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View Full Version : Why people despise Venus and Serena. My opinion.


CanadianBoy21
Dec 26th, 2002, 01:37 AM
they have accomplished so much so far, that i really wouldn't mind if they retired today from tennis if it made them happy.
they both can look proud at their career stats when they retire, even today, they would see four slams each, holding number 1 position, etc...
both are healthy, and both have something else to cling to after they retire from tenns, Venus with her business, and Serena with her acting. before i used to wonder why some people DESPISED them, but now i know why some people DESPISE them EVEN MORE. they are successful. and they are happy. no, one doesn't despise someone because they hate their game, hey, they could turn off the channel and not watch for christ sake, instead of having nightmares of Williams winning another slam. they despised Venus, but now they despise Serena too, because they know that what has happened is what they feared and hoped would not happen, Venus & Serena #1 & #2. Ouch, what a rough blow to the haters! I apparently thought that they ran out of things to put the sisters down and would finally consider realizing what they have achieved, but no, it is more like 'not if they win the grand slam', then when they do, it will be 'not until they win olympic gold in the same year as the grand slam, and win all tournament, not being beaten the whole year', and this just shows that the Despise will not end against the sisters, since if the play both they can't win everything, because one will lose, like Venus did this year, and therefore the HATERS(and yes u are haters) are going to jump on Venus.

But here is the question to an answer I am really really really looking forward too:
Shouldn't you be concerned with more of your faves results? Doesn't it not just look awful when you critisize a player that is above in ranking, popularity, slams,money, etc... then what is your fave?

All I hear is Serena beat up on Venus four times in a row. I don't hear many Jen fans say Serena beat up on her SIX times in a row.
Or Hingis before her absence being bruttaly beaten by the sisters before her absence. Or Lindsay's mental factor lately in not being able to win matches. Or Seles' fitness letting her down in later rounds of tournaments.
It is all the same, Venus that, Venus this. I would suggest u consider what u are posting, because it really shows a bad sign FOR YOU. you are, admit it, OBSESSED.
NO HOPE is left for another few years at all for you, your faves are being CRUSHED.

To My Fellow Williams Fans:
Venus & Serena have achieved what we all hoped for a while ago. They have achieved all that their father predicted. I can now watch matches with little nervousness, since I know that both of them have achieved so much, that they are happy, and that they will continue to win. I hope you have the same feeling as I do
:angel:

nuriboy
Dec 26th, 2002, 01:48 AM
Very nice done and to the point too,superdevil! All the critiscism and the bla bla bla: They are arrogant, the donīt play enough, theyīre boring! And all the while the sisters keep breaking records and setting new standards for tennis perfection!! Thatīs why I love them!! They donīt care!! They know me, you, and everybody else knows that they are the best! And when they stop: no problem. Serena: Iīll act and you Venus? Venus. Iīll design your house and decorate it!! Class all the way!!

Martian KC
Dec 26th, 2002, 02:00 AM
Well, at least you didn't bring the race card into this.

Kiswana
Dec 26th, 2002, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by KC
Well, at least you didn't bring the race card into this.

Well since you brought it up and I'll continue on.

The main reason they are despised is because of their success. The #1 players are always hated for one reason or another.

Another reason they're despised is their Dad's eccentric behaviour.

Yet another is that as far as black players are concerned Venus and Serena didn't behave like the others. When Everett went out to Zina in her last US Open Zina was apologetic about it. Venus and Serena would never do that.

At this point it doesn't matter if they're despised because their tennis is now doing all the talking shutting up so many mouths.

TSequoia01
Dec 26th, 2002, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by KC
Well, at least you didn't bring the race card into this.

So you had to.

:rolleyes:

Pureracket
Dec 26th, 2002, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by KC
Well, at least you didn't bring the race card into this.


Wishful thinking, eh?

Kiswana
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by TSequoia01
So you had to.

:rolleyes:

Yes I did. And please don't act like you mind that I did.

TSequoia01
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Kiswana
Yes I did. And please don't act like you mind that I did.

Uh that was not your quote. That was KC's quote. :confused:

calabar
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:44 AM
[/QUOTE] Yet another is that as far as black players are concerned Venus and Serena didn't behave like the others. When Everett went out to Zina in her last US Open Zina was apologetic about it. Venus and Serena would never do that

I did not know that Zina had apologized for beating Evert. If she did that, then it was a really DUMB thing to do. More power to Venus and Serena. In the words of Tupac - "Keep your head Up".

Freewoman33
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:53 AM
Venus and Serena have been called animals before, you wouldn't be the first. It is out of prejudice, anger and Jealousy that you're espousing your hatred, but there's nothing that people like you can do to hurt those girls because they're a hundred percent hater proof for life.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.

BK4ever
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:55 AM
DokicFan17...u make me ashamed to be a Jelena fan :fiery:

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 26th, 2002, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by Dokicfan17
nahhhh so now why i hate those 2 apes, ewww

Dokicfan17, I did not realize that this thread was about your mother and father...:confused:

And why do you hate them?...:confused:

Crazy Canuck
Dec 26th, 2002, 04:24 AM
Superdevil, you shit disturber! :kiss:

BK4ever
Dec 26th, 2002, 05:17 AM
TopShotta...%ucking hilarious

p.s where in ja are u from, I'm quite familiar with most of the carib isles

Robbie.
Dec 26th, 2002, 05:52 AM
I agree with the gist of your post - people are essentially jealous of the sisters. However i find this passage a little strange.

Originally posted by SuperDevil
All I hear is Serena beat up on Venus four times in a row. I don't hear many Jen fans say Serena beat up on her SIX times in a row.
Or Hingis before her absence being bruttaly beaten by the sisters before her absence. Or Lindsay's mental factor lately in not being able to win matches. Or Seles' fitness letting her down in later rounds of tournaments.
It is all the same, Venus that, Venus this. I would suggest u consider what u are posting, because it really shows a bad sign FOR YOU. you are, admit it, OBSESSED.
NO HOPE is left for another few years at all for you, your faves are being CRUSHED.


Over the past month we have confronted a constant barrage of threads analysing every point of Hingis' downfall - most started by Williams fans. In those threads we have been treated with some really choice pieces of prose about Hingis getting her butt kicked, how hopeless her case is and on and on and on.

There are constant threads about Monicas fitness or lack there of.

And going back a few months lets see the threads about Capriati's on court antics, and the constant shit that she cops for them. And last year we were forced to hear ad nauseum how she had never beaten Venus.

And Lindsay well sadly winning or losing she rarely attracts attention or debate :( She really is the games sleeping giant.

As for Venus' critics, well as with Hingis, there are always going to be detractors when you have been DOMINANT, and are no longer that dominant player anymore. I agree that some of these criticisms have been unjustly harsh, but it comes with territory that some people are going to rejoice in others downfall - its human nature. As a society we love to cut our tall poppy's down I'm afraid :rolleyes:

So let us not make out that the Williams' are the only victim of board stupidity because it just simply isn't true. There are just as many Williams fans sharpening the knives in Hingis' absence as their are fans of other players laying into Venus.

Jakeev
Dec 26th, 2002, 07:28 AM
WHo in the heck is Superdevil? Anyway, paranoia aside, it amazes me that after reading his diatribe, it does not cease to amaze me how he did not admit how some Williams fans are very quick to diss other posters faves.

It's a frequent thing on this board so really this thread does not shed any new light nor solves any problems.....

TeeRexx
Dec 26th, 2002, 08:36 AM
This thread is meant to help little minds like yours, Jakeev. :p

CanadianBoy21
Dec 26th, 2002, 03:25 PM
I am not a UN peacekeeper Jakeev, the thread is not meant to solve any problems u doorknob. I didn't not generalize either. I didn't say that Williams fans are not guilty at all. I am just pointing out what I see. U are a boring old wrinkled granny. Zzzzzzz- BORING

Rob- good post. I guess other players get critisized too a lot.

sideout
Dec 26th, 2002, 04:43 PM
AMEN SUPERDEVIL. AS FOR DOKICFAN17, clearly your intelligence is residing where the majority of your posts are originating.......THE TRASH!!!!!!!!

poor Jelena, I would hope that she continues to try to display a little more class than some of her so-called fans......

Jakeev
Dec 26th, 2002, 07:55 PM
What's the matter Superdevil ya got bored in hell where u belong? And why don't you come underneath my computer where you belong and I will show you what a boring old wrinkled granny I am.

You are a nitwit superdevil with no education about tennis at all so stick with something you know about like kiddie porn or whatever it is you watch all day long.

Oh and TeeRex baby, it takes a simple mind like yours to even think I have a little mind.....perhaps supernitwit is one of your pupils?

anton
Dec 26th, 2002, 08:04 PM
I think some of it has to do with either jealousy or just wanting to see somebody else on tv.

harloo
Dec 26th, 2002, 08:54 PM
Well of course the players and tennis establishment are mad. Two black girls from the ghetto coming into an all white tennis establishment saying they want to be no.1 and are not apologetic about it at all. These girls are not like black tennis players of the past who knew their place. It's alarming to some, and off putting to others. It's understandable IMO. Whenever someone breaks barriers their is always a struggle. I'm glad both sisters have enough class to overlook these people.

Superdevil, I truly do think everyone is criticized on this board. Maybe not to the magnitude of the sisters, but maybe that's because they are too good and theirs nothing anyone can do about it at the moment.

I also feel that when Martina was on top, she was the QUEEN OF SHIT TALKING, now Jen took that position and she has had a bad year. Everytime these two lose it's not such a suprise anymore, and it's not a big hopla about it because they are not expected to win whereas the williams are. Some get overly excited when one of the sisters lose, but I figure it's just that they are excited that their fave may have a chance without dealing with a williams.

CanadianBoy21
Dec 26th, 2002, 11:26 PM
Jakeev, i don't watch kiddie porn, but if i did it wouldn't be as bad as to what u are. I hear u are a pedefile. eww u greasy old granny. Admit it, u're days are passed to have sex with young children, u perve.
"And why don't you come underneath my computer where you belong and I will show you what a boring old wrinkled granny I am."
what the?...
LOL, u are so idiotic u crack me up.

technology by the way is not so advanced that i can come underneath the computer...
u are so fun to argue with, because i know u take these things seriously...
HAHAHA
proves my point, people DESPISE too much.

:kiss:

o0O0o
Dec 26th, 2002, 11:36 PM
Kill the white devils! Pity the poor black souls!

Kiswana
Dec 27th, 2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by TSequoia01
Uh that was not your quote. That was KC's quote. :confused:

Sorry! I wasn't paying attention.

[Thanks Clocker]

I did not know that Zina had apologized for beating Evert. If she did that, then it was a really DUMB thing to do. More power to Venus and Serena. In the words of Tupac - "Keep your head Up".

Calabar Zina was stunned that she had ended Everett's US Open career. She couldn't even celebrate her win (that was the quarters) because she was emotional so she just hugged Chris and walked off. I know you have to show respect like Jana did to Jo Durie at Wimbledon in her final match but Zina was apologetic and that made her look weak. Venus and Serena would never do that.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by SuperDevil
they have accomplished so much so far, that i really wouldn't mind if they retired today from tennis if it made them happy.
they both can look proud at their career stats when they retire, even today, they would see four slams each, holding number 1 position, etc...

Agree

both are healthy, and both have something else to cling to after they retire from tenns, Venus with her business, and Serena with her acting.


point # 1, I couldn't care less what players, including my favourites do besides tennis

point # 2, regarding Serena's acting career, it hasn't even started, I wouldn't call it her "acting", she's only been in a tv show for a few minutes, from that to Hollywood there is a long, long way, and she might find that her athleticsm and ability to play tennis don't help her there. This is not to "despise" Serena, it's the way Hollywood is.


before i used to wonder why some people DESPISED them, but now i know why some people DESPISE them EVEN MORE. they are successful. and they are happy.

so? there are a lot of succesful people, more than then that don't get "despised"

no, one doesn't despise someone because they hate their game, hey, they could turn off the channel and not watch for christ sake, instead of having nightmares of Williams winning another slam. they despised Venus, but now they despise Serena too, because they know that what has happened is what they feared and hoped would not happen, Venus & Serena #1 & #2. Ouch, what a rough blow to the haters!

There is so much rubbish in this paragraph that I don't even know where to start.

First, if I don't like Venus and Serena's game, and they are in every GS final, it means all GS finals are ruined for me, not enough to "hate" them, but enough to dislike their domination.

Second, no one despise someone because they hate their game?, is that superevil commandment # 1?, who gave you the authority to decide why people feel one way or another?

Your comment on people despising Venus, and now Serena because she is succesful doesn't hold water. Personally, I never "despise" Venus, I never liked her, I will never like her, I would have certainly prefered my favourites to win instead of her, but had nothing against her, and still have nothing against her.

Serena is different, and not because she is succesful, Serena changed after being succesful. I don't like her comments when she said that she hasn't even begun to play her best, and before you said Hingis was arrogant as well, I know she was, did it bother me? no, of course I was biased, that's simply human.

I don't like Serena's fist pumping, I find it annoying and I think she does it to intimidate her opponent, other players do it, but Serena does it every point when the match is close, I just don't like it, find whatever reasons you want for me not liking it, I am fine with it.

I don't like Serena's hair, but hey to each his/her own.

I don't like Serena hitting the ball to her opponent in doubles, I've seen that too many times to believe it's just an accident.

And finally, I don't like Serena's game, I find it boring (I said boring, not inneffective). And I don't think Serena is just power, but power is a very important part and I just don't like it.

Do I hate Serena? certainly no, I don't like her, I don't like her game, and I don't like her winning everything, it's my prerrogative.


I apparently thought that they ran out of things to put the sisters down and would finally consider realizing what they have achieved, but no, it is more like 'not if they win the grand slam', then when they do, it will be 'not until they win olympic gold in the same year as the grand slam, and win all tournament, not being beaten the whole year', and this just shows that the Despise will not end against the sisters, since if the play both they can't win everything, because one will lose, like Venus did this year, and therefore the HATERS(and yes u are haters) are going to jump on Venus.



What a piece of authentic rubbish


But here is the question to an answer I am really really really looking forward too:
Shouldn't you be concerned with more of your faves results? Doesn't it not just look awful when you critisize a player that is above in ranking, popularity, slams,money, etc... then what is your fave?



When I criticize them, that has nothing to do with their games or achievements, you can win 100 GSs and still be boring. My favourite doesn't hit the ball to the opponent, and her game (for me) is not boring.

If I criticize a player who is above my favourite in money or whatever you like that doesn't make my favourite anything, does Justine have less money than then? yes, has she won less GSs? yes, does it make Serena's game interesting to my eyes? hell no, does it make my favourite's game less interesting to my eyes? hell no.


All I hear is Serena beat up on Venus four times in a row. I don't hear many Jen fans say Serena beat up on her SIX times in a row.
Or Hingis before her absence being bruttaly beaten by the sisters before her absence. Or Lindsay's mental factor lately in not being able to win matches. Or Seles' fitness letting her down in later rounds of tournaments.
It is all the same, Venus that, Venus this. I would suggest u consider what u are posting, because it really shows a bad sign FOR YOU. you are, admit it, OBSESSED.
NO HOPE is left for another few years at all for you, your faves are being CRUSHED.


another piece of complete rubbish, personally I haven't criticized Venus for losing to Serena, I always thought Serena was the better of the two. And currently Serena is better than the players you mentioned, including my favourites, so? You seem to live off your favourite success, my faves are being crushed? how nice from you, you are asking people to be nice to Venus and choose to attack people's favourite, and then you wonder you get negative responses?

I actually think it's you with the problem. If Justine had won 3 GSs I couldn't care less what people think/say about her, I would just enjoy her success and ignore the rubbish. But I guess the victim role is more fun, isn't it?

Jakeev
Dec 27th, 2002, 07:07 AM
Yes SUperloser I take you very seriously:rolleyes: what's very amazing is how intelligent posters like Fignon can make you look like the bigger loser you actually are.

Like I said stop talking about tennis cause you no nothing about it.

nuriboy
Dec 27th, 2002, 12:01 PM
Fingon: If you donīt like their hair, their game, their actions thatīs YOUR problem. Do we talk rubbish about your favs?!

Experimentee
Dec 27th, 2002, 12:06 PM
Exactly, theres a lot of players that i dont like their game or their hair or their on court behaviour but i dont post rubbish about them at every chance i can get.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by nuriboy
Fingon: If you donīt like their hair, their game, their actions thatīs YOUR problem. Do we talk rubbish about your favs?!

No, and I normally don't say anything, but if somebody starts a whinning thread like this, I just want to clarify a few things.

I am sure superdevil wanted everyone to say "how right you are", "great post", "spot on", but if you post something, especially if you complain and at the same time attack other people (read superdevil's post, how he states that Serena crushes everyone's favourite but his) you have to be ready for criticsm and to be attacked as well.

Infiniti2001
Dec 27th, 2002, 02:36 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same :rolleyes: Why is okay for a "select" few to post what they please with no lengthy responses, but not for others?? Things that make you go hmmm :o

Jakeev
Dec 27th, 2002, 05:23 PM
Fingon you are right as usual. Too bad I have to stoop to the level of superloser to get my own point across sometimes.

Nuriboy you seem like a nice poster. But there are many posters on this board including the originator of this post that have unkind things to say about other players.

CanadianBoy21
Dec 27th, 2002, 05:36 PM
well jakeev, it is a tennis board, u moron, do u want me to post about the weather? u idiot.
no fingon, i don't expect people to say 'great post, etc...' i like critisicm, i really really don't mind it. it's tennis board, not judge judy, lol.
it's not like people on this message board saying 'great post' will increase my confidence, it is high anyways without your help. that was a RUBBISH statement u posted.



oh, and jakeev, if u think YOU know so much about tennis, shouldn't u be a professional coach or something, instead of post your 'WISE' shit on here?


jakeev, u keep on saying how many stupid things i post, yet, i am amazed that u reply to my every single post instead, if i was as stupid as u wish, u would ignore me.

Monica_Rules
Dec 27th, 2002, 05:41 PM
The only reason i used to not like them that much was there arrogance but they have grown up and now i don't mind them.They aren't my favs but i don't hate them either!

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 05:54 PM
thanks jakeev

Superdevil, I don't know what your intentions were to start this topic, and if you expected some backlash from it and are ok with that, good for you. Of course we are not expected to agree on everything. But my perception is (maybe it's not your intention, I don't know, but that's what I feel), that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion as long as it's not against the Williams sisters.

You have to love them, you have to admire them, you have to reverence them, let's leave racism out of this but even then, if we say something negative about any of them we are haters, we are bitter because our favourites get their ass kicked, we hate them because they are succesful, we are obsessed with them :rolleyes: blah, blah, blah , we should be commented on our favourites, etc. etc.

I've seen countless posts despising Jennifer Capriati, Anna Kournikova, Martina Hingis, Monica Seles, Amelie Mauresmo, just to mention a few, many of those posts come from Williams fans, the same that whine when someone dares to say something about the Williams, and you know what?, I don't see the same reaction from their fans, surely, some of them react bad, but I feel that I can start a post saying something bad about Jennifer Capriati, and surely, some or her fans will get upset at me, but they won't call me a hater, they won't say I am obsessed with her, they won't tell me to mind my own favourite, they won't tell me I am bitter because Jenn kicked my favourite's butt.

If I say the same about Venus/Serena, then it's guaranteed that will happen, even some times that I have tried to say something positive about them, I got backlash.

As a result, this board is become a less and less friendly place, many valuable posters had gone, because it's impossible to have an opinion if it's against the Williams sisters, there is an implicit ban on it because if you really want to have a serious discussion about them, the thread will be flooded with whinning, crying and personal attacks.

Notice I don't think all Williams fans are like that, but there is a fair number of them like that, and they seem to make a lot of noise.

nuriboy
Dec 27th, 2002, 05:59 PM
Ok Fingon....just for you to know that there are civil fans too. You shouldnīt generalize. The people who talk rubbish about other players arenīt real fan of their favs!!

Serendy Willick
Dec 27th, 2002, 06:00 PM
Oh puleeze,
I'm gonna defend my favorites against any and everyone. So when someone refers to them as apes like dokicfan just did, what are we supposed to do? Not say anything for fear of offending the so called "constructive critisisers" Bullcrap.

gourownway
Dec 27th, 2002, 06:06 PM
Calling someone an ape is not constructive critisism. It's just plain ignorant. I don't think Fingon is refering to that post.

JCAP
Dec 27th, 2002, 08:45 PM
Finagon has a few good points!!

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:00 PM
It amazes me how people criticize Serena for fist pumping and grunting and say that she is just trying to intimidate the opponent. BULL SHIT. All players do it except Venus. Justine and Momo do it during every big match. What wrong with firing youself up in the heat of battle? That just proves my point that as far as the Williams sisters go, they should be seen and not heard. The little black girls are just getting too uppity...:rolleyes:

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by nuriboy
Ok Fingon....just for you to know that there are civil fans too. You shouldnīt generalize. The people who talk rubbish about other players arenīt real fan of their favs!!

I don't generalize, if you read my post, I placed the word "some" always before "Williams fans". I think you are one of the good ones btw. And I do think there are fans of other players that are very bad, but they don't seem to be that noisy.

nuriboy
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:04 PM
Ok dan fingon!

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
It amazes me how people criticize Serena for fist pumping and grunting and say that she is just trying to intimidate the opponent. BULL SHIT. All players do it except Venus. Justine and Momo do it during every big match. What wrong with firing youself up in the heat of battle? That just proves my point that as far as the Williams sisters go, they should be seen and not heard. The little black girls are just getting too uppity...:rolleyes:

whatever, there is a big difference, it's not the fist pumping itself, it's the way she does it. If the match is close (see against Justine in Berlin, or Els Callens in Wimbledon) she will do it after every point she wins, she bends over and does it in a very notorious way. Justine does it maybe a couple of times in an entire set, only after a difficult point, and she just says "allez" and briefly pumps her fist, doesn't make a ceremony out of it. The only player that does it similar to Serena is Lleyton Hewitt and guess what, I don't like him.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by gourownway
Calling someone an ape is not constructive critisism. It's just plain ignorant. I don't think Fingon is refering to that post.

You are right. I didn't see that post but that's a very rude thing to do, that's plainly an insult and certainly I don't condone that.

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:09 PM
Bull shit fignon..I am sure you are not in Serena's head to be able to tell what her intentions are. So your fave pumps her fist but it is just a little fist pump so thats ok? Some else on this board (a Monica fan)hates her grunting even though it does not aproach the decibels of Monicas. His excuse, Monica started the grunt so it's ok for her to grunt but Serena is just faking...:rolleys:

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Bull shit fignon..I am sure you are not in Serena's head to be able to tell what her intentions are. So your fave pumps her fist but it is just a little fist pump so thats ok? Some else on this board (a Monica fan)hates her grunting even though it does not aproach the decibels of Monicas. His excuse, Monica started the grunt so it's ok for her to grunt but Serena is just faking...:rolleys:

so, I am not allowed to not like Serena's fist pumping?

see my point? I can't have an opinion, I can't not like something on Serena without somebody saying that is bullshit if I can't "rationally" justify why I don't like it.

I don't need to be in Serena's mind, are you? do you know what she thinks? I have a perception, that might be wrong, so may yours. I don't like the way she does, aren't I allowed to?

The example with Monica is a really bad one, I am not a Monica fan and I haven't said anything about Serena's grunting, btw, I don't like either for your information.

I deeply dislike Lleyton Hewitt fist pumping, a lot, as much that I dont' see his matches because he annoys me like hell, am I a Lleyton Hewitt hater as well? :rolleyes:

Find me another player that does it like Serena and I will like it as little as I like it done by Serena.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:20 PM
another thing, my fave pumps her fist and it's a little fist pump and then it's ok, and that's bullshit?

sorry, but do you have bullshit in your brain? I said clearly that I don't like the exaggeration in Serena's fist pumping, obviously if Justine does it without exaggerating she is not filling the pattern is she? :rolleyes:
I don't hate fist pumping, I hate the ritual Serena or L. Hewitt do, if you don't like me thinking like that, you are welcome to kiss my ass.

why do I bother? :rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:23 PM
Sorry Fig, I will pass on the kissing your ass part...I have a cuter ass you might want to kiss mine...:p

I just dont get it. It is sport. Competition at the highest level. Have you ever been passionate about a game you are playing? have you ever played competitive sports?

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Sorry Fig, I will pass on the kissing your ass part...I have a cuter ass you might want to kiss mine...:p

I just dont get it. It is sport. Competition at the highest level. Have you ever been passionate about a game you are playing? have you ever played competitive sports?

well, there are a lot of players playing competitive sports out there and they don't exaggerate it that much.

I just think it's not nice, it's just my taste. I do like my favourite to show some emotions but tennis is a quiet sport, I don't like too much noise and the crowd being too noisy, I just like a more moderate celebration, that's all.

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Well to each his own...I like passion and fire. So much more fun. I think that like you, a lot of stodgy old fasion tennis fans feel the same way (not that I am calling you stodgy and old fashioned). Let me ask you this, what about Martina's tactics when she is winning a match. That cruel, evil grinn...did you enjoy that about her?

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by TopShotta
Well to each his own...I like passion and fire. So much more fun. I think that like you, a lot of stodgy old fasion tennis fans feel the same way (not that I am calling you stodgy and old fashioned). Let me ask you this, what about Martina's tactics when she is winning a match. That cruel, evil grinn...did you enjoy that about her?

to be honest, no, I do recognize that I was a bit blinded by her success and because I enjoyed her game so much, so I would ignore some of her antics. I was biased, and I am still am, and more about Justine, I think their good overcome their bads and I do understand that someone thinks the same about Serena. I don't have a problem with that, my problem is when I am not supposed to have an opinion, if you or anyone else think Justine is boring, rude, ugly or whatever, it's fine with me. I only don't like criticism when is bad intentioned and is obviously being far fetched.

going back to Martina, I think many things she did were wrong and I see some of them under a different light now (the Mauresmo comment, the figth with Novotna for example). She was very arrogant and it didn't bother me but again, I was biased. If I liked Serena's game I could live with her fist pumping :cool:

treufreund
Dec 27th, 2002, 10:03 PM
Fingon, you rock!!!! There are still plenty of us who will say our opinions. I am not a Williams fan but I have said some very nice things at times about them which are either attacked or purposely ignored in a malicous way. But I will continue to post positive or negative regardless of what some morons think.

Irish
Dec 27th, 2002, 10:12 PM
Outstanding posts by the smartest poster on the board, Fingon!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :kiss: :bounce:

Kart
Dec 27th, 2002, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by SuperDevil
they have accomplished so much so far, that i really wouldn't mind if they retired today from tennis if it made them happy.
they both can look proud at their career stats when they retire, even today, they would see four slams each, holding number 1 position, etc...
both are healthy, and both have something else to cling to after they retire from tenns, Venus with her business, and Serena with her acting. before i used to wonder why some people DESPISED them, but now i know why some people DESPISE them EVEN MORE. they are successful. and they are happy. no, one doesn't despise someone because they hate their game, hey, they could turn off the channel and not watch for christ sake, instead of having nightmares of Williams winning another slam. they despised Venus, but now they despise Serena too, because they know that what has happened is what they feared and hoped would not happen, Venus & Serena #1 & #2. Ouch, what a rough blow to the haters! I apparently thought that they ran out of things to put the sisters down and would finally consider realizing what they have achieved, but no, it is more like 'not if they win the grand slam', then when they do, it will be 'not until they win olympic gold in the same year as the grand slam, and win all tournament, not being beaten the whole year', and this just shows that the Despise will not end against the sisters, since if the play both they can't win everything, because one will lose, like Venus did this year, and therefore the HATERS(and yes u are haters) are going to jump on Venus.

But here is the question to an answer I am really really really looking forward too:
Shouldn't you be concerned with more of your faves results? Doesn't it not just look awful when you critisize a player that is above in ranking, popularity, slams,money, etc... then what is your fave?

All I hear is Serena beat up on Venus four times in a row. I don't hear many Jen fans say Serena beat up on her SIX times in a row.
Or Hingis before her absence being bruttaly beaten by the sisters before her absence. Or Lindsay's mental factor lately in not being able to win matches. Or Seles' fitness letting her down in later rounds of tournaments.
It is all the same, Venus that, Venus this. I would suggest u consider what u are posting, because it really shows a bad sign FOR YOU. you are, admit it, OBSESSED.
NO HOPE is left for another few years at all for you, your faves are being CRUSHED.

To My Fellow Williams Fans:
Venus & Serena have achieved what we all hoped for a while ago. They have achieved all that their father predicted. I can now watch matches with little nervousness, since I know that both of them have achieved so much, that they are happy, and that they will continue to win. I hope you have the same feeling as I do
:angel:

So you went away and now you're back again Superhero ... new poster name but sadly posting the same old trash :rolleyes:.

CanadianBoy21
Dec 27th, 2002, 10:38 PM
lol, this is ridiculous.
it seems to me that fingon u are the one that when posting, hopes to get the 'good point fingon, i admire u so much'.
lol
i just don't see how you can criticize Serena's fist pumping.
that is beyond me, because Venus is cold the Ice Princess(not necesseraliy by u), and is encouraged to show emotion. Yet Serena is not liked for her fist pumping? she wants to win, and she'll do anything to win, encouraging herself and keeping her head high, showing positive attitude. Yet, u have Jennifer swearing and snapping at line jugdes, but she doesn't seem to be too much criticized, why? Yeah, she was criticized, but imagine if Venus said to the referee 'what the fuck is your problem, u moron, keep your fucking eyes on the lines', or 'i'm fucking choking'... Venus would never be able to show her face again in public, yet, Jennifer is celebrated because of it, for showing personality.
but it is true in your last comment of your last post, if u liked Serena, the fist pumping wouldn't bother u.
And Serena has never had more variaty in her game than these days, angles, spins, everything. She is becoming as versatile as henin, even surpassing her, she hits angles as much as Hingis does, she approaches the net lot, but she has power, so why not use that too. I would guess it is because u are a henin fan, Serena is above henin, therefore of course u woldn't like her, such like I didn't like Hingis because she was above my faves. Now I like every girl on tour, except some.


P.S. Kart, what a suprise, u followed me again. i knew u couldn't stop replying to my posts

Kart
Dec 27th, 2002, 10:56 PM
Well at least you got a surprise ... your return and your post didn't even manage that for me.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by SuperDevil
[B]lol, this is ridiculous.
it seems to me that fingon u are the one that when posting, hopes to get the 'good point fingon, i admire u so much'.
lol
i just don't see how you can criticize Serena's fist pumping.
that is beyond me, because Venus is cold the Ice Princess(not necesseraliy by u), and is encouraged to show emotion. Yet Serena is not liked for her fist pumping? she wants to win, and she'll do anything to win, encouraging herself and keeping her head high, showing positive attitude. Yet, u have Jennifer swearing and snapping at line jugdes, but she doesn't seem to be too much criticized, why? Yeah, she was criticized, but imagine if Venus said to the referee 'what the fuck is your problem, u moron, keep your fucking eyes on the lines', or 'i'm fucking choking'... Venus would never be able to show her face again in public, yet, Jennifer is celebrated because of it, for showing personality.


you are making so little sense that it's difficult to come up with an answer. You first admit that it wasn't me who criticized Venus for being the "cold ice princess" and then you tell me that I can't criticize Venus for being cold and Serena for being too emotional.

hey, hello?, earth to superdevil? I don't criticize Venus for being like she is, it doesn't bother me, the fact that OTHERS don't like has nothing to do with me or my opinion on Serena.

About what the reaction would have been if Venus insults the referee, we don't know do we?


but it is true in your last comment of your last post, if u liked Serena, the fist pumping wouldn't bother u.
And Serena has never had more variaty in her game than these days, angles, spins, everything. She is becoming as versatile as henin, even surpassing her, she hits angles as much as Hingis does, she approaches the net lot, but she has power, so why not use that too. I would guess it is because u are a henin fan, Serena is above henin, therefore of course u woldn't like her, such like I didn't like Hingis because she was above my faves. Now I like every girl on tour, except some.


stop telling me how I feel or how I should feel. I didn't like Serena when Hingis was my # 1 favourite and also # 1 in the world, what the fuck are you talking about? the ranking has nothing to do with it.

As per her becoming as versatile as Henin, give me a fucking break, Serena is a better player than Henin at the moment, live with that, but more versatile? take the bra off your eyes, versatility is not hitting angles.

I my advice is to watch your own favourite because you don't have a clue. Serena hits angles because when she blows her opponents off court with her power, she gets a short ball, and guess what? she can hit the angle she wants. She comes to the net, 99% of the times for an easy put away after a blasting groundstroke.

Versatilty is much more than that and of course you can have your opinion, I won't get into that but Serena doesn't have any versatilty or finesse, the way I define them.

Watch the Berlin final, the point that got Justine a match point, she hit a drop shot volley from behind her body, a purely instinctive shot, that is versatility, when I see Serena do that, I will think she is versatile.

I guess Monica Seles is very versatile because she hits a lot of angles (more than Serena) :rolleyes:

Pureracket
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:25 PM
nuriboy,
Don't fall for the divide&conquer "you're one of the good ones. . . " ploy. Check the history books, young man. Oddly enough, Fingnon is indeed intelligent.

Fingon
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:28 PM
clocker, if you tell me what I am trying to conquest...

Pureracket
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Fingon
clocker, if you tell me what I am trying to conquest...
Thanks for asking. Honestly, I don't want to get into it. It would open up another can of worms. Ask Volcana about divide&conquer mechanisms or TeeRex. I have a flight to DC at 9am out of Atlanta, and my presentation is not even close to being prepared.

*JR*
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:48 PM
As this topic inevitably became racially charged, here's an ironic twist: Chanda is probably the favorite black female player of people who don't like the W/S. And she runs a circuit of 5 Junior events in the fall accross the American south, with recruitment and coaching done as early as spring each year. While non-discriminatory, this program gets a high % of black participants, based on its focus on introducing talented poor kids to tennis. So while Chanda is totally non-controversial, the Serena of 2012 may only be in the game because of her. You can see details @ www.jstennis.com - and Happy Kwanzaa!

PhoenixStorm
Dec 27th, 2002, 11:57 PM
this whole thread stinks. There is no reason not to like any tennis player because you dont know them. You are a distant fan not privy to their lives you dont know if they are good or bad people yet fans continually make judgements on things they know nothing about.

Its a quiet sport? Who says? Why does it have to be quiet? Do they have muzzle the crowd? How about forcing the crowd to watch via television sattellite to really cut out the noise?

fist pumping? If you can dislike someone because you think they are exaggerating their fist pump? what if they are not exaggerating, what if thats just how they are, what if its sincere and they are just pumped up? wouldnt that make you wrong? My point is that you dont know either way so wouldnt it make sense to give the player the benefit of the doubt? The hewitts, the serenas, the whoever else who pump themselves up by fist pumping.

you know the reasons people dislike players imo are just pathetic and ridiculous. The only comments I have heard that make sense to me is that when people dont like a certain style of play. That makes sense.

Hypocrisy never makes sense and will always be criticized. For example the monica grunting is cool but the serena grunting is not. Hyporcrisy plain and simple which leads to the question. what really irks you about a certain player? Also the "my opinion" exuse is just that an excuse. People form opinions based on experiences or information or some basis and just because you have an opinon doesnt make it legitimate, doesn't make it right, doesn't mean anything if you can't logically defend it.

If I say "i think all germans are secretly nazis in their hearts" am I to be commended and praised because I have an opinion? Should i be left alone and unchallenged and free to express my opinion with no opposition? Please.

Just because you have an opinon doesn't mean youre opinion isn't ignorant. It just means you have one.

At any rate I will state an opinon. In my opinon power tennis is great because its fast exciting and intense. I love watching the skill neccessary to go for an outright winner. The audacity involved to just end the point and take the competion out of it as if they had no say is jaw dropping. However I can also appreciate the variety of players like momo who have move the ball like a sorceress. Who can still incorporate the dynamics

However it takes more skill and ability to go for winners. Power tennis is high stakes, high skill tennis that puts the player on a gambling table where they are betting that their skills are sound enough that they will hit winners and win. Its exciting, because so much hangs in the balance. They lay it on the liine the serenas, the jennifers, the lindsays, the venus', the kims.

Then you have the safe pedestrian players who will take ten rallies to construct a point because either they dont have the skill neccessary to go for outright winners or they want to play a passive game in hopes their opponent makes a mistake. A good tactic but not terribly exciting.

lucic is a power player. she hits a hard ball. However she can't keep it in the court. So a bad power player is not exciting to watch because they dont have the skills to sustain a high stakes game. She should tone it down and follow a more pedestrian game plan.

Then there are players that maintain a 50/50 balance, more or less, of power and variety, mixing in blasts from the baseline with lobs, drop shots, slices and volleys. Players like momo justine and patty come to mind who are a pleasure to watch.

I guess its a matter of taste. Variety can be a beautiful thing to watch but it is just as exciting as watching someone blast the ball into a corner with the speed and accuracy of a master archer.

Playa
Dec 28th, 2002, 12:06 AM
i can sense that the tennis season is about to begin- the claws are coming out and the horns are showing

Ditto ! Big time.

nuriboy
Dec 28th, 2002, 12:13 AM
Nicely said Phoenix.....

Fignon: What about the cursing of Jennifer? You didnīt answer that one!! What happened?! And allez is quiet?!

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 28th, 2002, 01:00 AM
You could scream all you want these people wont get it. Yes, fignon is intelligent and does post some of the better post on this board when it is not riddled with hypocracy and lies. Tell the truth Fig, I see you a mile away buddy...:wavey:

And for the idiots with the Hi Fives, I dont expect any better from any of you. Can any of you honestly say that you dont see the hypocracy and bullshit in the drivel that Fig posted? Give me a break, be honest for once in your life...:angel:

CanadianBoy21
Dec 28th, 2002, 01:10 AM
shut up fingon, stop trying to act like u are some educated intellectual when all u are is tralior trash.
oh and stop trying to read so much between lines, take the general idea. Nobody on here is trying as hard as u. u take every paragreaph, hell, even every sentence apart so u can examine it, lol, it is so stupid.

i think i'll stay out of general message, this is so stupid, lol.

P.S. bye all my friends, the little devil that i am, i think i started a fire and u are the gas, fingon and jakeev. u two always fall for my little games i play on u. love
super devil

P.S.S. Williams fans, see, this is what i mean, we have to deal with these idiots while Venus and Serena are off the court. Soon their tennis will speak again, and the haters will cry again.


:kiss:

Fingon
Dec 28th, 2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by nuriboy
Nicely said Phoenix.....

Fignon: What about the cursing of Jennifer? You didnīt answer that one!! What happened?! And allez is quiet?!

I didn't like Jennifer's cursing, I found it rude and inappropriate. I normally don't comment on everything I dislike about tennis players, the comments on this thread were in response to superdevil "evaluation". I brought up my reasons for not liking Serena to show how wrong he was. What bothered me wasn't Serena's defense but the arrogant assumption that everyone has to think like him otherwise they are haters, hypocrites, talk bullshit, etc. For the record, I don't like Jennifer, not a bit, I don't watch her matches, I don't cheer for her and found a lot of her attitudes annoying, the difference is that her fans are not starting threads all the time to tell me how wrong I am for not liking her.

Allez is quiet IMO, I don't see anything spectacular on it, I've seen Justine quite a few times (in person) and you barely note when she does that, you can disagree though.

Phonexstorm, you are contradicting yourself, you don't need to have "reasons" to dislike someone, you simply do, there are not "valid" reasons and "invalid" ones, they are all valid, except those based on true discrimination (like racism).

In my case, the main reason I dislike her is her game, the other factors like the fist pumping only add up to it, I said earlier that if I liked Serena's game I could live with her fist pumping, I still woldn't like it but it would be compensated, it would be annoying but worth to stand it, as I don't like her game, it's just annoying and can be bothered being tolerant with her antics.

harloo
Dec 28th, 2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by clocker
nuriboy,
Don't fall for the divide&conquer "you're one of the good ones. . . " ploy. Check the history books, young man. Oddly enough, Fingnon is indeed intelligent.


ROTFLMAO!!

Fingon
Dec 28th, 2002, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by SuperDevil
shut up fingon, stop trying to act like u are some educated intellectual when all u are is tralior trash.
oh and stop trying to read so much between lines, take the general idea. Nobody on here is trying as hard as u. u take every paragreaph, hell, even every sentence apart so u can examine it, lol, it is so stupid.

i think i'll stay out of general message, this is so stupid, lol.

P.S. bye all my friends, the little devil that i am, i think i started a fire and u are the gas, fingon and jakeev. u two always fall for my little games i play on u. love
super devil

P.S.S. Williams fans, see, this is what i mean, we have to deal with these idiots while Venus and Serena are off the court. Soon their tennis will speak again, and the haters will cry again.


:kiss:

Ok Superasshole, I didn't insult you in the first place, but as usual, when you run out of arguments (which happens very quickly) you resort to personal attacks.

Do you really think you are that smart? hours after you were "trying" to explain your point come as a smart ass to say you did it in purpose, give me a fucking break.

"we have to deal with those idiots" what kind of freaking retarded are you? you have to deal with the "haters" in a message board?, are you in a kind of crusade?, maybe when you mature you will learn there are things more important in life than tennis players you don't know.

It's also amazing how intellectual dwarves like you feel so brave in an annonimous internet message board, what a pathetic idiot.

Fingon
Dec 28th, 2002, 04:12 AM
btw, you turned a debate into trash, as usual, I am off here, keep defending your beloved Serena

asshole

persond
Dec 28th, 2002, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by Fingon
another thing, my fave pumps her fist and it's a little fist pump and then it's ok, and that's bullshit?

sorry, but do you have bullshit in your brain? I said clearly that I don't like the exaggeration in Serena's fist pumping, obviously if Justine does it without exaggerating she is not filling the pattern is she? :rolleyes:
I don't hate fist pumping, I hate the ritual Serena or L. Hewitt do, if you don't like me thinking like that, you are welcome to kiss my ass.

why do I bother? :rolleyes:


Fingon,

I've read all of your posts in this thread and it's quite clear how full of yourself your posts appear. It's also apparent that you've adopted the role of the "voice of reason", and yet you've committed some of the same offenses you accuse others of. From your statements it "appears" that you operate on different standards for different posters. Take for example the above statement. "How much is TOO MUCH??? Fist pumping is fist pumping no matter how animated the gesture. I guess for you there's such a condition as being a "little pregnant". Either you're pregnant or you're not.!!! Either you fist pump or you don't. It's as simple as that!!!

And how is it that the Williams' fans are so much more "noisy"??? And what exactly is your definition of "noisy"??? Does the same double standard apply here too, as with your "fist pumping' argument??? The Williamses and their fans have had to endure so much abuse on this board, that I'll bet you a "fat man" that no other player and her fans can equal the abuse heaped on the Sisters. And hell no, I'm not talking about the so-called "victim" phenomenon others try to apply to us.!!! I am aware of the abuse other players receive on this board, but for you label all Williams fans as abusers and rebel rousers is nothing short of "criminal".

I and I'm sure many other Williams' fans don't feel we need to have your or anyone elses approval on this board, and whether you like them or not is not the issue. Respect, however, is another matter. There are different strokes for different folks, and variety is the spice of life. People like whomever, but to disrespect the Sisters as has been happening on this board is downright unnecessary and actually quite stupid of the individual. But, shit happens. I only ask that the Sisters be afforded the same courtesies extended to the other players. Nothing more, nothing less.

SerialKiller#69
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Fingon
thanks jakeev

You have to love them, you have to admire them, you have to reverence them, let's leave racism out of this but even then, if we say something negative about any of them we are haters, we are bitter because our favourites get their ass kicked, we hate them because they are succesful, we are obsessed with them :rolleyes: blah, blah, blah , we should be commented on our favourites, etc. etc.

I've seen countless posts despising Jennifer Capriati, Anna Kournikova, Martina Hingis, Monica Seles, Amelie Mauresmo, just to mention a few, many of those posts come from Williams fans, the same that whine when someone dares to say something about the Williams, and you know what?, I don't see the same reaction from their fans, surely, some of them react bad, but I feel that I can start a post saying something bad about Jennifer Capriati, and surely, some or her fans will get upset at me, but they won't call me a hater, they won't say I am obsessed with her, they won't tell me to mind my own favourite, they won't tell me I am bitter because Jenn kicked my favourite's butt.

If I say the same about Venus/Serena, then it's guaranteed that will happen, even some times that I have tried to say something positive about them, I got backlash.

As a result, this board is become a less and less friendly place, many valuable posters had gone, because it's impossible to have an opinion if it's against the Williams sisters, there is an implicit ban on it because if you really want to have a serious discussion about them, the thread will be flooded with whinning, crying and personal attacks.

Notice I don't think all Williams fans are like that, but there is a fair number of them like that, and they seem to make a lot of noise.

Absolutely right on. The problem is not about the players actually. They're just there and have nothing to do with us. The so-called "hate" that people in here so fondly bring up time and again is often caused by the posters themselves. Though now I've realized that this is because most fans in here are fanatics.

I personally think that the players that are the most despised in here are:
1. Martina Hingis
2. Jennifer Capriati
3. Anna Kournikova

And who despise them?




:rolleyes:

A4
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:16 AM
You?

Jakeev
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:31 AM
oh please persond you are as biased as supernumbskull is. Could it be your jealous that people like Fingon make sense? For an old timer as you call yourself you sure don't know much do you?

SerialKiller#69
Dec 28th, 2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by A4
You?

amusing...:)

earthcrystal
Dec 28th, 2002, 10:18 AM
Don't you people ever tire of this same old recycled shit?

Whine...good job...you go...you're a moron....fuck you....kiss my ass....racist.....asshole....granny....whine...(an d begin all over again)..ad nauseum.

Is tennis starting soon? One can only hope, because then, perhaps the real heart and soul of this board will return. The people who love tennis, rather than those who love to hate...or love to whine about hate...or love to stir up shit...or whatever it is they love. Pfft. I'm outta here.

o0O0o
Dec 29th, 2002, 12:43 AM
Game, Set, Match!

Fingon def. Williams fans 6-0 6-0

Playa
Dec 29th, 2002, 12:46 AM
Read earthcrystal's post 5 ZEROS.

PhoenixStorm
Dec 29th, 2002, 01:05 AM
For the life of me I will never cease to wonder why people care if someone hates your fav. It only means one thing: your fav is probably on top winning and they can't stand it so they attack.

To dislike someone you must have a reason just like you must have a reason for liking someone. Whether that reason is ignorant or reasonable is what interests me. For the most part the reasons in this thread for disliking a player are laughable and some even are double standards that apply to one player but not another. Hmmm thats just not worth the time to analyze so just call it like you see it: hypocritical.

Or in the vernacular: a hater.

Fingon
Dec 29th, 2002, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by persond
Fingon,

I've read all of your posts in this thread and it's quite clear how full of yourself your posts appear. It's also apparent that you've adopted the role of the "voice of reason", and yet you've committed some of the same offenses you accuse others of. From your statements it "appears" that you operate on different standards for different posters. Take for example the above statement. "How much is TOO MUCH??? Fist pumping is fist pumping no matter how animated the gesture. I guess for you there's such a condition as being a "little pregnant". Either you're pregnant or you're not.!!! Either you fist pump or you don't. It's as simple as that!!!


first all, the reason I'll quote you it's because it's easier for me to address your points, just a clarification.

now to the point, I don't play a role, in fact I always try to be the "voice of reason", if by voice of reason we understand try to make sense of things, I don't pretend I always do, but I try my best, if when you speak don't try to make sense, well, then you must be drunk or something, I am like that in every aspect of my life, if you don't like it, well...

How much is too much? that's a subjective evaluation, what is too much for me isn't too much for other people, your example of "little pregnant" is not very good, they are quite different things, you can't qualify a pregnancy, you can qualify an attitude. I am sorry but, either you pump your fist or not?, my friend, the word isn't black or white, there are tones in between but maybe you are too blind to see it.

According to you, words like better, worse, nicer, enough shouldn't exist. you said a woman can be pregnant or not, not "little pregnant" (I guess you mean partially pregnant, nevermind). of course, you also can only be alive or dead, not half, but a pregnant woman can walk too much, can't she? or is it she either walks or doesn't walk?


And how is it that the Williams' fans are so much more "noisy"??? And what exactly is your definition of "noisy"??? Does the same double standard apply here too, as with your "fist pumping' argument??? The Williamses and their fans have had to endure so much abuse on this board, that I'll bet you a "fat man" that no other player and her fans can equal the abuse heaped on the Sisters. And hell no, I'm not talking about the so-called "victim" phenomenon others try to apply to us.!!! I am aware of the abuse other players receive on this board, but for you label all Williams fans as abusers and rebel rousers is nothing short of "criminal".



well, English is my second language, but I guess it's your 10th because you obviously don't know the meaning of many word. does the word some ring a bell? I never said that all Williams fans are like that, I said that some of them, to be more precise now, only a few are, but those few are very noisy and look as they are many more.

Regarding the abuse or lack of thereof the Williams sisters suffer, well, my perception isn't that but I could be wrong, but obviously I have to judge according to my perception, I've seen countless thread attacking Martina, Jennifer and Anna, but normally there isn't a disporporationate reaction and they fall into ovlition.

Now you insist I label ALL Williams fans as abusers. Well, you can't read, or you can't understand english, or you are a liar, first, I never used the word abuser which has a completeley different meaning to whinner. Second, if you think that calling someone a whinner in a message board is nearly calling that person a criminal, you really need help, professional help, and third, again, I never said all, the ALL is yours not mine.


I and I'm sure many other Williams' fans don't feel we need to have your or anyone elses approval on this board, and whether you like them or not is not the issue. Respect, however, is another matter. There are different strokes for different folks, and variety is the spice of life. People like whomever, but to disrespect the Sisters as has been happening on this board is downright unnecessary and actually quite stupid of the individual. But, shit happens. I only ask that the Sisters be afforded the same courtesies extended to the other players. Nothing more, nothing less. [/B]

Well, contrary to what you believe, I am not the board's police, I don't even have the time to read it, it happened I had a few days off. If the sisters are "abused" is not my problem, that has nothing to do with this topic where superdevil pretended to know what everyone feels and thinks.

I am sure many people hate the Williams sisters for different reasons, I am sure many people hate Martina, and Jennifer, that's not my problem. All I know is that I have criticized Anna, or Jennifer, and didn't experience any backlash for that, but I can't even mention Venus and Serena (positively or negatively) without being attacked, that's one of the reasons I post much less and prefer my own message board (where people like superdevil would be banned instantly). And that happens to me every time. Venus and Serena are the # 1 and 2 in the world, and I can't even talk about them, and don't tell me that's not true because it happens to me every time I mention them.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 29th, 2002, 04:31 AM
Oh Superdevil, you stir the pot like Topshotta can only DREAM :hearts:

*bows*

Crazy Canuck
Dec 29th, 2002, 04:32 AM
Wait a second - Fingon can't be the voice of reason, that's MY job - sheesh persond.

Get it right!

hollywood7172
Dec 29th, 2002, 08:58 AM
oh these children...

someone posts a thread asking why williamses are dispised: total chaos.

someone posts a thread asking why williamses are loved: total chaos.

i think the number of people who love the sisters FAR FAR outweigh the number of people who hate them. really, anyone who can't sense this needs to take their brain out of their ass. or their ass outta their brain. whichever.

what i really wanna know is why so many people hate jenny cap. i think the people who hate her either equal or surpass her supporters. that makes me love her even more.

but i digress. anyway, why can't we all just get along?

starr
Dec 29th, 2002, 12:21 PM
Fignon!

You have a message board? Can we have the link, pretty please?

starr
Dec 29th, 2002, 12:50 PM
I just went back and read this whole thread, and now I am really furious!!

SuperDevil is taking gratuitous pot shots at "wrinkled old grannies?"

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH The senseless, unprovoked attack on the aged! Those whose only sin is having lived too long. How are they to change this except to die? Is that what SuperDevil is really asking for? The erradication of the aged? The final solution????

Or is it only the successful, unrepentant aged ones? The ones that refuse to shut up. The arrogant ones that think their wrinkles are beautiful. Who don't conform to the demands of the powerful young haters.

:D :D :D :D

gentenaire
Dec 29th, 2002, 01:40 PM
aah, another thread where they pretend to know what I'm thinking :rolleyes:

I guess all Williams fans love all tennis players, they're never biased.

Why can't you just accept that everyone has their own reasons for liking or disliking certain players, that everyone will always be biased in some way. You can never be entirely objective when your favs are involved. And when you don't like a certain person, it's not because you're jealous of this person.

I have my own favourites, but if others don't like them for whatever reason I accept that. Serena fans cannot accept that some people don't like her. There must be something wrong with the people who don't like her :rolleyes: I also often get the impression that people who support players who do not always win are losers and are supporting the wrong players. "Thou shallt only support the number 1 and 2 players, thou shallt only support winners"

I can't stand Jim Carey, he annoys the hell out of me. Does this mean I'm jealous of him? Does this mean that I think he can't act? No, it just means that I think he's annoying, that's all.

Serena y Monica
Dec 29th, 2002, 05:27 PM
I don't know who the bigger joke is...Fingon or Jakeev. Just an observation or two:

Fingon

When Martina had a game to speak of you would maniaclly defend any thing anyone said about her, to the point that I oft times wondered if you had forgotten that she was a seperate entity. So please don't pretend that you have ever been above the fray.

Jakeev

What about this post bothers you...Are you on medication? I mean every word the poster wrote is true on one level or another(even if it was poorly written) so if you are not a hater or envious or any of the plethera of foul things those who dislike Serena or Venus are accused of being then why not just let it ride? Could it be that it hit a nerve...whatever!

Sometimes I wonder why I bother coming in here if a tournament is not ongoing, but then I read threads like this and am amazed at the blatant hipocrasy of those on both sides, and then I laugh...you people do amuse

Infiniti2001
Dec 29th, 2002, 05:37 PM
Serena y Monica
::::applauds fervently:::::bounce: :kiss: :bounce:

Jakeev
Dec 29th, 2002, 06:08 PM
Serena y Idiot of course you agree with TopShitta and Supermoron because you are the same as them. You talk out of your arse with out thinking about what you are saying.

You want people to agree with you not even remotely thinking the things you say piss other people off.

I am a fan of Women's tennis. People like you are not. I don't insight hatred or cause problems like the above mentioned. But I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

If that makes me as bad as you then so be it. I love a good fight so you can keep bringing it on baby.

There are posters such as yourself that seem to think the world is against the Sisters. In fact, what is hysterical on this board is there are more paranoid people such as yourself posting on here than the actual "haters" you keep ranting about.

selesrules
Dec 29th, 2002, 06:13 PM
Jakeev, just forget it. I even started a nice Why people love Venus and Serena thread to show everyone that they are 2 of the most loved players on earth, but somehow Williams fans turned into negative. They just LOVE to see people hate on the Williams, it's as if they always want to be victims they enjoy it. They always want us to feel pity for them, so my suggestion, just say "yeah they are very despised and not loved, poor williams", just keep putting down like their fans do.

Jakeev
Dec 29th, 2002, 06:17 PM
Amen selesrules and I know you got browbeated in that thread too. But if you noticed, the people that always cry foul about the way the sisters are treated are often the instigators of the problems anyway.

They are also "fans" that have no qualms dissing others faves too. It's all paranoia but hell like I said I love a good argument even if its fruitless.:kiss:

Martian KC
Dec 29th, 2002, 06:32 PM
I guess it was our intention to brainwash a williams fan to start a thread like this and possibly see the negative effect it would cause without the williams fan knowing it.