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CHOCO
Dec 19th, 2002, 07:27 PM
I heard on a sports talk show (FOX-Tony Bruno) this morning that PETA will launch an all out attack on Serena Williams for wearing furs and leather. This will take place sometime next year. I'm pissed off about this because it's not like Serena flaunts furs all the time.

They would have to go after one of the hottest celebrities around. My main concern is for Serena emotional stability under this type of pressure. Because the guy who reported this (Cliff Dunne?) said PETA would picket some of the tourneys that Serena will appear.

I've been looking for confirmation on the Web since the story broke this morning. If someone else comes across some info, please post it. Thanks.

Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2002, 07:28 PM
Well, if she stopped wearing the animals, would they stop?

Scotso
Dec 19th, 2002, 07:29 PM
Who cares if she flaunts them or not. If PETA is against people wearing fur and Serena does, that's her problem.

I make it a point not to feel sorry for people worth millions.

miranda_lou
Dec 19th, 2002, 07:55 PM
They would have to go after one of the hottest celebrities around

Uh, I think that's the point.:rolleyes: Why picket some unknown person? PETA's whole point in picketing is to garner publicity for their "cause" and Serena is hot now and she adores fur and leather. So, she's PETA's current choice.

The goal of these terrorists is to embarrase a celebrity into giving up wearing fur.:o Personally, I don't like fur and would never wear one but if Serena or anybody else chooses to wear fur, it's their business and no group should stop that person.:( PETA is a terriorist organization. They brow beat, threaten and intimidate any famous person they see wearing a fur. In fact, just recently at a runway show they jumped onto the stage and frighten the models who were simply modeling fur.:fiery: Also, a few years ago a group of them walked into a restaurant and threw a bloody, dead rat into the plate of Vogue editor Anna Wintour.

They are a bunch of evil people and I don't approve of their tactics and I really hope Serena doesn't give in to them.:cool:

TheBoiledEgg
Dec 19th, 2002, 07:58 PM
Wearing Fur is WRONG and barbaric

Killing 100 animals to make 1 Fur Coat ........ and thats a good thing ??? :rolleyes:

tennischick
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:04 PM
Serena really should be a tad more enlightened in these times...

having said this...it is actually quite an honor to be targeted by PETA. it means that Serena has arrived and is perceived as a true celebrity! not even Venus got this honor when she brought out her Wilson leatherwear line. good for Serena!

i wonder if they will douse her in blood or anything equally controversial? :eek: :eek:

next up, her star on a Hollywood boulevard!!!! :eek: :eek:

Rae Q.
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:09 PM
Hey Choco. :wavey:

If Serena wasn't a celebrity they wouldn't really care. Wouldn't it be a crack up if during a match they throw some red paint onto the court. ;)

Infiniti2001
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:10 PM
I am not a violent person nor do I care for guns , but I really hope Serena obtains a licence to carry one... It's time to put these idiots in their collective places... Why don't they put all their energies into helping the under-previlege??:rolleyes:

Pureracket
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:10 PM
miranda,
That protest scene on the runway was wild!!!!!

griffin
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Infiniti2001
I am not a violent person nor do I care for guns , but I really hope Serena obtains a licence to carry one... It's time to put these idiots in their collective places...

OK, I think their tactics go WAY overboard and are probably counter-productive, but getting a gun to "put them in their place"?

FTR, most of the people I've know who've been involved with PETA (although I don't think any of them would have done something so insane as throwing dead rats at people) did not believe that human lives were worth more than animal lives - in their minds they are sticking up for the helpless and the underpriviledged.

lokon
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:24 PM
Woah, miranda perhaps you need to step back a second and carefully choose your words. Classifying PETA as an organization similar to Al-Qaeda, the Abu-Sayef, et. al. is just a tad extreme. They arent slaughtering hundreds of innocent people to get their message across.

IMO they employ very creative ways that attract attention to their cause. So what if they firghtened some poor waif-girl, perhaps that model will reconsider taking a job in which fur is not a part of the clothing line. The target is to bring attention to animal rights, being an awful meanie and spouting words of disgust to people wearing fur certainly isnt the same as taking a rifle and shooting dead those same individuals. The reason for targetting serena is because of her current mass appeal. You get her to stop wearing fur, you just might influence some others to do the same.

Is it such a horrible idea to re-examine the way we treat other living creatures?:) :)

(BTW hello all)

Havok
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:27 PM
they're just going after the millionaires because they are greedy @$$holes and want money. frankly i find clothes made out of fur disgusting and i don'tthink that it's worth it to kill apoor defenseless animal just to wear something????? they shouldgo after the companies who manufacture these horrible fur clothes IMO!

griffin
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:30 PM
Pray tell, how do you suppose their actions get them money?

Do you think someone who's just gotten red paint thrown on a 5 figure fur coat is going to hand over a donation or something?

Jakeev
Dec 19th, 2002, 08:57 PM
Yeah comparing PETA to murderous terrorist organizations is kinda extreme itself. But I like to think of PETA has a Three Stooges comedy. Some of the things they have done have been rather hilarious.

But In America we are free to do what we want. If Serena wants to wear 100 dead animals that is her choice. ANd if PETA wants to show her how they feel, they may do what they want as long as it's not illegal.

CC
Dec 19th, 2002, 09:19 PM
What about personal rights?

Halardfan
Dec 19th, 2002, 09:48 PM
I was kinda of hoping the furs would turn out to be fake...

I guess Serena has a right to wear what she wants, and PETA have a right to react in turn...

My oppostion to fur, for the record, has nothing at all to do with my (largely quite positive) views on the person in question...

nuriboy
Dec 19th, 2002, 09:50 PM
I don´t know why PETA´s making such a big deal of it?Does Serena wear fur all the time?

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 19th, 2002, 10:02 PM
I think that PETA people are a bit extreme. If they feel this way then they should never step on a patch of grass, never write on paper, never sit on leather couch, Never eat veggies because there are people who believe that the enviornment is being ruined and all trees are to be protected so therefore we must protect all trees and veggies too right...:rolleyes:

CHOCO
Dec 20th, 2002, 02:43 AM
Thanks for all the insightful replies. :)

I fall on the side that if PETA wants to get their point over to Serena, they should contact her personally and explain their position to her. Many of their tactics ARE extreme and distasteful. Is disrupting fashion shows, throwing red dye on people and generally harrassing people that wear furs is really helping their cause. Or is it alienating people who could be sympathetic to their cause?

BTW, Serena is a very intelligent person who is very conscious about what is going on in the world today.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Dec 20th, 2002, 03:21 AM
Infiniti 2001 wrote:
Why don't they put all their energies into helping the under-previlege??

Ah, but they did. In one of the big northern England cities (I can't remember offhand whether it was Liverpool or Manchester), they gave homeless people fur coats that had been spray-painted.

Why they couldn't work with Habitat for Humanity and build these people homes is another question. :mad: :mad:

And of course, the furs were spray-painted so that the homeless couldn't sell them to somebody to make a quick quid. God forbid PETA should actually do anything worthwhile to help the homeless.

disposablehero
Dec 20th, 2002, 03:35 AM
I understand where PETA is coming from, because I consider myself and animal lover, but some of them are just plain extreme and delusional.

Like when they freaked out over college students betting on what part of a field a cow would crap in next. Then it became a big deal about the students feeding the cow laxatives. Small problem, someone from PETA made that part up.

korben
Dec 20th, 2002, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by TheBoiledEgg
Wearing Fur is WRONG and barbaric

What should eskimos and siberians wear then ? Calvin Klein and Armani :rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Dec 20th, 2002, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by korben
What should eskimos and siberians wear then ? Calvin Klein and Armani :rolleyes:

so true...;)

CHOCO
Dec 20th, 2002, 05:54 AM
korben - sooo true! :)

WtaTour4Ever
Dec 20th, 2002, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by korben
What should eskimos and siberians wear then ? Calvin Klein and Armani :rolleyes:

Good Point!!!

persond
Dec 20th, 2002, 06:14 AM
:) She has two furs and swears she'll "kill" the first "mutha" that tries to mess with "her furs". Sister said she worked too, too, hard to buy'em!!!:D :D I hope Serena feels the same for her furs as my sister does.!!!:D :D

Jakeev
Dec 20th, 2002, 08:16 AM
I don't think eskimos and siberians have mink farms.....they live off the land; that is a tremendous difference. We are also talking about people that strive in protecting the environment not hurting it.

So dissing Boiled Egg Korben did not work for me but figures who did agree with you lol......

Halardfan
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:54 AM
Its all about where we draw the line...we all pick a different place...there are a whole range of of animal issues, some people are vegan, others (Like me!) Veggie, some eat meat but are against fur and animal testing, some eat meat but are against hunting, some eat and kill and wear anything that moves! (The French do this! :D ;)

It just so happens that Ive drawn the line in the right place, and everyone else is wrong. ;) :D

korben
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Jakeev
I don't think eskimos and siberians have mink farms.....they live off the land; that is a tremendous difference. We are also talking about people that strive in protecting the environment not hurting it.

So dissing Boiled Egg Korben did not work for me but figures who did agree with you lol......

Siberians don´t live "off land" Point was that some people live in such cold conditions that they MUST wear a fur coat just to survive. Not slamming tbe but his comment was easy to catch.

And in here there have been lots of discussion about animal rights. Activists have freed thousands of minks from farms. And when on loose they either died for not being able to live outside of cage. The minks not the activists. Or then started eating other animals, like pet dogs. Result - all freed animals died. Or were caught and put back to cage. And Finland is one of Top 5 producers of minkcoats....

Completely off topic, they eat dogs in some countries too. Sick... or maybe not, just diffirent culture.

-Sonic-
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:49 PM
I don't know a lot about PETA and what they do, but I know when I see someone in a fur coat i go "yuck"... even if its fake the whole idea of it is ugly to me... its like the people who shoot something then stick its head on the wall, yuck. My mum saw a stuffed toy version of a tiger-head on the wall in John Lewis and I was like "err, gross".

"Also, a few years ago a group of them walked into a restaurant and threw a bloody, dead rat into the plate of Vogue editor Anna Wintour" ~ hahahahaha. I just wonder how the rat got dead, hnmm... hope Anna didn't skin it afterwards to make a 'divine' glasses case.

Of course part of me is hypocritical... I still eat meat and i've had shoes made of leather before. Not as much as I could or used to... i'd rather have these freaky mushroom burgers from tescos than a beef one, but i still do.

Experimentee
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:51 PM
Why not target the many other celebs that wear fur and leather all the time? Serena only did it once as far as i know, its not like she wears fur on court, which is where shes seen the most! But there are many movie stars and models that wear fur and leather out to public appearances and fashions shows all the time so they really shouldnt single out Serena.

TheBoiledEgg
Dec 20th, 2002, 12:56 PM
don't matter what the eskimos or the Siberians wear,
Fact: they need something that thick to keep them warm

Rich People just wear it to show off

starr
Dec 20th, 2002, 01:07 PM
Oh.... I love it!!

What a scene!! Peta throws red paint across the green tennis court and Serena whips out pistols cunningly concealed in the copious bust line of her catsuit and fires into the crowd painting the stands (and unavoidably the spectators' clothing) a with in a complimentary color.

Yes! Serena definitely must start carrying weapons. And then she can sign with the NRA too! I'm looking forward to a Super Bowl commercial where guns and McDonalds somehow blend.

And Serena can get her tennis outfits trimmed with fur.... a little fur trim down the plunging bust line...

gentenaire
Dec 20th, 2002, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by korben

Completely off topic, they eat dogs in some countries too. Sick... or maybe not, just diffirent culture.

I'm not opposed to eating unconventional meat, but when you hear about how the animals suffer for it, I am very much opposed to it. I heard that dogs are skinned alive and like lobster, almost need to be prepared alive, or it doesn't taste good. Apparently, you see these shivering skinned dogs in the market stalls.

lokon
Dec 20th, 2002, 01:22 PM
What should eskimos and siberians wear then ? Calvin Klein and Armani

Please tell me how many PETA ads select these individuals in anti-fur campaigns.....hmmm...oh yeah, probably none. Fur is mainly used as a status symbol by the old and nouveau rich along with elitism-seeking individuals who want to feel better than others. These people arent aware of the conditions in which the fur (or conflict diamonds for that matter) are derived. Do you really believe that a postcard in the mail will gather more attention than getting red dye tossed all over your new fur stoll? I think PETA grabs attention in unconventional manners, and I agree that many instances some foresight could have been used to tactfully get the message across, but in no way do I think what they do is condemnable.

Why don't they put all their energies into helping the under-previlege??

We have organizations that already do this: the Red Cross, H4H, the United Way, just to name a few. Tell me how do you know that people involved with PETA arent also a part of the previous groups? Even if they arent someone needs to be able to speak for those who cannot. This is why we have a department of child welfare. But what is so horribly wrong in trying to bring about a change in animal rights?:confused:

:) :D :)

Rocketta
Dec 20th, 2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Experimentee
Why not target the many other celebs that wear fur and leather all the time? Serena only did it once as far as i know, its not like she wears fur on court, which is where shes seen the most! But there are many movie stars and models that wear fur and leather out to public appearances and fashions shows all the time so they really shouldnt single out Serena.

I'll tell you why because if they went after a rapper or something they would get a cap in their Ass! They know exactly who to approach and who not to. Its funny because most of the stories I heard was them going after women. A lot of men wear leather and fur. Could it be some PETA members are afraid that if they throw paint on a guy that he will proceed to kick that butt?

CHOCO
Dec 20th, 2002, 04:46 PM
Rocketta - good point! :)

I also wonder how many of these PETA activists eat meat and wear leather shoes and boots?

Also, if they are into protecting animal rights, do they also protect human and civil rights of others? ;)

lokon
Dec 20th, 2002, 05:26 PM
Rocketta - they do go after rappers, especially Puffy for the line of clothes he develops. Here is an article regarding that.

http://www.peta-online.org/news/0201/0201puffy.html

Choco - Im sure some activists do consume meat, its called free range meat where its ensured the animals were slaughtered in a more benevolent manner. And, yes many of them are concerned over human rights, if you go to their website they have commentary for such things like domestic abuse. However, their organization is for the "ethical treatment of animals" We have the ACLU and other groups to defend our civil liberties.

:bounce: "If we werent supposed to eat meat....why are we made of it?" - Homer Simpson :bounce:

MLF
Dec 20th, 2002, 06:04 PM
Wearing fur is not merely a choice. It is a disgusting thing and I see no problem with anti-fur activists staging a demonstration against a celebrity wearing fur as long as it is contained within reasonable limits of course. I've no objections to banners being held up or a few comments made at Serena's matches. I am a Serena fan. I think she's a great girl but celebrities wearing fur help legitimise the idea of it being acceptable. I had been hoping it was fake fur Serena was wearing and am disappointed that it isn't.

As the old Lynx slogan went " It takes up to forty dumb animals to make a fur coat, but only one to wear it."

The Crow
Dec 20th, 2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Infiniti2001
I am not a violent person nor do I care for guns , but I really hope Serena obtains a licence to carry one... It's time to put these idiots in their collective places...

And you are not a violent person? :rolleyes:

The Crow
Dec 20th, 2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by MirjanaLfan
Wearing fur is not merely a choice. It is a disgusting thing and I see no problem with anti-fur activists staging a demonstration against a celebrity wearing fur as long as it is contained within reasonable limits of course. I've no objections to banners being held up or a few comments made at Serena's matches. I am a Serena fan. I think she's a great girl but celebrities wearing fur help legitimise the idea of it being acceptable. I had been hoping it was fake fur Serena was wearing and am disappointed that it isn't.

As the old Lynx slogan went " It takes up to forty dumb animals to make a fur coat, but only one to wear it."

Great post!

Princess Fiona
Dec 20th, 2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by MirjanaLfan
Wearing fur is not merely a choice. It is a disgusting thing and I see no problem with anti-fur activists staging a demonstration against a celebrity wearing fur as long as it is contained within reasonable limits of course. I've no objections to banners being held up or a few comments made at Serena's matches. I am a Serena fan. I think she's a great girl but celebrities wearing fur help legitimise the idea of it being acceptable. I had been hoping it was fake fur Serena was wearing and am disappointed that it isn't.

As the old Lynx slogan went " It takes up to forty dumb animals to make a fur coat, but only one to wear it."

*also applauding this post* :)

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2002, 10:36 PM
From the responses I'm getting PETA is not doing a good job. They're getting more bad publicity than good and people who are in the middle (undecided) about these issues will sway towards the "not caring" side rather than the caring side.

I do believe actions speak louder than words :::cough::: (I should take note too, and get back to study). PETA stop making noise and controversy and get to work through quieter ways.

I might write to them them about this actually, does anyone feel the same? That they're creating more negative publicity for themselves that people are seeing them as been extreme and out of touch?

Put it this way, people who like Serena Williams or the Bundchen girl from Brazil aren't going to stop liking them because of PETA. Therefore they've failed.

Princess Fiona
Dec 20th, 2002, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Sam L
I do believe actions speak louder than words :::cough::: (I should take note too, and get back to study). PETA stop making noise and controversy and get to work through quieter ways.

I don't pretend I know a lot about PETA, and I deplore any "extremist" actions (perhaps I need a better word here) but what do you suggest they do to bring such issues to the public's attention? Hmmm...

I might write to them them about this actually, does anyone feel the same? That they're creating more negative publicity for themselves that people are seeing them as been extreme and out of touch?

Yeah, nice idea to write to them... *note to self: investigate PETA*

Put it this way, people who like Serena Williams or the Bundchen girl from Brazil aren't going to stop liking them because of PETA. Therefore they've failed.

But they've drawn attention to them, yes? A lot of people (young people) find wearing fur despicable - I can see some young girls not caring so much for Serena because of this...

MLF
Dec 20th, 2002, 10:49 PM
Thanks Joris and Fiona for your support on this issue!

PETA are not extremists. That's rubbish. They have many celebrity supporters including Stella McCartney, Dannii Minogue, Belinda Carlisle and Sophie Ellis Bextor ( pictured below for the new PETA ad campaign ) who are all people who would not associate themselves with an organisation that was considered extremist.

http://www.ananova.com/images/web/35283.jpg

Good on sophie for getting involved. A responsible celebrity unlike um Serena Williams

Sam L
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by MirjanaLfan
PETA are not extremists. That's rubbish.

I agree but I lot of people view them as been so, which is not good. Wouldn't you say half the people in this thread are opposed to PETA?

"A lot of people (young people) find wearing fur despicable - I can see some young girls not caring so much for Serena because of this..."

--- Franziska, that's great, that's what I want too.

"what do you suggest they do to bring such issues to the public's attention?"

--- Franziska, there are many ways to bring issues to public's attention. Except I don't think this is the most effective that's all. There are quieter ways to put these issues to rest. Maybe PETA should work on them.

-Sonic-
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:07 PM
Well they're using adverts such as the one used above Sam L...

MartianJoeyWinson
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:48 PM
Right, thought I'd chuck my two penneth in.

I'm totally against fur. Totally against it. Basically because the animals are killed FOR their fur. But then people say "ooh, I bet you have leather shoes, you're a hypocrite". Yes I have leather shoes. Many pairs of.

But some people who say that may not know that the shampoo they use has lanolin in, if you check that up then would u know that some animal bi-product has gone into that aspirin you once took to cure that headache? Maybe they've drunk a bottle of wine, not knowing that animal rennet is used in over 99% of wine production. Same as cheese and onion crisps ;)

It's like, for instance... a couple who are rather "extremist" environmentalists who come in the shop where I work and decided to "help save the environment" by not taking a bag. He was wearing a plastic mac.

But... after all that bumph, fur is OBVIOUS. The animals are hunted for their FUR. Elephants are hunted for their IVORY etc. It's not a by-product, it's what they are killed for, to wear over someone's back. It's totally unnecessary, and it doesn't look good, I've gotta say Serena looks good in many things but not in fur.

It's just... wrong. Full stop. It is wrong.

-Sonic-
Dec 20th, 2002, 11:54 PM
Imagine if there were elephant farms where they are born in a tiny shed, raised in darkness in a tiny cage, then killed and their tusks lopped off and then the body is just chucked away or burned or whatever.

Thats exactly what happens to the fur animals.

harloo
Dec 21st, 2002, 12:26 AM
Are these the same fanatics that crash the Victoria secret fashion show? They looked like damn fools on that stage. Attacking celebrities is the only way they seem to be able to get any attention. Otherwise, people don't really care. I think maybe they would be better suited going after the fur industry itself. Celebrities will wear what they wan't and their's nothing they can do to change that.

CHOCO
Dec 21st, 2002, 12:51 AM
Sam L - great posts!!! :)

lokon - great post also. :) Though I disagree, I appreciate your sincere opinions.


I 'm not against PETA taking a stand on this issue that is near and dear to them. I'm just against the extreme actions they take that cross the line of decency. I support their right to enlighten the general public on why they feel it's wrong to wear animal skins and the treatment of animals as well.

I just hope PETA doesn't do anything wrong or extreme to the wrong person and be liable for it in the courts.

Perhaps PETA could arrange a meeting with Serena and discuss its position with her instead of harrassing her at every tourney or appearance.

Again, I respect everyone's opinion on this sensitive issue. :)

lokon
Dec 21st, 2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by Sam L
There are quieter ways to put these issues to rest. Maybe PETA should work on them.

Sorry, but quiet doesnt allow for dissemination of information to a large enough audience. Think about the civil rights movement with the massive amount of sit-ins MLKjr used, or the burning of bras during the women's lib. Both instances were seen as disruptive and Im sure many people were asking themselves, "I like the cause, but do they have to be so extreme?" Now, I know classifying PETA with the aforementioned instances is silly since it weighs human rights to those of animals, but Im just trying to draw up an analogy. Again, do you think people will take notice to a small card sent in the mail outlining the reasons not to purchase fur, or to a famous person getting crud tossed at them?

Choco - Thanks. I enjoy a nice civilized argument since it opens a wide array of opinions. I do believe though that PETA has contacted Serena, and it might be her lack of response to their inquiries which lead them to their current state of action.

Also putting on demonstrations against an intangible entity like the fur industry wont grab the necessary attention. Select famous individuals that decide to sport fur, and youve made the nightly news....

:) :D :)

brickhousesupporter
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:20 AM
This may seem like a silly question, but I am being sincere. What happens when they through red paint on someone's fur coat? Is that person sued for the value of the fur coat that is destroyed? I mean they cant just get off scott free without some kind of punishment.

harloo
Dec 21st, 2002, 03:45 AM
LOL. You cannot compare the civil rights movement, and women's liberation movement to PETA. I'm sorry but some of the methods they use are grotesque. Futhermore, they have been doing this for years and it seems nothing has changed. Celebrities still wear fur when they feel the need to do so. They get a few seconds of attention and then they fade away. If they really wan't to get their cause heard then they should organize grassroots style.

Also, lets face it anytime that you are dealing with big money then no matter what you do or say the MONEY will win out. The fur industry is a big one, and I really don't think that any government will want to lose big dollars protecting animals. I'm sorry, but that's just the reality of things. This world is corrupt and everyone's all about the almighty dollar, government officials included.

lokon
Dec 21st, 2002, 04:31 AM
brickhouse - There are legal actions that can be taken against people that throw paint on someone. However, the legal fees in prosecuting the person who committed the crime (notice how they cant specifcally claim PETA as a part of it) are quite large, and a sentence on something like that amounts to nothing more than a fine. Its much easier for this said person to go out and buy another fur if they so choose.

harloo - Notice that I qualified my comparison by saying it was silly in the first place. I was attempting to demonstrate an analogy of the statement "quieter ways" not the focus and aspect of the two movements. The way PETA goes about representing itself might be considered disgusting in your opinion, but I think the Pro-Life campaign tops the charts with some of the ads Ive been witness to. Yet, those same images are burned in your memory and could possibly make you or someone else think twice before picking up a piece of fur clothing, and isnt that what their intentions are about. This is free speech in its finest form and I will not heckle one group's method and praise another. You might be surprised to know that since its founding in 1980 fur sales have been cut in half, whether thats due in part to PETA or fashion industry leaders setting trends away from fur, I dont know, but you cant rule out the causal relationship that exists.

:) :D :)

persond
Dec 21st, 2002, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by lokon
brickhouse - There are legal actions that can be taken against people that throw paint on someone. However, the legal fees in prosecuting the person who committed the crime (notice how they cant specifcally claim PETA as a part of it) are quite large, and a sentence on something like that amounts to nothing more than a fine. Its much easier for this said person to go out and buy another fur if they so choose.

harloo - Notice that I qualified my comparison by saying it was silly in the first place. I was attempting to demonstrate an analogy of the statement "quieter ways" not the focus and aspect of the two movements. The way PETA goes about representing itself might be considered disgusting in your opinion, but I think the Pro-Life campaign tops the charts with some of the ads Ive been witness to. Yet, those same images are burned in your memory and could possibly make you or someone else think twice before picking up a piece of fur clothing, and isnt that what their intentions are about. This is free speech in its finest form and I will not heckle one group's method and praise another. You might be surprised to know that since its founding in 1980 fur sales have been cut in half, whether thats due in part to PETA or fashion industry leaders setting trends away from fur, I dont know, but you cant rule out the causal relationship that exists.

:) :D :)


:) I'll say it again, let them "run up on a Sista" who worked long and hard for her fur...guarantee you it won't be pretty!!!!
No one has the RIGHT to mar/deface or otherwise damage someone else's apparrel, and frankly, I think they should be "shot" if they do!!! A person has a right to protect and defend themselves against assualt and attack!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:09 AM
IF they want to "go after her" in a way that isn't going to harm her, good for them.

I don't support people wearing fur, for reasons that have already been covered numerous times. Not to mention the fact taht fur is ugly anways.

BasicTennis
Dec 21st, 2002, 08:17 AM
Serena, fur your own good please let go of those fur coats....you look bettah in catsuit.:drool:

Rocketta
Dec 21st, 2002, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by lokon
Rocketta - they do go after rappers, especially Puffy for the line of clothes he develops. Here is an article regarding that.

http://www.peta-online.org/news/0201/0201puffy.html



No where in that article did anyone say anything about them riding up a brotha? That's what I was talking about not about protests. Which has clearly shown that Puffy could care less. He and his momma still sport fur every time I see them. Anyway I think Chris Rock showed it best in his movie Down to Earth. When the maid, Wanda somebody, got paint thrown on her fur she took after them to beat their butts and she still wore her fur red paint and all.

They will run up on the wrong person doing that and it won't be pretty. I will never agree with terroristic tatics. That's what it is. They want to cause fear in celebs who wear fur and that to me is the definition of terror. Don't you think.

I also don't see their attempts working to well. I wish they would go after the industry instead of the easy rout and go after individuals wearing fur. That does not bring those dead animals back and it doesn't stop the "pick a number" from getting killed that day.

If they want to picket outside a tournament more power to them, if they want to spend the money buying tickets to go and sit in the stands more power to them but god help them they sit next to some Serena supporters.

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 02:20 AM
If some dodgy serial killer decided to make a skin suit out of Serena, I wonder if you'd all be defending him?

persond
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by JonBcn
If some dodgy serial killer decided to make a skin suit out of Serena, I wonder if you'd all be defending him?


:( YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS...!!!!!!:( :( :mad: :mad: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

harloo
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by JonBcn
If some dodgy serial killer decided to make a skin suit out of
Serena, I wonder if you'd all be defending him?

WTF, is your mind that perverted? This question is very ignorant.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Princess Fiona
Dec 22nd, 2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by persond
:) I'll say it again, let them "run up on a Sista" who worked long and hard for her fur...guarantee you it won't be pretty!!!!
No one has the RIGHT to mar/deface or otherwise damage someone else's apparrel, and frankly, I think they should be "shot" if they do!!! A person has a right to protect and defend themselves against assualt and attack!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Right!! You think they should be "shot"? :rolleyes: This is a pretty emotive issue (the fur trade is basically too barbaric for words) and people are going to feel strongly about this. I'm so disappointed in those who wear real fur - to me it suggests such a lack of understanding... No, I don't wear leather (or other animal products) or eat animals but you just cannot "compare" the two. I don't support any "extremist" acts (and I don't like having to use that word again, I think I must need a thesaurus for Christmas :o ;)) but you have to understand that people feel so strongly about this...

harloo
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:07 PM
These Peta fanatics better be careful. Running up on the wrong sista or brotha will definitely get them a beat down. LOL@Rocketta.

Infiniti2001
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:28 PM
If some dodgy serial killer decided to make a skin suit out of Serena, I wonder if you'd all be defending him?

PATHETIC :rolleyes: There are so many Lotts in this world it's unfuckingbelievable.

Infiniti2001
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:34 PM
These Peta fanatics better be careful. Running up on the wrong sista or brotha will definitely get them a beat down.

You bet.. These people know who they are harrassing.. They once made an issue over the View's Starr Jones wearing fur--- She told the world what she would do if anyone comes near her, and I know this woman was not joking... Do you think they 're still targeting her? NOT!

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by harloo
WTF, is your mind that perverted? This question is very ignorant.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Of course I'm not serious, my minds not that perverted. Besides it was the middle of the night and I was drunk. It was un unnecessary sick joke. A bit like wearing fur.

The funny thing about this thread is that I think a lot of people are defending the wearing of fur simply because one of their favourite people has been caught doing it.

Infiniti2001
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:41 PM
They say ignorance is bliss, right???

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:44 PM
Ignorance about what? It just stuns me that in 2002 people can still think that butchery for vanity's sake is acceptable.

Infiniti2001
Dec 22nd, 2002, 04:56 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that I think a lot of people are defending the wearing of fur simply because one of their favourite people has been caught doing it.

Horsepucky!!! I can't speak for others, but I will defend the rights of others all the time... My family and friends all think I am nuts, but I will even defend the KKK. I think they have a right to march where ever they wish (providing that the world see their faces of course):eek:
Peta and the anti-abortion movement have to understand that their scare tactics fail miserable all the time. Sooner or later they will bark up the wrong tree, and it ain't gonna be pretty...

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:30 PM
But how can you defend everybody but Peta?! They do some great work, and I applaud them. Of course there are those who go too far and do despicable or violent things - its sad, but most pressure groups are blighted by a few individuals whose protests go to far in order to attract attention - but their message is a good one and is educative.

-Sonic-
Dec 22nd, 2002, 05:31 PM
"I wish they would go after the industry instead of the easy rout and go after individuals wearing fur"

Famous people are extensions of the fahion industry. Famous people are paid to wear things... just look on the tennis court. Famous people know that if they go to an event, they will be photographed and people all over the world will comment on their outfits. That is what they and their designers want. They are walking advertisements 24/7. I can think of 5 magazines alone that me and my housemates read that contain best dressed lists, fashion victims lists etc, as we only read about 7 magazines between us. PETA are being sensible by focusing their attention on any and all famous people.

CC
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by JonBcn
Of course I'm not serious, my minds not that perverted. Besides it was the middle of the night and I was drunk. It was un unnecessary sick joke. A bit like wearing fur.

The funny thing about this thread is that I think a lot of people are defending the wearing of fur simply because one of their favourite people has been caught doing it.

Caught? She was on the "red carpet" in it. It's safe to say she wasn't hiding.

Rubylips
Dec 22nd, 2002, 06:30 PM
Well my freind"s Anna wears furs.To get back to Serena .They better hope Mr. Richard didn"t read this.We all heard want he said about anyone hurting his girl"s.If i was them, I would think again.I beleive ,this is a free country.

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:37 PM
But this is why I'm so disappointed with Serena. Yes, its a free country, but theres always gonna be some idiot doing something stupid, and using freedom of expression as his/her justification. But when the thing that they are doing is abhorrent, they need to be told.

Its just disappointing. Up to this point I have always been impressed with Serena's attitude, convictions and personality. She is fantastic role model, and incredibly important because of this. So its sad to see her doing something so abhorrent, thats all.

All you pro-fur choice people : do you also think bull-fighting, cock-fighting and fox hunting are acceptable pastimes? What about hacking the tusks off elephants in order to make a nice coffee table? Is it different if the elephants are bred in a factory like the minks that make fur coats?

harloo
Dec 22nd, 2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by JonBcn
Of course I'm not serious, my minds not that perverted. Besides it was the middle of the night and I was drunk. It was un unnecessary sick joke. A bit like wearing fur.

The funny thing about this thread is that I think a lot of people are defending the wearing of fur simply because one of their favourite people has been caught doing it.

Blame it on the liquour. Whatever. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I agree with freedom of expression/speech. However, what I hate is the usage of scare tactics, intimidation, and vandalism which is what PETA uses. The same can be said about the anti-abortion cults. They have no respect for other peoples views. It's you can't have an abortion, or we will blow your clinic up. Crazy. Like I said before, one of these PETA fanatics is gonna nut up on the wrong person and it won't be pretty.

JonBcn
Dec 22nd, 2002, 08:04 PM
I agree with you 100%, honestly. Thats nothing short of terrorism. All I'm saying is that PETA's message is a valid one.

Rocketta
Dec 22nd, 2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Sonic The Hedgehog
"I wish they would go after the industry instead of the easy rout and go after individuals wearing fur"

Famous people are extensions of the fahion industry. Famous people are paid to wear things... just look on the tennis court. Famous people know that if they go to an event, they will be photographed and people all over the world will comment on their outfits. That is what they and their designers want. They are walking advertisements 24/7. I can think of 5 magazines alone that me and my housemates read that contain best dressed lists, fashion victims lists etc, as we only read about 7 magazines between us. PETA are being sensible by focusing their attention on any and all famous people.

All Peta would have to do would be to go after magazines for promoting it and it would have a similar effect don't you think. I still say they know exactly who to run up on and who not to.

-Sonic-
Dec 22nd, 2002, 11:25 PM
i think most magazines would puke at the sight of fur.

"Topaz"
Dec 22nd, 2002, 11:53 PM
To those who are really knowledgeable on this subject:

How about wool? Is it ok?
I have some woollen clothes and I want to make sure I can wear them without being assaulted by some sheep lover.

All advices are welcome as to what to do. Thanks.

-Sonic-
Dec 23rd, 2002, 12:28 AM
You don't kill the sheep... you're just being ridiculous there.
My advice is lose the sarcasm.

"Topaz"
Dec 23rd, 2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Sonic The Hedgehog
You don't kill the sheep... you're just being ridiculous there.
My advice is lose the sarcasm. I kindly asked for advices from knowledgeable people, not a$$hole like you. I'm having a nice Xtmas so far. If you feel stinky, keep the $hit to yourself.

-Sonic-
Dec 23rd, 2002, 12:50 AM
I am as knowledgeable as the next person I'm sure. And you were being ridiculous, so don't even try it. I seem to recall a thread written by you talking about 'december being the month of peace on the board'. Glad to see you're keeping that up, "a$$hole".

Sheep are sheared, one reason being so they don't get uncomfortably hot in the summer. Their wool is then utilised. The sheep stay happy enough and alive, and then they grow new wool later on to cope with the colder weather. The sheep are used until old age, and their offspring would be used for the same reason.

This is compared to say, mink fur gathering practices. The minks are bred in not nice conditions en masse, and then are killed for their fur. 100 animals for 1 coat? Not good.

If you can't see the difference, I think you need some help. My advice then would be to get some remedial education.

"Topaz"
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:08 AM
Why couldn't you give a straight answer, bonehead. You thought you could capitalize on my offer of a peaceful December. Next time you have venon to spit out, be careful. The world will be much nicer if you decide to swallow your own crap.

-Sonic-
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:18 AM
No venom here darlin.... You wanted to start something asking a immature question. When someone called you on it you started with the insults. Now go board up your windows in case some sheep lover tries to nick the cardigan your grandma knitted you... I wouldn't want you to lose that, it makes u look so pretty.

"Topaz"
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:26 AM
Now you're showing some wit! That's an improvement. Keep it up, that will help clear up your chest.

-Sonic-
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:30 AM
If only you had some with ur question in the first place! Or any sincerity in it!

Back on topic anyone?

"Topaz"
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:37 AM
Well, you need some additional improvement before you can see it. All in all, I hope you learnt not to be careless when you have the impulse to swing around.

Irish
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Sonic The Hedgehog
You don't kill the sheep... you're just being ridiculous there.
My advice is lose the sarcasm.
I agree. :D

Irish
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by TennisPower
Why couldn't you give a straight answer, bonehead. You thought you could capitalize on my offer of a peaceful December. Next time you have venon to spit out, be careful. The world will be much nicer if you decide to swallow your own crap.
So much for peace. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p :p :p Showing your true colors?

harloo
Dec 23rd, 2002, 03:28 AM
ROTFLMAO@this silly argument. That's all you had to do is answer the question Sonic. LOL. So sensitive about NOTHING.

Futhermore, I guess if you are a Animal fanatic you take offense to the slaughtering of them. I understand. More ribs and beef for me though.lol

I use to hunt animals with my great grandfather when I was younger. He made me go, even when I didn't want to. We hunted deer, fox, possum, etc. I thought it was disgusting at first but as we kept hunting it became normal. Of course I wouldn't hunt today. I will just go get some meat, and if I wanted a fur or mink coat(which I have no need for) I would go right to the mall.

I think Rocketta was right, that maybe PETA should go a different route. Attacking celebrities only gives them a few seconds of attention. I think what they need to do is challenge advertisement or something. As long as their is a market for mink and fur, animals will die.

It's funny, because I went to a banquet last night. My boss was wearing a long mink coat, and as she was talking that's all I kept thinking about is if a PETA member was gonna come out of the bushes in the parking lot and red paint her ass. lol.

This is an interesting topic, because even while we were talking I kept thinking of this disscusion. Well, that's my 2cents. Peace.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 23rd, 2002, 04:09 AM
I fail to see why PETA should use a different approach.

Sending out little fliers that are going to be thrown out and not read by 99% of the people who receive them, is not going to do the trick.

If targetting high profile celebrities is going to get them attention - provided they do not endanger said celebrities - than I fully support their tactics.

gentenaire
Dec 23rd, 2002, 10:28 AM
Disturbing a fashion show is considered extreme? Wow! There's not much a person can do, is there?

What the ALF is doing, that's extreme! As much as I hate Mc Donalds, burning down Mc Donalds isn't something I can approve of.

For all those who say a quieter approach is needed, can you give me ONE example of a good quiet approach that would actually be successful? Wearing fur is all about vanity, fashion, showing off, so that's where you should hurt them. When they're showing off with fur, make them fall from their pedestal.

Their tactics are working! A year ago I'd never heard of PETA, I do know what they are now. I don't agree with everything they stand for, I'm not a vegetarian, I do wear leather shoes, but fur? No thanks.

geoepee
Dec 23rd, 2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Sonic The Hedgehog
You don't kill the sheep... you're just being ridiculous there.
My advice is lose the sarcasm.

For those that don't know, millions of sheep are killed in the process of making wool products like sweaters and such. Within weeks of their birth, their ears would have been hole-punched, tails chopped off, and the males would be castrated while fully conscious. Extremely high rates of mortality are considered 'normal'. 20-40% of lambs die before the age of 8 weeks, 8 million+ mature sheep die every year from disease, exposure, or neglect. Many people believe shearing helps animals that would otherwise be hot. But in order to avoid losing any wool, ranchers shear sheep before they would naturally shed their winter coats, resulting in millions of sheep deaths from exposure to the cold.
-----

What I say is that PETA should harrass every single tennis player on both tours for wearing tennis shoes. Unless they are made of only cotton and rubber. And any player that has the nerve to play with natural gut strings should be harrassed also. Not much different from Serena wearing fur.

Princess Fiona
Dec 23rd, 2002, 01:28 PM
I don't wear wool but you cannot compare wearing wool and wearing fur! I think it's sad that some people in here think it's okay to do something as hideous as wear fur... :sad: One of my New Year wishes would be for the fur trade to just die!!

And harloo, why is this a "silly argument"? This issue means a lot to a lot of people...

Halardfan
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:42 PM
Comparing anti-fur people to anti-abortion people is just silly...indeed its the anti-abortion people who more typically would be wearing the fur coats!

Most people are against fur, whoever there fave player might be...

If you wear a fur coat, you know there is a lot of baggage that comes with it, you make that choice for yourself, and must know that criticism will (and should) follow.

I don't support harassing people...but strong crticism on this issue is enitrely justified, whoever the subject.

The Crow
Dec 23rd, 2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Chris Ba
Comparing anti-fur people to anti-abortion people is just silly...indeed its the anti-abortion people who more typically would be wearing the fur coats!


Could you explain the last bit, please??

Rubylips
Dec 23rd, 2002, 03:37 PM
Well they should go to the ICE SKATING Contest , THEY SEE ALL THE SKATE"S MANGER"S IN FULL LENGTH FURS.after that the skaters put on their.They kill 10 birds at one stone.

JonBcn
Dec 23rd, 2002, 04:43 PM
You can't beat a nice bit of polyester, imo.

CC
Dec 23rd, 2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by TennisPower
To those who are really knowledgeable on this subject:

How about wool? Is it ok?
I have some woollen clothes and I want to make sure I can wear them without being assaulted by some sheep lover.

All advices are welcome as to what to do. Thanks.

Soooo ... you were saying about being assaulted by some sheep lover ... :o

Princess Fiona
Dec 23rd, 2002, 05:36 PM
Maybe the fashion designers could start making bubble wrap coats or something! Imagine the fun you'd have sitting next to someone on a train and surreptitiously "popping" them... ;)

Sorry, I think I am getting weird... :rolleyes: ;)

CC
Dec 23rd, 2002, 06:30 PM
A question: What about Beaver coats? Do people still wear them and I assume they are cheaper than fur, right?

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Halardfan
Dec 23rd, 2002, 10:02 PM
Its as simple as this...everyone surely agrees that animals should be granted a measure of rights...how one treat ones pets for example IS a matter for the law, surely no one argue it shouldn't be...so it becomes a question of where we draw the lines...as society, often painfully, becomes more enlightened, I hope that fur becomes a thing of the past, along with hunting for sport.

I don't care that it happens to be Serena Williams in this case...whoever it was Id feel the same...indeed if were my own fave, JHD, Id be MORE disappointed.

Being anti-fur is not the extreme, it is the prevailing view, and the progressive view.

As for the supermodels who've been hassled...many of them signed up to an high profile anti-fur campaign a few years back...but then enitrely gave up on principle, sold out, and wear fur now. They deserve to be brought to account for their hypocrisy.