nightline planned to devote shows to it on Tuesday and Thursday, respectively.

Dow and Williams separately interviewed whites and blacks in Jasper, a timber town of about 8,000 people 100 miles northwest of Houston. What they found was a town that professed unity but was split under the surface by a racial divide built on mistrust.

Byrd, 49, was on his way home from a party when he crossed the path of Shawn Allen Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer and John William King. The three had been out drinking when they spotted Byrd early on June 7, 1998.

They took him to a country road, beat him, chained him to their truck by his ankles, and dragged him for more than two miles until he was dismembered and decapitated.

Brewer and King were convicted and sentenced to death for the murder, while Berry received life in prison.

Jasper County Sheriff Billy Rowles recalls that night in the film's opening narration, saying he "knew it was a black man dead, hoping that a black man had killed him."

Those interviewed in the movie include a group of self-proclaimed white "bubbas" who meet each morning at the Belle-Jim Hotel for breakfast, and a group of black women at a beauty parlor.

"He ought to be judged for the way he lived, not the way he died," one of the "bubbas," Freddie Warren, says of Byrd.

Margena Gardiner, one the beauty parlor women, faulted her own race for not getting angry enough when Byrd was killed.

"Blacks didn't rage. We didn't burn things, we didn't go out and do an eye for an eye," she said.

The racial divide was also evident when Dow and Williams interviewed white workers at the same body shop a few weeks apart. Dow got different answers than Williams. By the time Williams got there, "they had changed their names. They had changed who owned the shop and where they were from," Dow said. "The basic distrust was so strong there."

Some whites in Jasper said they were angry over the negative attention the crime brought, and seemed surprised that such brutality could have occurred in their town. An avowed white supremacist, however, said he wasn't surprised and saw the murder as a commentary on the true relationship between blacks and whites.

Black residents said Byrd's death was an extreme expression of racism that exists in Jasper. When whites rushed to bring the killers to justice, black residents felt that was just to save the town's reputation.

Yet, neither whites nor blacks do much to bridge the divide. The film shows a cemetery, for example, where a fence once divided the graves of whites from blacks. It was removed only after the national media attention Jasper received after Byrd's murder. The graves, however, remain segregated.

The directors said they hope viewers take away from the film a new perspective on why races relate the way they do.

"I hope the film shows how vastly different worlds we live in and that sometimes, on both sides, the malicious intent that is seen from the other really isn't there," Dow said.

---

GoGoMaggie
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:59 PM
I'm hungry...mom

servenrichie
Jan 23rd, 2003, 01:28 PM
I can imagine that gogomaggie. You did not understand the above articles, hence the dumb comment. Try and understand it well, before making ignorant comments about 'racism' not existing or existing only little the as you have written many times in other threads!

Asdfqwer
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:03 AM
nice post, i just like to bring something up

i think the hating of the williams sisters isnt totally due to people being racists

take chanda rubin for example. I don't think she has any haters whatsoever and she's got tons of white fans. why? easy answer, she's not cocky in anyway and doesn't say a lot of controversial stuff.

it has been known to the general public that the williams sisters are "arrogant", "bad sports" etc. so obviously people will already have a bad impression on them. and when yo'ure dominating so much and with so much swagger, people just simply want you to lose. it just so happens that they're black and that they're not extremely popular, so it really doesn't mean that the crowd is racist

Averylove
Jan 24th, 2003, 02:52 AM
it has been known to the general public that the williams sisters are "arrogant", "bad sports" etc. so obviously people will already have a bad impression on them. and when yo'ure dominating so much and with so much swagger, people just simply want you to lose. it just so happens that they're black and that they're not extremely popular, so it really doesn't mean that the crowd is racist

The above comments just shows How much Racism is in the World

lets Disect the above comments He said Chanda Rubin is Loved by whites because she is non threatning with her Blackness as compared to the Williams sisters which is obvious to those of us who have a pro black meaning "I'm Black and Im proud ' type of stance ! Chanda does not Have the Muhammad Ali type of Flair Like the sisters and We all know what Type of Athlete "Ali" was

Whites only like "Humble type of Black sports stars the ones with hankerchief in hand and saying yes'ar boss " so that they may feel good! The sisters Come from a Black and I'm Proud Type of Family and it is shown to the world for all to see and thats why they meaning Whites and there Afropeans Flunkys will point out thier Arrogance for some strange reason or "Look for a Flaw" in thier character so to speak !

Blacks from the Ghetto to the mansions that have strong Black upbringing Loook at the sisters not because thier Black so to speak , but because they win with such flair thats why !
Black athletes are the only ones who can invent a "style " of Play that the whole world can appreciate and adore !

When he said General public he was talking about whites in general and not blacks who Like the williams style of play and effort ....Whites hate the Williams sisters because they see a real precieve threat and are threatning to them ! While Us that are of african decent Love the very presence of the Sisters because we know that they are a threat to whites also and we Love that !
Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson put style in the game and so do the Williams ! Whites will have to accept this fact !
thats why a lot of Williams fans are on the defensive because we know Whites speak with Fork tongue so to speak !

Philbo
Jan 24th, 2003, 03:08 AM
Avery - But if people dislike WHITE COCKY, ARROGANT people just as much, does that not mean the Williams are being treated the same as everyone else?

Philbo
Jan 24th, 2003, 03:09 AM
I mean look at Hingis, when she made some 'cocky' statements earlier in her career, she was vilified...

So how is it racist that V + S get the same treatment she got?

Fingon
Jan 24th, 2003, 03:25 AM
Averylove, where do I start?


lets Disect the above comments He said Chanda Rubin is Loved by whites because she is non threatning with her Blackness as compared to the Williams sisters which is obvious to those of us who have a pro black meaning "I'm Black and Im proud ' type of stance ! Chanda does not Have the Muhammad Ali type of Flair Like the sisters and We all know what Type of Athlete "Ali" was


what exactly does threatening with her "blackness" mean?, how can I be threated by someone's skin colour, or culture, or customs?

So, Chanda is a nice girl, and that is wrong, she has to be nasty, arrogant, selfish (I am not saying the Williams are, just pointing the "wrongs" in Chanda). So, under your idea being just nice is a bad thing, a real "black" has to be nasty, interesting concept that surely does a lot to leave racism behind :rolleyes:

Second, Ali wasn't a great athlete because he was arrogant, cocky or nasty, or because he was black, he was a great athlete because he was physically gifted, and worked hard, there have been great white athletes and even though certain races can be better at certain sports (this is not the place to analize that), there isn't anything related to behaviour.

Third, why would I feel threatened by the Williams sisters? at most they will kill me of boredom and I will turn the TV off, I love tennis but it isn't my life and I am not going to "fight" to defend it from a supposed "black conspiracy".

Basketball is dominated mostly by black athletes and I don't see the big deal with it.

maybe whites do speak with "fork tongue" (whatever that means) but when I see people like you, consumed by hatred and considering a personal triumph if someone that happens to be of the same skin colour wins, I find it quite sad.

I was born in a country where racism isn't the same as in the US, the black population is very tiny. I wasn't a "master", nobody in my family has been, I think what happened and still happens to black in the US and other parts is terrible and sad, but not all whites are responsible for that, and I absolutely refuse to be punished for what someone else, with my same skin colour did.

There are a lot of sterotypes about blacks, like when you see a white woman holding her purse tighter because a black guy is near her, or when the police arrests someone just because he is black. I think that's wrong and I don't have those stereotypes myself but, listening to people like you really makes me think, it's obvious you hate whites, I am white, you hate me, so, maybe I am starting to think about it now.

disposablehero
Jan 24th, 2003, 04:10 AM
Ouch. Give that match to Fingon 6-3 6-0.

servenrichie
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:13 AM
Bulls! Hingis was hated by Williams fans on the old sanex board, not by the general public and certainly not by journalists and commentators. If anything she was a genius and she 'tells it as it is' and they could not get enough of kissing her ass! (which is why the poor girl is having problems now that she does not seem to be important again)

Asdfqwer- Venus and Serena were geting the same treatment long before they started winning, so try again!

Fingon i didnt read your post sorry, i knew what you were going to write anyway.

There is still a lot of racism in this world, so why do some of you believe it has got nothing to do with the way Venus and Serena are treated?

HellanSpicen
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:42 AM
When Hingis made those comments and said racist stuff was she hated by the media only. It seems that only the media said stuff about her. But the Sisters have alot of hate and animosity coming from even the players. I'm sorry, but Hingis wasn't disliked by all.
And she caused most of her problems with her mouth. Where have Venus and Serena been disrespectful. Just because a player says they want to be a champion and the best they are viewed as cocky. Tiger Woods said the same thing and they said he was cocky, but Tiger is another thing altogether. Tiger is on the peace loving trip. Didn't they say Tiger was bad for golf and now they are saying Venus and Serena are also. But have these questions been given to others atelthes who are non-black. The game is corrupt and that usually happens when a black athlete usually is winning. Venus and Serena only have a small window of opportunity to win tournaments before the next new thing comes around. When Steffi was winning noone said she was bad for the sport. When Steffi and Monica was winning very few others players had the chance to win, so what's is all the fuss about now. And Steffi and Monica hardly had that many great epic battles. So Please.. Spare me. Tennis has it's best ratings ever..yet people are still complaining, people will never be satisfied.

Philbo
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:58 AM
Martina Hingis got booed by crowds around the world, and 'heckled' more times than Ive seen it occur to venus or Serena after FO 99 - anywhere in the world, if she questioned calls etc the crowd would LEAP onto her...heck I did it myself at Sydney 2001 vs Davenport!!lol

So stop acting like victims Williams fans, Venus and Serena dont feel or act liek victims, dunno why their fans have such a tendency to.....

servenrichie
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:10 AM
Czechfan - you go to such extents with flimsy examples to proove it's got nothing to do with racism. Hingis was booed for a reason. I have never seen players who handle themselves with more class both in and outside the court like Venus and Serena, yet they get flacks and you dare to compare them to Martina.

Nobody here is talking about being a victim, we are talking about what is right and what is wrong. You, especially have criticised and villified Venus and Serena (back in the old sanex board) that one believes you must have a baggage.
Remember, it is about what is right and what is wrong, not about victims mentality or whatever you call it, whenever you have run out of valid arguments!

GoGoMaggie
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:13 AM
I think racism does exsit anywhere in the world.. but I have no problem with most of the black ppl but cant stand some of the willams fans that waste time showing off to fans of other players. dont you ever get satisfied??? why do you have to launch so many purposeless threads but to show off??

servenrichie
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:00 AM
If there is honestly one person who lauch 'purposeless threads' gogomaggie, look in the mirror.
Who gives a fuck who you can stand? And who the hell do you think you are?

GoGoMaggie
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:31 PM
I at least dont start a thread that s intended to piss others.

servenrichie
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Oh you do buddy, eg "should grunting be banned?"
How dumb can that one be. I dont have time to start compiling them. Go on list them out yourself...

Experimentee
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Good post Volcana. I've never seen anyone saying that they were booed because they were black, but thats just stupid if its true.
I'm sure theres some people in the world that hold the sisters to a higher standard because of their race, but I actually think theres more a problem with women being held to a higher standard than men. For example I know if the Williams sisters were men they would be admired for their power and athleticism, and they wouldnt be constantly put down for 'overpowering' their opponents.

GoGoMaggie
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie
Oh you do buddy, eg "should grunting be banned?"
How dumb can that one be. I dont have time to start compiling them. Go on list them out yourself...

that was just my opinion as i found some player's grutnings quite annoying n nozy. wasnt meant to direct at any player in particular n anger anyone.. so that was just your interpretation but you were wrong, totally. but some of the treads willams fans have started in the joy of another all willams final are definitely made the way they are intended to show off which is very mean.

servenrichie
Jan 24th, 2003, 03:14 PM
just like a lot of others that were made to prevent the finals, you my friend are guilty of having made at least 3 of such. Now you are whining...

GoGoMaggie
Jan 24th, 2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie
just like a lot of others that were made to prevent the finals, you my friend are guilty of having made at least 3 of such. Now you are whining...

who are you??