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Petronius
Nov 24th, 2012, 04:14 PM
To keep the other threads more organized and easier to read, if you want to vent out your frustration, please do it here. :angel:

A few previous posts to get this thread started :p

On David Kotyza, Petra's coach

could you please be honest for just once? no pressure? LMAO, tired of every time you say this Mr Useless

On CT4 they showed bits from Petra's practice with Kotyza. oh my gosh, he's so bad. misses service box, Petra hits moonbals and he says to her that she hits great:tape:

Huggybear can hang around as museum guide, bag carrier & cook etc plus phone-a-friend-companion but fresh advising/coaching/guiding/technical talent needs to be brought into the kvitty camp before time runs out

We need a coach that won't tolerate Petra's fuckeries any longer.
Fire Kotyza now.

On Kotyza & Ivanko, the fitness coach:

:fiery: Kotyza & Ivanko far too relaxed for my liking – almost appear to be on vacation – This poor girl is defending a Grand Slam! – For goodness sake these two clowns should get their act together!:mad:

And, of course, on Miroslav Černošek, Petra's likeable manager:

The way I see it, Csernosek is not far from a gangster

What a small minded huckster idiot.

He's the Czech Jerry Jones.

He sounds like a Freakin Mafia Boss

He's such a hypocrite.

What a greedy, spineless, self absorbed slob.

he's a MONEY, CONTROL, CRONYISM expert

the guys is so arrogant

But he's also a paranoid numbnut

He's eminently expendable.

If nothing else, Cernosek is like a Czech Monopoly/Mafia.

He's easily avoidable, ignored or replaceable. He just is.

Originally Posted by Rix643
Kvitova on the other hand... Really, I searched a lot, and all I could find on her was the Czech agency "Česká sportovní".

Which is run by this two-bit huckster:

http://img.ihned.cz/attachment.php/580/33008580/ot3458CDEFGJLMNkPQbcdef01SUw9RVn/EK33_12_Cernosek1_jr.jpg


Mofo has his fingers everywhere.

ShiftyFella
Nov 24th, 2012, 06:05 PM
you should re-post conspiracy theory investigation posts by paulmara, without them this thread would be incomplete:lol:

Petronius
Nov 24th, 2012, 06:14 PM
you should re-post conspiracy theory investigation posts by paulmara, without them this thread would be incomplete:lol:

I hope paul and others will step up and make the necessary contributions :lol:

Anyway, I am planning to update this thread as much as possible :hearts:

Excelscior
Nov 24th, 2012, 07:54 PM
Funny Post.

I understand it's the off season, so all is fair game and will be attempted. :lol:

However, the beauty and/or silliness of our complaints regarding Petra's team were organic and spontaneous, and not contrived, premeditated or meant to be filed.

Maybe a list of Team Petra miscues may work. However, even then, we don't criticize to knock Petra's team for eternity. It's done purely off of events and spontaneity. And a thread like this, would be to contrived and not in the spirit of supporting Team Petra.

I guess this thread may be good, if/when new posters ask "what have they done wrong", and we can point to this (though nothing is listed here--except combustible quotes--when many of us argued facts, events and practical suppositions on top of our bluster)? So we don't want to damn then to eternity either with a "HIT LIST" thread about them. I certainly won't. :lol:

Nonetheless Petronius, you can always be the archiver if you want (procuring our various post into this one thread). I guess you're hoping for a Petra revival, to shame us? :lol: And even if she does, it could be DESPITE Petra's team and not because of them. Of course Petra would have to play lights out for this to happen. We'll see?

Petronius
Nov 24th, 2012, 08:13 PM
I guess you're hoping for a Petra revival, to shame us? :lol: And even if she does, it could be DESPITE Petra's team and not because of them.

I've learned the hard way: If Petra's losing it's always 'because', and if she's winning it's always 'despite' :lol:

Excelscior
Nov 24th, 2012, 09:24 PM
I've learned the hard way: If Petra's losing it's always 'because', and if she's winning it's always 'despite' :lol:


I knew you would say that. :lol:

What I meant was: Petra can still get hurt playing silly tournaments; she can still get sick recuperating in cold ass Czech Republic; she can still overcome (eventually bad initial game strategy); train mostly indoors again--when most tournaments are outdoors, as well as possibly luck out on a Slam as she continues with out a hitting partner, etc., etc..

However, it wouldn't mean her team was doing stuff right. :eek:

Petra's just got that type of talent and upside, when on--despite them. :lol: :shrug: :lol:

bruce goose
Nov 25th, 2012, 12:05 AM
I've learned the hard way: If Petra's losing it's always 'because', and if she's winning it's always 'despite' :lol:Man,you TOTALLY messed up by failing to mention Petra's "medical team"(i.e.,shaman spiritists),the leader of whom is Dr.Bernard Pikola(the Czech version of Barney Fife)

paulmara
Nov 25th, 2012, 02:16 PM
you should re-post conspiracy theory investigation posts by paulmara, without them this thread would be incomplete:lol:

Oh, poor Sidney

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2984/083gh400.jpg

Petronius
Nov 25th, 2012, 02:34 PM
Oh, poor Sidney

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2984/083gh400.jpg

:lol:

paulmara
Jan 23rd, 2013, 06:11 PM
If you like this: Then you gotta see Paulmara's/Petra's infamous Old Man Czech Mafia-Cernosek Cabal's, FBI-RICO-like Dossier complete with reconnaissance, surveillance photos and Bio's of the associated Henchmen. :haha: :rolls: :haha:

Not sure Artic Moose saw that either? It's just too much, hilarious (with all due respect to Petronius and all our proud Czech Comrades). :yeah:

I found the old post about Navratilova not being invited to Fed Cup final.




What did Navratilova say?

Some people don´t like her.

:cool: We're having an interesting controversy here. Martina Navratilova and Pavel Složil (former Davis Cup winner and Steffi Graf's coach) were not originally invited to Fed Cup and Davis Cup finals, because of their personal disputes with the CEO of the Czech tennis federation ...

Who does Jiri or Csersonek owe favors to? :tape:




http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9494/sidenyv9.jpg

A/ Czech Prime minister Petr Nečas and former Czech Trade Minister Martin Kocourek

B/ CEO of the Czech tennis federation Ivo Kaderka

Note 1 Černošek „Zdeněk(Duplák) is very important for me. At the beginning he gave me invaluable contacts and knowledge“
http://m.ihned.cz/ekonom/c1-52602470-nechci-vsechno-nejsem-magor

Note 2 Martin Kocourek and Czech president Václav Klaus

Note 3 Zdeněk Duplák become an advisor of Czech Trade Minister Martin Kocourek
Q (for Černošek) Does it mean you recommended him to Kocourek ?
„ I won´t deny that we are friends for 16 years (with Kocourek) … since he was the head of advisors for Václav Klaus … and because Zdeněk worked in foreign trade he was the ideal man for Martin.„
http://m.ihned.cz/ekonom/c1-52602470-nechci-vsechno-nejsem-magor

Note 4 Miroslav Pišťák, mayor of Prostějov recieving an award from Černoček and Kocourek for his lifetime support of tennis in Prostějov

Note 5 Černošek and Martin Hašek from opposition party

Note 6 Czech Trade Minister Kocourek resigns over financial scandal
Kocourek dismissed corruption being behind the 16 million crowns in the account of his mother, a pensioner, and said he entrusted the sum, which was originally his, to Key Investments to "deflect" it from problems connected with his divorce.
http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/zpravy/czech-trade-minister-kocourek-resigns-over-financial-scandal/713057&id_seznam=

Note 7 Martin Kocourek and Ivo Kaderka

Note 8 Former Czech Prime Minister's Aide Dalík Arrested on Corruption Charges with an attempt in 2007 to receive an 18 million euro ($23.5 million)
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/former-czech-prime-ministers-aide-arrested-on-corruption-charges--report-20121009-00085#.UJPCKMVmJLY

Note 9 Former Czech Prime Minister Topolánek, billionaire Tomáš Chrenek and Černošek

Note 10 Kaderka, Topolánek and Černošek

bruce goose
Jan 23rd, 2013, 06:40 PM
Petronius,I had forgotten that you created this thread b/c it lay dormant since last November,but I promise to limit the harsher comments to this specific thread from here on out.I wonder how common it is for WTAers to have so many indirect,yet prominent links to the mafia in their respective countries.Does Flavia have any connections to La Cosa Nostra??:lol:

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:19 PM
I found the old post about Navratilova not being invited to Fed Cup final.

:haha: :rolls: :haha:

It was certainly much more funny, out of left field and irreverent when it happened/as we led up to it. Classic!! :help: :lol: :help:

I'll move some of my recent stuff over to this thread and the other one that Moose provided the link for the other day, when I get a chance.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:49 PM
My only advice to you, bruce: get some investors, build a tennis academy, hire a few coaches and try to attract local talents and compete on the global market. :lol:

If the academy where Hingis and Kvitova developed their tennis skills and which produced the reigning Fed Cup and Davis Cup champions is so amateurish, there's no doubt that many other tennis academies are in an even more pathetic condition and you will have no problem to steal their market shares very quickly. :lol:

Can't wait for the results :hearts:


P.S. We get it, you are disappointed by Petra's recent results.

In fairness Petronius: I think what he may be saying, is stemming from the latest article, which doesn't paint the best picture of Petra, Kotyza and the new Fitness guy.

Plus, many different posters have recently said, 'Petra should change her manager, her coach, leave the Czech Republic, ditch her fitness coach, train in a warm weather climate', etc.. So they're disappointed, both with Petra's results as well as her teams.

It's not just been 1, 2 or even 3 people, or me :lol: . It's been many; some we don't even see post here often (both here in the subforum and even on GM).

I don't want to take it any further than that. But I just wanted to point out, it's not only about Petra's losses or results. It's everything thing surrounding her (both what she and her team says and does, and what we don't see or hear from them as well).

Let's say, Petra played poorly in Paris, then got better and hot and won the tournament. After, Petra gained enough confidence to win the French or Wimbledon and have a good year. It wouldn't be anything her team did. It would just be Petra playing up to her level, based off of confidence. However, what Petra and her team have failed at so far is: They have not had her physically, mentally, strategic, tennis wise and goal setting wise, prepared for the daily, month to month grind and challenge of the tour, as well as living up to her ranking. And that's a fact, regardless of any past.

And if Petra's the REAL ISSUE (I can see you saying that); then THEY should come out and say it; import qualified help, and/or leave (like most top coaches do)!? But they won't! Cause neither Koytza or Cernosek, act like there's anything terribly wrong with Petra at the moment. And Kotyza himself, recently declared that he shouldn't be let go, and should be able hang around for a while. :eek: SMH/LOL. You can't make this stuff up. :rolls::oh::rolls:

My polite two cents and observation. :)

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:51 PM
I've actually seen you guys talk about her team a lot although I've never actually seen what the real story is. I get the feeling it would be a long post but would anyone be willing to sum up the major issues with her team?
This slump of her's is really annoying me and it definitely is at very concerning levels now, I just want to have a bot more insight on it.


In simple terms:

Petra's Team is not run like your usual top 4-10, young grand slam champion, potential multi-grand slam winner, all court, explosive, talented players team.

I would compare it to, a young player, that's outgrown their coach/parents story, we've witnessed so many times.

However, in this case, it's Petra's Manager/Benefactor and his team (who he picks and provides for her), that's the over matched parent she can't/won't leave.

I hope you get the gist of it? I'm trying to be polite/respectful to some of our more impassioned, prideful Czech Comrades/Brethren. :lol:

If that's not enough, then I'll add a little more.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:52 PM
So basically, in your and others' opinions (to not offend ;) ) basically her manager is just a money hungry dictator and calls all the shots without having a clue?

It might be too much to ask but do you know any articles etc I could look at to look into this more? I don't expect you to have them offhand but if you ever have free time or something.

Thanks for the reply. :)

Whew Boy! :lol:

There are threads on here with loads of debates, quotes, links, stories, Petra team insights and articles over the past year.

Her manager is Czech. And he runs many Czech events (Prague 100k, ExtraLiga, and Czech Fed and Davis Cup). Hes' also runs the famous Prostojev Club (including formative years, Juniors and all levels of tennis, up to professional players and quasi teams). Plus he's Petra, Lucie Safarova, and Tomas Berdych's manager, as well as involved or in cahoots, with local and national politics and politicians.

So because of all this he has a big ego, with many conflicts of interest, and always wants Petra to participate in his various events, regardless of Petra's schedule, recent success and even (end of last season), her health.

There's just too much. Trust me. :lol:

As far as her team. Her Manger, strongly alluded in a article (that was posted her in her subforum), that he's the one that selects Petra's team members, and blatantly stated he could convince her to play in events, that Petra hadn't committed to yet (which he benefits from of course). Recently (in a article that was posted her as well), Petra's coach, when asked about his job security, basically blew it off, and said he should stay longer, before he mentioned it was Petra's decision. :lol:

Basically, Petra Manager, only chooses Czech's and Slovak's that are connected to his network, and loyal to him. Here in lies the problem. Her team members have made some terrible and repeated mistakes, many times seeming clueless (about game strategy, managing Petra and her asthma, goal setting, proper practice--with out injuring her, how/where to heal from illnesses during the tennis season, etc.).

Ahhh. IT's just so much.

If you want the gist off it. There was a long post, that I wrote in response to UncleSilas on GM, that would give you a great backgrounder (outside of going through the threads here). I don't remember the title or origin of the post. It may have been around Brisbane, but I don't remember.

If you want articles or links. You can find them here. Just browse through the post or pre-match articles posted (and their links), especially the Czech ones, where Petra's and her team members, are usually more honest. That will give you an idea of her team.

There was a recent CZECH ARTICLE posted here. This one reinforces how both Petra is currently mental and physically fragile; her coach has no answers, and her new fitness coach (which many of us here ridiculed during his announcement), has created problems with Petra's stroke and game (probably as a result of Petra's reduced rest and preparation, coming out of her illness, but nonetheless playing Fed Cup, an Exo and Czech Extraliga), which is what we heard previously, from another article.

But I promise you. Nothing that we discuss as actual Petra/Petra tam member events are made up here. Petra and her team, are usually quite candidate about what's not working, and what they don't do. :lol:

Believe it or not. I just wrote as little as possible. And I don't know, if I said much, due to all that I detailed in that response to UncleSilas.

If/when I get the chance, I'll try to find it (along with any recent articles). You can do the same as well. It's quite long(my response to UncleSilas), so you'll know it when you see it. Cause Uncle Silas (like you), asked me a couple of times...I tried to be polite and respectful; until he asked a few more times, and I finally told him. :lol:

Nonetheless, like I said, you can find many good links (or copy and paste jobs) here, that can give you good information, especially the Czech ones, like I said.

I hope that helps.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:54 PM
Here is the most recent Czech Reprint/Translation AshaPova (hope I spelled it right), courtesy of Google and Czech--Lufa's translation/over sight.

This one deals with the state of Petra and her team, following her loss to Laura Robson.

Google translate is our friend :), did only some necessary corrections


We have to dig out of the mud, says Kvitova coach Kotyza
18th January 2013 12:00
Melbourne (from our correspondent)

- Again. Finish her! Coach David Kotyza shout to tennis player Petra Kvitova in her battle with Robson at the Australian Open. But he saw how troubled she is. "It was clear that she is very unhappy," he said.
When Kvitova flew into the third set to 3:0, the coach believed that everything goes well. "At that moment she looked like renewed. He thought she will destroy Laura, said. "But she hesitated at 3:1, did three DF . Serve had completely gone. From 4-4 she already seemed to be bothering with herself."

What sank her? Worse fitness or poor self-esteem?
Laura looked fresher. But it was more mental freshness. Laura trusted herself, trying to overtake Petra in pressure. She went for the win. Deservedly dragged it to the end.

What was your first thought when Petra suppressed tears on court?
It was visible that she is unhappy. When opponent sees that, gives her confidence. Petya dealt with hers bad tosses, referees statement. Lots of things disturbed her. You could see that her head is not ideally set.

Does affect her disenchantment of the defeats, and the fact that the new method of fitness training does not work?
She went into the match with determination. But when she dumped the service she began to be desperate. This is a picture of how she looks. Experiencing a difficult period and today it did not help.

What will you do next?
We need to look at the program. Petya has played a few matches. We will try to request a free card on the indoor tournament in Paris, which is played around one week before the Fed Cup. We consult with Kristian Bajza (fitness coach) and Michal Safar (psychologist), how to make her again enjoying the game. We need to figure out how to dig out of the mud.

How deep are you in?
Enough. After this match keeps me alive just straw. (Smile)

You take it that your position is in danger?
Every coach goes through some bad times. But this is not yet so long that we have to address staffing issues. Maybe talk about it with Petra, but I think it is soon. Not that I want to cheer myself ...

Do you believe that changes in training show early ?
I believe. I do not know when it will come, but I believe. It is a fact that we have started something, and it would be unwise to make big waves when Petra is down.

Here's the link below:

http://sport.idnes.cz/rozhovor-s-tenisovym-trenerem-kotyzou-fcy-/tenis.aspx?c=A130117_210626_tenis_rou

Note: I think Lufa may have highlighted the bottom part, cause Petra's coach--David Kotyza, took it upon himself to declare that he sees he should stay longer (probably, cause he knows Petra's not the decision maker).

However, most questions or answers aren't bolded in her/his reprint, when you read it.

Just an FYI

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:56 PM
OK Asherapova.

I found it. Here's the detailed response I gave to UncleSilas repeated questions. I'm posting it here, instead of private messaging it, in case some one else ask, wants to know. So calm down some of my Czech Comrades. :lol:

This discussion, actually came out of Petra's Czech Extraliga loss/panic (lol), back in late December (the 18th or 19th, 2012). Here it is below, with the original question and link. I didn't realize that, when I copied it, but screw it. :lol:

I am glad you thought the same. I don´t think Petra is fat, but it is obvious that she is a bit overweight (and only for a professional tennis player, I don´t mean it disrespectfully like others) not too much, but still a bit. She was slimmer in 2011 and moved so much better, that´s what I mean. She is a tall strong woman and is never going to be the skinny type, and she is never either going to move like Radwanska or Errani, but she doesn´t need to, she just need to move good enough again to get comfortably into her hitting zone and then she can be unplayable. Sharapova has improved immensely in that field.
I got your response but I am still puzzled. It´s her manager then, but her coach, parents... they all agree? Is her circle so so close ? Why did her previous fitnees coach leave? I think he was a middle aged good looking man who used to sit besides her coach. Maybe she should change all her team, coach included and start anew?

Wow!

Where do I start? :lol:

I tried to be polite, discreet and respectful. :lol:

But yes, it's her management.

They are not set up like the management of top 10, young Wimbledon, future potential multi Grand Slam champion. They're set up like a top 100-200 player operation. And they possess too many conflicts of interest, all controlled by one person.

I, along with others, have spoken about this Plenty in Petra's subforum. But I've never went into detail here on GM. And I still won't. It's just too many examples. However, I'll try to give a decent overview. :lol:

1) Her Manager/Management seems to only hire Czech's or Slovak's within his network. Now, I don't have a problem with that if they're the best people. However, if they're not and/or presents significant delays to Petra's development, then that's a problem.

Her last Fitness Person was Ivanko. That was the gentlemen you were mentioning. He was very good actually. But he was let go. Her new fitness person (another Management choice), appears to be nothing to write home about, and almost embarrassing for a player of Petra's caliber. Trust me. :lol: That's a problem!

2) Her Manager (who's not a coach or tennis player, but a business man) actually chooses her coaches and even peripheral staff. That choice should be between Petra and her coach (and or independent tennis advisors she consults with). But her manager actually publicly brags that he's the one calling the shots and controls Petra's decision making. Can you believe that? Tacky!

And even her current coach (David Kotyza), who shows promise in some areas, and lack of promise in others; is a stooge of her manager. I think his hearts in the right place. Nonetheless he's a YES MAN for her manager. And I doubt, Petra will receive outside help (specialist--for example--to work on different tennis areas) anytime soon, if ever, at all.

3) Her Management has massive conflicts of interest. He owns/runs the Prostojev club; he's Petra's personal Manager (with massive control over her personell, career and events participation). He's a Czech Tournament promoter (Fed Cup, Prague 100K and Extraliga); and Prostojev is involved with player development as well. He's also manager of Tomas Berdych and Lucie Safarova, who are also members of the Protojev club, just as a FYI. And of course he's active in Politics.

Because of the various conflicts of interest, Petra is frequently asked (and he's actually bragged in Czech publications that he can get Petra to do what he wants) to promote or play in his silly events--even when she should be home resting/preparing for Slams or out the country practicing on outdoor hard courts, as opposed to indoor in cold ass Czech Republic. So you know; Prostojev is mainly an indoor facility.

You know, Petra hadn't had a male hitting Partner all year in 2012? Last year, she periodically used her boyfriend--Adam (also a member of her Managers Prostojev club by the way) to hit with, and look at the results she had? This year, the only time, I can recall she hit with a male hitting partner, was when she hit with the Prostojev Junior boys. Yes, you read right. :lol: And the irony of that?....Petra actually extolled the virtues of hitting with a male hitting partner (albeit junior boys), but she hadn't had one all year. Come to think of it; she hit with a Junior boy (in Adam), periodically last year as well. Amazing! SMH.

How in the world does a player with Petra's stature and presumed expectations, not have a part time, per diem or full time male hitting partners? :shrug:

4) Petra was diagnosed with asthma in 2009 at the US Open. And it appears they had taken three years to find the proper inhaler. Why? They had a host of the world doctors to choose from, and it appeared they only focused on their local Czech doctors to find the solution. Puzzling. And you can say this about practically every decision her team makes. They don't operate like a top team. And to make it worse, Petra trust them and appears to not encourage or insist in her own decision making.

5) This would explain why Martina Navratilova has said more than a few times on Tennis Channel "I don't know what's wrong with that kid, she doesn't contact me", when asked by Lindsay or her other broadcast partners on the air. This year at Fed Cup, Martina wasn't initially invited. :eek: Yes it's true. Apparently, it was a dis by one of the Czech tennis Big wigs that her manager cozies up with. It appears they may encourage her (directly or indirectly), not to speak to outside tennis advisors, due to their established, internal Czech Cliques? :help:

Former Steffi Graf coach, and Czech Pavel Složil , stated in a Czech magazine article that Petra should seek out Djokovic's people regarding her conditioning, diet, asthma and further fitness. And I agree. You see, Pavel is an independent Czech, not affiliated with Petra's manager, so speaks freely like any other normal person would. Unfortunately, I highly doubt she will.

And here in lies the big problem (and why I wrote so long :lol: ). Petra's hasn't taken charge of her career yet. And the people she has (in my opinion) don't appear to be able to take her to the next level. They caught lightening in bottle with Petra in 2011. And it was her talent, youthful optimism and confidence, which carried her through. Don't get me wrong. They did their parts/job. However, Petra needs additional support, advisors, fitness, practice and mental strength, etc., if she's to fulfill her promise. Unfortunately, her management (who appears to make the decisions) seems content, with using the people they have in their network, even if they may not be the most qualified, reputable or convenient choices.

Petra has earned enough money and the reputation (in tennis circles) to hire the best or at least top notch people in assisting her to potential greatness. However, for most of the year she didn't have an actual team. At first it was Petra, her coach and Fitness instructor. When he left, it became only Petra and her coach, until Katie The PR LADY (probably from WTA) traveled with them. And in Montreal it got so bad, that Petra actually hit with Katie before her matches there. Now give Petra credit, she won Montreal (though she could have very well lost in the first round). But how in the world can you hit with your PR Lady, who's not even a tennis player? SMH

Pavel Složil , mentioned in his interview, that he used to have Steffi hit with the top male players (and I mean the VERY top) after an easy match to get her reps. Now, not only did Petra not have any male hitting parter in 2012 in any capacity, but I've never heard of her hitting with Tomas Berdych (despite the management connection) at any slam or combined event. SMH

Until things change, Petra's team from top to bottom is just not anything to write home about. As a matter of fact, it's kind of embarrassing for a player of her caliber and recent, current success and alleged aspirations.

In short: It's like Petra has a Bad Father/Controller/Coach, that can't let go (and neither can she for that matter). Yeah, we've all seen, heard that before. The difference is; it's a greedy businessman out to further his won self interest and ego--many times at Petra's expense and detriment, I feel. She could get rid of him tomorrow if she wanted (or choose her own people to work with, if he insisted on keeping her). We know, Petra doesn't need and can get rid of him. It happens all the time with player, managers. Granted; it's a little more difficult with your mother or father as coach or manager. But that happens to. :lol:

Hopefully (though I'm not counting on it anytime soon), Petra will. We'll see? :scratch:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=472200&page=6

PS: I also came across an asthma article around that time as well. This one was actually posted on GM and not here....Maybe I'll private message it to you (only cause of the older date, and I don't want to confuse readers), if/when I get the chance? Hell, maybe I'll re post it, since her asthma continues anyway. :shrug:

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 07:58 PM
:tape:
Sweet Jesus, no hitting partner? Hitting with the effing PR LADY?
I have never heard the likes of that, and it's even stranger considering only her fans in here seem to know what's going on. I mean I would have thought that when it reached hitting with the PR Lady the Twitter journos etc would have had a field day. I'll never get my head round that one, how does she even practice? By herself?

Thanks for all the insight by the way, some things there are truly shocking. But yeah, a male hitting partner is a basic requirement for a player like Petra.

I almost missed this, cause the page flipped so fast, due to the length of the thread. :lol:

Yeah, it's crazy. Most of GM doesn't know this. And I guess the press does (or maybe they don't), and keeps it quiet. Like I said, so much of this is revealed in the Czech press. And maybe that's the reason why, the English speaking press doesn't know or reports it. :tape:

And yes, we know Petra hit with the PR lady, cause she told us in ONE OF THOSE ARTICLES. LOL

As far as the NO HITTING PARTNER SITUATIONS, I think it's twofold.

1) Both Petra's manager and coach (as I mentioned in that long post), have mentioned in the past, that 'Petra doesn't like redundant activities', so they have to give her 'different methods' to train her. So I think the monotony of a hitting partner, Petra may not like. Her manager, may also be too cheap to hire one, if he's paying for it and not Petra. How else can you explain it? :shrug:

2) Of course, the REAL problem of not having one is: It explains, why Petra, can so many times be horrid in her form to start a tournament, especially when she doesn't carry her brain with her. And if you use last year as an example, this may also explain why she couldn't beat Maria or Serena and made so many errors on the slower clay and Plexicushion vs Sharapova. Yeah, she could get by with out one (hitting partner), against most of the field. But not against Maria, Serena, and some of the other losses she had. It's a different level of pace, consistency and determination she's going to face, compared to previous opponents, leading up to them.

Common sense says: Why doesn't she or handlers get/realize this, I know??? :scratch:

But yes, it's true. And she still doesn't have one. :eek:

Power Shot
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:01 PM
Holy shit, that's a lot. Just as a wild idea, why not do one of two things(without really thinking it through):

Bring in a new full-time coach. Larry Stefanki is available. You can tell me better if he'd be a good fit for Petra, but a change is desperately needed. If Kotzya really has no clue what he's doing, Petra is doomed. I suspect she only keeps him on because she's comfortable with him. Or:

Bring in specialists. I despise the guy and will do so until the day he retires, but Novak brought in Todd Martin and one of the Woodies to work on certain parts of his game. He kept Vidja on, but brought in specialists to help out. He knew he needed a change and look at what he's doing. Petra should bring in specialists to help with her game if she really is going to continue to bring on Kotzya.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:13 PM
Holy shit, that's a lot. Just as a wild idea, why not do one of two things(without really thinking it through):

Bring in a new full-time coach. Larry Stefanki is available. You can tell me better if he'd be a good fit for Petra, but a change is desperately needed. If Kotzya really has no clue what he's doing, Petra is doomed. I suspect she only keeps him on because she's comfortable with him. Or:

Bring in specialists. I despise the guy and will do so until the day he retires, but Novak brought in Todd Martin and one of the Woodies to work on certain parts of his game. He kept Vidja on, but brought in specialists to help out. He knew he needed a change and look at what he's doing. Petra should bring in specialists to help with her game if she really is going to continue to bring on Kotzya.

I agree whole heartily with you, regarding Petra bringing in specialist and having senior advisors. That's a good idea, even if she wanted to keep Kotyza.

The problem is not ultimately Kotyza. He has some benefits as a tennis teacher, a "friend" and unfortunately a crutch to Petra. Though I'd be a liar, if I didn't tell you he appears out of his pay grade at the moment, he/she needs help.

Until Petra grows some Cajones, the problem is her Manager--Cernosek (and her love of all things Czech), that keeps her locked into her incompetent crew and training over there at Prostojev, indoors and in the cold!! Let's hope something changes.

Power Shot
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:19 PM
I agree whole heartily with you, regarding Petra bringing in specialist and having senior advisors, if she wanted to keep Kotyza. That's a good idea.

The problem is not ultimately Kotyza. He has some benefits as a tennis teacher, a "friend" and crutch to Petra. Though I'd be a liar, if I didn't tell you he appears out of his pay grade at the moment.

Until Petra grows some Cajones, the problem is her Manager--Cernosek (and her love of all things Czech), that keeps her locked into her incompetent crew and training over there at Prostojev, indoors and in the cold!!

I think that because Petra is such a laid-back and shy individual, she might be afraid of the backlash of what might happen if she makes changes. Again, you can tell me how long she's known Kotyza, but if they have a friendship or the like, she may not want to lose that.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:27 PM
I think that because Petra is such a laid-back and shy individual, she might be afraid of the backlash of what might happen if she makes changes. Again, you can tell me how long she's known Kotyza, but if they have a friendship or the like, she may not want to lose that.

I don't think Petra cares.

I think she feels happier--at this point, having other people make decisions for her.

I think she's also loyal and laid back, so doesn't see the need for changes.

She's been with Kotyza about 3-4 years now, after having a previous coach--her father didn't speak well of about 2-3 years.

He did help her realize her game, culminating in great success in 2011. However, they all seem ill equipped to manager her--on a high level--day to day, month to month and into the future, unless they get help or things change otherwise.

They're out of their league at the moment.

bruce goose
Jan 24th, 2013, 09:30 AM
Have decided to add the extra 'C' to the team name,which will now be 'Cermosek's Czech Clown College',or "CCCC".Just to avoid the ugly misunderstanding we had last year during the USO Series,I'm not casting any negative light on the Czech people or the CR by including 'Czech' in the title;it's merely an indicator of the Czech-only cronyism that Petra's manager seems to be highly guilt of in assembling a subpar team for a true shining star who deserves better

bruce goose
Feb 1st, 2013, 03:15 AM
Okay,Petronius was kind enough:angel: to create this thread for us,so it'd be a shame to waste it......Here's a clip where Petra's chief medical advisor,Dr.Bernard Pikola,blesses a prospective patient with some of his typical expert advice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsqHBexWD1w

bruce goose
Feb 1st, 2013, 11:37 PM
GREAT NEWS:D!! Now there will be an easy way to identify Petra's management team whenever they travel outside the CR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ZkdHImCuQ

(During MTO in last year's USO 4th Round,when Petra was totally spent following a full month of tennis w/o rest):

Coach: Feeling tired,Petra:confused:
Petra: Nope! I'm just method acting for a role in which the character is dying of exhaustion.Here's your sign:rolleyes:

PetraReeMona
Feb 2nd, 2013, 01:18 AM
:rolls: :haha: :happy: :sobbing:

You're MAD!! :lol:

pov
Feb 7th, 2013, 03:17 PM
So . . .is it just that her team does a much better job during Fed Cup? ;)

ShiftyFella
Feb 7th, 2013, 03:26 PM
So . . .is it just that her team does a much better job during Fed Cup? ;)
Petr Pala does better job then her team:p

bruce goose
Feb 7th, 2013, 03:32 PM
Petr Pala does better job then her team:pYes,I think that our favorite out-patient got a little confused:lol:.Petronius could correct me if I'm mistaken,but I'm pretty sure that Petra's team has very little or nothing to do with how she does in the FC events.As you cite above,Petr Pala is the coach and,in that capacity,he works for the Czech Tennis Federation and not,in any way,for Petra's team

steni
Feb 7th, 2013, 07:05 PM
I thought Pala was Stepanek coach as well... No?

bruce goose
Feb 7th, 2013, 08:12 PM
I thought Pala was Stepanek coach as well... No?He has the same first name,but it's Petr Korda,not Pala...he was a pretty good player in his prime.Like Petra,he rose all the way to the #2 ranking,and he's the last Czech male to win a Slam singles title

Quise platicar contigo por correo pero no supe si usas guion bajo en tu direccion,pues habia un mensaje automatico por una falla

Raiden
Feb 7th, 2013, 09:43 PM
http://img.ihned.cz/attachment.php/580/33008580/ot3458CDEFGJLMNkPQbcdef01SUw9RVn/EK33_12_Cernosek1_jr.jpghttp://img.ihned.cz/attachment.php/580/33008580/ot3458CDEFGJLMNkPQbcdef01SUw9RVn/EK33_12_Cernosek1_jr.jpgIs Cernosek separated at birth from a certain toad?



http://answers.bettor.com/images/Articles/thumbs/extralarge/2010_10_16-2010_10_16_5_44_59-jpg-34377.jpg

pov
Feb 8th, 2013, 05:13 PM
Yes,I think that our favorite out-patient got a little confused:lol:.Petronius could correct me if I'm mistaken,but I'm pretty sure that Petra's team has very little or nothing to do with how she does in the FC events.As you cite above,Petr Pala is the coach and,in that capacity,he works for the Czech Tennis Federation and not,in any way,for Petra's team:facepalm:
As I just said in another post to you - "get a clue will ya!" I mean seriously - just how stupid are you?

1 - The one week of involvement by another coach generally doesn't do much. What, you think that Mary Jo Fernadez makes Serena Williams a better player? :haha:

2 - If you looked at the Czech teams vids you'd see that Kotyza is there working with her. For example -(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4760103078203&set=vb.290431189516&type=3)

bruce goose
Feb 8th, 2013, 07:26 PM
:facepalm:
As I just said in another post to you - "get a clue will ya!" I mean seriously - just how stupid are you?

1 - The one week of involvement by another coach generally doesn't do much. What, you think that Mary Jo Fernadez makes Serena Williams a better player? :haha:

2 - If you looked at the Czech teams vids you'd see that Kotyza is there working with her. For example -(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4760103078203&set=vb.290431189516&type=3)I'll have to call the Steinem-Ireland-Clinton Center for Neurotic Bitter Gringas to tell them to increase your meds again:lol:.You'll notice that I haven't bothered to put you on 'ignore' b/c your puny reasoning and digs are no threat to anyone who,unlike you,has adequate self-esteem;).

Just for humor's sake,though:p,let's look at your infantile,NON-Spock-like illogic.No one's suggesting that Pala has any major influence on Petra's play;merely that Petra's coach has a far lesser role in the FC event.Even if Huggy Bear shows up,it's pretty stupid to imply that his coaching 'techniques' somehow work during FC while failing the rest of the year...unless you have evidence--which you don't,of course:p--that he used different strategies to prepare Petra for FC....Spock would give you a HUGE:facepalm: if he existed beyond your TV/fantasy world:lol:

steni
Feb 8th, 2013, 07:40 PM
Is Cernosek separated at birth from a certain toad?



http://answers.bettor.com/images/Articles/thumbs/extralarge/2010_10_16-2010_10_16_5_44_59-jpg-34377.jpg

Wow!

PetraReeMona
Feb 8th, 2013, 08:18 PM
I'll have to call the Steinem-Ireland-Clinton Center for Neurotic Bitter Gringas to tell them to increase your meds again:lol:.You'll notice that I haven't bothered to put you on 'ignore' b/c your puny reasoning and digs are no threat to anyone who,unlike you,has adequate self-esteem;).

Just for humor's sake,though:p,let's look at your infantile,NON-Spock-like illogic.No one's suggesting that Pala has any major influence on Petra's play;merely that Petra's coach has a far lesser role in the FC event.Even if Huggy Bear shows up,it's pretty stupid to imply that his coaching 'techniques' somehow work during FC while failing the rest of the year...unless you have evidence--which you don't,of course:p--that he used different strategies to prepare Petra for FC....Spock would give you a HUGE:facepalm: if he existed beyond your TV/fantasy world:lol:

:haha: :rolls: :worship: :bowdown:

BANG!!!!!!!!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-026.gif

AMAZING POST BruceGoose :bounce::bounce:

MrThinksHeKnowsItAllPov obviously doesn't know it all :tape::lol:

EDIT: BIB - that it so damn obvious from all of his posts that his self-esteem is so low - yet he thinks it doesn't show :hah: :hysteric:

bruce goose
Mar 2nd, 2013, 03:18 PM
Okay,I mention Petronius first NOT to hurt his feelings again,but because he's the worst offender within the realm below.Can't say whether he just has EXTREMELY poor critical thinking skills...or is just afraid to address the issues...perhaps both:shrug:

#1 Stupid excuse: Cermosek is just a businessman.
Obvious and COMPLETELY irrelevant.The problem is that he's making PERSONAL decisions about clients that most non-micro-managing business entrepreneurs/owners would delegate to competent subordinates,and he lacks the knowledge to act in those other capacities

#2 Stupid excuse: None of the players are complaining about Cermosek.
On an interesting side note,the ones who trot out THAT excuse can't find any contrasting testimonies that PRAISE the guy for making them better players,either:lol:.On a simple,logical level,no normal client would complain about his/her business manager unless he/she were cheated out of money or not provided with basic services.An actress usually wouldn't blame her manager for her not winning an Oscar,but she MIGHT blame him/her if the actress/client discovered that her manager had a bad relationship with several top directors,thus limiting the client's chances at great roles.Herein lies a problem that's been ignored by CCC apologists here.Petra appears to be UNAWARE of what she needs to become a consistent,elite player and,when you see how her team sat silently by when she chose to play 5 STRAIGHT WEEKS without rest going into the USO:help:,some of her team members are pretty ignorant,too.If a client doesn't know what he/she is missing out on(to become an elite player),then he/she wouldn't complain about not receiving it:shrug:

#3 Stupid excuse: Cermosek provides Petra with top-notch facilities and services.
The jet is nice,but what about having NO male hitting partner?...or a coach that few people have even heard of(when legends are likely willing and available)?...or failing to get Petra the right inhaler for THREE YEARS?Case closed

#4 Stupid excuse: As a business manager,Cermosek can't be expected to be an expert on all tennis aspects.

This is the only one that smacks of sound logic,but it doesn't apply HERE b/c,even according to Czech posters here,he constantly brags to the media about how much control he has over Petra's operation and how much credit he supposedly deserves for her victories.Most importantly,HE COULD EASILY ACQUIRE TOP-NOTCH SUBORDINATES TO REPORT TO HIM...and yet he fails to do so,even with a high-priority client.Unless he's merely blowing smoke to show off to the local media,his own words betray the fact that he IS meddling with those smaller,fine,tennis-related details that a business manager typically wouldn't know enough about.

This sub-forum was in danger of turning into a Partisan Bitch forum where certain Czech posters challenged the right of NON-Czechs to disagree with anything that Cermosek or Petra does,so I truly applaud the Czech posters who haven't leaned on that cheap,corny crutch:hatoff:.We surely won't agree on many Petra-related issues...which is just fine:)...but at least we won't have any control from the snippy,bitchy attitude that ONLY Czechs are allowed to be candid about Petra or her team

mac47
Mar 2nd, 2013, 10:55 PM
Fair enough, Bruce. And thank you for keeping it all relegated to this thread.

I find it very hard to believe that Cernosek is to blame for Petra not using a male hitting partner. The blame for that surely lies with Petra herself and with Kotyza.

A shame, too, because I think a male hitting partner could easily simulate Serena and Maria's serves and groundstrokes.

Excelscior
Mar 3rd, 2013, 01:48 AM
Fair enough, Bruce. And thank you for keeping it all relegated to this thread.

I find it very hard to believe that Cernosek is to blame for Petra not using a male hitting partner. The blame for that surely lies with Petra herself and with Kotyza.

A shame, too, because I think a male hitting partner could easily simulate Serena and Maria's serves and groundstrokes.

Great points (bolded). A male hitting partner, would simulate Sharapova and Serena very well, and/or keep Petra warmed up for early rounds in tournaments.I agree and have said this before many times.

However, with all due respect Mac (on your earlier comments), I'm not sure how much you pay attention to Cersonek. Now, I'm not going to go into grave detail here (cause I have so many times in the past). But in a simple nutshell, Cersonek is involved in way too many aspects of Petra's career. Bruce is right. Let me list some:

*He's Petra's tennis Manager.

*He's Petra's promoter (or lead in for any advertisers, endorsements)

*He picks, and/or strongly recommends her coaching staff; and publicly brags about it.

*All his coaches and tennis specialist appear to be from HIS own network in the Czech Republic or Slovakia. He has no outsiders. Not even independent Czech's, like Navratilova, Pavel Slozil or Ivan Lendl, who don't always see eye to eye with Petra's current coaches, regimen and managers. Why isn't competence, and getting the best personnel for Petra--from anywhere the priority?

Just so you know: Kotyza's not independent. He's a Cersonek stooge. Remember how Cersonek got rid of Ivanko, and brought in the new MMA guy she has now, after his alleged search and announcement? Yeah, just think of that.

*Petra learned at Prostojev during her formative years as a teenager. So he's a facilities owner as well.

*Petra plays at his Czech Sponsored events, in the Czech Republic, at the possible sacrifice of rest or recuperation sometimes. He publicly bragged he could strongly urge her to play Fed Cup this year (this was said last year, by the way), before Petra had even committed to doing so....Tacky!!

*Petra plays on his Prostojev teams at Extraliga. Last year, Petra ended her vacation early, to play Czech Extraliga...Why? :shrug:

*Fed Cup, Prague 100K and/or big Czech Exo's, will usually involve Petra and a commitment (implied, begged or real) to Cersonek. He's got something to lose (or to face up to, with his Czech Crony, politician friends), if Petra doesn't show. Last year, Petra was sick, and they basically dragged her out of bed, to play in that (you guessed it), Cersonek Promoted EXO against Sharapova, mind you the Cersonek affiliated Fed Cup as well. Maybe another coach or manager, not affiliated with organizing Czech Tennis events, would have skipped all those events altogether (if any of us really believe Petra's team, that her new fitness regimen screwed up her early 2013 tennis)? :scratch: Couldn't they had started her new regimen the last month or two of the year in 2012? Oh yeah, sorry! Petra had to play Fed Cup, Extraliga, and her Exo, while and after recovering from her virus. :help: Are you getting the picture?

Most tennis people, are usually involved in only 1, 2 or at most, three aspects of ONE players career (though rarely even that). Cersonek, on the other hand, is a one stop shop Walmart, Home Depot and McDonalds of services for Petra Kvitova. Arrangements like these, always create massive conflicts of interest, and Petra has experienced many with Cersonek already. There's an old saying in sports and entertainment, that "you never give one person so much control over your career".

Someone earlier said, his players don't complain? That's because, Cernosek gets a certain type of loyal Czech player (plus Cersonek is a very powerful and connected man in Czech circles, so you don't really won't to publicly bad mouth him). :lol:

Nonetheless, you notice, Martina Nav, Pavel Slozil, and even Ivan Lendl (to a certain degree), have all strongly criticized or questioned Petra and/or her current team, regimen or training? You notice how some people are not invited or friendly with the Cersonek or current Czech Big wigs (no matter how great their tennis resumes?

It's not a world class, professional operation over there (sorry my Czech brethren). And it's way too Czech, Slovak and Cersonek Centered, instead of PETRA or PROFESSIONAL CENTERED!!

In other words, instead of Petra's Coaches and Advisors (which she has none, outside of him and his cronies), running the show and making the decisions--as you think they should Mac. It's Cersonek! And if it's not Cersonek, and it's Petra just going along with what he says (cause she doesn't care), then what's the difference? :shrug: Managers should be expendable, and have specific roles. On the other hand, this guys has his tentacles and finger prints all over Petra. :eek:

bruce goose
Mar 3rd, 2013, 03:55 AM
Fair enough, Bruce. And thank you for keeping it all relegated to this thread.

I find it very hard to believe that Cernosek is to blame for Petra not using a male hitting partner. The blame for that surely lies with Petra herself and with Kotyza.

A shame, too, because I think a male hitting partner could easily simulate Serena and Maria's serves and groundstrokes.Is it an obvious,unavoidable truth amongst WTA players that they need a male hitting partner??I'm not knowledgeable enough about the players' mindsets to comment on that.If it IS one of those 'Duhhh' realities that even any idiot should know,then you're right--Petra IS more culpable than her manager b/c she's bucking against common sense,and slowing her progress,if your belief is true....I just haven't heard such a consensus amongst female players,so I can't accept your opinion as fact w/o more evidence.It'd be disappointing if Petra understood that she needed a male hitting partner and rebelliously refused to seek one.

As for the coach,I agree with you that HE should definitely be aware of Petra's need,but let's not forget that he was a handpicked Cermosek guy.I'm willing to concede that a business manager might not be automatically aware of the male hitting partner necessity;however,this runs counter to Petronius' characterization of Cermosek as a Tennis Genius who made Hingis what she was.He sort of implies that Cermosek deserved more credit for her success than Martina herself did.So far,I haven't read anything SPECIFIC--not one solitary thing--which Cermosek did to earn such an Infallible Unquestionable Expert label,aside from throwing his money around to construct some facilities.I'd LOVE to read how he,himself,came up with the training regimens that Hingis followed en route to Slam glory...or designed the youth player development techniques used at the academy...or gave a player some wise insight that launched his/her pro success.

....but I'm still waiting to read such evidence b/c Petronius never offers any:shrug:.Apparently,he expects us to act like dumb sheep Catholics and blindly worship Cermosek,as HE does,as the Czech Pope of tennis managers:silly:.If you haven't hurt his feelings yet:lol:,maybe YOU could ask him to furnish us with more solid proof of Cermosek's tennis genius...though you probably wouldn't get ANY reply,either;).As I've posted before,if we get ANY links where a credible source like Hingis,Lendl,Slozil,etc. credits Cermosek with being a cutting-edge,brilliant tennis pioneer,then I'll apologize sincerely...and permanently desist from criticizing his management of Petra............just don't hold your breath waiting for such a glowing testimony--from outside this forum;)

Palkov
Mar 3rd, 2013, 08:34 AM
Cersonek /Is that your permanent nickname for him, Ex?:)/, on the other hand, is a one stop shop Walmart, Home Depot and McDonalds of services for Petra Kvitova. Arrangements like these, always create massive conflicts of interest, and Petra has experienced many with Cersonek already. There's an old saying in sports and entertainment, that "you never give one person so much control over your career".

Agree...could it be possible that, knowing the fact that Petra is coming from a small town far away from Prague spotlights and kept away even from Prostejov=Cernosek's facility till age of 15-16, she thinks that this kind of management is the best for her. That Mr.Almighty will manage everything and allows her to work without any distractions. Poor Petra...hope you will find a different side of reality soon and choose whether current setup is the best. Hope, she already have not chosen

Excelscior
Mar 3rd, 2013, 01:25 PM
Agree...could it be possible that, knowing the fact that Petra is coming from a small town far away from Prague spotlights and kept away even from Prostejov=Cernosek's facility till age of 15-16, she thinks that this kind of management is the best for her. That Mr.Almighty will manage everything and allows her to work without any distractions. Poor Petra...hope you will find a different side of reality soon and choose whether current setup is the best. Hope, she already have not chosen

I was thinking the same thing earlier.

Petra obviously signed an arrangement, when she was a relative tennis nobody.

Now that Petra is a TENNIS SOMEBODY, and has her own career related concerns, she doesn't need an arrangement line this anymore.

As a matter of fact (good for them), none of the other top players have one like this.

Excelscior
Mar 3rd, 2013, 02:27 PM
PS: Mac

Based off what I've read and heard from Petra's team in the past, it's a collective decision (based of the premise, Petra doesn't like Monotonous activities) regarding not have a hitting partner.

However, I will point out, the two times I remember Petra having one, they were both Prostojev affiliated hitting partners (Adam in intermittently in 2011 and the Prostojev Junior boys--late last year for YEC preparation). So if Cernosenk, can provide the Prostojev boys, then why not recommend or hire real hitting partners? You see, once again, we got that One Stop Shop Market for Petra with him.

As I was saying yesterday, I think Petra's team mentality (based off what I've always heard from them), is to manage Petra for their Sports Psychologist perspective. Every thing is to keep her relaxed and calm it appears. However, this method has it's limitations.

Think about it? If a Shrink told Petra "you could be great". Petra would be looking at that Shrink saying, "what do you know about tennis"!? And she would probably add to herself "I don't want to be great". Lol. "I just want to play my tennis, travel the world, and win some tournaments here and there, with out too much pressure and expectations", she'd probably say. Right? Lol.

So at that point, what could a shrink do, but try to manage Petra as they have (unless they try to under handily move/get her to where they want her to be). :shrug: That's probably not going to work either/anyway. :lol: You see a sports psychologist has their limitations if you don't have a 100% cooperative client. :lol: Plus, Petra's beyond a Sports shrink. She needs high level, world class psychological, motivational, instructional coaching and advisement, even more so.

Now, if a Martina Nav, Pavel Slozil or Lendl, tell Petra in her face, "You can be great"; it has a whole different meaning, feeling and context". Petra just can't blow them off (either in her response and/or in her mind). There's a respect, "been there done that" experience/success factor present. This is probably one of the reasons why Martina can't hook up with Petra the way she wants, cause Petra knows Martina brings a whole bunch of respect, self analysis and guilt with anything she says--especially criticism or advice (unless Martina's just plain unreasonable of course). Even a great, lesser known coach or advisor, could get Petra to see things in a different perspective, unlike her current team. Either way; Petra's not having it, and wants no part of this type of arrangement at the moment. :lol:

So here you have a group of people in Cernosenk, Kotyza, the sports psychologist (and who ever) who obviously can't persuade, inspire or motivate Petra (the past two years) to even have a regular male hitting partner. Nonetheless, it appears Cernosenk is willing to place THIS bet, instead of one which has A REAL COACH or INDEPENDENT ADVISOR's that can truly motivate and inspire Petra NOW, before she (hopefully) matures from this moment or 3months-3yrs later!? :shrug:

Now don't get me wrong Mac. Bless their heart. Despite what I've written, I do think Petra's team (overall) tries to do the right thing for her. I do! They're several caveats to this premise though: 1) They don't always know what they're doing (just check the end of 2011 Extraliga Injury Fiasco, first 1/3 of 2012 Cold Weather/Injury Fiasco, and the first third of this year, "New Training Methods" fiasco, plus many unmentioned others). 2) They don't always move fast enough, in various decision making that affects Petra. 3) There's usually a Czech or Slovak from Cernosenk's network involved. 4)If there's a Cernosenk sponsored tennis event, you know there's almost a 100% certainty Petra will perform in it, even if she has time off, and could use/need the practice, rest or recuperation. :fiery:

bruce goose
Mar 3rd, 2013, 03:18 PM
Okay,Ex,this will be my lone contribution for the day(aside from a PM)---Are you really so sure that Petra has no interest in learning from a great coach or ex-player,or is this simply a case of loyalty to the team who was with her when she rose to the top(even a possible fear of contractual hassles)?

Excelscior
Mar 3rd, 2013, 03:56 PM
Okay,Ex,this will be my lone contribution for the day(aside from a PM)---Are you really so sure that Petra has no interest in learning from a great coach or ex-player,or is this simply a case of loyalty to the team who was with her when she rose to the top(even a possible fear of contractual hassles)?

I think it's loyalty. I think it's comfortability (Petra appears like she doesn't want to be stressed out with constant expectations). I think it's Petra's nonchalant attitude about things, and maybe a Czech, camaraderie, pride factor as well. It could be all those things. :lol:

I don't think it's a contractual thing (maybe a Family/Politics/Czech thing more so). I'm sure Petra could buy her way out of any agreement she had with Cernosenk. As a matter of fact/at this point, Petra could argue, that she's brought more value to Cernosenk's activities/ventures, than she would owe him if she left.

Petra just doesn't seem like a rock the boat type anyway. Now, of course, some would argue that her current management team, encourages Petra to stay away from bringing in independent advisors, coaches and/or tennis specialist to assist her (by sheer examples and lack of them). :shrug:

Does Petra agree with this, or she's just too dumb, naive or uncaring to even notice or care? Of course good coaching could make Petra think out the box, inspire/strive her to do more, and things differently, etc.. But who knows if this is what she wants at the moment, and why she keeps her currently motley Crue/team (and she stays away from people like Martina)? :lol: :confused: :lol:

Nonetheless, its' also possible that Petra just doesn't Know better (despite all the example around her on the tour). And feels the team she has is doing a credible job, or she's at where she should be? :shrug: Either way; to your question. Petra's ultimately 'in on it', and bears equal responsibility with her many times clueless, self serving management and coaching team, for it to persist.

Like everything concerning Petra; it's always both simple and complicated, with a dash of the unknown sprinkled in for added measure and ingredients!! :lol:

Excelscior
Mar 9th, 2013, 02:52 PM
Yesterday, when I was listening to Petra's radio broadcast at Indian Wells (at least the portions I could stomach), there was this annoying British Broadcaster who kept discussing Petra's 2011 Wimbledon Ad Nauseum. He wouldn't shut up about it (along with his American Partner, who couldn't get anything right about Petra's game or her own incorrect predispositions about it)! If it was annoying to me, I can only imagine how annoying it must be to Petra being asked over and over again.

Nonetheless, this got me to thinking. If Petra wants the media to stop Bringing up Wimbledon 2011....Just win another major (especially in spectacular fashion), and they won't ask you about it that way anymore. :lol:

It's the same for her "Dream Year" in 2011, which Petra alludes she may not have again. She's wrong! If you have another great/"Dream Season" Petra, then people will stop mentioning/referencing 2011 so much! They only got one year to talk about!

And this is where her current coaching and management (with employing and strongly believing in the current Sports Psychologist stragegy) fails her. Think about it? It's like someone with a lone hit movie, record or TV show. When being interviewed, it's the only thing (or you'll be sure) they'll bring up. Now when you have multiple hits, they'll usually talk about what you're currently doing, what you plan to do in the future, while different people may see or have their own highlights of your career, if/when they eventually get to it. It's a totally different type of interview and scenario.

Petra actually feels more pressure being a lone Wimbledon/Grand Slam Champ with a lone great year than if she won another/more major/s or had better years. So this whole approach of , 'more winning brings more pressure' is ultimately kind of backwards and short sighted. Now, if Petra had better coaching and management they would know this to and say to Petra "If you want the press to stop asking you about Wimbledon 2011 like that, just win another Major Petra". And can't we all see Petra responding with, "Really! That's all I have to to do to get these bothersome press people to stop asking me about The Wimbledon and The Dream Season in 2011?... Just win some more of them? Okay (with a smile). No problem. It's done! I win some more Majors then" :lol:

The irony is (to the current approach): I think if Petra won more, the press would bother her less, cause she would at least satisfy some of the expectations and cravings they had for her. Right now, the press is unfulfilled and still waiting. If Petra won another major, and/or had another great year the pressure would actually be reduced. Think about it? If Petra had another great year and major, when the press ask her "What's your approach this year to winning a major" and Petra gives her usual BS Boilerplate answer of, "Oh I just want to improve and focus on my game". After that, they'll take her more seriously or at her word at least (due to previous success), than if she says the same thing when she's obviously struggling or been a non factor.

Unfortunately, these are only things that players, good coaching and advisors would notice and employ. It's not for a shrink, who frankly can't shuttle between the psychology of tennis and it's practical, motivational, inspirational and common sense/real world applications to a players mind, on and off the court. Petra's shrink is managing one portion of it; the symptoms of Petra's personality. I get it! On the other hand, good/Sharp coaching, advisors or management can notice, explain, and manage the psychological, plus bridge the sport in comfortable, relevant words, scenarios and common sense. That's the difference. If Sports shrinks were so great, they would be coaching most major players and teams around the world. But you notice they're not? :scratch: It's cause they're just one tool in the tool box. That's all. Plus, Petra's way beyond some small time Shrink now anyway. She's operating on a totally different level. Like I've said before, she needs top level coaching, advisors or management. But I guess that's all Cernosenk has in his stable and/or can trust at the moment. :shrug:

I know I said it before, but their current 'Scary Scared approach' is wrong and actually hindering/delaying Petra's development. :confused:

PS: Another argument/approach could or would be: With Petra's talent, she will always get criticized for losing and there will always be expectations after winning. So she might as well EMBRACE IT and try to win every tournament she can. Let's face it. She can't run or hide from it!! :shrug:

These are some of the realities and approaches that Petra's team should be strategically trying to communicate to her. And if they can't; find some others that successfully can and/or will! Oh well; enough!! :eek: Onward to the next match in IW!! :lol:

ShiftyFella
Mar 9th, 2013, 03:52 PM
PS: Another argument/approach could or would be: With Petra's talent, she will always get criticized for losing and there will always be expectations after winning. So she might as well EMBRACE IT and try to win every tournament she can. Let's face it. She can't run or hide from it!! :shrug:

:spit: It's what she tries to do steeping on court every time, if she wins enough matches in a row she will get tournament wins. Media will always bother her, if she wins or loses, especially when loses. Wimbledon 2011\Dream Year and other stupid stuff brought only by retarded US media who knows nothing and remembers about Petra only when she makes the buzz, otherwise they can't remember who she is, because Petra smart girl and don't use tour for her own self promotion to attract sponsorship deals, media attentions and be constantly in spotlight.
Petra doesn't need to change or embrace anything just because of stupid media. Petra has right attitude but you probably forgot what it is, so i will kindly remind you;)

What do you like most about life on the Tour?
PK: Winning tennis matches!

Excelscior
Mar 9th, 2013, 05:04 PM
:spit: It's what she tries to do steeping on court every time, if she wins enough matches in a row she will get tournament wins. Media will always bother her, if she wins or loses, especially when loses. Wimbledon 2011\Dream Year and other stupid stuff brought only by retarded US media who knows nothing and remembers about Petra only when she makes the buzz, otherwise they can't remember who she is, because Petra smart girl and don't use tour for her own self promotion to attract sponsorship deals, media attentions and be constantly in spotlight.
Petra doesn't need to change or embrace anything just because of stupid media. Petra has right attitude but you probably forgot what it is, so i will kindly remind you;)

Petra herself doesn't help her own career adjustment (in so many ways, not in just what I'm about to say. ). SHE keeps mentioning the term "DREAM YEAR" to the press, presumably to take pressure off repeating a similar year in the future when talking to the them. She thinks it's helping her that way. But it's really not.

Petra's so afraid of creating future expectations, that she won't dismiss or move on from 2011 altogether. She's always happy to discuss or placate the media, instead of discussing potential future majors like most real, serious champions do. This approach only/actually reinforces the Wimbledon 2011 talk instead of dissipating it (while Petra thinks it subconsciously takes the pressure off her in the present). No, No, NO!

Petra can say what she wants (her statement at the end of your post). Based off of everything we've seen and heard from her (along with her current coaching and management team and decisions), it doesn't appear as if Petra tries or is doing her best every day, every tournament she's on the court. Words are hollow. Actions speak louder.

I know you see it differently, and that's fine. Obviously, a lot of people feel Petra can do much better, and missed many golden opportunities--already over the past year plus. And they don't want to see anymore slip out of her hands if she can help it.

I can certainly see that viewpoint. :shrug:

As far as Petra and the press, regarding expectations: It's quite obvious, that Petra hasn't learned to master or control the press yet in the least. Just read her quotes while she was struggling the first two months of the year, and even last year. The press and their expectations are obviously on her mind and do bother/annoy her periodically, while affecting or placing more pressure on her play, by her own admissions. It shouldn't.

All this, doesn't mean Petra can't win or get better in the future. Of course not, and of course she can! It just means that, she has an inexperienced, amateurish team of handlers who can't/won't reduce the acclimation and adjustment period of Petra (down) to the smallest time possible, more professional, capable and savvy handlers would.

Anyone who doesn't openly acknowledge this little tid bit (not necessarily you Shifty), are just fooling themselves. The rest is up to her. Nonetheless, it is what it is!! :shrug:

bruce goose
Apr 4th, 2013, 09:17 PM
Here's a clip of the guy who was ALMOST added to Petra's medical team
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JiyUkDe7PA

The big boss really liked his strategy of using leeches to suck the "asthma germs" out of Petra's blood whenever she felt sick.The fact that he's American and not Czech didn't hurt him that much,either,b/c the team has gotten used to a foreigner like Katie Spellman.No,what ruined his candidacy was that the rest of the team felt that he was "too intellectual"

bruce goose
Apr 7th, 2013, 03:21 PM
Here's an old Katie Spellman audition,an autobiographical monologue...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chc-avSvKNI

...from back in the days when she had her own ambitions at becoming a big star,as opposed to riding the bandwagon of WTA players like Petra

Raiden
Apr 7th, 2013, 03:30 PM
I see there is a videographic theme developing :lol:

ZEUS77
Apr 7th, 2013, 04:58 PM
gl petra in poland

ZEUS77
Apr 7th, 2013, 04:58 PM
you are fave for win title

bruce goose
Apr 9th, 2013, 04:45 AM
I see there is a videographic theme developing :lol:It's important for folks to gain inspiration from seeing the genius of the Petra Team in action.......like watching one of them struggle to walk UP the down escalator at the local department store for around 10 minutes...until a security guard arrives and informs the brilliant one that he's going the wrong way;)

bruce goose
Apr 24th, 2013, 09:03 PM
Earlier,I was concerned that Petra might overplay herself to exhaustion again while leading up to the USO,but it turns out that I was overreacting because Cermosek has two of his TOP men planning Petra's tourney schedule and travel itinerary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnkefjCES-4

Now I realize how unfounded my fears were;with THOSE two guys in charge,there's NOTHING to worry about:D

bruce goose
May 1st, 2013, 07:36 PM
After hearing the surprising news that Petra's physio is highly-respected,we now know that she has a renowned linguistics pro on her team as well.Personally,I don't care if Petra:hearts: NEVER wants to speak English,but Cermosek would like to increase her endorsement earning potential,so he hired this elite pro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgXB9GbIeWM

Petra will be talking like a native speaker in almost NO TIME FLAT!:D

bruce goose
May 27th, 2013, 08:38 PM
Some of you fans are worrying about the absence of Petra's fitness coach as a sign of a poorly-run team,but Cermosek has put his son,Milos Junior,on the case...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XvxDaIwCw

....To make sure that everything works like a perfectly-oiled machine:yeah:

bruce goose
Jun 4th, 2013, 10:41 PM
....And here's another rebuke for all of you cynics who claim that Cermosek only hires stooges and yes-men to run Petra's team.What an impeccable chain-of-command this is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0

Kind of surprising,though,cuz I'd thought that Cermosek was a little bit taller:p

bruce goose
Jun 7th, 2013, 10:12 PM
After yet ANOTHER in a series of attempted Cermosek/Prostejov/ATP blow jobs;) in the main tourney forum today, it's time for another close look at how well Petra's team is,or isn't, managing things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZgVRJ-H8U

Yep!The same high level of professionalism as always:yeah:

Petronius
Jul 5th, 2014, 03:01 PM
I am disappointed, only two Wimbledon titles by the age of 24 :shrug:

Please improve :smash:

Excelscior
Jul 5th, 2014, 03:16 PM
I am disappointed, only two Wimbledon titles by the age of 24 :shrug:

Please improve :smash:

Eh

We can talk about Petra, her team, the past few years, and the "woulda, coulda, shoulda's", a few days after the match.

Now let's enjoy Petra's victory/dominance, and let it sink in and/or celebrates.

Petra and many of us have been through a lot the past 2 1/2 years.

Let's leave the overt, immediate speculation (of Petra's future) to some on GM

Congrats Petra Kvitova!! :worship:

paulmara
Jul 17th, 2014, 05:07 PM
police investigated Černošek again

http://www.lidovky.cz/policii-zajimaji-skolske-dotace-ktere-sly-kejvalovi-a-cernoskovi-pyq-/zpravy-domov.aspx?c=A140715_215545_ln_domov_ele#utm_sourc e=idnes&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=sph

steni
Jul 17th, 2014, 09:34 PM
Does Cernosek takes care of Petra's finances?

Excelscior
Jul 18th, 2014, 01:16 AM
Does Cernosek takes care of Petra's finances?

It doesn't even really matter, if Cersonek/Prostojev really gets a reported 30% of her income/revenues. :eek:

If that's true, that's absolute highway robbery. :help:

Managing her money (I doubt it/hope not) would only add injury to insult.

Petra could leave him tomorrow (especially if she went outside the Czech Republic), and find a better agent and/or manager who would only take 5% of her tennis earnings, and a larger stake (25 up to 50% that they bring in) of her endorsement, outside income. However, we know that's not going to happen.

Czech nationalism/pride, Comrades aside; her arrangement (if true) is an absolute joke/travesty!! :tape:

But hey. It's Petra's life. So she can do as she pleases/what makes her happy. :lol: :angel: :lol:

mac47
Jul 18th, 2014, 07:53 AM
I wonder if Petra's endorsements surpass her on-court winnings.

outlier
Jul 18th, 2014, 09:00 AM
IMO if she wins another slam, then yes. If she had a better agent than Cernosek, it could have been already done. Insightful articles @ http://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelmorales/2013/10/22/petra-kvitova-tennis-3-million-woman-focuses-on-results-not-revenue/ and http://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelmorales/2014/07/05/petra-kvitova-wins-wimbledon-but-bouchard-will-win-sponsorship-race-because-of-how-we-market-female-tennis-stars/.

vendulkabendulka
Jul 18th, 2014, 09:41 AM
IMO if she wins another slam, then yes. If she had a better agent than Cernosek, it could have been already done. Insightful articles @ http://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelmorales/2013/10/22/petra-kvitova-tennis-3-million-woman-focuses-on-results-not-revenue/ and http://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelmorales/2014/07/05/petra-kvitova-wins-wimbledon-but-bouchard-will-win-sponsorship-race-because-of-how-we-market-female-tennis-stars/.

Actually, there was another very interesting article at Forbes the other day about Petra from marketing point of view. It migth have been posted here before.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelmorales/2013/10/22/petra-kvitova-tennis-3-million-woman-focuses-on-results-not-revenue/

outlier
Jul 18th, 2014, 11:33 AM
^It might have. ;)

Excelscior
Jul 18th, 2014, 12:45 PM
We must remember, tennis is not a team sport.

So, you really don't need an agent for your tennis related income. It's mostly prize money. So you're not negotiating contracts (and even then, some team sport players do it themselves, and/or give the duty to friends or family members).

Yes, there are some tournaments and arrangements with the WTA you could argue you need an agent for (appearance fees, which tournaments you play through the year, etc.), thus you pay them the 5% overall as they do in team sports to handle this for you. Of course endorsements and other income is another manner.

However, what Cersonek is reportedly getting for her tennis income is highway robbery, as Petra could have repaid him for whatever he allegedly did for her from age 16 onward (mind you, Petra has already repaid him in bundles with income and publicity for his club), and find some else much better for much cheaper. :eek: To make it worse: it's not like he's balancing it with outrageous outside opportunities (or effort), as he was complaining about this recently as if he didn't care, wasn't' trying.

Did not read Forbes. But if it's the Bouchard article after the finals, I couldn't care less. Secondly, most of the writers will have no idea what's Petra's relationship with her mostly Czech and Eastern European related endorsements. However, related to her prize money earnings, I'm sure Petra does fine there. And if Bouchard flops, she'll earn nothing. Jury still out on her (which is another reason these things are written from an American point of view, with out even knowing tennis).

Ironically, it appears when Petra won Wimby 2011, the press (and subsequently endorsers) were well set to make Petra the new tennis Queen. But unfortunately, Petra wasn't ready/didn't want to, thus disappointing many of her fans and the press, so they moved on.

Now they appear cautious (as us), and rightfully so.

We'll see what happens, starting with Stanford?? :angel:

outlier
Jul 18th, 2014, 01:26 PM
Petra needs an English speaking endorsement agent (the more people speaking English on her team, the better; also, there should be more specialists available). Cernosek is a small crooked fish in a big pond; his portfolio consists of various sportsmen and events, yet he's very local. His endorsements are not worthy on the ROI basis + she spends too much time on Cernosek's events. The best thing that can happen is Cernosek going to jail for the alleged frauds.

I think the author of the article suggested by both me and vendulkabendulka has a great deal of understanding.


Ironically, it appears when Petra won Wimby 2011, the press (and subsequently endorsers) were well set to make Petra the new tennis Queen. But unfortunately, Petra wasn't ready/didn't want to, thus disappointing many of her fans and the press, so they moved on.

Now they appear cautious (as us), and rightfully so.

True.

Jimmie48
Jul 25th, 2014, 01:33 PM
By the sounds of Petra's tweets it seems like David Kotyza is getting married tomorrow :)

..not to Petra I hope :hysteric: :lol:

*Jack*
Jul 25th, 2014, 02:02 PM
By the sounds of Petra's tweets it seems like David Kotyza is getting married tomorrow :)

..not to Petra I hope :hysteric: :lol:
Don't worry, he's like her second dad. ;) :lol:

But it looks like this is the true reason why she decided not to play in Stanford, so that Huggy-Bear could attend his honeymoon and wouldn't miss her 1st tournament after Wimby. It's the better solution that if she would go playing there alone, though. :rolleyes: :cool:

outlier
Jul 25th, 2014, 02:11 PM
It's the better solution that if she would go playing there alone, though. :rolleyes: :cool:

Why is that so? I think it's utterly stupid of Kotyza not to think in advance. He should have had that marriage after the Wimbledon as Petra was scheduled to not to do anything for a while anyway.

Jimmie48
Jul 25th, 2014, 03:09 PM
I think it was a win-win situation for both of them. There's no way she would have played all four tournaments in a row anyways.

Excelscior
Jul 25th, 2014, 03:14 PM
Don't worry, he's like her second dad. ;) :lol:

But it looks like this is the true reason why she decided not to play in Stanford, so that Huggy-Bear could attend his honeymoon and wouldn't miss her 1st tournament after Wimby. It's the better solution that if she would go playing there alone, though. :rolleyes: :cool:

Doesn't Petra usually win tournaments with out Huggy Bear present (yes, I realize she may not win some as well)?? :eek: :lol: :eek:

But of course, it would have been inappropriate for Petra to play a tournament in North America, and miss Kotyza's wedding.

Well, we know what this really means!? :eek: Petra won't be firing the soon to be married Huggy Bear anytime soon no matter what (if that could have ever been possibly considered to begin with). :eek: :lol: :eek:

Petra appears to much of a humanitarian (mind you 2nd Daddy issues). :devil:

Rex59
Jul 25th, 2014, 04:13 PM
I think it was a win-win situation for both of them. There's no way she would have played all four tournaments in a row anyways.

I don't see why not, for she played Carlsbad, Toronto, Cincinnati and New Haven last year. Same would've held true this year, if it weren't for David's impending marriage. Too bad, though for fans, for the draw in Stanford this year is highly competitive. Would've loved to have seen her with the Sisters, Vika, Sabine, Sam', Aggie and the rest. Top-notch draw with Petra in the mix, remains so still, but better with the gifted one.

http://www.wtatennis.com/players/player/13403/title/petra-kvitova

Jimmie48
Jul 25th, 2014, 04:31 PM
But that's an insane schedule for a player looking to go deep in NY. Virtually no other Top 10 player plays that much, that's a schedule for a player that dosen't expect to go deep in every tournament..which should be her mindset now.

Rex59
Jul 25th, 2014, 04:46 PM
But that's an insane schedule for a player looking to go deep in NY. Virtually no other Top 10 player plays that much, that's a schedule for a player that dosen't expect to go deep in every tournament..which should be her mindset now.


Uh....no. Not only did Petra as a top-10er play 4 USOS tourneys last year prior to the USO, but so did Aggie, participating in Stanford, Carlsbad, Toronto and Cincinnati. I don't remember whether Cibulkova was a top-10 player last year, but she played "all 5" USOS tourneys. In the past Kim Clijsters did it quite often and didn't harm herself at the USO. So, if a top-10er feels they can compete at all 4 events, then so be it. It's up to them.

M.Pova
Jul 27th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Uh....no. Not only did Petra as a top-10er play 4 USOS tourneys last year prior to the USO, but so did Aggie, participating in Stanford, Carlsbad, Toronto and Cincinnati. I don't remember whether Cibulkova was a top-10 player last year, but she played "all 5" USOS tourneys. In the past Kim Clijsters did it quite often and didn't harm herself at the USO. So, if a top-10er feels they can compete at all 4 events, then so be it. It's up to them.

I agree with Jimmie. I mean, most of the players you mentioned, including Petra last year, were able to play all the events but their results at the US Open were less than stellar. If Petra plans on going deep at the US Open, which she definitely should, then she should not be overpacking her schedule. Because we already saw how she was burnt out in 2012 by the time the US Open came around. So I don't really mind her not playing Stanford, because I expect her to go deep in a few of these events, therefore she should get more than enough match practice from the 3 events she's still scheduled to play.

Excelscior
Jul 27th, 2014, 04:38 PM
I agree with Jimmie. I mean, most of the players you mentioned, including Petra last year, were able to play all the events but their results at the US Open were less than stellar. If Petra plans on going deep at the US Open, which she definitely should, then she should not be overpacking her schedule. Because we already saw how she was burnt out in 2012 by the time the US Open came around. So I don't really mind her not playing Stanford, because I expect her to go deep in a few of these events, therefore she should get more than enough match practice from the 3 events she's still scheduled to play.

Well stated/argued M.Pova, and welcome/thank you for your visit, contribution here!! :)

Jimmie48
Jul 27th, 2014, 06:59 PM
I just think she needs to start thinking like a proper Top 5 player now. Playing select tournaments and making sure you are in tip-top shape for every single one of them, both fitness-wise and mentally.

She has so much talent, she does not need to vulture tournaments. If she plays well at every tournament, a sensible number of them will do.

TennisAddict84
Jul 27th, 2014, 07:14 PM
I just think she needs to start thinking like a proper Top 5 player now. Playing select tournaments and making sure you are in tip-top shape for every single one of them, both fitness-wise and mentally.

She has so much talent, she does not need to vulture tournaments. If she plays well at every tournament, a sensible number of them will do.

yeah completely agree...she should fight like hell to win Cincy and Montreal since they're premiere 5's anyway and then drop NH despite how she feels about the tournament and the director there...she needs to conserve her energy and stamina for her most vulnerable GS on paper

way too premature to even say this...but man, it would really say something if she won USO...winning 2 slams in a season...

Jimmie48
Jul 27th, 2014, 07:20 PM
way too premature to even say this...but man, it would really say something if she won USO...winning 2 slams in a season...

Seriously, even making the SF would be a very good sign of things heading in the right direction.

Excelscior
Jul 27th, 2014, 08:04 PM
yeah completely agree...she should fight like hell to win Cincy and Montreal since they're premiere 5's anyway and then drop NH despite how she feels about the tournament and the director there...she needs to conserve her energy and stamina for her most vulnerable GS on paper

way too premature to even say this...but man, it would really say something if she won USO...winning 2 slams in a season...

On Paper? :confused:

You mean in ACTUALITY (though of course we all know hat you mean? :lol: :devil: :lol:

On Paper, the French and Australian Open should be Petra's most "vulnerable" Slam (though she is of course an all court player when ahem engaged). However (as we know), she's gone farther at the French, Aussie Combo, and more often to boot.

Of course we can make an argument, that US Open should be her 2nd best tournament ("on paper"). However/Of course many European players (for whatever reason) usually take years to acclimate themselves to the North American hardcourts and US Open. Of course, Petra has other well documented issues as well (though you wonder sometimes how much of that is mental, despite the ailments), etc..

As of late, she's done better on the American hardcourts, and even made the US Open QF years ago--in 2009, which is all good. So, with more experience, maturity, and another Wimbledon title under her belt; let's hope for the better, the best from a more hungry and confident Petra!? :angel:

Excelscior
Jul 27th, 2014, 08:39 PM
PS (from previous post)/Idle though while no real, or Petra tennis being played:

Really wish Petra would pick up the phone and call a Martina Navratilova or Pavel Slozil every once in a while for some advice, perspective and guidance (even in an unofficial capacity, if we can't have an official, semi official one).

Nothing against the "Mental Coach". But those type of tennis heavy weights, would best able to help Petra mentally prepare for winning majors (though of course we'll take whatever approach from the "Mental Coach" in the interim). :devil:

I'm not sure if Petra's reputed minimal to no communication (Martina has said this on more than one occasion), has had anything to do with a natural reluctance for Petra to seek help? Or maybe it's the acrimony between the Cersonek, Czech tennis/Politicians group vs the Slozil, Navratilova 'free speech, independent' group? Either way: You're a big girl now Petra. Do the right thing! Don't be controlled, scared off by that Big Head, Pot Bellied, Meglo Maniac [All Everything] Manager of yours!

Note: Slozil once said, he "speaks freely" from Czech tennis (i.e. Cersonek, Czech tennis federation, etc.) when discussing Kvitova's struggles in the recent past (think it was around the same Fed Cup; see below).

That was telling, regarding some rift/beef (though Slozil did say at the time he spoke to Petra in the past, though he didn't give details, intimating how often, when). :tape:

And of course, everyone remembers when Martina Navratilova wasn't initially invited to a recent Fed Cup finals in the Czech Republic (till she went public), over a feud with the Czech tennis hierarchy.

That was even more telling. Talk about lack of class? :eek: :help: :eek:

Nonetheless, good luck in the US, and especially NYC Petra Kvitova! :angel:

And congrats to you Mr. Kotyza (if anyone's reading, relaying the sub forum over there)!!!!! :bounce: :worship: :bounce:

outlier
Jul 27th, 2014, 10:42 PM
I feel that Petra lacks the ambition of being a dominant player who's collecting slam after slam. I'm not sure if this is something a good coach is capable of helping her with, though. Game-wise, she's there, she really has it, which is the saddest thing about it. I'm a bit skeptical about the USO series as she had a lot of errands here and there, so I don't think Petra's trained enough, but who knows.

However/Of course many European players (for whatever reason) usually take years to acclimate themselves to the North American hardcourts and US Open.Maybe it's the water :).

Excelscior
Jul 28th, 2014, 01:37 AM
I feel that Petra lacks the ambition of being a dominant player who's collecting slam after slam. I'm not sure if this is something a good coach is capable of helping her with, though. Game-wise, she's there, she really has it, which is the saddest thing about it. I'm a bit skeptical about the USO series as she had a lot of errands here and there, so I don't think Petra's trained enough, but who knows.

Maybe it's the water :).

This is exactly why she needs a new coach (obviously not the case in Petra's situation), advisor, or new voice to hear from. Problem is Petra's content with her situation (especially after winning Wimbledon one presumes).

However, numerous new coaches and/or advisors have helped previously self admitted under achievers reach their potential. I'll give you two great champions right of the bat: Pete Sampras and Martina Navratilova.

Sampras said he was "lost" after he one his first major and was at a cross roads. He even tried several coaches. However when he found Tim Gullickson (I think) he said everything clicked. All of a sudden he took practice, conditioning, matches and strategy seriously, when he didn't before.

Martina's stories a little more famous. She was a very talented, bit overweight, emotional head case her first several years on the tour. Then Martina hooked up with the right advisors and people, and the rest is history as well. And this is one of the reasons Navratilova has a deep interest in Kvitova (besides being Talented, Czech, Lefthanded and Wimbledon winners). She was in Petra's same shoes. Been there, done that! You can argue, Petra actually was slightly ahead, winning her Wimbledon at 21 years old (it may have taken Martina later), while still having a whole lot to learn.

Remember, Usain Bolt in Track and Field, was a self admitted party boy, underachiever till he met coach Glen Mills. And the rest is history with them. So instead of Bolt dominating from age 22 forward, imagine if he would have done it from age 18-19 forward??

And of course, we don't have to bring up Li Na and Sharapova, with their recent coaching changes and how it brought late majors (to Sharapova after some thought she would never win won againe), and the first and second major to late bloomer Li Na? They didn't stand still, and were constantly seeking the right solution through coaching changes, and eventually it paid off, twice.

Lastly, Azarenka (to keep it local). Remember, she was a head case not too long ago? And guess what? She hooked up with coach Sam Sumich (I know I probably spelled it wrong), and now she's one of the biggest competitors on the tour. The difference is; Azarenka is at or above where she would be in majors with her talent level. If the more talented Kvitova had the proper coaching, advisors or inspiration, she may possess 3-6 already. That's the difference.

The key is; you want the players to practice, play and compete at their best. When they're very talented, it usually means a lot of championships and domination.

So remember, Chrissie Evert was born to be (or at least adapted early) a winner/competitor. Martina was not. Nav's couldn't hold her concentration, and didn't take the sport seriously. Chrissie also kicked her ass early in their carrer. She admittedly didn't know what it took early in career (as Petra doesn't seem to now). But she learned (as Sampras, As Bolt, as numerous others over the years), and became arguably the best tennis player of all time (along with Kicking Chrissie's ass up and down the world, the second half of their careers). Martina has openly discussed her lack of winning attitude early in her career.

I'm sure you knew this stuff (and other examples), and just didn't remember off the top of your head, or made the correlation. Yeah, not everyone is born a winner. Many are taught, inspired or influenced. And Petra seemed easily influenced. She just needs the right voice/s to inspire her full time (as opposed to every once in a while or certain stretches). She's too uneven (unless KVITOVA matures). Otherwise, she will win tournaments and majors in the future for sure. However, it will be mostly off of her talent, and/or what's tailored to her game. What about the tougher challenges? That's when you REALLY need good coaching, and/or inspiration.

You'd be surprised how a different, or additional voice can change someone, their outcomes (especially when the talent is already there).

We'll see (in which ever situation)?

Rex59
Jul 31st, 2014, 08:57 PM
I agree with Jimmie. I mean, most of the players you mentioned, including Petra last year, were able to play all the events but their results at the US Open were less than stellar. If Petra plans on going deep at the US Open, which she definitely should, then she should not be overpacking her schedule. Because we already saw how she was burnt out in 2012 by the time the US Open came around. So I don't really mind her not playing Stanford, because I expect her to go deep in a few of these events, therefore she should get more than enough match practice from the 3 events she's still scheduled to play.

I'm absolutely amazed at people who project their "fears" and "expectations" with exceptions on players as if it's "truth" for them and then suggest to these players what they should do with their playing schedule prior to a Slam event, particularly this USO. For one, the player knows what the USOS is about and the # of events that take place during such, what's at stake for them if they win such (double the prize money at the USO) and that they can accumulate a nice chunk of change during this 50 day period, plus ranking points by participating in these events. I'm sure "Petra", like all the top players, understand this and adjust their schedules, accordingly, just as players have done in the past, contingent upon a number of factors as the series unfolds.

One of those factors is conditioning. If the players believe they're fit, they will commit. Just as Petra did last year in electing to play 4 events, she did the same this year, but preempted such this year due to David's wedding, for Petra, save for injury, keeps her commitments.

Another factor is how deep the player goes in events. Looking at what has just happened to Samantha and Aggie at Stanford, there is absolutely "no" guarantee that Petra was going deep there or that any player will go deep in any event, let alone the USOS. Imo, the only players one can say could have the "expectation" of going deep in successive series of events as the USOS are Serena, Maria and a healthy Vika, including Aggie to a point, for they are the players that have shown "consistency" on the Tour for a stretch and who've shown that they can go deep from tourney-to-tourney. Petra is not one of those players, but is and remains a threat to do so, for she's still somewhat hit or miss by and large, not proficient nor precise in the execution of her game. Her game just came together at Wimbledon, coupled with a very fortuitous draw. The bottom half of the draw was "decidedly and lopsidedly" weak with Li getting bounced early and Venus her only impediment to the final and subsequent title.

Last year Petra had a modest USOS, losing in the 2nd rd. at S.D., reaching the qtrs at Tor., bounced in the 2nd at Cin., finals for N.H., then lost to Riske in the 3rd at the USO, where she erred herself out of the match, eating a bagel in the 2nd. To say that Petra was fatigued as her reason for losing to Riske due to her playing the series (save for New Haven, it wasn't a good series for her), I would differ for Petra can go easily off the rails. She's unofficially known as the "queen of 3 setters" for a very good reason and she derailed herself with her own ineptness in that match, a player Petra should have handled w/o much difficulty.

In comparison, Aggie last year played 4 'series events, reaching the final at Stanford, bounced in the lst at S.D., semis for Tor., w/d in the qts at Cincy, then losing 2 weeks later at the USO to Makarova in the round of 16 via a tight score of 6-4, 6-4. Aggie had a very good series ere losing to a decent player in Makarova at the USO, who also played 4 'series events. Aggie is clearly physically lighter than Petra, played the same # of events, and went further at the USO. Why? "Competition", Aggie just lost via such to a decent player at the Slam, not because she played too many events leading up to Flushing Meadows.

Adjustment factor....if Petra had played Stanford, reached the semis or final there, plus the same result in Montreal and Cincy, she wasn't going to play New Haven in the least, although she likes the environmentally-friendly campus green at Yale. And why would she? She'd have enough match play, plus success to where playing New Haven was irrelevant, unlike last year where her 'series performance wasn't very good up to that point. Players commit to play 4 or 5 events during the USOS for reasons unique to them, ranking points and prize money are key factors, but they remain fluid to participation at these events contingent on successes during such and how their bodies feel with withdrawal always an option. It has no bearing on subsequent USO performance where one doesn't play everyday anyway.

Off-topic:

Wished Petra had played Stanford for not only competition's sake, for it would've balanced off a terribly lopsided draw in a contracted but top-notch field for this event, but I would've gotten a clue about Petra's practice habits, for I'm not a fan of David's coaching, seeing that Petra remains so hit and miss and doesn't have the results foreseen for her after her breakout 2011 year. Stanford has stationary cameras on their courts, including the stadium ct. that are on from sunup to sundown. I've been able to witness Venus, Serena, Sam', Sabine, Ana I., Petra Martic and others practice. Noticed that all the players have male hitting partners, Venus has 3 for one (but 2 are local, I think, for David her regular hitting partner is in a walking boot), Serena just one, Sabine 2., etc. Now, I understand why Petra Martic is not performing well. Her hitting partner is her coach, who is a lousy tennis player. :lol: Their exchanges were just awful with him being the culprit. She couldn't develop any pace, timing and placement for her ground game, for he was woefully inept in returns. She needs a coaching change and a true tennis player as a hitting partner, but due to a thin purse, I guess she can't afford to do better. :sad:

Re Petra K., I've always wondered whether her hitting partner is male and how she practices, hits and returns with him, and what other things she works on during such. If not, then who is her practice partner? If it's David and he can't play tennis like Petra M.'s coach, then one can understand the inconsistency from Petra, the wild returns and 2nd serve returns landing near the fence in some moments. Missed opportunity to gain an understanding about my girl here......

honzaneumannn
Jul 31st, 2014, 11:01 PM
I'm absolutely amazed at people who project their "fears" and "expectations" with exceptions on players as if it's "truth" for them and then suggest to these players what they should do with their playing schedule prior to a Slam event, particularly this USO. For one, the player knows what the USOS is about and the # of events that take place during such, what's at stake for them if they win such (double the prize money at the USO) and that they can accumulate a nice chunk of change during this 50 day period, plus ranking points by participating in these events. I'm sure "Petra", like all the top players, understand this and adjust their schedules, accordingly, just as players have done in the past, contingent upon a number of factors as the series unfolds.

One of those factors is conditioning. If the players believe they're fit, they will commit. Just as Petra did last year in electing to play 4 events, she did the same this year, but preempted such this year due to David's wedding, for Petra, save for injury, keeps her commitments.

Another factor is how deep the player goes in events. Looking at what has just happened to Samantha and Aggie at Stanford, there is absolutely "no" guarantee that Petra was going deep there or that any player will go deep in any event, let alone the USOS. Imo, the only players one can say could have the "expectation" of going deep in successive series of events as the USOS are Serena, Maria and a healthy Vika, including Aggie to a point, for they are the players that have shown "consistency" on the Tour for a stretch and who've shown that they can go deep from tourney-to-tourney. Petra is not one of those players, but is and remains a threat to do so, for she's still somewhat hit or miss by and large, not proficient nor precise in the execution of her game. Her game just came together at Wimbledon, coupled with a very fortuitous draw. The bottom half of the draw was "decidedly and lopsidedly" weak with Li getting bounced early and Venus her only impediment to the final and subsequent title.

Last year Petra had a modest USOS, losing in the 2nd rd. at S.D., reaching the qtrs at Tor., bounced in the 2nd at Cin., finals for N.H., then lost to Riske in the 3rd at the USO, where she erred herself out of the match, eating a bagel in the 2nd. To say that Petra was fatigued as her reason for losing to Riske due to her playing the series (save for New Haven, it wasn't a good series for her), I would differ for Petra can go easily off the rails. She's unofficially known as the "queen of 3 setters" for a very good reason and she derailed herself with her own ineptness in that match, a player Petra should have handled w/o much difficulty.

In comparison, Aggie last year played 4 'series events, reaching the final at Stanford, bounced in the lst at S.D., semis for Tor., w/d in the qts at Cincy, then losing 2 weeks later at the USO to Makarova in the round of 16 via a tight score of 6-4, 6-4. Aggie had a very good series ere losing to a decent player in Makarova at the USO, who also played 4 'series events. Aggie is clearly physically lighter than Petra, played the same # of events, and went further at the USO. Why? "Competition", Aggie just lost via such to a decent player at the Slam, not because she played too many events leading up to Flushing Meadows.

Adjustment factor....if Petra had played Stanford, reached the semis or final there, plus the same result in Montreal and Cincy, she wasn't going to play New Haven in the least, although she likes the environmentally-friendly campus green at Yale. And why would she? She'd have enough match play, plus success to where playing New Haven was irrelevant, unlike last year where her 'series performance wasn't very good up to that point. Players commit to play 4 or 5 events during the USOS for reasons unique to them, ranking points and prize money are key factors, but they remain fluid to participation at these events contingent on successes during such and how their bodies feel with withdrawal always an option. It has no bearing on subsequent USO performance where one doesn't play everyday anyway.

Off-topic:

Wished Petra had played Stanford for not only competition's sake, for it would've balanced off a terribly lopsided draw in a contracted but top-notch field for this event, but I would've gotten a clue about Petra's practice habits, for I'm not a fan of David's coaching, seeing that Petra remains so hit and miss and doesn't have the results foreseen for her after her breakout 2011 year. Stanford has stationary cameras on their courts, including the stadium ct. that are on from sunup to sundown. I've been able to witness Venus, Serena, Sam', Sabine, Ana I., Petra Martic and others practice. Noticed that all the players have male hitting partners, Venus has 3 for one (but 2 are local, I think, for David her regular hitting partner is in a walking boot), Serena just one, Sabine 2., etc. Now, I understand why Petra Martic is not performing well. Her hitting partner is her coach, who is a lousy tennis player. :lol: Their exchanges were just awful with him being the culprit. She couldn't develop any pace, timing and placement for her ground game, for he was woefully inept in returns. She needs a coaching change and a true tennis player as a hitting partner, but due to a thin purse, I guess she can't afford to do better. :sad:

Re Petra K., I've always wondered whether her hitting partner is male and how she practices, hits and returns with him, and what other things she works on during such. If not, then who is her practice partner? If it's David and he can't play tennis like Petra M.'s coach, then one can understand the inconsistency from Petra, the wild returns and 2nd serve returns landing near the fence in some moments. Missed opportunity to gain an understanding about my girl here......
David is not her hitting partner. What I know, it varies a bit, mostly younger male players from Prostejov, which isnt that bad...

steni
Jul 31st, 2014, 11:41 PM
^ Doesnt she hits with other players during tournaments? But, I read here that somebody actually saw her hitting with Kotyza and he was awful.

Excelscior
Aug 1st, 2014, 02:16 AM
^ Doesnt she hits with other players during tournaments? But, I read here that somebody actually saw her hitting with Kotyza and he was awful.

Petra does not have a full time male hitting partner.

That's been a complaint here for years.

In 2011, Adam (her boyfriend at the time) was her hitting partner when they were at mutual tournaments. That's the closest she ever came to one.

Occasionally, Petra hits with Prostojev boys (not including Adam, who was also a Protojev boy himself). :devil:

She hit with Stephanek occasionally as well, during their ahem situation.

And during big tournaments, she may hit with a Li Na, if/when she gets a chance.

Nonetheless, the situation is quite embarrassing (though not well publicized). Petra has never had a full time male hitting partner during and since 2011. As Rex59 noted, this is the complete opposite, of most other top flight players.

Now, to Rex 59 post: It's obvious, Petra's problems during the year, were more than just a hitting partner (aren't they always). There been recent articles from what I understand (though I did not read any of them). So I'm not going to lay this year on the hitting partners situation (though I'm sure it didn't help). Nonetheless, I do agree, that's it's been a reason for Petra's inconsistency [over the years], particularly during early rounds.

To my knowledge (or at least as far as we can see) Mr. Cersonek supplies Petra everybody, including hitting partners. And personally, I don't think Petra wants the extra work any way (as far as what we could gauge from David's comments from several years ago, regarding Petra and monotony, redundancy).You can't make this up.

SMH

Excelscior
Aug 1st, 2014, 02:32 PM
Don't know what happened to REX59's post yesterday, and my response? :confused: But I don't see them. :eek:

Nonetheless, I said, Petra's never had a full time male hitting partners.

It's been a complaint here, at this forum for years.

The closest she ever came was her then boyfriend Adam in 2011. They would hit together during mutual tournaments they both attended (since he was a then rising junior), and some time together in the Czech Republic. Ironically, that was Petra's best year. :eek:

Petra also occasionally hit with the Prostojev boys when in the Czech Republic (not including Adam, who was a Prostojev boy himself), and towards the end of the year in 2012. :devil:

I'm assuming, she also hit sporadically with Radek--when she could at mutual events the past two seasons?

Of course, Petra has hit with Li Na when she's gotten the chance/can at big, dual tournaments such as majors. This is both sporadic, and hit and miss as the others.

Either way, It's kinda embarrassing, that a big time player such as Petra, has no full time male hitting partner (especially when the competition does).

As far as we can ascertain, Cersonek provides Petra with all her people. Of course, Petra should have the cajones, and/or the wallet to have her own (regardless of what Cersonek wants to hire/pay for). However, based off Kotyza's comments in the past, regarding Petra and redundant, monotonous activity (along with the fact she's never had one), it doesn't appear Petra really wants one either.

To Rex59's contention: Obviously, Petra's problems the past several years, have been more than just hitting partners (isn't it always). Apparently, there been articles on some possible reasons already, which I haven't read myself. I'm sure many of us, have our own ideas.

Historically, Petra has been mildly to notoriously vulnerable in early rounds. One would assume it's had something to do with her lack of a male hitting partners, granted there were no other underlying issues. Maybe, it would have helped her in some other matches this year as well? Who knows/My two cents!?

Saying all that: Let's hope for an excellent summer season, and a great US Open (especially if you read Kotyza's recent article/translation somewhere in this subforum)!

I hope that helped answer your question (Steni, and Rex 59).

Power Shot
Aug 1st, 2014, 04:30 PM
It's funny: Petra wins Wimbledon and Kotzya gets married(congratulations to him and his bride, btw) and look at this thread :lol: Poor guy can't catch a break :lol:

If I recall correctly, didn't Petra come close to sweeping Canada, Cincinnati and New Haven in 2012, I believe? Proof she can pull it off. Also, wasn't that the year she lost to Bartoli at the Open on the Grandstand? I think that was R4. Shows she may not be overplaying her schedule.

honzaneumannn
Aug 1st, 2014, 07:43 PM
^ Doesnt she hits with other players during tournaments? But, I read here that somebody actually saw her hitting with Kotyza and he was awful.
It is really not hitting. Kotyza (unlike Mr. Navratil and others) is joke of a tennis player. But he is always able to prepare some solid strategy which is much more important for Petra. As said before, according to my info, she usually hits with Prostejovs younger male players which is similar to solid women...

Excelscior
Aug 2nd, 2014, 01:11 AM
It's funny: Petra wins Wimbledon and Kotzya gets married(congratulations to him and his bride, btw) and look at this thread :lol: Poor guy can't catch a break :lol:

If I recall correctly, didn't Petra come close to sweeping Canada, Cincinnati and New Haven in 2012, I believe? Proof she can pull it off. Also, wasn't that the year she lost to Bartoli at the Open on the Grandstand? I think that was R4. Shows she may not be overplaying her schedule.

Kotyza, actually made sense in that translation (regarding Petra's tournament schedule leading up to the US Open). :eek:

We'll see??

Petronius
Oct 21st, 2014, 08:44 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0eiryOIUAAX8Xa.jpg

In loving memory of the 2014 YEC in Singapore, where Petra went 0-3 in her group, losing all matches in straight sets.

:oh:

steni
Oct 21st, 2014, 08:53 PM
Where is the new fitness guy? I havent seem pics of him at all. At moments like this I think firing Ivanko was a mistake.

Potapovushina
Oct 21st, 2014, 08:56 PM
This thread :crying2:

*Jack*
Oct 21st, 2014, 09:08 PM
Where is the new fitness guy? I havent seem pics of him at all. At moments like this I think firing Ivanko was a mistake.
He is probably fired because he wanted her to work harder. :rolleyes: :o

P.S.: Op, please, rename the thread to "PETRA bashing thread".

Potapovushina
Oct 21st, 2014, 09:21 PM
P.S.: Op, please, rename the thread to "PETRA bashing thread".

:tears:

Deestruction
Oct 22nd, 2014, 04:06 AM
Heres my bashing. You stupid dumbass, pack your shit and leave singapore, you retard fuck. :mad::angel:

saarsngg
Oct 22nd, 2014, 05:18 AM
Was at the WTA Finals the last couple of days, and managed to watch the practice sessions of Petra, Serena, Maria, Simona and Aga. I have to say that Petra's practices were very low in intensity compared to everyone else's. Everyone else had a male hitting partner (some even had 2!) whom either they or their coach demanded push them harder over the course of the practice session. Petra, meanwhile, was just satisfied with Kotyza slowly feeding her a bunch of low-paced balls. It's this lack of urgency during practice that explains why her form was so poor against Radwanska.

*Jack*
Oct 22nd, 2014, 05:31 AM
Was at the WTA Finals the last couple of days, and managed to watch the practice sessions of Petra, Serena, Maria, Simona and Aga. I have to say that Petra's practices were very low in intensity compared to everyone else's. Everyone else had a male hitting partner (some even had 2!) whom either they or their coach demanded push them harder over the course of the practice session. Petra, meanwhile, was just satisfied with Kotyza slowly feeding her a bunch of low-paced balls. It's this lack of urgency during practice that explains why her form was so poor against Radwanska.
This is not just about Wanska, from what you say it looks like a routine thing for her/them. :help: I just wonder how is it possible than so few commentators talk about this aspect of Petra's game/attitude. :rolleyes:

steni
Oct 22nd, 2014, 01:30 PM
Was at the WTA Finals the last couple of days, and managed to watch the practice sessions of Petra, Serena, Maria, Simona and Aga. I have to say that Petra's practices were very low in intensity compared to everyone else's. Everyone else had a male hitting partner (some even had 2!) whom either they or their coach demanded push them harder over the course of the practice session. Petra, meanwhile, was just satisfied with Kotyza slowly feeding her a bunch of low-paced balls. It's this lack of urgency during practice that explains why her form was so poor against Radwanska.

Wow! Very dissapointing! Did she look sick, injured or tired to you?

honzaneumannn
Oct 22nd, 2014, 01:47 PM
Wow! Very dissapointing! Did she look sick, injured or tired to you?
As usually, Petra combines the times of poor stamina (this YEC) with the great ones (Asia, Wimby). And she is a bit lazy quite satisfied with the fact she will be (most likely) among the TOP4 seeded in AO this year + nothing to defend up until the Wimbledon. Why should she more care? Its typical Petra.

If this is sufficient enough to get 2 Wimbys, I will not claim her for that. She is a lazy dog, honestly said. But I can live with it.

steni
Oct 22nd, 2014, 01:59 PM
As usually, Petra combines the times of poor stamina (this YEC) with the great ones (Asia, Wimby). And she is a bit lazy quite satisfied with the fact she will be (most likely) among the TOP4 seeded in AO this year + nothing to defend up until the Wimbledon. Why should she more care? Its typical Petra.

If this is sufficient enough to get 2 Wimbys, I will not claim her for that. She is a lazy dog, honestly said. But I can live with it.

What her dad thinks about this lazy attitude?

saarsngg
Oct 22nd, 2014, 02:03 PM
Wow! Very dissapointing! Did she look sick, injured or tired to you?

She looked unhappy on Friday, but I wasn't sure why. On Saturday she looked fine.

Excelscior
Oct 24th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Was at the WTA Finals the last couple of days, and managed to watch the practice sessions of Petra, Serena, Maria, Simona and Aga. I have to say that Petra's practices were very low in intensity compared to everyone else's. Everyone else had a male hitting partner (some even had 2!) whom either they or their coach demanded push them harder over the course of the practice session. Petra, meanwhile, was just satisfied with Kotyza slowly feeding her a bunch of low-paced balls. It's this lack of urgency during practice that explains why her form was so poor against Radwanska.

Just saw this.

Unfortunately, nothing new from Petra and her team.

This is one of the reasons speculated why she/her results can be so up and down, tournament to tournament, especially early in them. They're various reasons for this repeated behaviour. However, we'll leave it at that. :eek:

steni
Oct 24th, 2014, 02:42 PM
Does she still have a fitness coach? :lol:

This is just a fantasy, I know It wont never happen but who could be a good coach for Petra. Lendl or Navratilova? can she afford them tho? :lol:

pov
Oct 24th, 2014, 02:46 PM
Just saw this.

Unfortunately, nothing new from Petra and her team.


Not so: Kvitova said she was feeling burnt out during her first-round loss to Radwanska, so took an unusual approach to freshen up for Thursday's match.

''When I lost against Aga ... I was so tired and sick of the tennis for a moment,'' Kvitova said. ''So I didn't practice today at all and I just really relaxed and cleaned my mind a little bit.''

Excelscior
Oct 24th, 2014, 02:50 PM
Not so:

Thanks

But was more so speaking about the lack of a Male hitting partner, simulating game conditions; thus keeping various aspects of her game sharp (particularly ROS, footwork and ground strokes).

Jimmie48
Oct 24th, 2014, 04:09 PM
Just saw this.

Unfortunately, nothing new from Petra and her team.

This is one of the reasons speculated why she/her results can be so up and down, tournament to tournament, especially early in them. They're various reasons for this repeated behaviour. However, we'll leave it at that. :eek:

I don't believe in easy, formulaic solutions. "If she had done xyz, it would have helped.."

Bouchard & Sharapova had male hitting partners and it didn't help them one bit, everybody has their own process. Copying others is not what will help her.

on patrol
Oct 24th, 2014, 04:10 PM
Get a full-time hitting partner, an adult. Seeing Kotyza by the net hitting those slow-ass, high-bouncing balls, pretending to be launching projectiles and simulating something real or the way he serves and hits from the baseline worries me a lot. Petra please. You cannot better your ROS with Kotyza, he serves jack. Or how can he simulate a pusher/grinder? He's fat and slow.

*Jack*
Oct 24th, 2014, 04:42 PM
I don't believe in easy, formulaic solutions. "If she had done xyz, it would have helped.."

Bouchard & Sharapova had male hitting partners and it didn't help them one bit, everybody has their own process. Copying others is not what will help her.
Agreed, there are no easy and quick solutions, :cool: but I think Ex was thinking (talking) about the whole season and her training process overall. It's pretty obvious that a male hitting partner wouldn't help raise her performance during such a short time. ;)

Get a full-time hitting partner, an adult. Seeing Kotyza by the net hitting those slow-ass, high-bouncing balls, pretending to be launching projectiles and simulating something real or the way he serves and hits from the baseline worries me a lot. Petra please. You cannot better your ROS with Kotyza, he serves jack. Or how can he simulate a pusher/grinder? He's fat and slow.
That is not true, I swear! :bounce: :lol:

vendulkabendulka
Oct 24th, 2014, 06:36 PM
This is just a fantasy, I know It wont never happen but who could be a good coach for Petra. Lendl or Navratilova? can she afford them tho? :lol:
None of them. Because they would both ask her to work hard and she doesn't feel like doing something like that at all.

*Jack*
Oct 24th, 2014, 07:49 PM
Lendl is too busy and Navratilova is similar case, they both say they would like to train but they don't. I think none of them would like to be the head coach for any player at the moment. :shrug:

None of them. Because they would both ask her to work hard and she doesn't feel like doing something like that at all.
I don't think so. :rolleyes: Maybe, she subconsciously likes coaches that doesn't require absolute hard work from her, but I doubt she's that lazy that she wouldn't hire anybody who wants her to work hard. :cool:
Both Kotyza and her father declared that she has never refused to practice. It's probably just the next step in practice and pre-season training that she either doesn't want to do or thinks she doesn't need it (yet) - by this I mean for example the male hitting partner or collaboration with many different specialist not only from CZE or Prostejov. ;)

Petronius
Oct 24th, 2014, 08:08 PM
Get a full-time hitting partner, an adult. Seeing Kotyza by the net hitting those slow-ass, high-bouncing balls, pretending to be launching projectiles and simulating something real or the way he serves and hits from the baseline worries me a lot. Petra please. You cannot better your ROS with Kotyza, he serves jack. Or how can he simulate a pusher/grinder? He's fat and slow.

I presume they wouldn't let any outsider into the team. They want to keep that friendly, family-circle atmosphere and rely on their current small team. The company called 'Petra Kvitova' is still a pretty successful business, having already grossed $15m+ in prize money (let alone potential endorsement deals) with a prospect of adding $20-30m more in the following years.

As someone said she occasionally hits with some young male players at her home club and they probably consider this enough and currently wouldn't fly any such hitting partner along with her to tournaments around the world. This may change though.

honzaneumannn
Oct 24th, 2014, 08:12 PM
I don't believe in easy, formulaic solutions. "If she had done xyz, it would have helped.."

Bouchard & Sharapova had male hitting partners and it didn't help them one bit, everybody has their own process. Copying others is not what will help her.
You are right. Petra is unique in that regard, that she can either be extremely good (Sharpie match YEC), or extremely poor (Aga YEC). And I really dont think, she will ever change dramatically in this regard in future: its the kind of her nature. Being Petra means either Wimby trophies, or poor losses in 1st-2nd rounds against nobodies. Unlike the quite consistent Aga, Petra can always have some really good days full of excellence, when she can win something really big which might evoke an impression, she will and can do it in every tournament.

In this season, I got a feeling, that she really struggled in her matches against defenders/retrievers who force Petra playing next extra balls and thus making an UE (thanks god, there are not so many in WTA, but those Svitolina, Krunic, Aga + Woz matches were really poor).

Unlike that, she was really great against attacking players (see her Wimby run - with the only exception of Barbora, who made her a lot of problems). Kotyza should prepare her better against this kind of players. This has really been an issue this year.

The good thing is, that there will always be some tournaments, where running and pushing does not help a lot (Wimby, Wuhan, Dubai, Stanford, Eastbourne). Petra also showed, she is not that bad on clay (see her Madrid run and a close loss to Halep, or her match against clay-goat Svetlana) which is a positive sign too.

Summary: for me, this season was absolutely perfect, and any losses of Petra in 2014 cannot change anything on that opinion.

Kotyza is the best option for her, she likes him as a person (and a "substitute dad" on their joint journies) so why to change it. Any coach changes (maybe outside Li-Na) didnt bring anything special to the players in this respective year, if not brought even worse results. If Petra wants it, nobody can stop her. If she doesnt, its her matter and we really cant affect it anyhow (especially Vendulkabendulka not...ha, ha). So why to care so much? Too much analyses cant help Petra in any aspect, since as said before, she is unique (for better or worse) and will hardly ever change. And I like her the way she is.

TennisAddict84
Oct 24th, 2014, 08:15 PM
Lendl is too busy and Navratilova is similar case, they both say they would like to train but they don't. I think none of them would like to be the head coach for any player at the moment. :shrug:


I don't think so. :rolleyes: Maybe, she subconsciously likes coaches that doesn't require absolute hard work from her, but I doubt she's that lazy that she wouldn't hire anybody who wants her to work hard. :cool:
Both Kotyza and her father declared that she has never refused to practice. It's probably just the next step in practice and pre-season training that she either doesn't want to do or thinks she doesn't need it (yet) - by this I mean for example the male hitting partner or collaboration with many different specialist not only from CZE or Prostejov. ;)

completely agree w/ this...just finished the 1st set of the match against woz...and petra just looked burnt out...wasn't as flat as the match against Aga...but i think she had a mental letdown after being so amped up and focused in the Sharapova match

in that 1st set...petra was pretty much leading in every game...but then just couldn't string together enough good points to win the actual game

physically...everything seemed fine, but i think Petra has been mentally out of it since winning in Wuhan...

Caroline didn't really do anything particularly special...and I think Petra knows that she mentally gave her the match

As for hiring a new coach or team members...i'm actually not sure if that would do anything...I think Petra prefers to work w/ people like Kotyza who are laid back and would get turned off by people who are too intense or disciplinarian

I also have seen improvements in Petra's game that we talked about on the sub-forum--most notably her defensive shots and chip/slice ROS

it really is just mental w/ Petra and how much she wants it...the losses at this YEC reinforces that when Petra is physically healthy...80% of her losses are really just mental and the lack of intensity, focus, energy, and motivation

honzaneumannn
Oct 24th, 2014, 08:20 PM
completely agree w/ this...just finished the 1st set of the match against woz...and petra just looked burnt out...wasn't as flat as the match against Aga...but i think she had a mental letdown after being so amped up and focused in the Sharapova match

in that 1st set...petra was pretty much leading in every game...but then just couldn't string together enough good points to win the actual game

physically...everything seemed fine, but i think Petra has been mentally out of it since winning in Wuhan...

Caroline didn't really do anything particularly special...and I think Petra knows that she mentally gave her the match
Mentality has always been an issue in womens tennis and Petra is no exception, tough she surely belongs to the better ones, as her record in finals may indicate. Who would expect Maria choking so much today while knowing she must win in 2? Who would expect Serena to lose to Halep that horrible way? Petra is no robot: sometimes she has her day, sometimes has not.

TennisAddict84
Oct 24th, 2014, 08:34 PM
Mentality has always been an issue in womens tennis and Petra is no exception, tough she surely belongs to the better ones, as her record in finals may indicate. Who would expect Maria choking so much today while knowing she must win in 2? Who would expect Serena to lose to Halep that horrible way? Petra is no robot: sometimes she has her day, sometimes has not.

when i talk about Petra's mentality in particular...i don't mean that she's a choker...Petra's never been a choker...what she lacks that Serena and Maria have for the most party is the mental endurance...but it might just be a personality thing and her nature...i'm not sure if she has it in her to mentally hang tough and give her best from tournament to tournament in a season

*Jack*
Oct 24th, 2014, 09:44 PM
[/B]

when i talk about Petra's mentality in particular...i don't mean that she's a choker...Petra's never been a choker...what she lacks that Serena and Maria have for the most party is the mental endurance...but it might just be a personality thing and her nature...i'm not sure if she has it in her to mentally hang tough and give her best from tournament to tournament in a season
Well, I think Petra is pretty tough, although she struggles with the self-accumulated pressure sometimes. But she lacks motivation and hunger for the day-to-day / week-to-week hunt for the no. 1 status and tournament titles. :cool:

I think there is also the effect I know from economy classes. :o Successes that she's having are enough for her or close to what she wants to (or thinks she can) achieve as a player during regular season, so she doesn't want to and won't work harder. It's the same with the maximum amount of working hours - people are willing to work for only a certain amount of hours and don't want to work more even if it would mean more money.

Jimmie48
Oct 24th, 2014, 09:51 PM
The "problem" (I don't see it as one at all really) is that Petra isn't as much driven by two factors that drive most other players: Fame and money.

She isn't interested in being more famous at all (quite the opposite) so that does not motivate her. And while I'm sure she dosen't mind the millions pouring in (who would...) and have a nice life, she dosen't seem to have particularly expensive lifestyle and probably has more than enough to live her life the way she wants to.

So in the end, it comes down to pride and her place in the tennis world and I get the feeling that she's pretty cool with her status as it is. I mean, why wouldn't she, she has won Wimbledon twice and a very real chance to add to that in the future.

aknox
Oct 24th, 2014, 10:15 PM
Wimbledon Champion! :bounce: It's been a good year. But Petra, you can go to even greater heights! :sobbing:

*Jack*
Oct 24th, 2014, 10:22 PM
The "problem" (I don't see it as one at all really) is that Petra isn't as much driven by two factors that drive most other players: Fame and money.

She isn't interested in being more famous at all (quite the opposite) so that does not motivate her. And while I'm sure she dosen't mind the millions pouring in (who would...) and have a nice life, she dosen't seem to have particularly expensive lifestyle and probably has more than enough to live her life the way she wants to.

So in the end, it comes down to pride and her place in the tennis world and I get the feeling that she's pretty cool with her status as it is. I mean, why wouldn't she, she has won Wimbledon twice and a very real chance to add to that in the future.
Good post. :worship: I often enjoy your point of view, Jimmie. :wavey:

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 04:33 AM
The "problem" (I don't see it as one at all really) is that Petra isn't as much driven by two factors that drive most other players: Fame and money.

She isn't interested in being more famous at all (quite the opposite) so that does not motivate her. And while I'm sure she dosen't mind the millions pouring in (who would...) and have a nice life, she dosen't seem to have particularly expensive lifestyle and probably has more than enough to live her life the way she wants to.

So in the end, it comes down to pride and her place in the tennis world and I get the feeling that she's pretty cool with her status as it is. I mean, why wouldn't she, she has won Wimbledon twice and a very real chance to add to that in the future.

Truly great, driven champions are driven by neither fame nor money. They're driven by legacy, history and posterity through winning. So someone could covet neither of the two, and still want to win, dominate, and break records.

Of course this is not Petra at the moment. However, I had to make this note, because you make it sound so superficial, and one size fits all. And that's just not the case.

It's only natural, once a person attains a certain level of success in their profession, they get used to making a certain amount of money, and focus more on points, career high ranking, etc., as the case with tennis players. The money usually comes early in a sport like tennis for a top player. The question is; what do you do after, if you have any ambition? Most people who have ambition, will usually get past such trivial pursuits as Fame and Money once acquired or used to it. It's things, like their vision, impact, achievements, life, or landscape changing events, and/or legacy which they try to improve on (speaking about various professions and industries, not just tennis).

Petra's self explanatory. So no need to rehash her current mentality in regards to this. We most likely know she doesn't--for example--have a list, stating she wants to win 8-10 Wimbledon's, or something like that.

FWIW: People/Influences/Maturity, etc., can change peoples outlook and demeanor on life as well. So please don't talk, as if Peoples personalities are etched in stone; stay the same, and never change, especially with athletes. You have a habit of doing that. Almost as if, you wish things to be a certain way; have an agenda?.. This is why we're human beings. Most of us continually grow and develop. We don't stay exactly the same.

TennisAddict84
Oct 25th, 2014, 05:17 AM
Truly great, driven champions are driven by neither fame nor money. They're driven by legacy, history and posterity through winning. So someone could covet neither of the two, and still want to win, dominate, and break records.

Of course this is not Petra at the moment. However, I had to make this note, because you make it sound so superficial, and one size fits all. And that's just not the case.

It's only natural, once a person attains a certain level of success in their profession, they get used to making a certain amount of money, and focus more on points, career high ranking, etc., as the case with tennis players. The money usually comes early in a sport like tennis for a top player. The question is; what do you do after, if you have any ambition? Most people who have ambition, will usually get past such trivial pursuits as Fame and Money once acquired or used to it. It's things, like their vision, impact, achievements, life, or landscape changing events, and/or legacy which they try to improve on (speaking about various professions and industries, not just tennis).

Petra's self explanatory. So no need to rehash her current mentality in regards to this. We most likely know she doesn't--for example--have a list, stating she wants to win 8-10 Wimbledon's, or something like that.

FWIW: People/Influences/Maturity, etc., can change peoples outlook and demeanor on life as well. So please don't talk, as if Peoples personalities are etched in stone; stay the same, and never change, especially with athletes. You have a habit of doing that. Almost as if, you wish things to be a certain way; have an agenda?.. This is why we're human beings. Most of us continually grow and develop. We don't stay exactly the same.

well stated :worship:

Jimmie48
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:06 AM
FWIW: People/Influences/Maturity, etc., can change peoples outlook and demeanor on life as well. So please don't talk, as if Peoples personalities are etched in stone; stay the same, and never change, especially with athletes. You have a habit of doing that. Almost as if, you wish things to be a certain way; have an agenda?.. This is why we're human beings. Most of us continually grow and develop. We don't stay exactly the same.

No, the difference between you and me is that you constantly want her to change and want her to be something else while I can appreciate her for what she is now..and I don't need hope that she might change to something I see in her in the future :)

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:06 AM
I don't believe in easy, formulaic solutions. "If she had done xyz, it would have helped.."

Bouchard & Sharapova had male hitting partners and it didn't help them one bit, everybody has their own process. Copying others is not what will help her.

SMH

Bouchard is a poor example. She's a new player, who's coming into her own, getting adjusted to the new fame, expectations and competition. Conversely; Petra's a veteran now who should have eliminated such things. So it's not a good comparison on your part. At least Bouchard, beats who she should beat in the majors. Can't say the same for Petra this year. "Angie's", obviously got "Slam" Stevens disease, and doesn't take regular tournaments seriously. As far as the YEC: Bouchard's just not that good. And it's expected she'd have her clock cleaned by the "superior" competition.

Masha on a whole has been more consistent than Petra the past few years. Just because you have a hitting partner, doesn't mean you're never going to to get knocked out early of tournaments. Come on now. That's silly. Obviously, Masha has other things going on right now/the past several months, as Bouchard and Vika. That's the key take away, caveat.

Kotyza, had already said, 'Petra doesn't have a great attention span', so he tries to 'employ fun regimens', etc., with her. Ironically, when Adam--her boyfriend, was her part time hitting partner, she had her best year and most consistency. :lol:

Nothing is written in stone. Problem is: Petra and her team, HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED (as long as I followed her) to employ a full time male hitting partner. EVER! And that is just criminal, when you're speaking about the level of professionalism and things a team tries or employs to help their player.

So no one can argue, when you compare Petra's team to other, even top 20, 30 players (mind you top 5, top 10) that they're not lacking in certain prerequisite areas. That is the key take away. AT LEAST TRY, before you come up with the answer (such as yourself). But she never has. Petra's just not the hardest worker, most dedicated player, seeking new ideas or regimens. Ironically, male hitting partners, are pretty standard fare with most top players. And almost all of them, are more consistent in early tournaments than Petra.

Jimmie48
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:08 AM
Nothing is written in stone. Problem is: Petra and her team, HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED (as long as I followed her) to employ a full time male hitting partner. EVER!

Since they aren't completely stupid, there must be a reason behind this. Once again, it is a matter of simply respecting her decisions, even if you don't agree with them :)

She seemingly does not want to have a male hitting partner, end of story.

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:09 AM
No, the difference between you and me is that you constantly want her to change and want her to be something else while I can appreciate her for what she is now..and I don't need hope that she might change to something I see in her in the future :)

Nothing else to say .

Move now please.

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:38 AM
Since they aren't completely stupid, there must be a reason behind this. Once again, it is a matter of simply respecting her decisions, even if you don't agree with them :)

She seemingly does not want to have a male hitting partner, end of story.

Now you sound like a provocateur, trying to prolong an argument. What else needs to be said?

Huh?

No one is saying, it's a panacea. This is a player website, subforum for gods sake. What you like us to do, between matches and after poor losses; say nothing? I'm sure the TF owners would love that one. :unsure:

All we're saying is; try it; legitimately? It's not like Petra and her team, haven't given us other examples in the past (which I'm sure you're unaware), of being the Keystone Cops Of The Top 10--when it comes to professionalism and activity. Unfortunately, they have; numerous times. :lol: :unsure: :lol:

It's obvious, Petra doesn't have a full time Male hitting Partner, CAUSE SHE DOESN'T WANT TO, and/or her Czech "One Stop Shopping-Size Fits All" Management doesn't want to pay for (as silly as that sounds), or can't provide one. So I agree with you on that. However, that doesn't make it acceptable as a reason, THAT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED IT BEFORE! That is the silly part (by both you and them). I repeat; they haven't even tried it before!

By your measure/contention; they should get rid of other members of her team (trainers, fitness guys, racket stringers at tournaments, etc.), because other players who have them lost early in tournaments as well!? Hell, why not get rid of practices all together, since every one else that does them, loses to. SMH/LOL :help:

What happened to professionalism, problem solving, and continually seeking improvements and solutions? :scratch:

Its' only a suggestion, idea (based off of evidence, and Petra's teams past/other foibles). So they don't get the benefit of the doubt here--as you're giving them, especially when Petra has the same or worst consistency issues--not having tried it--3 years moving forward.

Not that complicated or a Magic Pill. No Sir. Just the evidence, and simple suggestion. Of course, Petra and her team can do, see fit how they please, while we continue to observe. As Porky Pig once said; "Dats all folks".

FWIW: This is something, mentioned 3-4 seasons ago, even during success. So its' not a reactionary thing.

honzaneumannn
Oct 25th, 2014, 11:49 AM
No, the difference between you and me is that you constantly want her to change and want her to be something else while I can appreciate her for what she is now..and I don't need hope that she might change to something I see in her in the future :)
A perfect point. Petra will hardly change. Outside ex-Caroline (when still fallen in love with Rory), I do not know any other TOP player on the tour who would say (while being asked about her life preferences) that children are what she wants most from her life. No trophies, no money, no fame, no world no. 1 mentioned. Petra, you are unique and thus you deserve my full credit. Pls. stay the way you are, though it should mean, you wont win any other GS/YEC more.

In this regard, I always admired Clijsters. She loved her man and when she knew she will have a baby, she chose the baby over her tennis career - just perfect. And what a great comeback she then had...

Petronius
Oct 25th, 2014, 02:32 PM
Nothing is written in stone. Problem is: Petra and her team, HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED (as long as I followed her) to employ a full time male hitting partner. EVER! And that is just criminal, when you're speaking about the level of professionalism and things a team tries or employs to help their player.

This male hitting partner thing is obviously a very good idea. It's up to them whether they'll employ one, full-time or part-time. It may help her sharpen her tools for early rounds, when top players are rusty and vulnerable.

Or maybe they could do sth what Složil did for Graf, i.e. arranging hitting sessions with male players during joint WTA/ATP tournaments. Steffi usually smoked someone in straights under an hour and then needed some more on-court practice for the next match :lol:

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 03:04 PM
This male hitting partner thing is obviously a very good idea. It's up to them whether they'll employ one, full-time or part-time. It may help her sharpen her tools for early rounds, when top players are rusty and vulnerable.

Or maybe they could do sth what Složil did for Graf, i.e. arranging hitting sessions with male players during joint WTA/ATP tournaments. Steffi usually smoked someone in straights under an hour and then needed some more on-court practice for the next match :lol:

Not many players were as mentally prepared and ready to play as Graf.

Slozil, was a great coach. Speaking about him: Even Slozil wondered, raised questions concerning Petra's career in the past (made some public comments 2 years ago during the Navratilova snub; Petra sick, Prague O2 Arena Fed Cup Drama)? However, that's another subject/Just had to toss that in there! :lol:

Come to think of it: Czech's, Slozil, Navratilova, Lendl, and Marian Vajda, are/were all so well prepared, fulfilling their own, or players potential.

Petra, on the other hand/so far; comes from the Jana Novotna, Hana Mandlikova school of very talented and promising, but ultimately frustratingly lovable, wacky, under performing Czech's :lol: :hearts: :lol:

Czech/Slovak, Martina Hingis, fell somewhere in between (in personality, approach, as well as achievements). :lol: :eek: :lol:

on patrol
Oct 25th, 2014, 03:09 PM
-- Reader discretion is advised. --





In my opinion (and I can be quite inventive/imaginative), there is no hitting partner and higher level of professionalism, because
-Kotyza feels intimidated by a thought of having his role diminished,
-Kotyza doesn't speak English and doesn't seem to care in the least bit about it (what a role model, huh? This is limiting, especially when we take Petra's attention/motivation fragility into account),
-...
-and Petra feels for Kotyza, and hence doesn't rationalize.

What if Petra has had so many physios not because of her crapitude (which may be partly or even fully Kotyza's fault), but because of Kotyza instead? He's been around since November 2008 (after Petra's first scalps), so she probably associates him with her inevitable accomplishments (she was only 18 years old, duh!). Considering her (thought/expressed) family personality, she takes him as another father, which may be a double-edged sword. It's even worse with him getting married (and don't forget how stupidly scheduled the marriage was), expecting a baby and who knows, taking a mortgage, and obviously letting Petra know. Not saying he does these things on purpose - they all make him hard to get rid of and it's presumably not easy for Petra to question him.

Many posters here take pride in "Czech tennis school", but I honestly don't see Czechs to produce that many top level players, be able to make someone excel/have the needed edge. Navratilova and Lendl are rather self-made champions given their life stories (a lesbian and a man full of insecurities). Look at Berdych, who was thought to be the great new contender when fucking up with prime Federer and young prodigy Dull. He bettered many weak aspects of his game (mostly movement and serving) but one - mental fragility. I believe that every problem is solvable. Czechs may be great at drawing contours, but they seem to miss the details. Petra has all the talent in the world and she needs someone to help her with those details. That being said, I view Kotyza as an anchor and yet another lackey of Prostejov academy.

*Jack*
Oct 25th, 2014, 03:49 PM
Not many players were as mentally prepared and ready to play as Graf.

Slozil, was a great coach. Speaking about him: Even Slozil wondered, raised questions concerning Petra's career in the past (made some public comments 2 years ago during the Navratilova snub; Petra sick, Prague O2 Arena Fed Cup Drama)? However, that's another subject/Just had to toss that in there! :lol:

Come to think of it: Czech's, Slozil, Navratilova, Lendl, and Marian Vajda, are/were all so well prepared, fulfilling their own, or players potential.

Petra, on the other hand/so far; comes from the Jana Novotna, Hana Mandlikova school of very talented and promising, but ultimately frustratingly lovable, wacky, under performing Czech's :lol: :hearts: :lol:

Czech/Slovak, Martina Hingis, fell somewhere in between (in personality, approach, as well as achievements). :lol: :eek: :lol:
He's Slovak though. ;)

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 04:22 PM
-- Reader discretion is advised. --





In my opinion (and I can be quite inventive/imaginative), there is no hitting partner and higher level of professionalism, because
-Kotyza feels intimidated by a thought of having his role diminished,
-Kotyza doesn't speak English and doesn't seem to care in the least bit about it (what a role model, huh? This is limiting, especially when we take Petra's attention/motivation fragility into account),
-...
-and Petra feels for Kotyza, and hence doesn't rationalize.

What if Petra has had so many physios not because of her crapitude (which may be partly or even fully Kotyza's fault), but because of Kotyza instead? He's been around since November 2008 (after Petra's first scalps), so she probably associates him with her inevitable accomplishments (she was only 18 years old, duh!). Considering her (thought/expressed) family personality, she takes him as another father, which may be a double-edged sword. It's even worse with him getting married (and don't forget how stupidly scheduled the marriage was), expecting a baby and who knows, taking a mortgage, and obviously letting Petra know. Not saying he does these things on purpose - they all make him hard to get rid of and it's presumably not easy for Petra to question him.

Many posters here take pride in "Czech tennis school", but I honestly don't see Czechs to produce that many top level players, be able to make someone excel/have the needed edge. Navratilova and Lendl are rather self-made champions given their life stories (a lesbian and a man full of insecurities). Look at Berdych, who was thought to be the great new contender when fucking up with prime Federer and young prodigy Dull. He bettered many weak aspects of his game (mostly movement and serving) but one - mental fragility. I believe that every problem is solvable. Czechs may be great at drawing contours, but they seem to miss the details. Petra has all the talent in the world and she needs someone to help her with those details. That being said, I view Kotyza as an anchor and yet another lackey of Prostejov academy.

You said it brother/sister! :yeah:

However, right now, we're not even talking about his role being diminished, or of him even seeing it that way. We're just talking about a simple full time male hitting partner. :lol: :help: :lol:

Regarding the removal subject (especially for now)? Many Kotyza critics will even concede, the potential disrepair it may cause to Petra if he was fired, or having his role reduced. We get that.

On, the other hand, why not bring Petra some much needed help or advisor's (outside of the Prostojev pool as you noted), that can help her grow, go to that next level?

To give Kotyza credit. It's obvious, he's helped her with certain things, particular tennis skills wise, to go along with her comfortability with him. No doubt. We've even seen some new things and ongoing refinements be successful during the Asian run. However, it's the tactical/strategy, professional, mental approach, and their cohesive consistency where he lacks, or has obviously/notoriously reached his limit with Kvitova. :lol:

Petronius
Oct 25th, 2014, 04:26 PM
He's Slovak though. ;)

He is, but he's the product of the very same federal tennis program as Lendl or Martina, a former Czechoslovak player.

But no doubt that the differences between the two countries' approach to tennis training may have been growing now they've been separate for 20 years.

Petronius
Oct 25th, 2014, 04:43 PM
To give Kotyza credit. It's obvious, he's helped her with certain things, particular tennis skills wise, to go along with her comfortability with him. No doubt. We've even seen some new things and ongoing refinements be successful during the Asian run. However, it's the tactical/strategy, professional, mental approach, and their cohesive consistency where he lacks, or has obviously/notoriously reached his limit with Kvitova. :lol:

Show me a tactically/strategically, professionally and mentally prepared player in today's WTA :lol:

Four different slam winners, everybody is inconsistent, those who are now excelling at YEC had flopped during the Asian swing, etc.

Even some German posters are desperate, as last German player to win a slam was Steffi in 1999 and they have to rely on players imported from Poland and Yugoslavia (Lisicki, Kerber, Petkovic) and it's still not enough to get over the last hurdle with all those large resources this country has available :lol:

I like your perfectionist approach, but let's keep it real, this is women's tennis after all. In many third-world countries, women are just expected to marry and have kids and they don't even go to school or do any sport at a professional level :lol:

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 05:10 PM
Show me a tactically/strategically, professionally and mentally prepared player in today's WTA :lol:

Four different slam winners, everybody is inconsistent, those who are now excelling at YEC had flopped during the Asian swing, etc.

Even some German posters are desperate, as last German player to win a slam was Steffi in 1999 and they have to rely on players imported from Poland and Yugoslavia (Lisicki, Kerber, Petkovic) and it's still not enough to get over the last hurdle with all those large resources this country has available :lol:

I like your perfectionist approach, but let's keep it real, this is women's tennis after all. In many third-world countries, women are just expected to marry and have kids and they don't even go to school or do any sport at a professional level :lol:

All true (being a sometimes ATP fan, chauvinist myself). :lol: :yeah: :lol:

However, at least Aga, Wozniaki, Serena, Vika, Masha, etc., have had their multi-season consistency runs. Can Petra at least give us one (A Multi-Season run, though she was quite consistent in 2012 to follow up her 2011 campaign. She just didn't win much). :lol:

More importantly/A better question would be: Is Petra living up to her prodigious talent?...That's probably the more accurate gauge, comparison. Cause, when it's all said an done, and you ask yourself has/is Serena, Masha, Vika, etc., lived up to their talent, the answer will probably be yes. On the other hand: When you asked that question about Kvitova--especially now; the answers probably NO from most people in the know. :lol: :eek::lol:

Think about it? You can argue, most of the top 10 players (and I'm including Vika in this) have lived up to their talent and potential during their careers, with maybe the exception of Ivanovic, and most likely Kvitova.

TennisAddict84
Oct 25th, 2014, 05:22 PM
All true (being a sometimes ATP fan, chauvinist myself). :lol: :yeah: :lol:

However, at least Aga, Wozniaki, Serena, Vika, Masha, etc., have had their multi-season consistency runs. Can Petra at least give us one (A Multi-Season run, though she was quite consistent in 2012 to follow up her 2011 campaign. She just didn't win much). :lol:

More importantly/A better question would be: Is Petra living up to her prodigious talent?...That's probably the more accurate gauge, comparison. Cause, when it's all said an done, and you ask yourself has/is Serena, Masha, Vika, etc., lived up to their talent, the answer will probably be yes. On the other hand: When you asked that question about Kvitova--especially now; the answers probably NO from most people in the know. :lol: :eek::lol:

Think about it? You can argue, most of the top 10 players (and I'm including Vika in this) have lived up to their talent and potential during their careers, with maybe the exception of Ivanovic, and most likely Kvitova.

and that's the sad part and why most of us are sooo frustrated w/ petra when she loses 80% of the time...

because the reality is when petra WANTS to win...she usually wins...when petra loses, it's usually a result of her mentally or physically caving in

i feel like the only loss this yr that Petra didn't completely causes upon herself was that USO loss to krunic...who played an unorthodox game that really drove Petra nuts...but EVEN in that match, petra has so many chances to even the match and win it

that just goes to show you the insane amount of natural skill and talent Petra has...even when her opponent is playing at their best, she is still the one who controls the match

i feel like the only exception to this is serena...if she's having a great serving day and painting the lines...then she can outplay Petra w/ her serve

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 07:45 PM
and that's the sad part and why most of us are sooo frustrated w/ petra when she loses 80% of the time...

because the reality is when petra WANTS to win...she usually wins...when petra loses, it's usually a result of her mentally or physically caving in

i feel like the only loss this yr that Petra didn't completely causes upon herself was that USO loss to krunic...who played an unorthodox game that really drove Petra nuts...but EVEN in that match, petra has so many chances to even the match and win it

that just goes to show you the insane amount of natural skill and talent Petra has...even when her opponent is playing at their best, she is still the one who controls the match

i feel like the only exception to this is serena...if she's having a great serving day and painting the lines...then she can outplay Petra w/ her serve

Yup Yup (Gulp)!! :eek: :oh: :eek:

Of course, there's more deserving characters outside the top 10, with Lisicki, Georges, Barthel present to name a few. Notice they're all German? Just kidding. Of course, 2 time Slam winner, Svetlana Kuznetsova maybe described as one of the biggest overall disappointment outside the top 10, 20, 30 and counting in recent years? But people have become so used to it, they forget; including me.

Like I said previously. You gotta give Petra credit for one thing, which goes unnoticed.... As "disappointing" as she's been to many fans and observers. She's always managed to fall on her feet by the end of the year and remain in the top 10. Such is her talent. Let's just hope it continues, and that Petra won't be so bored--as Kuzzie--when she's Svetlana's age, that she'll be sucking up the joint like she's been the past several years? :eek:

Of course, the threshold and standards are certainly lower as you slide down the rankings (can Barthel or Georges, even consistently keep themselves in the top 20 or 30 for example), when discussing underachievers.

TennisAddict84
Oct 25th, 2014, 08:12 PM
Yup Yup (Gulp)!! :eek: :oh: :eek:

Of course, there's more deserving characters outside the top 10, with Lisicki, Georges, Barthel present to name a few. Notice they're all German? Just kidding. Of course, 2 time Slam winner, Svetlana Kuznetsova maybe described as one of the biggest overall disappointment outside the top 10, 20, 30 and counting in recent years? But people have become so used to it, they forget; including me.

Like I said previously. You gotta give Petra credit for one thing, which goes unnoticed.... As "disappointing" as she's been to many fans and observers. She's always managed to fall on her feet by the end of the year and remain in the top 10. Such is her talent. Let's just hope it continues, and that Petra won't be so bored--as Kuzzie--when she's Svetlana's age, that she'll be sucking up the joint like she's been the past several years? :eek:

Of course, the threshold and standards are certainly lower as you slide down the rankings (can Barthel or Georges, even consistently keep themselves in the top 20 or 30 for example), when discussing underachievers.

yeah, she's always gonna be able to string together tournament wins here and there from sheer talent/skill/ability alone

she gotta sort out the mental endurance conundrum...i feel like Petra is the kind of player who just can't play her way into having an eager, motivated mindset...she needs to go into a tournament feeling hungry

i think for her sake next year, she should probably avoid playing 3 tournaments in a row whenever possible...so during the clay swing for example, she should probably not play in Stuttgart anymore and just stick to Madrid and Rome

i think in some ways, it's better for Petra just to not play in a tournament at all if she's not gonna show up mentally because at least in that respect, her confidence is still preserved...but if she's going into any tournament not feeling it...then her physical game becomes inadvertently affected by her mindset, which then more than likely results in a loss, which would then potentially affect the confidence in her game in the long run

petra tends to have this attitude and habit of, "well lets just try and play and see what happens"...but it just does not work in her favor if the motivation is not there

it's always a tell tale sign whenever Petra loses in straight sets where the score line does not even appear close on paper

Excelscior
Oct 25th, 2014, 08:26 PM
yeah, she's always gonna be able to string together tournament wins here and there from sheer talent/skill/ability alone

she gotta sort out the mental endurance conundrum...i feel like Petra is the kind of player who just can't play her way into having an eager, motivated mindset...she needs to go into a tournament feeling hungry

i think for her sake next year, she should probably avoid playing 3 tournaments in a row whenever possible...so during the clay swing for example, she should probably not play in Stuttgart anymore and just stick to Madrid and Rome

i think in some ways, it's better for Petra just to not play in a tournament at all if she's not gonna show up mentally because at least in that respect, her confidence is still preserved...but if she's going into any tournament not feeling it...then her physical game becomes inadvertently affected by her mindset, which then more than likely results in a loss, which would then potentially affect the confidence in her game in the long run

petra tends to have this attitude and habit of, "well lets just try and play and see what happens"...but it just does not work in her favor if the motivation is not there

it's always a tell tale sign whenever Petra loses in straight sets where the score line does not even appear close on paper

Good points; insight! :yeah:

Gotta go. I'll try to comment more later.

But keep em coming if you wish (and in case I forget, it's too late, or I'm too busy). :lol:

Just kidding. :lol:

Excelscior
Oct 26th, 2014, 03:22 AM
yeah, she's always gonna be able to string together tournament wins here and there from sheer talent/skill/ability alone

she gotta sort out the mental endurance conundrum...i feel like Petra is the kind of player who just can't play her way into having an eager, motivated mindset...she needs to go into a tournament feeling hungry

i think for her sake next year, she should probably avoid playing 3 tournaments in a row whenever possible...so during the clay swing for example, she should probably not play in Stuttgart anymore and just stick to Madrid and Rome

i think in some ways, it's better for Petra just to not play in a tournament at all if she's not gonna show up mentally because at least in that respect, her confidence is still preserved...but if she's going into any tournament not feeling it...then her physical game becomes inadvertently affected by her mindset, which then more than likely results in a loss, which would then potentially affect the confidence in her game in the long run

petra tends to have this attitude and habit of, "well lets just try and play and see what happens"...but it just does not work in her favor if the motivation is not there

it's always a tell tale sign whenever Petra loses in straight sets where the score line does not even appear close on paper

You hit on the head; literally. It all comes down to Petra's brain.

We spend a lot of time here talking about Male Hitting Partners, New Coaches, Tactics, fitness, advisors, etc.. However, none of that really matters, unless Petra has buy in, wants to do something, is inspired, and/or it comes from someone whom she really respects who could convince her. She's gotta believe or want it, otherwise nothing else matters.

The reality is, Petra seems quite comfortable with her team, and what she's going besides some progressive improvements or changes.

This is where good, and new coaches come in. They can make player do, or try things they wouldn't normally do because they like or respect them enough to listen.

Of course, this is Petra. And she appears to have no desire at the moment to radically change or add new things, methods or people.

OK, I went off on a tangent there. Lol. Yes, Petra can/should carefully plan her schedule. And she's gotta find a way, and/or to have the courage to walk away from New Haven, if does well in Montreal or Cincy.

We'll see?

Power Shot
Oct 26th, 2014, 03:45 AM
Greetings, guys. Been busy this week. Figures that Petra flops and yet finally does what I have asked her to do and that is beat Maria. As this thread has become active again, I am just going to flat say it: Kotzya is probably a great guy, but it's time for him to go(yes, I know, not happening). Seriously, all the other top ladies have male hitting partners and this guy is just lobbing balls back to her? Epic girlie-man stuff there. While it is solely up to Petra to do everything she has to to win a tennis match and/or tournament, being one-dimensional, especially when that one dimension is hitting the hell out of the ball without knowing where it might end up, it's time for a change. Petra has the ability to win 10-15 majors(I don't think I am exaggerating that), but her prodigious talent is being wasted/not honed in other areas besides power baseline hitting. I think if a change is ever made, Petra should look for someone who was a good volleyer. Find a hitting partner who can return her firepower with some of his own(Roddick, Blake just to name a couple if they are willing). Also, the fact that Kotzya does not speak English is rather disturbing. We all know that Czech will always be Petra's first language and that is perfectly fine, but I feel like she is limiting herself in regards to opening up herself to maybe expanding in America. Petra also needs to look for help outside of the Czech Republic. At this point, she is too comfortable in her cocoon of Czech people(namely Kotzya and other coaches). She needs a fresh voice who won't coddle her and get tough and I just feel that anyone from the Czech Republic will ultimately tell her what she wants to hear. The opportunities are there. It's not nearly too late for Petra to be an all-time great, but it's time for Petra to realize that, unless things change, she will never realize her full potential that we all know she has.

Excelscior
Oct 26th, 2014, 05:28 AM
Greetings, guys. Been busy this week. Figures that Petra flops and yet finally does what I have asked her to do and that is beat Maria. As this thread has become active again, I am just going to flat say it: Kotzya is probably a great guy, but it's time for him to go(yes, I know, not happening). Seriously, all the other top ladies have male hitting partners and this guy is just lobbing balls back to her? Epic girlie-man stuff there. While it is solely up to Petra to do everything she has to to win a tennis match and/or tournament, being one-dimensional, especially when that one dimension is hitting the hell out of the ball without knowing where it might end up, it's time for a change. Petra has the ability to win 10-15 majors(I don't think I am exaggerating that), but her prodigious talent is being wasted/not honed in other areas besides power baseline hitting. I think if a change is ever made, Petra should look for someone who was a good volleyer. Find a hitting partner who can return her firepower with some of his own(Roddick, Blake just to name a couple if they are willing). Also, the fact that Kotzya does not speak English is rather disturbing. We all know that Czech will always be Petra's first language and that is perfectly fine, but I feel like she is limiting herself in regards to opening up herself to maybe expanding in America. Petra also needs to look for help outside of the Czech Republic. At this point, she is too comfortable in her cocoon of Czech people(namely Kotzya and other coaches). She needs a fresh voice who won't coddle her and get tough and I just feel that anyone from the Czech Republic will ultimately tell her what she wants to hear. The opportunities are there. It's not nearly too late for Petra to be an all-time great, but it's time for Petra to realize that, unless things change, she will never realize her full potential that we all know she has.

Can't argue with anything you said there Lupojohn (eh, maybe the potential Major Count total, especially from now moving forward; along with the possibility of Roddick or Blake being available to Petra as a hitting partner). :lol: :unsure: :lol:

However, what's a few expected/possible majors, along with EX ATP stars availability and servitude between friends and Petra's extended internet family. "A mere bag of shells" :)

Back on topic: I feel your pain, frustration, and observations many times over the years, up until the present regarding your analysis, above comments Lupo. You tell no lies!

Welcome back!! :lol: :bigwave: :lol:

Excelscior
Oct 26th, 2014, 03:52 PM
Greetings, guys. Been busy this week. Figures that Petra flops and yet finally does what I have asked her to do and that is beat Maria. As this thread has become active again, I am just going to flat say it: Kotzya is probably a great guy, but it's time for him to go(yes, I know, not happening). Seriously, all the other top ladies have male hitting partners and this guy is just lobbing balls back to her? Epic girlie-man stuff there. While it is solely up to Petra to do everything she has to to win a tennis match and/or tournament, being one-dimensional, especially when that one dimension is hitting the hell out of the ball without knowing where it might end up, it's time for a change. Petra has the ability to win 10-15 majors(I don't think I am exaggerating that), but her prodigious talent is being wasted/not honed in other areas besides power baseline hitting. I think if a change is ever made, Petra should look for someone who was a good volleyer. Find a hitting partner who can return her firepower with some of his own(Roddick, Blake just to name a couple if they are willing). Also, the fact that Kotzya does not speak English is rather disturbing. We all know that Czech will always be Petra's first language and that is perfectly fine, but I feel like she is limiting herself in regards to opening up herself to maybe expanding in America. Petra also needs to look for help outside of the Czech Republic. At this point, she is too comfortable in her cocoon of Czech people(namely Kotzya and other coaches). She needs a fresh voice who won't coddle her and get tough and I just feel that anyone from the Czech Republic will ultimately tell her what she wants to hear. The opportunities are there. It's not nearly too late for Petra to be an all-time great, but it's time for Petra to realize that, unless things change, she will never realize her full potential that we all know she has.

Can't argue with anything you said there Lupojohn (eh, maybe the potential Major Count total, especially from now moving forward; along with the possibility of Roddick or Blake being available to Petra as a hitting partner). :lol: :unsure: :lol:

However, what's a few expected/possible majors, along with EX ATP stars availability and servitude between friends and Petra's extended internet family. "A mere bag of shells" :)

Back on topic: I feel your pain, frustration, and observations many times over the years, up until the present regarding your analysis, above comments Lupo. You tell no lies!

Welcome back!! :lol: :bigwave: :lol:

PS Lupo: In fairness to the Czech's, there are some brilliant independent minds in, or originally from the Czech Republic such as Pavel Slozil, Ivan Lendl, and of course Martina Navratilova. These folks are independent of Petra's management (at least not beholden to it), and that entire National Czech Tennis, Fed Cup circle in the Czech Republic which Petra and her all encompassing management are a part of.

Martina, and Slozil have already openly commented about their independence of it (in one way or another), and I wouldn't be surprised if Lendl did as well.

So though it may seem like everyone in or out of the Czech Republic is affiliated with or in Lock Step with Petra's management (or tennis scene over there; replete with government contacts, cronyism and favors), luckily it's not all of them. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Nonetheless, I get and agree with your premise (and have stated it for years), that Petra should expand her contacts and search the world for the best talent. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen in the near future as far as I can see (especially if the normally complacent, nonchalant, wacky, and now resurgent Kvitova remains in the top 5-10 with a couple of titles here and there each year). Though I hope I'm wrong on the latter. :sad:

Power Shot
Dec 8th, 2014, 09:43 PM
And as I mention Petra should expand beyond the Czech Republic for coaching help, the one Czech who could help her is now in Puffwanska's camp. Petra :facepalm:

Jimmie48
Dec 8th, 2014, 10:20 PM
I'm glad Radwanska has taken up Navratilova, she can't mess with Petra now :)

Excelscior
Dec 9th, 2014, 04:32 PM
Don't know the details.

However, Nav's may well be able to help Puffwanska?

I'm sure her heart would have been more into assisting Petra though? :lol:

More importantly: I think, Nav's would more be able to assist Petra than Radwanska (as far as all the Nav's/Petra talk), as I feel Radwanska is closer to her potential as a tennis players than Petra is. How much more oil can one realistically squeeze out of the Aga-Shale Stone?

Nonetheless, Nav's may be able to help Puffwanska better utilize her touch and net game. So good for Radwanska for wanting to get better.

Who cares what we think (or what she's paying Nav's). At least she visibly wants to go better, and is trying new/different things.

We'll see?

Macu
Dec 10th, 2014, 05:27 AM
So Aga and Petra will meet each other somewhere at QF of a grandslam and we will see Martina pulling for Aga and giving her recipes how to beat Petra?. Strange. But that is life.

Excelscior
Dec 10th, 2014, 02:34 PM
So Aga and Petra will meet each other somewhere at QF of a grandslam and we will see Martina pulling for Aga and giving her recipes how to beat Petra?. Strange. But that is life.

Yeah, that sounds/feels kinda weird (though I don't know the extent of Nav's working with Aga).

Maybe it's just as an adviser instead of a full time, traveling coach? So that wouldn't happen anyway?

Who knows? But I know what you mean.

Too bad, Petra couldn't find away to bring Nav's into her team in some helpful capacity.

Power Shot
Jan 24th, 2015, 12:20 PM
Well, this thread should be busy again.

Power Shot
Jan 24th, 2015, 06:40 PM
Tomas called Lendl to coach him and when he said no, he pointed him to Dani Vallverdu. Maybe it's time Petra place a phone call to him and see what he has to say.

Excelscior
Jan 24th, 2015, 07:49 PM
Tomas called Lendl to coach him and when he said no, he pointed him to Dani Vallverdu. Maybe it's time Petra place a phone call to him and see what he has to say.

Call Who (Tomas, Ivan, or Vallverdu)? :lol:

I hear you Lupojohn.

This would all be true, possible, if Petra actually wanted the help/saw a problem. :help:

Of course she's disappointed. But does she want change, to improve on things?....That's a whole nother argument IMHO.

If anything in her career, Petra's demonstrated herself a follower/procrastinator, not a leader.

Hope she proves us wrong.

Power Shot
Jan 24th, 2015, 08:50 PM
Call Who (Tomas, Ivan, or Vallverdu)? :lol:

I hear you Lupojohn.

This would all be true, possible, if Petra actually wanted the help/saw a problem. :help:

Of course she's disappointed. But does she want change, to improve on things?....That's a whole nother argument IMHO.

If anything in her career, Petra's demonstrated herself a follower/procrastinator, not a leader.

Hope she proves us wrong.

Ivan. And I agree with everything else you said.

Power Shot
Jan 24th, 2015, 08:57 PM
Let me also add that for some reason I looked up Kotzya's name on Twitter and came across him being an assistant coach on the Fed Cup team. My only reaction was:

:facepalm:

steni
Jan 25th, 2015, 01:41 AM
I doubt Lendl would work with a headcase like Petra, also not sure that fatyza would be happy about it :lol:

Power Shot
Jan 25th, 2015, 03:12 AM
I doubt Lendl would work with a headcase like Petra, also not sure that fatyza would be happy about it :lol:

Who cares what he thinks at this point? Isn't that why this thread is here in the first place? :lol:

ChagoDoni
Jan 25th, 2015, 08:40 AM
0. Grow up.
1.Fire Kotyza, who can't help her to improve anymore. This should've been done in 2013, which is 2 years ago.
2. Hire a full time hitting partner.

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 01:25 PM
I doubt Lendl would work with a headcase like Petra, also not sure that fatyza would be happy about it :lol:

Any less of a headcase that Andy Murray was at the time? And he was slamless then to boot. :eek:

Actually, I remember during the 2013 Fed Cup (the one where Petra was sick with a virus), Lendl, Martina, Pavel Slozil, etc., were all discussing Petra openly in the Czech Media. So they do care. It's Petra, who acts like she doesn't.

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 01:26 PM
0. Grow up.
1.Fire Kotyza, who can't help her to improve anymore. This should've been done in 2013, which is 2 years ago.
2. Hire a full time hitting partner.

Don't worry.

You can keep repeating this, over and over again, till Petra gets the message. :lol: :yeah: :lol:

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 01:32 PM
Who cares what he thinks at this point? Isn't that why this thread is here in the first place? :lol:

But doesn't he know, he's not big time; it's not working in many respects?

He's too local IMHO. And his preparations during the majors has been dismal the past 2 years (Wimby's not the only one).

He should recommend a consultant, if Petra's too afraid, or doesn't care for one (but I guess that would be his way of admitting he's lacking). But that's the whole point of improvement. Right?

By the time, Petra finally decides to do something, it would be so easy to do, it probably won't matter anymore. Petra will just be going with the crowd by then.

pov
Jan 25th, 2015, 01:45 PM
I only hope that PK has the sense to keep her team the way it is. Maybe a few sessions with a sports psychologist but other than that her team is great.


It's interesting to have a case-study how an opinion - with no evidence and little common sense - can be taken up by more and more people to the point where many think it is a fact rather than just a remote possibility.

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 02:05 PM
I only hope that PK has the sense to keep her team the way it is. Maybe a few sessions with a sports psychologist but other than that her team is great.


It's interesting to have a case-study how an opinion - with no evidence and little common sense - can be taken up by more and more people to the point where many think it is a fact rather than just a remote possibility.

They're reams of evidence of Kotyza's incompetence going back 3 years (post 2011 in December to be exact).

Just cause you may be unaware of them (or forgot), don't mean it doesn't exist.

But keep believing/saying that. :yeah:

Plus (even if you didn't have that), sometimes you just need a change/a different voice, if you're not improving with someone.

At best you may need a specialist, to work on the things Kotyza's not good at (strategy, goal setting, confidence, Grand Slams, etc.).

Nothing wrong with that. But yes, we have a long public record, of Kotyza saying and doing dumb, incompetent things after her breakthrough 2011. He's just out of his depth to a large part. And they've never acted like a true top 5 player team.

PS: I would rather have Martina Nav's in my corner as a consultant, than any silly Sports Shrink in a heartbeat (Petra's had her own for years now BTW). Top coaches, sports minds are the thru psychological sports masters. Certain people, just need that last step, stage. Just go ask Andy Murray, what Lendl finally did for him, that I'm sure numerous sports shrinks couldn't. Ironically, Martina's been campaigning to Petra for years.

TennisAddict84
Jan 25th, 2015, 04:06 PM
But doesn't he know, he's not big time; it's not working in many respects?

He's too local IMHO. And his preparations during the majors has been dismal the past 2 years (Wimby's not the only one).

He should recommend a consultant, if Petra's too afraid, or doesn't care for one (but I guess that would be his way of admitting he's lacking). But that's the whole point of improvement. Right?

By the time, Petra finally decides to do something, it would be so easy to do, it probably won't matter anymore. Petra will just be going with the crowd by then.

yeah if he really cares about Petra and her improvement as a player...he'll go ahead and do this...because her overall level of play in GS at this point as an "elite" player is inexcusable

and she should've gotten a male hitting partner ages ago...maybe then she would've actually been prepared for Sharapova in that 2012 AO SF instead of assuming that she could hit through her a la 2011 Wimbledon final

Palkov
Jan 25th, 2015, 04:48 PM
I would like to see Steffi in Petra's team (and Andre as a hitting partner:worship:).

Ignoring her enormous experience it would work to me also because:
1) Steffi is a similar type of personality as Petra - shy, humble girl from a small town (I know Mannheim is larger than Bilovec or Fulnek)
2) Having Alex in team now would help her quickly fit in

If Lindsay Davenport can do that with 4 kids, why Steffi would not with 2?
What do you think? ;)

Petronius
Jan 25th, 2015, 04:57 PM
I doubt Lendl would work with a headcase like Petra, also not sure that fatyza would be happy about it :lol:

:lol:

Didn't expect the thread I started would be so entertaining :lol:

steni
Jan 25th, 2015, 05:10 PM
Like seriously! I cant imagine Lendl on Petra's player box :lol: or Steffi :spit:

TennisAddict84
Jan 25th, 2015, 05:25 PM
I would like to see Steffi in Petra's team (and Andre as a hitting partner:worship:).

Ignoring her enormous experience it would work to me also because:
1) Steffi is a similar type of personality as Petra - shy, humble girl from a small town (I know Mannheim is larger than Bilovec or Fulnek)
2) Having Alex in team now would help her quickly fit in

If Lindsay Davenport can do that with 4 kids, why Steffi would not with 2?
What do you think? ;)

well, Steffi would certainly help w/ Petra's match discipline...given how Steffi always gave her all in every match and was HELL BENT on trying to win every point...Petra could def learn a thing or two ;)

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 06:03 PM
I would like to see Steffi in Petra's team (and Andre as a hitting partner:worship:).

Ignoring her enormous experience it would work to me also because:
1) Steffi is a similar type of personality as Petra - shy, humble girl from a small town (I know Mannheim is larger than Bilovec or Fulnek)
2) Having Alex in team now would help her quickly fit in

If Lindsay Davenport can do that with 4 kids, why Steffi would not with 2?
What do you think? ;)

I think it's a great fit (especially the "the two for two" aspect). :shrug:

You get a former "All time" great player as coach, and her fantastic Grand Slamming Winning Husband as hitting partner. :lol:

Hell, we can just throw in Slozil for Spiritual Advisor. And he can even place the phone call to make it all happen. :lol:

Shoot, I'll take Slozil by himself as "Tennis Advisor" right now in a heartbeat. :help:

*Jack*
Jan 25th, 2015, 06:12 PM
I think it's a great fit (especially the "the two for two" aspect). :shrug:

You get a former "All time" great player as coach, and her fantastic Grand Slamming Winning Husband as hitting partner. :lol:

Hell, we can just throw in Slozil for Spiritual Advisor. And he can even place the phone call to make it all happen. :lol:

Shoot, I'll take Slozil by himself as "Tennis Advisor" right now in a heartbeat. :help:
Somebody inscribe (if this is the right word for it) this in stone! :worship: :cool:

Excelscior
Jan 25th, 2015, 06:27 PM
Somebody inscribe (if this is the right word for it) this in stone! :worship: :cool:

Ironically, if you remember Jack, during the 2013 Fed Cup Fiasco (Petra, Martina, etc.), Slozil actually indicated he speaks with Petra.

Now, I'm sure how often this was, if at all (could have been polite, if Petra didn't want to talk to him). But that's what he had expressed at the time.

If you remember, Petra was really struggling that year, and wasn't feeling well around the time of the Fed Cup. Martina was busy looking for Petra (along with her problems with her Fed Cup invite, etc.), so Slozil, Lendl, and Martina, were all commenting on Petra.

I doubt, they've spoken recently. But you really wish Petra was more outgoing like that.

Palkov
Jan 25th, 2015, 07:43 PM
I think it's a great fit (especially the "the two for two" aspect). :shrug:

You get a former "All time" great player as coach, and her fantastic Grand Slamming Winning Husband as hitting partner. :lol:

Hell, we can just throw in Slozil for Spiritual Advisor. And he can even place the phone call to make it all happen. :lol:

Shoot, I'll take Slozil by himself as "Tennis Advisor" right now in a heartbeat. :help:

Exactly! I believe he is still in touch with Steffi (and maybe with Petra too). Should not be a problem for him to organize some highly confidential meeting in Monaco :)
And with support of IMG, that's a real win-win situation for all of them!!!

steni
Jan 25th, 2015, 10:20 PM
^ omg you guys are delusional :spit:

Excelscior
Jan 26th, 2015, 12:40 AM
Exactly! I believe he is still in touch with Steffi (and maybe with Petra too). Should not be a problem for him to organize some highly confidential meeting in Monaco :)
And with support of IMG, that's a real win-win situation for all of them!!!

Yeah, we can dream, or joke around, right Palkov (to Steni's Chagrin)? :lol:

Yeah, Slozil has mentioned in the past that he and Petra do chat.

Not sure about Steffi, but I'll take your word for it; makes sense.

Hell, if anything, maybe he can introduce them to each other during the next major, and Petra can maybe get some advice (if god forbid start a phone relationship)? At worst; ask Slozil about Steffi and he in preparation. She should be her own person. I don't see why any of this would/should bother Kotyza.

Petra's gotta take advantage of the contacts and talent that she has, before it's too late.

hulegu
Jan 26th, 2015, 09:05 AM
I wonder if Petra calls Martina if she'll leave Aga the next day. :lol:

Steffi and Petra would be too good to be true :hearts:

Excelscior
Jan 26th, 2015, 02:28 PM
I wonder if Petra calls Martina if she'll leave Aga the next day. :lol:

Steffi and Petra would be too good to be true :hearts:

I'm sure she would!! :eek: :tape: :eek:

Martina, made it very clear on TC, that she took the job, cause Aga asked.

More importantly; how does Petra feel, knowing that Aga got farther in the Aussie Open with Martina, than Petra did with her and Kotyza? :sad:

It's official (if it hasn't been the past three years) Petra. You need outside help, assistance in The Majors.

How would she had felt, if they were playing against each other? Would it had finally hit her, "hey, maybe I should have listened to Martina, and tried this long time ago" :lol: :scratch: :lol:

Excelscior
Jan 26th, 2015, 02:47 PM
I wonder if Petra calls Martina if she'll leave Aga the next day. :lol:

Steffi and Petra would be too good to be true :hearts:

Yes, "Steffi" and Petra would make a great team to. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Funny thing is: Martina and Petra have so much in common, that if Petra would just let her in, she would notice their careers parallel each others so much.

There's so much Petra can learn from Martina, that Kotyza knows jack shit about!

I guess in Petra's warped mind, she doesn't want to let Martina down in some way (can't be fear of hardwork, if she's with Stober now)? :unsure:

Synth
Jan 26th, 2015, 02:58 PM
yeah if he really cares about Petra and her improvement as a player...he'll go ahead and do this...because her overall level of play in GS at this point as an "elite" player is inexcusable

and she should've gotten a male hitting partner ages ago...maybe then she would've actually been prepared for Sharapova in that 2012 AO SF instead of assuming that she could hit through her a la 2011 Wimbledon final

THIS. :worship:

Palkov
Jan 26th, 2015, 07:19 PM
Yeah, we can dream, or joke around, right Palkov (to Steni's Chagrin)? :lol:



Sure, I like keep dreaming about it :)

steni
Jan 26th, 2015, 07:43 PM
:p

TennisAddict84
Jan 27th, 2015, 12:34 AM
Yes, "Steffi" and Petra would make a great team to. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Funny thing is: Martina and Petra have so much in common, that if Petra would just let her in, she would notice their careers parallel each others so much.

There's so much Petra can learn from Martina, that Kotyza knows jack shit about!

I guess in Petra's warped mind, she doesn't want to let Martina down in some way (can't be fear of hardwork, if she's with Stober now)? :unsure:

i think it's due to her loyalty to Kotyza and not wanting to undermine him as a coach

steni
Jan 27th, 2015, 12:47 AM
[/B]

i think it's due to her loyalty to Kotyza and not wanting to undermine him as a coach

always kotyza :mad:

hellokvitty
Jan 27th, 2015, 12:59 AM
always kotyza :mad:
Petra is in love with him. :inlove:

Excelscior
Jan 27th, 2015, 03:34 AM
[/B]

i think it's due to her loyalty to Kotyza and not wanting to undermine him as a coach

What does Kotyza now about managing Grand Slams? :eek:

Let him coach tennis shots. And let Martina deal with the stresses and expectations of of trying to win majors and be a top ranked player. Simple!

I really don't see any overlapping issue. :shrug:

hellokvitty
Jan 27th, 2015, 03:43 AM
What does Kotyza now about managing Grand Slams? :eek:

Let him coach tennis shots. And let Martina deal with the stresses and expectations of of trying to win majors and be a top ranked player. Simple!

I really don't see any overlapping issue. :shrug:

Will the great one accept a limited role? Martina strikes me as the trouser wearer type.

On second thought, she is desperate to be in Petra's team, she'd accept ball fetcher role. :sobbing:

Excelscior
Jan 27th, 2015, 03:55 AM
Will the great one accept a limited role? Martina strikes me as the trouser wearer type.

On second thought, she is desperate to be in Petra's team, she'd accept ball fetcher role. :sobbing:

She has that role with Aga now (at least officially). Aga, still has her regular coach.

:yeah::yeah: on the latter!! We hope (unless she feels Kotyza's an absolute idiot)!!?? :oh:

steni
Jan 27th, 2015, 04:58 AM
Berdych just beat Nadull :lol: things looking good for him after firing his old coach :lol: Petra take notes!

Rex59
Jan 27th, 2015, 06:31 PM
Yes, "Steffi" and Petra would make a great team to. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Funny thing is: Martina and Petra have so much in common, that if Petra would just let her in, she would notice their careers parallel each others so much.

There's so much Petra can learn from Martina, that Kotyza knows jack shit about!

I guess in Petra's warped mind, she doesn't want to let Martina down in some way (can't be fear of hardwork, if she's with Stober now)? :unsure:

Would you want Martina coaching Petra after what she has just pulled on Aggie? I had initially thought that Nav' would be a good fit for Petra. But, this behavior by Martina, respecting Aggie, suggests that Martina has some serious ego issues.

steni
Jan 27th, 2015, 07:10 PM
what? that radwanska didnt follow the game plan or not giving credit to v. williams? are you a venus's fan too? why willyturds are so pressed with martina :rolleyes:

Excelscior
Jan 27th, 2015, 07:40 PM
Would you want Martina coaching Petra after what she has just pulled on Aggie? I had initially thought that Nav' would be a good fit for Petra. But, this behavior by Martina, respecting Aggie, suggests that Martina has some serious ego issues.

Well, let's put it this way.

Martina, would be a better fit for Petra vs Aga for various reasons (though I certainly hear what you're saying). :lol: :oh: :lol:

TennisAddict84
Jan 27th, 2015, 08:31 PM
what? that radwanska didnt follow the game plan or not giving credit to v. williams? are you a venus's fan too? why willyturds are so pressed with martina :rolleyes:

there's an entire thread in GM about this that I read before...but basically they were reviewing highlights of the match on Tennis Channel and Navratilova was running her mouth and saying that Aga played like shit and didn't follow their game plan at all

so yea...i had initially thought Navratilova would be a good fit for Petra, but i forgot what an egomaniac she can be which does not bode well for our sensitive Petra

Excelscior
Jan 27th, 2015, 09:27 PM
there's an entire thread in GM about this that I read before...but basically they were reviewing highlights of the match on Tennis Channel and Navratilova was running her mouth and saying that Aga played like shit and didn't follow their game plan at all

so yea...i had initially thought Navratilova would be a good fit for Petra, but i forgot what an egomaniac she can be which does not bode well for our sensitive Petra

Did not see Martina on TC, or read the thread on TF. :lol:

In fairness, don't you think Martina (with all her suppossed EGO), would probably be a bit more delicate in discussing Petra, cause that's a relationships she wants to work?

Remember, Martina made it clear on TC that Aga solicited her.

Plus, most big time players or coaches have ego's. I guess, you're looking for Pavel Složil , or maybe Ivan Lendl (those who keep it to themselves or private)? :lol:

Power Shot
Jan 27th, 2015, 09:34 PM
Will the great one accept a limited role? Martina strikes me as the trouser wearer type.

On second thought, she is desperate to be in Petra's team, she'd accept ball fetcher role. :sobbing:

Has she indicated desperation to be in Petra's team?

Power Shot
Jan 27th, 2015, 09:36 PM
Plus, most big time players or coaches have ego's.

Michael/Kei don't seem to have big-time egos.

steni
Jan 27th, 2015, 11:11 PM
there's an entire thread in GM about this that I read before...but basically they were reviewing highlights of the match on Tennis Channel and Navratilova was running her mouth and saying that Aga played like shit and didn't follow their game plan at all

so yea...i had initially thought Navratilova would be a good fit for Petra, but i forgot what an egomaniac she can be which does not bode well for our sensitive Petra

so what? she played like shit :lol: Also, I doubt she would talk the same way about Petra,, I meant she could have done it long ago, all the times that Petra played like shit I never read or heard anything from MN.

steni
Jan 27th, 2015, 11:18 PM
Did not see Martina on TC, or read the thread on TF. :lol:

In fairness, don't you think Martina (with all her suppossed EGO), would probably be a bit more delicate in discussing Petra, cause that's a relationships she wants to work?

Remember, Martina made it clear on TC that Aga solicited her.

Plus, most big time players or coaches have ego's. I guess, you're looking for Pavel Složil , or maybe Ivan Lendl (those who keep it to themselves or private)? :lol:

Is there a thread in this subforum about Slozil saying that Petra was overweight back in 2012???

hellokvitty
Jan 28th, 2015, 12:53 AM
Has she indicated desperation to be in Petra's team?

I am taking liberties with the term "desperation," but Martina has made herself available to Petra repeatedly only to talk to Petra's hand.

hellokvitty
Jan 28th, 2015, 01:01 AM
so what? she played like shit :lol: Also, I doubt she would talk the same way about Petra,, I meant she could have done it long ago, all the times that Petra played like shit I never read or heard anything from MN.

Right, she's had plenty of opportunities as commentator to be critical of Petra, but she's bitten her tongue. Would she badmouth Petra once she were on Petra's team and risk being on the out again? She would be more diplomatic in public with Petra.

steni
Jan 28th, 2015, 01:41 AM
Probably MN hates Radwanka already :lol:

Excelscior
Jan 28th, 2015, 05:31 AM
Is there a thread in this subforum about Slozil saying that Petra was overweight back in 2012???

Eh, that I don't remember.

It was more so "what's wrong with Petra", during the 2013 Fed Cup, and Slozil was one of the people that commented in the Czech Press.

Excelscior
Jan 28th, 2015, 05:32 AM
I am taking liberties with the term "desperation," but Martina has made herself available to Petra repeatedly only to talk to Petra's hand.


This is true, can't be denied. :eek:

steni
Jan 28th, 2015, 02:46 PM
found it, it was posted by Lufa

:eek: he was right about Petra...

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=439545&page=106

Excelscior
Jan 28th, 2015, 05:34 PM
found it, it was posted by Lufa

:eek: he was right about Petra...

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=439545&page=106

You can tell he wasn't too impressed with Petra work habits/dedication, and/or her team, even way back then (though he was trying to be constructive, but honest)!!??

Quite honestly; neither was Martina and Lendl for that matter (with Kotyza and Mr. C). :help: :oh: :help:

It's funny, everyone seemingly Czech, famous and sports related was getting it in around this time. I remember Jaromír Jágr speaking about how Petra 'wasn't ready' for the fame and expectations as well. It was obvious, neither were Petra's team (probably still not).

It was like a damn near National Crisis/scandal. :eek:

Power Shot
Jan 28th, 2015, 07:53 PM
I am taking liberties with the term "desperation," but Martina has made herself available to Petra repeatedly only to talk to Petra's hand.

You used the term desperation, so I figured i'd respond.

Excelscior
Jan 29th, 2015, 02:22 PM
Take Notes, Petra/Kotyza.

Serena did exactly to Keys what Petra should have.

Serena won a close first set in a tiebreak, where neither player played great, when Keys actually had a decent amount more winners than Williams.

Serena took advantage of Keys 2nd serve, which is what you thought Petra would have done, as Kvitova should have the advantage against ALL HER OPPONENTS with her 2nd serve (of course, we know, neither of Petra serves were worth shit, and her ROS was completely AWOL vs Keys).

Then in the second set, when Keys felt the pressure of losing the first, and getting behind in the second, she started spraying errors all over the place, while her movement started to be exposed (minus her 5-1 service game as Keys fought off 7 match points and held on).

She'll probably lose the second set now 6-2 (though Serena's not playing that great herself), after losing the first 7-6. But Kudos to Serena, for playing like a champion when not at her best (unlike Petra). :oh:

The sad part is (besides the completely wide open Draw Petra should have had to the Semi's): Petra would/should have given Serena a tussle and mostly likely won if she was playing at her Pre-Keys level. :eek:

Shame (especially, considering how poorly both Sharapova and Williams looked at times through out this tournament). But once again; Kudos to them for finding ways to stay alive and make it to the finals!

Update: Serena wins 7-6 6-2. And congrats to Keys on her Aussie Open run. :yeah:

It'll be interesting to see what Keys does at the French and Wimby, if anything at all? :scratch:

Petra Kvitova: The Gift that keeps giving (to her opponents, during early rds in Majors)!! :help:

TennisAddict84
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:01 PM
Take Notes, Petra/Kotyza.

Serena did exactly to Keys what Petra should have.

Serena won a close first set in a tiebreak, where neither player played great, when Keys actually had a decent amount more winners than Williams.

Serena took advantage of Keys 2nd serve, which is what you thought Petra would have done, as Kvitova should have the advantage against ALL HER OPPONENTS with her 2nd serve (of course, we know, neither of Petra serves were worth shit, and her ROS was completely AWOL vs Keys).

Then in the second set, when Keys felt the pressure of losing the first, and getting behind in the second, she started spraying errors all over the place, while her movement started to be exposed (minus her 5-1 service game as Keys fought off 7 match points and held on).

She'll probably lose the second set now 6-2 (though Serena's not playing that great herself), after losing the first 7-6. But Kudos to Serena, for playing like a champion when not at her best (unlike Petra). :oh:

The sad part is (besides the completely wide open Draw Petra should have had to the Semi's): Petra would/should have given Serena a tussle and mostly likely won if she was playing at her Pre-Keys level. :eek:

Shame (especially, considering how poorly both Sharapova and Williams looked at times through out this tournament). But once again; Kudos to them for finding ways to stay alive and make it to the finals!

Update: Serena wins 7-6 6-2. And congrats to Keys on her Aussie Open run. :yeah:

It'll be interesting to see what Keys does at the French and Wimby, if anything at all? :scratch:

Petra Kvitova: The Gift that keeps giving (to her opponents, during early rds in Majors)!! :help:

i saw the match...not sure if i agree w/ this :lol:

in the 1st set, i actually felt Keys came out blazing, over hitting and overpowering Serena...Keys was clearly the one dictating...the only blip came when she had lost her one service game after she had broken Serena in the 1st game...otherwise, she would've and should've won that 1st set

i don't think Serena played poorly in that 1st set though...she came out sharp w/ her footwork and hitting aces galore...i know people are saying that Serena's ground game was below par in that 1st set...but i think that had more to do w/ Keys forcing her to be in defensive positions w/ her overwhelming power and accuracy

in the 2nd set, Serena maintained her level and Keys' level did drop, but you got the sense that if Serena's wasn't so strong...that the 2nd set would be a tussle as well

it came down to 2nd serve returns and playing the big points well...which is what Serena did better than Keys

but i don't think ANYONE other than Serena would have won that 1st set the way that Keys was playing on her serve and return...Serena had to pretty much earn the win and she knew that

and i thought that was Keys' best performance of the match...the amount of power she has is actually scary...and when she's on...she's unplayable...and not even Serena can stop that

Keys' level in her match against Petra was def worse and Petra could have won that match...but I don't think Petra would've won against Keys' level with Serena...and honestly, I don't think Petra would've won against Serena if they met in the SF...w/ the way Serena was serving and how crappy Petra's ROS is

Excelscior
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:08 PM
i saw the match...not sure if i agree w/ this :lol:

in the 1st set, i actually felt Keys came out blazing, over hitting and overpowering Serena...Keys was clearly the one dictating...the only blip came when she had lost her one service game after she had broken Serena in the 1st game...otherwise, she would've and should've won that 1st set

i don't think Serena played poorly in that 1st set though...she came out sharp w/ her footwork and hitting aces galore...i know people are saying that Serena's ground game was below par in that 1st set...but i think that had more to do w/ Keys forcing her to be in defensive positions w/ her overwhelming power and accuracy

in the 2nd set, Serena maintained her level and Keys' level did drop, but you got the sense that if Serena's wasn't so strong...that the 2nd set would be a tussle as well

it came down to 2nd serve returns and playing the big points well...which is what Serena did better than Keys

but i don't think ANYONE other than Serena would have won that 1st set the way that Keys was playing on her serve and return...Serena had to pretty much earn the win and she knew that

and i thought that was Keys' best performance of the match...the amount of power she has is actually scary...and when she's on...she's unplayable...and not even Serena can stop that

Keys' level in her match against Petra was def worse and Petra could have won that match...but I don't think Petra would've won against Keys' level with Serena...and honestly, I don't think Petra would've won against Serena if they met in the SF...w/ the way Serena was serving and how crappy Petra's ROS is

I didn't catch the early part of the first set.

But if you Keys was playing as great as you say, that only makes things worse for Kvitova earlier loss, cause even you said Keys wasn't playing this good vs Petra.

Nonetheless, Serena found a way to prevail, even when in your own eyes, Keys was playing better today than against Kvitova. Still makes Petra look bad.

What I saw; neither one of them played great in the 1st set, and Keys level fell off during the 2nd (of course there were good shots, here and there, and keys led in winners during the first as I originally noted. However, she still had more errors than winners).

The reason, why I would still give Petra the benefit of the doubt vs Keys if playing well, is 2nd serves. Key's second serve, like most players, is not that great. And that's what Serena took advantage of. Keys also made several errors in the front court, and on the run as well. I think, Petra's better in those two areas as well.

Yeah, Serena has about 13 aces, but they were many times her own serve looked a bit shaky, as when she was serving for the match with 69Kph 2nd serves, till she manage to rebound with some better ones.

Don't think Serena's level has been that high this tournament IMHO (lets not forget some of her shaky matches and sets, against Pedestrian opponents). And for that, Petra should be equally disappointed.

Power Shot
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:10 PM
Actually, Madison has a rather strong 2nd serve.

Excelscior
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:18 PM
Actually, Madison has a rather strong 2nd serve.

I saw 142 kph 2nd serves from Keys (which are not bad 2nd serves), where Serena was making hay.

However, Petra's 2nd serves (besides their variety and placement) clock in around or above 160 kph.

I know some of us been Hyping Madison here a lot on her Aussie Run; granted. But I don't think you would compare Keys 2nd serve to Petra's (especially the past several months).

It'll be curious to see what Keys does on the tour, between now and the summer American Hardcourt Season? She's certainly made her mark at the Aussie Open. But things have a funny way of happening, once you have expectations, and/or you got to play out the rest of the season. In other words, you can't necessarily compare how she looks in the Aussie Open, as she will in her next 3-5 tournaments (or even the French and Wimby). We'll see?

Luckily, she's got Lindsay in her corner, and I think that's a great benefit, than having the usual mid tier coach with out much big time experience.

Power Shot
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:24 PM
Just as a point of reference, someone said "you'd love him too if he brought you 2 Slam titles, a YEC and millions of dollars" in response to me calling Kotzya an idiot.

Excelscior
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:28 PM
Just as a point of reference, someone said "you'd love him too if he brought you 2 Slam titles, a YEC and millions of dollars" in response to me calling Kotzya an idiot.

Some one said that here, or to you on Twitter, etc.?

Obviously, everything's relative.

And we can kill Kotyza ad nauseum indeed. But, it all depends on Petra's satisfaction level. And I think we all know, how low her standards may be for herself (compared to most other champions). Petra's a nice girl, who didn't even take Tennis seriously early in her life. She's not like most of the other top girls (or even the mid-tier ones). This has all been, basically a nice ride and relative surprise for her. :shrug:

Now, someone else with Petra talent, may not be satisfied with what she has achieved with Kotyza. Hell, another coach besides Kotyza, would not be satisfied with what Petra's achieved or themselves. :lol:

Unless, she matures, and/or gets outside help (sounds like we been saying this for years), not sure Petra will ever be greedy for Slams; even Wimbledon's. Remember, it took her watching Li Na winning the French (who coincidentally Petra, coulda, shoulda beat there) in 2011. And it took, Petra losing to Flipkens in 2013, for her to really think about winning Wimby (despite losing in semi's to Serena in 2010), or being determined to win it again after losing to Flipkens. It's almost like Petra doesn't value her opportunities like so many other mid-level, mind you top players. And that's just the greed part. She still needs to get her game, and mentality together, when she faces challenges (as Tennisaddict like to point out) during Majors. It appears like she gets scared, and loses the plot. I guess, that's where determination, and "will to win" should take over?

Nonetheless, to each his own.

Power Shot
Jan 29th, 2015, 04:33 PM
Some one said that here, or to you on Twitter, etc.?

Non-Genie tennis thread in her subforum.

steni
Jan 29th, 2015, 06:34 PM
tennisaddict are you serious? Serena was barely moving :lol: if it wasn't for her serve she would be history by now. some poster said she is still recovering from the flu, off the ground she played like shit, both Petra and Venus failed with their serves.

TennisAddict84
Jan 29th, 2015, 06:47 PM
tennisaddict are you serious? Serena was barely moving :lol: if it wasn't for her serve she would be history by now. some poster said she is still recovering from the flu, off the ground she played like shit, both Petra and Venus failed with their serves.

you felt like she didn't move well in the match? it seemed fine to me...IMO, i think it was more Keys' weight of shot that kept on pushing Serena back behind the bl...i actually thought Serena did well to defend those blows

yeah, she was still coughing, but it didn't look like her performance was affected :shrug:

I do agree w/ the Venus match...she played just like Petra...had so many opportunities to win after breaking, but then would just give the break back...and Keys wasn't nearly playing as well in that round

TennisAddict84
Jan 29th, 2015, 06:54 PM
Some one said that here, or to you on Twitter, etc.?

Obviously, everything's relative.

And we can kill Kotyza ad nauseum indeed. But, it all depends on Petra's satisfaction level. And I think we all know, how low her standards may be for herself (compared to most other champions). Petra's a nice girl, who didn't even take Tennis seriously early in her life. She's not like most of the other top girls (or even the mid-tier ones). This has all been, basically a nice ride and relative surprise for her. :shrug:

Now, someone else with Petra talent, may not be satisfied with what she has achieved with Kotyza. Hell, another coach besides Kotyza, would not be satisfied with what Petra's achieved or themselves. :lol:

Unless, she matures, and/or gets outside help (sounds like we been saying this for years), not sure Petra will ever be greedy for Slams; even Wimbledon's. Remember, it took her watching Li Na winning the French (who coincidentally Petra, coulda, shoulda beat there) in 2011. And it took, Petra losing to Flipkens in 2013, for her to really think about winning Wimby (despite losing in semi's to Serena in 2010), or being determined to win it again after losing to Flipkens. It's almost like Petra doesn't value her opportunities like so many other mid-level, mind you top players. And that's just the greed part. She still needs to get her game, and mentality together, when she faces challenges (as Tennisaddict like to point out) during Majors. It appears like she gets scared, and loses the plot. I guess, that's where determination, and "will to win" should take over?

Nonetheless, to each his own.

Petra's will to win and mental strength is just not on the same level as Serena, Maria...Serena could be on half a leg and she'll still win 80% of the matches because of how mentally strong she is...Petra just doesn't have that...when things get tough...she can never quite cross the finish line

Power Shot
Jan 29th, 2015, 06:56 PM
Madison's weight of shot was definitely the reason why Serena looked like she was pushing, when, in reality, she was being overpowered.

TennisAddict84
Jan 29th, 2015, 07:02 PM
Madison's weight of shot was definitely the reason why Serena looked like she was pushing, when, in reality, she was being overpowered.

yeah, Serena actually almost fell to the ground at one point trying to get back one of Madison's FH :lol:

steni
Jan 29th, 2015, 07:24 PM
you felt like she didn't move well in the match? it seemed fine to me...IMO, i think it was more Keys' weight of shot that kept on pushing Serena back behind the bl...i actually thought Serena did well to defend those blows

yeah, she was still coughing, but it didn't look like her performance was affected :shrug:

I do agree w/ the Venus match...she played just like Petra...had so many opportunities to win after breaking, but then would just give the break back...and Keys wasn't nearly playing as well in that round

i think she moves better than that, s. williams isn't playing that great in this tournament.

also that keys mto when venus was about to serve with a 4-1 lead, than her limping everytime she was losing a point or first serve, than running like rabbit, and yesterday she looked so fresh :lol:

steni
Jan 29th, 2015, 07:28 PM
Petra's will to win and mental strength is just not on the same level as Serena, Maria...Serena could be on half a leg and she'll still win 80% of the matches because of how mentally strong she is...Petra just doesn't have that...when things get tough...she can never quite cross the finish line

i think she does but its rare to see cause she normally doesnt give a fuck :lol:

Excelscior
Jan 30th, 2015, 12:58 AM
tennisaddict are you serious? Serena was barely moving :lol: if it wasn't for her serve she would be history by now. some poster said she is still recovering from the flu, off the ground she played like shit, both Petra and Venus failed with their serves.

Yeah, Bill Mcatee on Tennis Channel this morning, mentioned Serena being potentially compromised, and recovering. And from what I saw she played like it at times, and various other times this tournament.

For example/The Svitolina match. I'm not exactly sure how Serena lost a set there, cause Svitolina looked like she brought water pistols to a Machine Gun Fight. And I was sitting there wondering, how the hell Serena lost a set, and fell behind in another set to this girl. I know, Svitovlina can be tricky. But not that night. SMH

FWIW: I'm not disappointed Petra lost. I'm not even disappointment she lost to a young Madison Keys during the third rd at a major.

What disappoints me the most (as Synth mentioned previously), was that Petra was woeful/God Awful. It's that simple!

The Petra Kvitova that we were all watching the past several months (minus the YEC), was not the Petra Kvitova that turned up the third rd of the Australian Open agaisnt Keys.

Neither we, nor the audience watching got to see that Petra Kvitova from the opening moments. That woman was a total imposter. That's what hurts the most. On the biggest stage for all the world to see....And Petra lays a serious Egg; again! We've all seen Petra play Serena, Masha, Pliskova (the latter two recently), and look better than this; win or lose. Was that the lasting impression you wanted leave with the audience Petra? :eek:

We may forget this, because of Petra's recent dreadful Aussie Open performance. However, Petra's serve was bordering on (if it wasn't already), the best in the business. She was routinely serving 7-12 aces a match, and her second serve was as effective; sometimes deadly as ever. Yes, Petra ROS/aggressiveness, was always going to be up and down, frustrating us to high heaven no doubt. :lol: But even then, she'd eventually buckle down, and break someone when she needed to (especially on their 2nd serves, BP's, after numerous opportunities). But it wasn't meant to be in either scenario (Petra holding serve, or breaking Keys when needed).

Of course the American media will big Keys up (and rightfully so/great talent), and couldn't careless whether Petra played well or not. But that just makes the feeling worse. As Petra, I'm sure never considered any of these things as she laid her big egg (though she got the annoying questions at the press conferences ad nauseum regarding Keys anyway).

As it's been said here many times; give Keys credit. No one wants to take away from her play. But at the same time, she made mistakes and gave Petra various opportunities, Ludmilla's woeful serving and equally horrid ROS couldn't take advantage of. :lol: Don't you want to go down swinging (throw in mentality, if/when the other stuff doesn't work) at the Slams Petra!? :help: :lol: :help:

Whether it was the late night start/spotlight. Whether she was tired, or just didn't have it for whatever reason. Who knows? :shrug: It just appears, Petra can only play so many matches leading into a Grand Slam, before she lays a serious egg. Doesn't matter, how well she was playing previously it appears? It's either that, or she just freaks out and loses the plot, as soon as an "underdog" makes her think early during Slams? What a listless performance. There's just no other way to say it. And both Petra and her ahem "team" were clueless.

Well, she and her ahem "team", need some serious answers, if they really wanna overcome this before waiting for Petra to eventually go on some "magical" non Wimby Slam run, God Knows when in the future?

Synth
Jan 30th, 2015, 02:15 AM
I watched the Keys-Serena match. It was good. Madison is a very good player, and a very dangerous opponent. She has the ability to take charge of rallies and finish them which is a rarity on the tour, and I have full confidence she'll win a slam one day. However, she is young, and that showed in her matches vs Petra, Venus, and Serena.

I will agree that she played better against Serena than she did against Petra, but she still wasn't good enough for a top player, the way I expect Serena, Vika, Maria to be. She doesn't the consistency that the top players have, and she doesn't have a sense of the flow of the match, i.e. which points/games are crucial, which is why she lost many of the important points. The fact that she saved 8 match points indicates that she has the ability to come up big when it matters, but the fact that she didn't do it in a lot of the other important points makes me believe she doesn't know yet which points are turning points in the match and which ones are not. That comes with experience.

I don't think Madison in the first set was unplayable. Serena played pretty poorly overall compared to what she's capable of- but she played many of the important points really well. Madison is definitely still emerging as a player and should be regularly thumped by the current top players if they bring their A-game. She needs another year or so to cook, imo.

I think that the improvement in Petra's fitness level is causing too great an expectation in her results. There are still many other facets of Kvitova's game that she needs to fix. Her entire Aussie run was not without it's problems even though she won a title and made SF at another one. Before everyone was so focused on her fitness that some of the other more problematic matters were overshadowed. Now that her fitness is much improved, there's two other big things that I think she really needs to work on.

1. ROS. This has always been a problem. It's either a screaming winner, or it's in the stands. That's not okay. Even on second serves, it's horribly inconsistent and unreliable. She does better on first serve returns than second serve returns for some reason. She really needs to take advance of the woeful serving of many of the other players.
2. In Match Adjustments. She needs to learn how to identify what is working in her game in a given match and adjust accordingly. No more of this hitting herself out of the tournament nonsense. She can play with margin, she just doesn't know when.

These were problems even before the AO. The difference in the R3 match was that she had a bad serving day. That's it. Her returning was about as bad as it has been all January. Her lack of adjustment is why she lost to Bacsinsky in Shenzhen. When Petra's serve goes- she loses her main weapon, and then she's very very breakable and complete pants at breaking herself which is a bad combination. She's gotta learn how to win when the serve is not on. Until she learns how to do that, she'll never be a top player in the same echelon as Maria, Serena, Vika. (Yes, I consider Vika overall a better player than Petra). As we've said a million times. She has the tools, it's just implementation. Until she fixes these things, I don't see her getting past R4 outside of Wimbledon anytime soon. Who knows? Maybe in Dubai she'll show us a ROS that's actually playable.

ETA: A younger Venus would've wiped the floor with Madison, that match, I thought Venus' age and disease really shone through. It was a pity. Some very nice moments in that match.

Excelscior
Jan 30th, 2015, 03:42 AM
I watched the Keys-Serena match. It was good. Madison is a very good player, and a very dangerous opponent. She has the ability to take charge of rallies and finish them which is a rarity on the tour, and I have full confidence she'll win a slam one day. However, she is young, and that showed in her matches vs Petra, Venus, and Serena.

I will agree that she played better against Serena than she did against Petra, but she still wasn't good enough for a top player, the way I expect Serena, Vika, Maria to be. She doesn't the consistency that the top players have, and she doesn't have a sense of the flow of the match, i.e. which points/games are crucial, which is why she lost many of the important points. The fact that she saved 8 match points indicates that she has the ability to come up big when it matters, but the fact that she didn't do it in a lot of the other important points makes me believe she doesn't know yet which points are turning points in the match and which ones are not. That comes with experience.

I don't think Madison in the first set was unplayable. Serena played pretty poorly overall compared to what she's capable of- but she played many of the important points really well. Madison is definitely still emerging as a player and should be regularly thumped by the current top players if they bring their A-game. She needs another year or so to cook, imo.

I think that the improvement in Petra's fitness level is causing too great an expectation in her results. There are still many other facets of Kvitova's game that she needs to fix. Her entire Aussie run was not without it's problems even though she won a title and made SF at another one. Before everyone was so focused on her fitness that some of the other more problematic matters were overshadowed. Now that her fitness is much improved, there's two other big things that I think she really needs to work on.

1. ROS. This has always been a problem. It's either a screaming winner, or it's in the stands. That's not okay. Even on second serves, it's horribly inconsistent and unreliable. She does better on first serve returns than second serve returns for some reason. She really needs to take advance of the woeful serving of many of the other players.
2. In Match Adjustments. She needs to learn how to identify what is working in her game in a given match and adjust accordingly. No more of this hitting herself out of the tournament nonsense. She can play with margin, she just doesn't know when.

These were problems even before the AO. The difference in the R3 match was that she had a bad serving day. That's it. Her returning was about as bad as it has been all January. Her lack of adjustment is why she lost to Bacsinsky in Shenzhen. When Petra's serve goes- she loses her main weapon, and then she's very very breakable and complete pants at breaking herself which is a bad combination. She's gotta learn how to win when the serve is not on. Until she learns how to do that, she'll never be a top player in the same echelon as Maria, Serena, Vika. (Yes, I consider Vika overall a better player than Petra). As we've said a million times. She has the tools, it's just implementation. Until she fixes these things, I don't see her getting past R4 outside of Wimbledon anytime soon. Who knows? Maybe in Dubai she'll show us a ROS that's actually playable.

ETA: A younger Venus would've wiped the floor with Madison, that match, I thought Venus' age and disease really shone through. It was a pity. Some very nice moments in that match.

Can agree with everything you said, except the Vika comments. :yeah:

Vika may be an overall better competitor, and more consistent than Petra when playing well. However, I feel she's two steps back on the talent meter, and needs to be playing at her absolute best in order to compete for titles.

Unfortunately, Vika's dedication is not what it used to be, thus not making her such a threat as her talent level (lack of serve, finishing shot, less power than the big guns, etc.) doesn't allow her to win tournaments if she's not playing very well, and/or feeling very confident. That's the really the big difference between the two. Petra can more win at anytime, out the blue of the two.

For this reason, I feel Petra will always be a better player than Vika, though she may lack Vika's day in day out consistency when she's playing well. In reality, Vika hasn't been playing well for a while quite honestly. So we usually give her more credit than she deserves. And look at her current ranking? It's not all injuries. Vika, just doesn't appear as dedicated.

Petra with all her "struggles", "inconsistencies", and "disappoints" labelled by fans and media, has managed to stay in the top 10 the past 5 seasons. Vika, doesn't have the type of talent, to be that "disappointing", while remaining in the top 10. Her game was way to repetitive and fine tuned for that, even when she was at her best. I just have too many lasting memories, of Vika looking virtually helpless for various periods in some of their most recent matches (albeit three seasons ago), and I don't think that would have changed much in 2012, late 2014, or early 2015. Vika brings a Pea Shooter to a Gun fight.

Eh. Vika, just never struck me as a true #1 type player. I always looked at her as a Stand in, place Holder, or Wozniaki 2.0 type TBH. Nonetheless, to each his own, and I respect your thoughts and opinions.

Synth
Jan 30th, 2015, 05:28 AM
Vika may be an overall better competitor, and more consistent than Petra when playing well. However, I feel she's two steps back on the talent meter, and needs to be playing at her absolute best in order to compete for titles.

Unfortunately, Vika's dedication is not what it used to be, thus not making her such a threat as her talent level (lack of serve, finishing shot, less power than the big guns, etc.) doesn't allow her to win tournaments if she's not playing very well, and/or feeling very confident. That's the really the big difference between the two. Petra can more win at anytime, out the blue of the two.

For this reason, I feel Petra will always be a better player than Vika, though she may lack Vika's day in day out consistency when she's playing well. In reality, Vika hasn't been playing well for a while quite honestly. So we usually give her more credit than she deserves. And look at her current ranking? It's not all injuries. Vika, just doesn't appear as dedicated.

Petra with all her "struggles", "inconsistencies", and "disappoints" labelled by fans and media, has managed to stay in the top 10 the past 5 seasons. Vika, doesn't have the type of talent, to be that "disappointing", while remaining in the top 10. Her game was way to repetitive and fine tuned for that, even when she was at her best. I just have too many lasting memories, of Vika looking virtually helpless for various periods in some of their most recent matches (albeit three seasons ago), and I don't think that would have changed much in 2012, late 2014, or early 2015. Vika brings a Pea Shooter to a Gun fight.

Eh. Vika, just never struck me as a true #1 type player. I always looked at her as a Stand in, place Holder, or Wozniaki 2.0 type TBH. Nonetheless, to each his own, and I respect your thoughts and opinions.

Always nice to hear your thoughts, Ex. :)

I think very few people would disagree about Petra's 100% ability being higher than Vika's, probably even her 80% ability. She has significantly more talent, but it only shows up once every few months- I still haven't figured out why or when Petra will show up- the only constants being great Wimbledon and being awful at the USO. There's a huge laundry list of things that Petra doesn't like: humidity, heat, cold, wind, night, etc that's a bit ridiculous for a top player. What I respect about Vika (and Woz, though I think Vika is better than Woz) is that however limited people may consider her talent, her drive and willingness to fight for the win regardless of the conditions led her to pretty remarkable run of tournaments in the early 2010s. She also has better results than Woz because she's way more willing to be aggressive- like Kerber or Halep, but better- may not have HUGE weapons but has good anticipation, defense, consistency, and the willingness to take the killshot when the opening arises. Vika is better at creating those openings than Kerber/Halep, and her ROS at the top of her game is remarkable.

The reason I cut Vika a lot of slack is because she's making the most of her potential, whereas I am harder on Petra because I think she's barely scratched the surface of what she is capable of. IMO, a player with her weapons, to be in the top 10 in the past 5 seasons is underachieving. The way I see it, Petra is so good that half assing her last few seasons with terrible fitness, no ROS, etc she can still maintain a top 10 berth- the girl has a ton of weapons. When she is on, it's pretty magnificent, I could watch her Wimbledon final against Bouchard over and over and over again. When she's off, I question myself why I stayed up till 6 AM to watch Petra dick around on the court for two and a half hours to lose/barely win in three sets to some scrub who can't get a first serve in play. lol. The Petracoaster.

steni
Jan 30th, 2015, 07:08 AM
Syth, Petra is like a box of chocolates :lol: you never know what are you gonna get. I used to question myself too and its a bummer to get up so early and watch Shitra but its hard to tell how she is gonna play too so thats why I always get up early anyways :lol:

I think Azarenka is talented, her serve is not that great but her ROS is one of the best, and the difference with Petra to me is that she doesnt beat herself and that's something Petra hasnt learn for some reason.

Excelscior
Jan 30th, 2015, 02:10 PM
Always nice to hear your thoughts, Ex. :)

I think very few people would disagree about Petra's 100% ability being higher than Vika's, probably even her 80% ability. She has significantly more talent, but it only shows up once every few months- I still haven't figured out why or when Petra will show up- the only constants being great Wimbledon and being awful at the USO. There's a huge laundry list of things that Petra doesn't like: humidity, heat, cold, wind, night, etc that's a bit ridiculous for a top player. What I respect about Vika (and Woz, though I think Vika is better than Woz) is that however limited people may consider her talent, her drive and willingness to fight for the win regardless of the conditions led her to pretty remarkable run of tournaments in the early 2010s. She also has better results than Woz because she's way more willing to be aggressive- like Kerber or Halep, but better- may not have HUGE weapons but has good anticipation, defense, consistency, and the willingness to take the killshot when the opening arises. Vika is better at creating those openings than Kerber/Halep, and her ROS at the top of her game is remarkable.

The reason I cut Vika a lot of slack is because she's making the most of her potential, whereas I am harder on Petra because I think she's barely scratched the surface of what she is capable of. IMO, a player with her weapons, to be in the top 10 in the past 5 seasons is underachieving. The way I see it, Petra is so good that half assing her last few seasons with terrible fitness, no ROS, etc she can still maintain a top 10 berth- the girl has a ton of weapons. When she is on, it's pretty magnificent, I could watch her Wimbledon final against Bouchard over and over and over again. When she's off, I question myself why I stayed up till 6 AM to watch Petra dick around on the court for two and a half hours to lose/barely win in three sets to some scrub who can't get a first serve in play. lol. The Petracoaster.

All well said my friend. All well said! :clap2: :yeah: :clap2:

Can't argue with anything there.

If I had to say one thing: Vika's serve was always her undoing (yes, we know she didn't necessarily have a kill shot, or Na, Rena, even Sharapova ball striking ability either, nor elite speed or athleticism, etc.). At best it was adequate and protected her from the other top players. So we gotta give her credit for that, and the high ranking and success she achieved indeed. Big ups, and Bravo to Vikasaurus for that.

However, when it wasn't working well (particularly her 2nd serve), she could look pretty ordinary pretty fast. Sometimes even helpless to me. And that's one of the things that always bugged me about her game (since you explained yourself so well, no need for me to get into the other stuff). :lol:

As stated/to your credit, you explained quite well why you feel the way you do about both Vika and Petra. So I can't argue. And yes, though Petra's been in the top 10 since 2011, for the most part she's been quite an underachiever (which is also an indicator of her untapped talent as well). Yes! Petra's been skating!

BTW: Did you ever watch her YEC run from 2011 (since you brought up the recent Wimby final)? I'm not sure if I still do, since I haven't watched in a while. But I used to think it was the best Petra's played. Certainly as enjoyable to watch as her two Wimby title runs.

Petra's, combination of power, defense, defense to offense, shot making, and repeated front court/net game was a sight to see. This prompted Radwanska's longtime coach to describe her as a rare Next Generation player combining power, serving and fine front court/skills net play (or something like that). Lol

From an all court tennis perspective, she was excellent and so exciting. Seemingly combining her various facets into high level (though not perfect) , effective Tennis. That's what had many excited for 2012.

hellokvitty
Jan 30th, 2015, 02:22 PM
Syth, Petra is like a box of chocolates :lol: you never know what are you gonna get. I used to question myself too and its a bummer to get up so early and watch Shitra but its hard to tell how she is gonna play too so thats why I always get up early anyways :lol:

I think Azarenka is talented, her serve is not that great but her ROS is one of the best, and the difference with Petra to me is that she doesnt beat herself and that's something Petra hasnt learn for some reason.

DVR Petra's matches. If Goatra makes an appearance, I watch it. If Shitra shows up, I'm glad I slept through it. :lol:

TennisAddict84
Jan 30th, 2015, 06:04 PM
Always nice to hear your thoughts, Ex. :)

I think very few people would disagree about Petra's 100% ability being higher than Vika's, probably even her 80% ability. She has significantly more talent, but it only shows up once every few months- I still haven't figured out why or when Petra will show up- the only constants being great Wimbledon and being awful at the USO. There's a huge laundry list of things that Petra doesn't like: humidity, heat, cold, wind, night, etc that's a bit ridiculous for a top player. What I respect about Vika (and Woz, though I think Vika is better than Woz) is that however limited people may consider her talent, her drive and willingness to fight for the win regardless of the conditions led her to pretty remarkable run of tournaments in the early 2010s. She also has better results than Woz because she's way more willing to be aggressive- like Kerber or Halep, but better- may not have HUGE weapons but has good anticipation, defense, consistency, and the willingness to take the killshot when the opening arises. Vika is better at creating those openings than Kerber/Halep, and her ROS at the top of her game is remarkable.

The reason I cut Vika a lot of slack is because she's making the most of her potential, whereas I am harder on Petra because I think she's barely scratched the surface of what she is capable of. IMO, a player with her weapons, to be in the top 10 in the past 5 seasons is underachieving. The way I see it, Petra is so good that half assing her last few seasons with terrible fitness, no ROS, etc she can still maintain a top 10 berth- the girl has a ton of weapons. When she is on, it's pretty magnificent, I could watch her Wimbledon final against Bouchard over and over and over again. When she's off, I question myself why I stayed up till 6 AM to watch Petra dick around on the court for two and a half hours to lose/barely win in three sets to some scrub who can't get a first serve in play. lol. The Petracoaster.

Great post! :worship:

Excelscior
Jan 31st, 2015, 01:49 PM
[/B]

Great post! :worship:

In fairness to Petra, since we like to pick on her so much (me included): She's always insisted it's the "humidity" she hates and not the heat. And she used to do well in the Aussie Open (2011, 2012), as well as play well in Desert Dubai and Doha, etc., to back this up notion.

Ironically, she's done well in smog ravaged China the past few years (though, Paulmara did tell us, Petra has better inhalers recently). And she's seemingly done well everywhere in Northern North America (including Canada, Cincy, New Haven), except NY. Miami/Coral Gable's, another story! :eek:

Petra's, also seem to have no problem with the wind recently. Many of the tournaments she played in Wuhan, Shenzhen and Sydney were in windy environments, and she made it to the semi-finals, finals, and/or won. Most of us, didn't mention the conditions, cause she handled them so well (including her serve through out). She also made it to the finals of Eastbourne in 2011 (albeit losing in crazy wind). But she still made the finals. So I think the "wind" is more something that people tried to justify, when they were claiming Petra's an "indoor only Queen", which was really a silly notion when you thought about it.

Let's face it. All stereotypes of Petra Kvitova, are both true and untrue. :lol:

Honestly, they seem to change with her mood, and latest excuse; just like the "ahem" wind. :tape:

Excelscior
Jan 31st, 2015, 03:55 PM
To be honest: One of the reasons why I was so disappointed when Petra lost to Keys, was Chris Evert and the insufferable ESPN crew. Okay, I said it/Full Disclosure. :lol:

Evert picked Keys to beat Petra. And IMHO, she didn't pick Keys for no other reason than to pick against Petra. It's not like you could have picked Keys on form entering the tournament. Petra, was playing great, right? :oh:

Of course, Evert seemingly always picks against Petra (she always has a notion or a hunch, someone she likes is going to beat her) on a moments notice. And it appears, it's because she can't live down those two beat downs Petra placed on her dear Sharapova and Bouchard in those Wimby Finals. Ironically, both Evert and Gilbert, were talking about how great Petra is/could be, and the amount of majors she could win etc., but Evert still picked against her with no explanation. That's so annoying (especially from Evert). :help:

So what does Petra do? She's goes out and promptly loses to Keys, with out putting up any of the skills or fight we been watching from her the past several months (sans the YEC of course). Arrggh! :banghead: :smash: :banghead:

The reason why I brought this up?....Had to watch the Aussie Open final with the sound down of course, which reminded me of the Kvitova vs Keys match. Chrissie, and even Mary Joe, can be so annoying.

Once again, blown opportunity by Petra, as I felt Rena was pretty average-by her standards-most of this tournament. Nonetheless, congratulations to Rena, and her 19th Major title! :cheer: It's like smoke and mirrors to be most time. But hey, that's the state of the WTA, and her ahem "toughest" competitors.

Petra's just not ready for the true big time it appears anyway. And who knows what's up with Azarenka and Halep? Sharapova tried. But you can just tell, she's always going to be mentally beaten by Serena, and not win that big, biggest of points when it counts the most. As it's been said; Champions are mental!

Speaking about that: Go get your mental game together Kvitova by hiring a real coach and/or advisor, instead of "dicking" around (that word was in honor of Synth's excellent earlier rant/post) with that silly mental coach you been using for the past several years! Neither he, nor Kotyza are going to take you where you need to go right now! That's up to you, or a REAL Tennis Expert with big time Major experience.

Power Shot
Jan 31st, 2015, 04:03 PM
I don't even know what to say after attempting to read all of this :lol:

steni
Jan 31st, 2015, 11:12 PM
^ Excelscior another thing that we havent discuss (i dont know if you guys talk about it before) is Petra's game on slow surfaces, she said US Open is slow, when was the last time Federer won the US Open? Im not sure if Petra's game can work well on this surfaces. What do you think?

Excelscior
Feb 1st, 2015, 07:35 AM
^ Excelscior another thing that we havent discuss (i dont know if you guys talk about it before) is Petra's game on slow surfaces, she said US Open is slow, when was the last time Federer won the US Open? Im not sure if Petra's game can work well on this surfaces. What do you think?

Well, this year, the Australian Open was reportedly fast for a change, and though she played an excellent third rd opponent, she still lost. :lol:

The New Haven surface, is the exact same surface as in the US Open, and Petra wins there, but loses in NY.

Krunic, like Keys played well enough. But if we're going to give that excuse for Petra every time she faces a tougher or well playing opponent in the earlier rounds at majors, then what the hell does she have that ranking for? Most top ranked players should find a way to win in those earlier rounds? As you and others said earlier, that's the difference between Petra and Azarenka. Vika (and even Bouchard), will beat the people who she/they should beat. Unfortunately, we haven't got that with Petra at majors on a consistent basis for a while.

To more directly answer your question: I don't see why not!? She used to (play well on all surfaces). I think it's more mental now with Petra. And of course, both Sharapova and Serena have upped their game on the slower surfaces. But Petra's not even getting to them lately, unfortunately. Petra's game is more than all surface capable (particularly slower hard courts). She just needs better confidence, tactics, and counter measures than she's displayed recently IMHO (particularly on clay). People like to bring up her lack of sliding on clay. Which she should do, and improve on certainly. However, we also have to remember, she wasn't sliding back in 2011 and 2012 on clay, when she had better results, level of play and opponents.

When you look at it really; Petra's Slam results have declined significantly the past 2-3 seasons, compared to 4-5 years ago? Now she's not coming close to making the semi's outside of Wimby, and losing to the likes of Kutnetsova in the third rd of the French Open, having disappointed fans or media think, it's somehow "okay" cause "Kuzzie" was a former champion there. :tape: :help: :tape:

Has Petra even come close to her 2011 Madrid title, and 2012 Stuttgart semi's level and results on clay even (albeit high altitude and indoors)? :shrug: I know Petra lost to Kerber in the Rome semi's the past few years, but unfortunately Petra had an abdominal injury, and couldn't play her best (though she had her chance to advance IMHO, if she was more game). Story of Petra's career, right?

In a nutshell: Petra has become the Outdoor Hard Court Queen recently (outside the majors of course), while she's appeared to have declined at/on clay surfaces (Major or not, unless I'm mistaken).

Power Shot
Feb 9th, 2015, 01:03 PM
With a rumor that Vika hired Pat Rafter, maybe he would be a candidate should the rumor not be true :shrug:

Synth
Feb 12th, 2015, 05:32 PM
To more directly answer your question: I don't see why not!? She used to (play well on all surfaces). I think it's more mental now with Petra. And of course, both Sharapova and Serena have upped their game on the slower surfaces. But Petra's not even getting to them lately, unfortunately. Petra's game is more than all surface capable (particularly slower hard courts). She just needs better confidence, tactics, and counter measures than she's displayed recently IMHO (particularly on clay). People like to bring up her lack of sliding on clay. Which she should do, and improve on certainly. However, we also have to remember, she wasn't sliding back in 2011 and 2012 on clay, when she had better results, level of play and opponents.


Well said. Petra has the skills to be competitive on every surface, she has a huge selection of shots to choose from which allows her to set up and construct a lot of different points and she has a variety of finishing shots as well. The two reasons she doesn't do well outside of Wimbledon, imo, are mental (this is huge for her), and poor shot selection. She doesn't adapt her game to the court that she's playing on- or her opponent- or her own level on a given day. She hasn't figured out yet how to solve an opponent when her initial game plan is not working.

TennisAddict84
Feb 12th, 2015, 06:06 PM
Well said. Petra has the skills to be competitive on every surface, she has a huge selection of shots to choose from which allows her to set up and construct a lot of different points and she has a variety of finishing shots as well. The two reasons she doesn't do well outside of Wimbledon, imo, are mental (this is huge for her), and poor shot selection. She doesn't adapt her game to the court that she's playing on- or her opponent- or her own level on a given day. She hasn't figured out yet how to solve an opponent when her initial game plan is not working.

the one shot still missing is the lob...she cannot for the life of her ever hit a defensive or offensive lob...every time I see her hit one...it always lands out :lol:

any one know why that is exactly? i'm thinking she just doesn't really practice that shot that often...

Excelscior
Feb 16th, 2015, 12:15 PM
Well said. Petra has the skills to be competitive on every surface, she has a huge selection of shots to choose from which allows her to set up and construct a lot of different points and she has a variety of finishing shots as well. The two reasons she doesn't do well outside of Wimbledon, imo, are mental (this is huge for her), and poor shot selection. She doesn't adapt her game to the court that she's playing on- or her opponent- or her own level on a given day. She hasn't figured out yet how to solve an opponent when her initial game plan is not working.

What you just said, comes down to COACHING, and or a bad student in Petra.

This reminds me, Kotyza stating right before the 2012 Aussie Open semi's, Petra was going to use the SAME GAME PLAN against Sharapova as 2011 Wimby! :help:

And it's not as if Kotyza doesn't think Petra's smart, or can do it. Cause, didn't he tell us years ago how bright she was when they first met? So that shouldn't be an excuse (unless he was lying). Of course, we know (based off what we've seen/not seen) neither of them are the most proactive or diligent folks off the court in finding the best people, assistance and tactics/strategy for Petra, mind you on the court.

What has she really learned the past few years, especially in majors? :scratch:

She consistently, loses to scrubs, up and comers, Has Been's, and people ranked below her at Slams, early.

Of course, the CONFIDENCE can come down to coaching, or not having the proper advisors and team who are supposed to build you up. We have that example as well from Kotyza, right before that same 2012 Aussie Open which would certainly make one question his motivational abilities and FEEL for managing a top young player (I've stated it many times here, when a Reporter asked Kotyza, "is Petra Kvitova The Best Player In The world", and his woeful, eye brow raising response). The man is just not big time. And it shows/has been displayed many times!

You're right! Petra has just not improved at the rate or level many expected after her break out 2011 season. We were hoping, this one would be her next. And maybe it will be; we hope? However, the 2015 Aussie Open was certainly a poor, disappointing start (Lupojohn, and his Madison Keys Worship, I mean love be damned). :lol::lol:

Good Luck Ms. Petra!!

TennisFed
Feb 17th, 2015, 03:47 PM
Petra needs to dump David Kotyza. All good Points what excelsior made. Why did Vika get to No 1. Because she had some real Coaches like someone called Sam Sumyk.

Excelscior
Feb 20th, 2015, 02:01 PM
Petra needs to dump David Kotyza. All good Points what excelsior made. Why did Vika get to No 1. Because she had some real Coaches like someone called Sam Sumyk.

Thanks for the Name Drop. But you're right. :angel:

Petra had long outgrown Kotyza, and he's been in over his head for years now since 2011.

I won't go into the major flubs he committed (Czech Extraliga Dec 2011 injury; catching cold in Cold As Czech Republic between early 2012 tournaments; Perplexing Sharapova strategy Aussie 2012 Open, ; local Czech Doc for continued allergy problems seemingly forever), etc., between the end of the season 2011 to the summer of 2012.

The guy has no backbone either. I know he wants, needs the gig probably? But you would think after all the frustration Petra has given him, by not always listening to his instruction and not wanting to do more repetitive tasks-such as hit with a male hitting partner on a regular basis, he would have left.

Nope. The guy has no backbone indeed. Most top flyte coaches, would have given Petra an ultimatum and left by now (if not let go already). This is one of the reasons why players change coaches so often (don't get along; reached an impasse; no more improvement; can't get along, etc.);

Unfortunately, Petra appears to value comfortability and friendliness over desire to win and improving her game!!?? :eek: :help: :eek:

Great coaching, can do wonders for a player who has the talent, but may not have the ultimate desire, in game management, or general mental capacity to execute at their fullest/near fullest on a regular basis, especially in the big moments and slams.

steni
Feb 20th, 2015, 11:19 PM
^ he actually gave Petra an ultimatum about Stepanek :lol:

Power Shot
Feb 20th, 2015, 11:36 PM
^ he actually gave Petra an ultimatum about Stepanek :lol:

Who, Kotzya? If so, only good thing he's ever done.

TennisAddict84
Feb 20th, 2015, 11:39 PM
^ he actually gave Petra an ultimatum about Stepanek :lol:

for real?

TennisAddict84
Feb 20th, 2015, 11:39 PM
he should give petra an ultimatum about winning :lol:

steni
Feb 24th, 2015, 01:08 PM
for real?

yeah! someone posted an interview with Kotyza and apparently he blamed Stepanek for Petra's poor play :lol: and I think Stepanek said something about it in the press as well. My guess is that Kotyza didnt like Stepanek trying to butt in :lol:

*Jack*
Feb 25th, 2015, 05:19 AM
yeah! someone posted an interview with Kotyza and apparently he blamed Stepanek for Petra's poor play :lol: and I think Stepanek said something about it in the press as well. My guess is that Kotyza didnt like Stepanek trying to butt in :lol:
He had to freak out when Vseticek's work started to bring the success :oh: because he knows he's useless. :rolleyes: :lol: