PDA

View Full Version : Peak Juju vs Peak Maria


bandabou
Nov 19th, 2012, 08:44 PM
A post of Dsanders in the peak Venus vs peak Maria got me thinking about this match-up.

And does two more majors by Maria really put her above Juju?!:eek:

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Justine wins easily on clay no question (watch some deluded Maria stans who will pick her to win even on clay though, lol, you should have had an option to see the names who are voting so we can spot who those clowns are). On other surfaces it depends what you mean peak as. If peaks in terms of both playing their absolute best then it is 50/50 on outdoor hard courts or grass, with Henin winning indoors. If peak means their general peak periods Henin was much more consistent playing her best than Maria, Maria was very consistent for a power hitters but Henin's game is simply lower risk by nature, so Henin wins more often than not even on those surfaces in that case. Either way all things considered I picked Henin on all surfaces, but outside of clay it would be a nice rivalry.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:22 PM
If you are comparing peak for peak, and it would be easier to just make a poll about all the common suspects frequently involved in such polls.

Like - whose peak was the most/ least impressive between Serena, Venus, heng, and Kimberley and Maria.

Anyway, peak Justin wins on all surfaces pretty handily, but except maybe slow hc

Sent from my Galaxy Note II using VerticalSports.Com App

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:24 PM
If you are comparing peak for peak, and it would be easier to just make a poll about all the common suspects frequently involved in such polls.

Like - whose peak was the most/ least impressive between Serena, Venus, heng, and Kimberley and Maria.

Sent from my Galaxy Note II using VerticalSports.Com App

Most and least would be easy of those ladies. Most Serena, least Clijsters. To give Clijsters some competition for least impressive peak amongst recent many time slam winners bring in some others like Davenport and Hingis (I wouldnt agree with Hingis but I know she has some detractors).

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:29 PM
Most and least would be easy of those ladies. Most Serena, least Clijsters. To give Clijsters some competition for least impressive peak amongst recent many time slam winners bring in some others like Davenport and Hingis (I wouldnt agree with Hingis but I know she has some detractors).

Serena, Venus and henin clearly had more impressive peaks than Maria and Kim. Peak Kim does do a lot of things better than peak Maria so the bottom place isn't as easy to determine imo. Both the ladies have glaring weaknesses in their game even when they are/were at their peak.

Sent from my Galaxy Note II using VerticalSports.Com App

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Serena, Venus and henin clearly had more impressive peaks than Maria and Kim. Peak Kim does do a lot of things better than peak Maria so the bottom place isn't as easy to determine imo.

Sent from my Galaxy Note II using VerticalSports.Com App

You could be right but I think peak Maria would overpower Kim in the long run. I cant see Kim beating Maria in her 2006 U.S Open, 2007 WTA Championships, 2008 Australian Open, or 2012 French Open form.

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:38 PM
LOL already a vote from someone who thinks peak Maria would win even on clay. I look forward to the comedic value of this thread.

Lord Choc Ice
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:43 PM
Maria on grass, Juju others.

VeeJJ
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:46 PM
I did this already bitches.

dsanders06
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:53 PM
Yawn. These discussions dominated last year's offseason:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=449476

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=448268

dsanders06
Nov 19th, 2012, 09:58 PM
Anyway, this is one match-up that DOESN'T favour Maria. Unlike Peak Venus, Peak Justine actually does have superb defensive abilities that would bring back all of Maria's best shots back into play and disrupt her rhythm. And, while Peak Maria's offensive game is streets ahead of Peak Justine's, Peaktine is certainly capable of playing good enough offense to take advantage the second Maria gives her an opening, which you have to do against Peak Maria if you're employing a primarily counterpunching strategy.

Don't agree with any of the poll options; imo, the only surface Peak Maria beats Peaktine on is slow hardcourts. Even though Maria is more accomplished than Justine on grass, I feel the dynamics of the match-up favour Justine on that surface -- just her slice and netplay is enough to expose how vulnerable Maria is to low-bouncing balls on grass (see the Wimbledon '06 match against Mauresmo).

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:16 PM
One thing I have always been mystified by is some idea Maria is clearly better than Justine on grass. Just because she won Wimbledon and Justine didnt? I dont consider Maria any better than Justine on grass atleast as far as ability, probably greater since a Wimbledon title is a Wimbledon title, but not any better. I consider Hingis no better than Henin on grass, and Conchita Martinez much worse than Henin on grass, and they won Wimbledon too. The only edge Maria has over Justine on grass is winning Wimbledon, Justine has more strong performances at Wimbledon otherwise, and many more grass titles including multiple titles at Eastborne. If Justine had won the 06 Wimbledon final, or had Maria lost the 04 Wimbledon semi to Davenport, nobody would think Maria is better on grass. I think in terms of ability Justine is atleast on par with Maria on grass, both are far behind Venus, Serena, Davenport, and also behind Mauresmo, and above anyone else of their era (unless you count Kvitova as part of Maria's era, she isnt part of Justine's really). That Maria won Wimbledon and Justine didnt is mostly a product of the fact Maria happened to play her best tennis in a Wimbledon final (2004) while Justine happened to not do so, especialy the one she really had a chance to win in 2006.

Vincey!
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:25 PM
Juju would win easily on clay, grass would go to Sharapova. On hard court I give the edge to Sharapova too, because Justine was pretty much playing at her best at the USO 06 and Maria beat her in straight sets playing unbelievably well.

forehand27
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:28 PM
Justine was pretty much playing at her best at the USO 06

:lol:

PetraReeMona
Nov 19th, 2012, 10:53 PM
Juju would win easily on clay, grass would go to Sharapova. On hard court I give the edge to Sharapova too, because Justine was pretty much playing at her best at the USO 06 and Maria beat her in straight sets playing unbelievably well.

BIB :happy:

Yeh right - even with a back injury :help:

If it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that :tape:

I'm surprised you didn't say Justine was at her peak at AO 08 :hysteric:

My god, what is it with these Maria fans, why oh why are they so delusional? :help: :awww: What is it :confused:

Nicolás89
Nov 19th, 2012, 11:40 PM
YEC 2006. Close the thread.

hablo
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:14 AM
I hate to say this. But there is no contest here. Peak Juju takes out Peak Sharpie. It kills me to say this. :o

Too much skills and better tactics from :bigwave:

Brad[le]y.
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Juju would win easily on clay, grass would go to Sharapova. On hard court I give the edge to Sharapova too, because Justine was pretty much playing at her best at the USO 06 and Maria beat her in straight sets playing unbelievably well.

This is very debatable :lol:

This match theoretically happened at the 2007 YEC final, with Justine scrapping by in three. Anyways, Martha would win on grass but I think Juju takes everywhere else.

hablo
Nov 20th, 2012, 12:16 AM
Juju would win easily on clay, grass would go to Sharapova. On hard court I give the edge to Sharapova too, because Justine was pretty much playing at her best at the USO 06 and Maria beat her in straight sets playing unbelievably well.

Why would grass go to Sharpie? Juju can volley and slice and force Sharpie to volley. :tape:

And I don't think Juju was playing her best at that USO 06. Anyway, I will let the :bigwave: fans defend her. Ugh.

Vincey!
Nov 20th, 2012, 02:30 AM
y.;22498866']This is very debatable :lol:

This match theoretically happened at the 2007 YEC final, with Justine scrapping by in three. Anyways, Martha would win on grass but I think Juju takes everywhere else.
Sharapova wasn't at her best in YEC 07, she was just coming back from a terrible fall due to her shoulder injury. She was getting back there but she wasn't nearly as good as she was at the AO 2008 where she crushed Justine! Even tho Justine didn't play bad, I feel that her game was there but her heart wasn't therefore I wouldn't consider that match Justine's peak. Where Justine played really well throughout the USO 06. :shrug: one bad match to Jankovic and that's all.

Why would grass go to Sharpie? Juju can volley and slice and force Sharpie to volley. :tape:


We're talking about Peak Sharapova on Grass here, she doesn't bring that game all the time. Teenager Peak Sharapova beat the like of Serena and Davenport so clearly her game would take out justine on grass fairly easily at her peak. Henin had everything against her even more on grass. She had a 1 handed backhand which is hard to time on grass due to the bad bounces and the quickness of the court, she was short making it tough to stretch to reach balls and Maria was much more powerful than Justine on serve and on her groundies. The only advantage Justine had was at the net as you said, but she needed to be able to get there, which I don't think is that easy against a Sharapova who hits hard and deep on every balls and going for the lines. Anyway Justine wasn't going at the net that often.

We may disagree about that HC peak, it is really debatable depending which matches you consider them at their peak, but when we're talking about Grass, Sharapova has a clear advantage in my opinion. Not only due to her past success comparing to Henin but also due to the base of their game.

n1_and_uh_noone
Nov 20th, 2012, 02:48 AM
YEC 2006. Close the thread.

Pretty much :lol:. WE had die-hard Sugartards post video after video of Sugar at YEC 2006, declaring it her absolute peak, because her shoulder gave out a month later.

(Unless it happened in the semifinal when she played not-quite-peakTine :tape: ? Sugartards, anyone?)

Leo St
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:35 AM
justine henin is a much better grass courter than maria sharapova.

Charlatan
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:44 AM
Why would grass go to Sharpie? Juju can volley and slice and force Sharpie to volley. :tape:

And I don't think Juju was playing her best at that USO 06. Anyway, I will let the :bigwave: fans defend her. Ugh.

USO 06 instantly reminds me of bagelie :hearts: That double bagel in the SF :drool:

Brad[le]y.
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:46 AM
USO 06 instantly reminds me of bagelie :hearts: That double bagel in the SF :drool:

Poor Amelie :awww:

She also got bageled in the 4th round against Serena :hysteric:

forehand27
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:47 AM
Sharapova wasn't at her best in YEC 07, she was just coming back from a terrible fall due to her shoulder injury. She was getting back there but she wasn't nearly as good as she was at the AO 2008 where she crushed Justine! Even tho Justine didn't play bad, I feel that her game was there but her heart wasn't therefore I wouldn't consider that match Justine's peak. Where Justine played really well throughout the USO 06. :shrug: one bad match to Jankovic and that's all.


Maria at the 2007 YEC absolutely crushed everyone until the final vs Justine, mauled many of them. One 3 setter with Kuznetsova, but she won handily in the 2 victorious sets and doubled Kuznetsova in winners that day. A field with only top players. She wouldnt be capable of this with anything less than "peak" form, especialy as she is very rarely able to do something like that for a whole tournament. Yeah fine to say the 2008 Australian Open was even better, but beyond any doubt the 2007 YEC is probably one of the 5 best tournaments of Maria's career (while it was also a good tournament for Henin it probably wouldnt even be one of the top 15 tournaments of hers). No doubt this is the closest thing we ever saw of peak Maria vs peak Justine, that or the 2006 YEC, if not absolutely there, closer to it than anything else.

As for the 2006 U.S Open that is by far the worst of the 5 major events Henin played that year. The fact she would have lost 6-4, 6-2 to Jelena freaking Jankovic who is her pigeon, and who she has never lost to, in the semis, tells you all you need to know. It is true she looked pretty good until her quarterfinal with Davenport but she seemed to incur an injury of some kind in that match, and her serve went to crap and was Dementieva like her last 2 and half matches, and with a serve that bad you cant win vs someone like an in form Maria. Henin actually played much better in her 2008 Australian Open defeat to Maria than the 2006 U.S Open one, and Maria in fact managed to win that one even more easily (probably the match of Maria's career tbh) so if you want to pump up Maria you are best to speak about their Australian Open match as the best showcase of Maria's abilities vs a somewhat good Henin. The idea Henin was playing great in the 06 US Open final or in general at that event is simply ludricious. She was even playing better tennis at the 2001, 2002, maybe 2004, and maybe even 2000 events where she went out in the round of 16 each time than in 2006 where she finaled with an easy draw consisting of a bunch of clowns, granny now non contender Davenport who is an easy matchup and prime Henin's pigeon anwyay, and another pigeon and headcase and new to being a contender Jankovic.

Charlatan
Nov 20th, 2012, 03:52 AM
y.;22499257']Poor Amelie :awww:

She also got bageled in the 4th round against Serena :hysteric:

Hence the name Bagelie :oh:

bandabou
Nov 20th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Anyway, this is one match-up that DOESN'T favour Maria. Unlike Peak Venus, Peak Justine actually does have superb defensive abilities that would bring back all of Maria's best shots back into play and disrupt her rhythm. And, while Peak Maria's offensive game is streets ahead of Peak Justine's, Peaktine is certainly capable of playing good enough offense to take advantage the second Maria gives her an opening, which you have to do against Peak Maria if you're employing a primarily counterpunching strategy.

Don't agree with any of the poll options; imo, the only surface Peak Maria beats Peaktine on is slow hardcourts. Even though Maria is more accomplished than Justine on grass, I feel the dynamics of the match-up favour Justine on that surface -- just her slice and netplay is enough to expose how vulnerable Maria is to low-bouncing balls on grass (see the Wimbledon '06 match against Mauresmo).

:lol: Douchesanders totally exposed as a joke. :lol:
So peak Venus barely gets any wins against Masha, but peak Juju beats Masha on EVERY surface?! :rolls:

dsanders06
Nov 20th, 2012, 06:58 AM
:lol: Douchesanders totally exposed as a joke. :lol:
So peak Venus barely gets any wins against Masha, but peak Juju beats Masha on EVERY surface?! :rolls:

Two strawmen, again :lol:
Please learn to READ.

doomsday
Nov 20th, 2012, 07:05 AM
Pretty much :lol:. WE had die-hard Sugartards post video after video of Sugar at YEC 2006, declaring it her absolute peak, because her shoulder gave out a month later.

(Unless it happened in the semifinal when she played not-quite-peakTine :tape: ? Sugartards, anyone?)

Yeah it was me but she gave Henin a tougher match in YEC 2007 and Henin was playing a lot better in YEC 2007 than 06 and even the whole year.
You must be in denial if you think otherwise.

My vote goes to Henin but she would win in three sets.

It's unbelievable the number of threads Bandabou opened concerning Peak Maria btw :lol: leave our fave ALONE :lol:

Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Vincey!
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:27 AM
Maria at the 2007 YEC absolutely crushed everyone until the final vs Justine, mauled many of them. One 3 setter with Kuznetsova, but she won handily in the 2 victorious sets and doubled Kuznetsova in winners that day. A field with only top players. She wouldnt be capable of this with anything less than "peak" form, especialy as she is very rarely able to do something like that for a whole tournament. Yeah fine to say the 2008 Australian Open was even better, but beyond any doubt the 2007 YEC is probably one of the 5 best tournaments of Maria's career (while it was also a good tournament for Henin it probably wouldnt even be one of the top 15 tournaments of hers). No doubt this is the closest thing we ever saw of peak Maria vs peak Justine, that or the 2006 YEC, if not absolutely there, closer to it than anything else.

As for the 2006 U.S Open that is by far the worst of the 5 major events Henin played that year. The fact she would have lost 6-4, 6-2 to Jelena freaking Jankovic who is her pigeon, and who she has never lost to, in the semis, tells you all you need to know. It is true she looked pretty good until her quarterfinal with Davenport but she seemed to incur an injury of some kind in that match, and her serve went to crap and was Dementieva like her last 2 and half matches, and with a serve that bad you cant win vs someone like an in form Maria. Henin actually played much better in her 2008 Australian Open defeat to Maria than the 2006 U.S Open one, and Maria in fact managed to win that one even more easily (probably the match of Maria's career tbh) so if you want to pump up Maria you are best to speak about their Australian Open match as the best showcase of Maria's abilities vs a somewhat good Henin. The idea Henin was playing great in the 06 US Open final or in general at that event is simply ludricious. She was even playing better tennis at the 2001, 2002, maybe 2004, and maybe even 2000 events where she went out in the round of 16 each time than in 2006 where she finaled with an easy draw consisting of a bunch of clowns, granny now non contender Davenport who is an easy matchup and prime Henin's pigeon anwyay, and another pigeon and headcase and new to being a contender Jankovic.
Well thanks for pointing out that Maria was therefore better than Henin on HC at their peak. ;)
If you consider Henin's best form in early 2000 than I'm sorry but you haven't watch the same player. She was much more powerful on her serve and on ehr groundies from 2004 and on untill 2008 which helped her dominating the tour for a while. Somethign she wouldn't have done before and not because the player she was facing were "tougher" according to you.

Stonerpova
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:37 AM
Peak Sharapova on fast surfaces, Peak Henin on slow ones.

Vincey!
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:37 AM
Why would grass go to Sharpie? Juju can volley and slice and force Sharpie to volley. :tape:

And I don't think Juju was playing her best at that USO 06. Anyway, I will let the :bigwave: fans defend her. Ugh.

you talked about Sharapie's match against Momo in your rep (sorry can't send rep to you for now apparently lol) if you're talking about that big 3 setters at Wimbledon in 06 (as we are speaking of Grass) I don't really understand how that would make the result of Sharapova vs Justine's any different match different. Mauresmo's game was much more different than Henin, Mauresmo beat Justine that same year in the final with a pretty similar score, so if we'd compare them with that match, that'd only make them even at worse.

If you're implying Mauresmo and Justine had a similar game I beg to differ, exept for their 1 handed backhand I consider Mauresmo and Henin's game really different. Mauresmo was looking to go to the net much more often than Justine, she was sliding her backhand more often too, her serve seemed more effective on grass for some reason as well. Those are all things that helped her being a better player than Justine on Grass and would make a difference in a match against Sharapova. Of course Justine could slice the bh and come to the net, but that was not her natural gamestyle, than we can hardly speculate that it would work well against Sharapova or if she could even do it as she never really did. We're talking about real peak here and not potential peak if they would use this or that shot or style.

Manitou
Nov 21st, 2012, 03:45 AM
Juju beats the crap out of Maria!


..