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View Full Version : whose game did people fear mose while going on court..Graf,seles,evert,hingis?


selesadmirer
Dec 28th, 2002, 03:06 AM
yeah which of these 4 players with their game intimitated other players the most..Even before going on court?..Graf,seles,evert,hingis?

ktwtennis
Dec 28th, 2002, 03:09 AM
Seles b/c they knew if she was on, then she'd be running them all over the place w/o errors!

selesrules
Dec 28th, 2002, 03:24 AM
At their best definitely Seles because Graf had a slice backhand they could always go to, Hingis and Evert do not have incredible power, however with Seles at her peak you didn't know where to hit she attacked from everywhere with amazing accuracy and few errors, also her movement in the early 90's was great.

spencercarlos
Dec 28th, 2002, 04:31 AM
For Sure Graf. Great power and great movement. And Grafīs slice backhand at her best is a great weapon. An underated shot for sure. She could also volley as well. Graf was more complete in my opinion.

Seles my second choice, because at her best (1991-1993) Seles did not have a great serve and her net play was awful.
If we call the after 1993 Seles, i think she is a more complete player now, she has shown that she can play at net as well, but her movement is really below the top ones level.

Evert and Hingis were (are) too pasive. They let her oponnents play. It was more that they outsmarted their oponnents than the times they outplayed them.

spencercarlos
Dec 28th, 2002, 04:38 AM
Maybe the Williams sisters are the most feared ever, i can recall Graf and Seles quotes about playing the sisters. "She does not give you much oportunities, she did everything better today" Seles, after losing 6-2 6-3 vs Venus last year San Diego.

And Graf said in 99 Wimbledon that she would have liked Anna Kournikova to beat Venus in round 4, "Because at least Anna let you play, Venus serves so well and returns the same way that sometimes you feel out of the match".

Davenport Rock$
Dec 28th, 2002, 08:42 AM
Seles.

V.Melb
Dec 28th, 2002, 08:50 AM
Definently Seles.
there is no where to hide. She would drill you into submission - NO breathing space. With Graf you could at least go to her backhand and get a rally. Seles would pound you ....i would not enjoy playing her at all.

Rollo
Dec 28th, 2002, 03:20 PM
Surely it depends on the year and the surface. All the women mentioned had many opponents psyched out before they even went onto the court. Hingis doesn't belong in the same class as the other 3 IMO. She was feared, yes, but not to the same degree. Her dominance wasn't as long or by surface).

Seles was much feared from 91 to 93-but not on grass.

Steffi had "it" from 1988 to 90 and in 95-96, but she was more feared on grass than clay IMO after women like Snachez-Vicario dented her armor on the dirt.

In Evert's heyday (1974-80) even top ten women admitted they had no chance on clay. 125 consecutive matches on a surface will do that to a person! Chrissie was always beatable on grass.

Of the 4 therefor I'd say

Clay-Evert
Hard-Seles
Grass-Graf

nuriboy
Dec 28th, 2002, 04:55 PM
I think you have two omissions on your list and that those two top the list: Serena and Venus Williams!

The players you listed are all-time greats no question.
But the most feared players IMO are: The Sisters.
Players say this about them: You win a point when they make a error and you lose when they make a winner. You will never blow them off the field.So the other player is almost irrelevant! When they are on you lose and when they are off you have a CHANCE to win. Now that is what I call FEAR!!

hingis-seles
Dec 28th, 2002, 05:20 PM
Sticking to the question, I'll say that Monica Seles' game put the most fear into the other players. Everyone's already stated the reasons.

In Steffi's case, I think it was more the reputation she had. Lots of players feared her reputation than they did her game. But then again, it all comes down to one thing.


I'd say it's a tie between Seles and Graf and if I have to pick one, I'd give Seles the edge.

oggie
Dec 28th, 2002, 05:23 PM
Seles, although Graf is very close too. The only reason I choose Seles over Graf is, again, because of Graf's backhand. With Seles players really felt that they couldn't place the ball anywhere on the court.

GoDominique
Dec 28th, 2002, 05:52 PM
Rollo said it best - they were all feared at certain times and certain surfaces.

And those people who say that, playing Steffi, 'you could at least go to her backhand and get a rally': did it work ? No. Against lower-ranked players, it would only take a few shots and Steffi would hit an unreachable inside-out forehand. I would say that Steffi's forehand was probably the most feared SHOT ever. And her backhand put a lot of pressure on the opponent as well. And because of her great footwork, it wasn't very easy to 'find' that backhand because Steffi would always run around it.

I remember that Steffi once played Barbara Rittner, and Rittner played most of her shots to Steffi's forehand surprisingly. After she had lost (of course !), she was asked why she did that. She said 'I just wanted to lose in a different way than usually' LOL.

spencercarlos
Dec 28th, 2002, 06:01 PM
For sure i remember that quote 94 Australian Open :)

Grafīs backhand so underated, i remembered Hingis saying in 94 that "how come players could not beat her since she only had that "SLICE" " They faced like a moth later in Paris 95 and Graf won 6-3 6-2.
Graf slice was so low, plus it had some pace on it, the best slice backhand ever for sure. She set up lot of points with that shot. Hitting low, made her oponnents put the ball up and thatīs when her forehand was there to put away winners. Not to mention her prefectly disguised dropshot same racket preparation as her usual slice OMG i miss you! :kiss: Steffi ;)

Josh
Dec 28th, 2002, 06:08 PM
You know petosp, you sound a lot like Justine Henin, for sure. ;)

I think they were all four feared in a similar way by their opponents, but I think Graf was feared the most as she was good on all surfaces, Evert and Seles were beatable on grass, whereas Steffi was pretty even on all surfaces.

selesrules
Dec 28th, 2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Josh
You know petosp, you sound a lot like Justine Henin, for sure. ;)

I think they were all four feared in a similar way by their opponents, but I think Graf was feared the most as she was good on all surfaces, Evert and Seles were beatable on grass, whereas Steffi was pretty even on all surfaces.

Seles was beatable on grass? She played only 3 tournaments on grass before the stabbing. THREE. One where she was 15 and despite that she got a 3-1 record. One where she was 16 and she got a 4-1 record losing in 3 sets to the same player who also beat Graf the following match. And one where she was 18 and she got a 6-1 record beating grass court specialists Tauziat and Navratilova, losing to Graf while having all sort of outside concentration to deal with. I would hardly called this "beatable". Graf was crushed at the French by Sanchez etc. 6-2, 6-0 does it mean that she was very beatable on clay? No, you have to look at the overall picture, and before the stabbing Monica was VERY solid on grass, one of the best actually. The thing she was never allowed to continue, it's amazing what she did in 3 tournaments on grass before the stabbing. In fact, in her first 3 Wimbledons Monica did better then Graf and Navratilova did in their first 3 Wimbledons at similar ages.

King Lindsay
Dec 28th, 2002, 06:57 PM
Okay, why "graf, seles, Hingis, Evert"? I just don't understand the reasoning behind the choices. i mean, you're asking who the most feared player was, and you omitted navratilova? Venus and Serena? Ridiculous.

irma
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:01 PM
susanne lenglen?

Josh
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:02 PM
Well I would say she was more vulnerable on grass, seeing that she played Wimbledon 3 times before 1993 and never won it, whereas she had won the other majors multiple times by then.

Graf was about equal on every surface, Seles was excellent on three but vulnerable on grass.

irma
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:13 PM
I think her being vulnerable on grass was more showed after she came back. she reached at least the final in ever grand slam once but in wimbledon where she didn't pass the quarters.

starr
Dec 28th, 2002, 10:15 PM
I know players were just terrified to play Steffi. She had matches won on intimidation alone. She was relentless. It was as if she wanted to win every match at love. The slice backhand wasn't much of a weakness prior to Seles because no player seemed to be able to make her pay for camping out on the backhand side. (I'm talking Graf prior to Seles. And yes I know Arantxa (bless her heart) beat Graf on a few big ocassions, but she couldn't do it with consistency) Graf forced players to learn to hit down the line consistently, something that was more of a rarity before. Navratilova is quoted as saying that she didn't realize that she didn't have a down the line backhand before Graf came along.

Seles was dominating and could easily bagle a player, but she didn't have the same intimidating quality or demeanor as either Graf or Evert.

I remember players saying that they were afraid to make Chris mad. She would get that steely look in her eyes and they knew they were going to have to pay. I don't know if any of you remember seeing Evert narrow her eyes during a match, but it was the signal that she was really not in the mood to lose even one more point. During her heyday she was a real toughie.

disposablehero
Dec 28th, 2002, 11:12 PM
For serve and volleyers, definitely Monica. Ask Navratilova, Shriver, whoever, they will all tell you about going into matches knowing they will get passed again, again, and again.

Barrie_Dude
Dec 28th, 2002, 11:16 PM
Steffi Graf! Especially when she was pissed off!

Jakeev
Dec 28th, 2002, 11:27 PM
Martina Navratilova

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by Selesrules
Seles was beatable on grass? She played only 3 tournaments on grass before the stabbing. THREE. One where she was 15 and despite that she got a 3-1 record. One where she was 16 and she got a 4-1 record losing in 3 sets to the same player who also beat Graf the following match. And one where she was 18 and she got a 6-1 record beating grass court specialists Tauziat and Navratilova, losing to Graf while having all sort of outside concentration to deal with. I would hardly called this "beatable". Graf was crushed at the French by Sanchez etc. 6-2, 6-0 does it mean that she was very beatable on clay? No, you have to look at the overall picture, and before the stabbing Monica was VERY solid on grass, one of the best actually. The thing she was never allowed to continue, it's amazing what she did in 3 tournaments on grass before the stabbing. In fact, in her first 3 Wimbledons Monica did better then Graf and Navratilova did in their first 3 Wimbledons at similar ages.. .

Seles wins on grass (BEFORE THE STABBING AS YOU LOVE TO TALK)
Wimbledon 89
128 W Brenda SCHULTZ-MC CARTHY (NED) 7-6 1-6 6-4
64 W Claudia PORWIK (GER) 6-2 6-4
32 W Eva SVIGLEROVA (TCH) 6-4 6-3
16 L Steffi GRAF (GER)

Wimbledon 90
128 W Maria STRANDLUND (SWE) 6-2 6-0
64 W Camille BENJAMIN (USA) 6-3 7-5
32 W Anne MINTER (AUS) 6-3 6-3
16 W Ann HENRICKSSON (USA) 6-1 6-0
QF L Zina GARRISON-JACKSON (USA) 6-3 3-6 7-9

Wimbledon 92
128 W Jenny BYRNE (AUS) 6-2 6-2
64 W Sabine APPELMANS (BEL) 6-3 6-2
32 W Laura GILDEMEISTER (PER) 6-4 6-1
16 W Gigi FERNANDEZ (USA) 6-4 6-2
QF W Nathalie TAUZIAT (FRA) 6-1 6-3
SF W Martina NAVRATILOVA (USA) 6-2 6-7 6-4
FR L Steffi GRAF (GER) 2-6 1-6

Honestly this shows that the only Great Player she beat in this "ONE OF THE BEST ON GRASS" streak before the stabbing was obviosly Martina Navratilova. Tauziat 92 not even a shadow of the recently retired. She was a baseliner back then. Oh I forgot you did not even know that. Yes she reached finals and for sure was quite an acomplishment for her. But she is far from the very best on Grass. I even Rank Gabriela Sabatini ahead of Monica on Grass, The Finals in 91, and 3 semifinals, and 3 quarterfinals for are better than Seles record there for sure.

Selesīs worst slam performances have been on grass. How can you say she is not vulnerable there and that she is among the best grass court players? IMAO LOL poor you.

As for Graf worst surface was clay, so obviously she was more vulnerable there than any other surface.

ASTRID
Dec 29th, 2002, 07:00 AM
for sure Steffi

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:37 PM
waiting for a reply :rolleyes:

disposablehero
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by petosp
waiting for a reply :rolleyes:

What kind of reply? Maybe an apology for omitting the fact that Monica lost to Lori McNeil on grass? Oh wait, that wasn't Monica.

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:48 PM
Thanks god for Monica never faced her on grass. Lori a great player on grass.

And donīt make me start with the players that have beaten Monica on grass @ Studenikova LOL, Lucic and Testud among others.

PD. I was not waiting for you to reply disposablehero, i was waiting for Selesrules.

disposablehero
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:49 PM
Steffi Graf's grasscourt triumphs previous to her 19th birthday:

Brisbane AUS

WT 14 Nov 1983 - 20 Nov 1983 Grass (O)
Entry: DA
64 W Anna-Maria FERNANDEZ (USA) 6-3 6-4
32 L Helena SUKOVA (CZE) 2-6 3-6


Sydney AUS

WT 21 Nov 1983 - 27 Nov 1983 Grass (O)
Entry: DA
64 W Kristin KINNEY (USA) 4-6 6-2 6-3
32 L Gigi FERNANDEZ (USA) 4-6 1-6


Australian Open AUS

GS 29 Nov 1983 - 12 Dec 1983 Grass (O)
Entry: DA
64 L Liz SMYLIE (AUS) 1-6 Retired

Wimbledon GBR

GS 25 Jun 1984 - 08 Jul 1984 Grass (O)
Entry: DA
128 W Susan MASCARIN (USA) 6-4 5-7 10-8
64 W Sue BARKER (GBR) 7-6 6-3
32 W Bettina BUNGE (GER) 7-5 6-3
16 L Jo DURIE (GBR) 6-3 3-6 7-9

Brisbane AUS

WT 12 Nov 1984 - 18 Nov 1984 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 7
64 B BYE
32 L Corinne VANIER (FRA) 5-7 6-7


Sydney AUS

WT 19 Nov 1984 - 25 Nov 1984 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 10
64 W Linda HOWELL (USA) 7-5 4-6 6-3
32 W Rosalyn NIDEFFER (USA) 0-6 6-4 6-4
16 L Wendy TURNBULL (AUS) 2-6 5-7


Australian Open AUS

GS 26 Nov 1984 - 09 Dec 1984 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 16
64 W Sandy COLLINS (USA) 6-2 6-4
32 W Lea ANTONOPLIS (USA) 2-6 6-1 6-0
16 L Wendy TURNBULL (AUS) 4-6 4-6

Wimbledon GBR

GS 24 Jun 1985 - 07 Jul 1985 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 11
128 W Lisa SPAIN-SHORT (USA) 6-7 6-4 6-2
64 W Andrea TEMESVARI (HUN) 6-3 7-6
32 W Stephanie REHE (USA) 6-3 6-2
16 L Pam SHRIVER (USA) 6-3 2-6 4-6

Wimbledon GBR

GS 22 Jun 1987 - 05 Jul 1987 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 2
128 W Adriana VILLAGRAN-REAMI (ARG) 6-0 6-2
64 W Tine SCHEUER-LARSEN (DEN) 6-0 6-0
32 W Laura GILDEMEISTER (PER) 6-2 6-1
16 W Jana NOVOTNA (CZE) 6-4 6-3
QF W Gabriela SABATINI (ARG) 4-6 6-1 6-1
SF W Pam SHRIVER (USA) 6-0 6-2
FR L Martina NAVRATILOVA (USA) 5-7 3-6

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:50 PM
:o i forgot Monicaīs carreer started in 90 and ended in 93 apologizes.

disposablehero
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by petosp
:o i forgot Monicaīs carreer started in 90 and ended in 93 apologizes.

Yes, in a very real sense it did.

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:54 PM
Well you can throw Navratilovaīs wins on grass before 19 also. Pff you canīt compare based on that.

Because Monica started to win slams at 16. Steffi did at 18?? i think and Navratilova did at 22 years old.

irma
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:58 PM
Wimbledon GBR

GS 24 Jun 1985 - 07 Jul 1985 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 11
128 W Lisa SPAIN-SHORT (USA) 6-7 6-4 6-2
64 W Andrea TEMESVARI (HUN) 6-3 7-6
32 W Stephanie REHE (USA) 6-3 6-2
16 L Pam SHRIVER (USA) 6-3 2-6 4-6

Wimbledon GBR

GS 22 Jun 1987 - 05 Jul 1987 Grass (O)
Entry: DA Seed: 2
128 W Adriana VILLAGRAN-REAMI (ARG) 6-0 6-2
64 W Tine SCHEUER-LARSEN (DEN) 6-0 6-0
32 W Laura GILDEMEISTER (PER) 6-2 6-1
16 W Jana NOVOTNA (CZE) 6-4 6-3
QF W Gabriela SABATINI (ARG) 4-6 6-1 6-1
SF W Pam SHRIVER (USA) 6-0 6-2
FR L Martina NAVRATILOVA (USA) 5-7 3-6

you have to start here since matches before the 16th birthday don't count :p (and you can even doubt wimbledon 96 afterall she was only 16 and two weeks)

irma
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:58 PM
I mean 85;)

spencercarlos
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by disposablehero
Yes, in a very real sense it did. .


Yes as your convenience.

PD: As a matter of fact it started in 1988.

disposablehero
Dec 29th, 2002, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by petosp
Well you can throw Navratilovaīs wins on grass before 19 also. Pff you canīt compare based on that.

Because Monica started to win slams at 16. Steffi did at 18?? i think and Navratilova did at 22 years old.

OK, you sold me. You have convinced me that since Steffi and Martina took longer than Monica to start winning Slams, they are superior players.

disposablehero
Dec 29th, 2002, 09:23 PM
Irma, if you don't count matches before the 16th birthday, then you must ignore Monica's 89.

irma
Dec 29th, 2002, 09:27 PM
of course. I have to be fair;)

but it doesn't matter anyway since when winning at a late age makes you the greatest then novotna rules;)

spencercarlos
Dec 30th, 2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero
Irma, if you don't count matches before the 16th birthday, then you must ignore Monica's 89.

The sad for you and all Seles Fans is that Steffiīs whole carreer was really great and better in comparison to Selesīs. Seles is a great champion as well. But to tell that her (Steffi and other players) wins after 93 are fake is just simply plain and stupid.
The same would be if i say that Monicaīs 6 of 9 slams won does not count only because she did not have to play Steffi.

For sure maybe Monica would have won some of those events or those whole events, but we donīt know, just simply did not happened. Really a shame cause the stabbing is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to tennis.

Seles has her place in tennis among the best ever for sure. But she canīt compete against Steffi who was a champion on every surface.

disposablehero
Dec 30th, 2002, 04:37 AM
Steffi was entered in 7 of the 9 Slams Monica won, not 6. ( 7 of 8 before the attempted murder).

If Steffi was only in 3 of those 7 Finals, it certainly is not Monica's fault.

spencercarlos
Dec 30th, 2002, 05:06 AM
Only Monica knows this one and its a hard question. But why did not she came back?Donīt think to wait 2 and half years away from the sport you love was too much?

Donīt you remember Monica being part of demanding things and etc. to Germany and Wta in that process? Was it worth?

Is Steffi, Arantxa, Mary, Conchita FAKES for winning those slams on Selesīs abcense?

Is Steffiīs fault for Monica not being on better shape after the stabbing?

Is Steffiīs ANOTHER FAKE coming back from 2 surgeries and being able to beat Seles, Hingis, the sisters and Davenport as she did in 98-99?

way
Dec 30th, 2002, 09:21 AM
Of course it's not, petosp.
All these threads just show that it isn't.