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View Full Version : beign politically correct, is that right?


Fingon
Dec 19th, 2002, 10:13 PM
I've been thinking about that lately.

Of course, I am white, male, straight, so, I don't suffer any discrimination and possibly I can't know how it feels, that's why I ask people what they think.

In my view, being politically correct makes things worse, not better.

I think the message should be: NO DISCRIMINATION. They should teach people that a person isn't better or worse because of his/her skin colour or sexual orientation, but rather what they do is to say "don't say that, it's not right".

So, I think that people are then polite, and don't use insulting terms just because they have to and not because they feel it and are convinced it's the right thing.

I imagine (and again, I can only imagine) if I was black and a white person is polite to me, I would always wonder if he/she really likes me or is being "politically correct".

per4ever
Dec 19th, 2002, 10:15 PM
hmm if you were black and you would think something like that, then you're discriminating yourself no? Then you would think you are different...

Fingon
Dec 19th, 2002, 10:17 PM
maybe, but that how I would feel knnowing the other person is "supposed" to behave like that.

harloo
Dec 19th, 2002, 11:36 PM
;)

harloo
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:05 AM
Well Fingon I think it comes down to what position you are in society. If you are a senator representing a state that is diverse then you should have politically correct views. Groups get offended , and that's not just black people. It's all about how you express it also. Many make outlandish statements and expect not to receive any criticism for offending different groups.

However if you a random guy who lives in a trailer park then you can say whatever you want as long as you arent hurting anyone. I always encourage free speech, however some of the things that are said are very offensive and hurtful at times to other minorities. On the bright side though, freedom of speech is exercised and allows us all to express ourselves.

Some of my white co workers have said some nice things to me, but I just don't think they are being politically correct. They actually like me, at least I think.

Car Key Boi
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:41 AM
below is a monster post that i made earlier today on another message board and it explains my position on PC. Although i'm not a racist, i feel that trying to implement 'legislation' in trying to stop it, is as futile and effective as implementing legislation against the taking of drugs.

that is all



lol, what was it that pleasantly surprised yuo on wtaworld? and yuo're correct in that i am indeed fortunate to have a lot of free time to kill, it's one of the reasons why i took up keying and thanks for the good luck wishes with Nelissa, the evening was a success (no, not that much of a success) but she was very pleased in regard to some of the business we discussed with her colleagues and she was very happy with myself on a personal note in regard to the Home Page that i'd made for her earlier in the day. At the end of the evening she took me to one side and gave me quick kiss and promised to get together again to "do some more work on the home page". I'm telling ya, the Car Key Boi is airborne and is about to commence the bomb run

Now lets get serious. I think that yuo are an intelligent guy also, but yuo are incredibly naive, and i don't mean that disrespectfully (troof), because yuo're obviously still a yuong guy and by yuor own admission, not well traveled. Well, whatever yuo may think of me, i'm very well traveled (yes i know all about UK politics, i go to London 2-3 times a year) and i know exactly what makes the world turn, because i'm one of the Bois that makes it. Incredible boast yuo might think, but that's why i'm gonna take the time to tell yuo something about myself. I work/have worked for some of the largest financial institutions in America, both on an employed basis, and freelance, and it's the army of Bois like myself who are responsible for putting electricity into the homes of Americans, putting gas in their cars, building their hospitals, schools, airports, cities blah

We build nations, and that's half the reason why i'm currently in the Caribbean. There's a team of us (and more teams to follow) who are in talks with various representatives from various Caribbean govts. and banks (Nelissa is one) and we're discussing a project that would be the biggest engineering project the Caribbean has even seen. We're talking about the laying of a huge ass pipeline supplying natural gas and would start in Trinidad and run up to Barbados and possibly beyond. Something like this will not happen overnight, an exhaustive and arduous amount of political, financial and legal engineering has to be concluded before the real engineering of laying the damn thing can commence. This will take a few years, so far the talks that i've been involved in are only "what if?" talks, and they've been on-going for the best part of the year. But if it happens - and i think it will - it will change the economic climate of that region and many millions of people will benefit - not directly- but the benefits to their respective economies will eventually filter down to the guy on the street.

And, i'll let yuo into another secret, although some of the following might not be news to those of yuo who read my shit on wtaworld. Although i'm a vulgar, sick, asshole (and I readily admit it) and some of yuo may think i'm childish, i'm actually the norm for my age. I am a true representative of grown-up bois. We often act like assholes (and this applies to ALL nationalities), i more than most, discussing stories and gags that are either sick, vile, vulgar, sexist, racist, homophobic or in the case of Anna K and the uber-babe, just downright pornographic. I and my kind is wait awaits yuo. When yuo student assholes leave the Politically Correct sheltered environment of yuor college, yuo will be thrust upon the non PC assholes like myself, and yuor ass will be mine. Yuo will be working under me and my kind, day in, day out, and yuo will be subjected to all the sick jokes/gags/stories and there is nothing that yuo can do to escape it. Whatever career or job yuo choose, i'll be there. Sure there are a few PC nazis out there trying to exterminate us Bois, but they can never succeed, we outnumber them a million to one, and besides, we run the country, they don't, and certainly not that asshole Bush, and yes, even though i'm a staunch republican (economic reasons more then anything) i don't mind admitting that our President is a fucktard. But Presidents come and go and so will Bush, but the Car Key Boi and his kind are constant, we're like the wind, we're always there regardless of whatever the current political climate happens to be.

So why am i telling yuo all this shit? so that yuo understand where i'm coming from and that, although i act like an asshole most of the time, i'm actually a very educated and worldly guy, who's experience of the world and it's people, far exceeds most of yuo guys (maybe not all) but i would think certainly most of the students here.

KNOW THIS

there is NOTHING that offends the Car Key Boi, and certainly not the fact that the uber-babe is a racist and hates gays/muslims/catholics blah. Although i'm not a racist myself, i tolerate just about everything, even the racist rants of I Shit In Yuor Convertible Boi who happens to be one of my very best friends who i've known since high school. When i come back from this tour and tell him of my exploits with Nelissa, i'm certain that he's going to launch into another racist tirade at me, and while he's doing it, i will smile at him even more and describe to him in even more detail what a fabulous woman Nelissa is, knowing this will agitate him even more.

I previously mentioned the Klan and the other extreme organizations to emphasize that Damir's and Jelena's views are not uncommon, especially in America, and not because i was suggesting the ridiculous notion that Jelena may have affiliated with the Klan during her stay there (although the visual image of Jelena dressed up in Klan attire is rather appealing), but the fact that we have those large organizations is a testament to how common racism is, and those people who are members of the Klan blah are only a small representation. I could easily find a dozen Damirs or ISIYC Boi's at my local bar and i doubt if any one of them have the time or the passion to belong to any such organization, and the same applies to Jelena.

Glyn, yuo made some whimsical and dare i say, wishful arguments when yuo said "Jelena's time in the States (and on the tour) must have been a time of self discovery, and meeting new people with different views on things would certainly have had a good affect on her. It's common knowledge that the harder you (yuo) force things on people, the more likely they'll be to resist."

i don't doubt for a second that Jelena encountered new experiences and views, but she certainly would have encountered the same old views held by her father, just as i do when i travel the world. And the common knowledge about resisting something the more it's forced upon yuo is true (say if i was to try and force a bottle of bourbon down yuor throat) but it doesn't apply in this context. Damir did not force his views as such, he didn't beat Jelena with a stick every day and say to her "yuo must hate lesbians", he slowly infected his daughter with his views in normal conversation, day in, day out, the same way i will infect yuor ass with my sick gags when yuo're working under me. ISIYC boi has 2 children, both of them boys, and yes both of them are racists, and i doubt if they spend half the time with their dad, then what Jelena spent with hers.

Yuo made a weak argument about Jelena traveling on her own sometimes, and or with her mom, as if this would somehow counteract the influence of the father. Make no mistake, a few trips traveling around the world meeting 'new' people, aint gonna remove the poison if yuo like, that the father has been feeding her for all of her life. Also, KNOW THIS, it's not just the uber-babe who will share the father's views, the same will apply to her grandparents (who taught Damir), and also her mother and any brothers or sisters she might have. The feeding of the poison starts when she was 4 or 5, and by the time she was 11 or 12, the job was done. This is the way things are, and this is what happened in the case of ISIYC Boi's two boys and for millions of others the world over.

You posted this line "If she is an extreme right winger, and a racist, and a homophobe and whatever else she's been accused of then that's another matter"

That indicates to me, that although yuo may not be a left winger, yuo certainly have a problem reconciling yuor ideals, with those of the uber-babe's.

I say this to yuo, it will be self-denying yuor obvious intelligence to engage in the wishful thinking of reasons as to why the uber-babe does not harbor the views and ideals that don't agree with yuor own. I don't expect everyone to be like myself and to tolerate eveything the way i do, but i certainly suggest that yuo always be true to yuorself and to see things for the way they are, and not the way yuo would like them to be. This is a faculty that is very important for making yuor way through life and will stand yuo in good stead, especially if yuo enter a career when yuo've completed yuor studies. This is why i've taken the time to write this novel, because it's certainly more important then trival stuff like supporting hot tennis players who possess large racks. Like Presidents, tennis players come and go, Jelena may be hot now, but in a few years time she could easily be a broken down skanked out candidate for MILF. So support the uber-babe and enjoy watching her while she's around, but accept her for what she is, and be cool with it.

Now after that long serious post, excuse me while i make my way to wtaworld to post a thread with the title "question for straight bois, would yuo suck a dick for a million bucks?"

Melanie2
Dec 20th, 2002, 01:34 AM
I think "P.C" is used by people in a joking way, to belittle the fact that there is racism and sexism (etc) in the system. In my experience, people use it like this "eat your greens Bobbie or you'll grow up queer... ohhh, I guess that's not very PC is it?" Usually it's white, well-off straight people who use the term PC like that... and usually they are racist and homophobic and believe 1000 stereotypes, because they have never had friends of other races, or gay friends or whatever, and have never been discriminated against. They want to pretend that they are not discriminatory, they want to believe that the society created for them, by them, is fair and wonderful, and that there are PC police trying to cause trouble by suggesting a bit of sensitivity and real fairness wouldn't go amiss. I gag when I hear people talking like that, because they exaggerate it (like the jokes about someone being vertically challenged or whatever) to belittle it. Language does cause harm to people, and we owe it to other people to be careful with language. It's not amusing to be racist, or to use language that denegrates other people, it's pathetic and ignorant. I think it's sad that a valid message, that people should avoid using insulting language when talking about one another, has been hijacked and made a joke. Calling politeness "politically correct" suggests it's a trend, and suggests it's not really correct, that it is just superficial and unimportant. That's bollocks.

Fingon
Dec 20th, 2002, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by harloo
Well Fingon I think it comes down to what position you are in society. If you are a senator representing a state that is diverse then you should have politically correct views. Groups get offended , and that's not just black people. It's all about how you express it also. Many make outlandish statements and expect not to receive any criticism for offending different groups.

However if you a random guy who lives in a trailer park then you can say whatever you want as long as you arent hurting anyone. I always encourage free speech, however some of the things that are said are very offensive and hurtful at times to other minorities. On the bright side though, freedom of speech is exercised and allows us all to express ourselves.

Some of my white co workers have said some nice things to me, but I just don't think they are being politically correct. They actually like me, at least I think.

Harloo, I don't know in the US, but in Canada it extends to some other areas, not only politicians.

For example at work, if you work in a big company you have to behave in a certain way, it's very easy you can be accused of harassment (not only sexual but in general), and that's regarding everything: colour, religion, sexual prefrences, marital status, gender, etc.

But my point is that they are not attacking the problem, they are giving it a lift.

as an example, and forgive me to use race again but it's the most obvious. A racist person can shake the hand of a black person, with a smile on his face, but thinking something completely different. They should educate people not to THINK in a discriminatory way, behaviour would follow, but they are just teaching behaviour.

How many times a little boy would say something offensive to someone and his mother would be embarassed and say "hey, you shouldn't be saying that" when she really should teach him not to think of the other person as an inferior one just because the other person is different.

korben
Dec 20th, 2002, 04:27 AM
http://www.elftor.com/elftor.php?number=30

BritneySpearsIsHot
Dec 20th, 2002, 06:30 AM
You have to be careful about what you say because there are always people that will cry Racism, Sexism, Ageism etc etc if they want there own way.

This post is not saying all people are like that, they aren't, but i expect someone to try and twist it.

I won't go on anymore as like i say, you gotta be careful

griffin
Dec 20th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Fingon, I'd like to believe that we're supposed to polite and respectful to everyone, regardless (unless they give a good reason not to be). I do try to avoid saying ugly/hurtful/rude things to people, and I try to treat everyone I meet as fairly as possible - if you want to call that "politically correct" be my guest, but my grandmother called it "good manners." ;)

I actually can't stand the terms "politically correct" and "politically incorrect" - simply because they've been so abused by people on all sides trying to dismiss the other's concerns that their meaningless. I would also agree with you that the urge to be "pc" can be taken too far, or done in ways that really aren't helpful, but the fact is that language does reflect the way we think in many ways and I do believe that making people stop and think about the language or humor that they use, where it comes from and/or how that affects people different for you is a good and effective way to get at the assumptions and biases we have.

Of course, to do that the mother in your example needs to explain why the child shouldn't say a thing rather than simply forbid it, but I also think forbiding the use of say, a word needs to be part of the equation if you want the child to understand that being offensive is serious.

Again, I agree people can go overboard. But I think a better way to deal with that is to deal with it directly, to engage in a dialog of some kind rather than slap a label on it and dismiss it entirely.