PDA

View Full Version : Favourite ancient river valley civilisation


Sam L
Oct 10th, 2012, 11:53 AM
http://www.iq.poquoson.org/tlm/worldgeography/n01.gif


Which one is your favourite? Mine is Indus for religious and cultural reasons however Nile/Egypt is very interesting for the Saharan migration and also being on the continent where all humans came from.

You have a thousand and one days to vote. :p

Lin Lin
Oct 10th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Huang He River(The Yellow River):awww:

I was born in the upper and now living in the lower region of Huang He river.:awww:

matthias
Oct 10th, 2012, 12:13 PM
i was always facinated by Egypt history, but also in the indian culture
real tough decision
but i go with Egypt

$uricate
Oct 10th, 2012, 12:28 PM
If one more person asks me this today :rolleyes:

hectopascal
Oct 10th, 2012, 02:04 PM
I love playing the Babylonian empire in Civ games, so I'll vote the Tigris/Euphrates rivers. And also, The Hanging Gardens is my favourite wonder.

Mikey.
Oct 10th, 2012, 02:16 PM
I've ALWAYS been so fascinated by ancient Egyptian society. :eek:

ElusiveChanteuse
Oct 10th, 2012, 02:26 PM
Nile for me.:hearts:

KournikovaFan91
Oct 10th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Literally just did this the other day in my Earth and Humanity class :lol:

miffedmax
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:11 PM
If one more person asks me this today :rolleyes:

I would have picked you as a big fan of Cretin culture.





God, I amuse myself sometimes.

$uricate
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:13 PM
I would have picked you as a big fan of Cretin culture.





God, I amuse myself sometimes.

Really? :lol:

I know :)

My circle is a myriad of learnedness :angel:

Sammo
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:26 PM
I've ALWAYS been so fascinated by ancient Egyptian society. :eek:

Same here.

I can't get over my obsession with them

miffedmax
Oct 10th, 2012, 08:26 PM
Really? :lol:

I know :)

My circle is a myriad of learnedness :angel:

That's because it includes him:

http://iamkoream.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kim-jong-un.jpg



As far as the ancients, SPQR for me.

Sam L
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:12 AM
As far as the ancients, SPQR for me.

It's not really from this time period though so it's not really fair. :p

SPQR's contemporaries were more like Mauryan India and Qin China. Egypt and Mesopotamia (in its original forms) have long declined by then.

King Halep
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:23 AM
Hwang Ho is still a great civilisation, whereas some of the others :oh:

King Halep
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:28 AM
If one more person asks me this today :rolleyes:

No big rivers in the PRK?

miffedmax
Oct 11th, 2012, 03:30 PM
It's not really from this time period though so it's not really fair. :p

SPQR's contemporaries were more like Mauryan India and Qin China. Egypt and Mesopotamia (in its original forms) have long declined by then.

Yes, but it's technically still part of the Ancient World.

But I know, I know, it's not really one of the original cradles. Still, all those years of Latin class.

$uricate
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:10 PM
That's because it includes him:

http://iamkoream.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/kim-jong-un.jpg


Exactly ;)

I am in awe.

No big rivers in the PRK?

Lots. They're just shrouded in secrecy.

We don't want the west to steal them.

Sammo
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:49 PM
Hwang Ho is still a great civilisation, whereas some of the others :oh:

That's not a valid argument :o


Ancient Greeks and Egyptians would be ashamed if they watched in what their civilizations have become :lol:

lee station
Oct 20th, 2012, 02:58 PM
to me it's always been a tie between nile and tigris/euphrates

Sam L
Oct 21st, 2012, 01:50 AM
I love playing the Babylonian empire in Civ games, so I'll vote the Tigris/Euphrates rivers. And also, The Hanging Gardens is my favourite wonder.

I missed this. Are you talking about Civ IV? In which case, Hammurabi? He is a strong leader but I liked the Egyptians, Louis XIV or Catherine or Asoka. I played it too much. LOL. I didn't get Civ V.

fantic
Oct 21st, 2012, 04:09 PM
Hwang Ho is still a great civilisation, whereas some of the others :oh:

Yeah, that's the remarkable thing, isn't it.

No wonder they're full of hubris :oh:

China = 'Center' Nation :cheer:

miffedmax
Oct 22nd, 2012, 03:25 AM
If you really look at all the different empires, cultures and ethnic groups that have ruled China, it's not unlike claiming Italy really is the Roman Empire.

Milito22
Oct 22nd, 2012, 04:23 AM
sumerian cuneiform

http://api.ning.com/files/dm0Wz1lvzuEaps7YoYAA6VBjgGaA-RjtiG4tV5PHkAbeONzJeHLNzoUGg5xHPwaTzo-GFA8Bpth-QxPttloRmnGKm-pOVK-x/alfabetoSumerio500.JPG

fantic
Oct 22nd, 2012, 05:07 AM
If you really look at all the different empires, cultures and ethnic groups that have ruled China, it's not unlike claiming Italy really is the Roman Empire.

Well, Italy WAS the Heart of the Roman Empire, at least before the division. Byzantine is different, of course.

And China is China (Han ethnicity). There weren't THAT many other ethnic groups that ruled mainland China, anyway. Mongol(Won), Manchu(Gum? Right before Mongol. Was it another ethnic group? They ruled only the northern half anyway, before losing to Mongol. Qing), those are the big ones, but that's about it.

Alizé Molik
Oct 22nd, 2012, 11:34 AM
I missed this. Are you talking about Civ IV? In which case, Hammurabi? He is a strong leader but I liked the Egyptians, Louis XIV or Catherine or Asoka. I played it too much. LOL. I didn't get Civ V.

This game= my life in highschool. :lol:

miffedmax
Oct 22nd, 2012, 03:07 PM
Well, Italy WAS the Heart of the Roman Empire, at least before the division. Byzantine is different, of course.

And China is China (Han ethnicity). There weren't THAT many other ethnic groups that ruled mainland China, anyway. Mongol(Won), Manchu(Gum? Right before Mongol. Was it another ethnic group? They ruled only the northern half anyway, before losing to Mongol. Qing), those are the big ones, but that's about it.

Yes, but even within the Han you've had so many dynastic changes, collapses of great empires followed by times of chaos etc. that I'm somewhat skeptical about Chinese claims of "continuity" vs. some other cultures. They had their times of decline, their "Dark Ages", their "Renaissance" (actually a couple of those IIRC) etc.

Not that Chinese history, culture and political achievements aren't amazing. But it isn't quite the unbroken line some people like to claim, and it's borders waxed and waned greatly over time.

(I would have done Chinese history in college but the language scared me off, so I just took the English language history courses.)

Of course, it remains one of the major ancient cultures who's roots remain with us to this day. Of course, for all of those, it's a bit of luck as well. For example, the Nubians, somewhat downstream of the Egyptians, were an incredible ancient civilization that was alternatively a cultural and trade partner/military rival of Egypt for centuries, but it's development was arrested by desertification as the Sahara spread and the Nile itself became less farming friendly in their territory.

Same for the Toltecs and Maya, and I believe some very ancient civilizations in South Africa and Yugoslavia.

fantic
Oct 22nd, 2012, 04:57 PM
I guess we have to wait for a Chinese user to answer :lol:

Nubians once even conquered Egypt and ruled for a time, sorta like Mongol. I have a book about its
history (Folio edition), really should read it quickly and sell it (too bulky :sobbing:).

Was Toltecs and Maya extinguished before the Spanish came? Anyway those South American empires
were decimated by disease brought over by the Europeans(if not South Americans, North Americans
surely did. The effect was devastating)

fantic
Oct 22nd, 2012, 05:00 PM
by the way I totally object to supposing Japan as a separate ancient civilization or culture :rolleyes:
It's just Chinese. Korea and Japan were different from it but doesn't matter. Japan learned from Korea and Korea learned from China, so there's nothing THAT distinct about Japan :rolleyes:
If you want to separate Japan from China one should separate English from European civilization :lol:

lee station
Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:13 PM
by the way I totally object to supposing Japan as a separate ancient civilization or culture :rolleyes:
It's just Chinese. Korea and Japan were different from it but doesn't matter. Japan learned from Korea and Korea learned from China, so there's nothing THAT distinct about Japan :rolleyes:
If you want to separate Japan from China one should separate English from European civilization :lol:there must be something different. just ask a japanese "are you chinese?" and see the reaction. i had this chinese client, and i didn't know he was chinese, and i go to him with a smile and say, are you japanese, and he looked at me w/ this wtf face.

we'll have to ask japanese and chinese posters, i think

lee station
Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:17 PM
If you want to separate Japan from China one should separate English from European civilization :lol:european civilisation is fuckin' diverse. e. g. we the mediterraneans are very different, from say, people from poland or slovakia.

having said this, i don't wanna separate anything.

fantic
Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:48 PM
there must be something different. just ask a japanese "are you chinese?" and see the reaction. i had this chinese client, and i didn't know he was chinese, and i go to him with a smile and say, are you japanese, and he looked at me w/ this wtf face.

we'll have to ask japanese and chinese posters, i think

of course they are different; Chinese, Korean, Japanese, all different. but from a point of civilization, not so much. For example they all used Chinese letters for a long time, and Japan still do.

fantic
Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:52 PM
european civilisation is fuckin' diverse. e. g. we the mediterraneans are very different, from say, people from poland or slovakia.

having said this, i don't wanna separate anything.

maybe we should differentiate between sub culture and civilization. And this thread is about civilization :lol:

Europe; Greco-Roman influence, Christianity.

lee station
Oct 22nd, 2012, 09:00 PM
i would say that they are different civilisations and i'll leave it here. :) i think your view is very general, look, i'm not going to debate, i just feel that way :)

miffedmax
Oct 22nd, 2012, 09:59 PM
I guess we have to wait for a Chinese user to answer :lol:

Nubians once even conquered Egypt and ruled for a time, sorta like Mongol. I have a book about its
history (Folio edition), really should read it quickly and sell it (too bulky :sobbing:).

Was Toltecs and Maya extinguished before the Spanish came? Anyway those South American empires
were decimated by disease brought over by the Europeans(if not South Americans, North Americans
surely did. The effect was devastating)

Yes, the Mayas and the Toltecs both collapsed before the Europeans arrived in the New World. They were very advanced, but recent scholarship indicates that they may have been done in by environmental changes, in part of their own making.

It seems from what I've read recently that there were a lot more early agrarian societies around the world than we used to think beyond just the four or five classic "river valley civilizations." But for societies like the Toltecs, the Nubians and the Southern Slavic cultures, primitive agriculture was so touch and go that the slightest change could wipe it out. The Southern Slavic culture never seems to have gotten super-advanced (or maybe we just haven't found that many traces of it) but the Toltecs and the Nubians were very advanced, with major construction projects and urban centers to rival anyone else in the ancient world. Then...it was gone. Yet others flourished.

There's a useful lesson there for those what choose to heed it. Several lessons, actually.

lee station
Oct 22nd, 2012, 10:45 PM
there's the alien theory for their pyramids, etc

Sam L
Mar 21st, 2013, 11:48 AM
Yes, the Mayas and the Toltecs both collapsed before the Europeans arrived in the New World. They were very advanced, but recent scholarship indicates that they may have been done in by environmental changes, in part of their own making.

It seems from what I've read recently that there were a lot more early agrarian societies around the world than we used to think beyond just the four or five classic "river valley civilizations." But for societies like the Toltecs, the Nubians and the Southern Slavic cultures, primitive agriculture was so touch and go that the slightest change could wipe it out. The Southern Slavic culture never seems to have gotten super-advanced (or maybe we just haven't found that many traces of it) but the Toltecs and the Nubians were very advanced, with major construction projects and urban centers to rival anyone else in the ancient world. Then...it was gone. Yet others flourished.

There's a useful lesson there for those what choose to heed it. Several lessons, actually.

Yeah great post. There are actually a lot of important lessons. :o I don't know that much about the American civilisations so it's always great to learn. I think most people talk about these four because of how they influenced later civilisations that exist through today. That is, there is a continuous link whereas the others completely disappeared.

wild.river
Mar 21st, 2013, 02:21 PM
indus!
birthplace of the 3rd largest modern religion.