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View Full Version : Who is most responsible for Martina Hingis' mental scars.


brickhousesupporter
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:22 PM
Order the following players by who are most responsible for Hingis' mental scars.
Venus
Serena
Jennifer
Lyndsay
Steffie
Jelena

Each one of these players have dealt a blow to hingis confidence. If I were to order them they would be
Steffie
Jennifer
Serena
Venus
Lyndsay
Jelena

tennisIlove09
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:26 PM
The only two I would have is Steffi Graf and Venus Williams.

Steffi for the 99 Roland Garros
Venus for 00 US Open

brickhousesupporter
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:28 PM
so dallas,
Jennifer's australian open win had no effect on Hingis

Jordan.
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:28 PM
Jennifer, Steffi

tennisIlove09
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by brickhousesupporter
so dallas,
Jennifer's australian open win had no effect on Hingis

I'm not saying that. But the mental scars were there BEFORE Jennifer beat her. They are what caused her to lose the Aussie Open. She was scared way before Jen beat her.

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:40 PM
It's threads like these which makes me hope even more that Marti comes back.

brickhousesupporter
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by JoeyWinson
It's threads like these which makes me hope even more that Marti comes back.

What is wrong with this thread?

Venus Forever
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:44 PM
1. Steffi
2. Jennifer
3. Serena
4. Venus
5. Lindsay
6. Jelena

tyk101
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:47 PM
Steffi and then Jenni

if 1999 rg DIDN'T happen then she wouldn't have had problems closing out the next two AO gs

tennisIlove09
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by brickhousesupporter
What is wrong with this thread?

I'd like to know to. :confused:

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:53 PM
did i actually say there was anything wrong with it?!

To be perfectly honest I don't think Steffi Graf is responsible for anything to do with "mental scars". What happened that day was down to Marti not keeping good temperament, and of course another trademark display of ineptitude from the now thankfully retired Anne Laissere-Ullrich.

Venus and Serena have contributed to Marti's current downfall, but to be honest, if Marti's gonna come back (which I really hope she will), she's going to have to change her game. Not entirely but steps will have to be made, and she's going to have to change the way she thinks about tennis. She needs some of that cockiness back which made people either a fan (as she did with me) or someone to dislike... one or the other.. People at the top eitehr have admirers or dislikers, you rarely get people who have an "mm, they're alright" attitude to those who are successful.

Anyway, I don't think we should be signalling the end of her career just yet.

Havok
Dec 21st, 2002, 12:04 AM
why is jelena always last on the list??????i woul put her the 3rd because she kicked her ass in the 1st round of Wimbledon. hello. and she's always been challenging her ever since!

tennisIlove09
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Naldo
why is jelena always last on the list??????i woul put her the 3rd because she kicked her ass in the 1st round of Wimbledon. hello. and she's always been challenging her ever since!

Really? Odd, the H2H says different

1999-01-18 Australian Open Hardcourt R32 Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-1 6-2
1999-06-21 Wimbledon Grass R128 Jelena Dokic (YUG) 6-2 6-0
2000-10-09 Zurich Indoor Hardcourt R16 Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-3 6-2
2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt R16 Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-4 6-0
2002-08-12 Montreal Hardcourt QF Jelena Dokic (YUG) 6-4 6-3

-Sonic-
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:16 AM
Anne Laserre Ulrich helped too.

fhkung
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:20 AM
that's gotta be Steffi......
i've hated her ever since,

2nd has gotta be Jen,
she was that close.....:(
being beaten by the same player
at same time, same place,
that's gotta be some blow...

Williams to a lesser degree,
coz she had beaten Venus many times,
and she still managed to beat Serena
3 straight times after US Open,
it's more of a realization of new tennis styles
rather than mental scar,

Dokic got lucky back then,
she just found a way to beat Hingis,
like Hantuchova did in Indian Wells.....
but she has been pathetic against her since then,

tennisIlove09
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by fhkung
that's gotta be Steffi......
i've hated her ever since,

2nd has gotta be Jen,
she was that close.....:(
being beaten by the same player
at same time, same place,
that's gotta be some blow...

Williams to a lesser degree,
coz she had beaten Venus many times,
and she still managed to beat Serena
3 straight times after US Open,
it's more of a realization of new tennis styles
rather than mental scar,

Dokic got lucky back then,
she just found a way to beat Hingis,
like Hantuchova did in Indian Wells.....
but she has been pathetic against her since then,

I would agree, but I think Venus did a lot more damage then Jen.

Here's my reasoning.

I think the 2000 US Open is pretty obvious. Hingis 2 points away, the smash for match points, losing last 4 games.

But the 2001 Aussie did a lot of damage too, I think.

Hingis just finished an epic comeback against Serena in the quarters, to face Venus. She had lost to Venus in the last 2 Slams in 3 tight sets.

But she walks over Venus 61 61. Barely breaking a sweat. Then Jen-Cap beats Davenport.

Now, Hingis must have thought "It's mine". She just beat Venus 61 61, and she had never lost to Jen before [at the time].

Then, she was destoryed by Jennifer, perhaps because she was TOO confident, having destoryed Venus.

Sam L
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:38 AM
Sorry am I the only one who sees it differently?

It's NONE of them.

The one who's responsible is MELANIE MOLITOR. She's the mother, she should've prepared Hingis for RG99. She should've brought Martina back to earth in the months leading to RG99. She, as a tennis player herself before, should've known her daughter well to know that something like that could happen.

My guess is that she probably did try to do something about AFTER RG99 which resulted in their break up for Wimbledon that year etc... Who knows, but I put the blame back on the mother. Martina was 18 year old at that time. Melanie should've taught her more than just how to hit a tennis ball.

Had she prepared her mentally, RG99 wouldn't have happend, Martina would've won in straight sets.

tennisIlove09
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Sam L
Sorry am I the only one who sees it differently?

It's NONE of them.

The one who's responsible is MELANIE MOLITOR. She's the mother, she should've prepared Hingis for RG99. She should've brought Martina back to earth in the months leading to RG99. She, as a tennis player herself before, should've known her daughter well to know that something like that could happen.

My guess is that she probably did try to do something about AFTER RG99 which resulted in their break up for Wimbledon that year etc... Who knows, but I put the blame back on the mother. Martina was 18 year old at that time. Melanie should've taught her more than just how to hit a tennis ball.

Had she prepared her mentally, RG99 wouldn't have happend, Martina would've won in straight sets.

See, I have trouble believing that. How could Melaine help Hingis BEFORE Roalnd Garros 99? Up to that point, Hingis had won 3 straight Aussies!

And she ALMOST won in straight sets, she was up 64 54, serving.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:52 AM
interesting question dude

harloo
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:08 AM
Well I feel that Steffi was a small part of it, but not the sole reason for Martina's downfall. The RG99 final was in Martina's hand to win, but she wen't out to lunch and crossed the net and the crowd went crazy because they loved Steffi. In that match Martina caused her own mental scars.

Then when the Williams came along it was more pressure to be the tennis queen. I think what happened is that Martina really didn't have to deal with the pressure of tough competition when she was use to winning everything. However when the tide started changing then the pressure was on. I think for the most part, when Venus and Serena were in their early developments of becoming great players, Martina was already at that point with her style of play. She would usually beat them early on, however as the sisters got better she just stayed at the same level somewhat. If it wasn't broke then don't fix it. She underestimated the change in the game. In tenis it is hard to change habits, and while many say she should change up her game it's tough to do so when you have been playing the same way all your life.

Now when Jen was beating her Martina had already declined somewhat so it wasn't a suprise.

IMO, all Martina needs is some confidence and she should bring in another coach to assist mom. I do think she should stay with melanie, but maybe she could go to the Boletteri Academy to work on some weak parts of her game. If not she will be left behind, because all these girls today are coming out faster, stronger and aggressive.

Good luck Martina!:)

Venus_Serena
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:12 AM
simply question .....

herself ! She had her chance. Too late Hingis. It can sounds little bit dramatic. I have a lot of respect for Martina but she has now so many problems to closing out matches.

Here is some matches that Martina Hingis should have won that would probably make the difference in her career. If she could have won those matches, I think she would probably be #1 in the world today.

French Open 99
Wimblebon 2000
Us Open 2000
Australian Open 2001 and 2002

Cybelle Darkholme
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:19 AM
Venus is Martina's arch nemeisis! They will always be arch rivals and Marty can't stand losing to venus or her sister.

Rollo
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:24 AM
My thinking is almost the same as Sam's-with a twist.


Martina did this to herself.

Unraveling at RG in 1999 was entirely her own doing. She had the match in hand when she had a hissy fit. And she's never had the same aura as #1 since.


All the advice in the world from her Mom does no good if Martina herself doesn't heed it. If she
1. ever returns to her old form of driving through the ball on the forehand and

2. going for more winners down the line off the backhand and-

3. putting at least 10 mph on her serve

If she does these things she can win slams again. 50% of her problems are mental or motivational IMO. She's talked about how she her knows her serve is weak, but there's been no action. It's been like Monica Seles talking endlessly for 7 years now about how she has to get fit. It's not happened.

If Hingis gives it 100% and still comes up short at least she knows she gave it a shot. Iwish her the best. No one has a game quite as entertaining as Martina:)

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:47 AM
Martina doesn't HAVE 'mental scars'.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Martina hasn't demostrated any mental fragility. She's being out-played. Her game has weaknesses. It took the tour four years to find them. But now the whole tour knows to pin her to the baseline with deep groundstrokes and grind her down. The only issue is if the opposing player can execute the strategy.

brickhousesupporter
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:01 AM
Volcana what do you call the inability to close out 4 matchpoints at the Aus Open? That had nothing to do with her game it had to do with her not being able to focus and close out the match

DD
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:06 AM
i really hope Hingis comes back
venus has something to set right

Rollo
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:51 AM
Martina doesn't HAVE 'mental scars'.

Please tell me you are joking Volcana.

Brickhouse gave you exhibit A. In the Aussie final last year she was passive on EVERY match point.

And how would you explain her 1999 Wimbledon defeat? If that's not a mental meltdown I don't know what is.

She's gone 4 YEARS without a slam as of Oz 2003. Of course she had mental scars.

Sam L
Dec 21st, 2002, 05:07 AM
I agree with your of course Rollo :)

A person of 18 years old should start to take more responsibility in his/her own actions. Well it starts younger, but by 18 one should know better :) But I still think that Melanie should've taught her a lot more about crowds, media what can happen.

Rollo
Dec 21st, 2002, 05:29 AM
You've got a point Sam:) It's hard sometimes to think of Hingis as being so young.

Robbie.
Dec 21st, 2002, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
Martina doesn't HAVE 'mental scars'.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Martina hasn't demostrated any mental fragility. She's being out-played. Her game has weaknesses. It took the tour four years to find them. But now the whole tour knows to pin her to the baseline with deep groundstrokes and grind her down. The only issue is if the opposing player can execute the strategy.

The tripe that that some William's fans come up with, honestly :rolleyes: This was exactly the kind of crap that Dawn was peddling to us in another thread.:rolleyes: You would have us believe that Martina's game is nothing special at all and in such decline that she can no longer match it with the elite - Dawn was even telling us that prior to her injury Marti was on her way out of the top ten :rolleyes:. This notion is ridiculous. The fact remains that the only five players who have demonstrated any ability to beat her on a consistent basis - when she can actually move to execute her shots - are the two Williams sisters, Davenport, Mauresmo and Capriati. Even with her obvious mental problems - and only 5 months of real competition on tour this year - Martina is still able to nail down a year end ranking inside the top 10. Yes, most players now know tactically how to beat Martina, but most players know how to beat just about every player in the top 10 tactically - the point is that executing these strategies against the top 10 is difficult and this is still the case with Martina - despite the failure of her comeback when she was obviously far from fitness or form. No signs of mental fragility? Others have already commented on this absurdity so I'll just say that if she was not mentally fragile at the very least she would currently be the 1999 French Open Champion and the 2002 Australian Open Champion.

Deira
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:15 AM
Venus and Serena Williams gashed Martina the most. They made her realize her game was passe'. Lindsay had the power, but the power and the movement of the Williams sisters is what did Marti in. It took her a while for her to accept it, but I think she has now come to face it. FACE IT GIRL, IT'S OVER.

harloo
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:19 AM
Well if she continues in this path, she won't be able to compete with the elite anymore. Factor that in with injuries, and the change in the game and Martina will be lucky to be in the top ten. IMO, their are too many girls who are getting better. The other players on the tour are starting to challenge the old guard. A win for Davey, Venus, Serena, Jen, Kim, Juju are not guareenteed anymore. I feel that one day the WTA might become like the ATP with all type of different players winning slams. Right now Venus and Serena are dominant, but they even said that tennis won't last forever and I'm glad they are planning for the future.

Martina came along at a time where her style of play was the highest standard of play. She was the best strategist in the game, like a computer player that never loses. However, now the weaknesses have been exposed, and Martina turned her head when challenged. Today, it's about power, strategy, and hitting winners. If she can adjust to this type of play somewhat I think she will win some slams. However, I just don't feel that's her game.

Dawn Marie
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:31 AM
MARTINA HINGIS IS THE ONE RESPONSILBE!


1.She lost that match at Roland Garros from her own actions.

2.She refused to work on her weak areas about her game and just took her #1 ranking for granted, for like two years.

3.She refused to work on her MAJOR WEAK area which was her serve. Just cause she was #1 didn't mean she was the better player. She fell into the hype about being #1.

4.Played for a ranking postion and yet not getting her game in better order.

5. "Fate" She has remained slamless for 5 years and that is where it all started.

Lindsay
Steffie
Serena
Venus
Jennifer

Bascially those who beat her in the slams imho.

Robbie.
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:42 AM
Harloo you talk as if Martina's hasn't been at the top for years. Only 8 months ago, before her injury, she was a top 5 player in the world, only 14 months ago she was #1 in the world. I refuse to believe the claim that in the 3 months she spent off tour this year that the game has been revolutionised to the extent that she cannot be a competitve force in the game anymore. It is just too far fetched. Especially when the top 10 still looks almost identical to the way it did a year ago - with the one big exception in Lindsay and we all know her story. It is important to note that we have not seen any threads like this questioning Lindsay's ability to comeback although she has a grandslam drought of her own going on to three years and has not won a tournament in a year or been in a GS Final since 2000. In Martina, we are talking about a player who should have won the Australian Open this year if she had not choked. Her current game is a top ten game at the very least, probably top 5. If she can attain her standard of early 2002, which is a real question I concede, I cannot understand why the doomsayers are so adamant she will not be a top 10 player - she never showed any indication that she was not top 5 level at that stage.

Dawn Marie
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:53 AM
She did show an indication have you not been following her tennis? Also this will sound so trivial to you, but who did she beat to get to the final at OZ? Those players will not be the same anymore, alot of young hard hitting girls are coming up and that is trouble for Martina. The likes of Martina facing Amanda Coetzer in quarters are gone. Hell Venus and Serena will have some competion soon. The tour is getting faster and quite frankly martina is getting older.

I do though feel Hingis can stay in top ten becasue she is quite crafty, but only if she changes some things up. Really, even Hingis fans realize that her game needs an OVERHAUL. You know add that aggressive stuff back and get those balls deeper in the court and most assured work on that serve. Personally I think Hingis agrees with me and is right now REVAMPING her game. She has a plan, she has to have one.

Robbie.
Dec 21st, 2002, 07:15 AM
Yes I have been following her tennis very closely :) And any of the "indications" you were receiving were obviously not translating into results considering that she started the year with 2 titles, 2 finals, 2 semis and 1 quarterfinal in 7 tournaments all tier II or above - a top 5 record by anyone's standards (maybe not yours).

Her draw at the Australian Open is irrelevant, I mean she beat Monica who had beaten Venus, and she had Jenn dead to rights in the final.

The likes of Martina facing Amanda Coetzer in quarters are gone

Again you go back to this concept that the tour has evolved at some huge rate over the past 10 months. I have seen no indications of the sort. Certainly FACTS indicate quite the opposite. Look at last years year end top 10, better yet top 20 and you will be suprised at the similarities. Of those new entrants to the top 20 only Hantuchova and Stevenson (who martina beat even in her ill-fated comeback), and to a lesser extent Myskina could be considered of your supposed "new breed". Rubin (although lethal off the forehand), Schnyder, Smashnova (there's a huge hitter :) ) and Dechy are all relative veterans who get by more on court craft than the power and pace you talk about. And Martina did only play Amanda Coetzer in that Round of 16 match THIS year. And Amanda, after being injured for much of a usually profitable clay season, fell a whole TWO places to 21st in the world this year. She really is antiquated :rolleyes:

the facts really do prove contrary to the theory that the game has progressed at such a level during Martina's absence that it has reached a point where she cannot hold down a top ten place anymore.

irma
Dec 21st, 2002, 07:40 AM
her mother!

BasicTennis
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:18 AM
LOL@irma...yeah she needs a new coach only to improve her service game; this is exactly what is lacking in her game.:D

Experimentee
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:08 PM
The main one is herself. It was not those other players fault that she lost it at the french, or that she choked in other Grand Slams. I'd say she has no one to blame but herself.

Volcana
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:31 PM
This whole 'mental scars' thing may be a great comfort to those who think Martina has somehow lost the mental or emotional ability to play the way she did in 1997. But she hasn't. Opponents play her differently, and more to the point, she doesn't intimidate them. The rest of this is so much mental masturbation. Fortunately, Gold Coast start in nine days, and we'll have something sensible to discuss.

Aloysius
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
MARTINA HINGIS IS THE ONE RESPONSILBE!

Agree with you there.

1.She lost that match at Roland Garros from her own actions.

Agree with you there.

2.She refused to work on her weak areas about her game and just took her #1 ranking for granted, for like two years.

Agree with the first part, but no, Martina never took the No. 1 ranking for granted. She has said many times that she's been lucky to have it.

3.She refused to work on her MAJOR WEAK area which was her serve. Just cause she was #1 didn't mean she was the better player. She fell into the hype about being #1.

She DID work on her serve. It will never be the strongest, but the major thing was that she lost all confidence in it and could never use it to her full advantage.

4.Played for a ranking postion and yet not getting her game in better order.

We could assume the first part of the statement, but we couldn't possibly KNOW that for sure unless we were Martina ourselves.

5. "Fate" She has remained slamless for 5 years and that is where it all started.

Lindsay
Steffie
Serena
Venus
Jennifer

Bascially those who beat her in the slams imho.

I thought we agreed that Martina was responsible for her own actions. Okay then. :rolleyes:

nuriboy
Dec 21st, 2002, 01:46 PM
I have to agree with Dawn. I think Hingis downfall was caused by herself! Many of the Gs finals she lost she had them in her hand, but let it slip away!!

But the notion that Serena & Venus are getting competition is stupid! Everbody knows that right in GSīs itīs Williams all the time!!

TennisToriTerrificTwosome
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:11 PM
Steffi
Lindsay
Venus
Jennifer
Serena

I don't include Jelena at all.

TeeRexx
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:16 PM
Cause of Marti's scars:

1. 1999 Roland Garros final
2. SERENA
2. VENUS
4. Mommy
5. Sergio
6. Hingis herself

barmaid
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:33 PM
Melanie 's role as a coach and the mother of a 5 Grand Slam winner is undeniable as the contributing force behind her daughter's success. Having "molded" her as a champion of the game at such an early age, the many hours of devotion to the sport of tennis where both daughter and mother have made tremendous sacrifices...Martina her childhood......and Melanie her personal life. But, the ambition and determination of Melanie and the fervent aspirations of her to make her daughter a champion were realized....Martina had a great natural talent for the game...but that all had to be "brought out" to be honed and polished.....Now, enter RG 1999, Martina "cock of the walk" so to speak....a multi-millionaire at 18, a confidence unheralded in a teenager..who dissed legends...was going to waltz to her first French Open championship because she was only playing "old Steffi".....Her mother has said afterwards...that she sat in the stands watching the unravelling of Martina with fear and yet knowing that deep inside her....she knew it would one day happen....her role as a coach had elevated Martina to great heights.....and she watched haplessly as it all came crashing down. No one person was responsible for that debacle....one occurance led to another..and no one could have predicted what was going to happen next. The fact that the bad call went against Martina..was the major reason for her temper tantrum..she "lost it" because of her immaturity...the fact that "everything" had always gone her way......that she was cheated out of that point...and she stubbornly refused to acknowledge that you can't get upset over one little point.....but she did and ultimately paid the price......Personally, while watching the "melt down" myself...I could have gone on the tennis court and "spanked" her.....she did humiliate herself by her juvenile behaviour...but how else can one learn from mistakes? Just by experiencing it first hand......Martina has matured, mellowed and has admitted it is the one thing in tennis that she regrets....and if this is a scar she will have to carry it for the rest of her "dying" days. Sadly, the fire that once burned in her belly, is only a flicker these days....and we can only hope she can stoke that furnace somehow in the near future.....it would be so wonderful to see her back with all that magic and finesse she once displayed.:hearts: :kiss:


barmaid:wavey:

TeeRexx
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:48 PM
Barmaid - Sounds like you were putting that eulogy on Marti's head stone. She still has a few years to retool and regroup her game.

Dawn Marie
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:46 PM
I am not blind, even though Venus and Serena are strong and dominate that still doesn't mean that they will continue to win everything. Fact is in the past 4 years many players are getting better. The wta is tough.

Get with it. Even V@S said themselves that it won't last forever. Same with Martina Hingis because the WTA tour is in contstant motion!! Nuriboy V@S are and DO have competition. If V@S felt that they didn't then in 2 years time they will be where Hingis is at at right now MENTALLY! Hingis clearly under estimated many of the players that she played in her grandslam finals. It started with Steffie and that was the beginning. Which is why I stated that Hingis is the one to blame. She underestimated her competition, heck she went into the OZ open 2000 thinking she had it won, and when Jen beat her it sent her on a downward spirial in the mental department.

I think V@S are tought to beat, but I also think they will have more competiton because that is the way tennis is.

BK4ever
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:01 PM
who cares...nothing last forever and that is why, one should always be humble.

JCAP
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:13 PM
None of the girls,its not there fault they bt her in gs finals!!! Its her own fault,dont blame anyone else!!!

nuriboy
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:29 PM
I didnīt say V&S are unbeatable! I did say that when they play their best they are as close to unbeatable as anyone has ever been!!

BCP
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:47 PM
I'm not a Martina fan in any stretch of the imagination, but I wish she'd get her shit together and come back fighting. Her USO semis and other battles with Venus were breath-taking, and I personally like the way she plays.

I sort of agree with those people that say that she is to blame, so here's my top 5 list:

1. Herself- she was too smug at number 1, too busy lapping up the attention, and not paying attention to those who were gaining ground on her to work on beefing up her game (a la Chris Evert in the late 70s and earfly 80s!)

2. Her mother- Did a wonderful job to take her to number 1, but should have handed Martina over to a more experienced coach to take her game to the next level

3. Anna Kornikova- Martina spent too much time trying to match or exceed Anna in the popularity, fame, glamour stakes, instead on concentrating on improving her game, probably because she felt like she was too ahead of her rivals to bother about it.

4. Steffi Graf- I know you Hingis fans deny it, but that one hurt.

5. Lindsay & the Williams- First Lindsay with her string of wins, then more frequent losses to both Williams sisters. The days of "What rivals?" was well and truly over. J-Cap was probably the final straw.

This being said, hopefully she will have gained some perspective, and refocused her efforts on taking her game forward. A bit of humble pie has probably done her the world of good.

And she is only in her early 20s. Martina Nav and chris evert managed to take their game to new heights in their late 20s.....

Ma. Estefania
Dec 21st, 2002, 10:30 PM
Capriati
If Martina had won AO 2002, she wouldn't have been as the way she's now. At least she could be happy or more motivated for have won a Grand Slam.....but Capriati won at last....

Kiswana
Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:54 AM
Ma. it would've been an interesting year if MH had won the Aus Open. She'd win the Pan Pacific a week later so she wasn't traumatised by her collapse against Cappy.

I agree with Volcana that MH's inability to intimidate players has evaporated her confidence.

I disagree that she doesn't have any mental scars. She does. They're increasing every year. Just ask Evert and Navratilova what it was like to finish the final 4 years of their respective careers without a GS title.

Deira
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:40 AM
I have to disagree about Melanie being a handicap to Martina. Commentators have spoken on the fact that Melanie has constantly prodded Martina to improve different areas of her game, especially the serve. Martina herself said that her mother is much more competitive than she is. Hingis has been playing the same way all these years and it use to work for her, but no more. She's either too subborn to change, or she just can't. It's like a boxer who has trained to fight a certain way. He can change his style for maybe a few rounds, but in the end he always reverts back to what he knows whether it helps or not.

Dawn Marie
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:56 AM
Nuriboy, well heck I agree with you and what the heck are we debating about again. It seems we are in total agreement!!:)

BasicTennis
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Nuriboy, well heck I agree with you and what the heck are we debating about again. It seems we are in total agreement!!:)

you guys can always AGREE to DISAGREE.;)

Dawn Marie
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:47 AM
OR TO A LESSER DEGREE, AGREE;):):D

irma
Dec 22nd, 2002, 10:41 AM
"I did a lot of things for my mother"

if that isn't a prove. martina doesn't like tennis. she was forced to play and well she was good in it and winning and trophy's are always nice so she did her best

when she played bad in filderstadt. she went off the tour and (I already said this on another board) when you are in such pain you really are not want to ski. it was all because she couldn't win and without that martina doesn't want to play

monica didn't win a grand slams since 96. I am sure she knows that she is better then that still she plays, because she loves tennis

wimbledon 99 is another prove. she was not the first who lost a painfull french open final. still these players often go out and practise more since they want to prove that they are better then that and did well in wimbledon.

martina on the other hand tanked her match and went lying on the beach with one of her lovers


martina even said that if she could earn as much with riding horses. she had not even thought about playing tennis

even her father said that her mother scared her and made her nervous already when she was little

that pic where martina's buggy is standing next too the tenniscourts. is one of the saddest tennispics I ever saw!

Tatiana Panova
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:33 PM
I also think FO 2000 when Mary spanked her was a blow. She said herself that she thinks she should have won the match. She had basically had Mary's number before that and read where the bullets were going - as soon as Mary improved her movement and consistency, Martina was flummuxed.

I think she is just bawled over by the enormity of what she believes she has to do - there are so many big hitters now that if they are firing there is very little she can do. I think she puts too much expectation of herself without just relaxing. Then again her game is very thoughful.

But I think that Martina will overcome these mental scars with time to heal them - and eventually she may just relax and just play the great tennis we know she is capable of.

essielewis
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:11 PM
I totally agree with you Irma. Martina played tennis because she loved her mother and wanted to please her. That's what children do, try hard to please their parents. Luckily it turned out that Martina had an aptitude for tennis and was good at it. She was lucky because a lot of children whose parents want them to be great players turn out not to be so great.:fiery: For Martina it worked out but I don't think she would be at all interested in being just another player, winning an occasional tournament and hovering around the top 5 or 10, like Monica. For Martina, winning is everything.:rolleyes: Monica loves to play tennis and is happy just to be on the court.:hearts:

I seriously doubt Martina Hingis will make a comeback. I really think her pro tennis career is over.:sad: During the championships in LA last month she said she was just "riding horses" and she hadn't been training at all. She sounds to me like a young girl who wants to be like everybody else.:rolleyes:

She's still very young so if she decided to retire and then decided in a year or two that she wanted to come back, she would still have time. But, she would have to be willing to make drastic changes in her game.:)

nuriboy
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:15 PM
Ok dan DawnMarie.......weīre all agreed here!!

Light-skinned Girl
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:33 PM
The power players are *most* responsible. They have chipped away at Marti's confidence for 4 years and she *doesn't* have the answers anymore which is sad. :sad:

Fingon
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:29 PM
I don't think Martina's scars have a single origin, I think it was a succession of things that caused that.

The first being that she won everything too early, too easy. After 1997 she thought she only needed to show up to win Grand Slams, nevermind smaller tournaments.

At the end of 1997, the first signs of the problems to come where shown, Martina got just lazy and overconfident, and lost a couple of matches she shouldn't have.

But in 1998, at the Australian Open, she nearly lost to Anna Kournikova in the third round and it was a wake up call. The next match, Martina was focused and won 6-0 6-0 and she only had one more tough match in her route to the title. The message was clear, even if she struggled, as soon as she got focused she could win.

Then 1999 come, French Open, her most wanted slam, she was so close to getting it, and lost it (her own fault). Then Wimbledon, losing in the first round to a player ranked outside the top 100.

and then the extra-pressure, slamless in 2000, losing 5 matches in a row to Lindsay Davenport (including IW where she had a huge lead). Then losing to Venus at the US Open when she was 5-3 up in the third set and failed an easy overhead that would have given her match point.

Then Australian Open 2001 that she was sure she was going to win and a surprising Capriati beat her. At this point Martina got desperate, she overscheduled and started to lose to players she wouldn't have lost before.

It seemed that Martina definitely couldn't handle Venus and Serena, plus Capriati, Davenport, Monica, and the new players such as Kim, Justine, Daniela.

Australian Open 2002 should have been hers, and she lost it after having it wrapped up, from then on, Martina wasn't longer a contender, if Venus, Serena or Capriati were on the other side you knew she was going to lose.

then the injury, coming back too soon and having the worst loss of her career in Moscow (I think that loss made her rethink her whole career).

Now she will have it really tough, she will be outside the top 30 when she comes back, and has to face a lot of players that can beat her. It doesn't look too promising but she has the talent to overcome it, does she have the will power? I don't know.

PhoenixStorm
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:18 PM
say bye bye to top ten marty and hello to top twenty marty. Its not bad for you martina fans, she will still be a great top twenty player.

Rachel
Dec 22nd, 2002, 09:59 PM
Hingis is def. the only person responsible for her mental scars ... the players listed, IMO, are the ones she has showed her weaknesses against the most/more often...

o0O0o
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:06 AM
Responsible for Hingis' mental scars? Herself. She just put too much pressure on herself. When some players lose they just view it as a tennis match...you can't win them all. But I think Hingis took matches too seriously and let them weigh her down.

(On a side note, anyone who says Martina Hingis needs to re-tool her game is kidding themselves. IMO she could beat anyone in the world at this moment if she plays as she did in Australia. Which is to say fast, aggressive, and consistent, three qualitites she lost due to injury. But nevermind that.)

Ma. Estefania
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:50 AM
No comments for some people.