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Geekking
Oct 4th, 2012, 08:49 AM
Website: http://www.generali-ladies.at
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WTA.Linz
Twitter: http://twitter.com/WTALinz

Sports Venue/Stadium
Ziegeleistraße 76-78, Linz, AT.
+43 732 775230

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/559459_494894630541270_1830265156_n.jpg

Sabinator.
Oct 6th, 2012, 09:17 AM
Sabine is in Europe for few days, so she can deal with jetlag quite well :)

maturedgirl
Oct 6th, 2012, 11:06 PM
She fights the jet lag with early practice seessions :lol:

Der erste Spieltag beim Generali Ladies Linz presented by voestalpine dauert traditionell sehr lange. In diesem Jahr sogar noch ein bisschen länger. Da die Belgierin Yanina Wickmayer und die Deutsche Sabine Lisicki bereits um 7.00 Uhr morgens auf dem Center Court trainieren wollten, musste ein Teil des OK-Teams extrem früh aus den Federn – und kehrte erst spätnachts wieder dorthin zurück.

http://www.generali-ladies.at/presse/news5_392.php

Lisickinator
Oct 7th, 2012, 10:42 AM
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/12825_496353910395342_1185224816_n.jpg

Ziva
Oct 7th, 2012, 11:04 AM
Oh boy, Cirstea in her draw again.

Michael!
Oct 7th, 2012, 11:08 AM
Good first round for Sabine!
Should win her first round match against Mayr-Achleitner in two sets obviously and then hopefully faces Martic and not brainless Cirstea,that would be another ugly match, I fear :lol:

But step by step, we´ll also see if and how Azareka plays here, 2nd round is minimum goal, QF would be nice and everything better would be just great! :D

Sabinator.
Oct 7th, 2012, 12:05 PM
Mayr is just must-win match, then Martic/Cirstea, might be a little tricky for today's Sabine. QF will be a good result.

Jimmie48
Oct 7th, 2012, 01:47 PM
Oh dear, possible rematch against Sori.

Lisickinator
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:50 PM
first round on Wednesday

Michael!
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:37 PM
good that she plays an Austrian, so she will play on CC for sure and ES will show tennis from 2pm till 10pm non stop :oh:

we´ll see if I will record it or if I will be able to see it live :eek: :lol:

mk27
Oct 9th, 2012, 06:18 PM
3rd match tomorrow on CC after 02:00 PM CET

Jimmie48
Oct 9th, 2012, 09:10 PM
No Cirstea rematch, Sori was awful today.

Geekking
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:58 AM
Good morning Europe. Today is going to be a great day :cheer:

Sabinator.
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:12 AM
Of course! I can't wait to see Sabine winning :inlove: Look around 5 PM CET time :)

Geekking
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:25 PM
:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Sabinator.
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:26 PM
Of course! I can't wait to see Sabine winning :inlove: Look around 5 PM CET time :)

WTF am I thought? :facepalm: :help:

maurysicki
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:29 PM
WTF am I thought? :facepalm: :help:

I was sure of a victory today. Now I have no certainties :facepalm:

S-T-E-V-E
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Das war absolut erbärmlich...hauptsache jeden Ball mit 200 km/h übers Netz schlagen; mein Gott, wenn es mal nicht läuft muss man es halt nicht mit der Brechtstange versuchen...absolut null Verständnis für so eine Leistung, zumal die Auslosung mit einer WC in der ersten Runde nun wahrlich nicht die schlechteste ist...

CillyUltra
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:34 PM
Well, not a big suprise that she's instable in her performances atm. Just has to work hard and she will get back her form. It's meaningless anyway now that the season is heading to its end.

mk27
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:36 PM
Das war absolut erbärmlich...hauptsache jeden Ball mit 200 km/h übers Netz schlagen; mein Gott, wenn es mal nicht läuft muss man es halt nicht mit der Brechtstange versuchen...absolut null Verständnis für so eine Leistung, zumal die Auslosung mit einer WC in der ersten Runde nun wahrlich nicht die schlechteste ist...

Die Konsequenzen wird sie beim Ranking bald spüren. Nach Luxemburg werden ja noch die 165 Punkte aus Bali bei ihr abgezogen und das heißt dann gut -10 Plätze im Ranking.

S-T-E-V-E
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:38 PM
Die Konsequenzen wird sie beim Ranking bald spüren. Nach Luxemburg werden ja noch die 165 Punkte aus Bali bei ihr abgezogen und das heißt dann gut -10 Plätze im Ranking.

Und es ist halt etwas spät, bei 2-5 sich nochmal aufzubäumen...:help:

Geekking
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM
I thought this was going to be a great day :awww:

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM
Well, not a big suprise that she's instable in her performances atm. Just has too work hard and she will get back her form. It's meaningless anyway now that the season is heading to its end.

Meaningless :eek:

This was an opportunity to get back on track and save her Ranking, to get seeded at the AO.

Such a Match vs. someone like Achleitner is simply unforgivable, a must must must win, nothing else.

Her attitude was crap also,it seemed she didn't even care about it.

from frustration to anger, i bet Luxemburg will be just like that if she doesn't withdraw again :help:

Michael!
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:43 PM
it was everything but meaningless!
Was so important to finish the season with some good results and not with a pathetic defeat to Mayr, I mean we all know that Sabine needs matches and confidence for her game, now she will have zero confidence again when she starts the work in the off season and that could influence her results in Australia as well, hope that I am wrong but it will be tough for her now even if she stays injury free during the off season.

Anyway, her attitude was shit today, like Steve said and Ziva said, unforgivable to lose a match like that to such a player, really disappointing!

Beaumont
Oct 10th, 2012, 04:45 PM
The UK commentary team were ripping Sabine to pieces, and quite right too. I thought she looked unprofessional today

Ian Aberdon
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:12 PM
The UK commentary team were ripping Sabine to pieces, and quite right too. I thought she looked unprofessional today

What sort of things were they saying?

CillyUltra
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:16 PM
Her attitude was crap also,it seemed she didn't even care about it.
Obviously you need new glasses or your brain has malfunctions. :eek:

it was everything but meaningless!
Was so important to finish the season with some good results and not with a pathetic defeat to Mayr, I mean we all know that Sabine needs matches and confidence for her game, now she will have zero confidence again when she starts the work in the off season and that could influence her results in Australia as well, hope that I am wrong but it will be tough for her now even if she stays injury free during the off season.

Well, the matches against Watson, AMG, Azarenka weren't that bad. Last year she had just that win against Hantuchova and a good set against AMG after USO. As I said she's too instable atm and it's highly unlikely that wins against the likes of Mayr-Achleitner will give her that kind of confidence that lasts two month of break. Most important is to stay healthy during off season prep and start injury-free into the new season!

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Obviously you need new glasses or your brain has malfunctions. :eek:



What ?

I hope you aren't serious, everyone saw that she didn't care at all in the end.

Sorry, ist ja nett wenn man immer sagt, das wird schon, war klar sie ist noch nicht soweit, aber heute sollte man sich das verkneifen, das war einfach hochgradig peinlich.
Alle haben es gesehen, die englischen Kommentatoren waren außer sich und zwar völlig zurecht.

Wenn nicht bald die 180° Wende kommt wird das ein bitteres Jahr 2013, das wollen wir nicht hoffen aber es sieht nicht gut aus.:sad:

Beaumont
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:31 PM
What sort of things were they saying?

They were accusing her of not working hard enough on her weaknesses.

They were saying she doesn't use her head, she just smacks it really hard and has no idea what to do if it isn't working.

They were accusing her of having no patience, sometimes you need to work openings and she just tries to blast winners instead of moving her opponent around by dictating rallies

I could go on, they were not at all complimentary

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:45 PM
But they were obviously right

Patrick345
Oct 10th, 2012, 06:34 PM
But they were obviously right

Yeah I wonder whether Stach is just soft or a coward, because he needs to have more of a working relationship with the German players (or because they are "friends"). He didn´t say a damn thing about her performance till he called the 1st matchpoint saving world class. I wouldn´t even say she ballbashed from what I saw. She can certainly miss harder, but hardly worse. She just looked completely unmotivated and disinterested. This year has been a disaster and to be honest it could have been much worse. Jovanovski dominated the whole 3rd set in Wimbledon. Wasn´t Voegele up a break in the 3rd set at the Aussie Open? 11-17 off grass this year, 6-15 since February. :tape: But I have said my piece about her a long time ago and now you starting to come around. I still like her, but I follow the simple rule: If she doesn´t care, why should I?

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 06:42 PM
Well, it's only normal that Stach isn't that hard on the German girls.
And yes he knows them all very well, and he does like Sabine ;)

Overall a shitty Year, even the Highlights (AO+Wimbledo) could have been over in early Rounds with a tad bad luck.

Ranking will drop pretty fast in 2013 if she can't get out of this slump.

From this point on it can only get better regarding her form !

Dorien.
Oct 10th, 2012, 06:49 PM
Sabine :sobbing:

Bodensee
Oct 10th, 2012, 06:57 PM
For me she do not looked unmotivated and disinterested. It was just a bad performance. We have seen, she have no tactic variants, if plan A not works. And i think currently she can not play better.

Patrick345
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:24 PM
For me she do not looked unmotivated and disinterested. It was just a bad performance. We have seen, she have no tactic variants, if plan A not works. And i think currently she can not play better.

Oh that is not just about this match. It´s about the fact that she is basically the same player she was, when she won Charleston in 2009. Has her movement improved, her fitness, her attitude, her point construction? I was on the case of Laura Robson and her bad attitude, lazy footwork and everything for a while. What did she do? Hired Murray´s fitness coach to work on those aspects of her game. Hired the biggest badass coach, who pushes players to the limit in every practice (even too far for my liking, but that is beside the point). Now she starts to come around and is able to fulfil her shotmaking potential. Half the shot is footwork. Footwork as the name suggests is work. I can´t blame Lisicki for being happy with her life, it´s a great life I guess, but to me it just seems she lacks that extra desire that the elite players have. Maybe she´ll find it eventually.

JohnMcP
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:31 PM
I didn't get to see the match live (I followed it on the torture device otherwise known as Livescore)so I'm at a disadvantage as far as explaining what happened today, but I think (as usual) it is much too early to direct our anger at Sabine. From Livescore it looked like she came out firing her serves in the first game, after which everything seemed to fall off the cliff (especially her ability to serve). This seemed to me to point to an injury -- maybe a reaggravation of her abdominal injury which has continued to pop up through the entire year. From everyone's comments, it appears she was impatiently firing for winners, which would be consistent with some form of injury (although maybe more of a movement related one) -- trying to get the points over quickly knowing that your body won't hold up. One thing I can virtually guarantee is that she did not tank this match as these same comments that she seems "unmotivated" or "unconcerned" keep appearing. I'll say it again -- she holds in almost all of her negative energy and the only way I think she is capable of releasing it is through tears which she much prefers to do in the locker room. Again, I didn't see the match so I might be jumping to conclusions, but I think we all need to give time for the smoke to clear before we jump to conclusions about what is going on.

CillyUltra
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:50 PM
What ?

I hope you aren't serious, everyone saw that she didn't care at all in the end.

Yeah, that's why she didn't tank the match after being down 1*:4. Obviously her murky fans think she cares only when she cries. :happy:

CillyUltra
Oct 10th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Overall a shitty Year, even the Highlights (AO+Wimbledo) could have been over in early Rounds with a tad bad luck.

Ranking will drop pretty fast in 2013 if she can't get out of this slump.

From this point on it can only get better regarding her form !

Right. Better be in the Top 20 like Julia but achieve nothing notable. :yeah:

Ian Aberdon
Oct 10th, 2012, 08:08 PM
They were accusing her of not working hard enough on her weaknesses.

They were saying she doesn't use her head, she just smacks it really hard and has no idea what to do if it isn't working.

They were accusing her of having no patience, sometimes you need to work openings and she just tries to blast winners instead of moving her opponent around by dictating rallies

I could go on, they were not at all complimentary

Ah OK, thanks Beaumont. Basically what has been said on here then. But fear not - Cilly says everything will be OK...it's not that bad. Really. :angel:

JohnMcP
Oct 10th, 2012, 08:17 PM
I think what Cilly is saying is to take a step back and look at Sabine's career more in the long term. If she keeps playing in her present form, then talking about immediate ranking points is completely meaningless. She needs to turn a corner much like Azarenka and I think the first step is to get healthy which will probably take the off-season. She came back in 2011 and I thought she had turned that corner, but she needs to learn how to maintain her health and consistency.

maturedgirl
Oct 10th, 2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah, that's why she didn't tank the match after being down 1*:4. Obviously her murky fans think she cares only when she cries. :happy:

Der war gut :yeah: .. frei nach dem Motto "wie sie es auch macht, is immer falsch"
the season is over but I hope she still reserved some energy 4 only one victory in Lux...:angel:

For the rest I agree w @JMcP (reimt sich, cool) :lol:

JohnMcP
Oct 10th, 2012, 08:56 PM
One reason I would have liked to have watched the match is to have seen if Torsten Peschke was still her coach. Was he present at this match or was Beijing a one-time deal? I can't understand why he would have agreed to just one tournament and the last thing Sabine needs now is a different coach each tournament.

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:03 PM
Yeah, that's why she didn't tank the match after being down 1*:4. Obviously her murky fans think she cares only when she cries. :happy:

??? i didn't say she wasn't trying:rolleyes: and getting to 3-6 after 1*-4 WOW impressive two holds :lol:

Have you seen the match, after getting broken to love in second set after she did fire another easy ball 3 meters out, she was doing a whoops gesture with a little smile holding her racket in front of her face. She did that a few times.

Thats what i meant, it looked like she didn't care about the scoreline and her continuing facepalm errors.


Thank god she didn't cry because her haters would have loved that.


Right. Better be in the Top 20 like Julia but achieve nothing notable.

Well i havent said that either, but Julia is able to stay in a certain Ranking range over the whole year, which is someting Sabine lacks big time and is something she needs to get those Highlights more often which she is able to pull off.;)

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:22 PM
One reason I would have liked to have watched the match is to have seen if Torsten Peschke was still her coach. Was he present at this match or was Beijing a one-time deal? I can't understand why he would have agreed to just one tournament and the last thing Sabine needs now is a different coach each tournament.

Yes he was coaching her and her mother was also sitting in her box, her father wasn't there again.

The german commentator said that they are testing Peschke as her new coach at the moment.

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Oh that is not just about this match. It´s about the fact that she is basically the same player she was, when she won Charleston in 2009. Has her movement improved, her fitness, her attitude, her point construction? I was on the case of Laura Robson and her bad attitude, lazy footwork and everything for a while. What did she do? Hired Murray´s fitness coach to work on those aspects of her game. Hired the biggest badass coach, who pushes players to the limit in every practice (even too far for my liking, but that is beside the point). Now she starts to come around and is able to fulfil her shotmaking potential. Half the shot is footwork. Footwork as the name suggests is work. I can´t blame Lisicki for being happy with her life, it´s a great life I guess, but to me it just seems she lacks that extra desire that the elite players have. Maybe she´ll find it eventually.

:yeah:

I think this sums pretty much up what her problems are and what to do about it, first step new coach is in motion, we will see if he is the right one, currently i doubt that a bit.
She never got that charleston 2009 game back to date.

JohnMcP
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Thanks Ziva. That's good news -- but I'm not sure what it says about today's performance.

CillyUltra
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:48 PM
Ah OK, thanks Beaumont. Basically what has been said on here then. But fear not - Cilly says everything will be OK...it's not that bad. Really. :angel:

Well, obviously being active on this board makes impotent on reading. :lol:

I never said she or her team does everything right. What I'm talking about for quite some time is


when you're injured or sick all the time you can't maintain a decent level of play, you can't work on your game, you can't become more consistent on your performances, you can't become more experienced in big stage matches, you can't become a better player, you can't uphold your ranking.


Furthermore, people who are questioning her attitude or dedication for this sport are as malicious as those who are suggesting Obama delivered that poor debate performance on purpose, because he isn't interested in his office anymore (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008926).

Ziva
Oct 10th, 2012, 10:04 PM
Well, obviously being active on this board makes impotent on reading. :lol:

I never said she or her team does everything right. What I'm talking about for quite some time is


when you're injured or sick all the time you can't maintain a decent level of play, you can't work on your game, you can't become more consistent on your performances, you can't become more experienced in big stage matches, you can't become a better player, you can't uphold your ranking.


Furthermore, people who are questioning her attitude or dedication for this sport are as malicious as those who are suggesting Obama delivered that poor debate performance on purpose, because he isn't interested in his office anymore (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008926).


1. We know that and we can read, but you actually said it was rather expected that she would lose this match, but cmon it was Achleitner ranked 156 or something, Sabines injury wasn't yesterday and she played much much better vs Azarenka. So this match had to be won. ;)

2. As if one would question her overall dedication or attitude, only today it seemed not to be there like it normally is.

wagner1912
Oct 11th, 2012, 12:16 AM
I think we all Realized That played worse than what you can not do it today, and Certainly Seemed as if disoriented or something else.
She's at a time of much frustration and That costs a lot to recover and That should give impotence.
Sabine needs a change in the mentality at last Because you train to play better, but the mentality is what gets you to the top. Nobody Doubts Their conditions, but at the first failure does not react or later.
Maybe she need to rest and rearrange thoughts to feel better on the court.
Now if she have personnel issues is one thing, but do not think Because She always Displayed with joy and you would realize That, but on the court is When She looks sad.

The only one who can reverse this is sabine and in my case I will encourage through thick and thin :)

maturedgirl
Oct 11th, 2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah I wonder whether Stach is just soft or a coward, because he needs to have more of a working relationship with the German players (or because they are "friends").

thought about he knows more about why she is so out of it ;)
wonder where her dad is/ did anyone say anything about?
thanks #cillultra for brainy posts and


She looks sad.

The only one who can reverse this is sabine and in my case I will encourage through thick and thin
exactly this! ...for me she looked frustrated...but not careless! But I expected nothing than pathetic posts after a result like that ;)

If you really like somebody you don't kick a woman when she is yet down. Respect is a thing that became rare these days ;)
And if she won't play Luxembourg I won't blame her though it would be a real shame (for me) ... amen :angel:

Ziva
Oct 11th, 2012, 04:41 AM
Yeah wer all kick her, and you are the only nice fans who know exactly what she needs.:rolleyes:

Face the facts, Michael said pretty much everything whats to say about her performance yesterday in the live scoring thread, it ain't pretty, but its what happened, we all saw it.
She was frustrated, wasnt able to adapt, mentaly gave up at some point and it ended nearly as bad as julias match vs. Radwanska at the AO.

Shit happens, we all have bad days, she could repair a bit of the damage in Luxemburg, if she can get her game going somehow, but she can not withdraw.
This would be the worst to go into the offseason after such a shamefull loss.

Getreten wird sie über alle Maßen auf FB und Twitter und das sehr unfair, einige hier machen da ja auch immer kräftig mit nicht wahr !!

Also lasst mal jedem seine Meinung und wenn 5 von 10, sowie die kommentatoren sagen sie war nicht voll bei der Sache, dann hat das nix mit bashing zutun.

Wir wollen doch alle nur das beste für die große blonde ;)

Auf nach Luxemburg, kann nurnoch besser werden :)

maurysicki
Oct 11th, 2012, 12:31 PM
I repeat it for months.

Sabine has absolutely need to rebuild phisically and mentally.
But first of all she must to rebuild itself mentally. Yesterday she played badly is true, but his opponent did not do anything to win. She did it all by herself giving points on points with errors on really easy balls. Would have been enough just to think and not throw the ball at 200 km to right and left closing her eyes. Would have been enough to win the match by playing bad as yesterday, and so do the players with using the brain, they win and pass over, also in a bad day.

Because I have not seen a decrease or lack of fitness, I've only seen a lack of head, hurry to close the points and the fear of losing. But we have seen some good shot during the match.
Because Sabine has talent. Now not knowing his personal affairs in his life, I will continue to think that this is only a problem of approach to the match that she can solve with the help of a good coach and a good team.

Of course my support to Sabine remains the same.

Peace.

jetglo
Oct 11th, 2012, 01:22 PM
The only one who can reverse this is sabine and in my case I will encourage through thick and thin :)

Now there's a phrase not heard nearly enough. Encourage, support, these are things fans do, outside of TF anyway.


thought about he knows more about why she is so out of it ;)
wonder where her dad is/ did anyone say anything about?
thanks #cillultra for brainy posts and

exactly this! ...for me she looked frustrated...but not careless! But I expected nothing than pathetic posts after a result like that ;)

If you really like somebody you don't kick a woman when she is yet down. Respect is a thing that became rare these days ;)
And if she won't play Luxembourg I won't blame her though it would be a real shame (for me) ... amen :angel:

Agree 100% as usual.


I've watched Julia play the same kind of match, and more than once. I've heard some of the same posters here make the same predictions about her. Out of top 50 by the end of the season, even calling for her to retire.

Now that Julia is moving up the rankings rather than down, they're here with their "expert advice" and predicting powers. No thanks, it was bad enough reading that crap once.

Beaumont
Oct 11th, 2012, 01:54 PM
I'm convinced there's something going on in Sabine's life that is affecting her

She's lost her sparkle, her eyes look dull, she looks unhappy

I think it's more than just poor form, I think it's something else and her terrible results are a consequence

Ziva
Oct 11th, 2012, 02:26 PM
Now there's a phrase not heard nearly enough. Encourage, support, these are things fans do, outside of TF anyway.




Agree 100% as usual.


I've watched Julia play the same kind of match, and more than once. I've heard some of the same posters here make the same predictions about her. Out of top 50 by the end of the season, even calling for her to retire.

Now that Julia is moving up the rankings rather than down, they're here with their "expert advice" and predicting powers. No thanks, it was bad enough reading that crap once.

Well Julias Ranking was never in doubt for anyone who is able to calculate.
I wich in Sabines case it would be the same, she needs to win 2 or more matches in Luxemburg or she could get Azarenka, Serena etc. in Round one of the AO. I can already hear the moans over her bad draw then :tape:

Ziva
Oct 11th, 2012, 02:27 PM
I'm convinced there's something going on in Sabine's life that is affecting her

She's lost her sparkle, her eyes look dull, she looks unhappy

I think it's more than just poor form, I think it's something else and her terrible results are a consequence


Well losing all the time does that to you after a while :sad:

Only thing i wonder about regarding her offcourt stuff is her father, where is he, whats wrong ?

Beaumont
Oct 11th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Yes, I agree with that 100%

Perhaps he's unwell, or maybe Sabine's parents are even having marital problems

I can tell she's unhappy, and even her social networking activities have been scaled down

Ian Aberdon
Oct 11th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Hopefully it's nothing to do with off the court.

JohnMcP
Oct 11th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Everyone was screaming "fire the coach" and "make some changes" and now are questioning why her father is not around. :confused: Perhaps she is indeed in the process of making those changes. I think Sabine has found comfort in the past in her parents and her routine with IMG and maybe getting outside this cocoon would be good for her. As oopposed to the many overbearing tennis parents who have forced themselves on their children, Sabine has the sweetest parents in the world, so her being sheltered has largely been her own doing. Therefore, we shouldn't be surprised if making these changes affects her emotionally.

I have no problem with people giving constructive criticism but what I can't understand to save my life is the anger that seems to be directed at Sabine. It seems to be directed by "fans" who simply have been following the wrong player all these years.



Furthermore, people who are questioning her attitude or dedication for this sport are as malicious as those who are suggesting Obama delivered that poor debate performance on purpose, because he isn't interested in his office anymore (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008926).
[/LIST]

While my first instinct was to keep politics out of this forum, I think the analogy is right on point here. Obama never has been a cutthroat debater, so the anger directed at him this past week by his "supporters" for not being a cutthroat debater last week has left me confused. Likewise, the anger directed at Sabine after every headscratching defeat has left me befuddled. Just look at the Cheering Thread from the very beginning -- Sabine's career beginning at age 15 has been marked by mind-numbing victories followed by headscratching defeats. Why anyone would be surprised now is beyond me. No one wants to break out of this pattern more than Sabine, so directing anger at her is not only pointless, but mean-spirited. Let's continue to support her in her own efforts to turn the corner and realize her potential. She owes us nothing, so if you feel cheated by her, then I think it best to find another player to support.

Beaumont
Oct 11th, 2012, 06:01 PM
JohnMcP,

You're right, she's always had a very close, precious relationship with her parents
However, her dad won an award for coach of the year in 2011, so I don't believe Sabine will have dumped him, that's just not her.
Her mum was in Linz, but no sign of dad at all. That seems strange to me, that he wasn't even there with them

maturedgirl
Oct 11th, 2012, 06:07 PM
Everyone was screaming "fire the coach" and "make some changes" and now are questioning why her father is not around. :confused:

:lol: Tbh ... I only started the "where's her daddy?" discussian to see if the reaction would be as usual and I had much fun to get the affirmation... same crappy comments as usual...since some weeks/months (don't remember) I stopped reading the opportunistic posts in TF / found a better place to exchange views with real fans. It's really getting annoying...:rolleyes:


She owes us nothing, so if you feel cheated by her, then I think it best to find another player to support.

If "they" only could...it would be a better place here but obsession pays off and sometimes (too much) love flashs to anger :devil:

Ziva
Oct 11th, 2012, 06:17 PM
JohnMcP,

You're right, she's always had a very close, precious relationship with her parents
However, her dad won an award for coach of the year in 2011, so I don't believe Sabine will have dumped him, that's just not her.
Her mum was in Linz, but no sign of dad at all. That seems strange to me, that he wasn't even there with them

exactly my thoughts, i welcome the change, but it seems strange that he isn't around at least.

John, you should read carefully whats been said, mainly some analysed her match, sure there always is some kind of desperation and maybe a bit of anger, but thats not meant to harm at all.
Others are always holding her hand over her and say it's not that bad, it will all come back eventually.
Both ways are legit, but none is better than the other.

Only one thing is clear, everyone who follows her carrer for longer than a year, has seen by now that she is at her alltime low, her game and especially her mental condition is alarming, so don't blame the ones who point this out, because we are all very worried right now.

The match is on Youtube btw. and scrolling through it literaly hurts, she lost her sparkle out there :sad:

We need a Lisicki wonder in Luxemburg, a big one !!!

JohnMcP
Oct 11th, 2012, 07:53 PM
I agree that many off the comments were merely a show of frustration and no one can be a fan of Sabine's without being frustrated at the moment. My only concern is with the comments that aim this frustration directly at Sabine in a mean-spirited manner. I have refrained from criticizing anyone individually because I realize many if not most of the posters here are using a second language and it is best to give people the benefit of the doubt about what they are saying. (I think most of the bickering between posters in this subforum have resulted from simple misunderstanding which is only magnified by such use of language). Not only from the comments following yesterday's loss but it seems over and over again, people seem surprised by Sabine's performance and personally angry at her. If this was not meant by an individual's comments then I am not directing my commments at you and I apologize if they were construed in that way.

Although yesterday's loss was a head-scratcher of all head-scratchers, I must respectfully disagree that this is the low point of her career. In 2010 she missed five months and there was serious concern over whether she would even play again. I remember feeling relief later in the year merely that she was back on the court. Her ranking plummetted and continued to plummet in early 2011 when she FAILED TO QUALIFY for the Australian Open. I think in many ways this was the low point of her careet as her ranking went down to 218. Therefore, I cannot understand all the handwringing at the moment that she might not be seeded at the 2013 Australian Open. She rebounded in 2011 and I feel she can do so again.

Ziva
Oct 11th, 2012, 08:45 PM
Yes thats what i meant, the frustration is huge at the moment.
But a few clearly only want to provoke, being all nice here, destroying her elswhere and putting hate on the ones that criticise her mostly constructive here .:confused:

In Ranking ways she was much worse, thats right, but the last match was a low point Tennis wise, even after her huge injury she played much better than this. 2010/11 ITF Sabine would have trashed Achleitner IMO.

we will see if she can bounce back 2013, this year is over. A win in Luxemburg seems impossible at the moment, but at least sometimes she can surprise like no other.
Seeing how Petkovic is getting better each match at the moment after a really big injury shows that Sabine has somewhat taken steps backwards instead of forward the whole year and thats the main thing that's alarming. It sounds easy, she will play better in 2013 and get back up, but you can get stuck on the way and never get back, happened so often to great players :sad:
This is what many of us fear, especially the ones who were along the ride last time she had to come back from nowhere !

The best we can hope for is a win in Luxemburg and a jumpstart in 2013 after getting her game back in the offseason.
New coach is there, if he stays, so far too early to judge Mr. Peschke's work, we will see if he can help her, especially mentaly and regarding her gameplan.

Hopefully this time next year we can laugh about this slump and everything is alright :)

wagner1912
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:18 PM
She has always had ups and downs in his career and I think his real frustration is its irregularity and the inability to play several tournaments in a row and on the same level. With Azarenka had taken a good step, but yesterday stepped back ten steps and then always returns to the same.
Must be something tiring because you can not get foothold
The clear example is when she is good and even taking several errors can win and when the opposite is impossible for her to return.
I think she really needs tranquility above all, be healthy, play and have fun as it usually does and that everything good exceeds the bad that may happen... and from there find equilibrium

This good that each of their views always with respect

We do not Have the Solution, You Just Have to Encourage and support!

Ziva
Oct 12th, 2012, 12:32 AM
Those Tweets some assholes send to Sabine :mad::fiery:

Hopefully she takes a long Twitter break and doesn't read this Bullshit

jasonwright25
Oct 12th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Those Tweets some assholes send to Sabine :mad::fiery:

Hopefully she takes a long Twitter break and doesn't read this Bullshit

There are jackasses all over the world. Hopefully she'll just grow some thick skin and realize that sometimes people are just stupid.

jetglo
Oct 12th, 2012, 04:25 AM
A thick skin is always easier when things are going well, if you're in an emotional low, your defences are down as well.

I remember when Jarmila Gajdosova's marriage failed and her form slumped, she received some horrible tweets and abandoned twitter for some time afterwards.

I really hope Sabine is not getting tweets as bad as they were, I don't want to know what was said either, any attention only encourages these assholes.

Ziva, you say "sure there always is some kind of desperation and maybe a bit of anger, but thats not meant to harm at all," but is that how things are dealt with successfully in real life?

Do you attack a family member or friend out of frustration and anger, only knowing some of the situation? How does that approach work? Are they supposed to sense there's no harm intended when all
they hear is anger and frustration? Maybe your world is different, but in mine, nothing positive is ever achieved by doing that.

The internet is different of course, people say things here that would never be said face to face. Who would, if they had the chance to see Sabine in the locker room after this last match, with the same dejected look on her face she walked off with, or worse, actually repeat the "frustrated and angry" comments that have been written here? If delivered effectively, maybe you could make her cry.

I may have a more positive view than some here and that extends to all things. I've learned that it's a better way to live. I used to be more negative, "realistic" would be what I'd like to call it, but I met some cancer sufferers a while back, and they talked very strongly about their need to keep a positive outlook, as negativity can have physical implications. It left a lasting impression on me, because they were fighting for their lives and were so determined not to let that get them down, it made any problems I had seem trivial in comparison.

So much of how we look at things is shaped by perspective and outlook, you can put a positive or negative spin on most things if you set your mind to it. I choose the positive, which doesn't mean I'm weak or blind, it's just how I try to deal with things now. I try not to worry about things I have absolutely no control over, because ultimately it's pointless and doesn't do me any good. I don't think anything good gets built on a mountain of negativity. :)

JohnMcP
Oct 12th, 2012, 05:33 AM
Exactly -- there is nothing weak about having a positive attitude in the face of adversity. Maybe we need to learn from Sabine herself. Just look on Youtube at her long interview with Tracy from Wilson which if I remeber correctly was taken the day after she failed to qualify at the Australian in 2011. If not the low point of her career, it was certainly one of the low points -- yet Sabine was as sweet and positive as ever. Some may see this as a sign that she could have cared less about failing to qualify and that she needed a kick in the rear. But I'm sure it was a painful experience for her and the interview shows her ability to remain positive even in the worst of times. I think this ability was instrumental in her comeback in 2011.

I watched yesterday's match on Youtube, and it appears to me that she was sick from the very beginning. She appeared pale and lacked adrenaline throughout the match except at the very beginning and the end. She continued to try drop shots which were ridiculous even for her, especially since not a single one worked. For whatever reason, she felt she had to end the points quickly. I don't know for sure if she was sick, but as Jetglo said, it is pointless to direct anger at Sabine when we don't have the full story. If Sabine needs a kick in the pants, it is certainly not for us to do so.

jetglo
Oct 12th, 2012, 07:08 AM
There was a toilet break which isn't usually seen after one set, especially one over as quick as that. She didn't seem herself for sure. I haven't managed to watch the Kerber Wimbledon match again, so this one may take me a while too. :)

I think she's being professional in the Wilson YouTube as they would expect her to be. Also, pro players learn how to put yesterdays loss behind them quickly. They don't have the luxury of dwelling upon things for days or weeks, the tour is relentless. Apart from an analysis of where things went wrong, time spent constantly replaying a match in your mind and endlessly torturing yourself with the result is time wasted today on a yesterday that will never change.

The future waits to be defined and that's what needs to be focused on and taken advantage of. A positive attitude and a short memory when it comes to failures can only help in that regard. Other players will be doing their best to psych you out, you don't want to be doing that job for them. :)

Beaumont
Oct 12th, 2012, 07:45 AM
Where did you guys hear about her receiving nasty tweets?

I'm afraid that comes with being famous these days, you have to accept the world is full of idiots and when they are hiding behind their keyboards and screens, they say whatever they wish

Sabine just needs to remember that for every 1 guy who is abusing her, there are 10 abusing themselves!!

Ziva
Oct 12th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Go to Twitter and search for @sabinelisicki.

Same crap they did to gajdosova, but I guess Sabine is strong enough to handle that better.

Ziva
Oct 12th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Ziva, you say "sure there always is some kind of desperation and maybe a bit of anger, but thats not meant to harm at all," but is that how things are dealt with successfully in real life?

Do you attack a family member or friend out of frustration and anger, only knowing some of the situation? How does that approach work? Are they supposed to sense there's no harm intended when all
they hear is anger and frustration? Maybe your world is different, but in mine, nothing positive is ever achieved by doing that

:lol:
Its not like anyone here did any of that you describe, as if there was a single attack against her and remind yourself, we do not write her a letter, we discuss something in a forum. The outta line shits you can see on twitter and what I just saw on her facebook now. :help:

Blowing off steam is also a very good thing in life, I wouldn't mind if Sabine would destroy a racket on court in frustration, maybe it helps, maybe not, but it's better than just taking it and getting more angry on yourself, which I think she does at times, thinking about her meltdown on the practise court a few months back.

Ziva
Oct 12th, 2012, 12:27 PM
I think she's being professional in the Wilson YouTube as they would expect her to be. Also, pro players learn how to put yesterdays loss behind them quickly. They don't have the luxury of dwelling upon things for days or weeks, the tour is relentless. Apart from an analysis of where things went wrong, time spent constantly replaying a match in your mind and endlessly torturing yourself with the result is time wasted today on a yesterday that will never change.

The future waits to be defined and that's what needs to be focused on and taken advantage of. A positive attitude and a short memory when it comes to failures can only help in that regard. Other players will be doing their best to psych you out, you don't want to be doing that job for them. :)

Sure she is and will be :)

maurysicki
Oct 12th, 2012, 12:42 PM
:worship:

Is always a pleasure to read that there are real fans of Sabine, able to analyze the situation with clarity. It is a pity that there is someone who comes to writing only when Bine loses spewing criticism not constructive. These personages they like the people of Twitter, leave the time they find, but nothing more. Sabine is certainly strong enough to ignore them. (if she reads what people write on the internet of course).
:)

jetglo
Oct 12th, 2012, 07:24 PM
:lol:
Its not like anyone here did any of that you describe, as if there was a single attack against her and remind yourself, we do not write her a letter, we discuss something in a forum. The outta line shits you can see on twitter and what I just saw on her facebook now. :help:

Blowing off steam is also a very good thing in life, I wouldn't mind if Sabine would destroy a racket on court in frustration, maybe it helps, maybe not, but it's better than just taking it and getting more angry on yourself, which I think she does at times, thinking about her meltdown on the practise court a few months back.

It's HOW you go about blowing off steam that's the issue. You think breaking a racquet on court would be fine, but that's you, not everyone else. Maybe you use the term brainless frequently and don't consider that an attack on someone, but that's you. What you consider a "discussion," others may see as a series of bitter diatribes.

I would have thought by now it was obvious that at least some of us don't agree with the "blowing off of steam" in this sub-forum. I can't speak for anyone but myself, so I'll try and make my position really clear. It's got nothing to do with defending Sabine at all, it's the attitudes frequently displayed here that piss ME off! You may think you're blowing off steam, but you're also spoiling it for me, and probably others, because I have to read that shit if I come on here. You get rid of your shit by blowing it off, and I end up copping that shit in the face so you can feel better? Try to find another way to blow of your steam that isn't so selfish.

There are so many ways of blowing off steam that don't impact negatively on others, all you need to do is think about it, and about the rest of us. :)

Ziva
Oct 12th, 2012, 07:53 PM
LOL i love it how you always talk like i was blowing of steam or was harsh, because i wasn't at all.
I only said it was a bad match and it looked like she didn't care like she normally does, that's it, you can even read this in match reports from experts that watched the match. Agree or don't no problem.

You should discuss this with others that may have done what you describe and best via PM, because the only thing we are talking about in this thread is how much a few hate some posts of people which aren't even here at the moment.

Linz is over, lets move on finally

jetglo
Oct 13th, 2012, 03:07 AM
LOL i love it how you always talk like i was blowing of steam or was harsh, because i wasn't at all.
I only said it was a bad match and it looked like she didn't care like she normally does, that's it, you can even read this in match reports from experts that watched the match. Agree or don't no problem.

You should discuss this with others that may have done what you describe and best via PM, because the only thing we are talking about in this thread is how much a few hate some posts of people which aren't even here at the moment.

Linz is over, lets move on finally

A short memory masquerading as a clear conscience.

PM sent

rucolo
Oct 13th, 2012, 12:40 PM
Sabine :facepalm:

How can you lose 1-6 3-6 to Mayr-Achleitner :cuckoo:

A new low for Sabine. She has no brain :help:

JohnMcP
Oct 13th, 2012, 01:33 PM
LOL i love it how you always talk like i was blowing of steam or was harsh, because i wasn't at all.


This is exactly what I meant when I said the written word can be misinterpreted and can lead to personal spats when nothing was intended in the first place. I once sent an email to my brother thinking that it was a meaningless, throwaway comment and that, because I thought the sarcasm was obvious, I didn't bother to use any "lol" or ":lol:". As it turned out, my brother didn't speak to me for two weeks. The lesson is to take a step back and not assume the worst in other people and, at the same time, realize our own words might not appear to others as we intended. This is a subforum supposedly to support Sabine, so the idea that it would devolve into personal spats is absurd.