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View Full Version : Serena holding real slam record if she reaches 20 slams


forehand27
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:25 PM
I would argue if Serena reaches 20 slams she holds the real and true slam record. It is well known the marks of Court (Australian Open illegitimate slam back then) and Graf (Seles stabbing) are asterixed and not fully legit marks. Graf has 22 slams but had the Seles stabbing never happened she would have at most 19. Court has 24 slams, but 11 are Australian Opens which on average 2 of the top 10 played per year then. She won only between 3-5 at the 3 real slams, so one can assume her final slam total would be 16-18 with something from 3-5 Australian Opens if it were a real slam like the other 3. So considering the asterixes what we really have is a bunch of women tied at 18 or 19 slams for the record- Wills (19), Graf (19 at most), Court (18 at most), Navratilova (18), Evert (18). Serena reaching 20 would eclipse those 5 women who all hold 18 or 19 slams and set the new true mark.

Jimmie48
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:26 PM
It is well known the marks of Court (Australian Open illegitimate slam back then) and Graf (Seles stabbing) are asterixed and not fully legit marks.

No.

KeysisGOAT
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:34 PM
Stop trollbaiting.

sweetadri06
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:35 PM
stop the foolishness. 22>20

edificio
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:36 PM
:help:

NashaMasha
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:38 PM
it will be like Serena Slam , everyone will think it's legitimate Grand Slam , but still in history books will be written "non calendar" and Graf will be mentioned above....

So i think Serena reaching 20 Slams will be considered GOAT by current generation but 20 years later Graf and Court will be again ahead

forehand27
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:39 PM
stop the foolishness. 22>20

24>22 too yet Court's record is dismissed by virtually all (rightfully IMO) due to the Australian Open status of the pre 1980s. However if that mark is asterixed and diminished, why is the same not done for Graf's mark which was boosted by the Seles stabbing. It is hypocritical to diminish one and not the other. Both are diminished or should be.

AcesHigh
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:40 PM
I was waiting for a confirmation. But yes, looks like you are some kind of troll.

Excelscior
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Now this new idiot, is just contradicting him/her self, trolling and stargazing/glory hunting.

He/she just posted in another (even more ridiculous--related) thread, that 'Graf didn't benefit from the Seles stabbing'.

Please ignore, move on. :rolleyes: :help: :rolleyes:

forehand27
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:43 PM
So reminding of what many already say, including many experts and past greats of the game, that both the Court and Graf slam marks carry a huge and heavy asterix which will never be forgotten is trolling? Either way we will see if Serena reaches 20 slams (and I think she will). She will be touted as holding the true and most impressive unblemished slam mark if she does. Had the Australian Open been a real slam and had Seles not been stabbed, neither Court or Graf would have 20 slams, and everyone knows it.

TheLegendof
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:43 PM
Please shut up :facepalm:

forehand27
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Now this new idiot, is just contradicting himself, trolling and stargazing/glory hunting.

He/she just posted in another (even more ridulous--related) thread, that 'Graf didn't benefit from the Seles stabbing'.

Please ignore. :rolleyes: :help: :rolleyes:

I said she didnt benefit that much. I didnt say she didnt benefit, just not a huge amount. I think Graf would probably have 7 Wimbledons, 4 French Opens, 4 Australian Opens, and 4 U.S Opens and still be considered the GOAT (atleast before Serena) today by most people with that kind of record. That is how I think she didnt benefit a huge amount. However her final slam total is definitely boosted.

Sweety Darling
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:46 PM
OP is probably some 12 year old, who thinks tennis only started when Kournikova got her muff out for Playboy.

Excelscior
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:48 PM
Idiot, I said she didnt benefit that much. I didnt say she didnt benefit, just not a huge amount. Learn to comprehend first grade reading, if you even went past first grade. I think Graf would probably have 7 Wimbledons, 4 French Opens, 4 Australian Opens, and 4 U.S Opens and still be considered the GOAT (atleast before Serena) today by most people with that kind of record. That is how I think she didnt benefit a huge amount. However her final slam total is definitely boosted.

:help: :haha::haha: :help:

miffedmax
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:57 PM
There is no asterisk. The record book straight up says Margaret Court won 24 majors, and that Graf won 22, the most in the Open Era.

This discussion about the quality of Court's titles and the Seles stabbing come up in the discussion of mythical GOAT status, which is not the same thing as holding the record for slam titles.

Ordinarily, I'd close this thread, but it's the offseason and I expect it will die on it's own.

Morning Morgan
Nov 9th, 2012, 05:58 PM
Mods just close this thread. And ban this troll while you're at it.

Helen Lawson
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:27 PM
If you want to write down Court for the Australian sucking (supposedly) in the 60s, then you need to write-up Navratilova and Evert who won a slew of titles in their time that during their time were far more competitive and prestigious than the Australian, and even the French. And they won a ton of them. And there were many of them. So Serena's 20< 28 from Navratilova and Evert.

Sammo
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Dude WTF :facepalm:

b2b
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:35 PM
if she reaches 20,i'd say then she has a pretty good chance of breaking 22.

3 years to come,so calm down, bitches

Sweety Darling
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Serena has player tennis in the weakest era (from '03 to now), so Graf's slams will always be worth more even if Serena makes 23

Vincey!
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:45 PM
you might be right about court cuz she was not playing in the open era so she's definitely a legend but her stats cannot really be compared to the stats of the players from the open era. Graf on the other hands played in the open era and all her slams are legit. Serena won slams when big players were not playing as well :shrug: so if you're counting some of Graf's slams out because Seles weren't playing, you should count some of Serena's out too when Clijsters or Henin and others big names and threat at that time were injured :shrug:

Sisyphus
Nov 9th, 2012, 07:45 PM
You're an idiot.

Also,

Asterix:
http://www.cartonionline.com/GIF/CARTOON/ASTERIX/ASTERIX.GIF

Asterisk:
http://stephentall.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/asterisk-290x300.jpg

laj
Nov 9th, 2012, 11:27 PM
There is no asterisk. The record book straight up says Margaret Court won 24 majors, and that Graf won 22, the most in the Open Era.

This discussion about the quality of Court's titles and the Seles stabbing come up in the discussion of mythical GOAT status, which is not the same thing as holding the record for slam titles.

Ordinarily, I'd close this thread, but it's the offseason and I expect it will die on it's own.

Court won only 11 GS Singles titles in the Open Era.

Olórin
Nov 9th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Court won only 11 GS Singles titles in the Open Era.

Yes, but that is an immaterial fact because in any event the Open Era distinction is not relevant to women's tennis, which was never "closed" because it only became a professional sport well after the Open Era of tennis began.

misty1
Nov 10th, 2012, 12:57 AM
lol, no

you dont get to deiscredit someone's achievments just because so and so wasnt playing

court and graf's records stand

miffedmax
Nov 10th, 2012, 01:21 AM
Court won only 11 GS Singles titles in the Open Era.

That's why I said "Graf won 22, the most in the Open Era."

donellcarey
Nov 10th, 2012, 01:25 AM
I voted yes:scared:

forehand27
Nov 10th, 2012, 04:40 AM
If you want to write down Court for the Australian sucking (supposedly) in the 60s, then you need to write-up Navratilova and Evert who won a slew of titles in their time that during their time were far more competitive and prestigious than the Australian, and even the French. And they won a ton of them. And there were many of them. So Serena's 20< 28 from Navratilova and Evert.

I actually agree on Evert. Evert should have won about 25 majors and hold the record hands down had she played the Australian and French all those years. Navratilova skipped both only in years way before her prime when she was almost slamless, and when she had little chance to win either in a full field anyway (no chance at the French), and then when peaked dominated a weak field in the mid 80s and played all 4 slams just like everyone else was doing by then.

forehand27
Nov 10th, 2012, 04:44 AM
you might be right about court cuz she was not playing in the open era so she's definitely a legend but her stats cannot really be compared to the stats of the players from the open era. Graf on the other hands played in the open era and all her slams are legit. Serena won slams when big players were not playing as well :shrug: so if you're counting some of Graf's slams out because Seles weren't playing, you should count some of Serena's out too when Clijsters or Henin and others big names and threat at that time were injured :shrug:

Players being injured (natural part of the game), burning out (natural part of the game), or a weak field are not the same thing as your main rival being stabbed. That is unprecedented in the sport. I am actually a Graf fan but lets be real here. I do think she is overall better than Seles and would have reclaimed her place on top even without the stabbing but would she have won 22 slams, no. Nor is it the same thing as a field that generally had 2 of the top 10 of the time playing, the equivalent of a tier 3 event, which is what the Australian really was in Courts era not a slam. It was a joke the Australian Open was given slam status anytime before 1982 or so, since the fields indicated there were about 10 NON slams more important. A weak field is different than the field not even being there.

hingis-seles
Nov 10th, 2012, 07:52 AM
It's irrelevant. Monica wins. Always.

Igorche
Nov 10th, 2012, 07:53 PM
She will not reach 20 slams, so who cares :lol:

Lucemferre
Nov 10th, 2012, 08:20 PM
Isn't this justineheninfan? He's making some valid points but of course the very predictable reactions from the narrow-minded crowd whenever they hear something out of the ordinary make it hard to discuss.

Lucemferre
Nov 10th, 2012, 08:30 PM
lol, no

you dont get to deiscredit someone's achievments just because so and so wasnt playing

court and graf's records stand

So and so was the dominant no.1 at the time of the stabbing. It wasn't an ordinary injury and you should be able to understand why people think Graf has an asterisk next to her records unless you're as deranged a fanatic as the stabber.

lenas warriors
Nov 11th, 2012, 02:48 PM
Cat among the pigeons, but couldnt you put a star against Serenas record with Henin retiring (and even Kimmie). Thats really when Serena phase 2 began?!

Sammo
Nov 11th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Isn't this justineheninfan? He's making some valid points but of course the very predictable reactions from the narrow-minded crowd whenever they hear something out of the ordinary make it hard to discuss.

Valid points :spit:

Geisha
Nov 11th, 2012, 06:18 PM
Cat among the pigeons, but couldnt you put a star against Serenas record with Henin retiring (and even Kimmie). Thats really when Serena phase 2 began?!

They retired because they didn't want to play and/or wanted to have kids. Not Serena's fault.

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 07:47 PM
No.

YES

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Serena has player tennis in the weakest era (from '03 to now), so Graf's slams will always be worth more even if Serena makes 23

What ya smokin? :haha:

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 07:53 PM
lol, no

you dont get to deiscredit someone's achievments just because so and so wasnt playing

court and graf's records stand

Wrong, you do discredit someone's achievements when so and so was stabbed for the sole reason to advance that "someone"(Graf).

You can say that over and over to you turn blue in the fact remains, Seles was stabbed so Graf would have a clear shot at the #1 position and more slams.

Funny how Graf-Tards can't accept the truth!!

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Cat among the pigeons, but couldnt you put a star against Serenas record with Henin retiring (and even Kimmie). Thats really when Serena phase 2 began?!

Nobody STABBED Henin so Serena could advance. Big difference!!

Justin SW
Nov 11th, 2012, 07:56 PM
She will not reach 20 slams, so who cares :lol:

yes she will

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 08:14 PM
She will not reach 20 slams, so who cares :lol:

You get props for posting honest stuff and not bullchit like the others!! :worship:

And I am a Serena fan too.

cehowardrx7
Nov 11th, 2012, 08:17 PM
Mods just close this thread. And ban this troll while you're at it.

I agree, close this BS thread, now!!
They close my threads in a New York Second!! :(

Kworb
Nov 11th, 2012, 08:36 PM
Agreed. 20 should do it.

Ajrob
Nov 11th, 2012, 11:09 PM
I guess Seles' stabbing had the same impact in Graf's career than Henin's retirament ranked #1 had in Serena's.

forehand27
Nov 11th, 2012, 11:25 PM
I guess Seles' stabbing had the same impact in Graf's career than Henin's retirament ranked #1 had in Serena's.

if Serena had won 2 or 3 French Opens since Henin's first retirement you would have a valid point, but she didnt even reach a semifinal there inspite of Henins retirement. So Henins retirement is meaningless. It would be like saying Graf still benefited from the Seles stabbing if all she won after 93 were Wimbledons.

LightWarrior
Nov 11th, 2012, 11:36 PM
if Serena had won 2 or 3 French Opens since Henin's first retirement you would have a valid point, but she didnt even reach a semifinal there inspite of Henins retirement. So Henins retirement is meaningless. It would be like saying Graf still benefited from the Seles stabbing if all she won after 93 were Wimbledons.

Good point. As much as I loved Seles it's very questionable whether she would have won Wimbledon even once had she not been stabbed.

AcesHigh
Nov 11th, 2012, 11:39 PM
I'm so tired of this damn argument. The case can be made against ANY of the GOATs.

Even Serena who was lucky enough to have all her rivals retire, fall off, disappear, never reach their peak again, etc. by 2008.
She also has the benefit of playing in the weakest period of women's tennis in the Open Era.

So 20 is 20 and 22 is 22. If you want an asterisk on Graf's career, there is one for Serena as well.

forehand27
Nov 11th, 2012, 11:45 PM
I'm so tired of this damn argument. The case can be made against ANY of the GOATs.

Even Serena who was lucky enough to have all her rivals retire, fall off, disappear, never reach their peak again, etc. by 2008.
She also has the benefit of playing in the weakest period of women's tennis in the Open Era.

So 20 is 20 and 22 is 22. If you want an asterisk on Graf's career, there is one for Serena as well.

Things like injuries, subjective arguments about quality of the field, lucky draws, are absolutely nothing like the stabbing. The stabbing was a criminal act, unprecedented in the tennis World, and it casts a definite asterix on Graf's achievements. Try finding an example of an expert who spoke about Graf's career and her 22 slams without mentioning the stabbing in some vacinity. It cant be done. Court's inflated Australian Open tally at the time it was an illegitimate non slam which was really about the 25th biggest tournament on tour is also not the same. There is a big difference between a weak field, and the field not even being there. A field were 2 of the present top 10 play on average play is not a real Slam.

The arguments around Serena being lucky since so and so werent there are also invalid since apart from Henin on clay, and only on clay (where as mentioned Serena won shit all for a long time anyway), nobody has the edge on Serena.

Lastly as for the field Serena won 6 of her majors in arguably the strongest womens field in history from 99-2003. Steffi Graf and Margaret Court NEVER faced a field like that. In fact when did Graf ever face a strong field while on top. She faced 30 something Navratilova and Evert from 87-89, then Sanchez Vicario as her big rival after the Seles stabbing from 93-96. The weakest womens field in history has been since around mid 2009 where Serena won only 5 of her slams, less than she won in the strongest womens field in history.

AcesHigh
Nov 12th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Things like injuries, subjective arguments ....

Strongest field? Hilarious bullshit. 2002 who were the big rivals for those 3 slams? Venus Williams who it can be argued had difficulty playing against Serena until 2003 AO. You can't lump in the very strong years of 1999-2001 with 2002-2003 when Davenport was coming back from injury, Capriati was fading, Hingis was gone, etc. etc. etc.

And your argument is subjective. There is only the fact that Graf has the most singles slams in the Open Era. Anything else is pure speculation. But obviously have an agenda which is why no one is taking you seriously here. Seles could have fallen off a balcony and broken her legs for all we know. The only objective fact is that we know only one outcome. Graf has the most singles slams in the Open Era

forehand27
Nov 12th, 2012, 12:20 AM
Serena faced Venus at her peak, Henin and Clijsters coming into their prime, Capriati still near her best, and Mauresmo and Davenport as major contenders when she totally dominated in 2002-2003. To suggest that isnt alot of competition is laughable.

PetraReeMona
Nov 12th, 2012, 12:56 AM
Isn't this justineheninfan? .

I was thinking that too - very familiar posts :lol:

cellophane
Nov 12th, 2012, 01:08 AM
It is totally justineheninfan :lol:

Vartan
Nov 12th, 2012, 01:39 AM
Asterix :hysteric:

jj74
Nov 12th, 2012, 11:34 AM
The same thread again and again and again.

When and if Serena reach 20 GS, then we will talk about this, but right now she is very far from this, and given her age she could go downhill at anytime.
People have very little memory, after losing RG, she was near to lose at early rounds of Wimbledon at least a couple of times. She is a great champion, very competitive and tough mentally. She won GS being totally out of shape (Australia 2007), and she is the best player of this era, but her number don't macht Graf number for a lot, so till the number get a little closer, this discussion is pointless

Morning Morgan
Nov 12th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Miffedmax predicted that this thread will die because it's off season. It will NOT die because precisely it's the off season. Max what are you thinking?!

gbenga
Nov 12th, 2012, 04:28 PM
The same thread again and again and again.

When and if Serena reach 20 GS, then we will talk about this, but right now she is very far from this, and given her age she could go downhill at anytime.
People have very little memory, after losing RG, she was near to lose at early rounds of Wimbledon at least a couple of times. She is a great champion, very competitive and tough mentally. She won GS being totally out of shape (Australia 2007), and she is the best player of this era, but her number don't macht Graf number for a lot, so till the number get a little closer, this discussion is pointless

We hope when that time come you won't move the goal post again.

miffedmax
Nov 12th, 2012, 04:48 PM
Miffedmax predicted that this thread will die because it's off season. It will NOT die because precisely it's the off season. Max what are you thinking?!

Obviously, I wasn't thinking at all. :sobbing:

Volcana
Nov 12th, 2012, 05:29 PM
I don't believe in defaming the accomplishments of past champions to make the case for current one.

You can make a case Serena is the best of all time now. I wouldn't, but people in the biz, and some of her fellow players, are already doing that.

However, if you want Serena to hold some mythical, 'Most Slam SIngles Titles' record, she's gonna need 25.

(Have to admit, this seems like a backdoor attempt to bring up the Seles vs Graf nonsense again.)

homogenius
Nov 12th, 2012, 05:34 PM
I would argue if Serena reaches 20 slams she holds the real and true slam record. It is well known the marks of Court (Australian Open illegitimate slam back then) and Graf (Seles stabbing) are asterixed and not fully legit marks. Graf has 22 slams but had the Seles stabbing never happened she would have at most 19. Court has 24 slams, but 11 are Australian Opens which on average 2 of the top 10 played per year then. She won only between 3-5 at the 3 real slams, so one can assume her final slam total would be 16-18 with something from 3-5 Australian Opens if it were a real slam like the other 3. So considering the asterixes what we really have is a bunch of women tied at 18 or 19 slams for the record- Wills (19), Graf (19 at most), Court (18 at most), Navratilova (18), Evert (18). Serena reaching 20 would eclipse those 5 women who all hold 18 or 19 slams and set the new true mark.

No cause had the stabbing never happened, Seles would have more than 20 slams.You can close this thread now.

miffedmax
Nov 12th, 2012, 06:36 PM
If she hadn't fallen off a horse, Little Mo would have had 30.

If they awarded bonus sets for adorable bangs, Lena D. would have had somwhere between an assload and a fuckton.

Stonerpova
Nov 12th, 2012, 06:37 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she hold the slam record if she reaches 25? :confused:

Dumb thread.

GAGAlady
Nov 12th, 2012, 06:48 PM
I would argue if Serena reaches 20 slams she holds the real and true slam record. It is well known the marks of Court (Australian Open illegitimate slam back then) and Graf (Seles stabbing) are asterixed and not fully legit marks. Graf has 22 slams but had the Seles stabbing never happened she would have at most 19. Court has 24 slams, but 11 are Australian Opens which on average 2 of the top 10 played per year then. She won only between 3-5 at the 3 real slams, so one can assume her final slam total would be 16-18 with something from 3-5 Australian Opens if it were a real slam like the other 3. So considering the asterixes what we really have is a bunch of women tied at 18 or 19 slams for the record- Wills (19), Graf (19 at most), Court (18 at most), Navratilova (18), Evert (18). Serena reaching 20 would eclipse those 5 women who all hold 18 or 19 slams and set the new true mark.

Who are u to tell all of us what the "real numbers" are?

Margaret court won 24 grand slams. Those slams where slams when she won them. All of them. Regardless of the fact that it was open or closed, slams are still slams regardless of that.

So she is number 1 with 24, ur an idiot, 24 is higher than 22 and it's also higher than 20, or are u that stupid.

Really people , learn how to count.

I hate Margaret courts opinions as much as everyone else but to state she isn't the winningest female to play is wrong. She won more slams than any other females and deserves to be number 1. If Serena wins 25 she will be number 1. Enough said

bobito
Nov 12th, 2012, 06:52 PM
If she hadn't fallen off a horse, Little Mo would have had 30.

At least that many. And Court would have won fewer because Mo would have still been around for the first half of her career and no doubt stopped her in a few of them. But, of course, that's not the way it happened so 24 is the record. You can debate who was the GOAT 'til you're blue in the face (for me it's Connolly) but the slam record belongs to Court and isn't going to broken anytime soon.

pattyclijsters
Nov 12th, 2012, 07:26 PM
They retired because they didn't want to play and/or wanted to have kids. Not Serena's fault.

But it was COurts fault nobody wanted to play AO? And Grafs fault Seles was stabbed? :eek:

jrollaneres25
Nov 13th, 2012, 05:41 AM
I would say that Steffi is still the Greatest, not because Court's wins of the Aussie but surfaces. Back then, 3 of the slams where played on Grass. One on Clay

jj74
Nov 13th, 2012, 07:48 PM
We hope when that time come you won't move the goal post again.

What i say or don't say it's totally irrelevant.
One can argue what one wants but the 24 GS of Court (as much as i dislike her) were totally real, the same with Graf 22 and Wills Moody 19.
There are a number of factor that affect the achievents of the players. As some people say if little Mo didn't have the horse accident she probably would get a lot more GS.

One can say that Serena's merit is greater because she achieve her goals in a more competitive era (wich is debatable), and even have the opinion that she is the best of all time, but at least she reach 25, the record of GS will be Court's.

And even if the record was 20, she is very far from that today, so the assumption of the thread would be premature. In a year could be a totally different story, but right now she has a long run to reach that number

TennisPhan
Nov 13th, 2012, 08:28 PM
the way things is goin, 20 slams looks very possible for Serena. She wants to play 4 more years at least right. If she wins 2 slams per year = 8 + 15 = 23 and she becomes the new #1 GOAT. forget that margaret closed era bs

lloyders76
Nov 13th, 2012, 08:43 PM
the way things is goin, 20 slams looks very possible for Serena. She wants to play 4 more years at least right. If she wins 2 slams per year = 8 + 15 = 23 and she becomes the new #1 GOAT. forget that margaret closed era bs

but serena has never been that productive over any four year period of her career, i don't think it will start in her 30's

TennisPhan
Nov 13th, 2012, 10:11 PM
but serena has never been that productive over any four year period of her career, i don't think it will start in her 30's

yeah and why? everytime she starts getting back, something ***** her over. Let's hope she stays injury free and none of her other sisters get killed until she retires.

lloyders76
Nov 13th, 2012, 11:35 PM
yeah and why? everytime she starts getting back, something ***** her over. Let's hope she stays injury free and none of her other sisters get killed until she retires.

um, that was kind of my point, things happen, namely injuries - that's why it's unlikely, looking at her history over a 14 year career, that she will now be injury free while in her 30's and embark on the most productive 4 years of her career

moonballnurse
Nov 14th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Serena is a big mug, getting slams beating bigger mugs like Zvonareva and Safina (:happy:) in slam finals. She also needs to rely on chokes from her big sister and from Azarenka, who freezes every time she is close to beating her idol. She should have 3 slams instead of 15 now.

égalité
Nov 14th, 2012, 05:39 AM
So reminding of what many already say, including many experts and past greats of the game, that both the Court and Graf slam marks carry a huge and heavy asterix which will never be forgotten is trolling? Either way we will see if Serena reaches 20 slams (and I think she will). She will be touted as holding the true and most impressive unblemished slam mark if she does. Had the Australian Open been a real slam and had Seles not been stabbed, neither Court or Graf would have 20 slams, and everyone knows it.

It's spelled "asterisk."

Speaking of askerisks, *Graf *was *a *far *superior *player *compared *to *Seles *and *would *have *20 *slams *regardless *k?

Contrary to delusional stan belief, Seles never dominated Graf. Never. This never happened. Can we stop pretending that the stabbing inflated GOAT Graf's slam count beyond like 1 or 2 please?

TheDream
Nov 14th, 2012, 06:22 AM
um, that was kind of my point, things happen, namely injuries - that's why it's unlikely, looking at her history over a 14 year career, that she will now be injury free while in her 30's and embark on the most productive 4 years of her career

Well, her last injury wasn't even tennis related, just a freak accident. From early 2007, for the most part, she's avoided any major injuries surprisingly.

lloyders76
Nov 14th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Well, her last injury wasn't even tennis related, just a freak accident. From early 2007, for the most part, she's avoided any major injuries surprisingly.

but that still doesn't refute my point, over a 14 year career she has never had a period of success to the level of 8 slams in 4 years, you can't contradict that

donniedarkofan
Nov 14th, 2012, 01:35 PM
OP is probably some 12 year old, who thinks tennis only started when Kournikova got her muff out for Playboy.

Youre not better. Kournikova never posed for Playboy. Duh. And she was so talented.