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wild.river
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:09 PM
seeing this story?
the fucker died before he could get tortured in prison :mad:

fantic
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:14 PM
there's SO many shooting incidents in America I made a separate thread under gun control.

Vartan
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:14 PM
A friend just posted the article on FB... Terrible. We need tighter control. There is no reason why this keeps happening every month.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746051/Connecticut-school-shooting-Children-among-27-dead-at-Newton-elementary-school.html

FORZA SARITA
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:20 PM
that's terrible :(

Super Dave
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:21 PM
seeing this story?
the fucker died before he could get tortured in prison :mad:

Fucking bastard. This can happen anywhere. I heard about it a couple of hours ago but had no idea the toll until now.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:24 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-26-dead-after-lone-gunman-assaults-connecticut-elementary-school-official-says?lite

Twenty-six people were killed, including 18 children, when a gunman opened fire in a Connecticut elementary school Friday morning, a law enforcement official said.

The gunman, who is dead, was a 20-year-old from Connecticut, an official said. He was wearing all black and was carrying two 9mm handguns.

The incident sent crying children spilling into the school parking lot as frightened parents waited for word on their loved ones.

"I was in the gym and I heard a loud, like seven loud booms, and the gym teachers told us to go in the corner, so we all huddled," one student at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown told NBC Connecticut during its live broadcast. "And I kept hearing these booming noises. And we all … started crying.

"All the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us," she added. "So then a police officer came in and told us to run outside. So we did and we came in the firehouse and waited for our parents."

Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told WNBC's Jonathan Dienst.

Three people were taken to nearby Danbury Hospital, a spokeswoman told NBC Connecticut. She would not elaborate on the ages of the victims or their conditions.

One of those taken to the hospital was a teacher who had been shot in the foot, the Associated Press reported, citing a dispatcher at the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps.

The Newtown Bee reported that one child, apparently wounded, was carried from the scene by a police officer.

In a photo taken by the Bee, crying students could be seen being escorted from the school by police. They were taken to a nearby fire station where
their parents were picking them up.

A third-grader, Alexis Wasik, told the Hartford Courant that police checked students and staffers before they were escorted to the fire station.

"We had to walk with a partner," she said.

NBC Connecticut reported that the entire school district was in lockdown.

At Sandy Hook, police, ATF and FBI agents were going room to room searching the school.

President Obama was notified about the shooting and continues to receive updates, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

"I think it's important on a day like today to view this as I know the president, as a father does, and I as a father and others who are parents certainly do," Carney said at his daily briefing. "Which is to feel enormous sympathy for families that are affected."

Newtown is about 45 miles southwest of Hartford and 60 miles northeast of New York City.

The K-4 school has about 600 students.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:28 PM
The shooter was a 20 year old with ties to the school, that supposedly lives in New Jersey, and may potentially have a child at the school.

There is a second suspect that has been taken in for questioning.

Patrick345
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:30 PM
If Foxnews employed people with a brain or conscience they´d probably feel pretty shitty about tearing into Bob Costas riht about now after another tragedy, but soon they´ll be telling us that the guy also was an NFL linebacker and could have strangled/stabbed 20 people to death. The argument for the 2nd amendment is such an outdated part of the constitution.

Imperfect Angel
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:31 PM
:facepalm:

Sorry to hear about the kids who got affected.:awww: :hug:

Super Dave
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:31 PM
The shooter was a 20 year old with ties to the school, that supposedly lives in New Jersey, and may potentially have a child at the school.

There is a second suspect that has been taken in for questioning.

20 with a kid old enough to be in elementary school? :scared:

Patrick345
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:36 PM
20 with a kid old enough to be in elementary school? :scared:

Hey just because he knocks up girls at age 13 doesn´t mean he doesn´t possess the maturity to own handguns. :facepalm:

Maybe this will change something, but I doubt it.

Sammo
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Fucking horrible

MH0861
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:38 PM
I work with someone whose son goes to school there. We are all so relieved he is OK but the amount of people killed, especially children, is just sickening and so scary. When will we wake up and change the laws?

moby
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Exactly how many mass shootings do we need in a year before the US fixes its gun laws?
Cause apparently once a month is literally not enough.


Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan (https://twitter.com/piersmorgan) Any moment now, a gun nut will tweet me saying 'If all the kids in that school had been armed, the shooters would have been stopped...'

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:53 PM
AWFUL. We just had a shooting in the Mall and now this ?

antonella
Dec 14th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Looks like for some people, the World DID end in 2012.

Raiden
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:01 PM
This is horrific - apparently an entire kindergarten class has been wiped out

Tennisation
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:01 PM
Looks like for some people, the World DID end in 2012.Was this meant to be funny?

Shuji Shuriken
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:06 PM
Looks like for some people, the World DID end in 2012.
What a sick fuck you are. Not the least bit funny.

Novichok
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:06 PM
Just awful. :sad:

Tennisation
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:08 PM
This country is so fucking backward! We're liberals and conservatives in all the wrong places.
Gay marriage - not OK, threat to society
Owning a gun - totally OK, "personal protection"

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:10 PM
A body has been found in the house of the shooter. The shooter (a 20 year old man) apparently killed his own mother before going to the school.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Local news outlets report that the shooting occurred inside a kindergarten classroom, and that all the pupils in that classroom are unaccounted for.

There was a target. Going to be interesting to see who and why this class and the administrators at this school was targeted.

The shooter was in all black military gear.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:14 PM
So atleast 28 dead - 18 children, 8 school officials, the shooter and (most probably) his mom.

This is almost on the same scale as Virginia Tech (32 dead)

Women are so less fucked up than men.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:19 PM
Shooter identified as Ryan Lanza, a 24 year old male from CT. He may have had a child at the school.

HippityHop
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Exactly how many mass shootings do we need in a year before the US fixes its gun laws?
Cause apparently once a month is literally not enough.

This is sickening as are all of these shootings. The question is how do we fix the gun laws? And that's a serious question.

Mistress of Evil
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:26 PM
Obama is such a pussy coward. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS TRAVESTY ALREADY!

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:29 PM
The FATHER was found dead at his home in Hoboken. The mother works at the school in Newtown and was apparently the kindergarten teacher/class that Ryan targeted.

Morning Morgan
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:29 PM
Apparently the shooter did not shoot his mother in NJ. But his mother actually works at the school, and she is among the victims of the shooting.

Cilla
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:29 PM
Horrendous :sad:

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:31 PM
https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza

Twitter page of Ryan. Appears to have been a very unhappy person.

wild.river
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:33 PM
This is horrific - apparently an entire kindergarten class has been wiped out

ugh. devastating :sad:

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:33 PM
Ryan Lanza ‏@Ryan__Lanza (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza) i would actually love if the world ended in 2 weeks.. #fucklife (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23fucklife&src=hash)


OMG

The facebook/twitter generation is scary.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:36 PM
I think you can see from his twitter postings that this guy was disturbed and severely depressed. People close to him should have helped him deal with this.

Novichok
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:43 PM
Apparently the shooter did not shoot his mother in NJ. But his mother actually works at the school, and she is among the victims of the shooting.

I think he killed his father in NJ and then drove to Connecticut and killed his mother at the school.

New_balls_please
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Terrible news :sad:

égalité
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:55 PM
i want my bestfriend back.. why did everything have to change... again.. #missyoulots #wishyouwouldtxtback

#wishyouwouldtxtback --> murdering children? :unsure:

What the fuck is wrong with this generation?

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:56 PM
The shooter's name is RYAN LANZA and he lived in Hoboken, New Jersey. Supposedly he went to this school himself and he was born and raised in Newtown Connecticut.

https://www.facebook.com/rlanza

That is his facebook page.

wrong facebook page

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-GU_PwCUAAQgFA.png:large

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:57 PM
Supposedly that twitter page is the true Ryan yet the FB page is a fake page.

The media INTERVIEWING children and now digging for this FB page, which we know now isn't the real page of the shooter Ryan Lanza, highlights another problem with our society. Sensationalism. Nobody giving a real fuck about the well-being of others.

Inger67
Dec 14th, 2012, 06:59 PM
This is making me sick. I'm tired of living in a country that turns a blind eye to such an issue that has the capacity to put an end to so many lives.

Can't wait to hear what the NRA has to say about this.

Thoughts and deepest sympathies go out to all the families affected.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:01 PM
wrong facebook page
Yes, deleted the post. I'm sorry I posted that. And I'm very upset that the media would circulate this page without knowing whether or not that was the real Ryan Lanza. How disgusting.

Super Dave
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:03 PM
#wishyouwouldtxtback --> murdering children? :unsure:

What the fuck is wrong with this generation?

One observation ---

Not speaking for everyone, but a bunch of them are pussies. Pampered and spoiled by their parents and sheltered from the world. When actually faced with adversity, they snap. No personal accountability or responsibility. I see it in a bunch of my kids' friends; their parents have done everything for them and they never matured. They're like 5-year-old 17-year-olds. No jobs, no licenses, their parents give them everything. It's an epidemic.

Temperenka
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:04 PM
So depressed by this news.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:05 PM
The second suspect is reported to be Ryan Lanza's brother.

His tweets were a cry for help. Wish someone was paying attention.

moby
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:07 PM
This is sickening as are all of these shootings. The question is how do we fix the gun laws? And that's a serious question.Federal ban on guns. We'll see. Illinois just removed its virtual gun ban, we'll see if that makes things better or worse in Chicago.

Another way that works would be to ban ammo. Which makes guns useless, while not directly dealing with the 2nd amendment.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:08 PM
That is NOT his twitter account either Ryan Lanza ‏@Ryan__Lanza (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza) so aperently im getting spammed bc someone with the same name as me killed some ppl... wtf?
:speakles:

Either way this guy also needs help.

moby
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:09 PM
^Not every emo is a psycho.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:11 PM
^Not every emo is a psycho.

His tweets are disturbing.

Super Dave
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:11 PM
That is NOT his twitter account either :speakles:

:sobbing:

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Ryan Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in Connecticut.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:16 PM
That Ryan Lanza guy is still ill, and I hope he takes care of his issues. Unfortunately this will likely exacerbate them, being accused of a horrific episode he did not commit.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:19 PM
Media should never have been digging for the FB/Twitter pages of this creep. Why give a mass murderer attention? That is exactly what they want. Sensationalism.

Hug your loved one TIGHT today.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:21 PM
President Obama was genuinely soooo emotional. Wiping away tears. :sad:

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:21 PM
Media should never have been digging for the FB/Twitter pages of this creep. Why give a mass murderer attention? That is exactly what they want. Sensationalism.

Hug your loved one TIGHT today.

Why were you spreading the links then ?

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:23 PM
Obama could barely get through his speech without crying. This is something that is going to stick with us, I hope, for a long time. If you're a parent in the world I couldn't even imagine.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:23 PM
His brother also found dead in NJ ?

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:24 PM
Why were you spreading the links then ?Because CBS/NBC had said that was the Ryan Lanza who committed the crime. In retrospect I definitely made a huge mistake myself.

LeRoy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:26 PM
These "reporters" on CNN are making this into a story of Obama and his tears. Ugh I hate the news reporters sometimes.

Patrick345
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:31 PM
These "reporters" on CNN are making this into a story of Obama and his tears. Ugh I hate the news reporters sometimes.

I haven´t heard the word gun control once on CNN. The next parents, brothers, sisters, children of the next victims don´t need a crying president they need an acting president that makes a real effort to pass a gun control law against the long-term politcial calculations of his party. Wasn´t that his promise? Change and no politcal BS. There is no bigger politcal lobby BS than gun lobbyism. Sorry if this comes across as harsh. I´m sure his tears were genuine, but actions sadly speak louder than words in this case.

Morning Morgan
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:34 PM
I think we should all just wait for the official investigation reports from the authorities (NOT the media outlets). There are way too many rumors and speculations at this point. We already potentially have wrongly crucified two people who unfortunately share the same name as the killer.

Morning Morgan
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:35 PM
Obama hints at bringing the gun control issue into the forefront of national conversation, "regradless of the politics" I quote within quotation marks.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Now reports are saying the shooter may have been Adam Lanza, the younger brother of Ryan Lanza, and that Ryan Lanza is the man in custody.

I agree, not going to bother posting what the media says. They don't know what's going on. Wait until local reports come in.

wild.river
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:42 PM
the shooting began in this fucker's mother's classroom (she was a teacher at the school).

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 07:48 PM
The USA is by FAR the most mentally ill country out of developed countries in the Western world yet has the worst healthcare and the worst resources for mentally ill individuals. As well as the most stigma towards anyone who isn't healthy, anyone who feels anger/depression/confusion. We're a sick country and we become sicker, while the hate that is slung constantly by politicians and media figures makes the vulnerable in our country more libel to become disaffected enough to commit horiffic acts.

Talita Kumi
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:01 PM
R.I.P. :sad:

Bijoux0021
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:10 PM
This is making me sick. I'm tired of living in a country that turns a blind eye to such an issue that has the capacity to put an end to so many lives.

Can't wait to hear what the NRA has to say about this.

Thoughts and deepest sympathies go out to all the families affected.
As always, the NRA will probably say that everyone in the school should been carried a gun, including the children, so that they could have stopped the shooter before he killed so many people.

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:12 PM
^ answer is to create a new category of self-defense weapons for kids. maybe a modified taser you can fit in the lunchbox. you make schools safer and increase sales at the same time. we need to create solutions without harming the industry

Kon.
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:19 PM
This is disgusting and depressing.
Let's wait for the next one now.

moodin0931
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:19 PM
This is disgusting and this world is heading in the wrong direction :o :sad:

Bijoux0021
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:20 PM
^ answer is to create a new category of self-defense weapons for kids. maybe a modified taser you can fit in the lunchbox. you make schools safer and increase sales at the same time. we need to create solutions without harming the industry
:facepalm:

ys
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:24 PM
^ answer is to create a new category of self-defense weapons for kids. maybe a modified taser you can fit in the lunchbox. you make schools safer and increase sales at the same time. we need to create solutions without harming the industry

So kids could have fun during the breaks tasing each other?
The whole idea is sick.
E.g. what I saw in Israel is that everyone entering a school or a hospital goes through metal/weapon detector. Is it so awfully expensive to implement? Of course, then you'll have to do it in cinemas, amusement parks, anywhere where vulnerable crowds can be found.. I guess, those are the times.

wild.river
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:28 PM
As always, the NRA will probably say that everyone in the school should been carried a gun, including the children, so that they could have stopped the shooter before he killed so many people.

my guess: they fly under the radar with a "we deeply regret this senseless tragedy" and nothing more because the last thing they want is reopening the debate.

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:29 PM
This is disgusting and this world is heading in the wrong direction :o :sad:

actually most countries have some sort of gun control

*JR*
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:32 PM
Obama hints at bringing the gun control issue into the forefront of national conversation, "regardless of the politics".

He has not spent ten cents worth of "political capital" on this issue, even on the periphery (like closing the gun show loophole that allows sales without any kind of background check). Though by the emergency powers any POTUS has, he could.

For example, Dwight Eisenhower used the emergency powers of the office in 1957, in sending the troops to Little Rock, AR to enforce the integration of the public schools, which the then Guv was refusing to allow. I challenge his ardent loyalists on this board to echo what I just urged.

Barack Obama said in 2008 that he wanted 2B a "transformational President", not just a good one. I've long harped on 2 ways he could (ending the century long US habit of too many foreign interventions, and seriously moving the US away from Wall St "casino capitalism").

Severely curtailing the US "armed camp" mentality (including in inner cities BTW, :shout: those dead kids' lives counted too) is another area demanding a truly transformational President. (Not just a "first this identity group, first that one", etc).

NyCPsU
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:33 PM
I can confirm there is a crime scene in Hoboken potentially related to this crime. I just walked by it on my way home. Tons of reporters and police on site.

Bijoux0021
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM
I can confirm there is a crime scene in Hoboken potentially related to this crime. I just walked by it on my way home. Tons of reporters and police on site.
There have been reports that the shooter is from New Jersey and apparently shot a family member there before he went to the school in Connecticut to kill his mother, 20 children and a total of 6 adults.

Andy.
Dec 14th, 2012, 08:54 PM
What a tragedy. I feel sick thinking about this. Thee poor people and their families. Surely this is yet another example why much tougher gun control needs to happen in America and needs to happen soon. How many more of these incidents do we need.

fantic
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:08 PM
I haven´t heard the word gun control once on CNN. The next parents, brothers, sisters, children of the next victims don´t need a crying president they need an acting president that makes a real effort to pass a gun control law against the long-term politcial calculations of his party. Wasn´t that his promise? Change and no politcal BS. There is no bigger politcal lobby BS than gun lobbyism. Sorry if this comes across as harsh. I´m sure his tears were genuine, but actions sadly speak louder than words in this case.

Absolutely. This is a perfect issue in which he could leave his legacy, since he doesn't have to worry about reelection (unlike other politicians who're afraid of NRA :sobbing: )

About the bolded part, LBJ did that, on race matter, even though his action would kill Democratic Party in the South. He himself acknowledged it.

NyCPsU
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:12 PM
[Updated at 4:54 p.m. ET] We are now being told there was no body found in the Hoboken, New Jersey, home as had been previously reported.

From CNN. Thats definitely the scene I walked by.

kwilliams
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:15 PM
Those poor families. What could possibly drive someone to lash out so violently against such innocents?

Please do something about gun control, Obama. You're the man to do it!

Or Levy
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:19 PM
So kids could have fun during the breaks tasing each other?
The whole idea is sick.
E.g. what I saw in Israel is that everyone entering a school or a hospital goes through metal/weapon detector. Is it so awfully expensive to implement? Of course, then you'll have to do it in cinemas, amusement parks, anywhere where vulnerable crowds can be found.. I guess, those are the times.

That's not true. Hospitals - yeah. No metal detectors in school entrances, there's a guard, though, who will not let an adult enter without depositing ID, explaining why he's there/a parent...

But Israel have very strict gun control. You have to have a good reason to carry a gun, self defense, unless you're living in a dangerous zone (and lets not get into what is considered to be dangerous, also depends on the amount of terrorism in that area) doesn't apply. And civilian would never get a permission to use a rifle.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:24 PM
People keep talking gun control and ignoring the people who have the guns in their hands that pull the trigger. So easy. So political.

fantic
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:28 PM
That's not true. Hospitals - yeah. No metal detectors in school entrances, there's a guard, though, who will not let an adult enter without depositing ID, explaining why he's there/a parent...

But Israel have very strict gun control. You have to have a good reason to carry a gun, self defense, unless you're living in a dangerous zone (and lets not get into what is considered to be dangerous, also depends on the amount of terrorism in that area) doesn't apply. And civilian would never get a permission to use a rifle.

Even Israel has tougher gun control laws than America :tape:

Thx for the info

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Absolutely. This is a perfect issue in which he could leave his legacy, since he doesn't have to worry about reelection (unlike other politicians who're afraid of NRA :sobbing: )

About the bolded part, LBJ did that, on race matter, even though his action would kill Democratic Party in the South. He himself acknowledged it.

a crying president is better than a dead president :cool:

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:36 PM
The American family unit has completely disintegrated. I know that's a conservative talking point, but when the divorce rate is 50%, separation rate is even larger, and less than 50% of people are marrying, you're a country that has severe problems. Babies are being popped out, and parents have NO FUCKING CLUE how to be parents these days.

Bijoux0021
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:43 PM
Those poor families. What could possibly drive someone to lash out so violently against such innocents?

Please do something about gun control, Obama. You're the man to do it!
Sadly, politicians are afraid of the NRA.

President Obama has nothing to lose in his last term, so he needs to stand up them now.

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:45 PM
Sadly, politicians are afraid of the NRA.

President Obama has nothing to lose in his last term, so he needs to stand up them now.

he has a lot to lose. take on gun lobby and you take some of the craziest redneck loons in the country

Roookie
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:48 PM
I can't believe this has happened.

Or Levy
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:49 PM
Even Israel has tougher gun control laws than America :tape:

Thx for the info

Sometimes people don't get it, because Israel has mandatory service, and obviously Israeli soldiers don't go overseas like the states for examples, so even combat soldiers come home for the weekend every two-three weeks, and they come home with their rifles. So you are used to seeing weapons often in Israel, but those are soldiers carrying them, not civilians, unless their job requires that, etc.

fantic
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:49 PM
a crying president is better than a dead president :cool:

he has a lot to lose. take on gun lobby and you take some of the craziest redneck loons in the country

You mean Obama might be assassinated (by gun) for advancing gun control? Well, it IS USA, so it's not altogether impossible..(just look at the 1960s, in which 4 prominent members were shot to death;JFK,RFK,MLK,Malcolm X)

Vartan
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Ugh :o so tired of the scum that lives in our society.

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 09:59 PM
Obama has a lot to lose, but more than anything, Democrats have a lot to lose, and they know it. Democrats have the power right now. Gun rights are NOT a popular issue to talk about in this country. It's going to take courage for Obama and the Dems to push the issue. Blue Dog Democrats aren't going to push it. It's going to take liberals. And more than that, it's going to take basically a social war against our gun laws.

azdaja
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:00 PM
Please do something about gun control, Obama. You're the man to do it!
i do not think he is to be honest. the most vehement supporters of the right to carry a gun are from the right wing and he is considered extremely leftist, being black and all :rolleyes: the situation is pretty much hopeless as it is now imo.

i don't know how many children need to get killed before people in the us start addressing all the problems of their society properly and without the perversely passionate love for the economic system we all live in.

it's always shocking to hear about children being killed. but how many shooting rampages in the us have happened since i know for myself? at some point it becomes a fact of life in heads of so many people, just like violence in the middle east or some parts of africa. it's just sad.

tennisbum79
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Obama is such a pussy coward. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS TRAVESTY ALREADY!
Obama can't do it by himself. Congress is they key.

Most thinking people already know what Obama's position is about gun control.
Congressmen are all afraid of the NRA, should Obama propose legislation, speaker Bohener will never bring it up for a vote.
If, by some miracle, the speaker brings up such legislation, it will not pass.
The fear of being the target of the NRA, Tea Party is too great for a US congressman/woman to take that risk.
Not to forget, FOXNews and Sarah palin will put a bulleye on each congressional district where the representative vote for such legislation.


It will take more than jus the president. It will take courage from the the US House and Senate to do somehting about it.

HippityHop
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:08 PM
The American family unit has completely disintegrated. I know that's a conservative talking point, but when the divorce rate is 50%, separation rate is even larger, and less than 50% of people are marrying, you're a country that has severe problems. Babies are being popped out, and parents have NO FUCKING CLUE how to be parents these days.

You better watch yourself. Somebody's going to accuse you of being a right wing nut job.

NoppaNoppa
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:17 PM
F* pussy. Ppl should have gone medivel on him!

aussiesharapova
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:19 PM
ugh, i cannot believe this has happened. R.I.P :(

miffedmax
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:19 PM
In Dallas, kids have to go through metal detectors in junior high and high school--and yes, they find stuff all the time.

Not elementary schools, though. And I don't think suburban districts typically have as much security in place as urban districts. In some ways, with metal detectors and full-time, armed police, inner city schools are actually more "hardened targets" for this type of crime. Not that they don't have their own issues.

And of course, one reason a lot of people move to the suburbs is for the schools and to get away from an environment where metal detectors find guns, knives, drug paraphenalia, etc. in backpacks fairly frequently. I suspect setting up metal detectors at suburban schools would not be well-recieved, just because it sends the message we're like "those" schools.

I'm justing musing, as some posters were asking about security at schools.

This is horrible.

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:21 PM
If they did nothing about guns after Columbine, none of these incidents will make a difference

tennisbum79
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:25 PM
And of course, one reason a lot of people move to the suburbs is for the schools and to get away from an environment where metal detectors find guns, knives, drug paraphenalia, etc. in backpacks fairly frequently. I suspect setting up metal detectors at suburban schools would not be well-recieved, just because it sends the message we're like "those" schools..

Very insightful.
When you read between the lines, that is what "it is not supposed to happened here" means.
It is supposed to happen to "those other schools", read urban, inner city schools.

fantic
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:25 PM
If they did nothing about guns after Columbine, none of these incidents will make a difference

Sad but probably true..

"U.S. NEWS Updated July 22, 2012, 1:56 p.m. ET
Few Politicians Call for Gun-Control Changes (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444025204577543033015396416.html)

By JESS BRAVIN And JAMILA TRINDLE

The congressman from Aurora, Colo., called on Congress to reinstate a federal ban on assault weapons Sunday as police continued their investigation into the mass shooting at cinema in the Denver suburb that left 12 people dead.

"We've got to do something," said Rep. Ed. Perlmutter, a Democrat, speaking on CBS's "Face the Nation."

But only a smattering of politicians, mainly Democrats, joined him in demanding a legislative response to the massacre, in which suspect James Holmes allegedly unleashed an arsenal of legally bought weapons on an auditorium packed with fans watching the premiere of the latest Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises."

"It's time for this country to do something and that's the job of the president of the United States," New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said on "Face the Nation."

While expressing remorse for the victims and outrage at the violence, neither President Barack Obama nor his Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, has asserted that easy access to firearms and ammunition had contributed to the massacre.

To the contrary, many Democrats avoided any suggestion that gun laws should be tightened, while some Republicans speculated that more lives could have been saved had some audience members drawn weapons themselves and returned fire in the theater.

Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said that restrictions on guns impede people's freedoms and aren't effective.

"I don't think society can keep sick, demented individuals from obtaining any type of weapon to kill people," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "Any person who wants to harm another individual is going to find a method of doing that," he said.

Mr. Holmes's Aurora apartment had been booby-trapped with explosives, authorities said.

"If it wasn't one weapon, it would have been another. I mean, he was diabolical," Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, a Democrat, said on CNN's "State of the Union." "If there were no assault weapons available, and no this or no that, this guy is going to find something, right? He's going to know how to create a bomb."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.), speaking on "Fox News Sunday," said there was no legitimate use for assault weapons on American streets. "These are weapons that you're only going to use to kill people in close combat—that's the purpose of that weapon," she said.

Sen. Feinstein had championed the federal assault-weapons ban after a gunman used such a weapon to kill eight people at a San Francisco law office in 1993. The ban expired in 2004."

—Daniel Lippman contributed to this article.
Write to Jess Bravin at jess.bravin@wsj.com and Jamila Trindle at jamila.trindle@dowjones.com

Tennisation
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:27 PM
It is easier to own a gun than it is to vote (just ask the people of Florida)...only in America.

NoppaNoppa
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:27 PM
Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#2010s

December 14, 2012 (Newtown, Connecticut school shooting) Adam Lanza, age 20, killed 20 children and 7 adults, including his mother who worked at the school, before committing suicide.

So final count is 27 humans + 1 madman.

wild.river
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:29 PM
http://dayssincemassshooting.com/

what a society we live in

NoppaNoppa
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:34 PM
http://dayssincemassshooting.com/

what a society we live in

Finland still second.... :tape:

RVD
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:37 PM
Absolutely horrible.
I've worked with Kindergarteners for over 20+ years, and there is just no way that a sane person could do this to defenseless children who are just starting out in life.
What's worse is that these types shootings are increasing!
I'm no gun advocate, and I believe in the right to protect oneself.
But when there are children and teens loosing their lives every month due to one type of weapon, then the answer to controlling this is obvious---

Far tighter gun control laws, with stringent psychological background checks.
These poor dead children and their families will be forever affected and they deserve the federal government's intervention since the states are completely lacking.

Melange
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:50 PM
We assume the NRA are sane

Flavia P.
Dec 14th, 2012, 10:50 PM
And of course, one reason a lot of people move to the suburbs is for the schools and to get away from an environment where metal detectors find guns, knives, drug paraphenalia, etc. in backpacks fairly frequently. I suspect setting up metal detectors at suburban schools would not be well-recieved, just because it sends the message we're like "those" schools.
Yes. And let's call it exactly what that mentality is. Classism. And at least with some, if not with most, racism. Classism and racism.

Crunchy Booboo
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:05 PM
Jesus, please come back soon!!

NoppaNoppa
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:06 PM
Hope this helps. One bit. You are not alone!

In memory (Jokela massacre)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlpbOO86C34

Elwin.
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Poor people and poor kids. I saw pics of kids crying. They must be traumatized. Who does something like that? I'm almost crying. I would go crazy if something like that happened at my Elementary


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

NoppaNoppa
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Poor people and poor kids. I saw pics of kids crying. They must be traumatized.
Tell me about it... Yes, kids are traumatized. For life :sad:

tucker1989
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:27 PM
Adam Lanza's mother was killed AT HOME. It was at her home in Hoboken where she was killed by Ryan. He shot her in the face. Then he drove to the school and shot school administration, and reportedly, the class his mother taught.

This is not true. The mother lived in Newtown, where she was killed at home. The only person who lives in Hoboken is Ryan Lanza, Adam's brother, who does not seem connected to the crime at all, except that Adam was carrying his ID when he carried out the attack, and there was no crime in Hoboken.

Wiggly
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:48 PM
Both the father and the brother appear to be innocent are aren't involved in any way.

It seems the gunman shot his mother in the face then drove to the school, went into his mother's kindergarden class and shot everyone in that particular classroom. Some victims are from another class but most of the shooting was in that area.

There isn't a single survivor from his mother's class.

Media coverage was all over the place.
The brother, Ryan, could potentially sue for millions.

tennisbum79
Dec 14th, 2012, 11:58 PM
Both the father and the brother appear to be innocent are aren't involved in any way.

It seems the gunman shot his mother in the face then drove to the school, went into his mother's kindergarden class and shot everyone in that particular classroom. Some victims are from another class but most of the shooting was in that area.

There isn't a single survivor from his mother's class.
It must be true what a pyschologyst said on MSNBC.
He so hated his mother that he was determined to wipe out not only her, but evertyhing she ever loved in her life; and psychologyst felt the mother must have love those kids a lot and son probably resented it.

*JR*
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:02 AM
You mean Obama might be assassinated (by gun) for advancing gun control? Well, it IS USA, so it's not altogether impossible..(just look at the 1960s, in which 4 prominent members were shot to death;JFK,RFK,MLK,Malcolm X)

That would be absolutely awful, but its a risk he and everyone else even slightly left of center (like Bill Clinton, who was the target of a couple of plots that were made public) takes if elected, which doesn't deter most would-be Presidents from avidly seeking the job.

Reagan was shot and Ford shot @ by "ordinary nut jobs", JFK by ???, Truman targeted by a Puerto Rican nationalist, FDR officially by an anarchist who killed a Chicago Mayor next to him in Miami, though that may have really been a mob hit on (Mayor Cermack). 3 earlier US Presidents were killed in office, of course.

Meanwhile, US Presidents send young ppl to face possible death by gun or bomb in a wide variety of wars (mostly undeclared, like the "police action" in Korea 1950-53). And since Nixon ended the draft 40 years ago, its often said that they knowingly took said risk by enlisting. So does anybody who runs for POTUS.

Wiggly
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:03 AM
The Facebook information posted in this thread belong to the shooter's brother who wasn't aware of the incident at the time. Wow.

Vartan
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:05 AM
The argument that it's people who kill and not guns was proven wrong by the Chinese slashing.

PatrickRyan
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:06 AM
It's sad to think, they sent their children off to school this morning, where you would think they would be safe. Now 20 sets of families will not have their kids coming back home. Especially sad right before Christmas.

Gagsquet
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:07 AM
I'm furious and sad. all people supporting this disgraceful second amendment should not sleep well tonight. And members of NRA (and likewise organizations) consolidated their ticket to hell.

NoppaNoppa
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:15 AM
[QUOTE=Gagsquet;22587836]Mmembers of NRA (and likewise organizations) comfort their ticket to hell.

Die hippie,die! Who made you God? There are circa 100 000 moose in heeeere. One year and there are 200 000. Who made you God?

taloki
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:24 AM
This is so sad and awful.... WHY?!?! :sad:

Wiggly
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Asssuming there's more than one class per "level", these children will reminded for years to come that there's one class missing. Chilling.

JN
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:30 AM
This is heartbreaking.

CrossCourt~Rally
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:42 AM
Heartbreaking... :hug:

Morning Morgan
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:55 AM
It is a very small number of Americans affected by mass shootings.

100 killed a year by mass shooting / 300,000,000 Americans = 0.00003% of Americans killed by mass shooting a year.

Oh please, such a MISLEADING and BAD use of statistics here. 300 million Americans don't die each year. You should be taking it as a percentage of Americans who die annually of unnatural causes. And seriously, what are trying to allude using your statistics? That this is not a big problem, that we are somehow being paranoid and blowing up the problem disproportionately? Really?? If you're an internet troll, just stop trolling for one day. And if you're like that in real life, then fuck you.

I think what made this tragedy extra hard is that so many young children died. As Obama said, they had their entire lives ahead of them, they have not even figured out themselves yet, but had their lives wrenched away so swiftly and suddenly. Tragic.

Novichok
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:06 AM
Oh please, such a MISLEADING and BAD use of statistics here. 300 million Americans don't die each year. You should be taking it as a percentage of Americans who die annually.

I think what made this tragedy extra hard is that so many young children died. As Obama said, they had their entire lives ahead of them, they have not even figured out themselves yet, but had their lives wrenched away so swiftly and suddenly. Tragic.

Also the people who die aren't the only ones affected. :sad:

JN
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Oh please, such a MISLEADING and BAD use of statistics here. 300 million Americans don't die each year. You should be taking it as a percentage of Americans who die annually of unnatural causes. And seriously, what are trying to allude using your statistics? That this is not a big problem, that we are somehow being paranoid and blowing up the problem disproportionately? Really?? If you're an internet troll, just stop trolling for one day. And if you're like that in real life, then fuck you.

I think what made this tragedy extra hard is that so many young children died. As Obama said, they had their entire lives ahead of them, they have not even figured out themselves yet, but had their lives wrenched away so swiftly and suddenly. Tragic.

Morning Morgan meet Williamsser. No development escapes his perverse spin doctoring.

Super Dave
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:24 AM
It's on 20/20 right now...I'm just numb.

cowsonice
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:28 AM
When I first heard the news, I just thought "another shooting?!" and nothing really registered in my mind like Virginia Tech or Aurora did.

I think my lack of reaction goes to show that these massacres are becoming increasingly common (not like every 3 years or so anymore, and the title of "most gruesome" changes with every shooting)

tennisbum79
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:35 AM
When I first heard the news, I just thought "another shooting?!" and nothing really registered in my mind like Virginia Tech or Aurora did.

I think my lack of reaction goes to show that these massacres are becoming increasingly common (not like every 3 years or so anymore, and the title of "most gruesome" changes with every shooting)
Sadly, you are not alone.
It has also become all too common for polticians to limit their reaction to "this tragedy should not be an excuse to challenge the 2nd amendment".
It is if expressing true sorrow for the tragedy is like endorsing gun control, and they can't be seen (by the NRA) doing that, especially on camera

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:44 AM
The argument that it's people who kill and not guns was proven wrong by the Chinese slashing.Exactly. 0 dead in China. 27 dead in Connecticut. Do the math. Plus it's obviously easier to bring down someone when they have a knife, then with a gun, so that automatically will stifle some individuals from committing such barbaric acts. Let alone there is more time for medics to come in and save any injured victims.

But gun hawks do not give a damn about any of this. Anyway, the focus shouldn't be guns vs knives, it should be on preventing any sort of horrific crime of this manner.

Wiggly
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:48 AM
The poor guy was working as a tax accountant in Times Square when he heard the news.

Morning Morgan
Dec 15th, 2012, 02:59 AM
If Martin Luther King thought the same way as you America would have been a mess. Change takes time, but it does not happen spontaneously solely due to the passage of time. It starts somewhere, with the deliberate efforts of some people, to bring about awareness, and to culminate in a final change.

As MLK says, "time is always ripe to do right." Let's start now.

tennisbum79
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:02 AM
The second amendment has very little chance of being repealed. That requires a two-thirds majority in both Houses, followed by a three-fourths majority of state legislatures. So, why politicize the tragedy for something that won't happen?
I and others advocating gun control are NOT calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment.
Sensible gun control can be put in place w/o threatening the 2nd amendment.

The problem is, any kind of gun control proposal is met by gun lobby (and politicains they support) as a threat to the 2nd amendment.
The lobby does not allow reasonable background check, anyone can buy a gun at gun shows.
Private citizen can own military type high power guns

Rocketta
Dec 15th, 2012, 03:32 AM
:sobbing:

RIP, I will send nothing but positive healing thoughts out for the family and friends of the killed and the children, family and friends who will be effected by this because it's not just limited to those 28 people. :tears:

Honestly, sometimes in life the only appropriate things to say are positive ones... and this is the time. Today is one of those days! Do you have any idea what a scene of 20 5 year olds shot dead must look like? Do you understand that every parent is now just that much more scarred and worried that someone will harm their child? Do you think when I saw this story, my first thoughts were about the NRA, Obama, or Politics? No, I cried and looked at my 3 year old, kissed her and ached for EVERYONE involved and wondered how anyone will be able to drop off their child at school tomorrow with an extra ache in their bones and an extra flutter of their heart?

Maybe, those of you who have to discuss what politicians should do, what the NRA is going to say, TODAY who gives a FUCK! Babies were murdered today and there are many reasons it happened and many people to blame. Maybe change doesn't start at the top, maybe it starts with looking in the mirror and thinking about what YOU can do, and keeping negative thoughts to yourself for just TODAY.


“And perhaps there is a limit to the grieving that the human heart can do. As when one adds salt to a tumbler of water, there comes a point where simply no more will be absorbed.”
― Sarah Waters (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/25334.Sarah_Waters), The Little Stranger (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/5769396)



and anyone who feeds the troll named Williamsser are made of the same cloth.

I will end with the same positive vibe....

:sobbing:

RIP, I will send nothing but positive healing thoughts out for the family and friends of the killed and the children, family and friends who will be effected by this because it's not just limited to those 28 people. :tears:

“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.”
― Rumi (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/875661.Rumi)

Charlatan
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:23 AM
Appalling! Beyond shattered! Imagine all these parents arranging funeral for their kids who were shot instead of having x'mas celebration at this time of year :sad:

I have no idea how many of the innocent people's lives will be sacrificed more before a stricter reform on gun control is implemented

njnetswill
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:28 AM
Can't believe that some pro-gun people are talking about arming schoolteachers. I am friends with many schoolteachers and none of them are comfortable with the idea of having a handgun in their desk while they teach.

Ashi
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:57 AM
OMG! :speakles:
This kind of situation is like a nightmare that keeps on reoccuring.
I still don't get why civilians are allowed to purchase arms & ammunition, inspite of US history.
Can't you do the same in Canada? Why is it that we don't find such incidents there?
RIP.

NashaMasha
Dec 15th, 2012, 05:13 AM
in Russia we have gun control and it's impossible to buy any gun except for hunting having a license ...

But it doesn't work either , http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2229096/Dmitry-Vinogradov-Shoots-dead-people-ex-girlfriend-work-Moscow.html

only policemen in bulletproof vests and with machine guns at schools can be helpful , like in Israel

Valanga
Dec 15th, 2012, 05:16 AM
Nothing can guarantee there would not be any shooting incidents or massacres. But at least we should do our best to minimise the chances of happening.

Ashi
Dec 15th, 2012, 05:16 AM
Can't believe that some pro-gun people are talking about arming schoolteachers. I am friends with many schoolteachers and none of them are comfortable with the idea of having a handgun in their desk while they teach.
:help: :tape:

Rocketta
Dec 15th, 2012, 05:48 AM
“When Great Trees Fall

When great trees fall,
rocks on distant hills shudder,
lions hunker down
in tall grasses,
and even elephants
lumber after safety.

When great trees fall
in forests,
small things recoil into silence,
their senses
eroded beyond fear.

When great souls die,
the air around us becomes
light, rare, sterile.
We breathe, briefly.
Our eyes, briefly,
see with
a hurtful clarity.
Our memory, suddenly sharpened,
examines,
gnaws on kind words
unsaid,
promised walks
never taken.

Great souls die and
our reality, bound to
them, takes leave of us.
Our souls,
dependent upon their
nurture,
now shrink, wizened.
Our minds, formed
and informed by their
radiance,
fall away.
We are not so much maddened
as reduced to the unutterable ignorance
of dark, cold
caves.

And when great souls die,
after a period peace blooms,
slowly and always
irregularly. Spaces fill
with a kind of
soothing electric vibration.
Our senses, restored, never
to be the same, whisper to us.
They existed. They existed.
We can be. Be and be
better. For they existed.”
― Maya Angelou (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3503.Maya_Angelou)

Charlatan
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:33 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-I3FNCCIAA22iB.jpg

Williamsser
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:17 AM
stricter reform on gun control is implemented

Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in the nation, but is among the most violent cities.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/chicago-shootings-spike-49-november-despite-strict-gun-laws

Chicago Shootings Spike 49% In November Despite Strict Gun Laws

There were 192 shootings in Chicago throughout the month of November - a 49 percent increase from a year earlier - according to police records obtained by the Chicago Tribune.

In November of 2011, Chicago recorded 129 shootings compared to the 192 shootings this November. Police records also reveal that shootings increased more than 11 percent in the first 11 months of 2012 compared with a year earlier.

Total homicides in Chicago rose to 480 for the first eleven months of 2012; a 21 percent increase from last year. On November 30, 2012, there were four fatal shootings within the city. These murders brought the homicide total to 38 for the month, just above the 37 recorded in November of last year.

Despite having some of the strictest gun laws in the country, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel plans on restricting gun ownership further by banning individuals with a violent misdemeanor conviction from getting a gun permit for five years. The mayor also hopes to ban convicted felons from ever owning a gun.

Emanuel's intentions are no doubt well intentioned, but like many cities with strict gun laws, the disarming of law-abiding citizens doesn't remove guns from the hands of those who wish to do harm. On the contrary, it often leaves innocent victims vulnerable to criminals.

debby
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Oh god :sad: I am getting so emotional from reading the news, watching Obama's moving speech and reading some posts here...
I hate this world sometimes. :sad: I can't wait to hug my niece next week. I can't imagine anyone would shoot her :sad: :sad: and she is 3 years old.... Some of these kids were not much older :sad: :sad: I can't believe it.

A very sad day. All my thoughts go to the affected families.

Kon.
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Fucking bastard. This can happen anywhere. I heard about it a couple of hours ago but had no idea the toll until now.

But it usually happens in the US.

pierce85
Dec 15th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Every second the US continues to keep these stupid, Third-world gun laws they become accomplices to more murders.

Their governments throughout the years have basically chosen to sacrifice some children every few years in order to keep some people happy, pathetic...

Start da Game
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:03 PM
that moronic gun law has caused such damage to their country that it is beyond any help now......these incidents will continue to happen as long as they encourage citizens to possess guns......

some moron in their govt is still supporting the gun law as i check the cnn news......what kind of a country is it to be asking its citizens to carry guns to protect themselves?

Williamsser
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:04 PM
that moronic gun law has caused such damage to their country that it is beyond any help now......these incidents will continue to happen as long as they encourage citizens to possess guns......

some moron in their govt is still supporting the gun law as i check the cnn news......what kind of a country is it which asks its citizens to carry guns to protect themselves?

If US laws are so bad, then why do millions want to immigrate to the US?

Melange
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Quit it sicko

Start da Game
Dec 15th, 2012, 01:13 PM
If US laws are so bad, then why do millions want to immigrate to the US?

that won't be the case anymore if things like this continue to happen.....

Vartan
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:16 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/teacher-victoria-soto-threw-herself-in-front-of-her-students-to-save-them-at-sandy-hook-elementary-school/story-fnddckzi-1226537530317

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/12/15/1226537/551351-victoria-sotio.jpg


Miss Soto, 27, was one of three teachers murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School today.

Police also identified the school's principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, and school psychologist Mary Sherlach, 56, as three out of the eight adults who were killed.

They lost their lives when alleged gunman Adam Lanza, went on a shooting rampage before shooting himself.

Miss Soto sacrificed herself to save her students - throwing her body in front of the young children, the MailOnline reports.

Diane Day, a school therapist, told the Wall Street Journal that she and several other teachers were in a meeting with Mrs Hochsprung and Mrs Sherlach when the shooting began.
They were meeting to discuss a second-grader, AP reports.

"We were there for about five minutes chatting, and we heard Pop! Pop!, Pop!" Day said.

"I went under the table."


Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in Newtown, Conn. (AP Photo/Eliza Hallabeck): NEWTOWN BEE Source: AP


But Hochsprung and the psychologist leaped out of their seats and ran out of the room, Day recalled. "They didn't think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on," she said.


A friend posted a tribute to Miss Soto on her Tumblr account. In her tribute she wrote: "I talked to Vicki Tuesday and she told me that she loved her 16 angels and never wanted to let them go. Today when the shooting started Vicki hid her kids in closets and when the gunman came into her room she told them the class was in gym. She was then murdered. Not one of her students were harmed. Words can not express how heartbreaking and tragic this is. I will miss you dearly."

On Twitter, her friends also posted their tributes. Taneka Alisha wrote: "Saddened to learn that someone I went to high school with died today in the shooting. My god. #RIP Victoria Soto."

Another Twitter user, James Campbell, wrote: "My mom's co-worker's friend died in the Newtown shooting today. She was a first grade teacher. RIP Victoria Soto #PrayerForNewtown"

Sherlach, 56, was school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School and was one year away from retirement, according to local US reports.

She and her husband Bill were looking forward to spending more time on Owasco Lake during her retirement.

Her son Eric Schwartz, a freelance writer, found out about her death from watching the news after they were contacted by his wife Maura's sister, Katie.

"She was saying 'turn on the news, turn on the news,' " Eric Schwartz recalled.

moby
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:24 PM
If US laws are so bad, then why do millions want to immigrate to the US?Why do so many Republicans think in terms of black and white?

There are very admirable and attractive elements of American society (such as openness, dynamism and diversity, particularly in the major US cities, unfortunately these are things that an unfortunate faction of Americans are trying to eradicate). The millions wanting to immigrate to the US want to move to places like NYC, LA, Chicago, not Podunk, Montana.

Also, America is not perfect, and the gun laws are an example of that. And one should be able to criticise the problematic areas of a society.

Elwin.
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:35 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/teacher-victoria-soto-threw-herself-in-front-of-her-students-to-save-them-at-sandy-hook-elementary-school/story-fnddckzi-1226537530317

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/12/15/1226537/551351-victoria-sotio.jpg


Miss Soto, 27, was one of three teachers murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School today.

Police also identified the school's principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, and school psychologist Mary Sherlach, 56, as three out of the eight adults who were killed.

They lost their lives when alleged gunman Adam Lanza, went on a shooting rampage before shooting himself.

Miss Soto sacrificed herself to save her students - throwing her body in front of the young children, the MailOnline reports.

Diane Day, a school therapist, told the Wall Street Journal that she and several other teachers were in a meeting with Mrs Hochsprung and Mrs Sherlach when the shooting began.
They were meeting to discuss a second-grader, AP reports.

"We were there for about five minutes chatting, and we heard Pop! Pop!, Pop!" Day said.

"I went under the table."


Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in Newtown, Conn. (AP Photo/Eliza Hallabeck): NEWTOWN BEE Source: AP


But Hochsprung and the psychologist leaped out of their seats and ran out of the room, Day recalled. "They didn't think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on," she said.


A friend posted a tribute to Miss Soto on her Tumblr account. In her tribute she wrote: "I talked to Vicki Tuesday and she told me that she loved her 16 angels and never wanted to let them go. Today when the shooting started Vicki hid her kids in closets and when the gunman came into her room she told them the class was in gym. She was then murdered. Not one of her students were harmed. Words can not express how heartbreaking and tragic this is. I will miss you dearly."

On Twitter, her friends also posted their tributes. Taneka Alisha wrote: "Saddened to learn that someone I went to high school with died today in the shooting. My god. #RIP Victoria Soto."

Another Twitter user, James Campbell, wrote: "My mom's co-worker's friend died in the Newtown shooting today. She was a first grade teacher. RIP Victoria Soto #PrayerForNewtown"

Sherlach, 56, was school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School and was one year away from retirement, according to local US reports.

She and her husband Bill were looking forward to spending more time on Owasco Lake during her retirement.

Her son Eric Schwartz, a freelance writer, found out about her death from watching the news after they were contacted by his wife Maura's sister, Katie.

"She was saying 'turn on the news, turn on the news,' " Eric Schwartz recalled.
Amazing teacher. I think every teacher would do the same, i would

Imperfect Angel
Dec 15th, 2012, 04:39 PM
So how does the guy actually look like?:confused: and no confirmed profile of him yet?:confused:

Valanga
Dec 15th, 2012, 05:03 PM
If US laws are so bad, then why do millions want to immigrate to the US?

WOW. How can you be that defensive :tape:?

Patrick345
Dec 15th, 2012, 06:58 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/teacher-victoria-soto-threw-herself-in-front-of-her-students-to-save-them-at-sandy-hook-elementary-school/story-fnddckzi-1226537530317

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/12/15/1226537/551351-victoria-sotio.jpg


Miss Soto, 27, was one of three teachers murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School today.

Police also identified the school's principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, and school psychologist Mary Sherlach, 56, as three out of the eight adults who were killed.

They lost their lives when alleged gunman Adam Lanza, went on a shooting rampage before shooting himself.

Miss Soto sacrificed herself to save her students - throwing her body in front of the young children, the MailOnline reports.

Diane Day, a school therapist, told the Wall Street Journal that she and several other teachers were in a meeting with Mrs Hochsprung and Mrs Sherlach when the shooting began.
They were meeting to discuss a second-grader, AP reports.

"We were there for about five minutes chatting, and we heard Pop! Pop!, Pop!" Day said.

"I went under the table."


Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in Newtown, Conn. (AP Photo/Eliza Hallabeck): NEWTOWN BEE Source: AP


But Hochsprung and the psychologist leaped out of their seats and ran out of the room, Day recalled. "They didn't think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on," she said.


A friend posted a tribute to Miss Soto on her Tumblr account. In her tribute she wrote: "I talked to Vicki Tuesday and she told me that she loved her 16 angels and never wanted to let them go. Today when the shooting started Vicki hid her kids in closets and when the gunman came into her room she told them the class was in gym. She was then murdered. Not one of her students were harmed. Words can not express how heartbreaking and tragic this is. I will miss you dearly."

On Twitter, her friends also posted their tributes. Taneka Alisha wrote: "Saddened to learn that someone I went to high school with died today in the shooting. My god. #RIP Victoria Soto."

Another Twitter user, James Campbell, wrote: "My mom's co-worker's friend died in the Newtown shooting today. She was a first grade teacher. RIP Victoria Soto #PrayerForNewtown"

Sherlach, 56, was school psychologist at Sandy Hook Elementary School and was one year away from retirement, according to local US reports.

She and her husband Bill were looking forward to spending more time on Owasco Lake during her retirement.

Her son Eric Schwartz, a freelance writer, found out about her death from watching the news after they were contacted by his wife Maura's sister, Katie.

"She was saying 'turn on the news, turn on the news,' " Eric Schwartz recalled.

These people should be remembered as heroes and treated as such, instead power hungry politicans will spit in their faces again.

Sammo
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:33 PM
So how does the guy actually look like?:confused: and no confirmed profile of him yet?:confused:

Like a freak

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02428/Adam--Lanza_2428724b.jpg

This was the one that was shown in the news here

Sammo
Dec 15th, 2012, 08:36 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/teacher-victoria-soto-threw-herself-in-front-of-her-students-to-save-them-at-sandy-hook-elementary-school/story-fnddckzi-1226537530317

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/12/15/1226537/551351-victoria-sotio.jpg


Miss Soto, 27, was one of three teachers murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School today.


Miss Soto sacrificed herself to save her students - throwing her body in front of the young children, the MailOnline reports.

A friend posted a tribute to Miss Soto on her Tumblr account. In her tribute she wrote: "I talked to Vicki Tuesday and she told me that she loved her 16 angels and never wanted to let them go. Today when the shooting started Vicki hid her kids in closets and when the gunman came into her room she told him the class was in gym. She was then murdered. Not one of her students were harmed. Words can not express how heartbreaking and tragic this is. I will miss you dearly."



:confused:

Nevertheless, this gorgeous girl sacrificed herself for her students, a true heroine.

Vartan
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:09 PM
As in, she opened the door, putting herself up I guess :shrug:

Melange
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:15 PM
Why do so many Republicans think in terms of black and white?

There are very admirable and attractive elements of American society (such as openness, dynamism and diversity, particularly in the major US cities, unfortunately these are things that an unfortunate faction of Americans are trying to eradicate). The millions wanting to immigrate to the US want to move to places like NYC, LA, Chicago, not Podunk, Montana.

Also, America is not perfect, and the gun laws are an example of that. And one should be able to criticise the problematic areas of a society.


All the americans want to move to Texas :help:

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:18 PM
All the Americans? No. Texas is a laughing stock for about 50% of the country. Except for Austin, Texas, which is considered basically a liberal bastion in a bigoted, conservative, repressive state.

moodin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:19 PM
This is truly disgusting :o

That lady is such a hero and the other teachers as well. Those kids were all so cute and the killer was such a coward. :sad:

Why do people exist like this in the world, and they all look like creepers! Don't take your own mistakes in life out on others!! :mad:

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:19 PM
American citizens are militarized in their thinking. We are numb to violent acts. And we are also paranoid and feel the worst is always going to happen and there is a complete lack of social cohesion, hence the rates of gun ownership at their highest ever. That is the biggest problem regarding gun laws.

Novichok
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:23 PM
All the Americans? No. Texas is a laughing stock for about 50% of the country. Except for Austin, Texas, which is considered basically a liberal bastion in a bigoted, conservative, repressive state.

TBH, Texas is a great state. The urban areas consistently vote Democratic but the rural areas vote Republican (much like California/NY). And Houston>>Dallas>>Austin.

moodin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:23 PM
This country is going to cave in :o

moodin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:24 PM
Since when did this become a controversy surrounding political parties? :scratch: :help:

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:31 PM
TBH, Texas is a great state. The urban areas consistently vote Democratic but the rural areas vote Republican (much like California/NY). And Houston>>Dallas>>Austin.
I'll take your word for it, I have no first hand knowledge of the state :lol:

I know a couple people who live in Texas, both off the web and those I have met in real life, and it's 50-50. Some like, some want to move. One of them lives in Houston, his name is Bobby, he has family in VA, and he hates Houston and wants to live in New Orleans or move to Richmond and we talked last in August I think it was, or September, and I think he was making plans on leaving. To paraphrase his comments, he thinks Houston has a horrible crime rate, is dirty and isn't liberal enough.

The only true-blue liberal city in Texas is Austin. Dallas and Houston are blue but not necessarily liberal. But the entire state is likely to turn Democratic in 10 years or less due to Hispanic population growth and transplants from blue states.

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Losing a child has to be the worst pain imaginable. Losing a piece of you, losing a part of your soul. Your creation. Incredibly tragic.

DeucesAreWild
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:35 PM
Victoria Soto, God Bless this heroine!

moodin0931
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Yes, God Bless her.

azdaja
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:42 PM
Like a freak

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02428/Adam--Lanza_2428724b.jpg

This was the one that was shown in the news here
i'm sorry but what's the point of this post? or of the demands to see what he looked like?

i do not think he looks like a freak at all. and that's a part of the problem.

Tennis Fool
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:57 PM
^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg

moby
Dec 15th, 2012, 09:57 PM
It has been established that the rifle was the primary weapon, not the two pistols. More than 100 shots were fired.

The suicide weapon was a handgun.

Kon.
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:04 PM
Like a freak

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02428/Adam--Lanza_2428724b.jpg

This was the one that was shown in the news here

He looks like like a sick mass murderer approximately as much as the average kid.
If only we could spot the dangerous ones that easily.

Sammo
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:04 PM
^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg

OMG :cuckoo:

azdaja
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:11 PM
^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg
no :shrug: it's actually quite stupid to think in these cathegories.

Flavia P.
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:12 PM
He does have a fair bit of the crazy look, IMO. Problem is, not everyone with the crazy look is crazy, and not everyone with a "normal" look is healthy. So it's essentially pointless to discuss these issues on such a basis. Especially considering mass murderers are generally not crazy, not insane.

Sammo
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:12 PM
He does have a bit of the crazy look. Problem is, not everyone with the crazy look is crazy, and not everyone with a "normal" look is healthy.

True

Sammo
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM
Also when people are shown a photo of a person and they're told that person is a mass murderer/psychopath or whatever they begin to see expressions on his face that show how 'crazy he is'

If you didn't know who this person was and I told you he killed hundreds of people you probably would start seeing some kind of crazy look in his stare

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Nelson_Mandela-2008_(edit).jpg/220px-Nelson_Mandela-2008_(edit).jpg

azdaja
Dec 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM
wtf? :facepalm: some people actually think he looked crazy and all that jazz? oh well, that's why things like this happen (among other causes)

Mr.Sharapova
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:01 PM
This is terrible. Simply awful :crying2:.

tennisbum79
Dec 15th, 2012, 11:46 PM
OMG! :speakles:
This kind of situation is like a nightmare that keeps on reoccuring.
I still don't get why civilians are allowed to purchase arms & ammunition, inspite of US history.
Can't you do the same in Canada? Why is it that we don't find such incidents there?
RIP.

Canada has nothing similar to 2nd amendment in the USA.
Canadians, in general are more amenable to put the greater good ahead of so called principles.
A large segment of Americans are convinced that any kind not only reduced their freedom, but the beginning of dictatorship, as w,o, they can overthrow a government that has become too authoritarian.

This paranoia can be traced back to the British.
They just mistrust authority. They see gun control as a prelude to control them.

RVD
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:08 AM
I have a very strong suspicion that this latest tragedy may just be the catalyst necessary to forcing the feds to act on strengthening gun control laws.

tennisbum79
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:25 AM
I have a very strong suspicion that this latest tragedy may just be the catalyst necessary to forcing the feds to act on strengthening gun control laws.

I am not that optimistic.
Congress in holiday recess, so don't be fooled by the absence of pushback these last e days.
I feel they are formulating their response as to not cme across callous and still make their around the 2nd amendment followed their new refrain, guns don't kill people, people kill people

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:10 AM
I wished he had just killed himself before doing that and not afterwise

Wiggly
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:48 AM
A single mother had 5 gun and taught her son how to shoot?
Wrong on so many levels.

Shame on the dad for letting this happen.

JN
Dec 16th, 2012, 01:57 AM
I wished he had just killed himself before doing that and not afterwise

Then it would've been just another locally covered random suicide, which isn't the goal of 1 hit psychopathic cowards like him.

JN
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:02 AM
i do not think he looks like a freak at all. and that's a part of the problem.

Yes he does...


^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg

And even more so, here. It's true that all "freaks" don't have a certain look, but certain looks always equate to "freak", and his look is a classic example. :weirdo:

Patrick345
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:12 AM
Yes he does...




And even more so, here. It's true that all "freaks" don't have a certain look, but certain looks always equate to "freak", and his look is a classic example. :weirdo:

Yeah what look is that? Oh oh I sense a little prejudice and hypocrisy. What´s the words I´m looking for here? Towels in the underwear? :tape:

Melange
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:21 AM
I have a very strong suspicion that this latest tragedy may just be the catalyst necessary to forcing the feds to act on strengthening gun control laws.

I have a very strong suspicion you are wrong

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:35 AM
^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg

Yzy5oFwA1ik

tennisbum79
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:53 AM
Yzy5oFwA1ik

His brother made the comment that he has slight form of autism,no other family member has confirmed that it was based on medical diagnosis.So we should not be so quick to take this as a fact.

BTW, why did you the post the video? Are you trying to be provocative?

useme
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Also, having autism doesn't have anything to do with this.

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:16 AM
His brother made the comment that he has slight form of autism,no other family member has confirmed that it was based on medical diagnosis.So we should not be so quick to take this as a fact.

BTW, why did you the post the video? Are you trying to be provocative?


There are many questions. I think the biggest one is ... why?


http://www.trbimg.com/img-50cd64ad/turbine/la-mct-us-news-schoolshooting-129-hc.jpg-20121215/600


lbXjW-cX9kQ

tennisbum79
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:27 AM
There are many questions. I think the biggest one is ... why?


http://www.trbimg.com/img-50cd64ad/turbine/la-mct-us-news-schoolshooting-129-hc.jpg-20121215/600


lbXjW-cX9kQ

You keep posting autism videos.
Are you saying it is the why?

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:39 AM
You keep posting autism videos.
Are you saying it is the why?

Possibly - but I do know he was not 'processed by the devil' or 'evil'.

Charlatan
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:14 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-OLSdMCIAEj-l-.jpg

Imperfect Angel
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:52 AM
^ Not even here?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/16/nyregion/16shooting-lanza/16shooting-lanza-articleInline-v2.jpg

He looks like Michael Phelps.:eek:
http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/55052-michael-phelps-to-take-up-golf-on-new-reality-show/1344864538_michael-phelps-article.jpg

Ashi
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:59 AM
I thought the same when I first saw the picture.

ServeCaspian
Dec 16th, 2012, 12:54 PM
Without getting into the gun control debate, what actually HAS been done to stop these? I mean there's been that many you'd think they'd have metal detectors at least? Also, can they not at the very least stop people from carrying weapons in state buildings/ public places. It's just crazy.

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:19 PM
MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE CONNECTICUT SHOOTING



"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."





He's so right. But gun control would also help. We should do what he said, try to forget this sad pathetic weirdo's name and remember at least one victim.

MaBaker
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-OLSdMCIAEj-l-.jpg
Just seeing the age next to those kids' names.. makes you not know what to say.. Tragedy is such a small word.

Williamsser
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:42 PM
You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.

Sadly, gun control advocates are milking this tragedy for all it worth.

Mr.Sharapova
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:54 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-OLSdMCIAEj-l-.jpg

OMG:sobbing:. RIP :sobbing:.

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 16th, 2012, 02:56 PM
MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE CONNECTICUT SHOOTING



"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."





He's so right. But gun control would also help. We should do what he said, try to forget this sad pathetic weirdo's name and remember at least one victim.

morgan freeman never said this - there's a post of the original person on fb who posted this...

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:30 PM
morgan freeman never said this - there's a post of the original person on fb who posted this...

Why does everyone who does this kind of things always use Morgan Freeman? :lol: Whatever, it's still spot on.

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 03:37 PM
RIP to those children and adults...
Yes he does...




And even more so, here. It's true that all "freaks" don't have a certain look, but certain looks always equate to "freak", and his look is a classic example. :weirdo:

And there have been some very good looking murderers (for example Paul Bernado didn't look like a freak but the atrocities he committed speak for themselves!). You can never tell by a person's looks how they really are on the inside imo.

Be careful about associating looks with how a person is (good or bad)...

Ty-Ty
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Andrea Jaegsr is there, just saw her on a CNN photo. I guess she has experience in this as she helped lots of people in the Dunblane shootings, of which I had no idea Andy Murray was a part of. She seems like an awesome woman. Hope she can help some of these suffering people.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/16/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html (photo 20)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/lupica-tennis-star-mission-healing-article-1.1221363

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:37 PM
Also, having autism doesn't have anything to do with this.

However, having certain types of autism ( or certain types of mental 'disorders') do compromise the mental health of an individual with respect to violent behaviors.

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:39 PM
That's very nice from Andrea, she's such a good person

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:43 PM
However, having certain types of autism ( or certain types of mental 'disorders') do compromise the mental health of an individual with respect to violent behaviors.


Connecticut school shooting: people with Asperger's unlikely to break the law, experts say

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1302948--connecticut-school-shooting-people-with-asperger-s-unlikely-to-break-the-law-experts-say

nufflemutts
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:51 PM
However, having certain types of autism ( or certain types of mental 'disorders') do compromise the mental health of an individual with respect to violent behaviors.

What are those certain types?

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 04:55 PM
Connecticut school shooting: people with Asperger's unlikely to break the law, experts say

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1302948--connecticut-school-shooting-people-with-asperger-s-unlikely-to-break-the-law-experts-say


Experts say those with autism and related disorders are sometimes diagnosed with other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

"I think it's far more likely that what happened may have more to do with some other kind of mental health condition like depression or anxiety rather than Asperger's," Laugeson said.

She said those with Asperger's tend to focus on rules and be very law-abiding.

"There's something more to this," she said. "We just don't know what that is yet."

After much debate, the term Asperger's is being dropped from the diagnostic manual used by U.S. psychiatrists. In changes approved earlier this month, Asperger's will be incorporated under the umbrella term "autism spectrum disorder" for all the ranges of autism.

- By Stephanie Nano, The Associated Press December 15, 2012, montrealgazette.com (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Autism+experts+evidence+link+between+Aspergers+vio lence/7705720/story.html)

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:06 PM
Experts say those with autism and related disorders are sometimes diagnosed with other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

"I think it's far more likely that what happened may have more to do with some other kind of mental health condition like depression or anxiety rather than Asperger's," Laugeson said.

She said those with Asperger's tend to focus on rules and be very law-abiding.

"There's something more to this," she said. "We just don't know what that is yet."

After much debate, the term Asperger's is being dropped from the diagnostic manual used by U.S. psychiatrists. In changes approved earlier this month, Asperger's will be incorporated under the umbrella term "autism spectrum disorder" for all the ranges of autism.

- By Stephanie Nano, The Associated Press December 15, 2012, montrealgazette.com (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Autism+experts+evidence+link+between+Aspergers+vio lence/7705720/story.html)

So stop posting on the autism aspect? That wasn't the reason behind the shooting? :help:

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:30 PM
What are those certain types?

The dissociation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)) part is troubling for example.


So stop posting on the autism aspect? That wasn't the reason behind the shooting? :help:

Who said it was? You're being defensive.

JN
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:37 PM
RIP to those children and adults...


And there have been some very good looking murderers (for example Paul Bernado didn't look like a freak but the atrocities he committed speak for themselves!). You can never tell by a person's looks how they really are on the inside imo.

Be careful about associating looks with how a person is (good or bad)...

And even more so, here. It's true that all "freaks" don't have a certain look, but certain looks always more often than not equate to "freak", and his look is a classic example. :weirdo:

I'm well aware of that, my mistake for using the word "always."

JN
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Why does everyone who does this kind of things always use Morgan Freeman? :lol: Whatever, it's still spot on.

Because, like with E. F. Hutton, when Morgan Freeman talks, people listen. http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z225/dongoliano/Black_Guy_2.png

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Who said it was?
Denial much? You kept posting vids about autism. :help:
You're being defensive.

And you're being annoying. :help:

Patrick345
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:01 PM
Experts say those with autism and related disorders are sometimes diagnosed with other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

"I think it's far more likely that what happened may have more to do with some other kind of mental health condition like depression or anxiety rather than Asperger's," Laugeson said.

She said those with Asperger's tend to focus on rules and be very law-abiding.

"There's something more to this," she said. "We just don't know what that is yet."

After much debate, the term Asperger's is being dropped from the diagnostic manual used by U.S. psychiatrists. In changes approved earlier this month, Asperger's will be incorporated under the umbrella term "autism spectrum disorder" for all the ranges of autism.

- By Stephanie Nano, The Associated Press December 15, 2012, montrealgazette.com (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Autism+experts+evidence+link+between+Aspergers+vio lence/7705720/story.html)

Is there any proof besides the diagnois of his brother that he had any sort of mental condition? This is unreal. We already had the brother being accused of being the killer, subsequently the wrong twitter and facebook pages of the alleged killer released and attacked. In other reports the brother and the father have been killed. The mother has been killed in her school class. Pathetic media always looking for the edge. Never let verification get into the way of being first. One guy even asked: So how did the children look like can you describe them...I mean what they were wearing. Like that was the true intention of his question. :facepalm:

Sammo
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Is there any proof besides the diagnois of his brother that he had any sort of mental condition? This is unreal. We already had the brother being accused of being the killer, subsequently the wrong twitter and facebook pages of the alleged killer released and attacked. In other reports the brother and the father have been killed. The mother has been killed in her school class. Pathetic media always looking for the edge. Never let verification get into the way of being first. One guy even asked: So how did the children look like can you describe them...I mean what they were wearing. Like that was the true intention of his question. :facepalm:

Oh God, What a bunch of scavengers. It's seriously disgusting, I don't know which is worse, if media or lawyers

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Denial much? You kept posting vids about autism. :help:


And you're being annoying. :help:


Think! If there is a 'direct' link between autism and mass killings, 'autistic' people would not have existed for long - because they would have been lynched and exterminated.

LeRoy.
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:35 PM
I can't believe some people/news channels are making this about the kid being autistic.

nufflemutts
Dec 16th, 2012, 06:59 PM
The dissociation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)) part is troubling for example.




Who said it was? You're being defensive.

Err dissociation doesn't lead to mass killings. :confused: Besides, why did you even mention dissociation? You don't know if he experienced an episode of dissociation (and even if he did, it wouldn't be the 'motive' or cause).

What's worse than this case being turned into a mental health problem is how the journalists and the media speculate that the shooter had a mental illness. Journalists are not supposed to speculate, they are supposed to state facts. Last time I checked there has been no access to his medical records to verify if he indeed was diagnosed with autism and/or other mental illnesses. This is very similar to how journalists (and subsequently) the public jumped to the false belief that Ryan was the shooter. Hours later he was proved innocent and had nothing to do with the shootings.

gulzhan
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:02 PM
It's not about the shooter being autistic. It's about an autistic teenager having an easy access to automatic weapons. This is plain dangerous! How can automatic weapon be considered as intended for self-defense? How could 5 guns per person be considered a right under 2nd Amendment? This is just beyond of my understanding of the laws.

Americans should be honest and admit their legislature is corrupt and can't fight the lobby of gun makers/traders.

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Err dissociation doesn't lead to mass killings. :confused: Besides, why did you even mention dissociation? You don't know if he experienced an episode of dissociation (and even if he did, it wouldn't be the 'motive' or cause).

What's worse than this case being turned into a mental health problem is how the journalists and the media speculate that the shooter had a mental illness. Journalists are not supposed to speculate, they are supposed to state facts. Last time I checked there has been no access to his medical records to verify if he indeed was diagnosed with autism and/or other mental illnesses. This is very similar to how journalists (and subsequently) the public jumped to the false belief that Ryan was the shooter. Hours later he was proved innocent and had nothing to do with the shootings.

The Adam LanzerLanza's mental health state is very likely a contributing factor. Again, no one said it 'leads' (on its own) or there is a 'direct link' to this killings.

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:18 PM
Think! If there is a 'direct' link between autism and mass killings, 'autistic' people would not have existed for long - because they would have been lynched and exterminated.

You tell me to think but I'm not a mind a reader!

So I'll ask you the following question: so why did you keep bringing up his autism? :shrug:

nufflemutts
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:30 PM
The Adam Lanzer's mental health state is very likely a contributing factor. Again, no one said it 'leads' (on its own) or there is a 'direct link' to this killings.

But do we know much about his mental health state? That's the thing. We can all speculate and play the guessing game about his mental health but we don't know whether he was autistic, depressed, anxious, dissociating, etc. until there's actually evidence to confirm so. By the way, dissociation in and of itself is not a mental 'disorder'. We all dissociate from time to time and for the most part it isn't pathological. Unless he's been diagnosed with extreme form of it (e.g. depersonalization disorder) there's no point listing all kind of different mental health problems as "plausible motives".

PhilePhile
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:31 PM
You tell me to think but I'm not a mind a reader!

So I'll ask you the following question: so why did you keep bringing up his autism? :shrug:


Apparently, you filled in the blank when one is not suggested.

People's mental health is a very important issue especially when it involves mass killings.

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 07:44 PM
Apparently, you filled in the blank when one is not suggested.

People's mental health is a very important issue especially when it involves mass killings.

Well, right now, his mental health has not been proven but suggested in the media.

So who's the one speculating here?

Flavia P.
Dec 16th, 2012, 08:43 PM
Autism actually has shown to make kids less aggressive than their peers overall. There is very little incidence to violence with autistic children. So where we're at are people looking to blame something, one single thing, instead of looking at the entire issue.

Vartan
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:12 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html


Written by Liza Long, republished from The Blue Review

Friday’s horrific national tragedy -- the murder of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut -- has ignited a new discussion on violence in America. In kitchens and coffee shops across the country, we tearfully debate the many faces of violence in America: gun culture, media violence, lack of mental health services, overt and covert wars abroad, religion, politics and the way we raise our children. Liza Long, a writer based in Boise, says it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

While every family's story of mental illness is different, and we may never know the whole of the Lanza's story, tales like this one need to be heard -- and families who live them deserve our help.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan -- they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork -- “Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying -- that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise -- in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill -- Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

hablo
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:24 PM
No word on the father in that article by Liza Long...

I wouldn't know what to do in that mother's situation. :help::sad:

Flavia P.
Dec 16th, 2012, 09:37 PM
And that story is exactly why I keep pressing the issue on health being as much of the focus as guns are.

Flavia P.
Dec 16th, 2012, 10:04 PM
Racism and poverty are severe issues too.

Flavia P.
Dec 16th, 2012, 10:20 PM
Adam likely would have the eye on him if he were not an "average" looking white boy. Everyone always says after these incidents "he doesn't look like he could do something like that". People have this mentality all criminals are thugs, are hardcore types, that all "crazy" people dress weirdly and or maybe do drugs and look clearly insane. But the truth is about 70% of mass murderers are average looking white men. And around 11% are Asian men. So that's the very overwhelming majority who are not black/Hispanic/Muslim, although that's who people think of when they think of crime.

Morning Morgan
Dec 16th, 2012, 11:56 PM
Memorial service in progress. Let's take a minute to remember the victims.

Cajka
Dec 17th, 2012, 01:22 AM
So stop posting on the autism aspect? That wasn't the reason behind the shooting? :help:

This post you quoted is also not fair to people who have other mental health issues. I have an anxiety issue, like many people today, does it mean I'd kill a bunch of 6 year olds? :help: I can even say that because of my anxiety, I often can't stand watching a movie scenes that include violence. And reading about such horrible things like this one makes me even more anxious and desperate than usually. So, it's all individual.

fantic
Dec 17th, 2012, 01:57 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-rights-advocates-under-attack-after-school-shooting/2012/12/16/04cba1aa-47d6-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_story_1.html

Gun-rights advocates under attack after school shooting

By Fredrick Kunkle, Sunday, December 16, 5:33 PM

The call came Friday night, as Americans were just beginning the struggle to make sense of one of the most horrific mass shootings in a long history of them.

The anonymous caller was angry, and he was looking for Philip Van Cleave, who heads the Virginia Citizens Defense League. He cursed Van Cleave for his pro-gun advocacy, challenged Van Cleave to sell his weapons, and called him a coward.

“You would have thought I had gone up there and done these horrible things,” said Van Cleave, who received the call in the midst of planning demonstrations at two Autozone stores to protest the firing of an employee who used his firearm to break up a robbery.

Those who support the Second Amendment say they feel just as horrified and numb as any other American after Friday’s massacre of kindergartners and other young children at a Connecticut school. But now, as the call for new gun-control laws increases, gun owners say they also feel under attack.

These are the people who see guns as an answer to the problem of violence, not the problem itself. They worry that their Second Amendment rights will be taken away. Challenged by those who see any gun as an instrument of destruction, they defend their belief that guns are beneficial. Harder still is to explain the allure of weapons like the .223-caliber Bushmaster, a military-style semiautomatic rifle that a some want banned.

“I could ask you why should anyone want a Ferrari?” Van Cleave said Sunday. “[Bushmasters] are absolutely a blast to shoot with. They’re fast. They’re accurate.”

And there’s no denying that their fearsome, combat-ready appearance adds to their appeal, he said.

“Guns are fun, and some of them are much more cool than others. It’s just like we have television sets that look cool, and others are much more boxy,” Van Cleave said.

Investigators say Adam Lanza used a .223-caliber Bushmaster to kill 27 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

But none can say why.

Lanza, 20, killed himself before police arrived. He was also carrying two 9mm semiautomatic handguns, including a Glock. The guns belonged to his mother, a gun collector who was slain in her home before the rampage began.

Before Connecticut became home to what, for now, is perhaps the most infamous mass murder in the country, the state was arguably the place where the mass production of repeating firearms was perfected. Samuel Colt set up shop in Hartford in the mid 1800s to produce a firearm whose revolving chambers would feed bullets at a then-unheard-of speed, and it was his company that later developed the forebear of Lanza’s deadly rifle.

The Bushmaster is a civilian version of the M-16 military rifle and its descendents. The flash suppressors, designed to hide the muzzle flash from the enemy, have no practical use at the average shooting range, but they look fierce. Although not as powerful as many popular hunting rifles, such as the .30-06 caliber, whose bullet and cartridge are both larger, the weapon is made for high performance, with a large magazine and rapid rate of fire.

So is the Glock, a rapid-fire handgun whose sleek, modernistic design arose from its inventor’s desire to protect Austrian soldiers from their own clumsiness.

Gaston Glock wanted to find a way to avoid accidental discharges when the handgun was dropped. It was designed for combat, with a large magazine, a light trigger and no external safety. Its molded black plastic frame flexes to absorb recoil.

When the Glock first appeared on the U.S. market, it was the pit bull of firearms. Gun-control advocates warned that the Glock would become terrorists’ weapon of choice — the “hijacker’s special,” as one newspaper put it — because its plastic body might slip past metal detectors.

But controversy also brought more attention than any marketing campaign ever could. Tupac Shakur rapped about the Glock by name (he would later be killed by one), and Hollywood glamorized the handgun in movies such as “Die Hard 2.”

“Weapons that were targeted and demonized by liberals and gun-control advocates took on this dark glamour,” said Paul M. Barrrett, author of “Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun.”

This time, the nation’s grief is unlikely to pass quickly, and it’s already stoked with anger at a culture that glamorizes firearms. Gun-rights advocates said they too feel disgust and sorrow at the violence that snuffed the lives of so many children. But to people whose lives have been saved or made more secure by the presence of a firearm, they also feel as if they are on the defensive.

“We’re all horrified by this thing,” said John R. Lott, an economist whose book, “More Guns, Less Crime,” suggests that gun-control laws have had the unintended consequence of making mass shootings more likely. Referring to specific places, such as schools, Lott said, “The frustration a lot of people feel is what strikes me as most obvious: All these attacks in the U.S., and all of these attacks in Europe, except one, keep occurring where guns are banned.”

Gun-rights advocates say that, as horrible as this crime was, there does not appear to be a gun law that would have altered the equation, short of a weapons ban. Although a lot of attention has been focused on the Bushmaster, they argue that a prettier version of a semiautomatic rifle, such as a hunting rifle with a wooden stock and without the military-style features such as a flash suppressor, would be just as deadly.

Lott has also been receiving angry phone calls. Appearing on CNN, he was interrupted by host Piers Morgan, who demanded: “How many kids have to die before you guys say we want less guns, not more?”

But Lott said he is not a defender of the Second Amendment. He is not even a gun enthusiast. He was forbidden to have a BB gun as a child, and he and his wife would not let their children have toy guns. But Lott said the data do not lie: Since 1950, in every public mass shooting in which three or more people have died, the setting has in almost every case been one where guns are banned, such as schools.

But many gun-rights advocates were reluctant to be drawn into any discussion of their views so soon after the killings.

“This is a time of grieving. We need to respect these families,” Del. L. Scott Lingamfelter (R-Prince William), who led the effort to repeal Virginia’s pioneering law limiting handgun sales to one per month. “That’s all I have to say.”

moodin0931
Dec 17th, 2012, 02:34 AM
Does anyone know what colors are supposed to be worn tomorrow in honor of the victims? My friend told me blue, however, my other friend told me it was green and white. :unsure:

Rocketta
Dec 17th, 2012, 02:39 AM
This post you quoted is also not fair to people who have other mental health issues. I have an anxiety issue, like many people today, does it mean I'd kill a bunch of 6 year olds? :help: I can even say that because of my anxiety, I often can't stand watching a movie scenes that include violence. And reading about such horrible things like this one makes me even more anxious and desperate than usually. So, it's all individual.


I don't think it's unfair to say this person suffered from a menta, illness because he did whether it's something that was treatable like Bi-Polar or if it is something not treatable like socio/psychopath spectrums. More than likely looking at history it will be an illness that can/could've been treated if we hadn't gutted Mental Health treatment for the have-nots in this country and worked to remove the stigma and getting help for mental illness. I remember posting on here years and years and years ago about how these episodes would increase due to the lack of facilities and opportunities and on this I hate to be right.

Mental Illness, is just one of the reasons gun control should be tightened in all of the US not state by state because if people can legally obtain guns in other states tight gun control in some states won't really matter. The mother got the rifle in another state before they were made illegal and allowed to keep it when she moved to Conneticut.

Anyway, I looked back at some of my posts about mental illness and I'm sad about feeling these type of events would increase. This was posted back in 2006 by me..

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=272715&highlight=mental+health

funny thing is that article was so accurate!!! :eek: People waiting 8 years to seek treatment for Major Depression..... what do you think they are doing for Bi-Polar disorders? Most people don't even get diagnosed correctly with Bi-Polar because they only seek help when they are in a depressive state all the while ignoring their manic state but when they only access you have to a Dr is the emergency room it's not surprising a lot of people don't get the right diagnosis. I wonder if they will continue to just divert the conversation to gun control as the only reason this is happening. Yes it's the reason for the increase in fatalities but Guns are not the reason for the crime. With Va tech it was 'Korean Born' student story that was the divergent, with the Ft Hood killings it was 'Islam', with Aurora, it's what 'Batman', Academic Stress, or is it 'gun control' that they divert attention from our health system and mental health? What will be the main divergent this time? :sad:

Bless, those babies, the adults who died trying to protect them and their familes... :hug:

Cajka
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:03 AM
I don't think it's unfair to say this person suffered from a menta, illness because he did whether it's something that was treatable like Bi-Polar or if it is something not treatable like socio/psychopath spectrums. More than likely looking at history it will be an illness that can/could've been treated if we hadn't gutted Mental Health treatment for the have-nots in this country and worked to remove the stigma and getting help for mental illness. I remember posting on here years and years and years ago about how these episodes would increase due to the lack of facilities and opportunities and on this I hate to be right.

Mental Illness, is just one of the reasons gun control should be tightened in all of the US not state by state because if people can legally obtain guns in other states tight gun control in some states won't really matter. The mother got the rifle in another state before they were made illegal and allowed to keep it when she moved to Conneticut.

Anyway, I looked back at some of my posts about mental illness and I'm sad about feeling these type of events would increase. This was posted back in 2006 by me..

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=272715&highlight=mental+health

funny thing is that article was so accurate!!! :eek: People waiting 8 years to seek treatment for Major Depression..... what do you think they are doing for Bi-Polar disorders? Most people don't even get diagnosed correctly with Bi-Polar because they only seek help when they are in a depressive state all the while ignoring their manic state but when they only access you have to a Dr is the emergency room it's not surprising a lot of people don't get the right diagnosis. I wonder if they will continue to just divert the conversation to gun control as the only reason this is happening. Yes it's the reason for the increase in fatalities but Guns are not the reason for the crime. With Va tech it was 'Korean Born' student story that was the divergent, with the Ft Hood killings it was 'Islam', with Aurora, it's what 'Batman', Academic Stress, or is it 'gun control' that they divert attention from our health system and mental health? What will be the main divergent this time? :sad:

Bless, those babies, the adults who died trying to protect them and their familes... :hug:

Mental illnesses are the one of the biggest issues, as we know, but there's a problem. A person who's dealing with some disorder already has a big problem with acceptance because people see them as freaks. And if people see you not only as a freak, but also as a potential serial killer, it's not gonna help you recover. Most of the people who commit such horrible crimes are sociopaths, people who, for this or that reason, are not accepted in their community. And being considered a person who is more likely to commit a horrible crime compared to others, just because you have some mental disorder, is exactly something that leads to becoming a sociopath.

I agree about everything you said, but the problem is that people are often shallow and insensitive, while people with mental disorders are often highly sensitive and more vulnerable. It's a touchy subject, on one hand medical workers are the one who should be even more aware of the things you mentioned, but writing about this in newspapers actually increases the stigma that is already huge. At least IMO. Of course, I believe that it should be discussed more, people who suffer from mental illnesses should feel more comfortable and honest to themselves and the others, but speaking about that in the context of mass shooting is just not the way IMO.

Rocketta
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:30 AM
I agree about everything you said, but the problem is that people are often shallow and insensitive, while people with mental disorders are often highly sensitive and more vulnerable. It's a touchy subject, on one hand medical workers are the one who should be even more aware of the things you mentioned, but writing about this in newspapers actually increases the stigma that is already huge. At least IMO. Of course, I believe that it should be discussed more, people who suffer from mental illnesses should feel more comfortable and honest to themselves and the others, but speaking about that in the context of mass shooting is just not the way IMO.

I totally understand your apprehension. I myself am a major depressive. However, I think most people in the public will be fine with the mentally ill suffering in silence as long as they are of the belief it will never effect their lives personally. That's why when we have these tragedies, it is the time to discuss the fact that mental illness is no less a medical issue than diabetes or cancer. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain that is extremely difficult to treat and for the most part has no cure just treatment.

Unfortunately, until the general public gets scared enough that the untreated mentally ill can effect their lives negatively there will never be anything done to reverse the devestating trend of limiting or extinguishing mental health treatment. My mom worked as the secretary at the local mental health facility and right after she retired they closed the facility. We are from a small town, there is no government sponsored facility within 60 miles. They only have the hospital and the emergency room. Hospital mental health wards are not for treatment just medication stabilization.

The general public needs to realize a lot of time the only difference between suicide and homicide is the type of mental illness, the type of self-medicating that is going on and sometimes it's just luck for the general public. The availibility of services is at crisis level in the US. I had an extreme depressive episode 6-8 wks into my pregnancy. I had moved to a new city in another state and I didn't get a new doctor. So when I went into crisis I started calling around... there wasn't one doctor that I could find that was accepting new patients, the local government supported place only accepted those who were on medicaid or didn't have insurance. I had to drive back to my old doctor who was 5 hours away to receive treatment until I was able to get into a doctor where I lived. I didn't get one until after I had my daughter....... 10 months and she wasn't a psychiatrist just a pysch nurse who could write prescriptions then I was finally able to get into a good practice.

I think those of us who can speak up for ourselves should when we hear or see people treating mental illness as something other than a physical medical illness. How else is it going to change?

Wiggly
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:37 AM
15 of the 16 children in Lauren Rousseau's class died.

Victoria Soto also had 16 young kids in her class. Five of them passed away.
It seems Soto and the other teacher present in the room may have been the sole victims in that particular class but the five kids decided to escape.

Very weird to see there was only one wounded person and all others are dead.

Cajka
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:56 AM
I totally understand your apprehension. I myself am a major depressive. However, I think most people in the public will be fine with the mentally ill suffering in silence as long as they are of the belief it will never effect their lives personally. That's why when we have these tragedies, it is the time to discuss the fact that mental illness is no less a medical issue than diabetes or cancer. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain that is extremely difficult to treat and for the most part has no cure just treatment. Unfortunately, until the general public gets scared enough that the untreated mentally ill can effect their lives negatively there will never be anything done to reverse the devestating trend of limiting or extinguishing mental health treatment. My mom worked as the secretary at the local mental health facility and right after she retired they closed the facility. We are from a small town, there is no government sponsored facility within 60 miles. They only have the hospital and the emergency room. Hospital mental health wards are not for treatment just medication stabilization. The general public needs to realize a lot of time the only difference between suicide and homicide is the type of mental illness, the type of self-medicating that is going on and sometimes it's just luck for the general public. The availibility of services is at crisis level in the US. I had an extreme depressive episode 6-8 wks into my pregnancy. I had moved to a new city in another state and I didn't get a new doctor. So when I went into crisis I started calling around... there wasn't one doctor that I could find that was accepting new patients, the local government supported place only accepted those who were on medicaid or didn't have insurance. I had to drive back to my old doctor who was 5 hours away to receive treatment until I was able to get into a doctor where I lived. I didn't get one until after I had my daughter....... 10 months and she wasn't a psychiatrist just a pysch nurse who could write prescriptions then I was finally able to get into a good practice. I think those of us who can speak up for ourselves should when we hear or see people treating mental illness as something other than a physical medical illness. How else is it going to change?

IDK, after reading your post, I'm not sure myself. For me, ignoring my anxiety was always the way to deal with that. The good thing about anxiety is that ignoring it is the best solution. But with depression or something else, it's more complicated by far. When something like this happens, people tend to think that it's just some deranged freak and, of course,it will never happen to me or somebody close to me, but... you know...

Of course, just like you, I think that it's not the solution to stay silent, but the question is: How should we approach this problem? Because it makes a difference, just like with every kind of stigma and prejudices, much depends on a way we approach those issues. For example, the highly sensitive period for every human being is an adolescence. you might notice that many of those shooters are very young and when it comes to school mass shootings, many of shooters are former students or young people somehow related to that school. That's why I believe we need an educational program for adolescents. The biggest part of our complexes and issues is related to that period of our lives when acceptance among your peers means a world. Of course, when you're a grown up, you don't care so much if you're gonna have a lunch or drink a coffee alone, but barely any teenager feels as comfortable.

And this is just a small part of problems caused by mental issues.

ys
Dec 17th, 2012, 05:18 AM
Very weird to see there was only one wounded person and all others are dead.

Do not forget, it is not a combat soldiers. It's very little children. One bullet can do so much damage to a little body, and they were reportedly showered with those.

Some more gun control would not be a bad idea.
Assault weapons may be put under more strict control.
I would also consider stricter testing to get a license. Perhaps every member of a household should mentally tested before a gun could be allowed in a household.
But it is not really a solution. You can kill a plenty with hunting weapons. Very potent explosives, such as nitroglycerin can well be manufactured at home from some easily available/over the counter chemicals. If someone is fixed on a mass murder, they'll find a way.
Somehow, we need to figure out what makes these people do it.

RVD
Dec 17th, 2012, 05:35 AM
Harder still is to explain the allure of weapons like the .223-caliber Bushmaster, a military-style semiautomatic rifle that a some want banned.

“I could ask you why should anyone want a Ferrari?” Van Cleave said Sunday. “ are absolutely a blast to shoot with. They’re fast. They’re accurate.”

And there’s no denying that their fearsome, combat-ready appearance adds to their appeal, he said.

“Guns are fun, and some of them are much more cool than others. [B]It’s just like we have television sets that look cool, and others are much more boxy,” Van Cleave said.Is this guy for real?! :facepalm: :facepalm:

As far as I'm aware, HD TV's and high performance cars aren't designed with the sole purpose of 'killing'. And neither requires ammunition or a safety switch.
What a ridiculous analogy.

I mean, is this the sort legal argument that gun rights advocate use in court?
It's also nice that he can make light of a situation & issue during a time when so many innocent children and outstanding members of our society (heroic school staffers) lost their lives.
I could live a hundred life-times and never understand the minds of individuals like this guy.

gulzhan
Dec 17th, 2012, 03:54 PM
No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.


Isn't it easier to prohibit guns? At least automatic ones? Have you seen those Adam Lanza used?!

Flavia P.
Dec 17th, 2012, 04:09 PM
We need to stop thinking about doing the easy fixes only, and start thinking about fixing our entire problems.