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liuxuan
Nov 19th, 2012, 11:11 PM
:devil: its off season so lets just embrace it!

two absolute fighters who both had amazing success despite having certain limitations when compared to their biggest rivals - capriati's serve wasn't anywhere near the weapon when compared to Serena, Venus and Lindsay, while maria's athleticism isnt anything compared with serena, venus, henin or kim

HOWEVER they both are multiple grand slam champions, #1 players who showed a lot of heart and fight on the court, as much in defeat as in victory

Personally, I think, peak vs peak on a grand slam stage, its Jennifer in 3 in Melbourne, Paris and New York. Maria in 2 at Wimbledon.

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Maria would win. Jennifer wasnt that good, lets be honest. She is to be admired for her great fightback to winning 3 slams against all odds, and she was one of the most precocious 15 years old ever, but other than Serena, post prime Hingis, and the vastly overrated Mary Pierce, she was every top players bitch of both her eras. Some people think she is better than she is due to her rivalry with Serena who she admirably pushed so hard which isnt easy to do obviously, and her amazing U.S Open semi with Seles decades ago as a precocious 15 year old, but other than those two things she otherwise falls well short in the realm of any player with 3 or more slams. 3 things really stand out with Capriati:

1. Her astonishingly poor H2H records vs top players for a 3 slam winner as mentioned.

2. Her extremly low winner tallies vs top players, especialy for someone we are told is supposed to be this huge "power" player. Against Venus she often played matches with only 4 winners. Against Elena Dementieva of all people she got outwinnered 41-11 in her last U.S Open semifinal. Against Davenport she usually had only single digit winners. And so on.

3. Her shocking lack of overall success for a 3 slam winner. Will we ever see a 3 slam winner who wins only 14 tournaments ever again. A 3 slam winner with no Wimbledon, U.S Open, or WTA Championship finals. A 3 slam winner with only 3 slam finals, and only 2 years ended ranked higher than #6.


Might she have become the next Chris Evert as she was proclaimed to be on her way to being at 13, 14, 15 with a better support system, better coaching, and without her crazy dad. Who knows. As it is though the best she managed to be is a poor womens Clijsters.

Leo St
Nov 20th, 2012, 01:40 AM
sharapova is way better at her peak

effedcamel
Nov 20th, 2012, 01:43 AM
Is the point of all these Peak Maria threads to have her name plastered everywhere so we just get sick of seeing it and, ultimately, her? :yawn:

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 01:48 AM
Well atleast Mariatards got it right this time. They picked a multi slam champion she could actually win a peak poll against. Capriati is definitely the most accomplished player, other than perhaps Clijsters, who Sharapova would ever win a poll against, so finally a wise move by a Mariatard. Too bad they made the grave mistakes of starting peak threads vs Serena, Venus, Henin, and Hingis before this.

fedhingis67
Nov 20th, 2012, 02:07 AM
What is peak Capriati anyway?

I think she'd give Maria fits with her aggressive counter-punching, but we've all seen what Peak Maria can do.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 02:16 AM
This is peak Capriati:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qkhe_vJ1Vw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7TWm9jwU6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j6dC7ZYVG8


Peak Sharapova:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-BmrazJxbM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eAb36h5Rbc


No contest Maria wins.

FlowerPrincess
Nov 20th, 2012, 02:54 AM
I don't think Capriati was ever as good as Maria.

GAGAlady
Nov 20th, 2012, 08:58 AM
Maria would win. Jennifer wasnt that good, lets be honest. She is to be admired for her great fightback to winning 3 slams against all odds, and she was one of the most precocious 15 years old ever, but other than Serena, post prime Hingis, and the vastly overrated Mary Pierce, she was every top players bitch of both her eras. Some people think she is better than she is due to her rivalry with Serena who she admirably pushed so hard which isnt easy to do obviously, and her amazing U.S Open semi with Seles decades ago as a precocious 15 year old, but other than those two things she otherwise falls well short in the realm of any player with 3 or more slams. 3 things really stand out with Capriati:

1. Her astonishingly poor H2H records vs top players for a 3 slam winner as mentioned.

2. Her extremly low winner tallies vs top players, especialy for someone we are told is supposed to be this huge "power" player. Against Venus she often played matches with only 4 winners. Against Elena Dementieva of all people she got outwinnered 41-11 in her last U.S Open semifinal. Against Davenport she usually had only single digit winners. And so on.

3. Her shocking lack of overall success for a 3 slam winner. Will we ever see a 3 slam winner who wins only 14 tournaments ever again. A 3 slam winner with no Wimbledon, U.S Open, or WTA Championship finals. A 3 slam winner with only 3 slam finals, and only 2 years ended ranked higher than #6.


Might she have become the next Chris Evert as she was proclaimed to be on her way to being at 13, 14, 15 with a better support system, better coaching, and without her crazy dad. Who knows. As it is though the best she managed to be is a poor womens Clijsters.


Yeah yeah, we get it, your not a fan of jens.


Back to reality now...

Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: hall of famer

Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: won there only match

Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: won an Olympic gold medal and played arguably the toughest times of women's tennis. Maria has a silver and she is playing scrubs who can hit bricks but have no brains. Impressive not . Also she can't beat the only really talented female left I. Women's tennis. Serena, who Jennifer beat 7 times... That's 5 times more than Maria ever has... That's a lot

I don't think CAPRIATI gives a rats ass what u think of her career. She did just fine.


CAPRIATI in 3.

Oh and when was the last time Maria won against Serena? Oh right.... Maybe she should ask Jennifer how it's done...

Next.:help::wavey:

BlueTrees
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:03 AM
Sharapova. It'd be closer than most people seem to think though, especially on hard and clay.

This is peak Capriati in my opinion

n2W6ugT0PB4

GAGAlady
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:05 AM
And might I add Maria cannot run, she hobbles around the court, much like a tall giraffe in heels, she looks ridiculous and in long rallies she would get outmanoevered by the superior athlete, CAPRIATI was a brick house at her peak and Serena hit harder than Maria at her peak and served better too and Jen still beat peak Serena 7 times. Maria can't even beat a washed up Serena at 31 and ticking... Pretty embarrassing if u ask me. And u think she'd beat Jennifer? Ha. Good one.


Maria has a career slam because she has no one good enough as competition. Jennifer's competition was a lot tougher and she actually played other talented women as good if not better. Maria? She has kirilenko and that pusher wozniacki... That's hardly competitive.

Kasey
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Please stop kissing Martha's arse in every single thread.
Peak Capriati was actually one of very few players able to challenge Peak Serena, unlike the Shrieking Razor who quite often has received pastry from Lord's Bakery.

So Peak Capriati wins.

NashaMasha
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:39 AM
Please stop kissing Martha's arse in every single thread.
Peak Capriati was actually one of very few players able to challenge Peak Serena, unlike the Shrieking Razor who quite often has received pastry from Lord's Bakery.

So Peak Capriati wins.


Dementieva, Jankovic could challenge Serena and couldn't do it vs Masha

cautiouslip
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: won an Olympic gold medal and played arguably the toughest times of women's tennis. Maria has a silver and she is playing scrubs who can hit bricks but have no brains. Impressive not . Also she can't beat the only really talented female left I. Women's tennis. Serena, who Jennifer beat 7 times... That's 5 times more than Maria ever has... That's a lot

I don't think CAPRIATI gives a rats ass what u think of her career. She did just fine.


CAPRIATI in 3.

Oh and when was the last time Maria won against Serena? Oh right.... Maybe she should ask Jennifer how it's done...

Next.:help::wavey:

And might I add Maria cannot run, she hobbles around the court, much like a tall giraffe in heels, she looks ridiculous and in long rallies she would get outmanoevered by the superior athlete, CAPRIATI was a brick house at her peak and Serena hit harder than Maria at her peak and served better too and Jen still beat peak Serena 7 times. Maria can't even beat a washed up Serena at 31 and ticking... Pretty embarrassing if u ask me. And u think she'd beat Jennifer? Ha. Good one.


Maria has a career slam because she has no one good enough as competition. Jennifer's competition was a lot tougher and she actually played other talented women as good if not better. Maria? She has kirilenko and that pusher wozniacki... That's hardly competitive.

Please stop kissing Martha's arse in every single thread.
Peak Capriati was actually one of very few players able to challenge Peak Serena, unlike the Shrieking Razor who quite often has received pastry from Lord's Bakery.

So Peak Capriati wins.

Yeah because basing how good a player is on one match up is a really smart way to go about this :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:18 AM
Dementieva, Jankovic could challenge Serena and couldn't do it vs Masha

Exactly.

I love Jennifer, but she challenged Serena in the same way lesser defenders have been able to. And those players are completely helpless against Maria.

Jennifer also never beat Venus, but Maria has a good record against her.

And you could argue that the Serena who went down in QFs to Capriati isn't as good as the Serena we're seeing now. Not that it matters.

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:53 AM
Maria never struggled that much with pure counter-punchers, apart from Vika. Soo..I think she takes this one.

hurricanejeanne
Nov 20th, 2012, 11:21 AM
It's a three set affair that's for sure.
Slight edge to Pova because Peak Pova has a superior serve.

But damn, this would have been fun to watch.

doomsday
Nov 20th, 2012, 11:41 AM
And might I add Maria cannot run, she hobbles around the court, much like a tall giraffe in heels, she looks ridiculous and in long rallies she would get outmanoevered by the superior athlete, CAPRIATI was a brick house at her peak and Serena hit harder than Maria at her peak and served better too and Jen still beat peak Serena 7 times. Maria can't even beat a washed up Serena at 31 and ticking... Pretty embarrassing if u ask me. And u think she'd beat Jennifer? Ha. Good one.


Maria has a career slam because she has no one good enough as competition. Jennifer's competition was a lot tougher and she actually played other talented women as good if not better. Maria? She has kirilenko and that pusher wozniacki... That's hardly competitive.

Stop using Jennifer's cocaine, that's way too dangerous for you :lol:



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PimpMePova
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:06 PM
I wonder how many peak sharapova threads we are gonna have on GM by the end of the off season:hysteric::sobbing:

ElusiveChanteuse
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Peak J-Cap would eventually choke against Peak Masha.:shrug:

charmedRic
Nov 20th, 2012, 01:20 PM
Peak Maria, for sure.

i.will2
Nov 20th, 2012, 05:14 PM
Voted for Capriati because I think she could tough these matches out in 3 sets on clay and hard courts but Sharapova would easily win on Grass. This would have been a great matchup though.(Makes me hope they consider these things in a new tennis video game)

BlueTrees
Nov 20th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Here are highlights from the only match they ever played, 2004 Berlin 3R where Capriati won 5-7 6-4 6-1. Not saying this was either player's peak btw. :p

CuW1T1bbRjU

The Dawntreader
Nov 20th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Capriati would have a definite edge on clay. Capriati had the ability to not only absorb pace, but move the ball around with consistent amounts of depth and fat margins. Plus when she was playing well, she could actually take returns early and hit a very penetrating ball. Plus she could also change the direction of the ball with some disguise.

I'm thinking of 'Peak Pova' as a hybrid between 2006-indoor Pova and AO 2008 Pova, so to me the rest of the surface match ups would go:

Grass- Sharpova. Capriati lacked a consistently huge serve, and her natural inclinations never really gelled on the surface. Especially if someone like Pova is taking the ball early and taking all her time away.

Slow Hardcourts- Toss up, but I'd favour Capriati. She excelled in those robust, gruelling exchanges that invariably take place on the surface. She would be able to nullify Sharapova's weight of shot, and have enough scope to dictate rallies herself occasionally.

Fast hardcourts- Sharapova.

Indoors- Sharapova by a huge margin. Capriati was woeful indoors at the best of times.


I don't think Capriati matched up badly to Sharapova at all. But a PEAK match-up would have to be dependant entirely on the surface they play on. It's too arguable otherwise.

Viktymise
Nov 20th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Maria would win. Jennifer wasnt that good, lets be honest. She is to be admired for her great fightback to winning 3 slams against all odds, and she was one of the most precocious 15 years old ever, but other than Serena, post prime Hingis, and the vastly overrated Mary Pierce, she was every top players bitch of both her eras. Some people think she is better than she is due to her rivalry with Serena who she admirably pushed so hard which isnt easy to do obviously, and her amazing U.S Open semi with Seles decades ago as a precocious 15 year old, but other than those two things she otherwise falls well short in the realm of any player with 3 or more slams. 3 things really stand out with Capriati:

1. Her astonishingly poor H2H records vs top players for a 3 slam winner as mentioned.

2. Her extremly low winner tallies vs top players, especialy for someone we are told is supposed to be this huge "power" player. Against Venus she often played matches with only 4 winners. Against Elena Dementieva of all people she got outwinnered 41-11 in her last U.S Open semifinal. Against Davenport she usually had only single digit winners. And so on.

3. Her shocking lack of overall success for a 3 slam winner. Will we ever see a 3 slam winner who wins only 14 tournaments ever again. A 3 slam winner with no Wimbledon, U.S Open, or WTA Championship finals. A 3 slam winner with only 3 slam finals, and only 2 years ended ranked higher than #6.


Might she have become the next Chris Evert as she was proclaimed to be on her way to being at 13, 14, 15 with a better support system, better coaching, and without her crazy dad. Who knows. As it is though the best she managed to be is a poor womens Clijsters.

All of this.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:09 PM
Yeah yeah, we get it, your not a fan of jens.

I actually like Jen which is why I am frusterated she didnt turn out to be an even better player. I wish she could have:

1. Hit more winners vs other top players. Her technique seemed good enough to and she was supposed to be this huge power player, yet it didnt seem to come off that way.
2. Have better records vs other top players, something a 3 slam winner should have.
3. Have better performances outside the slams and in general aside from her 3 slam wins than she does, again something that you expect of a 3 slam winner.


Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: hall of famer

Big deal, Sabatini and Novotna and Yannick Noah and Patrick Rafter are all Hall of Famers too. It is hardly a class of legends only at this point. You had better believe Sharapova will be put into the Hall of Fame the very first year she is eligible for it as well, while in upcoming years you should see Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Hingis, Mauresmo, Pierce, Conchita Martinez, and maybe even Kuznetsova all inducted too. Basically if you are better than Dementieva or Wozniacki you are in.

Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: won there only match

Good for her. Benjamin Becker won his only ever match vs Andre Agassi too, Klara Koukalova won her only ever match with Monica Seles, and didnt Virgina Whosanno win her only ever match with Serena Williams so far too. I will not defer to that as proof of Capriati's obvious superiority thanks.

Jennifer CAPRIATI fact: won an Olympic gold medal and played arguably the toughest times of women's tennis.

Which time are you referring to. Capriati had 2 different primes.

Yes Jennifer has an Olympic Gold, while Maria in addition to more slams, more tournament titles, has a WTA Championships and several finals there, while Capriati has never made a final there (nor at Wimbledon or the U.S Open). WTA Championship title + Olympic silver > Olympic gold, just like 4 slams > 3 slams, Career Slam > no Wimbledon or U.S Open finals, 20 something tournamen titles > 14 tournament titles.


Maria has a silver and she is playing scrubs who can hit bricks but have no brains. Impressive not . Also she can't beat the only really talented female left I. Women's tennis. Serena, who Jennifer beat 7 times... That's 5 times more than Maria ever has... That's a lot

Maria beat Serena and peak Justine Henin (who even before her prime owned peak Capriati) in 2 of her 4 slam finals, dominant #1 Justine Henin en route to her 3rd of 4 slams, and Serena in the final to win her WTA Championships title. Not peak Serena yes, but still a Serena who only lost in major events to Sharapova and Capriati that year, who combined between them to take her out of all 4, the difference being Maria's wins were in finals for the titles, and Jennifers's were in quarterfinals to be followed by semifinal defeats by weak opponents both times. Capriati beat a washed up Hingis and a rookie Clijsters on CLAY in her 3 slam finals. So Jennifer matches up decently vs Serena, good for her, I already noted that but that doesnt change her poor record vs practially all the other top players of her eras. Anyway despite Jennifer's challenge to Serena, even she never beat Serena once at her peak in 2002-2003 either.

You talk about how you do vs the best players, well Jennifer is 1-10 vs the GOAT Steffi Graf, won 0 of 10 sets they played in Grand Slams, and lost 6-1, 6-0 to a 30 year old Graf in their last ever match, hardly impressive. What about her great record vs Venus as well. :lol:


I don't think CAPRIATI gives a rats ass what u think of her career.

No I am quite sure she doesnt. Nor does Sharapova give a rats ass what you think of hers. :lol: The truth is Capriati while I am sure pleased with her career, would still trade her own for Maria's in a heartbeat as well.


Oh and when was the last time Maria won against Serena? Oh right.... Maybe she should ask Jennifer how it's done...

When was Jennifers's last ever win over Graf, last ever win over Venus, last ever win major win over Henin. Yeah I thought so. So Jennifer can give Maria tips on how to play Serena, while Maria in exchange can give Jennifer tips on how to play EVERYONE else since Serena seems to be the only top player (well her and a washed up Hingis) who is worth a darn who Capriati knows how to play worth a darn.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Lastly for all the talk about how poor Maria is vs Serena she is the one between her and Capriati who has beaten Serena in a slam final and beaten Serena in majors finals like Wimbledon and the WTA Championships in her career? Oh yeah thats right, it wasnt Capriati. Why did that other player manage that despite being Serena's bitch their whole careers, and not Capriati who challenges Serena much more? Oh yeah since the fact Capraiti was owned by the entire WTA top 10 besides Serena and "sometimes" Hingis during her peak years means she never even got far enough to so much as PLAY Serena in a slam final, in fact the only time they could ever play in a slam was the quarters, as anything beyond that you knew Capriati would be most likely eliminated already even at her peak. So doing respectably well and being respectably competitive vs one of the greatest players on its own, in other words just happening to be a tough matchup for one person, will only do so much for you. Capriati's legacy is more being a thorn in the side of the great Serena Williams, than producing much of a legacy of her own. I am also the furthest thing from a Sharapova fan for what it is worth but Sharapova > Capriati in terms of peak level play and careers both.

Craig.
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:28 PM
And might I add Maria cannot run, she hobbles around the court, much like a tall giraffe in heels, she looks ridiculous and in long rallies she would get outmanoevered by the superior athlete, CAPRIATI was a brick house at her peak and Serena hit harder than Maria at her peak and served better too and Jen still beat peak Serena 7 times. Maria can't even beat a washed up Serena at 31 and ticking... Pretty embarrassing if u ask me. And u think she'd beat Jennifer? Ha. Good one.


Maria has a career slam because she has no one good enough as competition. Jennifer's competition was a lot tougher and she actually played other talented women as good if not better. Maria? She has kirilenko and that pusher wozniacki... That's hardly competitive.

:lol:

Cajka
Nov 20th, 2012, 09:48 PM
And might I add Maria cannot run, she hobbles around the court, much like a tall giraffe in heels, she looks ridiculous and in long rallies she would get outmanoevered by the superior athlete, CAPRIATI was a brick house at her peak and Serena hit harder than Maria at her peak and served better too and Jen still beat peak Serena 7 times. Maria can't even beat a washed up Serena at 31 and ticking... Pretty embarrassing if u ask me. And u think she'd beat Jennifer? Ha. Good one.


:spit:
no you right she can't beat jen jen is a much better player she would beat her 6060 every time they play and if jen played in marias era she would have at least 15 slams she would beat peak serena in olympics final triple bagel sharapova in ao final and probably beat nadal in rg final !!!1111 :shout::explode:

:hug: Oh, dear, take a deep breath and calm down. Your fave was a great player, but her peak was never close to Maria's peak. The fact that she's a tougher match-up for Serena doesn't prove that she's a greater player.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:13 PM
if Maria cant "run" then Jennifer cant serve, which is equally or more imporant. Jennifer's serve was a huge weakness vs the top players, and why she lost something like 15 3 setters vs top 7 opponents in a row at one point in late 2002-2003. Her serve wasnt a weapon and always broke down completely at crunch time vs Serena, Henin, Davenport, pretty much all the top players. Granted Maria since the surgery hasnt had that much of a serve at times either, but Jennifer when she was fat and unfit (which is atleast 65% of her career, surrounding her 2 various prime periods almost a decade apart) wasnt much of a runner those times either.

Sir Stefwhit
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Reading these comments makes me think that people truly have short term memories w,regards to how good of a player Jennifer really was. Let's not forget this was the 13 yr. old who reached the final's of 2 out of 3 of her first pro tournaments EVER played, who beat Steffi Graf at the Olympics, who reached the SFs of her first French Open, who defeated Navratilova at Wimbledon, and who remains Serena's most fierce rival.

JCap was faaaaaaar from being a player I ever rooted for but I do recognize she had major weapons, speed, and fight! She seems to be dismissed too easily in this 'peak' matchup against Pova. I'm not saying JCap gets the edge because I agree that peak Pova wins, but I think it's a lot closer than people say and if rebound-ace was still in play I'd give JCap the edge there as well as clay.

Anyway u slice it, I think it's one of the closes peak vs. peak's I've seen.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:57 PM
Reading these comments makes me think that people truly have short term memories w,regards to how good of a player Jennifer really was. Let's not forget this was the 13 yr. old who reached the final's of 2 out of 3 of her first pro tournaments EVER played, who beat Steffi Graf at the Olympics, who reached the SFs of her first French Open, who defeated Navratilova at Wimbledon, and who remains Serena's most fierce rival.

JCap was faaaaaaar from being a player I ever rooted for but I do recognize she had major weapons, speed, and fight! She seems to be dismissed too easily in this 'peak' matchup against Pova. I'm not saying JCap gets the edge because I agree that peak Pova wins, but I think it's a lot closer than people say and if rebound-ace was still in play I'd give JCap the edge there as well as clay.

Anyway u slice it, I think it's one of the closes peak vs. peak's I've seen.

Jennifer has over 40% of the votes in this poll so how is she being easily dismissed? I could see your point if she had 20% or less of the votes.

I cant speak for everyone but I have followed womens tennis closely since the late 80s and I have seen all of the best of Jennifer, both early 90s, and early 2000s, and am more than familiar with her very best. She was a very good player with clean ballstriking, a very good forehand, good movement when fit, and great fight when she wanted it. However she was owned by Graf, Seles, Sabatini, Sanchez, and Navratilova through her first prime in the early 90s, then owned by Venus, Serena, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, and Mauresmo the rest of her second prime after the 2002 Australian Open. The only period she was anymore than about the 7th best player in the World at a given time was that 13 month stretch of January 2001-January 2002 she won 3 slams, but she did win 3 slams in a period she won only 4 total tournaments and had about a .500 win record vs the rest of the top 10, so she had to be the most undominant 3 slam winner in history. I think the reverse is true, some build her up too much based on her being a tough matchup for Serena, and a couple amazing U.S Open matches (both which she lost despite leading near the end, in part due to her weak serve, and in part due to despite being a fighter not have the champions mentality of the greater champions of her eras) and people remember the Serena battles, the Seles-Capriati and Henin-Capriati U.S wars, and not much else, but when it comes to Capriati that is already about as good as it gets.

The Dawntreader
Nov 20th, 2012, 11:01 PM
I don't know why people are talking about Capriati's 2004 form as any indication of her 'peak'. Capriati played like a rank pusher at the USO 2004, and was rightly out-winnered by the majority of her opponents, but that is not indicative of the level Capriati was playing in 2001 to early 2002.

Sure, Capriati was nowhere near the offensive ball-striker Venus, Lindsay, Serena was, but she could hit with sufficient weight from the back of the court, and her forehand in particular could generate great pace and width. Added with her extremely robust physique and powerful mobility, she was very hard to beat. You had to be a premium shot-maker to deal with her when playing at her best. Just look how formidable she was at the AO in '01, absolutely beating Hingis up in the final, hitting with great leverage and accuracy. Plus she had underrated court instincts, especially in defense with the slice backhand that she could use to neutralise points, and her above average skill at net. Just because it wasn't Capriati's natural inclinations to play like this, doesn't mean she wasn't capable of this brand of tennis.

Capriati was no virtuoso, but her prime hardly matches up that badly to Sharapova's at all, making this question at the very least debatable.

And I'm not even a fan.

nomir
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:39 AM
I actually like Jen which is why I am frusterated she didnt turn out to be an even better player. I wish she could have:

1. Hit more winners vs other top players. Her technique seemed good enough to and she was supposed to be this huge power player, yet it didnt seem to come off that way.
2. Have better records vs other top players, something a 3 slam winner should have.
3. Have better performances outside the slams and in general aside from her 3 slam wins than she does, again something that you expect of a 3 slam winner.




Big deal, Sabatini and Novotna and Yannick Noah and Patrick Rafter are all Hall of Famers too. It is hardly a class of legends only at this point. You had better believe Sharapova will be put into the Hall of Fame the very first year she is eligible for it as well, while in upcoming years you should see Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Hingis, Mauresmo, Pierce, Conchita Martinez, and maybe even Kuznetsova all inducted too. Basically if you are better than Dementieva or Wozniacki you are in.



Good for her. Benjamin Becker won his only ever match vs Andre Agassi too, Klara Koukalova won her only ever match with Monica Seles, and didnt Virgina Whosanno win her only ever match with Serena Williams so far too. I will not defer to that as proof of Capriati's obvious superiority thanks.



Which time are you referring to. Capriati had 2 different primes.

Yes Jennifer has an Olympic Gold, while Maria in addition to more slams, more tournament titles, has a WTA Championships and several finals there, while Capriati has never made a final there (nor at Wimbledon or the U.S Open). WTA Championship title + Olympic silver > Olympic gold, just like 4 slams > 3 slams, Career Slam > no Wimbledon or U.S Open finals, 20 something tournamen titles > 14 tournament titles.




Maria beat Serena and peak Justine Henin (who even before her prime owned peak Capriati) in 2 of her 4 slam finals, dominant #1 Justine Henin en route to her 3rd of 4 slams, and Serena in the final to win her WTA Championships title. Not peak Serena yes, but still a Serena who only lost in major events to Sharapova and Capriati that year, who combined between them to take her out of all 4, the difference being Maria's wins were in finals for the titles, and Jennifers's were in quarterfinals to be followed by semifinal defeats by weak opponents both times. Capriati beat a washed up Hingis and a rookie Clijsters on CLAY in her 3 slam finals. So Jennifer matches up decently vs Serena, good for her, I already noted that but that doesnt change her poor record vs practially all the other top players of her eras. Anyway despite Jennifer's challenge to Serena, even she never beat Serena once at her peak in 2002-2003 either.

You talk about how you do vs the best players, well Jennifer is 1-10 vs the GOAT Steffi Graf, won 0 of 10 sets they played in Grand Slams, and lost 6-1, 6-0 to a 30 year old Graf in their last ever match, hardly impressive. What about her great record vs Venus as well. :lol:




No I am quite sure she doesnt. Nor does Sharapova give a rats ass what you think of hers. :lol: The truth is Capriati while I am sure pleased with her career, would still trade her own for Maria's in a heartbeat as well.




When was Jennifers's last ever win over Graf, last ever win over Venus, last ever win major win over Henin. Yeah I thought so. So Jennifer can give Maria tips on how to play Serena, while Maria in exchange can give Jennifer tips on how to play EVERYONE else since Serena seems to be the only top player (well her and a washed up Hingis) who is worth a darn who Capriati knows how to play worth a darn.

I think you'll find you're wrong there. Jen never faced Margaret Court. :confused:

Nevertheless, yes it is weird how Jen played so well against Serena and played her much closer than anyone could, yet herself was regularly smoked by Venus, Davenport and Seles. She also matched up decently against Clijsters, but trails her other peers by big margins. Not sure about Mauresmo, that's 4-7 which some will call large, but it's funny, she had a match point in one of her losses and served for the match in another, so should be 6-5.

I think this is hard to call. If Jennifer was able to play peak Serena SO well (when she herself was not at her peak) then who is to say that she would not do the same vs. Maria, when Maria is slower than Serena, and not as hard a hitter and has a much worse serve??

nomir
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:48 AM
I don't know why people are talking about Capriati's 2004 form as any indication of her 'peak'. Capriati played like a rank pusher at the USO 2004, and was rightly out-winnered by the majority of her opponents, but that is not indicative of the level Capriati was playing in 2001 to early 2002.

Sure, Capriati was nowhere near the offensive ball-striker Venus, Lindsay, Serena was, but she could hit with sufficient weight from the back of the court, and her forehand in particular could generate great pace and width. Added with her extremely robust physique and powerful mobility, she was very hard to beat. You had to be a premium shot-maker to deal with her when playing at her best. Just look how formidable she was at the AO in '01, absolutely beating Hingis up in the final, hitting with great leverage and accuracy. Plus she had underrated court instincts, especially in defense with the slice backhand that she could use to neutralise points, and her above average skill at net. Just because it wasn't Capriati's natural inclinations to play like this, doesn't mean she wasn't capable of this brand of tennis.

Capriati was no virtuoso, but her prime hardly matches up that badly to Sharapova's at all, making this question at the very least debatable.

And I'm not even a fan.

Actually, in that 2001 AO match, Jen "only" had 7 more winners than Martina 20-13. The real story was the unforced error rate. Martina had 32 to Jennifer's 20.

I don't see why people seem to be discussing who is the greater player when we are talking about match-ups. Peak Venus would probably lose to Pironkova, despite being far greater.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:53 AM
I think you'll find you're wrong there. Jen never faced Margaret Court. :confused:

Nevertheless, yes it is weird how Jen played so well against Serena and played her much closer than anyone could, yet herself was regularly smoked by Venus, Davenport and Seles. She also matched up decently against Clijsters, but trails her other peers by big margins. Not sure about Mauresmo, that's 4-7 which some will call large, but it's funny, she had a match point in one of her losses and served for the match in another, so should be 6-5.

I think this is hard to call. If Jennifer was able to play peak Serena SO well (when she herself was not at her peak) then who is to say that she would not do the same vs. Maria, when Maria is slower than Serena, and not as hard a hitter and has a much worse serve??

Because Maria and Serena just don't play the same way, you do realize that Serena's rivals in terms of matchup are players that Maria usually beat up and very badly.
6-1 over Jankovic
11-2 over Stosur
9-3 over Dementieva

People should quit this idea that Serena and Maria do basically the same thing, Maria hit a heavier ball on a consistent basis for example.


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nomir
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:59 AM
Because Maria and Serena just don't play the same way, you do realize that Serena's rivals in terms of matchup are players that Maria usually beat up and very badly.
6-1 over Jankovic
11-2 over Stosur
9-3 over Dementieva

People should quit this idea that Serena and Maria do basically the same thing, Maria hit a heavier ball on a consistent basis for example.


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Yeah you kind of owned me there, lol. I wonder why Maria had/has such an easier time with those three than Serena??

I still have to say though, looking at it, that peak Jen would be more than a match for peak Maria. Her defense would cause her havoc, and she could hit big and mix it up when needed. Jankovic has just as good if not better defense than Jen, Dementieva just as good if not better offense, but neither had the other (Jankovic offense, Dementieva defense) as good as Jen.

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:25 PM
Serena's kryptonite has always been players who bring lots of balls back, thus the good movers.

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:26 PM
About this matchup...if Vika who doesn't move nearly as well as Capriati can practically own Maria this bad, I think Jennifer certainly would score a couple of wins against even peak Maria.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:43 PM
Yeah you kind of owned me there, lol. I wonder why Maria had/has such an easier time with those three than Serena??

Well, Maria never had many problems with defensive players in her career, Maria was always the kind of player who loved putting players on the run.


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doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:45 PM
About this matchup...if Vika who doesn't move nearly as well as Capriati can practically own Maria this bad, I think Jennifer certainly would score a couple of wins against even peak Maria.

Yeah right, cause Vika is playing PeakPova.:lol:


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bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:31 PM
Yeah right, cause Vika is playing PeakPova.:lol:


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Ah the mystical peak Pova..which year was it again?! not '08, because by then she already had pain in the shoulder...so that leaves either '04 or '06.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:50 PM
I think you'll find you're wrong there. Jen never faced Margaret Court. :confused:

I know, but she has faced all of Graf, Navratilova, and Serena so quite obviously has played the GOAT.
:lol:

Nevertheless, yes it is weird how Jen played so well against Serena and played her much closer than anyone could, yet herself was regularly smoked by Venus, Davenport and Seles. She also matched up decently against Clijsters, but trails her other peers by big margins. Not sure about Mauresmo, that's 4-7 which some will call large, but it's funny, she had a match point in one of her losses and served for the match in another, so should be 6-5.

The thing about Clijsters and Mauresmo is when they entered their primes, 2003 for Clijsters, 2002 for Mauresmo, they won every match they played with Jen as well, except for a retirement due to injury first set by Mauresmo. Granted Jennifer may not have been total peak then (her real peak might have in fact been only 2001-early 2002 which is a very short peak to put it mildly) but she wasnt far off.

I think it was a combiation of alot of things. I think she got up for Serena like nobody else since she didnt really like Serena, and she also knew that talent and ability wise Serena was so far ahead of her that if she didnt really raise her level for Serena she was getting smoked, and she had too much pride to let that happen regularly. Serena wasnt anywhere near as tough mentally back in 2000/2001 when she had many of her losses to Jen, and was in fact prone to mental blocks vs certain players back then once she had a loss or two to them. Most of all though Capriati had the right balance of consistency, great defense, and hitting with decent power and depth to bother Serena. She couldnt ever flat out overpower Serena, but she executed the tedious down the middle strategy which is adviced for Serena to perfection. I think another poster made a good point recenty too, Capriati was good at dragging Serena down to her level as a player and trying to beat her from there. Who knows maybe she could do the same thing with Maria, although she wouldnt have nearly as far to go in Maria's case, and trail the H2H something like 7-10 just like she does with Serena.

As bandadou said Serena's biggest annoyance is with players who can bring a ton of balls back. Many other top players who own Capriati are not bothered by this, and Capriati doesnt really bring much else to the table. While powerful she isnt anymore powerful enough or a good enough shotmaker to be able to flat out outhit most other top players (Serena, Venus, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Seles, Graf, even Mauresmo) unless she is having an unbelievably good day, her serve is a big liability, most of can easily run with her, and most have better all around games and more variety as well.

I think this is hard to call. If Jennifer was able to play peak Serena SO well (when she herself was not at her peak) then who is to say that she would not do the same vs. Maria, when Maria is slower than Serena, and not as hard a hitter and has a much worse serve??

Since Maria isnt as bothered by people who bring alot of balls back, with the exception of maybe Azarenka today, but long past Maria's true peak in tennis playing (her great results weak field based aside) Capriati also wouldnt be able to summon the extra emotion to play above herself with Maria like she finds vs Serena.

When did Jennifer play peak Serena so well when not at her peak? 2001 was clearly not peak Serena, and 2002 was still probably peak Jennifer IMO and while they had alot of close matches Jennifer produced 0 wins that year. 2004 was neither at their peak. They barely played any matches in 2003, I remember one at Wimbledon where a sloppy Serena lost the 1st set then crushed Capriati in the last 2 and one at Miami that was similar in that sense, and that is all.

Royals.
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:39 PM
Please stop kissing Martha's arse in every single thread.
Peak Capriati was actually one of very few players able to challenge Peak Serena, unlike the Shrieking Razor who quite often has received pastry from Lord's Bakery.

So Peak Capriati wins.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! :help: :help: :lol: :bounce: :bounce: :lol:

madmax
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:11 PM
Ah the mystical peak Pova..which year was it again?! not '08, because by then she already had pain in the shoulder...so that leaves either '04 or '06.

there's no mystic here my dear trolling friend...Maria started her climb into dominating period of tennis in late 2007 and then dismissed the field in 2008 AO and Doha. Unfortunately, she teared her rotator cuff in a match against Bondarenko later that year and her brief period of dominance was over. It's unfortunate that trolls like you still make fun of it, while no other player except for Maria was able to overcome such serious injury. But I guess a word "class" is not in Williams fans dictionary anyway, so why do I even bother...

FleetSeb
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:22 PM
Maria is mentally stronger, would be dictating the play, and at her peak Maria made an astonishingly low number of UEs so wouldn't hit herself off the court. Maria is frustrated by players that can either out-hit AND out-defend her (Serena) or players with better defence that can also redirect her pace effectively (Azarenka, Henin). Capriati doesn't have enough about her game to throw Maria off.

J4m3ka
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:12 PM
But I guess a word "class" is not in Williams fans dictionary anyway, so why do I even bother...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcz0ohY9Q81r65aj5.gif

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:16 PM
there's no mystic here my dear trolling friend...Maria started her climb into dominating period of tennis in late 2007 and then dismissed the field in 2008 AO and Doha. Unfortunately, she teared her rotator cuff in a match against Bondarenko later that year and her brief period of dominance was over. It's unfortunate that trolls like you still make fun of it, while no other player except for Maria was able to overcome such serious injury. But I guess a word "class" is not in Williams fans dictionary anyway, so why do I even bother...

During the period you refer to she still lost the YEC final to Henin, lost on clay to Serena Williams, won the Australian Open vs a weak finals opponent, and won only 2 tournaments, so that is not a climb to dominating tennis. Sorry.

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:53 PM
there's no mystic here my dear trolling friend...Maria started her climb into dominating period of tennis in late 2007 and then dismissed the field in 2008 AO and Doha. Unfortunately, she teared her rotator cuff in a match against Bondarenko later that year and her brief period of dominance was over. It's unfortunate that trolls like you still make fun of it, while no other player except for Maria was able to overcome such serious injury. But I guess a word "class" is not in Williams fans dictionary anyway, so why do I even bother...

Never made any jokes about the shoulder injury. I only asked about the peak..because some say '06, some say '08, others say '04...all I asked. :shrug:

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:04 PM
During the period you refer to she still lost the YEC final to Henin, lost on clay to Serena Williams, won the Australian Open vs a weak finals opponent, and won only 2 tournaments, so that is not a climb to dominating tennis. Sorry.

:lol: you're kidding, she was on a 18 winning streak. She had won OZ, Doha and another clay tournament. At the time she had won 3 out of 5 titles she entered it was a climb to dominating.

And you're still arguing about her final opponent, the way she dismantled Henin, Davenport and Dementieva were enough for me. And it's not like Maria never eat greatest players than her in major final anyway.

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:19 PM
:lol: you're kidding, she was on a 18 winning streak. She had won OZ, Doha and another clay tournament. At the time she had won 3 out of 5 titles she entered it was a climb to dominating.

And you're still arguing about her final opponent, the way she dismantled Henin, Davenport and Dementieva were enough for me. And it's not like Maria never eat greatest players than her in major final anyway.

I think that the thing with Maria is that great as those numbers look..her lack of multiple majors means that you can't call her DOMINATING.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:33 PM
I think that the thing with Maria is that great as those numbers look..her lack of multiple majors means that you can't call her DOMINATING.

i know that, but after OZ 2008 Maria had won two of the last 5 majors that injury really happened at a very bad time especially when we know that the dominating player at the time decided to retire. The field was quite open for Maria at this moment.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:48 PM
:lol: you're kidding, she was on a 18 winning streak. She had won OZ, Doha and another clay tournament. At the time she had won 3 out of 5 titles she entered it was a climb to dominating.

And you're still arguing about her final opponent, the way she dismantled Henin, Davenport and Dementieva were enough for me. And it's not like Maria never eat greatest players than her in major final anyway.

LOL at your last paragraph.

Dementieva- a joke of a top player, and the most overhyped player this forum. Didnt even reach another slam final after 2004, nor reach #1 for a single week peaking at the start of the mug era when seemingly everyone who could hold a racquet straight got a turn at a slam win or at being #1. Also in major events especialy is every other top players (if she can even count as a real top player herself) bitch.

Davenport- yeah like 32 year old mommy Davenport out of retirement was any threat. Her best slam showing in her comeback was 3rd round. Anyway Maria was 4-1 lifetime even when the real Davenport of yesteryear existed, so was never that big a deal for her to beat her anyway, let alone a sign of taking to a new level.

Henin- early 2008 Henin sucked, there is a reason she retired. Serena also beat her 0 and 2 a few weeks later, Schiavone beat her on a hard court, Safina beat her on a clay court.

In the context of 2008 you might as well talk about her straight setting Jankovic and Ivanovic, which while it might not sound that impressive on a hard court (and indeed isnt really), they were still tougher opponents at the time than any of the ones you mentioned.

Lets say just for a moment you are right on her playing level though. When we analyze the next 2.5 years there was still no opportunity for any impending Sharapova dominance. She was never a good enough clay courter in the 2008-2010 period to win a French. Then 6 of the 7 next non clay majors were 5 won by Serena, so forget any of those for Maria for obvious reasons (I laugh at anyone who dares to challenge this and I am anxiously awaiting someone even trying), and 1 won by Venus at Wimbledon, another to forget. At best she might have won her lone 2010 major somewhere (maybe the French if she improved, or the U.S Open) as her pattern indicats when her peak play is present 1 slam every 2 years is what one should expect.


No matter how hard her fans try to spin it Maria was never dominating tennis or on the verge of it. She has never won a slam in even back to back years, her closest period between slam wins is 17 months. :taped: She still hasnt ever won a 2nd slam at any venue either. She just isnt and never was a dominant player either in general, nor on any one surface, just a very good one who has been able to sprinkle slam wins over a long time

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:57 PM
i know that, but after OZ 2008 Maria had won two of the last 5 majors that injury really happened at a very bad time especially when we know that the dominating player at the time decided to retire. The field was quite open for Maria at this moment.

2 out of 5..is a nice way of looking at it, but the math doesn't add up..not when Masha went whole '07 without winning a major.

The field was quite open for her, huh?! :lol: Did Serena retire too, then? ;)

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:05 PM
When did Maria win 2 out of 5 majors. She did not win any of the 4 2007 majors she played, so the best streak she had was 2 of 6, and it involved an entire year slamless, keeping intact her streak of never winning a slam in back to back years, along with her streak of never winning 2 slams in the same year, never defending a slam title, not winning any slam more than once, not ending a year #1 (yes this is true of Venus as well I know), never ending a year regarded as the games best player, all the usual non dominant stats which makes up Maria's career thus far.

Anyway I did give the edge to Maria over Capriati in this thread and her stans are still screaming out for more , lol! Come to think of it one thing Capriati does have over Maria is in a certain way she did dominate. She won 3 of 5 slams at one point, back to back slams in 2001, defended a slam title at the Australian Open. These stats trump anything Maria has done. They might have even bumped Capriati in a peak on peak debate over Sharapova for me, except that despite these wins Capriati never really gained respect as Worlds best player for even a brief moment over Venus, which is why it didnt quite do that.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:05 PM
LOL at your last paragraph.

Dementieva- a joke of a top player, and the most overhyped player this forum. Didnt even reach another slam final after 2004, nor reach #1 for a single week peaking at the start of the mug era when seemingly everyone who could hold a racquet straight got a turn at a slam win or at being #1. Also in major events especialy is every other top players (if she can even cout as a real top player herself) bitch.

Davenport- yeah like 32 year old mommy Davenport out of retirement was any threat. Her best slam showing in her comeback was 3rd round. Anyway Maria was 4-1 lifetime even when the good Davenport of yesteryear.

Henin- early 2008 Henin sucked, there is a reason she retired. Serena also beat her 0 and 2 a few weeks later, Schiavone beat her on a hard court, Safina beat her on a clay court.

In the context of 2008 you might as well talk about her straight setting Jankovic and Ivanovic, which while it might not sound that impressive on a hard court (and indeed isnt really), they were still tougher opponents at the time than any of the ones you mentioned.

Lets say just for a moment you are right on her playing level though. When we analyze the next 2.5 years there was still no opportunity for any impending Sharapova dominance. She was never a good enough clay courter in the 2008-2010 period to win a French. Then 6 of the 7 next non clay majors were 5 won by Serena, so forget any of those for Maria for obvious reasons (I laugh at anyone who dares to challenge this and I am anxiously awaiting someone even trying), and 1 won by Venus at Wimbledon, another to forget. At best she might have won her lone 2010 major somewhere (maybe the French if she improved, or the U.S Open) as her pattern indicats when her peak play is present 1 slam every 2 years is what one should expect.

No matter how hard her fans try to spin it Maria was never dominating tennis or on the verge of it. She has never won a slam in even back to back years, her closest period between slam wins is 17 months. :taped: She still hasnt ever won a 2nd slam at any venue either. She just isnt and never was a dominant player either in general, nor on any one surface, just a very good one who has been able to sprinkle slam wins over a long time

I'm laughing at you, you're trying to find an excuse for every single player that Maria defeated. The very fact that Maria conceded so few games in this fortnight is a proof how unplayable she was, whether one of those players was a mother or not she really was too good for anyone. And of course, just forget that Henin was on a 32 winning streak, just forget it.

As for your last paragraph, I won't even bother since Maria is still playing tennis and can make you eat your words like she has done this year and the years before.

Morning Morgan
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:08 PM
To be honest, peak Capriati is the first set of 2001 Charleston final against Hingis. 2001 is definitely her best year, when she backed up with aggressive play, becasue she probably felt she had nothing to lose.. Somehow 2002 onwards, she retreated more into counterpunching mode, probably because being a top player she didn't feel as free to swing out anymore.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:17 PM
2 out of 5..is a nice way of looking at it, but the math doesn't add up..not when Masha went whole '07 without winning a major.

The field was quite open for her, huh?! :lol: Did Serena retire too, then? ;)

This is not only about Serena, you can't tell me that the field wasn't more open when the player who had won 7 majors in the last 5 years and reached 6 major finals in just 2 years was gone.
Beside isn't it right after Henin's retirement and Sharapova's injury that we lived the worst years in women's tennis with 3 or 4 numbers switching the N1 ranking every 2 month :help:


When did Maria win 2 out of 5 majors. She did not win any of the 4 2007 majors she played, so the best streak she had was 2 of 6, and it involved an entire year slamless, keeping intact her streak of never winning a slam in back to back years, along with her streak of never winning 2 slams in the same year, never defending a slam title, not winning any slam more than once, not ending a year #1 (yes this is true of Venus as well I know), never ending a year regarded as the games best player, all the usual non dominant stats which makes up Maria's career thus far.

She had won US 2006 and OZ2008 so now do the math.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:19 PM
I'm laughing at you

The irony is rich there.

you're trying to find an excuse for every single player that Maria defeated.

They arent excuses. I never disputed that Maria did dominate at that event and was a worthy event. What I disputed is winning that one slam was in anyway a sign of impending dominance. Also laughing that you would even include crushing a 32 year old non contending Davenport or Dementieva as signs of being about to take over the WTA tour. :lol:

The very fact that Maria conceded so few games in this fortnight is a proof how unplayable she was

If Serena, Venus, or the Henin of 2003-2007 was one of her opponents maybe this would ring with some truth. If she was suddenly so unplayable (not just at this event according to you, but without injury for years to come supposably, lol) why did she lose handily to Serena on Serena's worst surface soon after.

just forget that Henin was on a 32 winning streak, just forget it.

Henin's 2007 wins streaks are irrelevant to her 2008 form which everyone except you apparently knows what complete crap. Were you living under a rock when Serena beat Henin 2 and 0, Schiavone and Safina back when they were nobodies beat Henin, and some player ranked outside the top 100 even took her to 3 sets. Yeah Henin was still the Henin of 07, and it was only Maria who made her look bad for one match, if you were in coma the rest of that year perhaps. :tape:

As for your last paragraph, I won't even bother since Maria is still playing tennis and can make you eat your words like she has done this year and the years before.

Good luck, but she has never successfully done so thus far. As far as I can see she has still never won 2 slams in the same year, still never ended a year #1, still never been the dominant or even best player, still never defended a slam title. I never once said with certainty she would never win another slam, and probably wont due with certainly for a few years anyway, and that is pretty much the only way she could have ever proven me wrong, since that is the extent of her success is winning the odd random slams.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:28 PM
If Serena, Venus, or the Henin of 2003-2007 was one of her opponents maybe this would ring with some truth. If she was suddenly so unplayable (not just at this event according to you, but without injury for years to come supposably, lol) why did she lose handily to Serena on Serena's worst surface soon after.


She didn't lose handily to Serena, Maria should have won that match 3 and 2 :lol: and she ended up losing in three sets with a breadstick in the last one that's true but it was everything except a walk in the park for Serena who had to save sets points in the first set and lose the second one as well.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:28 PM
This is not only about Serena, you can't tell me that the field wasn't more open when the player who had won 7 majors in the last 5 years and reached 6 major finals in just 2 years was gone.
Beside isn't it right after Henin's retirement and Sharapova's injury that we lived the worst years in women's tennis with 3 or 4 numbers switching the N1 ranking every 2 month :help:

The point of Serena is about 10 times a harder opponent for Sharapova than even peak Henin, so Henin retiring does not make the path to slam titles more open for Sharapova at all. Of course any version of Sharapova would have no hope in hell vs a good Henin on clay, but on hard courts has shown she can beat Henin even in her prime when in top form, and on grass needless to say could. Against Serena, Maria has no hope of winning whenever they step on court together, especialy on grass or hard courts, so any slam Serena won, and as mentioned Serena won 5 of the next 7 non clay slams, and 1 of the remaining 2 was won by Venus on GRASS, another impossible win for Maria, limiting her chances for the forseeable future of non clay slams to almost nothing, and Maria back then was not that good a clay courter so clay slams were unlikey as well especialy with real clay courters like Kuznetsova and Ivanovic winning them soon after Henin's retirement. How you think Henin and Serena matchup is irrelevant to the respective Henin vs Sharapova and most of all Serena vs Sharapova matchups. Heck if anything Maria's chances of slams ahd she remained on course and not had any shoulder problems would have been worse with Henin gone, as she could have atleast had some help with Henin possibly taking Serena out of some of those slams for her, as she sure as heck was never going to be one the to do it.

She had won US 2006 and OZ2008 so now do the math.

2006 U.S Open
2007 Australian Open
2007 French Open
2007 Wimbledon
2007 U.S Open
2008 Australian Open

6 slams, you arent very smart are you. :lol: By your logic when Henin won the French Open, U.S Open, and Australian Open from the 2003 French to 2004 Australian she had won 3 of 3 slams somehow since they are 3 slams apart. :help:

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:35 PM
The point of Serena is about 10 times a harder opponent for Sharapova than even peak Henin, so Henin retiring does not make the path to slam titles more open for Sharapova at all. Sharapova would have no hope in hell vs a good Henin on clay, but on hard courts has shown she can beat Henin even in her prime when in top form, and on grass needless to say could. Against Serena, Maria has no hope of winning whenever they step on court together, especialy on grass or hard courts, so any slam Serena won, and as mentioned Serena won 5 of the next 7 non clay slams, and 1 of the remaining 2 was won by Venus on GRASS, another impossabile win for Maria, limiting her chances for the forseeable future of non clay slams to almost nothing, and Maria back then was not that good a clay courter so clay slams were unlikey as well especialy with real clay courters like Kuznetsova and Ivanovic winning them soon after Henin's retirement.

Like I said even on clay court like Charleston, Maria had chances of winning over Serena in that quarterfinal for that reason I really believe that peak Pova could have challenged her.
And it's not like Serena was playing stellar tennis at the time, she lost in the third round at Roland Garros, lost in Wimbledon final over Venus( needless to say that it wasn't peak Serena) and then again she came back from hell to defeat Venus in US2008, she even had to save set points against Jankovic in the second set in the final.

2006 U.S Open
2007 Australian Open
2007 French Open
2007 Wimbledon
2007 U.S Open
2008 Australian Open

6 slams, you arent very smart are you. :lol: By your logic when Henin won the French Open, U.S Open, and Australian Open from the 2003 French to 2004 Australian she had won 3 of 3 slams somehow since they are 3 slams apart. :help:

My bad, I erased USO2007 from my memory for obvious reasons.:lol:

madmax
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:45 PM
During the period you refer to she still lost the YEC final to Henin, lost on clay to Serena Williams, won the Australian Open vs a weak finals opponent, and won only 2 tournaments, so that is not a climb to dominating tennis. Sorry.

which part of the "she tore her rotator cuff in March against Bondarenko" you didn't understand?:confused: Hello, she played ENTIRE 3 or 4 months with broken shoulder and you are surprised to see her losing matches? Really now?:facepalm:

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:46 PM
This is not only about Serena, you can't tell me that the field wasn't more open when the player who had won 7 majors in the last 5 years and reached 6 major finals in just 2 years was gone.
Beside isn't it right after Henin's retirement and Sharapova's injury that we lived the worst years in women's tennis with 3 or 4 numbers switching the N1 ranking every 2 month :help:

Not really perse...Juju was the queen of RG, so at the time she wasn't really stopping Maria from winning, me think. At that time Maria still was considered a fastcourt player and no claypova.

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:54 PM
Like I said even on clay court like Charleston, Maria had chances of winning over Serena in that quarterfinal for that reason I really believe that peak Pova could have challenged her.
And it's not like Serena was playing stellar tennis at the time, she lost in the third round at Roland Garros, lost in Wimbledon final over Venus( needless to say that it wasn't peak Serena) and then again she came back from hell to defeat Venus in US2008, she even had to save set points against Jankovic in the second set.

:lol: So now losing on grass to Vee is some disgrace, huh?! :lol:
You just had to say: Serena even lost a set to Maria..that was all indication that she wasn't playing stellar.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:56 PM
Like I said even on clay court like Charleston, Maria had chances of winning over Serena in that quarterfinal

It is funny you say "even on clay", is clay supposed to be some disadvantage for Maria in a matchup with Serena. :lol: It is the reverse which is true. Clay is the only surface today you can even compare the careers of Serena and Maria on, and werent you arguing on another thread that Maria even today could beat Serena on red clay (I know Charleston isnt red clay but that is aside the point). Clay is not even a good barometer since it is the only surface Maria could have a hope vs Serena on ever since their rivalry all but ended in early 2005, in fact Maria has to beat Serena on clay to show she would have a chance on any other surface. Their last 2 hard court matches before that Serena had barely lost games to Maria.

for that reason I really believe peak Maria could have challenged her.

Since 2005, Maria fans have often convinced themselves it was time for her to challenge Serena again and have always been let down with a thud when they do start playing again. Likely would have been more of the time.

And it's not like Serena was playing stellar tennis at the time, she lost in the third round at Roland Garros

Frequent for Serena, so irrelevant. Neither Maria or Serena were winning Roland Garros around that time anyway.

lost in Wimbledon final over Venus

yes lost the Wimbledon final to one of the top 3 grass courters of all time. This is supposed to indicate she is off form. :lol: Yes she often beats Venus at Wimbledon, but Venus is way too great a grass courter to not win over Serena at one point. Did you even see that match. It was outstanding, like pretty much all the Venus-Serena Wimbledon matches were bar the bad first one in 2000, despite their detractors. In fact 2008 (won by Venus) and 2002 (won by Serena) were their best two ever.

Anyway are you now going to argue Maria could have beaten Venus (or perhaps Serena and Venus both) to win this Wimbledon. Have you seen Maria's two matches with Venus on grass. :tape:

and then again she came back from hell to defeat Venus in US2008, she even had to save set points against Jankovic in the second set.

Jankovic is a tougher opponent for Serena than Maria is. You should know that by now. Venus is as well.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:01 PM
:lol: So now losing on grass to Vee is some disgrace, huh?! :lol:
You just had to say: Serena even lost a set to Maria..that was all indication that she wasn't playing stellar.

:lol: sure. Serena not playing stellar against Pova, now I've seen everything :lol:

bandabou
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:11 PM
:lol: sure. Serena not playing stellar against Pova, now I've seen everything :lol:

:lol: Well, according to dsanders even the Olympics wasn't stellar and still scoreline was what it was, soo when Serena loses a set to Masha, you know she's in bad form, no?! :shrug:

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:15 PM
:lol: sure. Serena not playing stellar against Pova, now I've seen everything :lol:

That is the whole point. Serena will always play stellar vs Maria. History has shown that for a number of years. Maybe Maria's game is just a perfect fit for Serena, maybe the psychological edge is just too huge at this point. Or maybe Maria is paying for Tracy Austin and the other so called experts mocking Serena's chances before the 07 Australian Open final, or Maria and her dad are paying for their shameful behavior in the 2004 WTA Championship final. Who knows, other than probably Serena (and maybe Maria). Whatever the case whenever they play the last 5 plus years you know Serena will be on, and thus Maria will be gone. She cant even hope for Serena to have an off day, as Serena never has those when playing Maria.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:27 PM
:lol: Well, according to dsanders even the Olympics wasn't stellar and still scoreline was what it was, soo when Serena loses a set to Masha, you know she's in bad form, no?! :shrug:

No.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:30 PM
:lol: Well, according to dsanders even the Olympics wasn't stellar and still scoreline was what it was, soo when Serena loses a set to Masha, you know she's in bad form, no?! :shrug:

dsanders seems to be the biggest tool around here, along with AcesHigh and madmax. If he thinks the Olympic final wasnt even Serena playing well though, he must really think Serena is the hands down untouchable GOAT, even if he doesnt realize it. :lol: Either that or Maria is really a shit player to lose 0 and 1 to Serena not even playing well according to him (even if he thinks Maria also didnt).

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:32 PM
That is the whole point. Serena will always play stellar vs Maria. History has shown that for a number of years. Maybe Maria's game is just a perfect fit for Serena, maybe the psychological edge is just too huge at this point. Or maybe Maria is paying for Tracy Austin and the other so called experts mocking Serena's chances before the 07 Australian Open final, or Maria and her dad are paying for their shameful behavior in the 2004 WTA Championship final. Who knows, other than probably Serena (and maybe Maria). Whatever the case whenever they play the last 5 plus years you know Serena will be on, and thus Maria will be gone. She cant even hope for Serena to have an off day, as Serena never has those when playing Maria.

WTH.
Anyway you're free to believe whatever you want, I'm well aware that beating Serena ain't an easy task for Maria but I really believe that Maria from 2008 would have had her chances over Serena from 2008 btw who would have been the favorite in OZ2008 according to you if Serena had not lost to Jelena??????

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:35 PM
After all I have seen the last 6 years is hard to ever bet against Serena in a matchup with Maria anytime, anywhere, on any surface, so I think that would answer your question. As to what I would have thought at the time, well surely you recall how the last 2 matches between Maria and Serena on a hard court before the 2008 Australian Open went, so that would also answer that question. It doesnt matter though, Serena couldnt even beat Jankovic, so obviously was not a worthy winner of the event.

As for my other comments obviously you did not read MSNBCs online predictions for the 2007 Australian Open final. If you had you would know exactly what I am talking about. As for the 2004 WTA Championships if you saw that final that should be self explanatory as well.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:38 PM
After all I have seen the last 6 years is hard to ever bet against Serena in a matchup with Maria anytime, anywhere, on any surface, so I think that would answer your question. As to what I would have thought at the time, well surely you recall how the last 2 matches between Maria and Serena on a hard court before the 2008 Australian Open went, so that would also answer that question. It doesnt matter though, Serena couldnt even beat Jankovic, so obviously was not a worthy winner of the event.

As for my other comments obviously you did not read MSNBCs online predictions for the 2007 Australian Open final. If you had you would know exactly what I am talking about. As for the 2004 WTA Championships if you saw that final that should be self explanatory as well.

I read those lines and saw the final it's just has nothing to do with the thread.:help:

And you answered to my question, Serena can't always win and she knows it.
I don't care if Serena beat the crap out of Maria very badly those last years, I just know that Serena from OZ2008 would not have stand a chance against Pova from OZ 2008 just like Serena from US2006 wouldn't have either, this is why one of them won the title those years and the other one lost earlier. And it's not like it's never happened before, Serena got punished badly by Maria in 2004 (another year where Serena's form was dubious). PERIOD.

Royals.
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:42 PM
SHARAPOVAAA

Capriati is a BITCH. 2004 USO anyone?!

Kasey
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:27 PM
Peak Martha would be trashed by Peak Capriati.

Dominic
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:35 PM
Maria in two relatively confortable sets

Royals.
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:51 PM
Maria in two relatively confortable sets

Indeed.

Capriati is TRASH. 2004 USO was disgraceful!

In The Zone
Nov 22nd, 2012, 02:19 AM
Indeed.

Capriati is TRASH. 2004 USO was disgraceful!

Well, that obviously wasn't her peak. Maria 04 USO wasn't too great either. :shrug: Or how about Maria 10 OZ. :shrug: Let's just mention all the bad events and compare it to 01 OZ. Makes sense, right? No.

Peak Sharapova would win in 2 tight sets but let's have a legitimate conversation here and not be delusional.

In The Zone
Nov 22nd, 2012, 02:20 AM
I read those lines and saw the final it's just has nothing to do with the thread.:help:

And you answered to my question, Serena can't always win and she knows it.
I don't care if Serena beat the crap out of Maria very badly those last years, I just know that Serena from OZ2008 would not have stand a chance against Pova from OZ 2008 just like Serena from US2006 wouldn't have either, this is why one of them won the title those years and the other one lost earlier. And it's not like it's never happened before, Serena got punished badly by Maria in 2004 (another year where Serena's form was dubious). PERIOD.

Cling to that and your Silver Slam too while you're at it. Inferiority complex is OOZING.

Morning Morgan
Nov 22nd, 2012, 02:25 AM
SHARAPOVAAA

Capriati is a BITCH. 2004 USO anyone?!

Cool down your flaming cajones before you become impotent. :rolleyes:

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:43 AM
Cling to that and your Silver Slam too while you're at it. Inferiority complex is OOZING.

:lol: one thing is sure I'm not the bitter one here. Forehand27 is.
Do you see me questioning Serena's majors wins when we know that she couldn't win with Henin in the draw for a while, especially the one in 2007 when we know that Henin beat her in the next three majors ? No.
I give credit where it's due, this clown can't help it but question Maria's every single major win just because Serena own Maria :help:





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Royals.
Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:14 AM
Cool down your flaming cajones before you become impotent. :rolleyes:

Whatever! :rolleyes:

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2012, 09:20 AM
:lol: one thing is sure I'm not the bitter one here. Forehand27 is.
Do you see me questioning Serena's majors wins when we know that she couldn't win with Henin in the draw for a while, especially the one in 2007 when we know that Henin beat her in the next three majors ? No.
I give credit where it's due, this clown can't help it but question Maria's every single major win just because Serena own Maria :help:





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Serena couldn't win with Juju in the draw for a while, huh?! :lol: Ah the Mashatards.
Apart from that lil run in '07 with the wins at Wimby and U.S. open, the rivalry between Juju vs Serena was always clear. Juju wins on clay, Serena wins on the rest...and since Serena didn't win another RG, Juju's being there or not, has no bearings on Serena's slam winning ways.

Now contrast this to Masha..which major did she win recently again?! :lol:

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 10:52 AM
Serena couldn't win with Juju in the draw for a while, huh?! :lol: Ah the Mashatards.
Apart from that lil run in '07 with the wins at Wimby and U.S. open, the rivalry between Juju vs Serena was always clear. Juju wins on clay, Serena wins on the rest...and since Serena didn't win another RG, Juju's being there or not, has no bearings on Serena's slam winning ways.

Now contrast this to Masha..which major did she win recently again?! :lol:

What part of I do not question Serena's wins did you not understand :lol:

I just don't like the fact that just because Serena owns Maria, people want to put an asterisk next to Maria's wins.
Serena was in the draw and she lost earlier she doesn't deserve any credit.

But it doesn't really matter what people think cause as far as I'm concerned I already saw in Wimbledon 2004 that Serena in dubious form wouldn't be a tough opponent for Maria playing really well cause that's been the case in US2006, OZ2008 or even OZ2012 ( even though Maria didn't win that major she was playing well enough at this stage to beat Serena who lost to Makarova )

Just give credit where it's due and I will do the same.


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bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2012, 11:18 AM
What part of I do not question Serena's wins did you not understand :lol:

I just don't like the fact that just because Serena owns Maria, people want to put an asterisk next to Maria's wins.
Serena was in the draw and she lost earlier she doesn't deserve any credit.

But it doesn't really matter what people think cause as far as I'm concerned I already saw in Wimbledon 2004 that Serena in dubious form wouldn't be a tough opponent for Maria playing really well cause that's been the case in US2006, OZ2008 or even OZ2012 ( even though Maria didn't win that major she was playing well enough at this stage to beat Serena who lost to Makarova )

Just give credit where it's due and I will do the same.


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You shouldn't have made the comparison to begin with. That already was your first mistake. Even with Juju in the draw..a healthy and fit Serena only has to worry about that on clay. The rest of the surfaces it doesn't matter WHO is there or not, because Serena already has shown that she can beat them all.

Maria HASN'T..even at her best, there are player who CAN beat her. So that's why people can say: she got lucky breaks here and there.

I don't..because you beat who's in front of you. No excuses...but you should really learn: what applies to Maria doesn't always apply to Serena..because they're at different levels gamewise.

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 11:44 AM
Maria HASN'T..even at her best, there are player who CAN beat her. So that's why people can say: she got lucky breaks here and there.

Tell this to someone else, you will never make me believe that Serena could have beat Maria in those respective events, just NO.
When you lose to the likes of Makarova, Jankovic or even Mauresmo you don't get to talk.
Serena was aggressively bad in those majors hence her losses to lesser players than Maria, and Maria ended up winning that's all you need to know.

You guys are insane, not only you want credit when Serena wins but you also want to share credit when she got her ass handed to scrubs :lol: that's not gonna work.


I don't..because you beat who's in front of you. No excuses...but you should really learn: what applies to Maria doesn't always apply to Serena..because they're at different levels gamewise.

Lucky breaks etc... To me it seems that you're using excuses and not giving credit as well but it doesn't matter.


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bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2012, 12:50 PM
Tell this to someone else, you will never make me believe that Serena could have beat Maria in those respective events, just NO.
When you lose to the likes of Makarova, Jankovic or even Mauresmo you don't get to talk.
Serena was aggressively bad in those majors hence her losses to lesser players than Maria, and Maria ended up winning that's all you need to know.

You guys are insane, not only you want credit when Serena wins but you also want to share credit when she got her ass handed to scrubs :lol: that's not gonna work.




Lucky breaks etc... To me it seems that you're using excuses and not giving credit as well but it doesn't matter.


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And who says I do?! :shrug: Serena lost, that's the end of it..that's not Maria's problem.
I already said that I don't play the game of lucky breaks, this that..

But since you're the one who brought it up to begin with when you start talking Serena catching break when Juju lost, I pointed out that it might well be Maria who got the biggest break with Juju's retirement.


For the rest, not much to be said.

Dominic
Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:10 PM
Maria HASN'T..even at her best, there are player who CAN beat her. So that's why people can say: she got lucky breaks here and there.


I think you know that's crap. Maria woul've slugged anyone that would've been on her way in 06 nad 08, including Serena in the form she was.

bandabou
Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:33 PM
I think you know that's crap. Maria woul've slugged anyone that would've been on her way in 06 nad 08, including Serena in the form she was.

The match didn't happen, Serena lost...so it doesn't matter, no?! :shrug:

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 03:31 PM
The match didn't happen, Serena lost...so it doesn't matter, no?! :shrug:

It does matter when you say that you can understand if some people believe that Serena could have beat Maria or that she had a lucky break.
I hear that you don't believe it but other people can according to you and just because Serena usually owns Maria.




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Gagsquet
Nov 22nd, 2012, 04:04 PM
Who is Capriati?

forehand27
Nov 22nd, 2012, 04:21 PM
The main point we were all making is any event Serena is playing well enough to win, which she obviously was any of the slams she won from 2008-2010 she is not going to lose to Maria. Thus any slams Serena wins, were already a write off for Maria having a chance to win in any form. The events being proposed Maria could have/would have beaten Serena in are events Serena wasnt playing well enough to win, and wouldnt have won even with Maria not entered as she lost to someone else in each, so are completely irrelevant to the point.

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 05:21 PM
The main point we were all making is any event Serena is playing well enough to win, which she obviously was any of the slams she won from 2008-2010 she is not going to lose to Maria. Thus any slams Serena wins, were already a write off for Maria having a chance to win in any form. The events being proposed Maria could have/would have beaten Serena in are events Serena wasnt playing well enough to win, and wouldnt have won even with Maria not entered as she lost to someone else in each, so are completely irrelevant to the point.

You started it by saying this. Don't backpedal now.

After all I have seen the last 6 years is hard to ever bet against Serena in a matchup with Maria anytime, anywhere, on any surface, so I think that would answer your question. As to what I would have thought at the time, well surely you recall how the last 2 matches between Maria and Serena on a hard court before the 2008 Australian Open went, so that would also answer that question.

GAGAlady
Nov 22nd, 2012, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Gagsquet;22506788]Who is Capriati?[/QUOT

She's a former world number 1 multiple grand slam gold medal winning female tennis player... The youngest female to turn pro and actually beat great players and she is also a hall of famer

... Oh and she also smacked sharapovas tushy around the very year Marsha won her vaunted Wimbledon title.

Yawn. And this was CAPRIATI at 60 percent. A 60 percent CAPRIATI smacked a 95 percent sharapova into the ground.

:tape: the footage is available to those who disbelieve...:wavey:

NashaMasha
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=Gagsquet;22506788]Who is Capriati?[/QUOT

She's a former world number 1 multiple grand slam gold medal winning female tennis player... The youngest female to turn pro and actually beat great players and she is also a hall of famer

... Oh and she also smacked sharapovas tushy around the very year Marsha won her vaunted Wimbledon title.

Yawn. And this was CAPRIATI at 60 percent. A 60 percent CAPRIATI smacked a 95 percent sharapova into the ground.

:tape: the footage is available to those who disbelieve...:wavey:

Sharapova was Cow on ice in 2004 on clay and still won a set vs top clay player

The result would've been different on any other surface

Gagsquet
Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:27 PM
Thanks gagalady, I never heard about this Capriati until now.

$uricate
Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:34 PM
Probably Maria.

I like JCap but her slam wins were kinda gifted to her in the finals.

Peak Maria a la 2004 Wimbledon final and 2008 Aussie Open was breathtaking (as much as some will say otherwise).

I've never seen Capriati as good as that :shrug:

GAGAlady
Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:58 PM
[QUOTE=GAGAlady;22506989]

Sharapova was Cow on ice in 2004 on clay and still won a set vs top clay player

The result would've been different on any other surface

Listen I don't doubt Maria would win on certain surfaces... But it wouldn't be a blowout and I don't agree she would smash Jen to bits. Grass would certainly be sharapovas to lose mainly because of her first strike tennis.

Hard courts and clay? Another story there entirely.

Jen would win on clay 95 percent of the time and Jen would have a decent shot at sharpy Jen had the ability to hit winners too she was a bit more conservative in her shotmaking but she could end the point if she choose to at her peak. And people always bash her serve? If she was one jens serve was decent. People forget that. And she can volley a hell of a lot better than Maria. And don't call that swinging volley a volley. It's a sideways smash. Seriously people...:help::lol:

Smitten
Nov 23rd, 2012, 04:13 AM
Sharapova on all surfaces. Bad matchup for Jennifer.

hingisGOAT
Nov 23rd, 2012, 04:41 AM
A few people have said Capriati never blew anyone away in her "peak", and while this is correct, what about Sharapova? What match has she ever played against a top player that was truly dominant? W '04 and USO '06 were good matches but nothing spectacular, as her opponents played poorly and Maria still made a lot of errors herself. And AO '08, Henin was clearly washed-up at that point. I don't think I've ever seen Maria put in a clean, comprehensive, dominant performance against worthy opposition.

So we have Maria making a bunch of errors and Jennifer playing her "power pushing" game. Yawn. Jennifer was certainly the more talented of the two (but a worse vulture).

Dominic
Nov 23rd, 2012, 05:08 AM
A few people have said Capriati never blew anyone away in her "peak", and while this is correct, what about Sharapova? What match has she ever played against a top player that was truly dominant? W '04 and USO '06 were good matches but nothing spectacular, as her opponents played poorly and Maria still made a lot of errors herself. And AO '08,

:haha: way to contradict yourself in the same few lines