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View Full Version : Nice side effect of Kim being #1


Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:37 PM
Which she isn't yet, of course. But if she makes it this year, then suddenly we'll see the same level of anti-Kim threads and posts that we see as anti-Venus or anti-Serena posts now. This willonce and for all debunk the myth that a significant portion of all the anti-Williams sentiment is race-based.

One we see a White #1 generating as much negative ink as Black #1, all this talk of racial bias in tennis will cease.

Glenn
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:42 PM
Yay!

The Crow
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:53 PM
You generalise way too much.

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:58 PM
You'll see Crow. I'm right. BTW, which of the 'Crow' movies, if any, did you prefer. I'm most partial to the first one.

GoDominique
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:58 PM
How true, Volcana.

Of course we know there won't be any anti-Kim sentiments. I mean, can we remember ANY negativity or hate towards Martina or Jennifer ? No way. They were loved by everyone when being no. 1, everytime.

The Crow
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:59 PM
I actually didn't like the movies all that much ;) But the second is my favourite.

Mikey
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by GoDominique
Of course we know there won't be any anti-Kim sentiments. I mean, can we remember ANY negativity or hate towards Martina or Jennifer ? No way. They were loved by everyone when being no. 1, everytime.

LOL - im sure you were being serious when you wrote this :p

Lynx
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by The Crow
You generalise way too much. Second that.

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:23 PM
GoDominique - That's why Kim is a good pick. Jenn came with her own baggage. She wasn't a good little girl who played nice. And the Hingis vs Wiliimas war may be only one in the history of the women's tenis where the tour had step in and asked the principals to shut up.

Nobody dislikes Kim. Now. So ALL she'll get is the negatives that come with being #1. No racial issues. No hostile rivalries, so no anti-fans. No 'oh she did drugs she must be evil'.

Just the negatives that come with being #1. Now we know from watching Venus and Serena that that a heapin' helpin' of negative. But with a new #1, untainted by all the Hingis-Williams BS, and with no racial issues involved, we'll see the actual level of negative that comes with being #1.

You don't give people enough credit.

gentenaire
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:30 PM
Nobody dislikes Kim now? What about Bis and Nuriboy?

And of course, since Kim is only one person, you can't expect her to get the same number of remarks as two sisters together have gotten.

That's one thing too many people seem to forget. If there's only one person dominating, this means that if this person loses, the field is wide open.

Say, the chance of the dominating player being beaten before the final is 1/10.
If only one player is dominating, that's 1 chance in 10 someone else wins the slam.
If two players are dominating that's 1 chance in 100!! Big difference and much more frustrating to the lower ranked players.

The Williams deserve to be where they are now, no doubt about that. But please understand why having two players far ahead of the rest of the field might be boring to others.

Mikey
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:30 PM
i dislike kim - i have for a while. so it has nothing to do with being number 1 or with being anything else.

people are stupid though - to rate a player based on how they do and what their rank is, is wrong and i would have thought that real fans, of all people, would realize that being a fairweather fan is pointless as you look ridiculous trying to "support" 12,000 people at once - although you never really cheer for them, just for who wins.

Gandalf
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Which she isn't yet, of course. But if she makes it this year, then suddenly we'll see the same level of anti-Kim threads and posts that we see as anti-Venus or anti-Serena posts now. This willonce and for all debunk the myth that a significant portion of all the anti-Williams sentiment is race-based.

One we see a White #1 generating as much negative ink as Black #1, all this talk of racial bias in tennis will cease.

Because, of course, the only reasons to critisize a number 1 player are:

-being number 1 or

-race issues

:rolleyes:

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:51 PM
Gandalf - Well, if they were an axe murderer or something, or cruel to children. But most players seem to be pretty solid citizens to me. In most cases, what's to dislike?

Experimentee
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:54 PM
Why are people going to start hating her just because she was number one? I dont think that'll happen because too many people like her now. Venus, Serena, Jen and Hingis always had people hating them even before they were #1. When Lindsay got to #1 nothing changed because there wasnt that much to hate about her, and i think if Kim ever does it'll be the same.

BCP
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Another nice side-effect will be that Australia will have its first ladies number one since Margaret Court...............;)

disposablehero
Jan 20th, 2003, 04:19 PM
Kim has already started to get the negatives, as soon as she was recognized as a threat. She won't need to wait for #1, if she beats Serena here, it will be on.

As for the Crow movies, there were only 2, weren't there? The 2nd one sucked.

victory1
Jan 20th, 2003, 04:29 PM
I don't like her now, and it's have nothing to do with if she beat Serena.

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Experimentee - What reason would anybody have to hate those players before they were number one? That makes no sense.

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 04:37 PM
"Nobody dislikes Kim"


you never met vince p;)

gentenaire
Jan 20th, 2003, 04:41 PM
Volcana, do you like every single solid citizen?

I don't. There are people who do absolutely nothing wrong, but for some reason I still don't like them. There are others who do things that are considered wrong in my eyes, but others don't have a problem with it, so I may not like this person, others will. That's life.

Kart
Jan 20th, 2003, 05:21 PM
Volcana, I am actually surprised at what I've seen from you this week - you have started so many threads related to race in the past few days.

Unusual from you.

Is it all because of the reaction to that thread which people started on you because of the title ?

tennischick
Jan 20th, 2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Experimentee - What reason would anybody have to hate those players before they were number one? That makes no sense.

it may not make sense but it's a fact that both Hingis and Capriati were hated BEFORE they became #1. the hate may have increased after they started dominating but they definitely had their detractors before, and certainly well before the Williams became contenders.

there players who seem to be universally liked regardless of race. Guga on the ATP tour is an example. and Kim may be the example on the WTA. i hope she continues to be liked even if she ends up dominating the tour.

i don't think that Venus and Serena are disliked ONLY bec of their race or bec they are dominant. some people simply don't like their personalities. ironically, one quality that most of the top disliked players have in common is that they come across as cocky and arrogant. this was as true for Hingis as it is about Serena say. the reason Kim may end up being the exception to this is bec it is hard to imagine her ever becoming cocky or arrogant. that's MHO...;) ;)

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 05:48 PM
it may not make sense but it's a fact that both Hingis and Capriati were hated BEFORE they became #1.

tennischick - We may have been on different planets in 1997. But I saw virtually NO bad press, or negative post about Martina Hingis in 1997. And that's when she became #1. Jenn .... has baggage. Some people object to drug use, some to her being arrested, some to her refucing to be just another cute little girl who smiled and said nothing but nice. There are even people who just don't like Americans. (Fancy that.)

I'll grant you Jenn, though she's a unique case, in my book. But Martina? I need some quotes, some links to some articles, something. Hingis was treated like the second coming before she became #1. ANd for quite a while afterward. The big time hate didn't start til the RG '99 crowd turned on her. That would be two year AFTER she became #1.

sartrista7
Jan 20th, 2003, 06:24 PM
Volcana - you're referring to media negativity, which Hingis certainly didn't use to suffer from. But consider this: in '97, what else could the media say? Hingis had no real rivalries at all back when she was dominating, and certainly no marketable rivalries. Anna K and Venus were the only hyped players around her age, and both were clearly too raw to challenge her then, and the player she usurped as no 1, Steffi, was effectively injured most of the time (I don't think they even played each other in '97). Whereas the Williams sisters now have Kim, Justine and Daniela, all around the same age (i.e. not 'past it') and all potential rivals. Hingis had none.

That's also why there wasn't all that much fan hate towards her (although, make no mistake, there was some): most 'hate' I see here is rivalry-based. Thus, the Hingis/Capriati fans diss the sisters, and the Williams fans diss Jenn and Martina. In '97, there was no rivalry. The only players with a strong enough fanbase which *could* have hated Hingis were Steffi and Monica; Steffi was out most year and, from what I see, a lot of Monica fans don't especially like Hingis anyway.

Volcana
Jan 20th, 2003, 07:29 PM
sartrista7 - Your reasons make a lot of sense. My disagreement with tennischick, however, was about if Martina WAS hated, not why she wasn't. I would tend to agree with your rational as to why there wasn't any great amount of negativity.

tennischick
Jan 20th, 2003, 07:43 PM
Volcana:
sorry i didn't keep all the links to the evidence that Hingis was not universally loved. if i had known they would have come in handy years later i would have kept them.

my point however is that i disagree with your statement that: Once we see a White #1 generating as much negative ink as Black #1, all this talk of racial bias in tennis will cease

i was disagreeing with all of the implications of this statement.

first of all, both Hingis and Jen had their share of detractors before, after and during their experience of being #1. and when last i checked they were both white.

the Sisters also have their share of detractors, partly i am certain based on their race. that is fact and that may actually be the basis for a major percentage of why they get bashed. but not 100% IMO. whether you choose to accept it or not, there are people who dislike the Sisters for reasons other than race and dominance. one common reason given is their personalities. they get accused of being cocky and arrogant. so was Hingis, so was Steffi. so was Chrissy. many top players get accused of this and get disliked for it.

nice post sartrista.

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 08:02 PM
"But I saw virtually NO bad press, or negative post about Martina Hingis in 1997"


it's obvious that you don't read german magazins
all those comments about steffi had a reason

HingisLove
Jan 20th, 2003, 08:53 PM
Here comes a question some or many will find stupid....ready?
Why did Hingis and Willsis fans start fighting? I like them both and never understood why I'm so alone on that?
I hear from willsis fans that Hingis kept talking skit about the sisters, and from Hingis fans that the sisters talked shit about Hingis. Don't you all think that it was the press that hyped the whole thing up? Much like there are trying to stir up something between Kim and Serena.
Anyway I think it takes two to tango and that if there was something bad going on between them, probable both parts were to blame.
Although I have never heard Venus saying anything bad about Hingis, after RG 99 Venus said that Hingis will come back and be stronger then before.
I think that Venus have always been a sweetheart

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 08:59 PM
martina said that venus would not be number 1 before she would retire and venus said that only serena mattered in the future.

this was in 97 the press sure had a hand in it too

persond
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by irma
martina said that venus would not be number 1 before she would retire and venus said that only serena mattered in the future.

this was in 97 the press sure had a hand in it too


:) I mean, the part about "only Serena mattered in the future"!!!:p :p :p :p

irma
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:38 PM
venus is a smart girl;)

fhkung
Jan 21st, 2003, 02:58 AM
Volcana, Serena isnt popular, but it's not coz she's black,
and Kim is popular, but it's coz she's nice, not that she's white,
gosh, you are such an idiot.....:rolleyes: