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View Full Version : Is Venus Williams now better on hard courts than on grass?


dsanders06
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:34 PM
2011-12 results would suggest so :confused:

Start da Game
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:36 PM
yes definitely better than sharapova.....

Lucyxx
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Definitely better than Sharapova I'd say not.

Slightly, yes.

She still has the drive, though I can't see her becoming top 5 again.

Could she knock off Maria/Aga/Vika? Yes. However, I don't see her stringing together successive victories against top foes for a wondrous place in the rankings.

edificio
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:41 PM
Hard to say.

Queen_Vee_92
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:49 PM
I would say no.

2011 Wimbledon was only her second event since the Australian Open, she was clearly out of shape, still made the fourth round, and then lost to a player she's proven unable to beat even when in good form (2010) and even nearer her peak at the 06 Australian Open. More than possible she'd have replicated her QF performance from the year before had she faced Zvonareva instead.

2012 Wimbledon, the match with Vesnina and her first few doubles rounds were the most obvious examples of Sjogrens Venus we've ever seen. Even Venus' biggest haters watching that first round, commented in the thread afterwards how sad it was to see her so clearly hindered and debilitated on court, and agreed that it was more than just a typical Venus bad day at the office.

The Olympics saw her record 2 good wins in her opening rounds with (up til then) her best performances in the 2012 comeback, and then even in her loss to Kerber she played good tennis, and probably should have won that match but mentally lost it against a tricky player for her, who ended up having her career year to date. Had she won that match, she'd have faced Vika, who she matches up well against, and this question would probably not even have been considered, she could very well have been in a medal match :shrug:

That being said, as Venus' athleticism and serve has dropped through age/injury/illness, she's no longer quite got the tools that made her and Serena head and shoulders above the others on the lawns, and she is now probably just as potent on a quick hard court where her game has always translated really well anyway.

Still, i'd wager that healthy she's still in the top 3 players on a grass court on her day (along with Kvitova and obviously little sis), i just hope that next year we get to see it, and that Sjogrens doesn't rob us of one last vintage grass court run by Venus as we are running out of time to see it.

Morning Morgan
Dec 4th, 2012, 05:50 PM
I still think her grass game is vastly better than her hard court game. Just,that she couldn't zone in during the three grass court tournaments she played this year. And actually I watched her match against Kerber at the olympics, she was playing well, just that she didn't kill off sets when she had multiple chances.

Halepsova
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:35 PM
She is a 30 something now. She can't be as fast as she was in her 20s. Shit happens. :shrug:

Pump-it-UP
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:53 PM
No. Her only impressive hard court matches since Dubai 2010 were vs Errani/Stosur in Cincinnati this year.

I don't think her grass game has regressed as much as her recent losses (Pironkova x2, Kerber, Vesnina, Hantuchova :weirdo:) would indicate. Her play in the 2nd week of Wimbledon + at the Olympics was near vintage. Unfortunately, her mental frailty and TB flops were near vintage too. :tape:

L'Enfant Sauvage
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:00 PM
Not really, just at all four big grass events from 2010(2010, 2011, 2012 Wimby, 2012 Olympics) she drew defensive players early. Venus of 05-current sucks vs players with good defense, and Sjogrenus of 2010-current is quite simply incapable of defeating them. If she faces Radwanska, Wozniacki and Kerber 10 times next year she will get 1-3 wins maximum against them.

dsanders06
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Main reason behind this is that she did so much better against Kerber at the US Open than at the Olympics (even though Kerber herself is considerably better on hardcourts than on grass).

sweetadri06
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:33 PM
No.

Queen_Vee_92
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Main reason behind this is that she did so much better against Kerber at the US Open than at the Olympics (even though Kerber herself is considerably better on hardcourts than on grass).

I think thats more to do with Venus getting better and better post Wimbledon, and learning to play with an autoimmune disease than it is to do with her matching up better with Kerber on hard than grass.

And tbh she played with half a serve and made 40+ UE's in the New York match, she actually played better in the Olympics match just choked at the worst times, times Kerber on the other hand played some really clutch tennis!

Smitten
Dec 4th, 2012, 10:23 PM
Does it matter? She's irrelevant on all surfaces.

The Dawntreader
Dec 4th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Does it matter? She's irrelevant on all surfaces.

Keep it cute.

And the answer is no. She had a disatrous campaign in 2010, and the last two have been largely attributed to her health and of course that nightmare match-up.

I felt like Venus stopped playing as aggressively as she used to on grass post 2008. Her game got rather passive, and she was relying too heavily on trying to rally and maneuver the ball around, without injecting the killer pace she was applying in previous campaigns. That became glaringly obvious in 2011, when she was the picture of uselessness off the ground against Date Krumm, getting out-hit due to the abysmal length of her groundstrokes. She was basically playing slow hard-court tennis on grass.

That said, her game is accentuated on grass when she plays accordingly to the surface.

Stamp Paid
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:05 PM
She is from Compton. Never count her out.

JCTennisFan
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:27 PM
Her consistency has just gone downhill.

She has always been very effective on both HC and Grass (as evident by 00, 01, 07, etc) so nothing really new here.

She is just too erratic and has been too often injured to really make a proper impact on the tour the past few seasons.

When Venus is on she is still very capable on all surfaces quite honestly...

The only problem is when she is off she is really off....

dencod16
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:02 AM
Well it's not her game that has declined it's her mentality, even if she is saying she think she can win out loud i think deep she questions herself, this shows how shaky she is when serving for matches.

nfl46
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:09 AM
Does it matter? She's irrelevant on all surfaces.

She's still capable of snatching ANYONE'S wig on the WTA tour including Serena! Watch it. She's just not consistent throughout a full tournament but catch her on a good day and we still get vintage Venus.

TPlaya8
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:41 AM
I felt like Venus stopped playing as aggressively as she used to on grass post 2008. Her game got rather passive, and she was relying too heavily on trying to rally and maneuver the ball around, without injecting the killer pace she was applying in previous campaigns. That became glaringly obvious in 2011, when she was the picture of uselessness off the ground against Date Krumm, getting out-hit due to the abysmal length of her groundstrokes. She was basically playing slow hard-court tennis on grass.



I think she started out 2010 like that, trying to make less errors. Infact she played the whole season like that and actually the first half of that year ended up being her most consisted season since 2003, I don't think she lost before the QFs in any event until the French, going into Paris she was #2 in whe world and #1 in the Race. She won two titles got to 2 other finals, QF's of AO and Rome.

I also think 2010 was really was affected by Sjrogrens too. She would play well but then just have this totally way off days! (rome vs jelena and miami vs kim)

2011 she had just come back from injury the fact that she even made it to the QF's and beat Petkovic and Ivanovic and pushed Hantuchova to a 3rd set was actually great considering the way Venu's moved at Eastbourne. I believe that was the worst I have ever seen Venus move she just seemed heavy, stiff, and looked like it hurt her to move. It had me cringing just watching it.

and then I also think Wimbledon was Sjrogrens because her levels were so up and down, Ist round great, 2nd round terrible and she just looked bad and out of it that day, but 3rd round she was great. And she looked so distant and zoned out in that 4th round against her bad match-up. Clearly Pironkova played better in 2010 when she beat her that 2011 match Venus looked lifeless almost.


After the Olympics and Cinicinatti I believe Venus has the game and the control over her illness now to be a threat and win a major and big titles. you got to think at Cinicinatti is a one week tournament and Venus was on her 5th match against Li and she looked good fitness wise and physically just her back injury held her down.

Olympic is almost the same, because of the rain delays Venus had played her 3 matches back, to back, to back and had doubles in the Kerber match I was worried she was going in tired but it wasn't tiredness or fatigued that lost her the match it was mental. She had set points in both sets! A Grand Slam is 2 weeks with days off.

Actually the thing that I think is the biggest issues for Venus going to be are the Order of Play and her mental game, I know so she can have the energy to be able to compete her pre match warmup has changed. And I feel like I have seen Venus play early morning matches and her body is fully active or ready to respond. I also felt the same about her late night match at the US Open against Kerber i think starting after the men was late for Venus and her body had to catch up and warm up!

And mentally she has got to stop chocking. Even in Li and Kerber matches she fights hard when she is down but her nervousness and bad decisions when she is in a position to win is what is hurting her and has been for quite sometime. One thing I alsonotcied about this passion she is showing on the court with the come on's and fist pumps, they go away when she is in the lead.

But then all the talk about the mentallity the way she handled the pressure moments in Luxembourg were great. And her compusre in the final was awesome!

dagamezbest
Dec 5th, 2012, 05:25 AM
Some of you guys are being a bit rough on Venus..Keep in mind that she hasnt been able to practice like a regular tour player since 2010. You cant expect her to go as big off the ground as she did in 08 when she is probably only practicing at a level to keep the ball in court. I would be surprised if we didnt see the Venus of old return sometime during 2013. She is managing her illness, and it was very obvious at the US Open that she wants to win again badly. Probably wont happen at Australia as usual. But I wouldnt count her out at all against any of the top player and I'm sure they wont take her lightly either.

tammywilson52
Jul 30th, 2013, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't necessarily say that Venus is now better on hard tennis court surfaces (http://www.decoturf.com/), I just think it aids her game as she reaches the later stages of her career. Much more control and defensive capabilities on hard court, especially compared to grass or clay.

Panther24
Jul 30th, 2013, 11:44 AM
Venus just isn't the same player anymore. Especially with her disease.. And that's regardless of the surface.

Plus, there's also more hard court tournaments than grass, the ratio is of course going to be lopsided.


She is from Compton. Never count her out.

:facepalm: