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Light-skinned Girl
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:39 AM
I just wanted to know if you had this many racial discussions *prior* to joining this message board? I've been posting on tennis boards for nearly 3 years and it's *amazing* to me how often race is discussed. I'm black and even in my own life I don't see so many discussions about race as I do here and I interact with *all* races on a regular basis. I have *many* white and Asian friends and race has never come up even if we're talking about sports such as football or baseball (I'm the token tennis fan among my friends). I really wish we could just *move on* because the topic of race seems to come up in General Messages *every* week.

carot
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:47 AM
Never, i thought it was an American thing, but your post puts that in doubt. So you're not alone ;)

Car Key Boi
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
I just wanted to know if you had this many racial discussions *prior* to joining this message board? I've been posting on tennis boards for nearly 3 years and it's *amazing* to me how often race is discussed. I'm black and even in my own life I don't see so many discussions about race as I do here and I interact with *all* races on a regular basis. I have *many* white and Asian friends and race has never come up even if we're talking about sports such as football or baseball (I'm the token tennis fan among my friends). I really wish we could just *move on* because the topic of race seems to come up in General Messages *every* week.

would yuo ever consider marrying a white dude?

can yuo match or better this chick? http://nelissa.itrini.com

Zamboni
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:54 AM
Same as carot :)

~*Alma*~
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:55 AM
nope never :)

Sam L
Jan 19th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Scarlet Ibis! :hearts: They are so beautiful!

BritneySpearsIsHot
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Never really talk about it, not an issue, why it is an issue on here i don't know, some people use it as an excuse, others use it as a form of arguement

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by carot
Never, i thought it was an American thing, but your post puts that in doubt. So you're not alone ;)

It is an American thing but *some* Americans know better. It gets so *irritating* because I honestly think race *is* a factor if you make it one by dwelling on the past.

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:23 AM
I think America has an inbuilt fear of the black person, a lot of people who tend to use race as a tool of argument tend to be American. I don't understand a lot of it, I mean yeah there is racism in the UK, but it is a multi-cultural society and ethnic minorities are much better respected than they were 15 or 20 yrs ago.

I only have a few friends who are black or asian (cos round where I live it's not that diverse...) but to me, colour of the skin doesn't come into it, everyone is a human being at the end of the day, thats how I look at it.

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:24 AM
I should have said "white america" in my first sentence...

Car Key Boi
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by JoeyWinson
I think America has an inbuilt fear of the black person, a lot of people who tend to use race as a tool of argument tend to be American. I don't understand a lot of it, I mean yeah there is racism in the UK, but it is a multi-cultural society and ethnic minorities are much better respected than they were 15 or 20 yrs ago.

I only have a few friends who are black or asian (cos round where I live it's not that diverse...) but to me, colour of the skin doesn't come into it, everyone is a human being at the end of the day, thats how I look at it.

would yuo ever consider marrying a black chick?

would yuo be cool if a future son/daughter told yuo he/she was marrying a black dude/chick?

MartianJoeyWinson
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:33 AM
I don't see it as an issue. Of course I'd marry a black girl, if I happened to be with one, I wouldn't just go ahead and marry one, that would be a foolish decision.

If my kids told me they were marrying a black person, then, they are marrying a black person. They will be marrying a person, it's that simple. They're not marrying an animal, that'd be worrying.

Car Key Boi
Jan 19th, 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by JoeyWinson
I don't see it as an issue. Of course I'd marry a black girl, if I happened to be with one, I wouldn't just go ahead and marry one, that would be a foolish decision.

If my kids told me they were marrying a black person, then, they are marrying a black person. They will be marrying a person, it's that simple. They're not marrying an animal, that'd be worrying.

who mentioned animals blah :)

just for the record, going ahead and marrying any chick is foolish

but i might consider disregarding that advice and marry Light-Skinned Gurl if she can match or better Nelissa

how about it gurl? :)

Monica_Rules
Jan 19th, 2003, 11:28 AM
Every now and again the topic comes up not that often these days.But my friends and i are very anti- racism so theres not much to disscous anymore.

Plus where i live everyone almsot is welsh.

In my school theres about 850 pupils and about 5 are black/asian

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Jan 19th, 2003, 11:39 AM
may i ask why you only ask "white posters"? I¨'m not here to start a fight, just curoius, coz i'm not white, and i feel excluded :p

Crazy Canuck
Jan 19th, 2003, 11:45 AM
Well it had came up before, though not to the same degree as on here.

I played on a baseball team and my mothers boyfriend made comments to me about a girl on my team - seeing as she was black, this of course meant that she MUSt be the best player and hit the ball really really far - so he seemed to think. He was apparently "kidding" but it pissed me off to the point my mother would have to break up our arguements.

I also grew up in a pretty white town. Granted my school had an excellent english as a second language program, so about 10% of the school population was from other countries - many were actually from the middle east and asia.

There were never any problems that I knew of, with regards to racial discourse in the school.

Car Key Boi
Jan 19th, 2003, 11:53 AM
hey Light-Skinned

it's rather *ironic* that *yuor* thread questioning as to why *everyone* on this board seems to be *obsessed* with *discussing* race, turned into a *discussion* about errr *race*

don't *yuo* think?

- Car *Key* Boi :cool:

Crazy Canuck
Jan 20th, 2003, 06:07 AM
Anybody else find it amusing how this thread just dropped to the third page and nobody cared?

How often are their race thread and this happens? ;)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 20th, 2003, 06:15 AM
No "Light Skinned Gurl"...we should not dwell on the past...I see you are way pass that. Funny though, the past has a way of coming back and bite you square in the ass when you least expects it. Sorry LSG, no offense but you really seem to have some MAJOR issues. :sad:

persond
Jan 20th, 2003, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by TopShotta
No "Light Skinned Gurl"...we should not dwell on the past...I see you are way pass that. Funny though, the past has a way of coming back and bite you square in the ass when you least expects it. Sorry LSG, no offense but you really seem to have some MAJOR issues. :sad:

:D Major issues, that is!!!:D :D There happens to be several generations of "white people" in my family, in fact, my grandfather had brothers that were "whiter" than the real "white folks"!!! We also have several family members who've married across the racial lines, but, at family reunions are treated like everyone else. And, though I might seem a bit concerned with racial issues, it's because as a family unit, the issues are discussed openly and frequently. How else can we "inform and prepare" our posterity for the world inwhich they live!!! For, you see, they'll eventually meet people like those lurking on these boards who are indeed "racist". They then will be better able to "deal' with them!!! :p :p :p :p

Dawn Marie
Jan 20th, 2003, 10:18 AM
Light-Skinned Girl, what did you mean by TOKEN tennis fan? Especially that you say race never comes up??? Why "white people only"? When you state that RACE never comes up? Why this ironic thread? lmao you're acting silly here. This kind of topic should be OPEN to all people. To EXCLUDE people shows that you are not that serious about the discussion. Talking about a certain group of people but EXCLUDING them from the thread. LOL at you, you started a thread and didn't ALLOW yourself to come inside of it. Oh you think your white, now? Lol Look at yourself.

You have a problem with people talkin shit about Venus and Serena, kid? You have a problem with people commenting when some people make stupid statements regarding V@S? Or are people dissin' Anna and talking about her blonde hair and blue eyes? Are they sayin' something about her race or Euro look that you don't like? You don't like people talking about the past? what gives you the idea that everything is all PAST? Kid I can give you so many examples of all sides that it are not in some PAST. Personally I will never forget history, I don't want to. Or hell what happened last week. I want to learn from it. I do know that in my life that people still experience racism. Especially white people toward people of color, at least from where I come from. "Let's see I have a friend "Derrick", his girlfriend Angie is half Mexican and half White. She is in love with Derrick, they live upstairs and she no longer has her car. She doesn't talk to her mother anymore, she was infact kicked out?? Can you guess why? Well let me tell yah. Derrick is Black. Her mom is a racist. So Angie moved out and now lives with Derrick, and no loner speaks to her mom. Lady at work was talking about her daughters nails. Another example from my experiences. A nurse said some girl at the salon messed her daughters nails up. Straight messed them up. She then looked me straight in the eye and said " Well I called that "Chink" and told her about herself". Girl, I was shocked. Really I flinched. I just turned my head and did something else. I couldn't believe the TONE of that statement. Another example. This guy I grew up with was a lightskinned guy. Man he had, HAS issues. All throughout highschool it was a known fact that he would only date *light* girls, with *good* hair so to speak. He thought it was MORE ATTRACTIVE to date a girl who looked more EURO looking. The guy has some issues. He is brainswahsed into thinking that to be light means that he was better then darker skin people. He felt that girls with afro-centric hair were not as pretty. WHY? because he was weak, and he still identifies beauty with looking more white so to speak. Anyway he is 33 now and HE STILL has this issue. He is so far gone he ain't funny. Who would shortchage themsveles from a good relationship all because of the skin tone?

You being a black child should know why race issues come up on tennis boards alot LSG. Tennis is a white sport and few Black women or men have played at a high level in the sport. So naturally many people will try to denounce their accomplishments and hold them to different standards then the norm. Many people(who run tennis) are indeed still biased and resentful of black people People with darker skin hues and people of different nationalities. Kid, it wasn't THAT long ago when tennis was for "WHITE PEOPLE ONLY". Much like this thread. lol.

Some people still hold biased views toward blacks. Many people still to this day feel that V@S don't belong at the top or in tennis at all. Anyone with a brain can see why tennis boards have race issues. DUH, but different types of people usually post on message boards. So naturally we will experience many different viewpoints from all over the world. Many people of many races post in here.

Personally I know it won't change,so I say deal with it and try your best to learn some culture. PLEASE! At least be aware.
All races or different people have their own biases. For instance I don't agree with people who think Anna's look is the #1 look. She is attractive but not the best lookin thing. I think many people are brainswashed by society. Society tells them that blonde and white skin is beautiful and sexy before all other looks. I think Brown skin is just gorgeous . I also think Asian people are gorgeous looking, and Native Americans are exotic. Now don't get me wrong I don't hope for a all black world, Or all white or red world. Cause if will be just another cycle. I want us to live in peace. Anyway, I find your thread to be full of irony.

persond well stated as per usual.:)

LSG, there is hope for you yet. Keep on loving people and stay true to your friends, just try to understand a bit more where your ancestors and their childrens children are comin from regarding race issues. You may wish to ignore, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

that is all.

CKB you are funny man!!:):D

Viva
Jan 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM
Well my friends and I talk about our culture and stuff.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 20th, 2003, 03:38 PM
Great post Dawn and Joy. Two sisters keeping it real...:D

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:30 PM
Let's try this one *again* since there seems to be some confusion of *why* I started this topic.

I initiated this thread for the *white* posters to ask them *IF* they had discussed *RACE RELATIONS* as much as they do here on the board *PRIOR* to joining it.

I went on to say that even I (as a black person) have seen race discussed more *here* than in my own life.

Sorry if anyone felt excluded. I'll *change* the thread title to say *NON-BLACKS*. I *forgot* that the question could be asked of anybody who's *not*
black.

Dawn please *don't* try to educate me. I *didn't* think you were smart when I joined nearly three summers ago and I still *don't*. You kill yourself *TRYING* to sound "enlightened" but *fail* continuously. Remember this Dawn: *YOU'RE* the fragile one - *NOT* me.

Joy thanks for being *tactful*. I had to interview for a Masters' program two years ago and if I went in with the attitude that I *won't* get in because I'm black I *never* would've been accepted. Joy I know there are still stupid people out there *but* I'm *not* going to think *every* time something doesn't work out in my life it's because of my race. That's *archaic* thinking!

It's also not fair at all to *assume* just because a white person was raised only around whites that they are *not* racially aware. Some of the most *liberal* people I knew grew up only around people of their own race.

Joy I see your point but on *many* occasions the people who were making blacks feel inferior are *blacks themselves*. For example - why am I labelled "snooty" by other blacks for being a vegetarian while my white friends *never* had a problem with it and are supportive?

I love myself. *Immensely*! I'm annoyed that my screen name would make people think differently.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:40 PM
Oh I forgot. Dawn I'm *not* surprised you didn't understand so let me explain to you what this phrase meant:

(I'm the token tennis fan among my friends)

What this means is that in my circle of friends I am the *only* one who likes tennis. Your biased mind thought I was speaking of tokenism which for somebody as *race-conscious* as you is *not* surprising.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:54 PM
GIRL, you need help I just wont get into it with you because you are just too far gone...:sad:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:56 PM
Only an idiot would label you snotty...I label you confused and hopeless...:sad:

apoet29
Jan 20th, 2003, 09:59 PM
As an Asian-American, I usually try and avoid arguments like this, but I am intensely curious about one thing: what is the story behind your screenname?

Dawn Marie
Jan 21st, 2003, 04:56 AM
Lightskinned girl, you're just too far gone. I knew exactly what YOU meant by *token* in that sentence. I do think it was a *PLAY* on words considering your thread topic. I disagree with your opinion of me, but it's ALL good. Hugs to yah kiddo.



Oh and before I forget:

By addressing this thread to *WHITE PEOPLE ONLY* Only suggest that you have a problem with black people while you post in here. Baby steps, Baby steps. You changed and became AWARE of how your topic was worded. It is a start. There is hope for you yet kiddo.

Anyway, hugs to you and hope one fine day you'll wake up. Anyway HAPPY MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DAY. We must not forget the past. MLK was a great figure for ALL people and for many reasons.

that is all.:)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 05:42 AM
LSG will wake up and see the ummm light when the past she is trying to forget sneaks up and take a big bite out of her light skindedededed ass...LOL...:rolleyes:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 21st, 2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by apoet29
As an Asian-American, I usually try and avoid arguments like this, but I am intensely curious about one thing: what is the story behind your screenname?

Apoet29 as I explained on the Sanex Board - my screen name is actually a family *nickname* that I've been called since I was young. I am *lighter-complected* than most of my relatives and many of them (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) *couldn't* always remember my name when I was a child (I was one of *several* grandchildren) so they *affectionately* pegged me as 'light-skinned girl' or sometimes 'LSG'. I realize that black people will see it as *negative* but that's *not* my problem because I know the true context of how the nickname came about. Some blacks may think that I'm *touting* my complexion but if they only knew that in *my* family (and in the Carribbean in general) being 'light-skinned' is not something to revel in as *some* Black Americans think it is.

Topshotta you're *disgusting* and you have the nerve to call yourself a 'free thinker'! Sorry that's not very original of me seeing that I am *NOT* the first to say that about you. :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Jan 21st, 2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca
Anybody else find it amusing how this thread just dropped to the third page and nobody cared?

How often are their race thread and this happens? ;)

Rebecca, you shouldn't have said that. Look how it turned out. Never count out topshotta and Dawn!

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 21st, 2003, 09:27 AM
Never count out topshotta and Dawn!

Beggin Beguine I *couldn't* agree more! Topshotta is *supposed* to be a 'free thinker' and Dawn preaches this Cree Indian philosophy! Excuse me I have to go. I'm feeling a bit *nauseous* (from the hypocrisy most likely). Bye! :wavey:

Oh I've been meaning to ask you. Are you a *Cole Porter* fan? ('Begin the Beguine')

Dawn Marie
Jan 21st, 2003, 09:33 AM
LSG You have me laughin'. I find you funny, funny indeed.:) You need to get to bed as it is late in the a.m.

Goodnight kiddo.:)

I do think this is a first. I don't think I can recall where a poster started a thread but EXCLUDED their own sef from the discussion at hand. classic, classic indeed.:)

By the way I think my signature rocks. I love the Native American people. I also love mother *earth* and agree with The Cree Philosophy concerning our natural resources. :wavey:

Money is the *ROOTS* to all evil.

gentenaire
Jan 21st, 2003, 09:51 AM
My username has got nothing to do with 'Begin the Beguine'. Beguines are a type of nuns (yes, really), so I'm just a begging nun;) Strange username for an atheist like me, I know.

Dawn Marie
Jan 21st, 2003, 10:05 AM
Lol, Are you really an atheist? I believe in a higher energy, but not some manly figure who rules ALL. I don't beleive the Bible *word for word* either. I do feel that some things may have happened, but I feel it is a loosely based book. I have two Great Aunts who were Catholic nuns.

2284
Jan 21st, 2003, 10:06 AM
I don't have racial discussions. Race is not an issue for me

Jakeev
Jan 21st, 2003, 10:23 AM
Race is not the only issue we as Americans seem to be so concerned about.

We also seem to worry about weight, sex, money and what our neighbors are thinking about us.

So frankly, what I have seen on this board as a human being is not different than what I have seen in College or see on tv.

And topshotta the reason why nobody takes your sorry ugly ass seriously is because all you know how to do is insult other people's opinions.

Joy and Dawn Marie are not always right or wrong but at least they are decent enough to give light-skinned girl a chance here.

Grow the f&^K Topcrappa before it's too late.......

BritneySpearsIsHot
Jan 21st, 2003, 10:25 AM
If someone wants to call me creamy boy so be it, even if i liveed in a black surriounding or something, white and proud!

Mohammed Sylla, a footballer in Scotland recently went to court after a white fan called him a 'black bastard'

What did he do? Asked that the white lad be let off "because i'm black and proud of it"

Be thick skinned, whatever the colour of it

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 01:51 PM
Say whatever you LSG, You are sorry and completly fucked up in the head.

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Jan 21st, 2003, 07:01 PM
guys pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease, don't turn Nt into Gen. Msg ;)

wooopee, she changed the title, haha thanks LSG *feeling included*

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 21st, 2003, 07:22 PM
Joy: I have dealt with the likes of LGS before. It is very important that white people see her as different. And she has the nerve to call me disgusting. NO LSG, YOU ARE DISGUSTING. People like you set black people back several decades. You are a chucking and jiving black woman tons of self hatred.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Say whatever you LSG, You are sorry and completly fucked up in the head.

Can you *ever* reply without swearing? F-bombs galore. It makes you look like *gutter trash*... :D

Joy evidentally I'm *not* like *some* of the black posters here. No apologies here if I *don't* subscribe to the whole "brother" and "sister" mentality that *some* of you have. This one time a black girl I had a class with said "What's up sister?" and I told her *NOT* to call me that because not only was I *not* her sister I wasn't even *related* to her.

As for Trinidad *of course* there's classism but skin tone issues? Joy you've got the *wrong* island. You must be thinking of Martinique.

This is *petty* but Joy the saying is *REAR* its ugly head.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:30 AM
Oh Martian sorry I excluded you but you *didn't* answer the question. Did you talk about racism a lot *before* you joined this board?

2284
Jan 22nd, 2003, 05:45 AM
Why are we even discussing this?

Dawn Marie
Jan 22nd, 2003, 07:13 AM
LSG.

#1.Why do you think you're not like some of the black people in here?

#2.What do you think the whole *brother and sister* mentally is?

#3.Why did you tell that one black girl in class that you were *NOT* her *sister*? When all she was doing was addressing you with a form of endearment? She *OBVIOUSLY* was not talking literally about being your *blood* sister.

#3a. When she stated " hey what up sister"(which she implied as a form of KINSHIP, yah know sisterhood, as culturally related women, the both of you, why did you automatically state? " you are *NOT*my sister? When all she was implying was that you both have a sense of kinship possibly the same background in cultured ideas and thinking, why trip about that? She seemed like she was being friendly. I think you don't wish to be associated with black people who act different then you. It seems that by your above reply that you have a hard time associating that girls implied meaning to your own self? Why resent being called someone's sista, when you and her both know the full implied meaning? A meaning that was frankly genuine. imho.


Some black folks have their universal language as with all cultures. A Lot of sayings are a form of endearments. Many as form of endearments. When I say "hey what up sista girl". I don't find that the least bit unflattering. I like it. I don't say that everytime I meet a friend. It is possible to speak to people in different ways. I alot of times might say to a friend. "Hi Clarence Thomas, how are you today"? Then I could see Clarence another day and say, "How yah doing brotha man, how are you doin' dog"?. I really don't see anything wrong with either versions because it is the same meaning. Just the second isn't considered proper English. Just slang. Hey though SLANG is used so widely now. People from all cultures use their own slang terms that they were brought up by. Some people say "hey where yah goin' dude"? " Why Tom I am fixin' to goin' down yunder." I don't understand how took offense to someone stating "hey sista girl".

Do you mind if I state it to you in here?

"Hey half sista girl, keep your head up LSG, cause you cool people". See, it is nothing. I just used slang. Don't be offended. Heck who knows we could end up having loads in common. Our paths have never really crossed much on the message board. Hugs to yah LSG.:):)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 22nd, 2003, 02:39 PM
This idiot really take pride in being an uncle Tom. You know whats funny, West Indians that act like this are usually the ones that grew up not having a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. You have some nerve calling someone gutter trash :D. SISTER, I can tell that you were starving in Trini before you get your green card and now you in the US dissing American blacks...how laughable...:rolleyes:. SISTER, you aint no better than any of us...in fact you are in a lot of trouble because you are so screwed up...IDOLIZING ANNA KOURNIKOVA....LOL

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:04 PM
Hey y'all, I'm light skinedededed too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JonBcn
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:15 PM
Wow. So much animosity. Maybe LSG (I always took that to be an ironic, rather than disparaging psuedonym?) is lucky to live in an enviroment where race is truly not an issue and this message served as a shock to her naivety? I think the original post showed that naivety to anyone with a bit of life experience, but theres no need to get so offensive just because you have a different outlook.

Car Key Boi
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:39 PM
whatever yuo guys may think of the Car Key Boi (annoying, disrespectful asshole blah) i am actually an expert on people of the world and especially their prejudices

although i'm not from the Caribbean, over the years i have spent a considerable amount of time in that region and i will concur with Joy that race and skin tone IS an issue in the Windies ESPECIALLY in Trinidad

when i go to these islands, i witness the same amount of racism and prejudice views that i witness back home in the good ole USA

the only thing that is different is the color of the skin

in Trinidad for example, it's not so much white against black, or vice versa, but Negro against Indian and Indian against Negro

all the examples that Joy and others have mentioned about being shunned by the parents of their white boifriend, equally apply in Trinidad and all the other islands

just as it applies to all countries around the world

racism is never black and white, there are a million different shades of it, and different degrees

and if i was to cross-examine everyone who posts on WTAworld (or any other message board) i would find a prejudice or two

the same applies to myself

If i was deciding on which two applicants i should award a job to, and the ONLY information i had was that one dude was black and from South Central LA, and the other dude was white and from Pasadena, i can say with 100% that i would give the job to the white dude. However, if i was to actually interview them, and the black dude gave me the impression that despite his rough background, he was intelligent and honest and that he would be an asset to the company, and the white dude gives me the impression that he's going to be a useless asshole, then i would have no hesitation in giving the job to the black dude, even if his academic qualifications were not as proficient as the white dude.

Of course, an extremist like the Stormfront/KKK bois, would never award the job to the black dude, regardless of how exemplary his qualifications/experience/blah were.

So i say again, [Racism/having prejudiced views/whatever yuo want to call it], is EVERYWHERE and it's up to everyone to learn how to best deal with it, because it's never going to go away

- Car Key Boi

i-girl
Jan 22nd, 2003, 03:41 PM
1) to answer your question: no, I wasn't a part of many racial discussions before this board. in Israel, the only black people are the Black Ethiopian Jews, and color is not an issue with them bacuase they are a part of our people.
2) I partly understand where Joy, and DM, and FT are coming from. I am critical of Jews who seem to want to "down size" their Judaism too. despite what you good, modern people (and I'm not saying that cynically) are saying, these things MATTER. color matters, religion matters. they used to matter to the majority, which used them as a reason to discriminate, and now they're important to the minority. that's how it works folks. after spending a lifetime being hated for something in you, you learn to see it as an important part of who you are. I realize maybe the more logical response would be to say "what's different about me USED to matter, and now society is different and it should NOT matter", but I think most of us feel that after being repressed as a group for a very long time, we don't want our differences to NOT matter. we want to enjoy them. to celebrate them. to take pride in them, and that's what's behind what LSG calls the "brotherhood mentality (sp)". not to mention that the battle for minorities is not quite over yet. discrimination is still out there.

BUT, guys, did she really say something anti-black? she sees being a proud minority in a different way than you, that's all. and she doesn't feel that she has to define herself through her color. I understand why that's hard for you to except. I think being Jewish is who I AM, I would not be myself if I weren't Jewish, and you obviously feel the same about your color, but she's allowed to feel differently, no?
just my thoughts, please no yelling;).

Beat
Jan 22nd, 2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Say whatever you LSG, You are sorry and completly fucked up in the head.

do you realize that you look like a complete wanker when you say such things?

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 04:28 PM
Car Key Boy is telling the truth ( I can't believe I just typed that :)).

Here is a recent article from Cnn. People can't even submit a resume without being discriminated against but its not that big a deal, right? NOT it is a big deal.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/01/14/name.bias.ap/index.html

Study: It helps to have a 'white' name
Tuesday, January 14, 2003 Posted: 8:07 PM EST (0107 GMT)




CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- It helps to have a white-sounding first name when looking for work, a new study has found.

Resumes with white-sounding first names elicited 50 percent more responses than ones with black-sounding names, according to a study by professors at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The professors sent about 5,000 resumes in response to want ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune. They found that the "white" applicants they created received one response -- a call, letter or e-mail -- for every 10 resumes mailed, while "black" applicants with equal credentials received one response for every 15 resumes sent.

The study authors, including University of Chicago associate professor of economics Marianne Bertrand, said the results can solely be attributed to name manipulation.

"Our results so far suggest that there is a substantial amount of discrimination in the job recruiting process," they wrote.

The professors analyzed birth certificates in coming up with what names to use. The white names included Neil, Brett, Greg, Emily, Anne and Jill. Some of the black names used were Tamika, Ebony, Aisha, Rasheed, Kareem and Tyrone.

Companies that purported to be equal opportunity employers were no more likely to respond to black resumes than other businesses, the study found.

Carolyn Nordstrom, president of Chicago United, a group that seeks to increase corporate diversity, said the study shows the need to educate those that make hiring decisions.

"We like to believe that this has changed, but this is evidence that it hasn't," she said.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 22nd, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Beat
do you realize that you look like a complete wanker when you say such things?

How dare you speak to me like that...I am light skindededede...:o

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 04:35 PM
i-girl--Very well stated post. I think people are not giving LSG a break because she has shown pure contempt for black people. She makes general broad statements about black people because she has surrounded herself with a few ignorant people. That whole don't call me sistah and being proud of it is all the proof anyone needs that the elevator is not exactly reaching the top, imo.

If a jewish person chose not to live their life as a practicing jew I'm sure you would be fine with that. However, I'm sure it would infuriate you to know end if that person then proceed to stereotype you and put your choices down. Then proceed to tell say to you that you shouldn't feel strongly about jewish issues because one its not that bad and two you are not Free if you want to deal with those issues.

I've never met anyone that calls themselves a black person like her and I hope I never do.

Everyone who can watch the Documentary on Jasper, TX that's on PBS tonight. You will see how little race matters. :rolleyes:

griffin
Jan 22nd, 2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta

I've never met anyone that calls themselves a black person like her

There might be a reason for that ;)

Whatever you think of the source or the motives, I do think it's an interesting question - I don't think I've ever come across as many discussions about race or racial issues in my day-to-day life as I have on this board, and I'd bet most of the rest of the caucasian posters here would say the same.

Some of those discussions are more constructive than others but on the whole I'd say that this exposure (not the exact word I want, but it'll have to do for now) is a good thing.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 22nd, 2003, 05:05 PM
Joy, I really like your post at the top of the page

I used to be like this I think. I wanted so much to not be interpreted as the *stereotypical* black person! I remember the most ignorant post I ever posted here, in Non-Tennis, worse than that Capriati thread I made! Beige really told me off and so did this Nigerian girl and it was the best thing I could read. Anyway, I don't know what I am getting to really, but black people who try so hard (and you can just tell when one is doing that!--you can just tell!) to not get mixed up with all black people really... well, I think they are in a sad state. I mean, I used to post on this crappy Christina Aguilera message board, and I was saying how I will be so happy if Impossible f. Alicia Keys is released because it will really appeal to the black audience ('cause the majority like R n B type music) along with Christina's own fans and it will appeal to many different people! And this chick just blows up at me, saying this shit like, "That is the dumbest comment ever! Look, I am black, and I listen to Good Charlotte and Bon Jovi. Not all black people are like that and how you make them out to be. You are so stupid" It was something like that! I was like, WTF! The naivety of this chick. She musta been like 15 from some neighborhood where everyone is like Flanders! That was the dumbest thing I ever read! It's like, she wanted so desperately to put herself out there, to make herself known to the world that she is different. She is different from all those other typical black people! She was so ridiculously defensive and offensive. It was the most pathetic thing ever!

Anyway, dude, where's Beige?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Mrs_Guga


Anyway, dude, where's Beige?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

omg, I was soo thinking the same thing.

Mrs. Guga let me say that you have changed I remember you from GoTennis well over a year ago. Hopefully, we all change with time. I know I have.

Thanks Joy, You've enlightend me. :)

Rocketta
Jan 22nd, 2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by griffin
There might be a reason for that ;)



maybe ;)

let me clarify though, I know many people who have a light skin/dark skin thing. My mother being one of them but I've never met anyone who has an internalized hatred, like someone put, before. I've seen them on talk shows but I've never actually met anyone.

Car Key Boi
Jan 22nd, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by joy
Key Boi- i Love you:hearts: Its kind of a shame that a white boi from Cali have to point out the obvious in your own country--but perhaps you weren't born there:confused:



ditto Bajan Gurl :hearts: :hearts:

and i was born in NYC (parents moved to Cali when i was yuong and have sinced moved back to NYC) but my dad was also a Financial Boi (he's retired now) and like me, he used to travel around the world, and often he us with him (us being myself, mom and my bro) so i've experienced many different countries and it's people from an early age

- Car Key Boi :kiss:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 22nd, 2003, 06:26 PM
Joy and Guga...I grew up in a very racially mixed community in North Jersey and most of my friends were of other races. I dont remember having a black male teacher ever untill I got to college. I remember during my senior year of high school I was riding in a car with another "oreo" and two white girls going to lunch and we were downtown Englewood and saw this young black man getting arrested and he was resisting the cops. My "black" friend and I looked at each other and one of the white girls caught this exchange and said to us..."you know, you guys are not like that, to me you dont seem like most black people..." I did not say a word. I left that fall to attend Morehouse and to this day the fact that I did not take the op to school that chick really bothers me. To be honest, I was a bit oblivious to race during that time. My friends and I NEVER made it an issue. I got a rude awakening attending school in the deep south travelling with the track team to various cities all over the south. Noone should obsesse themselves with race but you must go about your daily business with the awareness that RACE DOES MATTER otherwise when it confronts you, you will not be prepared. The first time someone called me a ******, I was just 18 yo visiting Florida A&M University for a track meet. I was in a supermarket and the lady in front of me had a beautiful baby and I love kids so I just smiled at the baby and the baby laughed and reached his hands out to me. I took the babies fingers and started saying some baby talke to the baby. It was a beautiful moment untill the father gave me the dirtiest look and took the baby and right in front of me and my coach, he said something about touching his kid with my ****** hands. I was floored. I grew up in the north really believing that stories like that was just that...stories. Another time after that I was in the mall in Gwinnett county in Georgia and two young white kids, no more than 10 were standing beside me with a older kid. One said to the other "where does chocalate milk come from? the other responded..."from a ******s cow"....

I say all this to say that I got a quick lesson on the importance of race once I hit Atlanta for school. No, dont obsess and use the stupid excuse that you cant get anywhere because you are black. But you must be aware that you are being held to a higher standard than your white counterpart and you must be prepared to meet and exceed those standards. I am not really concerened about race in my life because I dont give ANYONE THAT POWER OVER ME. However, dont "Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining"...

Dawn Marie
Jan 22nd, 2003, 08:35 PM
i-girl, I disagree with your second paragrapgh statement. I don't think LSG has to define herself as a color. You're assuming black people in here want her to define herself as BLACK that is not true. What lightskinned girl is doing is having no regard for her own cultured background. She is stereotyping her own culture. Self hatred all the way. The girl has a problem with black people. Black folks who don't conform to her style. She is consumed with self-hatred. She has a problem with black people, and yet she IS a sista. So she has problems with herself.


Excellent post Joy and Mrs guga.

LSG can you answer my questions please? 1-3a.:)

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Jan 22nd, 2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by joy
Marri- then tell your friends to stop starting ridiculuous threads because they will be responded to in the same manner:p :wavey:


What my friends? what have they done?? :confused: my friends don't start ridiculous threads :p

LSG - ops, sorry, i thought by not remember to answer your question, you'd kinda get the clue.....: I don't talk about racism (unless it's because of my studies) HERE NOR IN REAL LIFE.
I am chinese, and i ahve 2 really close friends who are chinese too, the rest of my friends (most of them) and white. one of the is black, from Ghana, and he has not had any kind of problems becoz of his skincolour. He has always gotten the jobs he wanted etc. And the ppl here loves him.
So, to be honest, i don't deal with "all this racist shit". And i guess i'm blessed. I love my friends, and i have a save life - and i'm 100% happy with that.

norway :hearts:

LeonHart
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Martian Marri

So, to be honest, i don't deal with "all this racist shit". And i guess i'm blessed. I love my friends, and i have a save life - and i'm 100% happy with that.




:worship: :worship:

I wish i could be like that...but i jus can't stand racism against AzNs...I take pride in being azn!! I LOVE PIGS BLOOD SOUP AND IM PROUD OF IT :drool:

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:07 PM
hey leon di di :D
where in US are you?
coz my friends over there don't have problems with their race either... hm....

LeonHart
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:07 PM
and i dun care if ppl quote me with :rolleyes: either! http://www.jamezbrown.com/mysmilies/contrib/edoom/_sure.gif

LeonHart
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:09 PM
I live in Cali, Los Angeles. I dun deal wit lotta racism in real life either mostly becuz the ppl i hang out with r AzNs as well...

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:14 PM
well, my friends and in cali too.. SAn fran, San jose and LA :bounce:
you'd think that racism wouldn't be an issue in US (atleast the big cities) anymore coz US is so mix-cultured - so many ppl from all over the world :) "salad bowl" hehe.

LeonHart
Jan 22nd, 2003, 11:21 PM
Ohh i went to San Jose field trip in 5th grade http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/drowned/punk.gif

Yeah US is very mixed...that's why racism is always an issue here i guess :confused:. Like...at skool, most of the asians hang out together, and the same with whites/blacks/mexicans/whatever else. So even tho racism isn't a problem, i think if racism were to start at our skool it'd be a big problem http://jeeptalk.org/crack/smilies/contrib/ruinkai/wvsore.gif

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:04 AM
First of all Joy (and everyone) I have *never* denied on this board that I am *black*! Yes I admit that I *may* have been at fault at prejudging *some* of the black posters *but* like you have with *some* of the white posters you have *drained* my patience. Any time *some* of you come to the Williams's defense their *blackness* is mentioned. If a white poster *or* non-Williams fan criticizes one little thing about either of your faves you guys go *ballistic* and *never* fail to *IMPLY*racism. I *don't* blame them fed up because I'm really *tired* of having race come up when discussing your faves. Can you *comprehend* that?!

Originally posted by joy
Do some research sometime when you *pull* your head out of your *Ass*

So *classy* Joy. You should open up a charm school.

Topshotta save it for someone that's *naive*. You're a *poseur* and cluelessly *artificial*.

#1.Why do you think you're not like some of the black people in here?
I'm *sure* there are blacks like me here but they just *aren't* speaking up because they do *NOT* want to "make waves" and be labelled a *pariah* by other blacks.

#2.What do you think the whole *brother and sister* mentally is?
I *don't* embrace the "brother and sister" mentality because I *don't* feel that connection. The girl that I mentioned from my class and I were the *only* blacks in that class and she wanted to come bond with me. *Why* should she get preferential treament just because we're the same race?! I've met black people that I *love* and we became great friends *and* I've met black people that I *loathed* and paid no attention to.

#3.Why did you tell that one black girl in class that you were *NOT* her *sister*? When all she was doing was addressing you with a form of endearment? She *OBVIOUSLY* was not talking literally about being your *blood* sister.
Dawn she was *presumptuous*! I really *didn't* like her but *not* because she was black but because she *wasn't* motivated (skipped class a lot, lethargic in class discussions)

#3a. When she stated " hey what up sister"(which she implied as a form of KINSHIP, yah know sisterhood, as culturally related women, the both of you, why did you automatically state? "you are *NOT* my sister? When all she was implying was that you both have a sense of kinship possibly the same background in cultured ideas and thinking, why trip about that?
Dawn I *know* why she said that but I *don't* feel the same way. It's worth noting that with other races I *don't* see this "kinship" but with blacks I do. Then *if* you don't embrace the black "kinship" you get labelled a "wannabe". It's *not* even remotely possible or even acceptable that as a black person I just *didn't* care for this girl. The *unwritten* black law is that I am *supposed* to be receptive *all* blacks and that's *ridiculous*!

i-girl the *danger* of this racial or religious pride is that you *can* get caught up in the oppressive history of your group so much so that you *lose* all objectivity and then *everything* becomes "us against them" and I *don't* subscribe to that mentality at all! It's quite alarming when you can see people actually *wallow* in being discriminated like it was a drug and they were completely high!

I've never met anyone that calls themselves a black person like her and I hope I never do.

Rocketta all that tells me is that *you* do *NOT* know a *diverse* group of black people.

I'm *happy* for you Martian. :)

Mrs Guga I bet you're into white guys like me. I will tell you now there is absolutely *nothing* wrong with it! It's just a *preference*. You sound like you have doubts but I *hope* you realize that you're *NOT* betraying the race for being more attracted to white guys. :)

The last thing I want to say is that I do *know* there are black people like me out there. I'm really *disappointed* that I don't meet more of them. *Most* of my friends are white and Asian and I feel *more* comfortable with them than I do with blacks because we have more in common *on the whole*. I'm a rocker chick at heart and I *know* there are blacks who are rock fans but I *never* meet them. The few black fraternity parties I went was *not* my scene because I don't like rap and when I did try to socialize at the parties with other blacks I get told that I "talk like a white girl". :rolleyes: Like I said I *know* there are blacks like me out there but it's just going to take some time before I meet them.

Car Key Boi
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:35 AM
WTF??? how come i didn't get a mention in all of that rant???


there must have been *something* or some *point* that i made and that yuo didn't agree with??

well?

- Car *Key* Boi :confused:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:50 AM
Oh Leon that *isn't* true about all groups. It depends on the area. Where I go to school now (in Valencia) is *very* integrated.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:52 AM
I have joked about this but seriously, I am really very sorry for you LSG. I have kidded you and all but I do think that you are a good person, just misguided. I have to tell you that you are missing out. Your culture and it's people are so wonderful it brings tears to my eyes honestly. I kind of used to be like you untill I really got introduced to the real black culture and not what I was seeing on the news. I thank god that my mom and dad were able to provide me with the kind of enviornment that allowed me to grow into a very decent human being (i.e. raising me in a town that provided a fantastic educational enviornment). However, a kid can lose out on a lot if "book knowledge" is all that we are allowed to achieve. Knowledge of self is almost as important. I could not understand when my Hungarian friend could not hang out with us because she was so involved in the Hungarian American culture and put that first and foremost. Her parents made sure that she understood that she is a decendant of Hungarian Jews who died in Nazi concentration camps, died for being who they are and now she is in a wonderful country free from persecution. She knows this. My parents tried, (Jamaican imigrants) but they are not completly aware of what it takes to make a completly rounded black man in America. So I dont think that I was completly prepared when I left home to attend college. However, I quickly educated myself in just about all aspects of black culture and truely fell in love for the first time. I say all this to say that you are truely missing out on something very special and unique. It truely breaks my heart to hear an educated sister say that most of her friends are of different races because she has more in common with them. I will pray for girl becuase reality is a mother and you will be slapped with it sooner or later.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 03:59 AM
You see Topshotta now your *last* post I can appreciate!!! Show me more of that and forget the taunting and I'll *listen*. I may *not* agree but you have my ear (for a change - lol) :)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl

Topshotta save it for someone that's *naive*. You're a *poseur* and cluelessly *artificial*.



Brilliant...:rolleyes:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:04 AM
Blech. It's the *other* you again. :p ;)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:15 AM
Sorry??????????????? :confused: :p

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Sorry??????????????? :confused: :p

Go to the bottom of page 2. :p

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:19 AM
Joy, I think not...:p

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by joy
Ok- i see a love affair developing:p ;) i was going to say something sarcastic but refrained *on good behavior* tonight:D

Joy no love affair. He's *not* light enough. :angel:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by joy
hehehhe- you said it, not me:D

*Of course* I did! Well it's true. I really like guys that are oh say *your* boyfriend's complexion. ;) :angel:

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 23rd, 2003, 05:07 AM
Light skinned girl, I have never had a boyfriend before. I have only kissed 6 guys in my life. 3 of them were white. 2 were black. One was Latino. 2 were Jews. 1 was straight out of Africa. One was African-European. My favorite: the Latino. I don't have a *preference*. You just gotta have a penis. ;) 'Tis all

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 23rd, 2003, 02:24 PM
Mrs_Guga...I have a penis...:bounce: :bounce:

*JR*
Jan 23rd, 2003, 04:18 PM
Yes, but without rancor. Example: in the NFL, there are several very successful quarterbacks who run very well (as well as pass). Most of them are black, ala Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Dante Culpepper and (probably the best of them) Michael Vick. The running aspect gets more focus on TV than with 2 white future Hall of Famers who did so, John Elway and Steve Young.

Rocketta
Jan 23rd, 2003, 06:33 PM
LSG--I have very diverse friends. My black friends are very diverse. My best friend in college was a soccer player, who loved the outdoors and spent summers climbing trees and tagging birds so they could keep track of them. All my main friends are degreed people. I have many non-amercan friends. I get along with many many people.

I don't have a problem with black people who want to do whatever they want to do. I have a problem with you because you act like the fact that you've chosen ( I don't think it has anything to do with a natural preference) to exclude anything that you think the majority of black people would do or like is a badge of honor or something that makes you better than those "black" people. Its just pityful and just an all around sad affair.

I don't know anyone who is so down on her people that she can't even see that by putting down "black" people you are putting down yourself and your family. I hope I never meet anyone like you. It would be a nightmare to have to work or be in a class with someone like you. A pure nightmare........:eek: I would be so embarrased and ashamed. :o

Car Key Boi
Jan 23rd, 2003, 07:42 PM
one question for Light-Skinned Gurl (note to everyone, i have a feeling that LSG has me on ignore, so if she *ignores* my question, please *ask* it for *me* )

LSG, would yuo ever consider marrying a dude who was intelligent, educated, humorous, charming, considerate, handsome, and respectful, but he's a dude who is from deepest Africa and his skin tone is as black as the Ace of Spades?

- Car *Key* Boi :confused:

Car Key Boi
Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:42 PM
Bajan Gurl, i love YUO, regardless of how light or dark yuo are :hearts: :kiss:

troof!

- Car Key Boi :hearts:

Car Key Boi
Jan 23rd, 2003, 08:52 PM
wow!!!

the dreadlocks? yuo're right i haven't!

yuo're even more exotic then i imagined :hearts: :hearts:

Car Key Boi
Jan 23rd, 2003, 09:12 PM
lol, the troof is the troof!

troof!

LeonHart
Jan 23rd, 2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Oh Leon that *isn't* true about all groups. It depends on the area. Where I go to school now (in Valencia) is *very* integrated.

I knoe, but im jus sayin the majority of asians/blacks/mexicans/whites hang out together at lunch. I do see diverse group of friends hang out during lunch...but MOST go with their nationality. I have white/black friends, but im not as close to them as i am wit some of my azn gooks, u knoe wat im sayin?

Rocketta
Jan 23rd, 2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by joy
i seriously laff out loud when i read most of YUOR posts:D I don't look like Nelissa but i have beautiful green-eyes (imagine those on a gurl with a cafe au lait complexion- and they are mine not contacts;) 5 6', with sandy-brown dreadlocks down my back- bet you never been out with a gurl with dreadlocks??

dredlocked woman :wavey: me be dredlocked too! :p

Crazy Canuck
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:39 AM
Well, this thread has disgusted me on several levels.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca
Well, this thread has disgusted me on several levels.

:confused:

i thought yuo were like me, in that yuo don't get offended by shit posted on a message forum

- Car Key Boi :confused:

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by joy
Hey Natty Rocketta- Happy to be Natty:wavey: How long have you been growing yours? Mine are going on 4 years now!!

I'm going on 2 years this April. I've struggled with wanting to cut them so bad. I'm trying to make it through the rough period. When I got them I had a beautician who took care of them. I have since moved to an area where I can't find any one who deals with dreds. There are plenty african braiding places but they don't wash your hair and they use gel. If I have to wash and dry my own hair I don't see the point. I also have done it natural no beezwax(sp?) and no gel. People love to want to use gel. No thanks for me. So its been tough but I'm trying to hold out. :)

Crazy Canuck
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:51 AM
I'm not "offended", I just find some people (read - topshotta) to be rather "disgusting".

The actual contend of this thread could have been good, if not for all the shit being thrown around.

Race is an important topic, but the discussion goes no where, when all people do is focus on the posters apparent issues.

I can't learn anything from discussion like that.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 01:57 AM
to be fair to Rude Boi, he's made some excellent and troofull points, but his vocab shall we say, wasn't the quality of Joy's, Rocketta and Dawn Marie

but the meaning of his points were almost the same

LeonHart
Jan 24th, 2003, 02:00 AM
I didnt knoe Topshotta wuz a guy til dis thread unless she's a girl with a penis.

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by joy
yeah, Rocketta- hang in there- the 'awkward' stage is tough! I started mine once then didn't like it and then started them over and thats when i kept them. I did it all by myself...i used beeswax at the very beginning but i didn't use gel or anything! hang in there...its this time that you really embrace your hair- if the time is right because i truly believe that it only happens when you are that place...people are probabaly going to be like- deep discussion about locks--but it is a process that to me is deep. I have been thinking about cutting mine but i want them really long first....it takes alot of time and effort washing and oiling etc....i only go get mine done for special occasions!!

Peace!!

Wait, i just re-read- you have had them for 2 years- so they are quite long no? So your only issue is maintenance? Oh, you can do that yourself--its time consuming but....... don't use gels-- use oils- jojoba, almond, Rosemary...and take them to the salons if you have to!!

Yeah the maintenance is a bitch. They are pretty long but i have a lot of hair. It is not uncommon for someone to come up to me and ask if I had hair added. :confused: My sister can do it but she doesn't like too, LOL. I try to be easy on her. The sad part is I work at a college with a cosmetology dept. So I can get my hair washed for free but I would never be able to get it washed and dried in an hour well not even two hours so I never go.

Well you've given me incentive to keep it going. You're right it is a deep issue. My first beauticians were very spiritual. They use to say their dreds reflect their lives. When their lives are bumby so are their dreds and I'm starting to understand what they meant.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Becca...get a life...:rolleyes: You are so pathetic

sartrista7
Jan 24th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Wow, Americans are really hung up about race. I really don't see why being a particular skin colour should come bound with with so much baggage and connotations, and I don't understand defining yourself according to it. Sure, be happy with it, but it can't be the most interesting thing about you. And some of the things people have said have been ridiculous, on all sides... I mean, it was a couple of pages back but I'm *sure* someone implied that black people couldn't like rock music. Like, does that mean I can't love hip-hop?

My analogy would be as a gay man, I have to say I feel no kinship at all with other gay men. (Most gay men piss me off, to be honest.) I'm not ashamed of my sexuality, but really. I'm more interesting than that. There are other things which define me. It's a complete non-issue.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:02 PM
I hear ya Sartrista...But it is not that cut and dry. It is the sort of thing that you would have to be black to fully understand.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:07 PM
BTW, every one has a right to listen to whatever they want to and date whomever, but when you wear it as a badge of honor and tell yourself that this makes me better than the people in my race then something is wrong with you. Like I said, LSG my be a perfectly wonderful person but I just think that the way she states her case makes her look like a total sell out. I feel like she is completly misguided and I hope that she wont have kids...:wavey:

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:09 PM
sartrista, more power to yuo for having the attitude that yuo do

but it's a fact that in the USA this is a huge issue, we have some of the largest extreme racist/anti-gay organizations in the world, whereas yuor British National Front party is pretty small and mild by comparison

also, those assholes who are members of KKK/Stormfront/blah are only a TINY representation of extreme racists in the US

the majority of them do not have the time or the desire to belong to any such organization

but trust me, those people exist, i see them every day at work and in the streets

and they're not all skinheads with swastikas on their foreheads

the majority of racists are educated and intelligent people (when it comes to matters that aren't related to race)

- Car Key Boi

sartrista7
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
I hear ya Sartrista...But it is not that cut and dry. It is the sort of thing that you would have to be black to fully understand.

no, no, no, no, NO. I understand all the issues here perfectly, and I understand why people are hung up on them, and I know the history behind them, just like I understand why most gay people make a big deal out of their sexuality. Now, it really pisses me off when people say 'you have to be black/gay' to understand - yeah, maybe if you hadn't had the experiences that a black/gay person does then you might not know, but you should be capable of understanding. No, the thing I don't get is that, as individuals, we don't feel the need to get beyond it.

This is my problem when people talk about 'the black community', or 'the gay community'. Yes, I understand why it's come about, but ultimately it's just a form of self-ghettoisation. As if having a certain skin tone says anything at all about you as a person!

(if you reply and I don't it's because I am going to scavenge for food in the fridge right now.)

sartrista7
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by joy
Well said again Key Boi--- I just don't get why people want to act like it doesn't exist!! oh, well-----

joy - I'm not acting like it doesn't exist, but really, I don't think about it. Hardly ever. (I'm an ethnic minority, too - mixed race - but was brought up in a very English sorta way, and I feel that defines me even less. And because I haven't experienced malicious racism ever - just ignorant kids, like, ten years ago - it just doesn't cross my mind.

The point is: I'm a more interesting person than *just* a gay, ethnic bloke. And yes, there are homophobes and racists out there and yes, I know how institutionalised they are, but again they don't bother me. It's not as if I ever get offended anyway, and in a way it's quite funny when they think they can offend me.

Oh, and CKB - I love your posts. I did know all of that already, though.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
The point is: I'm a more interesting person than *just* a gay, ethnic bloke. And yes, there are homophobes and racists out there and yes, I know how institutionalised they are, but again they don't bother me. It's not as if I ever get offended anyway, and in a way it's quite funny when they think they can offend me.

Oh, and CKB - I love your posts. I did know all of that already, though.

that is the PERFECT way to deal with racism blah, to not be offended by their crap

the more yuo try to fight or argue with a racist, yuo're just wasting yuor energy because there is nothing that yuo can say or do to change him, it's in his nature and trying to change it is like trying to change the nature of a scorpion. When yuo argue with a racist, all yuo're doing is fanning the fire

alas, most people are too sensitive in such matters, and i know it's easy for me to say that. There is every likelihood that if i was a black dude i wouldn't be saying this

anyways, the Car Key Boi salutes YUO :wavey:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
Wow, Americans are really hung up about race. I really don't see why being a particular skin colour should come bound with with so much baggage and connotations, and I don't understand defining yourself according to it. Sure, be happy with it, but it can't be the most interesting thing about you. And some of the things people have said have been ridiculous, on all sides... I mean, it was a couple of pages back but I'm *sure* someone implied that black people couldn't like rock music. Like, does that mean I can't love hip-hop?

My analogy would be as a gay man, I have to say I feel no kinship at all with other gay men. (Most gay men piss me off, to be honest.) I'm not ashamed of my sexuality, but really. I'm more interesting than that. There are other things which define me. It's a complete non-issue.

*Great* post Sartrista7! :) The way you feel as a gay man and feeling *no* kinship for other gay men is *exactly* the way I feel about black people. As a black person myself I really feel *no* kinship for other black people. The black people that I do *love* I love because of who they are as *people* and *not* because we come from the same race. The black posters on this board *can't* seem to comprehend that and label me an Uncle Tom. I agree *as well* that my race is *not* the most interesting thing about me which is why I *can't* relate to blacks who see themselves as black *before* anything else. Sartrista7 thank you *so* much for posting because you've shed new light on the discussion! :)

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:17 PM
Car Key Bpoi I *don't* have you ignore. I just didn't feel like addressing you. But *now* I will.

LSG, would yuo ever consider marrying a dude who was intelligent, educated, humorous, charming, considerate, handsome, and respectful, but he's a dude who is from deepest Africa and his skin tone is as black as the Ace of Spades?

No because I'm *not* attracted to black men. I think *some* are handsome but I ahve *no* romantic feelings for them.

Originally posted by TopshottaMrs_Guga...I have a penis..

Topshotta the problem is Mrs Guga doesn't. :p

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:18 PM
ROCKETTA
I wish you lived in NY because I would treat you to a session at the salon my sister works at...DREADS and all natural styles are her specialty :wavey:

Joy have you ever tried products from Carol's Daughter? Its located on Dekalb Ave in Fort Greene. They are wonderful.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:19 PM
I dont think that he shed new light on the discussion because it is the same naive white wash drivel that you have been screaming throughout the thread. It is far more understandable coming from a non black person though....:o . From you LSG, it is just pure and simple self hatred.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Car Key Bpoi I *don't* have you ignore. I just didn't feel like addressing you. But *now* I will.



No because I'm *not* attracted to black men. I think *some* are handsome but I ahve *no* romantic feelings for them.



Topshotta the problem is Mrs Guga doesn't. :p

Mrs_Guga doesnt...??????????????? :eek:

It's ok Mrs_Guga...I am flexible :kiss:

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
No because I'm *not* attracted to black men. I think *some* are handsome but I ahve *no* romantic feelings for them.


Please see fax machine for confirmation :(

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Topshotta
I dont think that he shed new light on the discussion because it is the same naive white wash
drivel that you have been screaming throughout the thread. It is far more understandable coming from a non black person though.... . From you LSG, it is just pure and simple self hatred.

"naive white wash drivel"? You're so *narrow-minded* Topshotta I actually feel sorry for *you*.
Oh this is *petty* but the term is 'whiet-washED'. It's a pet peve of mine. Also it is 'cut and drIED'!

Hey Rebecca I *WAS* planning on changing my screen name because I was tired of people dissecting it. Then I decided not to because like you said on another thread there's nothing wrong with it. :)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:34 PM
Sweety, I dont have time to spell check every thing that I type. Posting on this board is not a job...K...:o...and while your at it (you of all people should know) it's **white** not "whiet"...:rolleyes:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:36 PM
But Joy do white 'identify' as white? I *don't* understand that mentality of 'identifying' as black. I'm a dancer and I admire several dancers who *happen to be* black. I love their artistry! Their race has *no* bearing on how I feel about them. *Why* is that difficult to comprehend?

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by joy
Great, you guys feel like that but why is it a problem if others identify with being black and care to be involved in the *community*?? Someone has to or you guys wouldn't have the basic *Human* Rights that we all deserve!! If people that fought for your rights LSG chose to not feel kinship to other Blacks, then you probably wouldn't have the *choice* to be who you are!! I am a lot of dynamic, wonderful things but i am Black and identify as Black- that puts no limitations on my life.

Great post Joy :D

Every day that I wake, I thank the lord for the blacks (and others) who suffered during slavery and the Civil Rights Movement. Because if it were not for their profound "kinship" I would not be able to:

Sit anywhere I want on the bus
Get a college education
Drink from any water fountain ;)
Speak Freely
Live anywhere I want
Meet other blacks who have come here from other countries (WI)
Date whomever I want

Thank God for those Black people who valued "kinship" :D

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:41 PM
Ok you got me on the typo's! :p

And while your at it (you of all people should know) it's **white** not "whiet"...

It's 'you're'. :p

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:41 PM
And you're calling someone narrow minded??????? You hate your own race for crying out loud. LSG if you want credibility, Loud mouth Beccs is the worst "friend" to have...:o

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Ok you got me on the typo's! :p


It's 'you're'. :p

Pffffttttt...:o

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
And you're calling someone narrow minded??????? You hate your own race for crying out loud. LSG if you want credibility, Loud mouth Beccs is the worst "friend" to have...:o

Excuse me Topshotta I *NEVER* said I hated my race!!! Forget it you're *never* going to understand me but I don't really care because I have been through this *many* times before. :rolleyes:

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:52 PM
TopShotta, :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:52 PM
Topshotta...come on honey stop wasting your posts on people who would never date you :D (well maybe, u do have light skin)

You see, I'm attracted to all men. I'm open minded, I will date any man if I think he is cute and has a nice personality.

I won't presume not to have romantic feelings for you, when I don't even know you :D

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:55 PM
Joy my problem with 'identifying as black' is because it's a *separatist* mentality. I am *many* things so why should I single out my race? I want people to see me as friendly *and* ambitious *and* outgoing *and* caring. My race *shouldn't* be important. My *character* is what matters.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 24th, 2003, 08:58 PM
Joy, Coldplay's album: A Rush of Blood to the Head...

were you serious?! LOL!

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:02 PM
No Mrs Guga she was being *condescending* to me. :rolleyes:

Mrs Guga what did you mean by you "used to be like me"???

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:04 PM
I am:

ambitious
outgoing
well travelled
a sports fanatic
funny
loving
friendly :D
a sweet...........PERSON...I am all those things as well as black!

I appreciate and value all of my attributes.

Does that mean that I have a "separatist" mentality? :confused:

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Mrs_Guga
Joy, Coldplay's album: A Rush of Blood to the Head...

were you serious?! LOL!


I love Coldplay...my friend ( a musician) just did some producing work for them last weekend :)

A4
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by The Visored Boy
As it was said before, there are like, plenty of things that define us as a person.

The more a person is intellectual the more he/she will take a distance about a characteric that defines him/her self. Whether it is race, sexual orientation, but it can be something else also.

And it doesn't contradict the fact that you can - for example - fight for gay rights AND also take your distance of what people call the "gay community". The same apply for race.

But the attitude some people of this thread have, is like... so characteristic. It was to expected.

The more intellectual blah blah blah.............
Are you kidding me? Tell me you're joking. Please.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:08 PM
I think the lead singer, Chris Martin, is so pale and blush-faced sometimes. I never like that. He is too cold-looking for me. No offense English men! Omigod, that came out so bad. But no, I just don't like how his cheeks are 24/7 rosy. I love Gwynnie though, and actress-rocker romances are the sweetest, and he seems to be a sweetheart. Coldplay has some good music. I think the song you are referring to is In My Place, their current single. It's a really beautiful song

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever
I love Coldplay...my friend ( a musician) just did some producing work for them last weekend :)

WOW! Cool! I'll be hanging with the celebs some day. In the meantime, can you get me backstage passes?! LOL!

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:13 PM
A4: Well I've seen that pattern enough in my life... The more a person insists on his "gayness", "blackness", ... the less interesting that person is intellectually.

I *couldn't* agree more but it's even deeper than that. That's *exactly* what Sartrista7 was talking about. Thanks The Visored Boy! :)

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by The Visored Boy
Well I've seen that pattern enough in my life... The more a person insists on his "gayness", "blackness", ... the less interesting that person is intellectually.

No one in hear is insisting on their "gayness" or "blackness". I think most people here are saying that its ok to appreciate that part of yourself. If one cannot appreciate all aspects of themselves, how can one say that they truly love themselve.

Your comment "the less interesting that person is intellectually" is just plain IGNORANT...

But I forgive you, because every once in a while we all temporarily lose or senses :wavey:

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by joy
its not about insisting on 'blackness'- its just accepting it as a part of who you are-- when i encounter people, i *obviously* see their race/color but i don't treat them as a race or color...but i dont' try to disassociate myself from my Race but neither am i out at Al Sharpton's rallies- what is there to not understand abou that:eek:

Because they don't want to understand it...because it would mean that everything that they have ever thought about 'race' and what effect is has on their life is WRONG.

I understand their pain.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:21 PM
The Visored Boy *don't* worry. I have *nothing* against those that have 'challenged' me and my perspective. We're *never* going to agree.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:26 PM
hmm, after much intellectual thought, i've come to this conclusion

LSG=FUCKED

that is all

- Car Key Boi :confused:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:31 PM
I will say that I do not put limitations on myself nor do I define who I am based soley on my race. I will also say that I LOVE being black. If I was to die and god ask me what race I wanted to come back as I would want my life all over again (minus a few mistakes). I truely believe that if any other race had to endure what we had to as a race, they would be extinct today. That resiliency is what makes us what we are. LSG, I told you before that I almost took that path that you took but THANK GOD, I was able to find myself. I found the other side of my blackness. I found it in the classrooms, in books (Carter G. Woodson's The MIS-EDUCATION of the Negros, Claud Brown's Manchild in the Promise land, Dr. Juwanza Kunjufu's countering the conspiracy to destroy black boys, Frances Cress Welsing's The Isis Papers), I found it dance, music, through the teaching of Dr. Benjamin Mays and so many other powerful people of color, I found it through social activism (i joined my college's mentorship program).... I embraced it because it was kinda new to me. That is what I hope for you LSG. I hope that somehow through these exchanges, you will see what you are missing out on and dont take the words of a "person" like Becca as validation for your misguided ways. Becca is clueless and you listening to her is like the blind leading the blind. Someone like her dont know squat about this issue but she has a big mouth and like to act like she know something about everything...:rolleyes:

OMG, you listening to the number one internet troll...:D

Giuliano
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:44 PM
I haven't read the whole thread yet so obviously I don't have a definite point of view on it yet either. I might ask a calm question though.
It's good that you all found your way, that you feel free etc but if Light Skinned Girl feels free with her reasoning, what's the big deal? I mean, you found your freedom this way, maybe she found it another way, no?
Please be nice with me because english is not my mothertongue so my wording can be a little weird for you...

And to answer the question, actually no, I have never talked about race because I seem to differentiate people based on their nationality. :confused:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:45 PM
shit...I give up...:rolleyes:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Mrs_Guga
I used to be like this I think. I wanted so much to not be interpreted as the *stereotypical* black person!

Mrs Guga what *exactly* do you mean by the *stereotypical* black person?

LSG, I told you before that I almost took that path that you took but THANK GOD, I was able to find myself.

What *exactly* do you mean? You amke it sound like I hate msyelf? I don't. Did you hate *your* blackness Topshotta?

hmm, after much intellectual thought, i've come to this conclusion

LSG=FUCKED

that is all

With all your *inane* efforts to entertain us and be all quirky I'd think you of all people would 'get' me. :rolleyes:

LeonHart
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
shit...I give up...:rolleyes:

u said that 2 pages ago...

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by The Visored Boy
OK this is my last comment: topshotta: if you LOVE being black... GOOD FOR YOU. But some black people do not care about being black or another "race", as it is not important for them; I don't see what's wrong with that.

Just as you want topshotta to understand that race is not important to you, so you should understand why its important to him.

Isnt that fair?

I noticed that of all the things that you and LSG replied to that you failed to reply to the post about the Blacks who (felt that race was important) and suffered and lost their lives in order for LSG and others to enjoy their lives so much now that they can easily ignore their blackness.

It is because of those black people that she can hang out in public places with her white friends...its because of the courage of those that black people that she can say Hi to a white boy and not have to worry about being lynched for it. I know I'm going really deep here, but everything else has been tried and she (and now you) still fail to see the point.

LSG...you can be all the things you are and still be black. Saying you are black and proud of your history doesnt take away from you being a wonderful, caring person and a great dancer. Its just another dimension. Just another great thing to appreciate about yourself.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 09:55 PM
Lol@Leon :D I think Leon that somewhere in his potty-mouthed heart that Topshotta *likes* me. ;)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:02 PM
No LSG, It's not so much that I hated myself it just that when you live in a certain environment, you tend to live "THEIR" life...I did not hate myself, I just did not know myself. The only way I would be friends with other blacks is if they were somewhat like me and my friends of other races. I had to find myself as a black person and understand that knowledge of self is very important if you are going to meet and exceed the much higher standards that we face. LSG, this is not to say that we must carry a chip on our shoulders, it just to avoid being naive and prepared for the first time someone call you a ******....:wavey:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:04 PM
BK I know our history but I know you mean well. :) We're *not* going to agree. That's the *reality*.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:06 PM
ha LSG, i had yuo figured right from the fucking beginning, i just wasn't sure which way yuo were leaning

and it didn't escape my notice that yuo ignored my questions and points, especially in regard to that fucking ridiculous remark yuo made about Trinidad

yuo probably thought yuo'd get away with that obvious lie figuring that no one on this board would be familiar with that region and it's racial problems. Well, myself and Joy and i'm sure a few others, are familiar and we've had yuo figured from the get go

also, it's funny how yuo ignored my questions blah, and YET i was the only fucking white dude who was debating yuor points at length, and that is fucking ironic given the fact that yuor thread was originally titled towards white posters, but yuo ignored me because i was asking yuo some uncomfortable questions

anyway, i'm done, there's no new information or point of argument being offered so my interest in yuo has waned

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
BK I know our history but I know you mean well. :) We're *not* going to agree. That's the *reality*.

I'm glad you know your history. No one here would know that, the way that you put down everything that has to do with BLACK down. (just my perspective)

How come you never have anything nice to say about anything black?

No fighting...just good clean honest conversation. I'm sick of fighting.

Here is an attempt to have a normal conversation that transcends race...

My friends and I are always obsessing about our hair. My friend hates the labor that goes into blowing hers out, I wear mine natural, but I hate sitting at the hairdresser to get it twisted. How do you wear your hair? What products do u use, I'm always searching for the next best product (i'm a product whore, bathroom filled with shit) :wavey:

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever
Just as you want topshotta to understand that race is not important to you, so you should understand why its important to him.

Isnt that fair?

I noticed that of all the things that you and LSG replied to that you failed to reply to the post about the Blacks who (felt that race was important) and suffered and lost their lives in order for LSG and others to enjoy their lives so much now that they can easily ignore their blackness.

It is because of those black people that she can hang out in public places with her white friends...its because of the courage of those that black people that she can say Hi to a white boy and not have to worry about being lynched for it. I know I'm going really deep here, but everything else has been tried and she (and now you) still fail to see the point.

LSG...you can be all the things you are and still be black. Saying you are black and proud of your history doesnt take away from you being a wonderful, caring person and a great dancer. Its just another dimension. Just another great thing to appreciate about yourself.


as you can see they have no answer to that. It is just a prime example of the "me" generation. It doesn't mean a thing to them what someone else did so they can have this freedom to not have a kinship with "black" or "gay" people. Til this day "black" people who feel this kinship work hard so that life can be better for everyone.. If we all felt this way we wouldn't have a "culture" today we would be "white" people with brown skin. That to me is scary and I want no parts of it.

I wish I was in NY too so I can get some one to take care of these Natty Dreds! :D I'm so limited in my choices. :sad:

I love this insinuation that some how because we are proud to be black people that we are some how less intellectual. That is very funny. When in reality what it means is that they can't understand us. We are foreign to them and of course that means there is something wrong with us and not them.

All I can say is I watched a little bit of Rosewood today and it has put me in a place I hate. History is so important and to me if you respected History you would wear the label "black" or "gay" or "asian" or "Irish" or "jewish" as a badge of Honor not as a shackle that would hold you back.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Mrs Guga what *exactly* do you mean by the *stereotypical* black person?



Whatever negative stereotypes people make about black people. But I assumed everyone had a stereotype and I had to do my best to distance myself from that, when I was such a terd and paranoid. LOL! I was so naive.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:17 PM
The only way I would be friends with other blacks is if they were somewhat like me and my friends of other races.

What *precisely* does this mean Topshotta? I have my theories on your answer but I will let *you* do the honors. Come on. *Share* :)

i-girl I hope you come back! I meant to ask you this. How would you feel if you were in a *Christian* environment and a Christian girl says, "Hey i-girl. You have to meet my Jewish friend! I think you two will get along great!" *Or* i-girl here's another scenario. You're in a *Christian* environment and a Jewish girl comes up to you "Hey i-girl we Jewish girls have to stick together because these Christians are so domineering." How would you react i-girl? Both these examples *have* happened to *me*!

Car Key Boi I *don't believe you're white. I *never* did. Bye! :wavey:

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever


My friends and I are always obsessing about our hair. My friend hates the labor that goes into blowing hers out, I wear mine natural, but I hate sitting at the hairdresser to get it twisted. How do you wear your hair? What products do u use, I'm always searching for the next best product (i'm a product whore, bathroom filled with shit) :wavey:

I like herbal essence stuff. You know we can't use certain shampoo, it just strips our hair of everything its worth. Wait was that limiting myself admitting that as a "black" person I can't just use any shampoo made for white people. :o

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl

Car Key Boi I *don't believe you're white. I *never* did. Bye! :wavey:

well, that just shows what a total fucking moron yuo are :)

bye! :wavey:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:26 PM
BK you *never* asked and the situation never came up. :) Judith Jamison the dance great came last year to teach a Master Class at my college and I cried when she left. She's such an *inspiring* person. I relate to her as an *artist* not as a fellow black person.

well, that just shows what a total fucking moron yuo are

bye!

Okey dokey. Run along now little boy. :kiss:

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
I like herbal essence stuff. You know we can't use certain shampoo, it just strips our hair of everything its worth. Wait was that limiting myself admitting that as a "black" person I can't just use any shampoo made for white people. :o

:D

I like Herbal Essence as well...I like the conditioner more than the shampoo. But I have to admit, that I don't wash my own hair :o I'm horrible at it, so I usually find myself at the salon so my sister can do it for me.

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
BK you *never* asked and the situation never came up. :) Judith Jamison the dance great came last year to teach a Master Class at my college and I cried when she left. She's such an *inspiring* person. I relate to her as an *artist* not as a fellow black person.


That is the problem right there. You feel the need to qualify why you relate to her. You have to make it known that its because of this and NOT because she's a black person like there is a problem if you relate to her as a black person. That is why people have problems with you.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:37 PM
That is the problem right there. You feel the need to qualify why you relate to her. You have to make it known that its because of this and NOT because she's a black person like there is a problem if you relate to her as a black person. That is why people have problems with you.

Rocketta why should Judith Jamison's race matter?

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
BK you *never* asked and the situation never came up. :) Judith Jamison the dance great came last year to teach a Master Class at my college and I cried when she left. She's such an *inspiring* person. I relate to her as an *artist* not as a fellow black person.

Great for you LSG, I love her as well. I am a season subscriber to their performances.

P.S. you didnt need to say that you related to her as an artist, not as a fellow black person...not everything has to be about black or not...OK

She is a wonderful artist...PERIOD.

tennischick
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
As for Trinidad *of course* there's classism but skin tone issues? Joy you've got the *wrong* island. You must be thinking of Martinique.

which Trinidad are YOU talking about? Trinidad is replete with "skin tone issues". people refer to themselves as "red" or "Negro" or "Trinidad-White" or "fair-Dougla" or "red-mixed" and all kinds of variations on skin tone. heck your own name reflects the ambivalence that many on the island feel about having black blood coursing thru their veins.

it's pathetic the way you display your internalised self-hate without even the slightest awareness of it. if you had any of the Trini "shame" you would delete this thread and get offline and get some therapy ASAP!!!

you know i generally avoid these "race" discussions but this was too much!!

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Rocketta why should Judith Jamison's race matter?

I posted my previous post before I saw this. Her race doesnt matter...but u made it seem like it did, by bringing it up...

But I know what you were trying to say...see my above post.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:48 PM
Ok BK and I'm *glad* you're a fan as well. Our dance dept is keeping its fingers crossed that Andre DeShields can give us a tech class this semester. :)

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by tennischick
which Trinidad are YOU talking about? Trinidad is replete with "skin tone issues". people refer to themselves as "red" or "Negro" or "Trinidad-White" or "fair-Dougla" or "red-mixed" and all kinds of variations on skin tone. heck your own name reflects the ambivalence that many on the island feel about having black blood coursing thru their veins.

it's pathetic the way you display your internalised self-hate without even the slightest awareness of it. if you had any of the Trini "shame" you would delete this thread and get offline and get some therapy ASAP!!!

you know i generally avoid these "race" discussions but this was too much!!

I understand where you are coming from. I do agree that LSG is a lil naive if she doesnt know about the color issues in Trini.

I was hoping that we could all decide to change the tone of this thread, because I have had a great time in here...good and bad. We just have to understand that its ok for us to embrace out "blackness" just as its ok for her not to. I know you may not like it, but its only fair.

Where in the Caribe are you from? I have lots of family all over the Caribbean.

Car Key Boi
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by tennischick
which Trinidad are YOU talking about? Trinidad is replete with "skin tone issues". people refer to themselves as "red" or "Negro" or "Trinidad-White" or "fair-Dougla" or "red-mixed" and all kinds of variations on skin tone. heck your own name reflects the ambivalence that many on the island feel about having black blood coursing thru their veins.

it's pathetic the way you display your internalised self-hate without even the slightest awareness of it. if you had any of the Trini "shame" you would delete this thread and get offline and get some therapy ASAP!!!

you know i generally avoid these "race" discussions but this was too much!!

thank yuo tennischick!

i made that exact same point but not as well as yuo have just done

obviously my knowledge of that island and it's people is not as expert and extensive as yuors, or anywhere even approaching it

but it appears that my knowledge is a damn size better than LSG's who is descended from there!

either that or LSG was lying to the board when she made that remark, just as she lies to herself

that is all (for definte this time)

- Car Key Boi

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:54 PM
Hey I'm going to the Carribbean in April!

I'm going to Curacao, Venezuela, Trindad, St. Martinique, Bahamas, & St. Thomas. Its a 10 day cruise. :)

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 10:57 PM
Car Key Boi you'd impress me *IF* I could be convinced you had a life *away from this board*.

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Ok BK and I'm *glad* you're a fan as well. Our dance dept is keeping its fingers crossed that Andre DeShields can give us a tech class this semester. :)

I love him, he does alot of work with Marsalis. I think he was in the Full Monty on broadway as well, but I missed him in it.

Are you a dance major?

What about my hair question...I'm on a quest to find some new hair products. I always start out liking a product and then I think my hair gets used to it :) and then it just doesnt work as well anymore :confused:

tennischick
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:03 PM
BK4ever:
i'm American, born and raised in NY but spent every summer of my life in the Caribbean growing up. i have a feel for most of the islands by now altho' lately my job has been taking me more to the Dutch-Caribbean islands which are fascinating in their own unique way. i'm trying to learn Papimentu. interesting language! i seriously suck at it. :)

thanks Car Key. it's not often i explode like that but LSG has serious issues! BK is right to try to change the tone of the thread. but i think i'll just follow your lead and just skip on outta here.

tennischick
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
Hey I'm going to the Carribbean in April!

I'm going to Curacao, Venezuela, Trindad, St. Martinique, Bahamas, & St. Thomas. Its a 10 day cruise. :)

nice itinerary! altho you won't get much of a chance to see any island in depth. enjoy yourself. and stay away from the jelly fish!! ;)

:wavey:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:07 PM
Yes I'm a dance major. I'm getting my MFA in dance :) Yes Mr. DeShields was in the *original* cast of Full Monty. I hope we can get him this semester because I *love* his work.

Sorry I *can't* give any pertinent hair advice. I just get it permed every three months and it's pulled back in a bun *most* of the time.

BK4ever
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
Hey I'm going to the Carribbean in April!

I'm going to Curacao, Venezuela, Trindad, St. Martinique, Bahamas, & St. Thomas. Its a 10 day cruise. :)

I'm jealous, its so damn cold here. I would love to be laying on a beach right now. Have fun!

When u go to Bahamas, make sure you go to the bottom of the Paradise Island bridge (on the nassau side) and have fresh conch salad...it is DIVINE...best I have ever had.

I have lots of family in St. Thomas...buy jewelry :D

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by tennischick
nice itinerary! altho you won't get much of a chance to see any island in depth. enjoy yourself. and stay away from the jelly fish!! ;)

:wavey:

Yeah, I know we spend about 10 hours at each port. Some a little less. I think its a great trip to get your feet wet. :)

Rocketta
Jan 24th, 2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever
I'm jealous, its so damn cold here. I would love to be laying on a beach right now. Have fun!

When u go to Bahamas, make sure you go to the bottom of the Paradise Island bridge (on the nassau side) and have fresh conch salad...it is DIVINE...best I have ever had.

I have lots of family in St. Thomas...buy jewelry :D

jewelry, huh? They have good prices? I'm doing this by myself so I really need a game plan before I leave. :)

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by joy
Rocketta- you sure you want to go to venezuela with all the recent social/political upheaval- check with the US Embassy to see if they recommend it- i havent' heard any recent updates but its been bad for the past month or so because they want to overthrow the gov't! Sorry for raining on your parade but i want you to be safe and have a nice trip:)


No that's not raining on my parade. I appreiciate the concern. I don't know I do have to look into that. I know we are going to an island off of Venezuela so maybe that island is out of the frey?? I will look into it before I leave and if its still dangerous I won't get off the ship at that port. Thanks for caring. :)

Ben Brigham
Jan 25th, 2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by sartrista7
My analogy would be as a gay man, I have to say I feel no kinship at all with other gay men. (Most gay men piss me off, to be honest.) I'm not ashamed of my sexuality, but really. I'm more interesting than that. There are other things which define me. It's a complete non-issue.

Sartrista it's quite sad that you don't feel a kinship to other gay men coz the gay men from previous generation gave you the freedoms that you enjoy now and apparently take for granted. While I don't expect every gay man (or woman for that matter) to identify with every facet of gay life I do however expect them (all of them) to appreciate the struggles that older homosexuals had to endure to get straight people to at least be tolerant of us.

On a personal note Sartrista I know that I will probably offend you but you seem to pride yourself in being frank so I will be. I find it ironic that gay men piss you off (you say that in above quote) because your own behaviour at times on this board resembles that of a bitchy queen. Intelligent and articulate but a bitchy queen nonetheless. I don't mean to have a go at you but your post was so ironic I had to say something.

sartrista7
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Car Key Boi
alas, most people are too sensitive in such matters, and i know it's easy for me to say that. There is every likelihood that if i was a black dude i wouldn't be saying this

anyways, the Car Key Boi salutes YUO :wavey:

thankyou :kiss: and it's very true about people being too sensitive, and very true that it's easy to take this perspective from the outside.

Ben... I appreciate the struggles other gay people have had in the same way that I appreciate what Martin Luther King and Malcolm X did for black people in America. Of course it's enabled me personally to be tolerated, but I don't see the world only through a gay person's eyes. And again, there is no logical link to feeling kinship with other gay men! Just because I admire, say, Peter Tatchell for a lot of his work for gay rights doesn't mean that I treat other gay men any differently. There's just no logic there. I feel 'kinship' towards people I like, who share the same interess as me etc. Not because of something as meaningless as sharing a sexuality.

Of course I can be King Bitch. Bitching is good. Noooo... it's just that my idea of hell is to spend an entire night in a gay club. The music, the clientele... shudder.

Someone mentioned Coldplay earlier... they are so good. And Chris Martin is delicious. One thing I really can't believe is how so many Americans will have their music taste dictated according to their ethnicity... there's a British R&B singer called Craig David (great voice, not-so-great songs) who's been trying to break America for the past year, and his record company over there actually told him to ditch his white guitarist - with whom he'd played since they were both kids - because it wouldn't go down too well with hip-hop radio stations. Now that is absolutelely fucking ridiculous.

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 01:08 AM
Sartrista, Stop the STEREOTYPING.

Excuse me, but I like Craig David. He is not to bad and his videos are okay. Don't believe that crap about how his white guitar player won't fit in. Hello? But that is stupid.

What makes you assume that all gay clubs are like that?

Excellent post Ben.;) Agree completly!

Car Key Boi
Jan 26th, 2003, 01:20 AM
Dawn, the business about the guitar player is true

it actually happened, a request' was made to Mr.David to drop the guitar player on the grounds of him being a white dude, that is a fact

whether David acceeded to that request, i don't know

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 01:37 AM
I understand that, but just because some record company wanted that reqest does not mean that people of different culture will not like the guitarist because he is white. Record lables imho are robots, just look at the quality of music they're putting out lately?
Sartrista's first comment before mentioning Craig David was "Many Amercans don't like music from different ethnic backgrounds". Not the EXACT quote.. but you get the drift.:) I think alot of American people actually do like different music. Infact more so then alot of other countries. I for one love everything from the Beatles, to Tupac to Patsy Cline to Enya to Native American music to Bob Marley to R@B and Rock n Roll. ieven have the FF10 soundtrack.

LET ME STOP MY RAMBLING.. HELP ME.. LOL:):)

i-girl
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:51 AM
hi guys, I'm just jumping in to answer LSG's question.

i-girl I hope you come back! I meant to ask you this. How would you feel if you were in a *Christian* environment and a Christian girl says, "Hey i-girl. You have to meet my Jewish friend! I think you two will get along great!" *Or* i-girl here's another scenario. You're in a *Christian* environment and a Jewish girl comes up to you "Hey i-girl we Jewish girls have to stick together because these Christians are so domineering." How would you react i-girl? Both these examples *have* happened to *me*!
I don't think I'm going to give you the answers you're looking for, LS girl:). I've never lived abroad, but every time I've traveled abroad, the longest period being 3 months in Australia and New Zealand, I felt quite isolated, and was always looking for Israelis/Jews. lol, I saw a girl once in a small town in NSW working in a pizza place, and she was wearing a locket with the Star of David (the sign of Judaism), and this was after a month I have not seen a single Jewish person, and I just kind of jumped at her and hugged her:eek: . but I don't think you can really compare my situation with yours. you are in an environment were there are quite a lot of black people, and can't be expected to get excited whenever you see a black person. plus, I'm really not used to being around christian people, definitely less used than you are used to being around white people. so I think it's understandable if you don't jump and hug random Black people;) . I don't get excited over Jewish people in Israel, either;). but I'm sure that if you lived in an all black country, and went to a country where black people were few and far between, you would feel like I do. you would feel that a person who technically is a stranger, is really somehow connected to you, and is not a stranger at all.

i-girl
Jan 26th, 2003, 07:59 AM
and all I really meant to say in my last post was that I don't think that the position of a Jewish person and the position of a Black person are comparable in that situation, due to the sheer (sp) difference in size (of the Black people and the Jewish people). and that I understand that your feeling of being a "minority" might be different than mine, because in terms of size only you really are "less" of a minority than I am. still, I understand Joy's and everyone elses feeling that there is a connection between Black people living in a white society, even if they are a rather large minority.

Dawn Marie
Jan 26th, 2003, 08:55 AM
Ok, here's my final last post in this thread:


I THINK LSG is A PHONY AND FAKE IMPOSTER. I ALWAYS DID SINCE SHE FIRST APPEARED ON THE BOARDS. LOL AT HER NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT TRINI.. lol COME THE HELL ON with that ignorant bullshit! lol



CKB HIT THAT NAIL ON THE HEAD.:)Elementary my dear CKB Elementary.

Hey, LSG how is your cousin or nephew of yours doing the one who dropped out of HIGHSCHOOL ? Did he ever go back and finish? I seem to recall that thread many many months ago, suddenly appearing out of nowhere. I also seem to recall that wasn't that long ago when I stated to a person on IM that I too dropped out of HIGHSCHOOL.

Also what happened to that Kim thread you posted a few days back? It suddenly was unable to venture into? LOL

To those I already chatted to about this.. I still believe she's a total fake. Even if she is *real*she's still a fake.



Excellent post CKB, Joy and Mrs Guga and Topshotta and of course Rocketta :) By the way, I bet you both look beautiful in dreds Joy and Rocketta.

That is all.:)

King Satan
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Ok, here's my final last post in this thread:


I THINK LSG is A PHONY AND FAKE IMPOSTER. I ALWAYS DID SINCE SHE FIRST APPEARED ON THE BOARDS. LOL AT HER NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT TRINI.. lol COME THE HELL ON with that ignorant bullshit! lol



CKB HIT THAT NAIL ON THE HEAD.:)Elementary my dear CKB Elementary.

Hey, LSG how is your cousin or nephew of yours doing the one who dropped out of HIGHSCHOOL ? Did he ever go back and finish? I seem to recall that thread many many months ago, suddenly appearing out of nowhere. I also seem to recall that wasn't that long ago when I stated to a person on IM that I too dropped out of HIGHSCHOOL.

Also what happened to that Kim thread you posted a few days back? It suddenly was unable to venture into? LOL

To those I already chatted to about this.. I still believe she's a total fake. Even if she is *real*she's still a fake.



Excellent post CKB, Joy and Mrs Guga and Topshotta and of course Rocketta :) By the way, I bet you both look beautiful in dreds Joy and Rocketta.

That is all.:)

Want me to find out if she's real?. dawn lol. She lives in my city.

I want my long hair back damn it!!! :( I was gonna get some of those badass thin dreads, but my dumbass cut all my hair off :( pffff@myself :fiery:

King Satan
Jan 26th, 2003, 09:21 AM
LSG, if you wanna prove to them that you're real, hit me up. I'll let them know. ;)

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2003, 10:28 PM
Thanks Dawn!! :wavey:

i-girl---We only make up 12% of the population so if you venture to middle America you really can be isolated as well. However, I do understand your point and you are right. Complete isolation will make you jump a stranger and say I'm sorry but you have to to talk to me. :)

Somehow I think I'll be jumping strangers on my cruise ship when I get off the boat. :eek: On my cruise to Alaska, I was the absolute only 30 something person on the whole ship. LOL 50 something was probably the closes age of the next black person. Luckily for me I cruise to see different places and not to socialize cause I would've been lonely if I had.

sartrista7
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
What makes you assume that all gay clubs are like that?


Uh, I've only, like, BEEN to them.

Nice COMPLETE MISQUOTE of what I said there Dawn. My point wasn't to say that black people wouldn't buy Craig David's records because his guitarist was white. My point was that, even now, the fact that his guitarist was white MATTERED. Record companies suck, especially the big ones, but they always aim to make commercially viable decisions. They told Craig David to ditch his guitarist because they didn't think it would go down well with his market. They were probably wrong. But still, it mattered enough for them to take that decision.

I'm very glad you like lots of different types of music. So do I, everything from Missy Elliott to the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. But you can't say all that you've been saying about race still mattering, then deny that it matters in music. Eminem, for example: you have a great deal of his success in middle America down to the fact that he's white, and you've got him saying how he had to battle with black rappers asking him why, as a white guy, he wasn't doing rock'n'roll when he was coming up. What I'm saying, Dawn, is exactly what you've been saying: race still matters. And then what I'm saying is that it's fundamentally ridiculous that it matters to the extent it does.

Incidentally... if you haven't got it, go and find a song called 'Blood' by the performance poet/rapper chick Sarah Jones. (And the same goes for everyone in this thread.) I think you'd like it, it's one of the best tracks lyrically that I've ever heard. If you can't download it's on the Lyricist Lounge Vol 1 compilation. :D

sartrista7
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
Somehow I think I'll be jumping strangers on my cruise ship when I get off the boat. :eek: On my cruise to Alaska, I was the absolute only 30 something person on the whole ship. LOL 50 something was probably the closes age of the next black person. Luckily for me I cruise to see different places and not to socialize cause I would've been lonely if I had.

You're going to Alaska??? *jealousy* that's one of my DREAM destinations along with Russia. I need to see the Northern Lights so much. Ah, if I had the money... Enjoy (despite the old people)!

JonBcn
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:42 PM
Alex, no offence, but you live in Cardiff. I can name gay clubs that I *know* you would love.

sartrista7
Jan 27th, 2003, 02:50 PM
Jon - good point well made. Cardiff has one club, straight or gay, which doesn't suck. *need to be in London*

JonBcn
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:20 PM
Have you met that awful queen in Cardiff who actually introduces himself as 'Bonnie Tylers nephew'? Stay away from provincial gay clubs.

Rocketta
Jan 27th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
You're going to Alaska??? *jealousy* that's one of my DREAM destinations along with Russia. I need to see the Northern Lights so much. Ah, if I had the money... Enjoy (despite the old people)!

No, I went to Alaska in 2001. It was nice but rainy. I'm going to the carribbean this time but still think there will be nothing but old people. :)

vw43
Jan 27th, 2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
Uh, I've only, like, BEEN to them.



I'm sorry but lmao...:kiss: I love you Alex.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 27th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Thanks i-girl! I'm sorry I gave you the impression that I wanted to hear *particular* answers. That's *not* me at all! I really *detest* people who ask questions for the purpose of getting *certain* replies.

[Originally posted by joy
she answers to what she has carefully rehearsed and regurgitated all or most of her life!

Typical of not being 'satisfied' with the answers you receive. Joy why do you as a person who identifies as black date *white* guys? A *black* man isn't good enough for you?

Originally posted by Satrista7
I appreciate the struggles other gay people have had in the same way that I appreciate what Martin Luther King and Malcolm X did for black people in America. Of course it's enabled me personally to be tolerated, but I don't see the world only through a gay person's eyes. And again, there is no logical link to feeling kinship with other gay men! J

Thank you again Alex! That's *exactly* how I feel about being black but no seems to understand my perspective nor do they even seem willing to consider it as a *valid* one.

Dawn you're being *straightforward* so I'll give you that much. It *doesn't* bother me in the least that you think I'm a fake *because* in my nearly 3 years of posting on tennis boards you have accused *numerous* posters of being fakes, as if you were
*obsessed* with it. Frankly you have *no* credibility in my eyes as a poster, why *others* think you do is simply *beyond* comprehension.

Since you are being *forthcoming* I will follow *your* lead. You're *paranoid* if you think I initiated that topic about my cousin for *your* benefit. Dawn I *do NOT* read this board to see what *you* posted so forgive me for *not* knowing what you're talking about. You were so *obnoxious* and *rude* to mock my thread for my cousin like that! I was *sincerely* asking for advice because there are many *caring* posters on this board *and* many are teenagers like my cousin SO I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THEY THOUGHT OF HIM CONTEMPLATING DROPPING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL. It's your own fault that my thread *struck a nerve*.

As for Trinidad the reason that I *haven't* addressed it *because* that's *exactly* what these naysayers want and I *don't* care if you (or them) don't believe me. I was born there, raised in Florida and California. End of story.

I *should've* told you off long ago but you know what Dawn? When it came to you and annoying *me* I let *many* things you said go because of your *apparent* shortcomings. You've *always* thrown around little *sarcastic* quips at *me* but I *always* took the high road!! Have you *noticed* that I *rarely* respond to you??!! Dawn of course it is not my place or anyone else's to tell you to spend *less* time on this board but I *genuinely* think you need a vacation from the board *because* you are *too* immersed in it, it's really *too* important to you. You're so *territorial* over the board as if your life depended on it.

You're so *pathetic* how you *TRY* to come across as this 'wise' person when *most of the time* you come across as lacking in not only in intelligence but in common sense. That Cree philosophy is *pretentious* coming from someone as *shallow* as yourself and your demeanor on the board *completely* contradicts the essence of it.

Dawn I told you that you're *FRAGILE* and there's pages upon pages of evidence on this board to support my claim. You astound me at how you *try* to be a 'badass' one minute and then you're stumbling all over yourself to kiss (insert poster's) ass for approval. You were so *pitiful* on this recent thread kissing earthcrystal's ass after the way you were racist about her friend Miranda and Asian women. Everyone remembers and they've *forgiven* you but you take it all for granted.

I'll stop now because it is *too* easy to deflate your *INSECURE* immature self.

Ben Brigham
Jan 27th, 2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Sartrista7
Ben... I appreciate the struggles other gay people have had in the same way that I appreciate what Martin Luther King and Malcolm X did for black people in America. Of course it's enabled me personally to be tolerated, but I don't see the world only through a gay person's eyes. And again, there is no logical link to feeling kinship with other gay men! Just because I admire, say, Peter Tatchell for a lot of his work for gay rights doesn't mean that I treat other gay men any differently. There's just no logic there. I feel 'kinship' towards people I like, who share the same interess as me etc. Not because of something as meaningless as sharing a sexuality.

I'm relieved ;) to know that you appreciate the struggles. All gay men (women as well) want to be viewed as multi-dimensional indviduals but there's nothing that says we can't bond as gay people as well. Sexuality isn't meaningless. If it was then society at large would never have had a problem with homosexuality in the first place. It would be the same if we said race was isignificant. If it truly doesn't matter then why do we continue to identify ourselves as white, black, Asian...

Originally posted by Sartrista7
Of course I can be King Bitch. Bitching is good. Noooo... it's just that my idea of hell is to spend an entire night in a gay club. The music, the clientele... shudder.

King Bitch? Sorry I disgaree. Queen Bitch definitely.:p When I learned that you were male I was surprised coz you post in a 'femme' way. Nothing wrong with it at all! I don't fancy clubs either but then again I don't fancy clubs full stop. I prefer pubs. "The music, the clientele"? I'm not really a music fan so I can't comment on that but the clientele I can. In the past I've volunteered at gay youth centres and some of the blokes said the same thing as you about the gay clubs. It was their right of course but then as we spoke more in depth I noticed that they didn't condemn some of the straight clubs in the same manner. They spoke of straight rave clubs that I had been to that I thought were the equivalent of the gay blubs they hated so much. They criticised the gay clubs harshly but in these straight rave clubs they mentioned liking heaps for the alternative atmosphere I witnessed the same low rent behaviour. These blokes said gay men in the gay clubs were promiscuous and over the top. Fair enough but in those straight rave bars I overheard straight blokes talking loudly about looking for a **** to fuck that night. I went to the toilet at that rave club and some bloke was so sick (drug-related) that he didn't make it to the stall and had a shit right there on the floor next to the sink. Shudder indeed Sartrista.

Again I mean no offence but when I hear comments like yours Sartrista I really can think of one thing and one thing only: ashamed to be gay.

Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Excellent post Ben. Agree completly!

Cheers dawn. You're one of my favourite posters so I appreciate the support. :)

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 28th, 2003, 12:57 AM
LSG, I must commend you for sticking in this thread and defending your point for so long and not being phased or foiled by the opposing side which is dominant. I wish I were that strong. I don't have an opinion on the matter anymore because I haven't been following it and it would be ridiculous of me to jump in.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 28th, 2003, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Mrs. Guga
LSG, I must commend you for sticking in this thread and defending your point for so long and not being phased or foiled by the opposing side which is dominant. I wish I were that strong. I don't have an opinion on the matter anymore because I haven't been following it and it would be ridiculous of me to jump in.

Thank you much Mrs Guga. You really *are* that strong but you don't *realize* it yet. Personally you've given the *impression* that you can relate to me on *some* level. Topshotta, too. I *won't* force you to elaborate although it would be nice for the dialogue if you did.

Joy that's fine. Lol@ you and your *high school* games. "C'mon Rocketta let's move to this table with all the cool kids." Joy just look in the mirror and you will see a *fraudulent* person but you know the truth about yourself. You either sit there and *snicker* at your own 'naughtiness' or you *persist* to put on your little charade.

Jakeev
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:04 AM
I cannot believe the internal racism that has been exposed in this very nasty thread.

You should all be ashamed for the crap you are saying to each other........

We are living in a world people where people want each other dead for race and nationality, sexual orientation, and religion.

But to friggen bicker with each other in terms of how dark your friggen skin color is, oh my gosh, that just f%^&^ing takes the cake for me.

Light-skin girl and Joy, both of you have missed the boat as far as I am concerned.........

:fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:23 PM
Jakeeve, I dont think you have any idea what this thread is about...:rolleyes:

sartrista7
Jan 28th, 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
No, I went to Alaska in 2001. It was nice but rainy. I'm going to the carribbean this time but still think there will be nothing but old people. :)

but at least it won't be rainy :D

Ben. I have no objection to bonding with gay people (and *that* kind of bonding is sort of necessary sometimes). But as friends, which is what really matters, I'd rather bond with them as people, not as gay people. There are many people I've met, straight and gay, with whom I have no desire to bond.

Mmm. I think we need to get beyond these masculine/feminine stereotypes. I've been mistaken for a girl before, which I assume is a combination of a) my username, b) the fact that I'm actually articulate and c) my bitchiness. Which is fine. But if we're going to start talking about fighting for gay rights... the effeminisation of gay men is a huge factor in society being able to continue peddling nonsensical stereotypes about them. It works in two ways: 1) gay men fit into this girly stereotype and therefore are not real men, therefore don't deserve to be treated as real men; 2) 'proper' gay men always behave in this pre-determined fashion, and are therefore only acceptable to be public figures if they conform to it because that upholds the status quo and the prejudices which lead back to 1). So it's King Bitch to you :p

Yes, lots of straight clubs are as crappy as gay clubs, but it's the way that gay clubs sell themselves as being the places where gay people *should* go which makes their crappiness even worse. If you're straight and hate the cheesy meat markets, you can go somewhere else; if you're gay, you can't (well, nowhere specifically gay, anyway).

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:19 PM
Sartrista, I hear what you are saying because I have a huge problem with the way gays and blacks are portrayed on television and in other media outlet. Most people meet me they dont even know that I am gay (bi??). The gay men that I call my friends and the kind of gay men that I date are also like me. However, gays are portrayed on TV as cartoon characters almost. Just for entertainment value. You dont see gay men like me or my friends on Jerry Springer or Rickie Lake. Therefore, people who have no other way of seeing gay men believe this depiction of gays and believe that this is the way we all are. It is so sickening. When a child tells his or her parents that he/she is gay the freak out because they believe that this is the way all gays are. It is the same thing with black. If they only way you see blacks is on TV then you dont understand that we have risen way above the stereotypes on TV.

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
but at least it won't be rainy :D


nor cold. ;)

TopShotta--You're gay? :eek: :eek: :D

sartrista7
Jan 28th, 2003, 04:29 PM
Oh, that's 100% true Topshotta... and I don't think many people here realise how much it's true for black people too. Like: the way black musicians are presented in the media, they're EITHER the materialistic bling-bling gangsta rap stereotype OR they're the 'earth mother', socially conscious stereotype. It's the same for female musicians too, still! Unbelievable.

Stereotypes: that's what I really, really hate above everything else. If anyone is betraying their race, or sexuality, or whatever, it's the people who play up to the stereotype. Graham fucking Norton (non-UK people will not have heard of him; consider yourselves lucky).

BK4ever
Jan 28th, 2003, 06:39 PM
Top-Shotta ---ur gay :eek:

Damn, all those dreams I had of me and you were all for nothing :fiery: HOLLER :D

Whats with the (bi??) does that mean I still have a chance :D

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by BK4ever
Top-Shotta ---ur gay :eek:

Damn, all those dreams I had of me and you were all for nothing :fiery: HOLLER :D

Whats with the (bi??) does that mean I still have a chance :D

I am whatever I am feeling at the time. One thing I can say for myself is that I tell every woman I meet that I am "bi" beforehand so they have a choice if they want to go ahead with it before we sleep togather. the last time I slept with a woman was this past summer and that was a threesome...:eek:

Rocketta
Jan 28th, 2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
I am whatever I am feeling at the time. One thing I can say for myself is that I tell every woman I meet that I am "bi" beforehand so they have a choice if they want to go ahead with it before we sleep togather. the last time I slept with a woman was this past summer and that was a threesome...:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

BK4ever
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
I am whatever I am feeling at the time. One thing I can say for myself is that I tell every woman I meet that I am "bi" beforehand so they have a choice if they want to go ahead with it before we sleep togather. the last time I slept with a woman was this past summer and that was a threesome...:eek:

I'm not :eek: over the threesome...

I'm glad to hear that you let the women know that real deal. My feelings for you have just grown even fonder :kiss: because of that comment.

African American women are the fastest growing population of new AIDS cases in this country :sad: Alot of it is due to men/women who go both ways and fail to be upfront about it, as well as use protection.

Have fun and PROTECT urself.

I ain't mad cause u having all the fun without me

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 07:49 PM
No glove no love BK, thats what I say. I have other friends who are VERY BI...who refuses to tell the women in their lives that they also mess with men. A buddy of mine girlfriend is spreggy with twins and she will never know that he bone dudes on the side. The worst part is she has become close to me and try to question me about him but I just cant go there with her. :sad:

The threesome was very hot. My buddy who works as a trainer at NY Sports club in Hoboken :drool: introduced me to this chick that works out there. We had dinner and drinks at my apartment one nigh last August and I was drunk. I was very vocal about my sexuality, my boy has been curious and the young lady was just hot...Needless to say, IT WAS ON LIKE POPCORN...LOL

Mags
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
Oh, that's 100% true Topshotta... and I don't think many people here realise how much it's true for black people too. Like: the way black musicians are presented in the media, they're EITHER the materialistic bling-bling gangsta rap stereotype OR they're the 'earth mother', socially conscious stereotype. It's the same for female musicians too, still! Unbelievable.

Totally agree with you Sarista7!. What is worse is that people also expect you to like certain types of music and fail to consider that you might like others eg. I like R&B, Reggae(stereotyping myself here :drool: ) but my cd collection also contains stuff by artists such as Simply Red, Blondie and John Lennon. Also I played the violin for 10 years and my cd collection also contains Mozart, Beethoven and Debussy(shame on me:drool: ). When anyone asks 'what music do you like' I simply reply 'All types..if I like it I like it!'.


LSG - sorry I have only done a quick scan of this thread so apologies if you have answered this question already- Why did you ask this question of *non-black* posters. Surely the question is valid for all?.

BK4ever
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
No glove no love BK, thats what I say. I have other friends who are VERY BI...who refuses to tell the women in their lives that they also mess with men. A buddy of mine girlfriend is spreggy with twins and she will never know that he bone dudes on the side. The worst part is she has become close to me and try to question me about him but I just cant go there with her. :sad:

The threesome was very hot. My buddy who works as a trainer at NY Sports club in Hoboken :drool: introduced me to this chick that works out there. We had dinner and drinks at my apartment one nigh last August and I was drunk. I was very vocal about my sexuality, my boy has been curious and the young lady was just hot...Needless to say, IT WAS ON LIKE POPCORN...LOL

LOL

I've always been jealous of Bi's...way more opp than me to get your groove on :D

I work at at NYSC sometimes as well...how come no one has ever asked me to do a threesome... :confused: :D

You should plead with ur buddy to do the right thing. I hope he is at least protecting himself with the men, because he sure aint doing it with her :sad:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:15 PM
BK, he is mostly into chicks but will do a little cutie every once in a while. He goes to gay clubs once in a while with me. I know that he uses protection with dudes. I just think that he takes away the choice from his baby moms. Most women dont want a man thats been with other men. A lot of the women that I have been with that knows about me, do so just for the sex. It's kinda freaky. :drool:

Car Key Boi
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:19 PM
lol, Rude Boi, yuo rock!

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Mags
LSG - sorry I have only done a quick scan of this thread so apologies if you have answered this
question already- Why did you ask this question of *non-black* posters. Surely the question is valid for all?.

Mags the *reason* I posed the question to *non-black* posters is because *some* black posters on this board *constantly* bring up the subject of racism which in turn makes *non-black* posters rather defensive. So I was *curious* of how much they discuss racism *away from the board*.

Hi Joy! WELCOME BACK!! :D I guess it's *recess time* at your Carribbean thread. :p

Jakeev
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:23 PM
From what you are talking about topcrappa neither do you.....lol

:lick:

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 28th, 2003, 08:37 PM
Jakeev you said I "missed the boat" *but* I haven't. My experience is just *different* from other black posters *but* they *can't* seem to accept that reality. End of story.

Mags
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Mags the *reason* I posed the question to *non-black* posters is because *some* black posters on this board *constantly* bring up the subject of racism which in turn makes *non-black* posters rather defensive. So I was *curious* of how much they discuss racism *away from the board*.

Hi Joy! WELCOME BACK!! :D I guess it's *recess time* at your Carribbean thread. :p

Thanks for the reply LSG - however I feel that the issue of how much racism is discussed outside of the board would have been valid to all( and indeed we have replies from people from across the spectrum:) which makes for a interesting if not heated debate!). As this thread has shown people from across the spectrum are quite happy to fight their corner regarding issues of race/racism. I suspect that most posters(and that includes black posters too) just read the threads and stay out of it.

Do you not think that by posing the thread to *non-black* posters you are doing what you say some black posters on this board do - seemingly bringing race/racism into everything. :confused: - just my thought!

Car Key Boi
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:47 PM
LOLL Mags

get this, originally Light-skanked Gurl titled the thread "a question for white posters" but later edited it

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Mags
Thanks for the reply LSG - however I feel that the issue of how much racism is discussed outside of the board would have been valid to all( and indeed we have replies from people from across the spectrum:) which makes for a interesting if not heated debate!). As this thread has shown people from across the spectrum are quite happy to fight their corner regarding issues of race/racism. I suspect that most posters(and that includes black posters too) just read the threads and stay out of it.

Do you not think that by posing the thread to *non-black* posters you are doing what you say some black posters on this board do - seemingly bringing race/racism into everything. :confused: - just my thought!

Bingo...I think that LSG was blaming black posters on the board for all the discussions on race. I think she blames her own race for a lot of things. SAD...:sad:

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Car Key Boi
lol, Rude Boi, yuo rock!

;)

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Mags
Thanks for the reply LSG - however I feel that the issue of how much racism is discussed outside of the board would have been valid to all( and indeed we have replies from people from across the spectrum:) which makes for a interesting if not heated debate!). As this thread has shown people from across the spectrum are quite happy to fight their corner regarding issues of race/racism. I suspect that most posters(and that includes black posters too) just read the threads and stay out of it.

Do you not think that by posing the thread to *non-black* posters you are doing what you say some black posters on this board do - seemingly bringing race/racism into everything. :confused: - just my thought!

To answer your question Mags - no I *don't* think I'm bringing race/racism into everything. Mags the *purpose* of my thread was as follow -

I, *Light-skinned Girl*, was *curious* if the posters who are *NOT* black talked about race and racism as much in their *real* lives as they do here on the board. Mags in my *real* life I have friends of *all* races and we do *NOT* talk about race much. I see race talked about *MORE* here on the board than I do *away from it*. That's all. No conspiracy. *Just a question*.

Car Key Boi you and joy just *can't* stay away. :kiss: I'm *surprised* you don't have a Photoshop project to work on for the board. :p

Topshotta you're *so* *reluctant* discuss your to discuss your issues. Sounds like you may have *disliked* being black when you were in *high school*. That's the way your story sounds like to me.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:37 PM
I am not reluctant to discuss they way I felt about being black. I never disliked my color. My parents would never allow that. I was just not inclined to learn more about who I am as a "BLACK MAN". Like I said, you live in a certain enviornment you find yourself living "THEIR LIVES". I will get into this deep with you LSG when I get home. Leaving the office now. :wavey:

CC
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:55 PM
This thread is so long. I feel like I've been reading forever.

Anyway, I've only experienced prejudice in very mild forms and I'm probably not as qualified to discuss discrimination/prejudice as others are. I grew up in the West Indies where I was a part of the majority race, so I always used to feel protected in some way. However, I do know that people pay attention to skin tone and class.

In some ways I understand where LSG is coming from, but I do not endorse her way of thinking.

I think I'm a very unique person (or just weird). I have a very diverse musical taste, I don't dress the way I'm supposed to, I don't speak the way I'm supposed to etc. I get teased by my sister sometimes. I'm supposed to be a stereotypical black person and a stereotypical Jamaican. My ex-boyfriend and his friends, who are Jamaicans, would always make me feel different and unusual because I might not know the latest Reggae songs, I don't speak Patois all the time (they make me into a spectacle when I do), I can't dance, I'm too reserved etc. I don't like rap. Ok, I used to not like rap. (I think I'm in love with 50 cents). But I honestly love everything about my culture and everything about myself. I think my taste in music reflects my personality, which is very laid back. I do listen to reggae and Hip Hop, but I feel that people around me expect to do that all the time and do that only. We speak about people stereotyping us, but why do we stereotype each other?

Here's my prob with LSG's argument: I don't think I need to consciously set myself apart from my race or community because society obviously views us in a negative light, which is what I think she's doing. I know that there is good and bad in every race, nationality, religion, and person. I can see the positives and the negatives and despite what people may think of me and my race I don't care to be anything else. My outlook comes from self-love and pride.

But forget all that, I have a very important personal question that I need opinions on:

Do you think I'm prejudiced if I say I would date any race, but would prefer to marry a black man? This is a serious question. I would like your views please.

Light-skinned Girl
Jan 28th, 2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
I am not reluctant to discuss they way I felt about being black. I never disliked my color. My parents would never allow that. I was just not inclined to learn more about who I am as a "BLACK MAN". Like I said, you live in a certain enviornment you find yourself living "THEIR LIVES". I will get into this deep with you LSG when I get home. Leaving the office now. :wavey:

Good Topshotta! :D I'm *really* sorry I won't be online because I have to get to class *soon* but I do want to share with you, Mrs. Guga and whoever else that's even *remotely* interested that I was 'living their lives' too. My older sister thinks that's why I'm *not* that interested in black culture because I adapted *too* much and as a result of my parents *both* working a lot they didn't notice that I wasn't getting what my older sister calls 'a balanced upbringing'. I always thought I 'blended in' but then it wasn't until sophomore year of high school when we were on a retreat that I *realized* that my friends and classmates (all white) looked at me *more or less* as 'the black girl'. We were up late playing Jeopardy and there was a music question about Public Enemy (rap group) and I had seriously *no* clue who they were and *some* of the guys just burst out laughing (they were a little drunk) and behind my back I heard them saying that I was an "Oreo". It was *so* humiliating but I got over it eventually and learned from it.

That's all I'll say for *now*. Topshotta I *know* you have similar experiences so *please* share. :)

LeonHart
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
Good Topshotta! :D I'm *really* sorry I won't be online because I have to get to class *soon* but I do want to share with you, Mrs. Guga and whoever else that's even *remotely* interested that I was 'living their lives' too. My older sister thinks that's why I'm *not* that interested in black culture because I adapted *too* much and as a result of my parents *both* working a lot they didn't notice that I wasn't getting what my older sister calls 'a balanced upbringing'. I always thought I 'blended in' but then it wasn't until sophomore year of high school when we were on a retreat that I *realized* that my friends and classmates (all white) looked at me *more or less* as 'the black girl'. We were up late playing Jeopardy and there was a music question about Public Enemy (rap group) and I had seriously *no* clue who they were and *some* of the guys just burst out laughing (they were a little drunk) and behind my back I heard them saying that I was an "Oreo". It was *so* humiliating but I got over it eventually and learned from it.

That's all I'll say for *now*. Topshotta I *know* you have similar experiences so *please* share. :)

There's some *eggs at my school too ;) Your not alone believe me.

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by CC

Do you think I'm prejudiced if I say I would date any race, but would prefer to marry a black man? This is a serious question. I would like your views please.

No I don't think that is a racist view at all. That is a preference. I don't have a problem with people who marry outside of their race either. I have a problem when people say I'm only attracted to "white" or other guys then I think there is a problem. I think there is a problem because if you can't see beauty in your own men what does that say about your father or brother. You don't think they are attractive and worthy of you? I think a whole lot of inner turmoil is going on if you take that stance.

Frankly some people could never get over the differences and I understand that. Some people want their children to reflect them in every way. Like I said I just have a problem with the people who only date outside their race that I can't get with. Its like look how open I am but they are not because they exclude their own people.

For me I could date anybody but when I close my eyes at night and fantasize about the perfect man and who I want to marry he is definitely a dark skin brotha. :)

CC
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:49 AM
Thanks.:)

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:25 AM
I don't agree, Rocketta.

Definition of discrimination: Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: => racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

Excluding others on the base of race is the very essence of racism.

Being only attracted to ppl of another race is the other side of the coin. But frankly, being attracted more to ppl of other races has always seemed genetically sound to me (as opposed to incest).
What does it say about you if you are only attracted to your brother/father? :eek: (joking - but not really)


My opinion about group-identity: identifying with a group - something every human does more or less instinctively ("safety in numbers") - is nevertheless the source of almost anything which can go wrong. Forming a group is, in se, already a discriminatory action, because you automatically exclude everyone who does not belong to your little circle. It is the first step to feeling superior... and seeing others outside your group as somehow "less" than you.

Nations do it, races do it, religions do it. Without these "closing of ranks", the "us and them"-retorics no war (nor terrorist act, nor persecution) could ever be possible. (Just my opinion, but I feel strongly about this.) :)

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:58 AM
Well hell Lynx why do we bother having a bond with our families according to you. We should feel the same about everyone. I mean calling people family members is to exclude everyone else who is not a member of your family. Have you heard of the Hatfields and the McCoys?

The problem with the world is not that people identify with one group or another but that people have to then extrapolate that to mean they are better than others. Believe it or not you can feel apart of a group without feeling you are better than the next person who doesn't belong. Maybe not in your world but definitely in mine.

I have to look at my skin and hair everyday in the mirror. I also look at my family everyday. If I don't like it and find it the most beautiful then who the will? To me it is natural to be attracted more to people who look like you then anyone else. Does that mean you can't find others attractive of course not. It means that it is natural to have a fondness for ones own. Now there are many more intagibles that go into being attracted to and possibly falling in love with that others can fill and might lead you to being with someone of another race, religion, nationality.

However, for a black woman (you're a woman right, CC?) to say that they have always wanted to marry a black man is not racist in the least. I serious doubt if someone says I have a thing for blue eyes. I just know I'm going marry a woman with blue eyes or blonde hair. They are saying the exact same thing just more specific.

Its only racists if she said I want to marry a black guy and I can't understand how anyone could kiss someone white or I can't understand how anyone has sex with an asian person.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:15 AM
To me it is natural to be attracted more to people who look like you then anyone else.

You'll have to excuse my weak analysis, as I haven't yet taken Social Psych (that's next semester *sigh), but here goes:

I agree with Rocketta on this quote. Not necessarily in keeping with race, but in general terms.

This isn't always the case, but more often then not, unconsciously we select a mate based on those qualities that we find attractive within ourself, or qualities that our parents (with more emphasis on the parent of the opposite sex) had that we did not acquire ourselves.

So perhaps for some people, race plays a factor - as Rocketta explained.

Not because they consciously say to themselves " I could never marry a white man, or an asian man, or a native man, etc", but because in looking for somebody to compliment themself, they are looking for somebody who identifies themself the same way that they do. Maybe?


That said, *I* don't have any idea on what race I want a potential mate to be. But I also don't identify myself as a "white person" because I have never HAD to do that.

*wonders if any of the above makes sense*

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:30 AM
So Becca, what's your race? I thought you were White. Personally, I don't see myself marrying anyone outside of my race basically because I don't really interact with anyone else. That being said, I can't say that I won't open up more to other races of people and vice versa. I live in a very small southern town, and "mixing" is still a bit unwelcomed. Though, the times are changing slowly and people are throwing caution to the wind more so than they used to. I have never dated outside of my race, but I can't honestly say that I never will or that I wouldn't want to. I tend to think that I will marry whomever I fall in love with and they with me, regardless of their race.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:43 AM
Well I am white. I'm actually an 8th native, but seeing as that isn't visible in my skin colouring, it's a null point for this discussion.

But I don't identify as a race. It's never occured to me to identy myself as a "white person".

As I said above, this is likely because I have never had to do that. There was never ever any reason for me to seek solace in people of the same colour as me who had to deal with discrimination based on how I look, because it just never happened.

I only brought that up to point out that my entire post was based on the little bit of pysch that i learned, combined with a bit of my own reasoning - but that it was not based on my personal experience.

kes
Jan 29th, 2003, 05:50 AM
First of all, great thought-provoking thread - :)

If we lived in a perfect world - where everyone was treated equally - regardless of gender, race, or sexuality, then of course we could go around thinking it didn't matter, that we were black, or female, or gay.

The cold hard truth is we do NOT live in such a world.
Everyday, people are persecuted and killed just because of their race, gender, religion or sexuality.

So - i can't believe it when people are saying "its a non-issue" - just because it does not affect them directly!!!! Have we become so fragmented, so detached from our 'human-ness' that the suffering and discrimination of any other group (as long as its not 'ours' ) becomes irrelevant to us????

And Lynx - i do see your point - but one of the needs of humans, (apparently, after food, shelter, and being loved) is a sense of belonging to a tribe - whether that be a family group or whatever.
We ARE a tribal species - and i think this is VERY apparent - lol.
The trick is to reach a level of maturity and wisdom so that one does not automatically assume that one's own tribe is superior to other tribes. ;)

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 29th, 2003, 05:56 AM
Great post...:wavey:

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jan 29th, 2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by kes
First of all, great thought-provoking thread - :)

If we lived in a perfect world - where everyone was treated equally - regardless of gender, race, or sexuality, then of course we could go around thinking it didn't matter, that we were black, or female, or gay.

The cold hard truth is we do NOT live in such a world.
Everyday, people are persecuted and killed just because of their race, gender, religion or sexuality.

So - i can't believe it when people are saying "its a non-issue" - just because it does not affect them directly!!!! Have we become so fragmented, so detached from our 'human-ness' that the suffering and discrimination of any other group (as long as its not 'ours' ) becomes irrelevant to us????

And Lynx - i do see your point - but one of the needs of humans, (apparently, after food, shelter, and being loved) is a sense of belonging to a tribe - whether that be a family group or whatever.
We ARE a tribal species - and i think this is VERY apparent - lol.
The trick is to reach a level of maturity and wisdom so that one does not automatically assume that one's own tribe is superior to other tribes. ;)

Beautiful!

Mags
Jan 29th, 2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Light-skinned Girl
To answer your question Mags - no I *don't* think I'm bringing race/racism into everything. Mags the *purpose* of my thread was as follow -

I, *Light-skinned Girl*, was *curious* if the posters who are *NOT* black talked about race and racism as much in their *real* lives as they do here on the board. Mags in my *real* life I have friends of *all* races and we do *NOT* talk about race much. I see race talked about *MORE* here on the board than I do *away from it*. That's all. No conspiracy. *Just a question*.


LSG - I never thought there was a conspiracy :confused: , I asked the question because in your previous reply to me you had said that some posters seemed to bring racism into many of the recent posts on the GM board (me summarising here). I too have noticed the proliferation of race issues (hands up who hasn’t? :drool: ). I just think that you question on people’s experiences on this issue applies to all. To me the race/colour of the person is irrelevant in regards to your question – that is why I asked if you weren’t doing what you said others were doing. I wasn’t implying a conspiracy – honest! :angel: .

You have said that you don't talk about race with your peers as much as is talked about on this board and that is why you asked the question. I too have friends of all races, indeed my best friend is Iranian. I too don’t talk about race a great deal with my peers(yes there are discussions – just not everyday like it seems on this board sometimes :drool: ) , so in regards to your question my experience is similar to your own. If I were to heed your thread title I would be specifically excluded from posting that ‘my experience is similar to yours on this issue’, however if my skin colour was different I would be welcome to post the same thing!. :confused: .

You say that you want to be seen as an individual first and not a colour(me summarising here and not quoting), the answers people give to your question I believe would be based on the individual and not their colour – so I think it is a shame that you put white / non-black in the thread.

No attack or conspiracy therory here - just my humble thoughts ok!. :wavey:

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 11:52 AM
Rocketta, hi :) Here's my reaction.
(And hi, Rebecca :) - this is a reaction to your post too).

1) "Well hell Lynx why do we bother having a bond with our families according to you. We should feel the same about everyone. I mean calling people family members is to exclude everyone else who is not a member of your family. Have you heard of the Hatfields and the McCoys?"
Hatfields and McCoys? No, I'm sorry. But yes, to a certain extend the bond with our family is one of the most exclusive, and the first we have to learn to surpass. Most of us do that. Some family-bonds are so strong they lead to injustice to others. The Mob IS in it's origin a family - and they are proud of it. "Cosa Nostra".

2) "The problem with the world is not that people identify with one group or another but that people have to then extrapolate that to mean they are better than others. Believe it or not you can feel apart of a group without feeling you are better than the next person who doesn't belong. Maybe not in your world but definitely in mine."
A group automatically exclude non members. That is what groups are about. Without this group forming we humans like to do, no discrimination of any kind would or even could ever be going on.
Therefore it is quite clear that group-identification is the source of all hatred/persecution/injustice that exist. You may not like that conclusion, but denying it won't make it go away.
And guess what? We live in the same world, we're both humans, group -forming and -identification is the same everywhere... in your world as well as in mine. Although I have the same yearning as every human has - to belong - I deeply distrust groups. And the more they set themselves apart from others, the more I distrust them.

3) "I have to look at my skin and hair everyday in the mirror. I also look at my family everyday. If I don't like it and find it the most beautiful then who the will?"
Maybe I will?
And where did I say you should not like it???

4) "To me it is natural to be attracted more to people who look like you then anyone else. Does that mean you can't find others attractive of course not. It means that it is natural to have a fondness for ones own."
Yes, it is natural, but again it isn't. It is natural to look at your group for safety; it is less so to restrict yourself to it when it comes to mating. From ancient times on, tribes have had rules against this. Women (or men, rules have varied) were supposed to leave their own tribe and go live with another. This is natural behaviour. Groups who didn't follow these rules of thumb (like the nobles in Europe, who only wanted to intermarry) have payed a high toll for this short-sighted behaviour. (In terms of health - physically and mentally.)
"A fondness for ones own", as in "wanting to marry within your group" is all very well when you're a child ("Later I'm gonna marry daddy / mommy"); it is NOT when you have grown up.

5) "Now there are many more intagibles that go into being attracted to and possibly falling in love with that others can fill and might lead you to being with someone of another race, religion, nationality."
True.

6) "However, for a black woman (you're a woman right, CC?) to say that they have always wanted to marry a black man is not racist in the least. I serious doubt if someone says I have a thing for blue eyes. I just know I'm going marry a woman with blue eyes or blonde hair. They are saying the exact same thing just more specific."
NOT true.
What did CC say? She did not say she has this thing for black men. She said she dated with every race, BUT ONLY WANTED TO MARRY WITHIN HER RACE. In your words: she likes all kind of eye-colors, but when it comes to procreate, she discriminates against everyone who doesn't have blue eyes. So this is not a preference thing; it is a discrimination thing.
Now I'm not branding CC a racist, I don't know her but I don't think she is (like you I'm assuming here CC is female). I can think of many non-racist reasons why she would prefer to marry a black guy. It may simply be that it would make her life MUCH easier, because of acceptance in her own and in other groups. (I'm guessing.)
But the facts like she presented them are an almost classical example of what racism is; don't change the definition to fit your own convictions. :(

7) "Its only racists if she said I want to marry a black guy and I can't understand how anyone could kiss someone white or I can't understand how anyone has sex with an asian person."
No, Rocketta: if she had said that, then you could have defended the thesis that "it's just a preference thing". (It would be racism in my book too... but it could be sold as just a preference.)


Thoughts:

• the ancient Greek word for foreigners is "barbaroi". The word still exist in all Western laguages. In English it's "barbarian".
• I just saw a report on tv about an Israelian and a Palestinian who both follow courses at the University of Ghent, Belgium. As a soldier, the Israelian had fought against Palestinians. As a kid, the Palestinian had thrown stones at the Israelian soldiers. Now, they are friends. Both agree that they have acted in the past as part of a group. In Belgium, they belong to the same group: foreign students. They know that, once they return, they will be separated again. Because of group loyalties...

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by HAIL-VENUS
... Personally, I don't see myself marrying anyone outside of my race basically because I don't really interact with anyone else. That being said, I can't say that I won't open up more to other races of people and vice versa. I live in a very small southern town, and "mixing" is still a bit unwelcomed. Though, the times are changing slowly and people are throwing caution to the wind more so than they used to. I have never dated outside of my race, but I can't honestly say that I never will or that I wouldn't want to. I tend to think that I will marry whomever I fall in love with and they with me, regardless of their race. Hear hear! Hail-Venus, if I wasn't married and probably much too old for you, I would come over and propose. :) :o

In Belgium, there are hardly any Black ppl, but there are Turkish and North-African (Arabic, non-black) ppl. "Mixing" with those ppl is frowned upon here also; there are racist reasons, but also a lot of cultural and religious ones (they're mostly moslem).

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by kes
... And Lynx - i do see your point - but one of the needs of humans, (apparently, after food, shelter, and being loved) is a sense of belonging to a tribe - whether that be a family group or whatever.
We ARE a tribal species - and i think this is VERY apparent - lol.
The trick is to reach a level of maturity and wisdom so that one does not automatically assume that one's own tribe is superior to other tribes. ;) Of course we are a tribal species, but stating that fact doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing. I'm saying it's time we should put it in the past, because - like our appendix - it's not of any use to us anymore, it's more a hinderance now.

Kes, the problem lies in the indentification with a group; once ppl do that they tend to give up on "maturity and wisdom". Very often they shut down a part of their brain and listen to their 'leaders' instead. That is true for every group. You can see it in every school, on every playground, in every social or religious group, in every nation AND in every race.

Denying differences is not going to make them go away; but emphasizing them is certainly not going to help either. My opinion. ;)

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Thanks Joy. :D

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:19 PM
Joy! :)

I'm relieved - I thought I had said something which offended you and that didn't sit well with me. :sad:

I have no particular opinion about the whole discussion that has been going on here - it's too far from my experiences; that's why I stayed out.
I only entered yesterday because of Rocketta's reply to CC: I had (and have) a very strong opinion about that.

Since Kess reacted to something I had said, and you complimented Kess, I felt hurt. :p
(I'm very easily hurt, see.) :) :D

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:23 PM
Well, I have some work to do too; I'm not going to be posting for some time either. See you! :)

Mags
Jan 29th, 2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by joy
I understand LSG in a way- she was hurt early on by ignorant people calling her names and she has not learned to separate that from other black people...i hope she sees how dynamic everyone here is and it can only help----i know- i've been down that road when i was in HS or something and someone said "oh, you are trying to act white" but that was HS..and even back then i had all kinds of dynamic friends and i knew then that there was nothing wrong with me or my blackness because i listened to Tear for Fears or Sting or something..so i haven't internalized those feelings and tried to disassociate from my race- and neither do i fit what she seems to think is a stereotypical mold and i dont' have to prove that to anyone- i am just ME and when you meet me and you learn who i am, you find out that i am more than being Black but i don't go out of my way to prove that to anyone. I can listen to Tupac and then i can listen to Korn. i feel confident enough to be proud of who i am and feel free to love who i want, so all is well with my world :D



Joy...I am totally with you on this!. :bounce: You like Tears for Fears and Sting, and like I said in an earlier post I have Simply Red, Blondie and Mozart in my cd collection in addition to R&B, Reggae and Soca too. I believe LSG said she was a rock chick(trying to remember back here) - no big deal to me. Where is it written that she can't like rock and anyone who said she can't because of her colour/race - just proves that ignorance/fools come in all shapes, sizes, colours, nationalities!.

Diversity is the spice of life and black people are no less diverse in the views/thinking/actions/desires than anyone else. This is why I have said that I felt it was sad that LSG included the words "white/non-black" people in this thread. By all types of people coming in and posting, individuals have shown just how diverse they are- wouldn't it be a boring place if we all thought/acted the same!. :eek:

:wavey:

CC
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:47 PM
It seems to have been decided that I'm racist then.

If I may, let me explain myself. Ever since I was younger and would dream about getting married (I think most girls do this) the "husband" in my mind is always the image of a black man. Obviously that's natural because that's mostly what I saw around me. I'm 23 now and that image is still there.

Regardless, I don't think if I met and fell in love with someone of another race I would deny my feelings because he's not what I imagined.

As far as the people around me, I don't think anyone would object to me marrying outside of my race. My family is very relaxed and very confident in ourselves.

I never said I would ONLY marry a man who is black. I said I would prefer to, and all because of a childish pervasive image in my head. We all know that nothing is definite when it comes to matters of the heart.

CC
Jan 29th, 2003, 02:56 PM
P.S. Yes, I am female.

Oh yeah Joy, when I first moved here I felt "culturally shocked." :D

CC
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:01 PM
*Joy, just saw your post

Thanks a lot. I don't feel in my heart that I am racist at all and I know that I am always aware of the feelings and outlook of others and I would never willfully discriminate against someone because of race.:)

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:24 PM
Lynx, I'm definitely not going to draw this discussion out because there is no need. However, I do think it is a lot easier for someone of a majority (I'm assuming you are of the majority in Belgium) to feel that groups are bad. You don't need the "protection" of a group in your life. That surely can not be said of minorities. The security that a group affords people can not be replaced by anything. I also think being in a group is a necessity to perserve one's own heritage and culture. If minorities didn't decide to stay in a group then I feel all of their cultural habits could be lost to the majority. Lets face it the majority rules and their is power in numbers.

I just think if there were no groups there would be no identity and then what's the point.

"But the facts like she presented them are an almost classical example of what racism is; don't change the definition to fit your own convictions. "

No you and I have a complete different oppinion of what racism is. I think there is a big difference between having a "preference" for something and "thinking something is not as good". CC has a preference for her choice of mate its not set in stone but its a preference, a guiding fact. Now if she said I could never marry someone outside my race because I think *&^^ smells and (&^%* are really the devil then yes she has some racist issues.

I think to say that is racism to me trivializes racism. When you start calling every little preference racism well then the big stuff doesn't impact us as much. Lets say CC wants to marry a black guy cause it will be easier for her. She would have an easier time of it with her family and so on and so forth. That's not racism either that's a preference for an easier life. She could just as easily decide to have a preference to have life harder.

Maybe if we lived in a country where we were the majority we would have the option of wanting a groupless life but as a minority in America at least it is not an option. I hate to think what this country would be if black people didn't band together in a group and fight for what they believe in and equal treatment.

I'm with Kegs, if the world was perfect sure I could get with no groups, no countries, etc.. Actually, I dont' think I could ever get with that cause I don't see groups as bad. I just see some aspects of human nature as troublesome of which the main one being the need for someone to feel like less for you to feel like more.

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:32 PM
CC, hi -

From your first post: "Do you think I'm prejudiced if I say I would date any race, but would prefer to marry a black man? This is a serious question. I would like your views please."
From your last: "I never said I would ONLY marry a man who is black."

You're right: you didn't say "only" - my mistake. I made that mistake in my second answer to Rocketta; I didn't re-read everything - I'm sorry.
Still, I found it strange you would date outside your race, but not marry (by preference :) )

"I said I would prefer to, and all because of a childish pervasive image in my head."
I understand that - but that's not how you described it at first; hence my reaction.



"It seems to have been decided that I'm racist then." :eek:

I see you are also jumping to conclusions. :p
I'm the only one you could refer to here - and I don't have the power to decide you're a racist. I said in my second post: "I'm not branding CC a racist, I don't know her but I don't think she is ."


CC, you asked for opinions; if you wanted only opinions you wanted to hear you should have stated so. Don't take off my nose because I said something you didn't like. :)

It is clear I was wrong. I'm still standing behind everything I said, but had I seen your last post first, I would never have reacted - it is very clear there is nothing racist in what you say here. :)

Lynx
Jan 29th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Rocketta, I hear you. Agreed - no need to draw out this discussion; this will be my last post in here.

I understand and agree with most of the things you've said in your last post.
However, I do not think it a small matter when ppl (NOT CC - that was made clear) state they don't want to marry outside their race, because of race. That IS racism - how you can think it trivializing baffles me.

Yes, I am part of the majority in my country, but it is a majority which has been discriminated against for a long time. Altough most of it happened before I was born, I damn well know how it feels.

I accept your judgment that without the protection of the group, you would have a rougher time in your country. So I spoke before my turn - although I always will see group-identification as the source of many evils. Hiding in a group, ppl can and will do unspeakable things they would never dream of doing if they were alone...

But we can agree to disagree. :)
See you around.

CC
Jan 29th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Lynx
CC, hi -

From your first post: "Do you think I'm prejudiced if I say I would date any race, but would prefer to marry a black man? This is a serious question. I would like your views please."
From your last: "I never said I would ONLY marry a man who is black."

You're right: you didn't say "only" - my mistake. I made that mistake in my second answer to Rocketta; I didn't re-read everything - I'm sorry.
Still, I found it strange you would date outside your race, but not marry (by preference :) )

"I said I would prefer to, and all because of a childish pervasive image in my head."
I understand that - but that's not how you described it at first; hence my reaction.



"It seems to have been decided that I'm racist then." :eek:

I see you are also jumping to conclusions. :p
I'm the only one you could refer to here - and I don't have the power to decide you're a racist. I said in my second post: "I'm not branding CC a racist, I don't know her but I don't think she is ."


CC, you asked for opinions; if you wanted only opinions you wanted to hear you should have stated so. Don't take off my nose because I said something you didn't like. :)

It is clear I was wrong. I'm still standing behind everything I said, but had I seen your last post first, I would never have reacted - it is very clear there is nothing racist in what you say here. :)

I do appreciate a variety of opinons. I know you said you didn't think I was racist but in another point you said "the facts as she presented them are almost a classical example of racism" so that kinda confused me. Of course, now I realize that my facts weren't presented in as much detail as was necessary.;)

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Lynx

I accept your judgment that without the protection of the group, you would have a rougher time in your country. So I spoke before my turn - although I always will see group-identification as the source of many evils. Hiding in a group, ppl can and will do unspeakable things they would never dream of doing if they were alone...

But we can agree to disagree. :)
See you around.

I agree with a lot of what you said about the group mentality. I just disagree with the source of the problem.

Discussion ended. :)

saki
Jan 29th, 2003, 09:19 PM
I've been following this thread, but since I'm in a vague kind of "board sabbatical" hadn't responded. It caught my attention because I'm from an Indian family background, have lived in Britain all my life, and when I was last at home got into a long and involved discussion/argument with a family friend who basically got at me for not valuing Indian culture/tradition enough.

I think that what it comes down to is belonging. My parents were immigrants into Britain, before than immigrants to Kenya, so they've always found their sense of belonging in the Indian community. Spending time with people who think the same way that you do is a nice security thing. My parents also like to spend time with people who think differently and enjoy the challenge that that represents, but they like to be able to come back to the Indian community too. I think that that's how most people feel, and particularly those from a minority group.

The problem that I have is that I just don't have that sense of belonging with the Indian community. When I'm with Indian people, I like some of them, I don't like others, I like some bits of the culture, I don't like others. But I don't feel at home with them. I don't have the same feeling that my parents do that I'm with people who think the same way that I do. I feel more like the outsider when I'm with the Indian community than I do when I'm in the academic community (I'm doing a postgrad in philosophy) or my schoolfriends/university friends.

Essentially, I belong to a different community to my parents/family and they find that difficult to accept. I find it difficult to accept too, in a sense, because there are always going to be people who will insist on viewing me as belonging to a minority group that I don't feel as though I really belong to and refuse to accept that I belong to a group that I don't look as though I belong to.

What to do about this? I personally don't see it as a problem in that I have respect for the Indian community and its role in my parents' lives, I just don't feel part of it. But it makes my parents angry and feel rejected.

There's also, as CC brought up, the question of dating/marriage. I've always gone out with white men, but that's less of a physical thing and more that they just happen to have been the men I've been around. If anything, I find black men most attractive, I just happen never to have gone out with one. I think that when it comes to marriage it's important to find someone with a similar outlook. That might mean someone from your ethnic community or it might not. When it comes to more casual dating, you can learn a lot from someone very different to you because of the way that they challenge you, and sometimes that can work within marriage. But on the whole, I think you have a much greater chance of success with someone like yourself. I'd prefer to marry someone like myself - someone with an Indian background but essentially English - but if I can't I have more in common with someone who is English than I do with someone who is Indian.

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 09:54 PM
Interesting Saki! I have a co-worker friend whose daughter married a white guy. Well she is ok with it but her husband wasn't. He basically disowned her. He kind of feels like your parents (hopefully your parents are not as rigid as him). He wants his culture to be preserved and he wants to do with his grand kids what his parents did with him.

However, they chose to raise their kid in America. They chose to move to a predominately white neighborhood and they chose to send her to a predominately white college. It was like they were telling her two different things. On one hand they were saying completely intergrate yourself into this life and follow this path and then on the other hand they wanted her to have this love and affiliation with India that she will never have.

I feel sad for them both the parents and the daughter. It seems like they have not found that middle ground. An Indian American culture that they can both call their own.

I don't know, your story just reminded me of my friend and her daughter.

saki
Jan 29th, 2003, 10:14 PM
Rocketta - yes, it's very frustrating in that although I respect my parents' culture, I feel as though that respect isn't returned. I try very hard to see their point of view, but they don't try to see mine. Gradually, they're coming to terms with the culture gap. I've never told them about my relationships, but my father certainly has worked it out & seems to be keeping quiet, and eventually I'm sure that it'll all be out in the open. Probably when I find someone I want to marry...

Rocketta
Jan 29th, 2003, 10:27 PM
saki---You're right it is a cultural gap. You know my friend has become very Americanized and now she tells her husband, "If you wanted her to act like a Indian from India you should've stayed there and not moved here!" I think she got that nugget from me. :p ;)