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Crunchy Booboo
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:07 AM
Yahweh, from the Holy Bible.


"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”'



Just curious.

*JR*
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:10 AM
Hard to say. :tape:


(Literally this time, I'm an agnostic). ;)

Julian.
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:12 AM
Hard to say. Probably no :D

KournikovaFan91
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:17 AM
Hard to say, like JR I'm agnostic, so I'm on the fence about this.

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:19 AM
No. The concept of God is the existence of a single divine entity that permanently exists. These things go against my fundamental worldview as I don't believe anything emotional, psychological or physical permanently exists nor do I think that there is anything that makes something single entity uniquely existing on its own. So no I don't believe in a God.

But I do read the Tanakh and Christian Bible sometimes.

Doully
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Not even in the slightest.

Wert.
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hard to say. :tape:


(Literally this time, I'm an agnostic). ;)



Same.

SVK
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:08 AM
Hard to say is really a good choice here:p I donīt believe in a God as a person or something like that. I was in a catholic grammar school and even there the first thing they said is that Bible is a book written in symbols. Almost nothing happened exactly like itīs written there, itīs a story about Earth evolution and things which happened in the past written in different (symbolic) form. However, itīs true that things here are too much complicated to be caused by a pure coincidence. For example I was once thinking about how itīs actually possible to aware myself. I mean, did you think about how did you come to your body and how itīs possible that you are literally conserved in your body till the end of your life? This is really an important thing because it makes you feel that you actually have some kind of "soul" or sth like that. Even Einstein said that the energy of your body after the dead canīt just disappear. Itīs really interesting and fascinaiting how some things work. So, the summary - I donīt believe in a God as a person like we are, but I do believe in some kind of "mysterious energy" if I can say it like that.

Brooklyn90
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:11 AM
No, and I get reminded of that every time there is such sadness and tragedy in the world. What kind of god would allow so many innocent people to suffer?! 20 innocent kids under the age of 10 killed today! What is the reason for that? What kind of god would allow that to happen.

Off the soap box now :)

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Almost nothing happened exactly like itīs written there, itīs a story about Earth evolution and things which happened in the past written in different (symbolic) form.

It's very much a historical record also. But the creation story being a symbol for evolution is probably a modern Christian spin since people at that time would not have understood evolution.

Crunchy Booboo
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:27 AM
No, and I get reminded of that every time there is such sadness and tragedy in the world. What kind of god would allow so many innocent people to suffer?! 20 innocent kids under the age of 10 killed today! What is the reason for that? What kind of god would allow that to happen.

Off the soap box now :)


I think you're confusing God with Satan.


"We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." - 1 John 5:19

"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." - 2 Corinthians 4:4

Volcana
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Even allowing for being dumbed down for human consumption, I can't believe in a God that simplistic.

Gagsquet
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Believing in a superior force is fine. Not my case but it makes sense.
Follow instructions of books like Bible and Coran doesn't make any.


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Mynarco
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:38 AM
I was baptised when I was a baby. Not a keen churchgoer, but hey I've got no choice.

That said, I'm not against people believing in God as long as they can get something positive from it.

Williamsser
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:40 AM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

NoppaNoppa
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:40 AM
No. But I used to... Brainwashed for 3-4 years ...Yeah,no...Someone over 6 still believes in that shit?

Gagsquet
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:51 AM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

:lol: funniest shit I have heard today. Keep them coming.


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The Dawntreader
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:55 AM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

So? I've seen that on a hangover.

dybbuk
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:57 AM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

Including gay people. So does that mean gay people don't get sent directly to Hell?? I'm confused now, Williamser. :tears:

Williamsser
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:58 AM
:lol: funniest shit I have heard today. Keep them coming.


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See for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience


Return from Tomorrow by George G. Ritchie with Elizabeth Sherrill (1978). George G. Ritchie held positions as president of the Richmond Academy of General Practice; chairman of the Department of Psychiatry of Towers Hospital; and founder and president of the Universal Youth Corps, Inc. He lived in Virginia. At the age of twenty, George Ritchie died in an army hospital. Nine minutes later he returned to life. Ritchie's story was the first contact Raymond Moody (who was studying at the University of Virginia, as an undergraduate in Philosophy, at the time) had with NDEs. It inspired Moody to investigate over 150 cases of near-death experiences, in his book Life After Life, and two other books that followed.

Embraced by the Light by Betty Eadie (1992). One of the most detailed near-death experiences on record.

Saved by the Light by Dannion Brinkley. Brinkley's experience documents one of the most complete near death experiences, in terms of core experience and additional phenomena from the NDE scale. Brinkley claims to have been clinically dead for 28 minutes and taken to a hospital morgue, but that claim and other claims by him are disputed.

Placebo by Howard Pittman (1980). A detailed record of Pittman's near-death experience.

The Darkness of God by John Wren-Lewis (1985), Bulletin of the Australian Institute for Psychical Research No 5. An account of the far-reaching effects of his NDE after going through the death process several times in one night.

Two have associated their experiences with their decision to join the Bahá'í Faith. Reinee Pasarow has presented her experiences and an extended talk which was filmed Part 1, Part2, with a partial transcript, analyzed from a religious point of view in a commentary and analyzed as part of the paper The Exploration of Life After Death. Pasarow was interviewed by Kenneth Ring. The second is Ricky Bradshaw whose story has been reviewed in several books.[99][100][101]

Anita Moorjani, an ethnic Indian woman from Hong Kong, experienced a truly remarkable NDE which has been documented on the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) website as one of the most exceptional accounts on their archives. She had end-stage cancer and on February 2, 2006, doctors told her family that she only had a few hours to live. Following her NDE, Anita experienced a remarkable total recovery of her health.[102]

Goldie Hawn, while giving a speech at the Buell Theater in Denver, Colorado, reflected upon her near-death experience. When she was younger, and starting out as an actress, she and a group of friends were in a severe car crash together. While she was unconscious, she remembers looking over herself while the paramedics were trying to revive her. She also mentioned seeing a bright light and being told it was not her time soon before she awoke.

Kiki Carter, a.k.a. Kimberli Wilson, an environmental activist and singer/songwriter, reported a near-death experience in 1983. The day after the experience, her mother, Priscilla Greenwood, encouraged her to write it down. Priscilla Greenwood published the story in September 1983 in a local metaphysical journal. For 24 hours after the experience, Kimberli had an aftervision which was a catalyst for her interest in quantum physics and holograms.[103]

90 Minutes in Heaven by Don Piper, is Piper's account of his own near-death experience. EMTs on the scene determined Piper had been killed instantly after a tractor-trailer had swerved into his lane, crushing his car. Piper survived, however, and later claimed that he saw loved ones and friends as well as magnificent light; he felt a sense of pure peace. Piper had a very difficult and painful recovery, undergoing 34 surgeries.[104]

Heaven Is for Real by Todd Burpo, is a father's account of his son, Colton, and Colton's trip to heaven and back. After discovering that Colton's appendix has ruptured, he was rushed to the hospital. Unconscious, Colton alleges to have met Jesus, God, his great-grandfather whom he had never met, and his older sister lost in a miscarriage.[105]

Parallel Universes, a Memoir from the Edges of Space and Time by Linda Morabito Meyer is a NASA scientist's account of several near death experiences at the hands of her parents and William Franklin Mosley of the Temple of the More Abundant Life in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. The author claimed that during these experiences, she visited Heaven, saw Jesus, and was in the presence of God.[106]

Eben Alexander, M.D., born December, 1953, author of Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife, which made The New York Times Best Seller list for nonfiction.[107]

HippityHop
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:00 AM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

The problem is that there is a huge difference between being almost dead and dead.


But I wonder what people mean when they say they don't believe in God but they believe in a "higher power" or they believe in some "spiritual force" in the universe. :shrug:

Of course some fool made the argument to me once that oxygen is a higher power. :rolleyes:

Gagsquet
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:03 AM
But I wonder what people mean when they say they don't believe in God but they believe in a "higher power" or they believe in some "spiritual force" in the universe. :shrug:

Of course some fool made the argument to me once that oxygen is a higher power. :rolleyes:

You excel at being wrong :worship:


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Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:13 AM
But I wonder what people mean when they say they don't believe in God but they believe in a "higher power" or they believe in some "spiritual force" in the universe. :shrug:


It means they want to believe in a God but not the God/s that people have thought of already.

HippityHop
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:16 AM
You excel at being wrong :worship:


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What are you, 12? :confused: You make no contribution to the discussion but you're good as being....

HippityHop
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:18 AM
It means they want to believe in a God but not the God/s that people have thought of already.

In other words it's a CYA (cover your ass) positon. :)

dybbuk
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:21 AM
In other words it's a CYA (cover your ass) positon. :)

No. :shrug: It means they believe in something, but they don't believe this something has revealed itself to human beings and/or we have no way of comprehending it. I don't subscribe to this myself, but this is my understanding of it. I don't see how this isn't a reasonable thought, as reasonable as most other thoughts on the subject.

Gagsquet
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:21 AM
What are you, 12? :confused: You make no contribution to the discussion but you're good as being....

I made my point in my first post. Can you read?


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Doully
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:25 AM
So? I've seen that on a hangover.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltli98n9YE1qzy4n9.gif

SilverPersian
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:31 AM
For all intents and purposes, no.

I can't disprove the existence of God, so technically I guess I'm in the agnostic category. But on a daily basis I live like there is no God.

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:37 AM
For all intents and purposes, no.

I can't disprove the existence of God, so technically I guess I'm in the agnostic category. But on a daily basis I live like there is no God.
Why do you have to disprove it?
The onus should be on the one who came up with the theory to prove it.

SVK
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:44 AM
The problem is that there is a huge difference between being almost dead and dead.


Thatīs true, near death experiences are possible, but it is still not the same as being dead. The thing is that if someone imagines/sees something, he must be still interacted with his brain and senses. When Iīm sleeping I also imagine some things, doesnīt mean Iīm almost dead, so NDEs could be also some kind of brain reaction. The question is what happens when you are really dead. Without your body/brain/senses you wouldnīt be aware of yourself most probably even if there is some "soul" or not, but I also canīt imagine, how can "my self" just disappear. Any kind of energy canīt just disappear or appear. What makes me think about another question - how the energy which caused the so called "big bang" would appear. And how itīs possible that it all exploded suddenly. Thatīs what Iīm calling the "mysterious force". I donīt think it was any kind of being which came and decided to start it all, thatīs why Iīm calling it "mysterious power/force" and not God. Donīt know if itīs like that with other people using this term.

Anyway this kind of topic is really sensitive. Different people have different opinions on this. Scientists might have answers for similar question, but donīt forget that not every thing proved by them is always 100% true. And such thing as the beggining of the universe is definitely not a thing people could be 100% sure about. And so they canīt be sure about what exactly is happening after the death. Iīm afraid if someone would argue about otherīs opinion the debate would go the same way as Peak vs. Peak threads in GM (to nowhere).

Novichok
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:46 AM
I can't prove that there isn't a miniature, invisible, nonphysical unicorn living in my brain. But I'm not agnostic about its existence.

SilverPersian
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Why do you have to disprove it?
The onus should be on the one who came up with the theory to prove it.

I don't disagree with this :)

HippityHop
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:57 AM
Thatīs true, near death experiences are possible, but it is still not the same as being dead. The thing is that if someone imagines/sees something, he must be still interacted with his brain and senses. When Iīm sleeping I also imagine some things, doesnīt mean Iīm almost dead, so NDEs could be also some kind of brain reaction. The question is what happens when you are really dead. Without your body/brain/senses you wouldnīt be aware of yourself most probably even if there is some "soul" or not, but I also canīt imagine, how can "my self" just disappear. Any kind of energy canīt just disappear or appear. What makes me think about another question - how the energy which caused the so called "big bang" would appear. And how itīs possible that it all exploded suddenly. Thatīs what Iīm calling the "mysterious force". I donīt think it was any kind of being which came and decided to start it all, thatīs why Iīm calling it "mysterious power/force" and not God. Donīt know if itīs like that with other people using this term.

Anyway this kind of topic is really sensitive. Different people have different opinions on this. Scientists might have answers for similar question, but donīt forget that not every thing proved by them is always 100% true. And such thing as the beggining of the universe is definitely not a thing people could be 100% sure about. And so they canīt be sure about what exactly is happening after the death. Iīm afraid if someone would argue about otherīs opinion the debate would go the same way as Peak vs. Peak threads in GM (to nowhere).

You're correct that these discussions tend to go nowhere. But this is a message board. I hope that nobody thinks that there are going to be definitive answers to the big questions that have fascinated people for ages.

But that doesn't mean that they should not be discussed.

DeucesAreWild
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:05 AM
Yes.

Vartan
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:19 AM
I believe in a superior being, God, who has created the big bang but has since then not affected the universe in any way.

Sir Stefwhit
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:26 AM
I'm definitely a believer but not in any one religion. Religion is the sad and tainted part of spirituality that has done atrocious things I'm the name of their respective Gods.

I think there are many paths to enlightenment and spiritual peace- mine is through Jesus Christ, someone else's might be through their own personal truth. I couldn't imagine having to maneuver through this crazy world all by myself- my beliefs give me strength. But I respect everyone's own beliefs.

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:29 AM
I believe in a superior being, God, who has created the big bang but has since then not affected the universe in any way.
Doesn't that make him kind of irrelevant considering he hasn't done anything in over 13 billion years? :p

Vartan
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:30 AM
:shrug:

Helen Lawson
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Yes!

Elwin.
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:19 PM
No

Wert.
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:21 PM
Sometimes.


You either believe or not believe. Saying that you 'sometimes' believe in God sounds rather stupid. :tape:

fifty-fifty
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:25 PM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

Ever thought it was just a phase between life and death? After that 'experience' everything could just fade into nothing.

wild.river
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM
yes, i do :)

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:52 PM
No, until I really see one and he/she does a favour to me.:oh:

fifty-fifty
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:02 PM
No, until I really see one and he/she does a favour to me.:oh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

stromatolite
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:07 PM
God is a weird concept. Any way you twist it or turn it, the notion of an almighty creator doesn't make any sense at all. Nonetheless a lot of perfectly sensible, intelligent people (a lot of them a hell of a lot more sensible and intelligent than me) are utterly convinced that the old bugger exists. But they don't base their conviction on superior knowledge or information, they just 'know' he's out there.

The way I see it the only way to make sense of this fact is to conclude that some people are genetically predisposed towards religious experience, in other words that god is hardwired into their brains. There turns out to be some pretty solid scientific evidence that this is in fact the case.

gmokb
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:15 PM
I do believe that there is a God. I prayer to him each day and go to church to worship him. I don't understand how he stands aside and let bad things happen to good people, especially innocent babies. However, I know he is there in the good and bad times, he is recording and scoring mankind treatment to each other and holding them accountable, especially for actions against the defenceless. On judgment day he will settle all scores.

Kon.
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:17 PM
I was baptised when I was a baby. Not a keen churchgoer, but hey I've got no choice.

That said, I'm not against people believing in God as long as they can get something positive from it.
Why do you have no choice?

fifty-fifty
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:42 PM
God is Alanis Morrissette

tA3dzBrXYtc

saint2
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:25 PM
So? I've seen that on a hangover.


Pff...wimpy. Learn to drink properly, and you'll forget what hangover is...


On Topic- I choose the answer "hard to say"... But I think relligion is the greatest thing on earth. Without it, existance of 95% of people would be miserable...

stromatolite
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:45 PM
^Existence without religion is just fine and dandy, thanks for asking:)

Stevecw
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:49 PM
No, God is just an adults Santa. Doesn't exist...but people that believe....it makes them happier.

ALIEN
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:59 PM
No

Maddox
Dec 15th, 2012, 07:44 PM
I believe, how much more proof do you need in Jesus?

Barrie_Dude
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Yes, I do believe

Novichok
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:24 PM
I believe, how much more proof do you need in Jesus?

More than none.

saint2
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:27 PM
^Existence without religion is just fine and dandy, thanks for asking:)

Outposting me, despite not being around half as long as me is, indeed fine.\

How old are you ? If you're teen or something, you may think life without relligion is fine. But REAL people deal with REAL shit day by day. Me ? Nah...I live by the booze and Im aware I'll die by the booze one day. I live carefree life. My only concern is will I have enough money to get drunk tonight. I can afford living without relligion. The question is do THEY can ?

Going to open another beer...Beer, cigarettes and rock'n'roll...THATS my relligion...

stromatolite
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Outposting me, despite not being around half as long as me is, indeed fine.\

How old are you ? If you're teen or something, you may think life without relligion is fine. But REAL people deal with REAL shit day by day. Me ? Nah...I live by the booze and Im aware I'll die by the booze one day. I live carefree life. My only concern is will I have enough money to get drunk tonight. I can afford living without relligion. The question is do THEY can ?

Going to open another beer...

I must admit I never really got the point of the "you've been around a shorter time than me but have more posts" jibe. It seems to be intended as an insult, but for the life of me I don't get why:confused:

On topic: As an atheist I have no problem with other people believing whatever the hell they want to believe. What I really can't abide is people who peddle the notion that life's personal and moral trials are somehow unbearable without religion, and that people without faith are somehow in need of pity (or worse). The unspoken assumption being that if you don't believe in god you don't believe in anything, and life is just a matter of (in your words) drifting from one can of beer to the next. What an unbelievable load of bollocks.

Btw: I'm no teen (to put it mildly), and in my not-so-limited experience a goodly proportion of the REAL shit REAL people deal with day by day is CAUSED by religion, not solved by it.

saint2
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:57 PM
The unspoken assumption being that if you don't believe in god you don't believe in anything, and life is just a matter of (in your words) drifting from one can of beer to the next. What an unbelievable load of bollocks.



No...Its not "avarage atheist" life. Its MY life :lol::lol::lol:
And its better life than 95% of people (and Im speaking also about the ones who earns bigger money than me, are more succesful, more educated than me, having "happy families" unlike me etc.) If I had to live their lives and not believe in God, I could just as well kill myself right now...

azdaja
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:15 PM
no.

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Yahweh, from the Holy Bible.


"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”'



Just curious.


Absolutely. And Thank you for creating this Thread. Sometimes I forget that we Christians and Believers can reach people from all walks of life, and even in a Tennis Forum. Everyone is going through something tough and trying to deal with it in their own way not realizing that Jesus is the only answer and as always been:angel:

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:34 PM
No. The concept of God is the existence of a single divine entity that permanently exists. These things go against my fundamental worldview as I don't believe anything emotional, psychological or physical permanently exists nor do I think that there is anything that makes something single entity uniquely existing on its own. So no I don't believe in a God.

But I do read the Tanakh and Christian Bible sometimes.

So how do you think everything came into existence?

Petkorazzi
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Agnostic :lol: I don't dismiss the idea of there being a supernatural power, but I think anyone who believes in organized rellgion is absolutely brainwashed and dumb :lol:

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:40 PM
I think you're confusing God with Satan.


"We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." - 1 John 5:19

"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." - 2 Corinthians 4:4

Yess!!! That's the Word!

GOATdin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:49 PM
Yes :)

laschutz
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:06 PM
a supreme being of some sort yes, but the GOD from organized religions any of them? NO!....

A GOD who can do anything and yet "ALLOWS" pain and evil to occur? A GOD who listens to your prayers but doesn't answer them necessarily?

A GOD who isn't fair,is jealous, etcetera....

A GOD who won't "show him/her/itself" to the world? and we are to rely on faith only? even if the world NEEDS "GOD" to appear for their belief and sanity and faith?...."GOD" won't do it?

why would a GOD put people thru the history of humanity basically everyone and anyone thru so much pain and not be fair? all because well if you believe in GOD enough your life may suck while your on earth but you will be rewarded with eternal life and yet once again there is no proof of such? hmm, wouldn't this be the classic definition of a "MASOCHIST?"... allowing evil and pain and sadness and everything else and has the power to NEVER allow this to happen and doesn't do anything about it?

GOD doesn't make mistakes and yet well we humans have mistakes and flaws, why couldn't and didn't he make us perfect if he is all powerful? GOD loves us so much,and yet if we don't believe enough, we'll burn in damning burning fire and loneliness for eternity once we die on this planet....

jesus died on the cross for our sins and so we can have eternal life i was told? well 1) why do we have to die at all, just so can we later experience eternity somewhere else? and 2) if someone told me "hey, by you allowing yourself to die, your saving billions throughout the centuries to come, i would do it in a heartbeat! doesn't sound like such a great sacrifice (regardless if he jesus did or didn't HAVE TO DO THIS)

angels appearing to people as well as saints and so on and miracles galore in the bible but NONE appearing EVER in modern times?

waaaaaay too much sadness, evil, cruelty,unfairness, you name it all without no rhyme or reason and yet if we pray EVEN HARDER AND BELIEVE EVEN MORE AND TRY TO BE THE BEST PERSON WE CAN THEN MAYBE JUST MAYBE THESE THINGS WON'T OCCUR? OH WAIT YES THEY WILL BECAUSE THEY YOUR DOING IT FOR THE WRONG REASONS AND ONCE AGAIN, GOD HEARS YOUR PRAYERS BUT DOESN'T ANSWER THEM? and so on and so on....

talking snakes, men being swallowed by whales, white adam and eve, etcetera, etcetera.... and this is all the CHRISTIAN beliefs, i haven't even touched the other religions organized ones in the world....

analytically all these religious beliefs are a dispelling rational thought and science...

in my mind, a person/people should be 'spiritual" but religious? NO....

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:07 PM
So how do you think everything came into existence?
I think "everything" has always been there. How can you create something from nothing? That is, I believe in the infinity of time and space. Just that things exist in different forms because nothing is permanent and mental and physical phenomena transform itself into something else. Just like our bodies when we die or the stars when they die.

swissmr
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Glad to see Atheism is the majority here :)

GOATdin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:21 PM
^:facepalm:

HippityHop
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:46 PM
The unspoken assumption being that if you don't believe in god you don't believe in anything, and life is just a matter of (in your words) drifting from one can of beer to the next. What an unbelievable load of bollocks.

Funny that you should phrase it that way. It reminds me of that quote by G.K. Chesterton, "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything."

azdaja
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:49 PM
Funny that you should phrase it that way. It reminds me of that quote by G.K. Chesterton, "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything."
bullshit. so big you could even make a new planet out of it. or at least the second earth's "natural" satellite.

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:57 PM
Many people have reported a near-death experience, of seeing a white light or seeing angels.

:lol: funniest shit I have heard today. Keep them coming.


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gi1QthWMKhQ

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:04 PM
I'm definitely a believer but not in any one religion. Religion is the sad and tainted part of spirituality that has done atrocious things I'm the name of their respective Gods.

I think there are many paths to enlightenment and spiritual peace- mine is through Jesus Christ, someone else's might be through their own personal truth. I couldn't imagine having to maneuver through this crazy world all by myself- my beliefs give me strength. But I respect everyone's own beliefs.

This and more. And knowing that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life leads me to not be selfish in my Faith in Christ, but to share the Gospel and Spread the Good News that you don't have to die and go to Hell, but through Jesus Christ who Saved us from our sins, we can have eternity in Heaven with the Father!:bounce:

Joelina
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:04 PM
Yes, i do believe and love Him :)

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:06 PM
You either believe or not believe. Saying that you 'sometimes' believe in God sounds rather stupid. :tape:


To you it sounds stupid, but you're not the measure of someone's understanding. Please let that marinate.

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:08 PM
God is a weird concept. Any way you twist it or turn it, the notion of an almighty creator doesn't make any sense at all. Nonetheless a lot of perfectly sensible, intelligent people (a lot of them a hell of a lot more sensible and intelligent than me) are utterly convinced that the old bugger exists. But they don't base their conviction on superior knowledge or information, they just 'know' he's out there.

The way I see it the only way to make sense of this fact is to conclude that some people are genetically predisposed towards religious experience, in other words that god is hardwired into their brains. There turns out to be some pretty solid scientific evidence that this is in fact the case.

So tell me, what happens after you die??

GOATdin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:13 PM
Atheists are becoming more and more numerous nowadays unfortunately :sad:

Kon.
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:16 PM
Atheists are becoming more and more numerous nowadays unfortunately :sad:

And how is this affecting you or anyone in a negative way? Why is it unfortunate?

Sam L
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:19 PM
So tell me, what happens after you die??
Most atheists believe that you simply cease to exist.

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:19 PM
I must admit I never really got the point of the "you've been around a shorter time than me but have more posts" jibe. It seems to be intended as an insult, but for the life of me I don't get why:confused:

On topic: As an atheist I have no problem with other people believing whatever the hell they want to believe. What I really can't abide is people who peddle the notion that life's personal and moral trials are somehow unbearable without religion, and that people without faith are somehow in need of pity (or worse). The unspoken assumption being that if you don't believe in god you don't believe in anything, and life is just a matter of (in your words) drifting from one can of beer to the next. What an unbelievable load of bollocks.

Btw: I'm no teen (to put it mildly), and in my not-so-limited experience a goodly proportion of the REAL shit REAL people deal with day by day is CAUSED by religion, not solved by it.

So, as an Atheist, are you saying that you believe in nothing?

jrollaneres25
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:35 PM
Agnostic :lol: I don't dismiss the idea of there being a supernatural power, but I think anyone who believes in organized rellgion is absolutely brainwashed and dumb :lol:

tBP1f92fezs

Cage
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:44 PM
No, Although everyone is entitled to an opinion. My personal reasons to why i dont believe, is because i have a scientific brain. Also i search for no more answers in life then what is put in front of me. I also dont strive to find an answer to lifes questions through ancient texts. For those who do find a life value believing in god then that's ok, pleasures of living in an independent thinking world.

ivanban
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:53 PM
I believe in a superior being, God, who has created the big bang but has since then not affected the universe in any way.

So....we're like a TV program for God? :unsure:

I do believe that there is a God. I prayer to him each day and go to church to worship him. I don't understand how he stands aside and let bad things happen to good people, especially innocent babies. However, I know he is there in the good and bad times, he is recording and scoring mankind treatment to each other and holding them accountable, especially for actions against the defenceless. On judgment day he will settle all scores.

Will God settle all scores on judgement day only for Christians or for non-Christians too? :scratch:

Absolutely. And Thank you for creating this Thread. Sometimes I forget that we Christians and Believers can reach people from all walks of life, and even in a Tennis Forum. Everyone is going through something tough and trying to deal with it in their own way not realizing that Jesus is the only answer and as always been:angel:

If you were born in Japan or Saudi Arabia you would believe in same God and Jesus you're mentioning? :confused:

So tell me, what happens after you die??

Nothing, your existence is over :shrug:

ivanban
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:55 PM
I was baptised when I was a baby. Not a keen churchgoer, but hey I've got no choice.

That said, I'm not against people believing in God as long as they can get something positive from it.

I was baptised as a baby, too, but I never believed in God

Mr.Sharapova
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:58 PM
I do actually but I prefer to keep it for myself. I am not that expressive as others may be:shrug:. I don't like the ones who keep talking about religion or have religious symbols in them :shrug:. I believe but I believe for myself not for others.

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Can I just say, wanting to believe in an afterlife is not a great argument for believing in God. Just because something comforts people doesn't make it any more true.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Most atheists believe that you simply cease to exist.

What a sad way live your life. I assume that they are believers of YOLO, but I choose to live again, forever with Jesus Christ. It just doesn't make sense for me to be created( I didn't create myself nor did anyone in the history of mankind) just to die and that be it....:sad:

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:22 AM
What a sad way live your life. I assume that they are believers of YOLO, but I choose to live again, forever with Jesus Christ. It just doesn't make sense for me to be created( I didn't create myself nor did anyone in the history of mankind) and then to just die and then that be it....:sad:

Why is it a sad way to live a life :unsure: It's better to live a life believing in something unproven?! :scratch:

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:31 AM
What a sad way live your life. I assume that they are believers of YOLO, but I choose to live again, forever with Jesus Christ. It just doesn't make sense for me to be created( I didn't create myself nor did anyone in the history of mankind) and then to just die and then that be it....:sad:

So you're pretty much admitting that the reason you believe in God/Jesus/whatever is because you just don't want to believe that there is only one life.

What is wrong with just having one life and living it to the maximum?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:46 AM
If you were born in Japan or Saudi Arabia you would believe in same God and Jesus you're mentioning? :confused:

Oh absolutely! There are Christians all over the World!

vLb8bFb_-wE

1_mEMeHlTdA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkw7UeX_p74&playnext=1&list=PL67F0DAD06726C753&feature=results_main

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:49 AM
Why is it a sad way to live a life :unsure: It's better to live a life believing in something unproven?! :scratch:

Wait, what's unproven? Have you proved that God doesn't exist?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:50 AM
So you're pretty much admitting that the reason you believe in God/Jesus/whatever is because you just don't want to believe that there is only one life.

What is wrong with just having one life and living it to the maximum?

Nope, not at all. That is just a very minute reason as to why I don't believe in existence as you do.

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:51 AM
Wait, what's unproven? Have you proved that God doesn't exist?

:tape: You can't prove that something doesn't exist. Would you want proof that fairies or unicorns don't exist?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:52 AM
Proof that God exists.

KRY-QSPAn7M&feature=share

Number19
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:55 AM
If you were born in Japan or Saudi Arabia you would believe in same God and Jesus you're mentioning? :confused:


Saudi Arabia yes. The Muslim, Jewish, and Christian God is the same god. Muslims also believe in Jesus.

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:55 AM
Oh absolutely! There are Christians all over the World!

Likelihood to be a Christian in Saudi Arabia is less than 1%. Especially considering that the percentage of Saudi Arabian citizens who are Christians is officially zero, as Saudi Arabia forbids religious conversion from Islam and punishes it by death (Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia) :tape:

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:01 AM
Proof that God exists.

KRY-QSPAn7M&feature=share

Seriously? :lol: 'The laws of information science' :tape: If the Earth can't spontaneously generate then why do they assume that God can? As the video says, 'not likely'. Who created God, who caused him to come into existence?

Whoever made this video clearly never went to a science class. Awful Christian propaganda.
Do you also believe in Creationism? As opposed to Evolution?

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:06 AM
Proof that God exists.

KRY-QSPAn7M&feature=share

Uhum, so why didn't prehistoric people believe in same God?

GOATdin0931
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:27 AM
And how is this affecting you or anyone in a negative way? Why is it unfortunate?

Umm yeah the atheists I know can be very rude at times and are very disrespectful to my beliefs always asking how can I believe in God and what is wrong with me. :shrug: I know that not all atheists are like this but I do believe they are becoming a huge threat to this world and humanity. :shrug:

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:32 AM
Umm yeah the atheists I know can be very rude at times and are very disrespectful to my beliefs always asking how can I believe in God and what is wrong with me. :shrug: I know that not all atheists are like this but I do believe they are becoming a huge threat to this world and humanity. :shrug:

As far as I know countless wars and acts or terrorism happened because of religion, don't remember anything similar related with atheism :scratch:

HippityHop
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:59 AM
bullshit. so big you could even make a new planet out of it. or at least the second earth's "natural" satellite.

Well that settles it for me. :lol:

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:09 AM
No, and I get reminded of that every time there is such sadness and tragedy in the world. What kind of god would allow so many innocent people to suffer?! 20 innocent kids under the age of 10 killed today! What is the reason for that? What kind of god would allow that to happen.

Off the soap box now :)

lD1yv4J6ohE

HippityHop
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:10 AM
I do actually but I prefer to keep it for myself. I am not that expressive as others may be:shrug:. I don't like the ones who keep talking about religion or have religious symbols in them :shrug:. I believe but I believe for myself not for others.

If you are a Christian (again I said if)then you are what's called lukewarm. And the Bible has something to say about lukewarm Chrisitians.

Helen Lawson
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:09 AM
lD1yv4J6ohE

:worship:

dybbuk
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:26 AM
Wait, what's unproven? Have you proved that God doesn't exist?

The existence of God is unproven. Which is a fact and the overwhelming majority of Christians would agree with it. You could do with understanding of what 'unproven' means, as you seem to think it's synonymous with 'disproven." And lmao at that video "proving" God exists. Ask an actual scientist before you come with that pseudo-science. :lol: When it comes to "proof" of God's existence I will always go with Kierkegaard, who said the existence of God can never be proven by science.

IceSkaTennisFan
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:04 AM
The only thing that makes me think about it is social pressure. No thanks.

*JR*
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:05 AM
Why is a presumably "beyond gender" Creator always described as male, ala He or Him? And why is it still said (despite incalculably greater knowledge of the vastness of the universe than existed in ancient times) is God described as a singular being?
:confused:

For all one knows, "God" could be some sort of celestial government, with X number of "delegates" from one galaxy, and Y number from another. And anyone who wants to address these questions should not quote Scripture, as the Bible "proving itself right" would be circular reasoning.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:42 AM
No, Although everyone is entitled to an opinion. My personal reasons to why i dont believe, is because i have a scientific brain. Also i search for no more answers in life then what is put in front of me. I also dont strive to find an answer to lifes questions through ancient texts. For those who do find a life value believing in god then that's ok, pleasures of living in an independent thinking world.

It sounds like you're a logical guy/gal. Science is great. How do you account for things like the laws of logic (which require your brain) yet aren't scientific?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:47 AM
I think "everything" has always been there. How can you create something from nothing? That is, I believe in the infinity of time and space. Just that things exist in different forms because nothing is permanent and mental and physical phenomena transform itself into something else. Just like our bodies when we die or the stars when they die.

I hear you regarding "everything always being there." How do you handle the current cosmological discoveries that have proven the universe had a beginning?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:49 AM
No, Although everyone is entitled to an opinion. My personal reasons to why i dont believe, is because i have a scientific brain. Also i search for no more answers in life then what is put in front of me. I also dont strive to find an answer to lifes questions through ancient texts. For those who do find a life value believing in god then that's ok, pleasures of living in an independent thinking world.

Also Cage, how do you account for historic facts that don't lend themselves to the scientific method in order to be proven true? For example, how do you prove scientifically that George Washington existed? Would that mean you don't believe in George Washington?

dybbuk
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:50 AM
Also Cage, how do you account for historic facts that don't lend themselves to the scientific method in order to be proven true? For example, how do you prove scientifically that George Washington existed? Would that mean you don't believe in George Washington?

Please stop. This is embarrassing.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:54 AM
Can I just say, wanting to believe in an afterlife is not a great argument for believing in God. Just because something comforts people doesn't make it any more true.

Swissmr: What is Truth?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:04 AM
The existence of God is unproven. Which is a fact and the overwhelming majority of Christians would agree with it. You could do with understanding of what 'unproven' means, as you seem to think it's synonymous with 'disproven." And lmao at that video "proving" God exists. Ask an actual scientist before you come with that pseudo-science. :lol: When it comes to "proof" of God's existence I will always go with Kierkegaard, who said the existence of God can never be proven by science.

Interesting comments by Kierkegaard. There are many things that science is unable to prove. Question: Can science prove that which is good or evil?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:07 AM
The only thing that makes me think about it is social pressure. No thanks.

Does the amount of social pressure involved prove a particular fact true or false?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:08 AM
Why is a presumably "beyond gender" Creator always described as male, ala He or Him? And why is it still said (despite incalculably greater knowledge of the vastness of the universe than existed in ancient times) is God described as a singular being?
:confused:

For all one knows, "God" could be some sort of celestial government, with X number of "delegates" from one galaxy, and Y number from another. And anyone who wants to address these questions should not quote Scripture, as the Bible "proving itself right" would be circular reasoning.

How would determining if God were male or female, a celestial government, etc. change your response to God?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:16 AM
Please stop. This is embarrassing.

Interesting response. I'm not sure that was an answer to the question, but ok.

stromatolite
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:22 AM
So tell me, what happens after you die??

In my view, when you die, you die, end of story.

But if you want to believe something else happens, that's cool:)

So, as an Atheist, are you saying that you believe in nothing?

In terms of the supernatural, yes, I believe in nothing.

But in human terms I believe in lots of things, including the importance of being humble, being warm and supportive of others, being trusting and trustworthy, being open to new experiences, being curious about how the world works, etc etc .....

Sam L
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:19 AM
I hear you regarding "everything always being there." How do you handle the current cosmological discoveries that have proven the universe had a beginning?

Big Bang doesn't explain what happened before the Big Bang, only what came after. Also, it is based on observations from the observable universe. That is getting pushed more and more as our technology improves and as the light from farther distances reach us.

When I say everything has always been there, I don't mean in a permanent state as it is now but I mean mental and physical phenomena has always existed and will always exist.

What I believe is a mix of Hindu/Buddhist cosmology with regard to the life, time and space.

The 2nd Law
Dec 16th, 2012, 10:20 AM
The thought of ceasing to exist absolutely terrifies me, especially since my grandmother died. I was raised in a non-practising catholic family, the bible means nothing to me and I never go to church. Yet somehow, I still believe in God. For me, I think it's a fear of death.

Edward.
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:26 PM
No.

The whole concept of God is ludicrous.

Talula
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:38 PM
No, and I get reminded of that every time there is such sadness and tragedy in the world. What kind of god would allow so many innocent people to suffer?! 20 innocent kids under the age of 10 killed today! What is the reason for that? What kind of god would allow that to happen.

Off the soap box now :)

It was a human being that murdered those people. Famine persists due to humans refusing to address it. Famine is actually easily addressed. War, murder, and all other atrocities are all done by humankind. Most, I agree not all, but most diseases can be treated. Failure to do so in certain countries is down to humankind. In fact pretty much most misery in the World is down to humans.

I'm not saying that there is a God, but don't use the actions of humans as proof there isn't a God or Gods. Free will etc!

Kon.
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Umm yeah the atheists I know can be very rude at times and are very disrespectful to my beliefs always asking how can I believe in God and what is wrong with me. :shrug: I know that not all atheists are like this but I do believe they are becoming a huge threat to this world and humanity. :shrug:

So some atheists you know were rude to you so atheists pose a threat to humanity. That's a very complicated thought process.
When it comes to dangers related to religion, atheists are not dangerous to humanity and neither are religious people. Organized religion however has caused wars, terrorism plus several other problems because of their involvement in the governments for no reason at all. Countless people have died because of something as pointless as organized religion.

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:01 PM
I hear you regarding "everything always being there." How do you handle the current cosmological discoveries that have proven the universe had a beginning?

Then why people needed thousands of years to "discover" that God created everything? Why didn't people 1000BC believed in same "modern God"? They needed a book to tell them so? If there's one God how can people believe in one version now and have totally different belief 3000 years ago?

Also Cage, how do you account for historic facts that don't lend themselves to the scientific method in order to be proven true? For example, how do you prove scientifically that George Washington existed? Would that mean you don't believe in George Washington?

You're kidding, right?! :unsure:

Interesting comments by Kierkegaard. There are many things that science is unable to prove. Question: Can science prove that which is good or evil?

You need religion to tell you what is good or evil?! :unsure: :tape: I use common sense, you should try it sometimes ;)

Does the amount of social pressure involved prove a particular fact true or false?

No, but atheist can ask you the same question :shrug: Are you born in religious family? Have you discovered God by yourself or your parents involved you in certain religion?

How would determining if God were male or female, a celestial government, etc. change your response to God?

It wouldn't, but you assume God is male even though there's no evidence of that

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Some of jrollaneres25's posts :facepalm:

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:39 PM
Yes, I absolutely believe in a superior being who was the start of everything. In the Catholic God? Eh... I'm... having a bit of a crisis with all of it :unsure:

Jeffery
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:42 PM
Probably only when I need him.

Ashi
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:55 PM
Only during a crisis, when things are way beyond my control.

MaBaker
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:46 PM
You either believe or not believe. Saying that you 'sometimes' believe in God sounds rather stupid. :tape:
Is this creature finally banned for good? :dancingflower:

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:54 PM
In my view, when you die, you die, end of story.

But if you want to believe something else happens, that's cool:)



In terms of the supernatural, yes, I believe in nothing.

But in human terms I believe in lots of things, including the importance of being humble, being warm and supportive of others, being trusting and trustworthy, being open to new experiences, being curious about how the world works, etc etc .....

If nothing happens when you die, what is the purpose and meaning of life as you see it? Why is it important to be trusting, open, curious, etc.?

Petkorazzi
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:09 PM
If God actually exists, why did he have to make the human organism so complex? :lol: Couldn't he just make the body work without all this DNA and cells and stuff that traces back to the simplest of living things. :lol:

Oh and having said that, I still believe I'd make a better Christian right now than a big chunk of believers. Most of them are only religious when they are in trouble and need help, when they're out in the world doing all kind of nast stuff who gives a shit about God then. :lol:

*JR*
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:10 PM
If nothing happens when you die, what is the purpose and meaning of life as you see it? Why is it important to be trusting, open, curious, etc.?

What's the purpose of the life of amoeba for example, other than to propagate? :confused:

Speaking of which, do the following have an afterlife:

Chimpanzees (related to humans)
Dolphins (very smart)
Dogs and cats (often treated like family members)

But what about mice, racoons, squirrels, insects, etc, etc, etc?

Even if there is/are Creator(s) it hardly proves an afterlife. We might all be part of an "observational study", akin to a glass-enclosed ant farm. And perhaps (if there is an afterlife) those who "make the cut" aren't those who meekly submitted to authority like organized religion, but who had the guts to refuse that. :scratch:

stromatolite
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:13 PM
If nothing happens when you die, what is the purpose and meaning of life as you see it? Why is it important to be trusting, open, curious, etc.?

Why would these things only be important for what happens after you die? They're important right here right now.

The purpose and meaning of life is what we make of it. For all it's flaws, I think we live in a pretty amazing world, and for the most part that world is what we've made of it as human beings.

If we depend on some external god to force us to do good things I think we're in pretty bad shape.

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:22 PM
Why would these things only be important for what happens after you die? They're important right here right now.

The purpose and meaning of life is what we make of it. For all it's flaws, I think we live in a pretty amazing world, and for the most part that world is what we've made of it as human beings.

If we depend on some external god to force us to do good things I think we're in pretty bad shape.

Couldn't agree more. The basis for our morals comes from within, not from religion.

To say that it's only important to be kind, caring etc. just because you want to make sure you go into the afterlife is a pretty selfish viewpoint when you think about it.

fifty-fifty
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:01 PM
Something to consider

vbB7X5s73Pw

ALIEN
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:30 PM
I would recommend reading from authors like Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris (or watching them debate on youtube on this "faith vs reason" thing)

GOATdin0931
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Maybe if God was actually allowed in schools these terrible things would not happen :sad:

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Maybe if God was actually allowed in schools these terrible things would not happen :sad:

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/e/5/e51b6_ORIG-eddie_murphy_wtf_gif.gif

Elwin.
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Umm yeah the atheists I know can be very rude at times and are very disrespectful to my beliefs always asking how can I believe in God and what is wrong with me. :shrug: I know that not all atheists are like this but I do believe they are becoming a huge threat to this world and humanity. :shrug:
:spit: :spit: :spit:
I'm sorry. Muslims,Christians have told me i go to hell because i'm gay. Now such people are a threat to this world and humanity. That's disrespectful
And yes, i'm an atheist with respect for all religions

As far as I know countless wars and acts or terrorism happened because of religion, don't remember anything similar related with atheism :scratch:
Amen :worship:

GOATdin0931
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:11 PM
Thats my opinion :rolleyes:

Things were much better back in past decades. I did not mean to cause you disrespect but that is what I believe. :)

égalité
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:12 PM
I believe, how much more proof do you need in Jesus?

How about any at all?

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:22 PM
If nothing happens when you die, what is the purpose and meaning of life as you see it? Why is it important to be trusting, open, curious, etc.?

So, you're trying to be a good person because religion you believe in demands so in order to have a wonderful afterlife? :unsure: Do you really need religion to tell you it is not good to steal or kill or whatever?! Making the best out of your life isn't good enough meaning of life?!

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:24 PM
Thats my opinion :rolleyes:

Things were much better back in past decades. I did not mean to cause you disrespect but that is what I believe. :)

You mean past decades when we had two world wars? :confused:

GOATdin0931
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:27 PM
People are still trying to learn from the past but so many shootings have taken place in schools recently killing innocent young men and women as well as children. Luckily they are all in a better place now. And the beauty with religion is that you don't have to prove anything you just have to believe in it. Some people can't see it that way and they have the right to. :shrug:

One major problem in the world today is that people are way too sensitive and take everything too personally.

goOudinUSA
Dec 16th, 2012, 08:23 PM
I believe that there is a God. That Jesus came to this Earth to redeem us of our sins. I believe that after you die, you either go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.

GOATdin0931
Dec 16th, 2012, 08:55 PM
^:awww: :hug: Same here :)

fifty-fifty
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:40 PM
I would recommend reading from authors like Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris (or watching them debate on youtube on this "faith vs reason" thing)

I would rather read Joseph Campbell, Alan Watts, and Carl Jung.

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:12 PM
I believe that there is a God. That Jesus came to this Earth to redeem us of our sins. I believe that after you die, you either go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.

^:awww: :hug: Same here :)

So...no heaven for people who practice Buddhism or Hinduism? :unsure:

DemWilliamsGulls
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:16 PM
I believe in God and that there is a higher being...but I dont believe everything in the bible.....(kinda shocked at the results)

swissmr
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:19 PM
I believe that there is a God. That Jesus came to this Earth to redeem us of our sins. I believe that after you die, you either go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.

Yes but had you been born somewhere else you would have a totally different set of beliefs that you'd be equally adamant about :lol: Anyone that can't admit that is in denial.

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Speaking of results I think there should have been at least 3 categories, with third being religious opportunists (who believe in God only when it's convenient for them)

ivanban
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Yes but had you been born somewhere else you would have a totally different set of beliefs that you'd be equally adamant about :lol: Anyone that can't admit that is in denial.

It's astonishing how many people fails to understand that fact :tape:

azdaja
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:28 PM
Well that settles it for me. :lol:
just like your post had settled it for me. you know, we all have our principles and "beliefs". they all stem from our human nature. the only ones capable of "believing in anything" are the followers of organised religions (the ones "believing in someting"). though, to be fair, their leaders have to adopt to them, so they invent bs such as x-mas being the b-day of jesus according to the bible rather than a pagan celebration of the birth of a son god. so, even they will always be better than their religion.

The thought of ceasing to exist absolutely terrifies me, especially since my grandmother died. I was raised in a non-practising catholic family, the bible means nothing to me and I never go to church. Yet somehow, I still believe in God. For me, I think it's a fear of death.
the fear of death certainly played a major role in development of religions. my own, non-religious way to look at it is that your organic matter goes back to the natural life cycle.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:44 PM
Big Bang doesn't explain what happened before the Big Bang, only what came after. Also, it is based on observations from the observable universe. That is getting pushed more and more as our technology improves and as the light from farther distances reach us.

When I say everything has always been there, I don't mean in a permanent state as it is now but I mean mental and physical phenomena has always existed and will always exist.

What I believe is a mix of Hindu/Buddhist cosmology with regard to the life, time and space.

What is the scientific basis you use to determine things are always here?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:45 PM
No.

The whole concept of God is ludicrous.

Does your claim "the whole concept of God is ludicrous" have any scientific support or is that just your opinion?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Then why people needed thousands of years to "discover" that God created everything? Why didn't people 1000BC believed in same "modern God"? They needed a book to tell them so? If there's one God how can people believe in one version now and have totally different belief 3000 years ago?



You're kidding, right?! :unsure:



You need religion to tell you what is good or evil?! :unsure: :tape: I use common sense, you should try it sometimes ;)



No, but atheist can ask you the same question :shrug: Are you born in religious family? Have you discovered God by yourself or your parents involved you in certain religion?



It wouldn't, but you assume God is male even though there's no evidence of that


You made a number of statements. However, you never answered the question I asked?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:47 PM
You're kidding, right?! :unsure:

Is (you're kidding right) your answer?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:49 PM
You need religion to tell you what is good or evil?! :unsure: :tape: I use common sense, you should try it sometimes ;)

I'm trying to understand how someone with a worldview that says we are stardust is able to decide for others what evil/good is? Based on what? According to what?

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:50 PM
It wouldn't, but you assume God is male even though there's no evidence of that

I've made no claim regarding God, my question is solely based on your comments.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:51 PM
Some of jrollaneres25's posts :facepalm:

I apologize. However, that should make them that much easier to answer. Thanks for your help.

jrollaneres25
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:53 PM
What's the purpose of the life of amoeba for example, other than to propagate? :confused:

Speaking of which, do the following have an afterlife:

Chimpanzees (related to humans)
Dolphins (very smart)
Dogs and cats (often treated like family members)

But what about mice, racoons, squirrels, insects, etc, etc, etc?

Even if there is/are Creator(s) it hardly proves an afterlife. We might all be part of an "observational study", akin to a glass-enclosed ant farm. And perhaps (if there is an afterlife) those who "make the cut" aren't those who meekly submitted to authority like organized religion, but who had the guts to refuse that. :scratch:

I thought I asked a simple question. Perhaps I was wrong. I wasn't asking anyone to prove the existence of the afterlife. I was asking, based upon YOUR worldview, what is the meaning of life? I'm always impressed at how some of my atheist friends seem to make the simple complicated. :lol:

dybbuk
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:53 PM
People are still trying to learn from the past but so many shootings have taken place in schools recently killing innocent young men and women as well as children. Luckily they are all in a better place now. And the beauty with religion is that you don't have to prove anything you just have to believe in it. Some people can't see it that way and they have the right to. :shrug:

One major problem in the world today is that people are way too sensitive and take everything too personally.

Oh my God. You've basically been in here throwing a fit because so many people on TF don't believe in God, and now you're complaining about people being too sensitive? :hysteric: How is your life effected in any way by people on a tennis website being religious or not? Yet you're in here crying over it.

Number19
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:57 PM
I'm trying to understand how someone with a worldview that says we are stardust is able to decide for others what evil/good is? Based on what? According to what?

What is evil/good is based on the fact we are a social animal and our interaction with each other within our social constructs such as culture, country and religion. It is determined by us humans or forced on us by other humans here on earth, not a god or gods or any supernatural being beyond this realm of existence.

azdaja
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:02 AM
...
why don't you try the wonderful multiquote function this website offers you? :confused:

jrollaneres25
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:05 AM
I believe that there is a God. That Jesus came to this Earth to redeem us of our sins. I believe that after you die, you either go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.

Selah, brother/sister;)

GOATdin0931
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:16 AM
Oh my God. You've basically been in here throwing a fit because so many people on TF don't believe in God, and now you're complaining about people being too sensitive? :hysteric: How is your life effected in any way by people on a tennis website being religious or not? Yet you're in here crying over it.

Umm I was just a little disappointed, but I have to learn to respect others opinions. :shrug:

And yeah I was definitely crying over this ;)

Stamp Paid
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:59 AM
Yes, I do.
Everybody on earth will die, with most of us having experienced some kind of terrible pain in our lives. If there's no divine reason for it all, then thats sad.

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 01:00 AM
Being disappointed in the way others believe is so desperate.

To answer the question, I believe in an individual God, if that makes sense. I believe in a God, but not like, a religious God or one representation of God. A lot of people these days call themselves spiritual, but I'm more philosophical in my belief. I believe there is a God that you can look up to and talk to and account for yourself and your own behavior. I think it's more like I believe in an angel. I believe there is an angel in the sky who looks after those who do good, that sees who is doing good and bad, that you can talk to, and that everyone has.

Traditional prayer, religious texts, don't believe in it. My family does but they're not extreme about it.

GOATdin0931
Dec 17th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Well Ill have to learn how to deal with the world and what it is becoming :shrug:

Otlichno
Dec 17th, 2012, 02:02 AM
Well Ill have to learn how to deal with the world and what it is becoming :shrug:

You'll have to deal with what others believe in? :spit: :tape:

McPie
Dec 17th, 2012, 02:07 AM
God only knows ;)

GOATdin0931
Dec 17th, 2012, 02:32 AM
Sorry if I offended anyone but I just came in here to state my opinion. :) :hug:

Cajka
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:42 AM
I don't spend much time thinking about the things or beings that can't be proved to exist or not, in that sense - I'm agnostic. I believe that our knowledge, intelligence, experience and the time we got to spend on this planet are just limited, even if there was some superior force, that force would be superior by far and we would never get a chance to understand it anyway. I don't think that religion is a bad thing or anything, but I'm not religious myself. I don't need to go to church to find my inner peace or to read The Bible to learn what's right or wrong.

But I must say I love Christmas for example, for me celebrating Christmas is the part of my culture and national tradition, that's the time of year I enjoy spending with my family and it's much more than something related to religion. Although I'm not religious myself, I'm not trying to deny that Orthodox Christianity is a huge part of my nation identity and tradition, so I'm fine with that.

goOudinUSA
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:45 AM
How many people believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ?

I personally believe that Jesus was born of a virgin...



Just want to know what others think...

jrollaneres25
Dec 17th, 2012, 05:38 AM
:spit: :spit: :spit:
I'm sorry. Muslims,Christians have told me i go to hell because i'm gay. Now such people are a threat to this world and humanity. That's disrespectful
And yes, i'm an atheist with respect for all religions

I'm knowledgeable enough about the Christian Worldview to know that whoever responded to you in that manner was not acting in line with their faith. However, with that said, if life has no meaning (based on the atheist worldview) and we all are stardust, why would it matter if someone was verbally abusive toward you for being gay? Weren't they just doing what stardust does to other stardust? Why was what they did wrong? I'm curious?

IceSkaTennisFan
Dec 17th, 2012, 05:56 AM
Does the amount of social pressure involved prove a particular fact true or false?

That would assume that society is advocating a fact. Facts exist independent of whether a majority of society agrees with them or not, so to answer your question no.

égalité
Dec 17th, 2012, 06:46 AM
I'm knowledgeable enough about the Christian Worldview to know that whoever responded to you in that manner was not acting in line with their faith. However, with that said, if life has no meaning (based on the atheist worldview) and we all are stardust, why would it matter if someone was verbally abusive toward you for being gay? Weren't they just doing what stardust does to other stardust? Why was what they did wrong? I'm curious?

This is not part of the atheist worldview. I don't think there needs to be an afterlife in order for our lives to have meaning. :shrug:

stromatolite
Dec 17th, 2012, 06:47 AM
I'm knowledgeable enough about the Christian Worldview to know that whoever responded to you in that manner was not acting in line with their faith. However, with that said, if life has no meaning (based on the atheist worldview) and we all are stardust, why would it matter if someone was verbally abusive toward you for being gay? Weren't they just doing what stardust does to other stardust? Why was what they did wrong? I'm curious?

I'm fine with your religious views and don't feel any need or desire to "convert" you to atheism, but you seem to be misunderstanding the atheist view.

The fact that atheists believe we all come from stardust and will ultimately return to stardust doesn't mean that atheists don't feel love, pain, sorrow, joy, and a sense of wonder at the incredible world we live in.

The fact that life arose out of non-living material, and that that life eventually evolved into beings capable all of those feelings and emotions, is a source of awe for anybody interested in science. And even atheists who are not interested in science feel all those emotions just as strongly, and just as strongly as religious people do.

I know it's not your intention, but your assertion that atheists are "missing" something, to the extent that, say, they shouldn't care if they're abused for being gay, is kind of offensive. So is your assertion that morality only exists by the grace of god.

Sam L
Dec 17th, 2012, 07:41 AM
What is the scientific basis you use to determine things are always here?

Indirectly, the Law of the Conservation of Mass about how mass cannot be created or destroyed but can only be rearranged. Therefore, you can't just create a bunch of atoms out of nowhere and therefore, those atoms must have always existed and will always exist, just in different forms.

Sam L
Dec 17th, 2012, 08:07 AM
I don't spend much time thinking about the things or beings that can't be proved to exist or not, in that sense - I'm agnostic. I believe that our knowledge, intelligence, experience and the time we got to spend on this planet are just limited, even if there was some superior force, that force would be superior by far and we would never get a chance to understand it anyway. I don't think that religion is a bad thing or anything, but I'm not religious myself. I don't need to go to church to find my inner peace or to read The Bible to learn what's right or wrong.

But I must say I love Christmas for example, for me celebrating Christmas is the part of my culture and national tradition, that's the time of year I enjoy spending with my family and it's much more than something related to religion. Although I'm not religious myself, I'm not trying to deny that Orthodox Christianity is a huge part of my nation identity and tradition, so I'm fine with that.

I went to a Russian Orthodox church service when I was in Russia. It was fascinating even though I don't know any Russian and I don't know Orthodox Christianity very well. I like Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy myself for cultural reasons.

Elwin.
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:32 AM
I'm knowledgeable enough about the Christian Worldview to know that whoever responded to you in that manner was not acting in line with their faith. However, with that said, if life has no meaning (based on the atheist worldview) and we all are stardust, why would it matter if someone was verbally abusive toward you for being gay? Weren't they just doing what stardust does to other stardust? Why was what they did wrong? I'm curious?

Because i find it disrespectful. Yes, i'm an atheist. But i respect all religions. I'm almost a teacher now, and i've given so many lessons about religions to my Elementary kids. And i like doing that, because i find religion very interesting.
All has to do with respect. But that's my opinion

Gagsquet
Dec 17th, 2012, 11:12 AM
I would like to believe in God because as Pascal said : le silence éternel de ces espaces infinies m'effraie.

ivanban
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:08 PM
You made a number of statements. However, you never answered the question I asked?

And the question was?!

Is (you're kidding right) your answer?

Actually, yes. :spit: How can you even question the existence of George Washington? :tape: There are countless evidence about his existence, and yet you question it because you didn't see him personally?!?! :o

I'm trying to understand how someone with a worldview that says we are stardust is able to decide for others what evil/good is? Based on what? According to what?

So, you do need religion to tell you what is good/evil and there's no other way you can figure it out by yourself?! :tape: Apart from common sense which should already be enough for you to differentiate good/evil, with development of society people also made laws which have improved over the centuries to the present level and which sanction all forms of evil, too.

This is not part of the atheist worldview. I don't think there needs to be an afterlife in order for our lives to have meaning. :shrug:

Exactly. Everyone's life will be as meaningful as they make the best out of it. If you waste your life on drugs, alcohol, criminal...then yes - there's not much meaning in those types of life.

What is the scientific basis you use to determine things are always here?

Hmmm. So God was so smart and knowledgeable to create atoms, moleculs, cells, chemical elements, bacteria, stars, planets, asteriods, comets..... Why would God bother to make everything so complex? :scratch: And then to choose one spot (Earth) in the middle of nowhere and create life (but only according to certain groups of believers, because different religions have different scenarios of how everything came to be)? :unsure:

homogenius
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:19 PM
No but I believe in trolls (btw Jesus was probably the ultimate troll and that's why he got banned from Earth.Hope that helps).

GoofyDuck
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:32 PM
No

jrollaneres25
Dec 17th, 2012, 12:50 PM
I'm fine with your religious views and don't feel any need or desire to "convert" you to atheism, but you seem to be misunderstanding the atheist view.

The fact that atheists believe we all come from stardust and will ultimately return to stardust doesn't mean that atheists don't feel love, pain, sorrow, joy, and a sense of wonder at the incredible world we live in.

The fact that life arose out of non-living material, and that that life eventually evolved into beings capable all of those feelings and emotions, is a source of awe for anybody interested in science. And even atheists who are not interested in science feel all those emotions just as strongly, and just as strongly as religious people do.

I know it's not your intention, but your assertion that atheists are "missing" something, to the extent that, say, they shouldn't care if they're abused for being gay, is kind of offensive. So is your assertion that morality only exists by the grace of god.


I'm not espousing a religious view here. I'm trying to understand the atheist worldview. I'm not seeking conversion but understanding.

I agree with your premise that human life should be treated with dignity. However, logically speaking if we are all here based upon random chance (according to the atheist worldview) we have no scientific basis to make the claim that we deserve better treatment than any other randomly produced thing on the planet. With that said, it seems in order to make a case for the value of treating others with "respect" atheist are borrowing from a worldview that says life is sacred and meaningful (or at least valuable). If we are just stardust returning to nothingness, why would it matter how anyone is treated?

For example, my grass doesn't complain in the summer when I cut it, or walk on it, or when my dog does his "business" on it. It's grass. Unless you can make the case that its lack of growth is in rebellion to my treatment, grass has no meaning other than the value given it by someone or something else.

Therefore if we all are stardust, with a meaningless life, going into nothingness, our "feelings" about the treatment from others is irrelevant. Our feelings only serve to tell us that our experience is not pleasurable. However, those feelings cannot inform us that anything is right or wrong (good or bad). The most we could do (based on the atheist worldview) Is to say that a particular behavior is not right for us. However, it couldn't be said that a particular behavior is wrong for anyone else since we are stardust going into nothingness (it doesn't matter). Right?

stromatolite
Dec 17th, 2012, 01:06 PM
I'm not espousing a religious view here. I'm trying to understand the atheist worldview. I'm not seeking conversion but understanding.

I agree with your premise that human life should be treated with dignity. However, logically speaking if we are all here basis upon random chance (according to the atheist worldview) we have no scientific based to make the claim that we deserve better treatment than any other randomly produced thing on the planet. With that said, it seems in order to make a case for the value of treating others with "respect" atheist are borrowing from a worldview that says life is sacred and meaningful (or at least valuable). If we are just stardust returning to nothingness, why would it matter how anyone is treated?

For example, my grass doesn't complain in the summer when I cut it, or walk on it, or when my dog does his "business" on it. It's grass. Unless you can make the case that its lack of growth is in rebellion to my treatment, grass has no meaning other than the value given it by someone or something else.

Therefore if we all are stardust, with a meaningless life, going into nothingness, our "feelings" about the treatment from others is irrelevant. Our feelings only serve to tell us that our experience is not pleasurable. However, those feelings cannot inform us that anything is right or wrong (good or bad). The most we could do (based on the atheist worldview) Is to say that a particular behavior is not right for us. However, it couldn't be said that a particular behavior is wrong for anyone else since we are stardust going into nothingness (it doesn't matter). Right?

I think you're making an erroneous connection here (actually more than one, but I'll stick to the main one). There is nothing in the scientific view of the world that implies anything one way or another about who or what is deserving of respect. Morals are, depending on your point of view, a human invention (the atheist view), or something handed down to us from a divine being (the religious view).

Viewing morals as man-made doesn't undermine their validity, any more than viewing a house as a human construction should undermine your willingness to live in it. In both cases reasonable and sensible people should take a good look at the construction, and where necessary, make repairs.

This is exactly what we see: moral values adapt over time as people incorporate new insights and experiences into the moral framework. Like houses, there is a general tendency for the quality of our morals to improve over time, although this is far from a linear process.

This is because our morals are based on practical experience: we observe, for example, that a society where people go around killing each other with impunity is not a very good society, so we make up a rule "thou shalt not kill", then we see that it's pretty crappy when people go around taking each other's proporty, so we say "thou shalt not steal", etc.

I'm simplifying of course, but this is basically where (in my view) our morals come from, and they persist because, in general, they work in a way that makes most people happy.

Miss Amor
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:15 PM
No I do not believe in God, but wish I could.

Novichok
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Morals are, depending on your point of view, a human invention (the atheist view), or something handed down to us from a divine being (the religious view).


There are some atheists who don't believe that morals are just a human invention though.

stromatolite
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:26 PM
There are some atheists who don't believe that morals are just a human invention though.

As I said, I was simplifying. In part, morals are part of our biological evolution, with things like empathy, reciprocity, a sense of (in)justice, etc. being at least partly hardwired into our make-up. Even so, it takes social evolution (which is what I meant by human invention) to go from those things to concrete rules and guidelines for moral behaviour.

But maybe you were referring to something else. If so, I'm curious.:)

edificio
Dec 17th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Godless heathen here.

However, religion and religious beliefs are quite fascinating.

ivanban
Dec 17th, 2012, 11:09 PM
I'm not espousing a religious view here. I'm trying to understand the atheist worldview. I'm not seeking conversion but understanding.

I agree with your premise that human life should be treated with dignity. However, logically speaking if we are all here based upon random chance (according to the atheist worldview) we have no scientific basis to make the claim that we deserve better treatment than any other randomly produced thing on the planet. With that said, it seems in order to make a case for the value of treating others with "respect" atheist are borrowing from a worldview that says life is sacred and meaningful (or at least valuable). If we are just stardust returning to nothingness, why would it matter how anyone is treated?

For example, my grass doesn't complain in the summer when I cut it, or walk on it, or when my dog does his "business" on it. It's grass. Unless you can make the case that its lack of growth is in rebellion to my treatment, grass has no meaning other than the value given it by someone or something else.

Therefore if we all are stardust, with a meaningless life, going into nothingness, our "feelings" about the treatment from others is irrelevant. Our feelings only serve to tell us that our experience is not pleasurable. However, those feelings cannot inform us that anything is right or wrong (good or bad). The most we could do (based on the atheist worldview) Is to say that a particular behavior is not right for us. However, it couldn't be said that a particular behavior is wrong for anyone else since we are stardust going into nothingness (it doesn't matter). Right?

What about prehistoric people then? Or some indigenous tribe in the middle of some jungle, totally unaware of outside world? What was/is their meaning of life?!

The comparison with grass....:facepalm:

DomenicDemaria
Dec 18th, 2012, 07:40 AM
I will answer after the 21st of Dec when all of the seven seals have broken.

Cajka
Dec 18th, 2012, 07:46 AM
I went to a Russian Orthodox church service when I was in Russia. It was fascinating even though I don't know any Russian and I don't know Orthodox Christianity very well. I like Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy myself for cultural reasons.

Some of those services are really fascinating, I enjoy listening to a church choir although it's rare thing in Serbia. For me, there's a huge difference between Christianity as a religion and a culture related to Christianity. Some of the biggest artworks were inspired by religion, should we just dismiss them if we don't believe in God? Of course not.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:53 AM
Yes, I came from a long line of French and Italian Catholic families. The more I heard about the church through the years when I was growing up, the more ashamed I became of my heritage. I consider myself more spiritual than religious.

joy division
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:55 AM
You may ask yourself whether this world including all human thoughts will still exist when you are dead.
If you have the guts to face this as a serious question it can give you some worthy insights about your own and God`s existence.