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Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Racist Louts Should Get the Boot (http://waymoresports.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=waymoresports/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1026146486681&call_page=WM_Home&call_pageid=979619472127&call_pagepath=Home/Home)

If football is laying fines on clubs for the behaviour of fans, couldn't tennis lean on tournaments a bit more?

Racist louts should get boot
Oct. 17, 2002. 08:41 AM
By Norman Da Costa
SPORTS REPORTER

Here we go again.

The new European season has barely kicked off and the racists and hooligans are back in full force.

In the last two months there has been crowd trouble in England, Greece, Italy, Belgium, the Netherlands and even tiny Switzerland and, as the season goes on, one can expect the violence to worsen.

Both FIFA and UEFA, the governing body of European soccer, have said they will not sit idly by and allow this to problem to mushroom. But unless they take a tougher line instead of dishing out fines that amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrists of the clubs and national associations it will go on unabated.

What is of a greater worry is the rise in racist taunts being directed at players.

Two weeks ago Arsenal's French stars Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira had objects thrown at them and were taunted throughout a Champions League match versus PSV Eindhoven.

UEFA slapped the Dutch club with a measly fine of $20,000 (all figures U.S.). This was a disgrace, especially when one considers that PSV has an awful track record when it comes to crowd trouble and racism.

Other fines handed out to Yugoslavia's FC Sartid and FC Brugges of Belgium were also laughable.

Sartid was ordered to pay a mere $17,000 after Ipswich Town's black players were the target of racial taunts and Brugges was hit for $15,000 after its fans meted out racial abuse to a Lokomotiv Moscow player last month.

Judging by these fines one wonders whether UEFA is at all concerned at the abuse players have to endure since it has been forceful with clubs whose fans have displayed violent behaviour.

Last week it ordered the Netherlands' Utrecht club and Georgia's Dinamo Tbilisi to play their next UEFA Cup matches in empty stadiums. This was after Utrecht's fans threw objects on the field and burned seats in the 3-1 loss to Poland's Legia Warsaw.

Dinamo's fans flung objects on to the field in the game against Czech club Slovan Liberac and an official was hit by a rock.

UEFA says it will meet early next month and come up with a new plan to stop the escalation.

Meanwhile, FIFA president Sepp Blatter says it is about time that this nonsense be stopped.

"We have talked about it, we have put those words into action. But now I think it is time for us to take our efforts to a higher level and lead the fight against discrimination in football with renewed vigour," said Blatter.

Players on national teams have not been immune to the racist taunts either.

Last week English officials said that the incidents against black players Emile Heskey and Ashley Cole were the worst they had ever seen in the 2-1 Euro qualifying win against Slovakia in Bratislava.

The crowd got on the case of the two players with a litany of chants and racial taunts and the English FA promptly demanded and received an apology from the Slovaks.

The game was also marred by crowd trouble between Slovak and English fans and riot police used batons on the visiting supporters.

UEFA has acted in a quick and efficient manner to hit the clubs where it hurts most for the violent behaviour of its fans, but why does it not apply the same punishment to the clubs and national associations when it comes down to the racist louts?

It is time for racism to be booted out of soccer.

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Yes it's a soccer article, but it's still a good idea.

venusfan
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:12 PM
OMG... you Europeans cant control yourselves at sporting events? oh boy..

auntie janie
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Agreed. Terrible to let that despicable behavior continue. To not take it seriously and really hit them where it hurts ($$$) is to tacitly endorse it.

Halardfan
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Racism in football, and hoolignaism in general, (I can't bring myself to use the word soccer too much, sorry!;)) has ebbed and flowed over the years, just recently it seems to be on the rise again...

Oddly enough though, England, perhaps THE country most would associate with Football Hooliganaism, is actually on the reciveing end in most of the cases mentioned in the report...

The authorities here have been strict and have done all they can to be rid of the problem, and have had measure of success, but I fear we will never rid of a very small minority of 'fans' at pretty much every club, who are mindless, often racist scum.

There is no place for them in football, or indeed society, lock them up, let them rot.

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:36 PM
I did a few thinks for Kick It Out (a campaign done by the Kick Racism Out of Football action group, Kick it Out was aimed at young people), and there are many English clubs who do work immensely hard to stop racism, Charlton Athletic are the benchmark for all clubs, they do some excellent work, Northampton Town also lead the way and Millwall, a club that has been tarnished as England's most racist football club are trying to give their club a good name (which seems like an impossible task)

But like what Chris Ba said, you can work so hard to eliminate the problem, and leaps and bounds have been made on making football a more diverse sport in England (maybe not enough but we've come a long way from the 70's when there were only a handful of black players playing in England), but like in every walk of life you have this hardcore minority of mindless bigots. It's not just top flight footy either, watching my local side Belper up at Workington Reds this season, monkey noises were directed from a group in the crowd at our (now former) striker Leroy Chambers, I mean u feel like saying something then and there cos it gets you so freakin mad, but they aren't worth it.

I second what Chris says, let em rot.

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:39 PM
my mother has two new little dogs pinkie and roefie. one is black and the other is white and they are from the same mother and father. I wished such thing was possible in the human race too.

not that it would make a difference probably :rolleyes:

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:48 PM
The authorities here have been strict and have done all they can to be rid of the problem

Chris Ba - The point of the article seems to be (and you're free to disagree, of course) that the authorities there have NOT been strict and have NOT done all they can to be rid of the problem. Not taking sides, you're both there and here, but the entire point of the article, from the title on down, is that the authorities need to do more.

A simple, 'throw them out of the stadium, and ban them for two years' policy would improve things. Tennis fans are thankfully less violent (though Monica would disagree), but as somebody Black, I can tell you that being surrounded by ten thousand white people screaming for blood is a recurring nightmare, and one that was all too real in America in my lifetime.

Football in Europe has an advantage. It's so damn popular that UEFA actually CAN order matches played in empty stadiums, without killing the club. Emptying the stadium at Indian Wells and playing the final in front of no fans would have been ideal at Indian Wells two year ago, but the tournament would never survive that.

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:54 PM
Volcana, most English clubs dont issue two year bans, they issue life bans from the ground, and in extreme cases the Football Association can ban a person from every single pofessional and semi-professional ground in the country...

But yeah I do agree, there is a lot more to be done, yes it is stricter, yes a lot has been done and credit has to be given for that, but we're a long way from stamping it out.

Sophie
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:59 PM
Australia's cricketers have been warned about improving their behaviour following Darren Lehmann's five-match ban over his racist outburst and several other incidents involving team mates.
Australia's one-day captain Ricky Ponting said the players were told to start behaving better after a meeting with Australian Cricket Board chairman James Sutherland on Monday.

"A talking-to today from James won't hurt us at all," Ponting told reporters.

"I suppose with Darren the other day...it was just a bit of a wake-up for all of us, you are in the public eye all the time and you've got to be very careful what you say and what you do all of the time.

"You can't let yourself slip up at all and we've just had a few slip-ups the last couple of weeks."

Lehmann was suspended for five matches after being found guilty of breaching the sport's strict code of conduct. He had been overheard making an offensive remark after being dismissed in a limited-overs match with Sri Lanka last week.

Earlier this month, two other senior Australian players were found guilty of misbehaving in the final Ashes test with England.

Opening batsman Matthew Hayden was fined for smashing the glass door leading to the players' changing room and wicketkeeper Adam Gilchrist was reprimanded for swearing.

"It's something we can address as a team," Ponting said.

"We've said for the last couple of years that we want to be known as good people and not just good players.

"We can improve it. It actually has been a pretty conscious thing from the team."



Cricket has it's problems as well. They certainly don't come across as actually repentant here, just sorry Lehmann got banned.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 20th, 2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by irma
my mother has two new little dogs pinkie and roefie. one is black and the other is white and they are from the same mother and father. I wished such thing was possible in the human race too.

not that it would make a difference probably :rolleyes:

Irma, that was beautiful...:kiss:

Very Idealistic and cute...:hearts:

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 10:15 PM
Irma - That IS possible for humans. It happens in the united States all the time. Blacks and Whites are not different species, though American textbooks taught that they were for a long time.


There's a phenomena in the United States called 'passing'. That is when a Black person is so pale, they can pass for white. Black people this pale would move someplace they weren't known, and 'pass' as white. That person would have brothers and sisters darker than I am. Or my great-uncle Johnny, who had blue eyes and was so pale you almost thought he was white passing as Black. Only he chose to stay home, live as Black, and suffer the resulting discrimination.

It was a form of 'being in the closet'. You hide one small aspect of your total being, and suddenly you're treated with respect instead of villified.

So would it make a difference? Look around the USA and you tell me.

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 10:22 PM
maybe my point was more that with animals nobody cares what colors they have. while humans do. shows how stupid we are.

I know blacks and whites can have children together;)
what I know too is (well I saw a talkshow about that) that those children often feel worse since they get accepted even less :rolleyes:

CJ07
Jan 20th, 2003, 11:14 PM
I think thats a sham theres still racism out there

a big shame

Pinkie
Jan 21st, 2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by irma
my mother has two new little dogs pinkie and roefie.

a dog named after me :eek: Not sure if I'm feeling the compliment, Irma ;)

More to the point, most sports could do with anti-racism campaigns. When the going gets though, the threatened often get racist.

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2003, 12:34 AM
irma - Among my friends and relatives, they all seem to think being bi-racial is pretty cool. I suppose it's a matter of how you're raised and how people treat you.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 21st, 2003, 12:45 AM
Thierry Henry, Patrick Viera (two of THE GREATEST footballers of the past years) and Emile Heskey have received some total shit from racist biggots. Also, I know Lazio fans have been racist of late. It's so sad, so sad. This is why I am scared to go to Belgium or anywhere in Europe. I mean, I know there aren't racists and far-right extremists everywhere, but still, I mean, you never know who wants your head!! I was talking to a Belgian Kim fan on-line the other day, and he asked me if I get persecuted! That's very sad about the state of some places in Europe just by that question

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 21st, 2003, 01:19 AM
Lazio fans (not all, but quite a few) are just basic right wing fascists! They unveil huge banners with Nordic horsemen on and Celtic crosses, symbols associated with fascism (not directly but they do it so they can portray their message indirectly)

Mrs Guga, I like the way you said Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira are two of the best footballers in the world, and then mention Emile Heskey :)

gentenaire
Jan 21st, 2003, 06:37 AM
Mrs Guga, maybe that question was directed at the situation in the USA? You'll be safe here in Belgium, don't worry about it.

As for those morons, those hooligans, they will always find a reason to shout abuse at the football players. To David Beckham they shout that they hope his kid gets cancer, to black players it's easier to find an insult.

Halardfan
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:18 AM
I was just saying Volcana that if I were to say what country would the wider world associate with Football hoolignaism in general (and by extension, racial abuse) I think England would come out on top...and that these days it might not be a fair impression because the English FA and out football clubs have taken a hard line on such things...

As I mentioned, in the racist incidents mentioned in the report the one which regard England or English clubs (Ipswich and Arsenal) are cases were foreign fans have taunted our players, rather than vice versa....

As Joey mentioned anyone engaging in racist taunting is frequently banned for life here, as they should be.

About Henry...I think he is THE best player in the world, and should he want to join Anelka at Maine Road, he is more than welcome. :) ;)

Lynx
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:50 AM
Mrs Guga - what Tine said. I'm pretty certain the question was directed at the situation in the USA (we hear gruesome stories about your part of the world!), and I'm also certain you wouldn't have much to fear in Belgium, not more than the average Belgian. Since crime rate is much lower than in the US, you would indeed be very safe here... so do come!! You're welcome!

The rest of what Tine said is true also. I HATE football (soccer) because of the hooligan-problem and the verbal abuse. It didn't use to be like that...

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2003, 11:59 AM
I noticed something very quickly in this thread, and kept quiet about it til today, mostly to make sure it wasn't just chance. Virtually any thread about racial taunts or white supremacy assaults in the USA or about tennis very quickly get someone in it saying some version of 'it isn't a problem anymore', 'it isn't really about race', 'you shouldn't even bring it up', 'stop being a victim' etc.

This thread center on football, and is outside the States. And has stayed civil, for the most part. It certainly hasn't descended into personal insults. Football is the most popular sport in the world, so there ought to be a few fans around, so it isn't that no one here cares about football.

I'm not drawing a conclusion there. Not enough data. But it IS striking that there's so little acrimony and contention in this thread, given the subject matter. (I really hope I didn't jinx it.)

-Sonic-
Jan 21st, 2003, 12:06 PM
holy moly, Northampton town was mentioned.

WTA_freak
Jan 21st, 2003, 01:54 PM
Yeah Volcana – another racism related thread. You seem to love that thing lately. ;)

Cassius
Jan 21st, 2003, 02:24 PM
Lazio fans (not all, but quite a few) are just basic right wing fascists! They unveil huge banners with Nordic horsemen on and Celtic crosses, symbols associated with fascism (not directly but they do it so they can portray their message indirectly)
Roma are called AS Roma, but Lazio (for whatever reason) are called SS Lazio.
How apt:rolleyes:

In the whole of that article, the racist problems in Yugoslav or Polish football was never mentioned, which I'm very suprised about.

Halardfan
Jan 21st, 2003, 02:43 PM
The organized far-right does have role role ay many English clubs...but it tends to be a case of a literal handful of hardcore 'people' with neo-nazi leanings, who try to organize and stir up trouble between rival fan groups...thse days, policing and closed circuit TV in the stadiums themselves has been generally effective, so that such incidents are more likely to happen going to or from a game...

But at somewhere like Lazio, in Rome, one of Europe's biggest clubs, the problem is of a different scale entirely...Ive seen pictures of a whole sea of people at their games, thousand upon thousands chanting facsist slogans...indeed in the documentry I saw the clubs most influential fans come from this group, the club often seem to crumble to them over who is picked in the team, who is signed for the team, what kind of player...

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 21st, 2003, 03:40 PM
Chris, I presume you saw the same documentary that I did, I couldn't believe the club's vice president actually said they could put that banner up before the match, and what made it more ridiculous was they had PA systems in the ground where some bloke with a microphone would shout fascist crap. I thought our hooligan problem was bad, it's a thousand miles away from that.

I think they had Lilian Thuram on that programme and he was gonna be sold to Lazio but he wouldn't go cos of the sheer abuse.

Halardfan
Jan 21st, 2003, 09:25 PM
Yes Joey, it must have been the same show we saw...shocking to see such things at such a famous club...though even at my beloved Man City there is a hooligan racist element...Ive never understood such people and I never will.

Volcana, with regards to the point you made, I think it may be that in tennis racism is usually much more subtle ,more open to debate over meanings and interpretations...I won't even repeat what these louts say or do at football matches, but they indugle in stark racist behaviour that no one in their right mind could see as anything else.

It is usually more complex in tennis, much quieter, harder to call...there are grey areas, suspicions and maybe's...its this grey area in which a lot of battles are fought on this board!