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forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:35 PM
Both have a career slam. Both won only 4 slams. Who has the edge with both playing their best. :lol: Of note Fry at her career peak won 3 grand slams in a row. Maria's shortest time frame between slams is 17 months.

Vincey!
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:19 PM
Again you're still trying to throw shades at Sharapova. First Maria's career ain't over so she may finish with more than 4 slams. Secondly, Fry played in a era where tennis wasn't strong and that the GS surfaces were omly grass and clay.

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:26 PM
Again you're still trying to throw shades at Sharapova. First Maria's career ain't over so she may finish with more than 4 slams. Secondly, Fry played in a era where tennis wasn't strong and that the GS surfaces were omly grass and clay.

What is the shame in being compared to Shirley Fry. Shirley Fry is a great player who like Maria won all 4 slams, like Maria holds 4 slam titles, and who to win her slams beat legendary opponents such as Louise Brough and Althea Gibson. Fry at her peak was also a dominant player who won 3 slams in a row, she had excellent longevity and was near the top of the game and making slam finals over a whole decade. She was equally proficient from both net and backcourt, and was an excellent defender who could also attack. She also was one of the great doubles players. If anything it is an honor for Maria to be deemed worthy of the comparision.

As for Fry playing in a weak era her era was one that included Connolly, Brough, Osborne Du Pont, Hart, Gibson, hardly weak.

J4m3ka
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:44 PM
:hysteric:

madmax
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:45 PM
LMAO..who is this clown and what is his original account?

Chrissie-fan
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:10 AM
Again you're still trying to throw shades at Sharapova. First Maria's career ain't over so she may finish with more than 4 slams. Secondly, Fry played in a era where tennis wasn't strong and that the GS surfaces were only grass and clay.
That's very debatable, but it's impossible to imagine how they would do h2h anyway because in which era is this match supposed to take place? In Fry's or in Sharapova's? Seems logical to assume that in the 50's playing with the equipment of that time that Fry would have won and that today playing with todays sticks that Maria would win. Forehand27 doesn't strike me as exactly the biggest Sharapova fan on the planet, but he/she knows his/her tennis history, that's for sure. :)

NashaMasha
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:25 AM
99% of TF haven't seen a single match of SFI.

What is the reason of opening this idiotic thread? I will understand it if you opened a thread to compare achievements , but peak vs peak is pure B.S.

Well deserved Bad Rep

Helen Lawson
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:37 PM
Ha, ha!! Truth hurts. Three consecutive majors, including the Wimbledon-U.S. Open back-to-back and a slam final win over Althea Gibson. Oh, and that little thing called a career Grand Slam in doubles as well.

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 10:54 PM
Wow tied 8 to 8, even though most people here dont even have a clue who Fry is. Fry must really be the better player peak to peak in that case.

Her winning 3 slams in a row, beating the great Althea Gibson just after her first slam win and just before her total dominance of the womens game in straight sets in 2 slam finals in a row, and her amazing success in all of singles, doubles, and mixed doubles should pretty much the seal the deal anyway though.

Helen Lawson
Nov 20th, 2012, 11:16 PM
She also took Mo to three sets in a US Open also, I think. Wimbledon and the US Open were all that in the 50s, and she won them back-to-back. Truly impressive player.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:08 AM
this thread is hilarious ))))

Shirley fry was 5' 5" tall , she would probably serve like Errani nowadays( even if she had studied tennis in 90s) and this is peak vs peak thread,

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:11 AM
^^ This thread is hilarious. When your girl wins Wimbledon and the U.S. Open back to back, then maybe she has a shot against Shirley Fry, but until then, it's not really a contest.

Trickle
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:14 AM
The image of Maria trying to play with a wooden racquet... especially with her grunt. :hysteric:

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 12:33 AM
^^ This thread is hilarious. When your girl wins Wimbledon and the U.S. Open back to back, then maybe she has a shot against Shirley Fry, but until then, it's not really a contest.

"back to back" slams are pure BS , unless it's 4 in a row . It's not even close to winning CGS on 4 different surfaces compared to 2 different surfaces

Stefan Edberg and Ivan Lendl never won back to back Slams , but who cares about this invented by some TF-trolls useless achievement

dragonflies
Nov 21st, 2012, 01:29 AM
"back to back" slams are pure BS , unless it's 4 in a row . It's not even close to winning CGS on 4 different surfaces compared to 2 different surfaces

Stefan Edberg and Ivan Lendl never won back to back Slams , but who cares about this invented by some TF-trolls useless achievement








hehehe, This thread is indeed hilarious, Ninja granny vs shrieking skinny young girl :lol:


And no, winning back to back Slam, especially in the same year is not BS. It's a remarkable feat to achieve since naturally most players would be overwhelmed with all the fame, press, parties and distraction after winning a Slam so they can't be focused on the next Slam and a let down would be happen inevitably.


Futhermore, winning a Slam takes a lot out of a player. Most players, except the greats would be so exhausted physically and mentally, so to bring out another god-like performance for the next Slam would be too much to ask. The new Slam winners will be the target for everyone at the very next Slam. Just look at what happened to Ivanovic, Kuzy, Myskina, Kvitova, Na, Sam, Francesca, etc... after they won their first Slam. Even great players like Justine, Kim couldn't win 2 Slams back to back in the same year ( they won the USO and AO back to back, but noticed this 2 Slams has an off season break in between so they were able to recharge their batteries).

Kairi
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:25 AM
:haha: Fry.....Why is this even a question?

Kairi
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:26 AM
this thread is hilarious ))))

Shirley fry was 5' 5" tall , she would probably serve like Errani nowadays( even if she had studied tennis in 90s) and this is peak vs peak thread,

GM turned into a mockery forum about Peak vs Peak , whereas only about 5% of matches are really close to peak vs peak

7-8 of them about Masha including this bullshit http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=471334... But when i opened a thread about some Gen Suck players the first answer is "mods . pls close it"

:baby::baby::baby::baby:

englando08
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:33 AM
Shirley Fry 6-2, 6-3.

JamieOwen3
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:34 AM
LAWD, These peak threads are talking over GM like demons. Exorcism needed, STAT!

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af264/JamieOwen3/a2annm.gif

Doully
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:43 AM
Dead at Mashabators voting seriously in this :hysteric:!!!!!!!!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdkd3h7gxf1raj3lbo1_500.gif

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 02:45 AM
Dead at Mashabators voting seriously in this :hysteric:!!!!!!!!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdkd3h7gxf1raj3lbo1_500.gif

Why not , Reetards are doing it too :)

bobito
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:10 AM
this thread is hilarious ))))

Shirley fry was 5' 5" tall , she would probably serve like Errani nowadays( even if she had studied tennis in 90s) and this is peak vs peak thread,

I suspect Fry would do better in today's game than Sharapova would have done in Fry's era, with a wooden racquet that required precision rather than power.

In any case, two career slams (singles and doubles) is better than one so my vote goes to Fry.

doomsday
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:02 AM
LMAO..who is this clown and what is his original account?

You don't wanna know :lol:


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Chrissie-fan
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:32 AM
Fry played in a era where tennis wasn't strong...
With contemporaries like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Doris Hart (also a career grand slammer), Angela Mortimer and in her early career even GOAT contender Maureen Connolly making up the opposition I don't think hers was a poor era at all. I don't think that leaving aside perhaps the very early days of the game that any era was really weak. Usually an era becomes weak or strong depending on the point one tries to prove. When making the argument that Serena is the greatest player in history or trying to asses Maria's remarkable return back to form of (roughly) the last 18 months the current era is reffered to as very tough with a deeper field than ever before. When talking about Schiavone's or Li's slam victories or Wozniacki's 67 week reign as #1 the current crop all of a sudden becomes 'generation suck.'

In a way the comparison between Fry and Sharapova is a bit unfair because as you say Maria isn't done yet and potentially still has three or four years to go where she will try to add to her resumé. I never understand peak threads anyway, especially not when it comes to players who come from a totally different era.

If it means, "how would a match between them pan out" it depends on in which era that fictional match would take place - in this case Fry's or Sharapova's, and it's impossible to say for sure how well if given the time one would be able to adapt to the other ones equipment and in Fry's case the physicality of todays game.

If it means "who had the better run when playing her best" it's Fry because three slams in a row is pretty hard to argue against.

If it means career vs career (which is the only one that really makes sense to me) it's harder to asses since both have four slams, but I don't think that the careers away from the slams of pre-open players like Fry is documented as well as those of the WTA era. But going by slam results only:

WINS: four each
RUNNER-UP: Fry - four / Sharapova - three
SF: Fry - six / Sharapova - eight
QF: Fry - eight / Sharapova - three

Pretty even I think, although one must take into condideration that Fry played the Australian Championships just once (she won), but on the other hand Sharapova has 128 player draws to content with. Taking all of the above into consideration I think that a career vs career comparison between the two is too close to call at this point, but it's likely that in years to come Sharapova will surpass Fry.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:49 PM
"back to back" slams are pure BS , unless it's 4 in a row . It's not even close to winning CGS on 4 different surfaces compared to 2 different surfaces


LOL its pure BS only since your fave couldnt do it I suppose. At the very least in a PEAK thread multiple slams in a row are of huge importance, since they prove the ability to DOMINATE for a period of time, and dominating > never dominating as far as peak play goes. Fry in 56-early 57 dominated tennis by winning 3 slams in a row. Maria at whatever her peak is never dominated tennis.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:52 PM
Again you're still trying to throw shades at Sharapova. First Maria's career ain't over so she may finish with more than 4 slams. Secondly, Fry played in a era where tennis wasn't strong and that the GS surfaces were omly grass and clay.

How many slams Maria ends with is irrelevant to a peak thread anyway, unless she ever surpasses her previous peak (be that 2004, 2006, or late 2007/early 2008). Fry won 3 slams in a row, beating the great Althea Gibson close to her own dominant period in straight sets in 2 of them. Unless Maria matches something like that with some semblance of competition like Fry had with Brough, Gibson, and Hart, all legends playing, peak play would still go to Fry.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:53 PM
LOL its pure BS only since your fave couldnt do it I suppose. At the very least in a PEAK thread multiple slams in a row are of huge importance, since they prove the ability to DOMINATE for a period of time, and dominating > never dominating as far as peak play goes. Fry in 56-early 57 dominated tennis by winning 3 slams in a row. Maria at whatever her peak is never dominated tennis.

probably because Maria had to play in the time when not only USA/Australia/UK/France were playing tennis

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:55 PM
probably because Maria had to play in the time when not only USA/Australia/UK/France were playing tennis

Maria has had the opportunity to play in weaker eras than the ones Fry ever played in. Fry's whole career had atleast 3 of Connolly, Brough, Du Pont, Gibson, and Fry playing at a very high level. Sharapova according to her own fans is reaching a new peak in the self entitled mug era where other than a 31 year old Serena everyone else sucks, and still cant come close to the same success (and for all her ownage at Serena's hands, Serena has very little to do with that in a sense as they have only played in 1 slam since January 2007 now).

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:56 PM
Maria has had the opportunity to play in weaker eras than the ones Fry ever played in. Fry's whole career had atleast 3 of Connolly, Brough, Du Pont, Gibson, and Fry playing at a very high level. Sharapova according to her own fans is reaching a new peak in the self entitled mug era where other than a 31 year old Serena everyone else sucks, and still cant come close to the same success (and for all her ownage at Serena's hands, Serena has very little to do with that in a sense as they have only played in 1 slam since January 2007 now).


31 y.o serena is still more than anyone in 50s and 2004- 2008 field was stronger than any in history

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:56 PM
Fry was also playing doubles and mixed at all of these events.

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:58 PM
31 y.o serena is still more than anyone in 50s

Really? Shirley Fry took Maureen Connelly to three sets in the 50s. Connelly is considered by many to be greater than Serena. When's the last time Sharapova even took Serena to three sets?

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM
Really? Shirley Fry took Maureen Connelly to three sets in the 50s. Connelly is considered by many to be greater than Serena. When's the last time Sharapova even took Serena to three sets?

just before Shoulder surgery in Charleston 2008
and anyone except Graf and maybe Navratilova being stronger opposition than Serena -:help::tape:

madmax
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM
Really? Shirley Fry took Maureen Connelly to three sets in the 50s. Connelly is considered by many to be greater than Serena. When's the last time Sharapova even took Serena to three sets?

individual matchups have nothing to do with players's greatness...if that was the case, Pironkova would be a greater grass player than Hasbeenus.:wavey: Either way, for all her current mental issues vs Williams, Pova still got her maiden slam by blitzing Serenka off the court in Wimby final. And at the end of the day this match will still be remembered the most when evaluating her whole career...

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:06 PM
31 y.o serena is still more than anyone in 50s and 2004- 2008 field was stronger than any in history

LOL the 1999-2003 field alone was stronger than 2004-2008. An era totally dominated by Justine Henin (Henin won 7 slams from mid 2003-her retirement in mid 2008, over double anyone else that period, and was year end #1 3 of those 5 years) is not the strongest in history, sorry. So was the 1989-1992 field.

As I already mentioned Serena has nothing to do with Maria's failure to win more slams even vs the current really weak field which is arguably the worst in history. She has only played Serena in one slam since January 2007, the round of 16 at Wimbledon 2010 at a time she was in a long stretch not getting past the quarters of any slam anyway. While it is true Maria probably isnt peaking as far as level of play now, in theory Fry had even less reason to be peaking in late 56/early 57 when she was in her 30s IIRC.

Sammo
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:14 PM
I thought Shirley Fry was an actress :hysteric:

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:15 PM
LOL the 1999-2003 field alone was stronger than 2004-2008. An era totally dominated by Justine Henin (Henin won 7 slams from mid 2003-her retirement in mid 2008, over double anyone else that period, and was year end #1 3 of those 5 years) is not the strongest in history, sorry. So was the 1989-1992 field.



Why do you split eras in parts with 2003 being borderline? Steffi's era finished in 1999-99 and after Hingis's transitional era a new era started - Serena's

2001 - 2008 Serena 8 Slams , Justine 7 Slams

It's really weired how Justine was dominating Serena having only 2 wins outside clay versus her

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:19 PM
individual matchups have nothing to do with players's greatness...if that was the case, Pironkova would be a greater grass player than Hasbeenus.:wavey: Either way, for all her current mental issues vs Williams, Pova still got her maiden slam by blitzing Serenka off the court in Wimby final. And at the end of the day this match will still be remembered the most when evaluating her whole career...

They have a lot to do with these peak threads because the only way to gauge a player of one era against another to compare them to how they handled their peers.

Sharapova's huge win over Serena is career-defining, but by the same token, winning 3 slams in a row, two in straight sets against Althea Gibson, is just as huge, even more so. Unless she does something in the next few years, Sharapova will be just as forgotten in 50 years as that Nasha Masha tard claims Fry is.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:25 PM
Why do you split eras in parts with 2003 being borderline? Steffi's era finished in 1999-99 and after Hingis's transitional era a new era started - Serena's

2001 - 2008 Serena 8 Slams , Justine 7 Slams

It's really weired how Justine was dominating Serena having only 2 wins outside clay versus her

LOL so now you are suddenly talking about and trying to mix in years like 2001 and 2002 when Maria was not even playing pro tennis to build up the 2004-2008 era where Maria peaked. The fact you are going back to 2001 is just proving that I am correct and you know it, 2004-2008 is NOT the strongest era of womens tennis, 1999-2003 was stronger, or if you wish to dismiss 1999 were the top 5 were Serena in her breakout year, the great Steffi Graf, Lindsay Davenport at her absolute peak, Martina Hingis at her absolute peak, Venus despite note winning a slam in one of her best years ever with 6 titles on a variety of surfaces, 2000-2003.

As for Justine and Serena, of course Justine wasnt beating Serena much outside of clay when Justine and Serena didnt even play a single match from July 2003 until March 2007. Which shows another point, Serena was mostly irrelevant the 2004-2008 period (until 2008 and a bit of 2007, where btw Henin beat Serena in 3 slams on 3 different surfaces with Serena finally surfacing as a relevance after being AWOL that whole period until then which proves again the period you are trying to build up as best ever is one dominated by Henin who is barely or not even a top 10 player all time), so was Venus who like Serena won only 1 slam and mostly inactive from 2004-2006, and yet you are still trying to build this period up as the best ever since it was Maria's peak period. Desperate much. :lol:

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:25 PM
They have a lot to do with these peak threads because the only way to gauge a player of one era against another to compare them to how they handled their peers.

Sharapova's huge win over Serena is career-defining, but by the same token, winning 3 slams in a row, two in straight sets against Althea Gibson, is just as huge, even more so. Unless she does something in the next few years, Sharapova will be just as forgotten in 50 years as that Nasha Masha tard claims Fry is.

:lol::lol: Kournikova isn't forgotten despite not winning a single title ... try harder

SFI's Australian title - is a Tier II title , bit I think Stuttgart 2012 had stronger field than that challenger + Gibson tournament in 1957


LOL so now you are talking about years like 2001 and 2002 when Maria was not even playing pro tennis to build up that era.

if we take only period when Maria played since becoming top player to her surgety it's 2004- wimbledon 2008
Henin -5 Slams
Sharapova -3 Slams
Venus - 3 Slams
Serena - 2 Slams
Amelie - 2 Slams
Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Myskina, Ivanovic - 1 Slam

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:28 PM
:lol::lol: Kournikova isn't forgotten despite not winning a single title ... try harder


A Kournikova reference. In other words implying despite being chasms more successful than can barely play pro level tennis Kournikova, Sharapova in the long run will be much more remembered for beauty, glamor, and endorsements than her tennis career. OK in that case I agree. :lol:

PS- hardly anyone talks about Kournikova today. Now that other glamor girls who all play better tennis than her like Sharapova, Hantuchova, and Ivanovic have emerged she is virtually forgotten. So not a very good example.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:35 PM
if we take only period when Maria played since becoming top player to her surgety it's 2004- wimbledon 2008
Henin -5 Slams
Sharapova -3 Slams
Venus - 3 Slams
Serena - 2 Slams
Amelie - 2 Slams
Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Myskina, Ivanovic - 1 Slam

So you only prove my point, Henin was by far the dominant player of the period you mention. Multiple more slams than anyone else, 2 WTA Championships and Olympic singles Gold on top of those slams (nobody else won more than 1 of those), and year end #1 of both 2006 and 2007, while spending significant time at #1 in both 2004 and 2008 as well, while the only other year end #1s Davenport and Jankovic produced 0 slams that period. So you are trying to argue an era dominated by Justine Henin was the toughest ever in tennis history. :lol: Not to mention trying to argue an era Ivanovic could make 3 slam finals in 13 months, Myskina could win a slam, Mauresmo could win 2 slams in the same year, and a past her prime Davenport who hadnt won a slam in 5 years ending back to back years as year end #1, as the toughest in tennis history. :help:

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:39 PM
A Kournikova reference. In other words implying despite being chasms more successful than can barely play pro level tennis Kournikova, Sharapova in the long run will be much more remembered for beauty, glamor, and endorsements than her tennis career. OK in that case I agree. :lol:

PS- hardly anyone talks about Kournikova today. Now that other glamor girls who all play better tennis than her like Sharapova, Hantuchova, and Ivanovic have emerged she is virtually forgotten. So not a very good example.

you will have to wait for a long-long time before girl who plays better tennis and has better look than Sharapova emerges

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:40 PM
So you only prove my point, Henin was by far the dominant player of the period you mention. Multiple more slams than anyone else, 2 WTA Championships and Olympic singles Gold on top of those slams (nobody else won more than 1 of those), and year end #1 of both 2006 and 2007, while spending significant time at #1 in both 2004 and 2008 as well, while the only other year end #1s Davenport and Jankovic produced 0 slams that period. So you are trying to argue an era dominated by Justine Henin was the toughest ever in tennis history. :lol: Not to mention trying to argue an era Ivanovic could make 3 slam finals in 13 months, Myskina could win a slam, and Mauresmo could win 2 slams in the same year as the toughest in tennis history. :help:

Sharapova won 2 Slams beating that dominant player , what gives even more credit to her achievements

Kon.
Nov 21st, 2012, 04:41 PM
I'm sure all of you taking this seriously are very aware of what Shirley Fry's peak level was.

Chrissie-fan
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:09 PM
Unless she does something in the next few years, Sharapova will be just as forgotten in 50 years as that Nasha Masha tard claims Fry is.
Probably not, because Sharapova played in the television age while we only know Fry from the history books or a few short poor-ish quality clips from which no-one gets any the wiser. But I'm sure that most tennis afficionados at least know the name of Shirley Fry and 50 years from now they will also recognize the name of Sharapova. As for anyone else - who cares? I don't think it's that important that people who are not even interested in tennis to begin with know the names of players from fifty years ago.

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:47 PM
I'm sure all of you taking this seriously are very aware of what Shirley Fry's peak level was.

Yes, three slams in a row, with two straight set wins over Gibson, who people still hold in awe today. The only man or woman today who has a career Grand Slam in single and doubles like Shirley Fry is Serena. And Navratilova before her.

Next.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:56 PM
Yes, three slams in a row, with two straight set wins over Gibson, who people still hold in awe today. The only man or woman today who has a career Grand Slam in single and doubles like Shirley Fry is Serena. And Navratilova before her.

Next.

is Helen Wills greater than Serena and should she win in peak vs peak thread ?

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 05:56 PM
Sharapova won 2 Slams beating that dominant player , what gives even more credit to her achievements

Except that I am not saying this dominant player of that era was that great. This player isnt even considered a top 10 womens player all time. I am simply mocking the idea you are saying an era totally dominated by a player not even top 10 all time was the "toughest era ever". For the record Fry beating Gibson in back to back slam finals on GRASS is more impressive. Had Maria beaten prime Henin in back to back French Opens it would top it (but lol at Maria ever managing that even once, let alone twice).

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:00 PM
is Helen Wills greater than Serena and should she win in peak vs peak thread ?

Serena is generally regarded as having the highest peak level of play of any women in history, so no, but if someone should come close to or ever beat Serena in such a thread Helen Wills would be one of the handful who would. The highest peak levels of play by women are probably in no particular order Serena, Wills, Graf, Navratilova, Lenglen, Connolly, and possibly Venus of mid 2000-end of 2001. Court and Evert are definitely way up there on a GOAT list but didnt have the highest peak level of play.

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:02 PM
is Helen Wills greater than Serena and should she win in peak vs peak thread ?

She probably should, I'd go with Wills over Serena. She managed 19 slams without ever playing the Australian and has more slams than Serena at the other three by a lot. Serena's clay record is dismal next to the greats she's now compared with. Serena beats the hell out of everyone behind her in slam count, but she's got major problems against the likes of Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Wills, and Court in the GOAT debate.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM
Except that I am not this dominant player of that era was that great. This player isnt even considered a top 10 womens player all time. I am simply mocking the idea you are saying an era totally dominated by a player not even top 10 all time was the "toughest era ever".

you are still comparing achievements in kindergarten eras with the era of global tennis, in which not only 4 countries are competing
Henin is top 10 player all time , despite she has less Slams than some players from the past , but in contemporary era winning a Slam = tougher job, when tennis has become professional and global it's quite silly to underestimate Henin's achievements

TennisChannel put Henin in top 10 female tennis players

Helen Lawson
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:04 PM
you are still comparing achievements in kindergarten eras with the era of global tennis, in which not only 4 countries are competing
Henin is top 10 player all time , despite she has less Slams than some players from the past , but in contemporary era winning a Slam = tougher job, when tennis has become professional and global it's quite silly to underestimate Henin's achievements

Henin is not even close to Top 10 of all time, are you on drugs?

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:06 PM
Yes factoring in all surfaces one could even go with Wills over Serena. No question peak to peak Wills is much greater than Serena on clay (and I am a big Serena fan) while peak to peak on grass it would be very close. Wills in fact might be the greatest grass court player ever considering she averaged 7.5 at the 2 grass slams she ever played (didnt play a single Australian Open) vs Graf who averaged 7 grass slams at the 1 grass slam she played, Court who averaged 6.3 at the 3 she played (benefiting greatly from joke fields at the Oz in that ratio), and Navratilova who averaged 6 grass slams at the 2 grass slams she played. Then hard courts, well Wills never got to play on that so you cant compare but her game would have been perfect for hard courts. I dont know her indoor stats but Serena doesnt even play much indoors anyway, so Wills would probably have the edge there too.

Wills Moody is 3rd all time in slam wins, trailing only the asterixed numbers of Court (Australian Open) and Graf (Seles stabbing), and has the most combined French/Wimbledon/U.S Opens in history. She totally dominated for 7 years, scared the great Lenglen into retirement, and won virtually every match or major event she entered for about 12 years.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:07 PM
Henin is not even close to Top 10 of all time, are you on drugs?

it's not just my opinion http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20120327/top-100/

There are a number of people who rate achievements in the era when tennis was a game just for rich people from certain countries and with low competition less than achievements when it became global

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:11 PM
you are still comparing achievements in kindergarten eras with the era of global tennis, in which not only 4 countries are competing
Henin is top 10 player all time , despite she has less Slams than some players from the past , but in contemporary era winning a Slam = tougher job, when tennis has become professional and global it's quite silly to underestimate Henin's achievements

TennisChannel put Henin in top 10 female tennis players

Just scanned your posting history with the words Henin as I was sure I would find some inconsistencies in your claims, and it seems you once argued Henin was an inferior player to Evonne Goolagong in another thread. So no you do not view Henin as a top 10 player all time if you view her as even inferior to Goolagong, and are just saying that as it now becomes a neccessity to build Maria and her "competition" and most of all her not so great peak era you are trying to hype up. That is unless you are now going to argue Goolagong is a top 10 player of all time which would be even more hilarious, especialy when she won only 3 non Australians, and played in what by your logic was probably the kindergarten area too. :lol: Just give it up already, you keep sinking deeper and deeper.

A decade which featured Bueno, Hart, Du Pont, Gibson, Fry, Bueno, and the great Maureen Connolly is anything but a kindergarten area. In fact Maria has never experienced an era like that, other than maybe the tail end of one when she first started.


As for Henin the top 10 all time is undisputably in no particular order (stupid Tennis Channel list which gave up all credability when they placed Emerson 11 spots higher than Gonzales) Lenglen, Wills, Graf, Seles, King, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Connolly, and Serena. The next tier after that would be Venus, Bueno, Henin, Gibson, Chambers, and possibly Brough and Du Pont. So Henin is somewhere from 11th to 17th all time, not top 10.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:22 PM
Just scanned your posting history with the words Henin as I was sure I would find some inconsistencies in your claims, and it seems you once argued Henin was an inferior player to Evonne Goolagong in another thread. So no you do not view Henin as a top 10 player all time if you view her as even inferior to Goolagong, and are just saying that as it now becomes a neccessity to build Maria and her "competition" and most of all her not so great peak era you are trying to hype up. That is unless you are now going to argue Goolagong is a top 10 player of all time which would be even more hilarious, especialy when she won only 3 non Australians, and played in what by your logic was probably the kindergarten area too. :lol: Just give it up already, you keep sinking deeper and deeper.

A decade which featured Bueno, Hart, Du Pont, Gibson, Fry, Bueno, and the great Maureen Connolly is anything but a kindergarten area. In fact Maria has never experienced an era like that, other than maybe the tail end of one when she first started.


As for Henin the top 10 all time is undisputably in no particular order (stupid Tennis Channel list which gave up all credability when they placed Emerson 11 spots higher than Gonzales) Lenglen, Wills, Graf, Seles, King, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Connolly, and Serena. The next tier after that would be Venus, Bueno, Henin, Gibson, Chambers, and possibly Brough and Du Pont. So Henin is somewhere from 11th to 17th all time, not top 10.

you are mixing peak vs peak and achivements vs achievements ....

Now check the title

i will pick Henin in any peak vs peak vs players of 50s or 20s

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:25 PM
you are mixing peak vs peak and achivements vs achievements ....


When it comes to Fry and Sharapova it is irrelevant since Fry is superior in both.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:25 PM
i will pick Henin in any peak vs peak vs players of 50s or 20s

Well if a time machine is ever invented and peak Henin is put on court vs peak Lenglen, Wills, and Connolly prepare to be very very wrong. Henin will probably come off the court with such a butt whooping vs those three she will be crying to play peak Serena on grass instead.

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:26 PM
When it comes to Fry and Sharapova it is irrelevant since Fry is superior in both.

only in your delusional fantasies

Well if a time machine is ever invented and peak Henin is put on court vs peak Lenglen, Wills, and Connolly prepare to be very very wrong. Henin will probably come off the court with such a butt whooping vs those three she will be crying to play peak Serena on grass instead.
if there is a player(among contemporary era players) , who would be successful in the past , it's Henin

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:30 PM
only in your delusional fantasies

The poll results and the FACTS (it has already been outlined to you how Fry's achievements and peak period production were vastly superior to Sharapova, born out in all numbers, and your weak competition claims of that period were also easily dismissed) both say otherwise.

if there is a player(among contemporary era players) , who would be successful in the past , it's Henin

I doubt that. Henin at 5"5, and built like a smurf, wouldnt be able to produce hardly any power with a less modern racquet.

Chrissie-fan
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:34 PM
if there is a player (among contemporary era players) , who would be successful in the past , it's Henin
That's probably true, yes. But nevertheless we'll never know for a fact how she would match up against a Connolly or Wills. But my guess would be that she at the very least would be competitive. :)

NashaMasha
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:38 PM
I doubt that. Henin at 5"5, and built like a smurf, wouldnt be able to produce hardly any power with a less modern racquet.


SFI - also 5'5" so your supposition is also delusional

Chrissie-fan
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:40 PM
I doubt that. Henin at 5"5, and built like a smurf, wouldnt be able to produce hardly any power with a less modern racquet.
But she's very crafty.

I find it remarkable how people on either side of the issue can be so sure of what the're saying though. It's almost as though they were there to witness the fact. :lol:

young_gunner913
Nov 21st, 2012, 06:48 PM
31 y.o serena is still more than anyone in 50s and 2004- 2008 field was stronger than any in history

You can't train someone to be this ignorant. Marthatards are a stain in the tennis world.

forehand27
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:18 PM
SFI - also 5'5" so your supposition is also delusional

Note I did not just make reference to her height but also her petite build. Rod Laver is only 5"8 which for a man is as short as a 5"5 women but he was nicknamed Popeye for his huge forearms. Henin even after all her weight training looked much smaller than even say Martina Hingis despite being the same height. Look at pictures of Fry and you will see she is bigger, stronger, and more athletic looking than Justine Henin easily (note I am not saying Fry is greater than Henin, both played in the eras they did and Henin achieved more and was more dominant, just as the reverse is true of Fry and Sharapova, the rest is random speculation, although it is worth noting even Henin didnt achieve 3 slams in a row like the great Fry did, nor excel in doubles and mixed doubles as well like the great Fry).

Also Fry was a serve and volleyer, which is how you had to play back then if you couldnt generate enough pace with wood racquets to put the ball away even at the end of an impeccably constructed point. Tennis was more about touch, placements, ball and court movement, and smarts, guts, and guile back then than today, but you still had to end points and create enough velocity of many shots off a wooden racquet to do. Henin is not a serve and volleyer, she might be deemed an all courter, but she is predominantly a baseliner, so a baseliner as small as her trying to end points with a wood racquet, good luck. The way she hits the ball, she practically throws herself into each shot and contorts her body to extremes to get the full use out of todays modernized racquets, and compensate for her extreme lack of physical strength, which is how she is able to hit the ball so shockingly hard for someone so small, but also why her body broke down so early and she had to retire at 25. More than anyone today she needs the modern racquets for the way she plays. You couldnt even throw yourself into shots the way Henin does, especialy on the forehand side, with those racquets, and keep the ball in play.

bobito
Nov 21st, 2012, 07:20 PM
I doubt that. Henin at 5"5, and built like a smurf, wouldnt be able to produce hardly any power with a less modern racquet.

Maureen Connolly, Chris Evert, Billie Jean King and Evonne Goolagong were all around the same size as Henin and they won 45 grand slam singles titles between them.

A player's size and strength were far less important before the development of composite racquets. Skill, precision and variety were what counted due to the sweet spot on such racquets being so much smaller than a modern one.

Henin is not a serve and volleyer, she might be deemed an all courter, but she is predominantly a baseliner, so a baseliner as small as her trying to end points with a wood racquet, good luck.

You do realise that baseline tennis was pioneered by Maureen Connolly, a 5'4", slightly built kid with a wooden racquet, right?

It's also complete nonsense to assume that a player would play the same way with a wooden racquet as they do with a composite one. Henin serve-vollied quite a bit on grass, which is more than 95% of the players of her era did, and was looking to get to the net as often as possible on all surfaces. It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to picture her as a serve-volleyer had she played in that era.

Fighterpova
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:25 PM
You can't train someone to be this ignorant. Marthatards are a stain in the tennis world.

Jeez, calm the eff down. Live and let live, everyone can have their opinion. Seriously, don't you ever stop and think for a moment if what you're doing is ok? If you disagree with someone's opinion, just let it go. You don't have to be a bitch about it :/

Fighterpova
Nov 21st, 2012, 08:28 PM
Mess of a thread obviously, same old, same old TF :rolleyes:

Drake1980
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:02 PM
:spit: what is this?

Fighterpova
Nov 21st, 2012, 09:38 PM
:spit: what is this?

Peak offseason TF :rolleyes:

homogenius
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:15 PM
Both have a career slam. Both won only 4 slams. Who has the edge with both playing their best. :lol: Of note Fry at her career peak won 3 grand slams in a row. Maria's shortest time frame between slams is 17 months.

I never saw Fry play so it's hard to make a judgement.Could you provide a link to some of(peak)Fry matches ? thks

Kasey
Nov 21st, 2012, 10:18 PM
Guardians starting to get both hysteric and panic attack. That's a feast to my eyes.
LOl, just deal with your fave losing this poll as well.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:08 PM
I could've sworn there was a TF meme a year or two ago about how Maria won most polls she was in. Now she's getting her wig torn asunder by Venus, and dame Fry-Irvin is here to collect the remains :lol: What happened honey?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108873/2322576-take_her_wigg.gif

Harry.
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:37 PM
Sob, I searched on YouTube and I found only a single video of Shirley Fry, that too in 1951. I don't see how anyone can make a sensible comparison here. Plus, comparing different eras is so difficult and pointless in the end. Especially ones as different as this...

Chrissie-fan
Nov 21st, 2012, 11:57 PM
I could've sworn there was a TF meme a year or two ago about how Maria won most polls she was in. Now she's getting her wig torn asunder by Venus, and dame Fry-Irvin is here to collect the remains :lol: What happened honey?

Must be that she's doing better than a year or two ago, and as we all know nothing annoys TF-ers as much as success. If she has a poor 2013 it will do her popularity a power of good. ;)

dsanders06
Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:19 AM
:rolleyes: at all the bitter delusion in here.

The answer is very obvious. Peak Shirley's tennis is second only to Peak Pierce in the history of the sport.

Morning Morgan
Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:24 AM
How did this even go beyond 2 pages? Only TF

viktory
Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:29 AM
Must be that she's doing better than a year or two ago, and as we all know nothing annoys TF-ers as much as success. If she has a poor 2013 it will do her popularity a power of good. ;)

haha. Nailed it. ;)

JamieOwen3
Nov 22nd, 2012, 04:15 AM
Peak Andrea Paredes would slay all so

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af264/JamieOwen3/FUsuckmydick.gif





:oh:

doomsday
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:18 AM
I don't know her.:lol:

Mariah Carey's GiF would be perfect. :rolls:

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:53 PM
this thread. :bigcry: