View Full Version : Melanie vs Richard

Dec 21st, 2002, 08:28 PM
who do you think coach better?
i think Melanie is the better one,
Richard just seems to arrogant,
u can talk about Harold and Nick B too...

btw, anyone knows if they are coaching any other players?
i heard Casanova kinda got coached by Melanie,
and back then Lina K also went to her but didnt happen,
anyone else?

Richard is coaching 2 young girls right?
are they playing juniors soon though?

Dec 21st, 2002, 08:42 PM
just cuz you are arrogant doesnt mean you arent a good coach...richard is the better coach, just look where his daughters are compared to where melanie's is...

Dec 21st, 2002, 08:46 PM
Richard is to arrogant!!

Dec 21st, 2002, 08:47 PM
i say Melanie

Dec 21st, 2002, 09:07 PM
The only evidence we have is the results of their players.

Melanie has coached one elite player.

Richard has coached two.

Neither of them is going into the Hall of Fame as a coach unless they can do it with a player NOT their daughter.

Dec 21st, 2002, 09:15 PM
I don't agree with what iluvenuserena said:

I mean, Martina has fallen now, but who's to say that she won't come back? Yes, I know what she is playing really really bad, and the odds aren't looking good, but still. Look as what she was able to do at such a young age. Venus and Serena haven't outdone her yet. Giver her at least that much credit.

Mary Kate

Dec 21st, 2002, 09:22 PM
Melanie coached one player.
Melanie was a former competition player.
Mr. Hingis was a former competion player

Richard taught himself to play tennis.
Richard trained two great players.
He is the only coach in history to train two siblings who won GS titles and were ranked #1 and #2 and he did it from cradle to GS title.

The answer is a little obvious to even the thinking impaired.
Richard is the better coach of the two.

But Melanie has the better looking Afro hairstyle. :)

Venus Forever
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:33 PM
Arrogance is not what makes you a good coach, champions make you a good coach.

Richard has 2 champions, Melanie has 1.

Melanie's champion has not won a GS since 1999 = 4 years this coming Aussie Open.

Richard has won a GS every year since 1999.

Melanie's Champion has 5 GS title.

Richards Champions have 8 GS titles.

Both have been to #1, but Melanie's was there mostly when there was no one to challenge her.

Melanie played tennis, Richard didn't - advantage Richard.

Melanie's Champion has relatively fallen.

Richard's Champions are still on top and have never fallen.


Dec 21st, 2002, 09:40 PM
you can be an average player - that doesn't mean your coach isn't good, doesn't do the right things. I would like to congratulate all the coaches despite who are they coaching

Dec 21st, 2002, 09:53 PM
Richard, although both have done great.

Dec 21st, 2002, 10:20 PM
I never said that Richard wasn't good. As a matter of fact, I give him more credit than anyone else BECAUSE he didn't play tennis and BECAUSE he has two daughters, not just one at the top.
Yes, he is arrogant, but there aren't too many people are aren't at the top of tennis. He has the right to be. Even though I don't agree with how he acts.

That's right, you don't have to be top ranked to have a good coach. The coach helps the player get the where they are, but it's the player themself who stays there. They deal with the changing game and the pressure. Richard and Melanie got their daughters there, but it's up to them to stay there. Unfortunately, Martina wasn't able to. Still, she has been on top of tennis for a long time, and that's something that she should be proud of.

Hingis was clearly the best when she played, but she did have some competition, I mean, you can't say that they just handed her to #1 ranking for such a long time. She had to work to keep it.
The same goes for Venus and Serena, they are clearly the best, their tennis is on a totally different level, much as Hingis' was when she was at the top. So in a way, they are on the same boat, except it's even more amazing since they are sisters

Mary Kate

Ma. Estefania
Dec 21st, 2002, 10:21 PM
Melanie, although with her good and bad things, she is better than Richard.

Dec 21st, 2002, 10:23 PM
Itīs a interesting question, but Iīll go with Richard. Two daughters no 1, 8 GSīs. That seals it. Itīs easy to coach one champion but two?! Hard thing to do!!

Dec 21st, 2002, 10:36 PM
richard is a genius...period...

Dec 21st, 2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by AgassiGirl16
I don't agree with what iluvenuserena said:

I mean, Martina has fallen now, but who's to say that she won't come back? Yes, I know what she is playing really really bad, and the odds aren't looking good, but still. Look as what she was able to do at such a young age. Venus and Serena haven't outdone her yet. Giver her at least that much credit.

Mary Kate

this isnt about martina, serena and venus, its about their coaches...richard coached 2 #1 multiple grand slam winners versus melanies 1...venus and serena continue to improve every year while martina has been falling.

IMO she is falling due to not working on her game which is what a coach is for...so IMO richard is better doesnt mean you have to agree with it...

Dec 21st, 2002, 11:54 PM
Tough question....have been thinking for 10 minutes on this. They both are such different coaches.

I'm gonna sit on the fence...however perhaps if Martina was blessed with the brute-strength Torso's the Williams have and "Natural speed"...I would say Melanie....but then again Richard had to teach them to control their power. For shot selection definately Melanie...for Psych...definately Richard.

Arggggggggghhhhhhh I hate this question and refuse to write any thing else on it LOL Or I would ramble and ramble and ramble etc :-)

Keep Smiling All


Dec 22nd, 2002, 12:50 AM

Why do you care anyway?
every post of yours are offensives towards the williams.

Get over of your delusional fixation on blaks.
Asians are so wierd :rolleyes:

Dec 22nd, 2002, 12:51 AM
BTW the way ,you are a shame to Canadiens.

Dec 22nd, 2002, 01:00 AM
I'm gonna sit on the fence...however perhaps if Martina was blessed with the brute-strength Torso's the Williams have and "Natural speed"

why do people think that venus and serena dont have to work out? That they can eat junk food and sit on couches all day and still win titles? Sorry but it takes hard work no matter what your body type or how tall you are or what ever? And what is natural speed? YOU HAVE TO WORK THE MUSCLES WITHOUT WORKING THE MUSCLE YOU WILL NOT HAVE SPEED.

some people have more to work with but that doesnt mean anything if you dont DO THE WORK.

If all it took was brute strength and natural speed, whatever to that, you would see thousands and thousands of tennis champions. TENNIS IS MORE THAN ABOUT SPEED AND STRENGTH.

Dec 22nd, 2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Kirt12255

I'm gonna sit on the fence...however perhaps if Martina was blessed with the brute-strength Torso's the Williams have and "Natural speed"...I would say Melanie....but then again Richard had to teach them to control their power. For shot selection definately Melanie...for Psych...definately Richard.

How in the hell is this natural? Venus and Serena just woke up one morning and decided to play tennis? All the other athletes on the tour in other sports have to spend hours at the gym, working on their crafts, and mentally preparing. Venus and Serena are much more gifted than I thought if this came about for them "naturally".

Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:51 AM
Hmmm ok...I guess that doesn't read too well...yes of course they have to work out and work out hard I would imagine....they still would have been tall and athletic even if not playing tennis...as for natural speed....how many Swiss runners do you see in an Olympic Final...I'm not being racist...but African-American runners have dominated sprinting for a long time.

Dont get me wrong...I think all 3 players are awesome to watch...and I think if either coach took on a rookie they could help them succeed.....sorry wasn't trying to be nasty :-)

Keep Smiling


Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:18 AM
Both M & R trained their daughters very early to be the champions they are today.

Melanie had the advantage being that she was a tennis pro herself so she really knew the ins and outs of the game.

Richard was inspired by a match he saw on TV and the money the winner made from it.

I pick Richard being the better coach and it's not because his daughters are my favourites. I admire the determination from a tennis outsider who bucked the system and succeeded. Add to that this his daughters are well adjusted and carry themselves well. His accomplishements as a coach, motivator and father speaks volumes.

May 4th, 2003, 03:32 AM
we'll just have to see
how Melanie is doing with Myriam,
anyone knows who Richard is coaching right now?

May 4th, 2003, 08:52 AM
i think melanie is the better coach
as martina said herself, she was a "difficult" student
and teaching finesse isnt quite the same as teaching power to pple who are naturally strong

on top of that, melanie truly loves the game of tennis
richard probably doesnt
as he says, he decided to teach venus and serena tennis simply because he saw the prize money was high

May 4th, 2003, 12:49 PM
i don't know who is the better coach to be honest, but i think the arguments in this thread have been a bit weak

1) richard as 2 champions and melanie 1, but melanie only had/coached one daughter, so how is that particularly relevant? who is to say that if melanie had another daughter she would not have eclipsed martina's record?

2) you have to take the difference in the players into account. melanie obviously used old schools methods about ball movement, touch, etc whereas richard obviously saw that the future was with power and taking advantage of the exceptional athletic ability that african americans are either born with and/or can develop. i think they both did a pretty amazing job with each of their choosen methods of training.

3) yes it is true that martina is no longer dominate, or even playing, but who is to say that in a few years the williams sister won't have retired and gone off to pursue their passions of interior decorating/ acting/modelling? i mean serena ranks tennis as her third priority apparently (i don't know if that was twisted by the media of something). also i don't think melanie could do much about martina getting an ankle injury which means she can't play tennis at the highest level. i don't think many people would hold it against richard as a coach if venus had to retire due to chronic tendonitis.

basically i don't think we can really make this decision until either venus or serena have dominated the tour for a few more years or until their careers are over. even then i don't really think you can assess who is the best coach without running into so many difficulties, which in the end just seems to make the whole task not worth it. i don't even think that they are necessarily the best coaches ever either. i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of coaches could do just as good a job if they had kids which they could use to create amazing tennis players. if you put as much time and effort into something like they obviously had, i don't think reaching their level is inconceivable. don't get me wrong though, i am not saying that they aren't great coaches

May 4th, 2003, 01:04 PM
I think it's the two of them who are great, afterall it was their daughters out there against each other....

I say you can't compare oranges and apples. This comparison is more like comparing two singers. One who was raised in the church (whitney) and one given technical training (mariah). It doesn't say which teacher was better. One started early and one started late and both reached their primes at different times. It doesn't say one singer is better than the other.

Same goes for Richard and Melanie.

May 4th, 2003, 02:10 PM
Richard, since he didnt plat tennis himself and had no background, and coached his two daughters with minimal funds and equipment. Melanie coached only one champion and didnt do a good job later in her career when obviously there were things Martina needed to work on, like her weak serve, and Melanie didnt do anything to improve that.

May 4th, 2003, 02:51 PM
I think Melanie is better for learning the shots and how to use them, and Richard is better in the psyocological aspects/motivation, and so.

Bright Red
May 4th, 2003, 03:35 PM
But Melanie has the better looking Afro hairstyle. :)

ROTFLMAO! I don't know how I missed this.

This is a good question. IMO, a coach can take credit only so far, and then the talent, skill, and motivation of the player takes over. Taking a player to the top of the tennis world is where I'd give most credit to a coach, and so in this regard both Richard and Melanie have done it. I say they're equal.

One could also add that coaching is vital to sustaining a top-ranking. If you were to allow some credit to coaches for that, then I could obviously see Richard as having an edge (but imo, it's mainly the Williams Sisters determination at this point that keeps them on top)

May 4th, 2003, 03:47 PM
I think that the difference is that Melanie coached Martina by herself, where as Richard had significant help from Rick Macy (sp?) and several other people. In fact, what about their mother? Doesn't Oracene get some of the credit, too, or do you not consider her to be a real coach?

In fact, on the occasions I have personally seen a Venus or Serena practice session, sometimes he is coaching and sometimes, other people are on court doing that and Richard is walking around, talking into a cell phone.

This is not to say that he does not deserve some credit. He does. But I don't think he is the whole story of the success of the Williams sisters, while Melanie did it on her own. That in my view is the big difference, although it obviously is harder in some ways to coach two players than one. But that may also be balanced by the fact that there was always a player of equal skill around for them to play, too, so there were some advantages.

Of course, the players themselves had a little to do with their success, too.

But you can also look at people like Stefano Capriati. His daughter won three grand slam singles titles and briefly made it to number one.

Or Monica's father, who coached her to nine grand slams.

Peter Graf? Well, it's hard to say how much he was or was not responsible for.

May 4th, 2003, 03:52 PM
Richard cause one of his daughter won all Grand Slams, and Melanie's daughter will die without one :kiss:

May 4th, 2003, 04:39 PM
Myriam is as big as a fuckin' house now. Let's see if taskmaster Melanie can get that fixed. Also, Melanie let Marti play way too much, which @ least contributed to the injuries and reflects on her judgement.

May 4th, 2003, 05:23 PM
Long live King Richard!