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"Topaz"
Dec 21st, 2002, 05:19 PM
Hingis's problem started with her game being debunked and overcome. Then came her mental journey step by step: 1st - disbelief: "how come I can't win as easily as before?"
2nd - anger: "I should be winning." Re Steffi at Wimbledon 99.
3rd - reality setting in: "ok, let's make some changes. They want to send me deep balls with power, I'll send them deep balls with power (!) and force them to return the midcourt balls I like ... Hey, it works, I beat both Williams sisters." Re OZ 01. But Jennifer was in the wing and just affirmed herself.
4th - search for solution. Additional attempt to add more power led to the ailments created by power, the kind of ailments she hardly had before, when "finesse" was her main game.
She's still at this 4th milestone in her mental journey. The next one (the 5th) will be the last blow.
5th - acceptance of second class tennis. I don't think she's there yet.There is one major problem for which she has no solution: Serena. She's never been comfortable with Serena's serve and pace (well, nobody has). When Serena's all court game came to its own, Hingis became responseless. At US Open 01, we could see fear on her face; that led to a 100% first serve stats for Serena in the second set. I believe that was the coup de grace to her failing self-confidence. To regain her first rate confidence, she has to resolve Serena. Very daunting task, as everybody else is gunning for Serena and is getting better in the process.

Good luck anyway, Hingis! If confidence can't be re-conquered, try that other quality of yours: perseverance.

"Topaz"
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:33 PM
If Hingis reaches the 5th mental milestone indicated above, retirement won't be too far. I don't see her carrying on a la Arantxa, no offense to the latter.

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:04 PM
Elisabeth Kubler Ross is not entirely apropos

"Topaz"
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:41 PM
You lost me, Volcana. Who is Elisabeth Kubler Ross?

leslie
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:54 PM
I believe Martina will not play tennis again. I have a feeling she will retire next year. That's just my opinion and observation from her recent matches.

HingisLove
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:04 PM
You Wish &%#&%#

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:11 PM
Always seems to be Williams fans starting these "Marti is finished" threads (yes we know they don't actually say that but it is a damn thin veil you put over it)

Why don't you say what you really think? Cowards.

Ma. Estefania
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:12 PM
I agree Hingislove!

nuriboy
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:12 PM
I don´t think Hingis will retire, but I think she blew her last chance to win another GS by losing to Capriati. Right now the sisters( Serena specially) are too good for her when they are on, but she is still capable of playing some good tennis. On talent alone Hingis belongs in top 10 so no retirement needed.

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:15 PM
What I previosuly said was slightly confrontational, but what I mean is that most people who all of a sudden seem to have an analytical view on Martina's downfall seem to be those who so eagerly wished it to happen.

"Topaz"
Dec 21st, 2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by JoeyWinson
Always seems to be Williams fans starting these "Marti is finished" threads (yes we know they don't actually say that but it is a damn thin veil you put over it)
If you can't read a thread and take it for what it says, you're psychotic. I sincerely wish you seek treatment.

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 21st, 2002, 10:01 PM
Oh come off it, absolute rubbish.

DEETHELICK
Dec 21st, 2002, 11:18 PM
Mmmm, as we saw at Oz, when Martina is on, she can truly handle the power players. In fact some of her shots were hard hit too.

I'm not a fan, but I have a gut feeling that she is gona come back better. Her serve may never be a weapon, but in early 2002, it was doing quite well for her.

I think self-belief and fitness are key. The shots are still there, as well as the anticipation. Its just being a bit more fleet-footed and going for the right shot at the right time.

Genuinely, Martina can hang with Serena only when she is 100%. Who knows, maybe the Swiss Miss could be Serena's nemesis next year ;)

treufreund
Dec 21st, 2002, 11:29 PM
Joey you are right. EVERYONE knows exactly what is behind all of the Marti (or Anna or Jenn) threads. These people are not disguising their pleasure at Martina's struggles in the least.

Ma. Estefania
Dec 21st, 2002, 11:36 PM
I agree DEETHELICK.

nuriboy
Dec 21st, 2002, 11:40 PM
I agree with Deetle, but only partialy. When Hingis is 100 % she can hang with everybody, but the Serena of now will be very difficult to beat for Hingis. Unforced errors down and the power is up......can´t beat that.

Irish
Dec 22nd, 2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by treufreund
Joey you are right. EVERYONE knows exactly what is behind all of the Marti (or Anna or Jenn) threads. These people are not disguising their pleasure at Martina's struggles in the least.
I agree with you and Joey. It is very OBVIOUS.

And Ross is a writer.

Volcana
Dec 22nd, 2002, 12:58 AM
TennisPower - Dr. Elisabeth Kubler Ross wrote a somewhat famous book called 'On Death and Dying'. In it, if memory serves, she laid out the five stages people go through when dying.

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

If you treat 'search for solution' with its resultant injuries as 'depression', it lines right up.

Denial = disbelief

Anger = anger:

Bargaining = reality setting in: "ok, let's make some changes."

Depression = search for solution/ailments

Acceptance = acceptance


Except of course, that Martina isn't dying. Hence 'not entirely apropos'

"Topaz"
Dec 22nd, 2002, 01:27 AM
No, Volcana, I didn't read that book by Dr Ross. We're certainly not talking about death here, but the decline and possible rebound or end of a terrific tennis career.

However, I'm amazed at the match-up of the steps. Kind of chilling, isn't it?

At this time of the year, our thoughts should be about joy, celebration of life, redemption and energizing for the future. As I stated in many other threads (maybe unknown to some Hingis fans here) I surely hope for a total recovery of Martina. I missed the kind of challenge she puts my faves through, and the level of tennis that ensues.

Kiswana
Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:28 AM
Hingis's dilemma is not that complex.

The game is passing her by. That really sums it up.

She's still smart enough to lure the majority of blasters into loads of UE's and win matches.

However it's the elite group of blasters that she needs to beat for the majors and she's no longer able to keep pace with them.

That's her dilemma.

PhoenixStorm
Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:05 AM
Yes you are talking about death. The death of her career in tennis. I mean is it that far fetched? Didn't even she say that she would retire if she was no longer capable of winning slams?

However having said that I do not want her to retire because I love it when my favs beat her. Serena has already taken the lead in their head to head and Venus is surely set to do the same. Yippe!

"Topaz"
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:03 AM
Come to think of it, it seems that any demise goes through those same five stages. Let's revisit Trent Lott's demise under this light.

1- Denial: "I didn't say anything of a racial content, I was only complimenting and cheering a 100-year old man".

2- Anger: "I don't understand what the fuss is all about. I've had a whole career of helping black people in Mississippi, the party and even my own office."

3- Bargaining: "Now I would vote for Martin Luther King's holiday ... I stand for affirmative action in all its forms".

4- Depression: "Huh!" That was after calling several Senators and the White House a multiple of times.

5- Acceptance: "I've decided not to renew my leadership of the Senate for the next Congressional Session ... Reporters, you can go home now."

:)

persond
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:58 AM
:) When Hingis was "riding high" and "winning everything in sight", the Hingis fans were so full of it and constantly "rubbing" everyone elses noses in her success!!! And, oh how they would "laud" it over the other players fans...now the shoe is on the "other foot", and they can't take it!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hingis' fans should have realized it back in '97 - '01, that noone stays on "top" forever. They are reaping exactly what they sowed!!! That'll "learn ya" to be kind to people on your way up, because they are the same people you meet on your way down!!!:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

Dawn Marie
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:22 AM
I'll be honest I want Hingis to come back because she is talented and I like to watch her lose. It's kinda weird, but I respect her game and her tennis capabilities but she is like the villian that I love to hate. Kinda like James Stenbeck on "As the World Turns". I want Venus to get the advantage on the head2head, and I am dying for a Vee and Hingis match.

Persond, I remember those days. lol:)

Now after all is stated and done, I would like to really see Hingis come back. Without her is like watching "Touched by an Angel" without Satan. I need a villian in sports, as it keeps me excited then without one.

I love the Benglas and want them to beat the Browns, I want OSU to beat Miami. Well same here, I want V@S to beat Hingis.

The exact thing that alot of people wanted/want for Venus and Serena before and AFTER they won many slams and titles.


Hurry back Martina, the WTA tour needs you.

anton
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:29 AM
Has Hingis done a remake of Nelly's Dilemna??!!

Dawn Marie
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:35 AM
hi anton:)

anton
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:37 AM
was up DM@@!!

I hate to point this out but hingis made some nasty statements about steffi being "physically spent"so as they when you point a finger 3 fingers point back at you.

HingisLove
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:55 AM
There is one ting that is annoying me and it's not this constant bashing from the fans of those two petit players that play tennis so gracefully, it's the wish thinking about Hingis retirement at the age of 21................ridiculous
However all you haters I won’t try to damp on you current susses heck I might even kiss you on your fall DOWN, but trust me you I WON'T catch you.
And all you posers,( oh yes I want her back on the tour) beware of what you wishing for it can come true, believe me when she's back and she’s doing more that just lose against those ever so charming sisters you will be sorry……



Come back Martina, the tour need someone who's talented enough to hit a decent volley :kiss: :kiss:

anton
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:09 AM
i hope she is practicing a decent serve

Dawn Marie
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:09 AM
HingisIlove I think that is the exact same thing Persond just stated. Nobody is kissing you right now. get it? As for retiring, I don't want her to retire, as she is part of the WTA. She is needed on the WTA tour.

She is needed to bring back the Venus and Hingis rivalry. At least in my opinion. It's like Everet without Martina Navrilitolva.

A "hater" is someone who likes Elena Demetieva's game, Jennifer game, Mary Pierce's game,Lindsay's game but yet turns around and states they dislike V@S because they are all power and no finesse. Oh and they play boring tennis. Oh and they make alot of errors. Oh and they only play "one way", but yet have no problem, with mary, lindsay,jennifer,seles,elena.

HingisLove
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:48 AM
All I can say is that's it's never right to kick some one when he or she is down. All of us are responsible for your ones action and it's just silly to refer to what other idiots have said.

And I don't dislike them, I have accutaully always cheered for the sisters whenever Martina or Anna is not playing.
You can't even start comparing the sister’s game to Elena and Mary they are in a different league, you could know that.

Please, I get plenty of love just not from those who like to see other people suffer, but you know what I rather do without there kisses
And I too would like to see Martina work on her serve, so there!

anton
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:55 AM
"kick some one when he or she is down"

what do you think Martina and her mom did to Steffi??

Melanie does not even speak English hardly and she felt the need to speak out againt Steffi :rolleyes:

That's what made the 1999 French Open final so sweet. To her credit after being booed off the court Hingis did charm the French crowd with a loser's speech in French.

HingisLove
Dec 22nd, 2002, 10:25 AM
Yes it was strong of Martina being 18 and booed to go out and make her speech.

So the real angel is Richard, who never said anything rude or offensive to anyone!

Aloysius
Dec 22nd, 2002, 01:11 PM
There are ways to beat power players and Martina knows how to do that. However, putting those game plans in play is tough when she cannot play without pain in her feet. I'm a small person and face the bigger, harder hitters all the time, but I'm winning because I know the secret to beating them. If Lleyton Hewitt can beat the bigger and harder-hitting players on the men's tour, there's absolutely no reason why Martina can't do the same on the women's tour when she's fully fit again.

Ryan
Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:07 PM
First of all TennisPower isn't insulting Martina. He HAS posted in many other threads wishing Martina well, and wanting her to coem back. Some of the others though....


Martina needs to spend her extended break re-tooling and re-shaping her game. Harder serve, harder strokes, running faster, getting to net.

Come back playing your best ever Marti. :D

"Topaz"
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Ryan15
Come back playing your best ever Marti.All tennis lovers should echo that.

anton
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:00 PM
Richard is not an angel but I dont think he ever made any statements against Steffi as this is his favortie player.

TSequoia01
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:26 PM
If physically possible, Marti will be back. Tennis is her life and being a tennis player is what she is. She is going to retool and come back new and improved. Smart move really. Let the tour miss you for awhile, improve your game, and make a triumphant return. Then, write a book. :cool:

King Lindsay
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:55 PM
No, richard's never said anything about Steffi, just everybody else.

Martina's been undone by her ebbing confidence, her rivals' better play (which caused her ebbing confidence), and injury (whih has added the last anchor to her career). You can all argue til you die about which of those three things was most responsible, but it doesn't really matter because we're not in position to say.

Anything can happen in sports. If Jennifer Capriati can reach #1 nine years after supposedly being washed-up, so can Martina Hingis. But I suggest that everyone realize that Martina's going to come bak when and if she's ready, and that there's no timeline on her return. which means we don't need another goddamn thread every fucking day about When will Hingis Be Back? What Happened to Hingis? Oh No, Hingis is out of Australia. JUST SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY. WAIT UNTIL THERE IS ACTUAL NEWS.

jenny161185
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:54 PM
does anyone remember at the start of this year when martina came back from injury she beat seles twice and Clijsters(both strong power hitters that have beaten the williams+davenport this year) and then played quiteb a close match with Venus in Hamburg i think 6-3 7-5 this was also the week she was on pain killers and didnt know what was wron with her foot cos they hurt so bad. then she had the operation. NEVER count martina hingis out - she belongs in the top 5

nuriboy
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:01 PM
I agree with Jenny. Don´t count out Martina yet.....she will be back. She´s too good to retire and she knows it.

Zenith
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:10 PM
I want her to come back. I miss that chucky smile and the intensity of the rivalry between her and the Williamses (Venus especially).
Those vintage Hingis were real crack ups ("should I serve first or you want me to break you", that's a real gem.

Volcana
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:21 PM
TennisPower - Trent Lott - ROTFLMAO!!!

Volcana
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:27 PM
No, richard's never said anything about Steffi, just everybody else.

King Lindsay - Richard DOES talk quite a lot, but I missed his comments about Kim Clijsters, Justine Henin, Chanda Rubin, Maggie Maleeva, Daniela Hantuchova, Patty Schnyder and Anastasia Msykina. I'd LOVE to see what he had to say about those players especially. Could you post a few quotes?

I do recall him saying something complimentary about Monica, buit maybe that was my imagination.

King Lindsay
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:43 PM
Volcana, obviously I didn't mean that remark completely literally.

"Topaz"
Dec 28th, 2003, 04:43 PM
Bump! Blast from the past!

Look what I found in the log, posted just about one year ago!

I guess Hingis did reach the 5th milestone, acceptance. Too bad, just too bad! I'm still dreaming of a turn around for her.

servenrichie
Dec 28th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Bump! Blast from the past!

Look what I found in the log, posted just about one year ago!

I guess Hingis did reach the 5th milestone, acceptance. Too bad, just too bad! I'm still dreaming of a turn around for her.

Well you were supposed to be a hater for reading the writing on the wall :)

Martian KC
Dec 28th, 2003, 07:28 PM
:) When Hingis was "riding high" and "winning everything in sight", the Hingis fans were so full of it and constantly "rubbing" everyone elses noses in her success!!! And, oh how they would "laud" it over the other players fans...now the shoe is on the "other foot", and they can't take it!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hingis' fans should have realized it back in '97 - '01, that noone stays on "top" forever. They are reaping exactly what they sowed!!! That'll "learn ya" to be kind to people on your way up, because they are the same people you meet on your way down!!!:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

You're so ignorant. We never did that at the sanexmessageboard. It was only towards assholes like you that spent days obsessing over Martina.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 28th, 2003, 07:33 PM
Before checking the dates on the posts, I was going to make a comment in disbelief that you people STILL haven't accepted that she's retired already, and that it's time to move on. I'm sure that she's quite content with her millions of dollars are new career, while you twits are still sitting here wondering about things that she doesn't care about anymore.

Then I saw the date on the posts... and decided that this comment was still relevant ;)

rated_next
Dec 28th, 2003, 07:47 PM
:haha:

Smash
Dec 28th, 2003, 07:55 PM
This topic is getting so tiresome. Martina said she would come back if she were physically able to do so, which isn't the case. She has had feet trouble for yrs plus 2 ankle surgeries in the span of 10 months. She's a smart girl. She knows she can't physically compete with most of the pro tennis players anymore and she isn't willing to become a has been player. She knew when to retire. Simple as that and she corrects any reporter who dismisses her injuries as irrelevent in her decision to retire. Bad ankles/feet=retirement. She says it would take a miracle to come back, so if you want to see her back competing again- start praying.