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View Full Version : What happens when a gay couple walks through a gay unfriendly neighbourhood?


Elwin.
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:00 AM
Short clip of 3 minutes. Y'all may not understand the comments but the nasty looks etc. say it all. Filmed in Belgium, so comments in Dutch/French. Unfortunately this happens everywhere in Europe etc.
I'm not trying to bash groups. (Muslims in this case). Want to raise a bit more awareness. This is Belgium, a country that has same sex marriage.
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6429322/6dddcda1/undercover_geweld_tegen_homo_s.html

Gagsquet
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:10 AM
Teens are teens :shrug:

ce
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:21 PM
When child shouts HOMOS hahahaha. But really, this is quite sad. But if you would try that here in Serbia you would probably get beaten to death o_O

Olórin
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:31 PM
There are people of ignorance, bigoted and homophobes all over the world - in every single country. It's very sad to encounter but this is the world we live in.

Although these kind of people disgust me, I try to remind myself from time to time that I'm not perfect and that everyone including myself has their prejudices. Some people's prejudices are more harmful than others though.

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:05 PM
Elwin, let's call it exactly what it is. Immigrants in Europe have created a culture of homophobia that didn't exist a few years ago. Yes, there are nationalized homophobes in these countries. But the same thing has been happening in Canada. Immigrants from Middle Eastern countries, immigrants from Eastern Europe and Africa, naturalized citizens from cultures that are homophobic, they have actually made things worse and more dangerous for gays in countries that were previously very pro-gay and accepting.

We need to call things what they are.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Is this just an experiment in which the two blonde guys are just pretending to be homos or what? It takes a hell lot of guts to do that tbh. :worship:

and not surprising with the reactions, some may be disgusted (usually the conservative ones), some may be laughing (who are immature) and some just look as if they're still in the 1950s.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Oh hey and Chrono, where are you?:oh:

The Dawntreader
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:26 PM
Although these kind of people disgust me, I try to remind myself from time to time that I'm not perfect and that everyone including myself has their prejudices. Some people's prejudices are more harmful than others though.

And most people's prejudices are incredibly unfounded. That is basically the crux of homophobic/racial prejudices.

Chris 84
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:56 PM
Elwin, let's call it exactly what it is. Immigrants in Europe have created a culture of homophobia that didn't exist a few years ago. Yes, there are nationalized homophobes in these countries. But the same thing has been happening in Canada. Immigrants from Middle Eastern countries, immigrants from Eastern Europe and Africa, naturalized citizens from cultures that are homophobic, they have actually made things worse and more dangerous for gays in countries that were previously very pro-gay and accepting.

We need to call things what they are.

if we need to call things the way they are, then i'll call your post the way that i see it. pure garbage.

i'm not denying that people from certain backgrounds (muslim, african, eastern european) may be more likely to have ignorant attitudes towards homosexuality, but to say that immigrants have "created a culture of homophobia that didn't exist a few years ago" is utter nonsense. for a start, political parties are now MORE likely to support gay rights, rather than less likely, because the political backlash won't be so great as it was some years ago when (i'm sure you would argue) there was less immigration. secondly, calling western countries "pro-gay" and "accepting" when barely any of them have until recently acknowledged homosexual relationships as legally equal with heterosexual ones is bizarre. and finally, picking on immigrants to these countries is insane, given the attitude of Christian churches towards homosexuality. it is always seen as a sin, often viewed as an "illness" and people in positions of power in charitable Christian organisations (eg salvation Army)have implicitly called for gays to be wiped out.

your post makes it sound as though you fall into the ridiculous category of person who blames immigrants for every problem the world has.

The Crow
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:13 PM
Is this just an experiment in which the two blonde guys are just pretending to be homos or what? It takes a hell lot of guts to do that tbh. :worship:


They're both gay, but not partners. One is a famous radio presenter in Belgium, the other one is head of a gay organization (if I remember correctly). It was done for a report in a Belgian TV program.

Recently, there was another experiment where a Belgian woman who was walking around in a mini skirt was filmed. She also was the victim of several nasty remarks (mainly by immigrants, sad to say).

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:32 PM
if we need to call things the way they are, then i'll call your post the way that i see it. pure garbage.

i'm not denying that people from certain backgrounds (muslim, african, eastern european) may be more likely to have ignorant attitudes towards homosexuality, but to say that immigrants have "created a culture of homophobia that didn't exist a few years ago" is utter nonsense. for a start, political parties are now MORE likely to support gay rights, rather than less likely, because the political backlash won't be so great as it was some years ago when (i'm sure you would argue) there was less immigration. That has nothing to do with immigrants being pro-gay. That has to do with nationalized citizens becoming much more educated on the issue. It also doesn't have much to do with social attitudes. Hate crimes are increasing in Scandinavian countries, in countries such as Belgium and Austria, in the UK, and the biggest drive in the numbers are immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, and naturalized citizens raised in these cultures.

That is the reality.


secondly, calling western countries "pro-gay" and "accepting" when barely any of them have until recently acknowledged homosexual relationships as legally equal with heterosexual ones is bizarre. Many European countries, most of them, have civil partnerships or marriage equality and several for several years. Pro-gay may be the incorrect term but what is a fact is, these countries' governments tend to support gay rights, and the majority of citizens do also. Yet hate crimes are increasing. That is not a coincidence.

and finally, picking on immigrants to these countries is insane, given the attitude of Christian churches towards homosexuality. it is always seen as a sin, often viewed as an "illness" and people in positions of power in charitable Christian organisations (eg salvation Army)have implicitly called for gays to be wiped out. Conservatives are generally horrible too, of course. We all know that. In France and the UK and their countries' marriage battles, the religious fundamentalists have said disgusting things.

But this was about hate crimes and hate crimes in these countries are rising due to immigrants from conservative nations. Am I calling all immigrants homophobic? No. Am I saying they being immigrants is the issue? No. Their culture is the issue. The culture of fundamentalists is the issue. Homophobic culture is homophobic culture and needs to be destroyed.

Chris 84
Dec 17th, 2012, 07:10 PM
That has nothing to do with immigrants being pro-gay. That has to do with nationalized citizens becoming much more educated on the issue. It also doesn't have much to do with social attitudes. Hate crimes are increasing in Scandinavian countries, in countries such as Belgium and Austria, in the UK, and the biggest drive in the numbers are immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, and naturalized citizens raised in these cultures.

That is the reality.


Many European countries, most of them, have civil partnerships or marriage equality and several for several years. Pro-gay may be the incorrect term but what is a fact is, these countries' governments tend to support gay rights, and the majority of citizens do also. Yet hate crimes are increasing. That is not a coincidence.

Conservatives are generally horrible too, of course. We all know that. In France and the UK and their countries' marriage battles, the religious fundamentalists have said disgusting things.

But this was about hate crimes and hate crimes in these countries are rising due to immigrants from conservative nations. Am I calling all immigrants homophobic? No. Am I saying they being immigrants is the issue? No. Their culture is the issue. The culture of fundamentalists is the issue. Homophobic culture is homophobic culture and needs to be destroyed.

i'm not saying that immigrants are pro-gay and that's why society in general is more tolerant, but the fact is that being gay is more accepted practically everywhere in the 21st century than ever before. i don't have the facts and figures, and doubtless there have been homophobic crimes carred out by immigrants, but while we aren't in an ideal state yet, i simply do not see the "culture of homophobia" which you claim that immigrants have established. don't get me wrong, there is a general culture of homophobia to an extent, but i don't see immigrants adding to that.

there is, however, also a growing anti-immigration culture, and in the wake of 9/11 it isn't uncommon to hear about muslims (or sikhs cos people are too stupid to tell them apart from muslims.....or brazilians whom the police decide look like muslims) and eastern europeans being attacked for no reason. hate crimes like this are up as well, and with the economic crisis and the threat of extreme right wing parties gaining ground, i'd imagine that racism and anti-immigration feeling accounts for more assaults, etc than homophobia.

i don't disagree with you that homophobic culture needs to be destroyed, but that's going to take time. sexism and racism have existed for centuries and still haven't been destroyed. things have improved, but they are still there. essentially, ignorance is the enemy, but i just think that while we have important institutons which still enjoy throwing around words like "perverse" "disgusting" "unnatural" and "evil" together with homosexuality, then it is all too simplistic to blame other cultures.

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 07:22 PM
i'm not saying that immigrants are pro-gay and that's why society in general is more tolerant, but the fact is that being gay is more accepted practically everywhere in the 21st century than ever before. i don't have the facts and figures, and doubtless there have been homophobic crimes carred out by immigrants, but while we aren't in an ideal state yet, i simply do not see the "culture of homophobia" which you claim that immigrants have established. don't get me wrong, there is a general culture of homophobia to an extent, but i don't see immigrants adding to that. I didn't say immigrants are the reason for homophobia or have created a homophobic culture in these Western world countries, I said immigrants are the biggest concern in terms of aggressive hatred against gay people to the point of hate assaults and harassment. Conservative Christians are horrendous but they aren't the ones committing hate crimes by and large. Most countries have definitely become increasingly pro-gay, but that's due to naturalized citizens becoming more accepting, and hate crimes are rising even with this increase of acceptance.

there is, however, also a growing anti-immigration culture, and in the wake of 9/11 it isn't uncommon to hear about muslims (or sikhs cos people are too stupid to tell them apart from muslims.....or brazilians whom the police decide look like muslims) and eastern europeans being attacked for no reason. hate crimes like this are up as well, and with the economic crisis and the threat of extreme right wing parties gaining ground, i'd imagine that racism and anti-immigration feeling accounts for more assaults, etc than homophobia.Homophobic hate crimes happen on a level at least 2X more than other forms of hate crimes. Yes, there is a shit ton of racism and anti-immigration hate crimes and that's tragic and ridiculous, but homophobia is different because it's still given somewhat of a pass due to religious beliefs and traditional moral/cultural codes. We're still progressing past the idea it's OK to be homophobic.

i don't disagree with you that homophobic culture needs to be destroyed, but that's going to take time. sexism and racism have existed for centuries and still haven't been destroyed. things have improved, but they are still there. essentially, ignorance is the enemy, but i just think that while we have important institutons which still enjoy throwing around words like "perverse" "disgusting" "unnatural" and "evil" together with homosexuality, then it is all too simplistic to blame other cultures.I agree. They're all the problem. All of them, each and every entity out there that promotes hatred against our community. But I was talking about hate crimes. I don't want you to believe I was saying immigrants are the ONLY people promoting gay hate. Absolutely not. But hate crimes are an issue that is increasing in many countries, and that is primarily due to immigrants and citizens raised in cultures that are homophobic.

olivero
Dec 17th, 2012, 08:44 PM
It's ironic that those reactions were from the Middle East immigrants, while for example in Turkey two guys walking on the street holding hands isn't anything unusual. I know those societies are anti-gay but still it's weird.

Helen Lawson
Dec 17th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I just hope in 150 years the current crop of gays isn't still feasting on this for their own gain. It's discrimination against me, I'll own it and it belongs to no one else.

Julian.
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:28 PM
This is the real one in Portland, USA. They got attacked :tears: and people saw them and nobody helped.

GRYtdgCMtn0

Dav.
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:29 PM
The Bystander Effect is a powerful thing :o

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:44 PM
That happened like a year and a half ago. That really hurt me when that happened. There was a march after that, with like 100000+ people marching to end hate crimes in the city since there had been a spate of several in Portland. They also created a queer patrol. Or basically, LGBT persons and straight allies who would act as de-facto security guards that would be on the streets at night protecting LGBT citizens from potential hate. And it's worked since Portland has seen a decrease in hate crimes this year, at least that's what the numbers showed a few months ago from that time last year.

Hate crimes in the USA have gone down. That's the sign that LGBT citizens are starting to gain real acceptance.

Dominic
Dec 17th, 2012, 11:27 PM
This is the real one in Portland, USA. They got attacked :tears: and people saw them and nobody helped.

GRYtdgCMtn0

:fiery:

I'd have probably slugged the attackers..

delicatecutter
Dec 18th, 2012, 02:59 PM
I would have started running as fast as I could. But I'm not big on PDA in general.

Dominic
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:02 PM
I would have started running as fast as I could. But I'm not big on PDA in general.

what's PDA and why running?

Julian.
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:06 PM
what's PDA and why running?

Public display of affection :lol:

Dominic
Dec 18th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Oh I'm not necessarely a big fan of that either :lol:

Helen Lawson
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Oh I'm not necessarely a big fan of that either :lol:

It depends if the guy is cute or not.

Julian.
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:45 PM
It depends if the guy is cute or not.

:sobbing:

Flavia P.
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:48 PM
I don't mind PDA at all. I find it cut to see two people in love/lust with one another :D

debopero
Dec 19th, 2012, 01:12 AM
if we need to call things the way they are, then i'll call your post the way that i see it. pure garbage.

i'm not denying that people from certain backgrounds (muslim, african, eastern european) may be more likely to have ignorant attitudes towards homosexuality, but to say that immigrants have "created a culture of homophobia that didn't exist a few years ago" is utter nonsense. for a start, political parties are now MORE likely to support gay rights, rather than less likely, because the political backlash won't be so great as it was some years ago when (i'm sure you would argue) there was less immigration. secondly, calling western countries "pro-gay" and "accepting" when barely any of them have until recently acknowledged homosexual relationships as legally equal with heterosexual ones is bizarre. and finally, picking on immigrants to these countries is insane, given the attitude of Christian churches towards homosexuality. it is always seen as a sin, often viewed as an "illness" and people in positions of power in charitable Christian organisations (eg salvation Army)have implicitly called for gays to be wiped out.

your post makes it sound as though you fall into the ridiculous category of person who blames immigrants for every problem the world has.

Preach.

Lucemferre
Dec 19th, 2012, 01:26 AM
It's ironic that those reactions were from the Middle East immigrants, while for example in Turkey two guys walking on the street holding hands isn't anything unusual. I know those societies are anti-gay but still it's weird.

:spit: What street is that?

Dominic
Dec 19th, 2012, 01:27 AM
It depends if the guy is cute or not.

I mean I do't tend to do it myself, It comes more naturally to me in my privacy

SilverPersian
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:30 AM
:spit: What street is that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/01/weekinreview/01basics.html?_r=0

dybbuk
Dec 19th, 2012, 05:50 AM
Did you really just post one of your normal anti-Muslim articles where the Muslims are trying to do exactly what the Christians have already done? Ok. I'm confused as to where you stand with this one. I'm not sure if it's anti-Muslim or anti-gay....

dybbuk
Dec 19th, 2012, 06:13 AM
Do you realize that Muslims are more anti-gay than Christians are?

You're neither Muslim nor gay, so I suggest you shush on groups you know nothing about. There are nations in the world trying to pass bills BASED ON CHRISTIANITY that put gays to death. So don't even play the "Muslims kill gays!" card, because so do Christians, my dear Christian friend. Secondly, how does your article support your argument at all? Muslims there are doing the exact same thing Christians have already done. That's why your article is confusing, because if you're using it to criticize Muslims like you usually do, you're by extension criticizing Christians for the same thing. Though you have double standards and no self-awareness, so you likely don't mean to do that at all.

Williamsser
Dec 19th, 2012, 06:17 AM
You're neither Muslim nor gay, so I suggest you shush on groups you know nothing about. There are nations in the world trying to pass bills BASED ON CHRISTIANITY that put gays to death. So don't even play the "Muslims kill gays!" card, because so do Christians, my dear Christian friend. Secondly, how does your article support your argument at all? Muslims there are doing the exact same thing Christians have already done. That's why your article is confusing, because if you're using it to criticize Muslims like you usually do, you're by extension criticizing Christians for the same thing. Though you have double standards and no self-awareness, so you likely don't mean to do that at all.

It's hypocritical of you to bash Christians for being anti-gay, yet remain silent on Muslims' anti-gay stance.

dybbuk
Dec 19th, 2012, 06:19 AM
It's hypocritical of you to bash Christians for being anti-gay, yet remain silent on Muslims' anti-gay stance.

Lmao you are actually an idiot. It would be hypocritical if I didn't criticize homophobic Muslims, but I do. So I'm not. You have no argument. There are both Christians and Muslims all over the world who hate gays enough to kill them. Don't play games with me saying I can't criticize Christians because you think Muslims are worse. The disgusting Christian groups in the US who have been behind all the violent laws against gays in Africa are every bit as bad as Muslims who create violent laws against gays in the Middle East, but you of course will never admit to it because you're straight, Christian, and don't care.

Bart
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:24 PM
It's ironic that those reactions were from the Middle East immigrants, while for example in Turkey two guys walking on the street holding hands isn't anything unusual. I know those societies are anti-gay but still it's weird.

Actually they come from North Africa (Morocco mainly). Moroccan boys will always find a reason to approach you. Whenever I see a group of Morrocan guys gathering together, I walk in a big circle around them just to avoid getting into any kind of trouble...