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View Full Version : Is Serena the Only Heavyweight?


lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 10:53 PM
yet again i'm hearing commentators (eurosport) using the same old boxing analogy in referring to serena as a heavyweight and her opponent as light/middle etc

i fully recognise serena has more strength than most, but nevertheless, i've never heard anyone use this analogy while commentating on sharapova/kvitova dismantling an opponent

there are allusions here which i don't feel are entirely acceptable. tennis is not won by strength alone, yet even if it was, there are other physically imposing players

it feels it's a mainstay of commentators to continually refer to serena's physicality above her skills as a tennis player. is it her type of build which provokes this, or is it the persistent belief that she and venus are athletes first, tennis players second?

ShiftyFella
Sep 7th, 2012, 10:57 PM
I think they referring to man like serving by Rena

Cosmic Voices
Sep 7th, 2012, 10:58 PM
it's her type of build that provokes the comments. and tbf the commentators are right.
masha is a different kind of heavyweight in the sense she's tall and gangly, whilst rena is quite stocky

Tennis Fool
Sep 7th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Not according to the USTA :tape:

Pasta-Na
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:00 PM
Little Jie said the same thing. :secret:

TheHangover
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:01 PM
isn't it a fact that she is an heavyweight compared to the other players? there is no need to be offended, she is not fat, it's her structure plus a lot of muscles

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:07 PM
We'll never know what their motivation is, there are always people (with different agenda) out there who will take and run with it in their intention to insult Serena.

dencod16
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:15 PM
LOL, it's not an insult it's actually a praise, oh how people can just twist words. They said that she is like a good heavyweight against errani a good lightweight, because you don't really expect a lightweight to beat up a heavyweight now do you. It's like saying that it doesn;t matter how good errani plays Serena is just far better than her. It has nothing to do with weight.

lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:18 PM
isn't it a fact that she is an heavyweight compared to the other players? there is no need to be offended, she is not fat, it's her structure plus a lot of muscles

i thought i acknowledged that. sharapova and kvitova are considerably taller and not lacking in strength (sharapova in particular has put on a lot of muscle in her trunk and legs since her early days) yet i've never heard this analogy while they're wiping the floor with someone

i'm talking about the persistent insinuation that serena is more athletic than skilled

lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:20 PM
LOL, it's not an insult it's actually a praise, oh how people can just twist words. They said that she is like a good heavyweight against errani a good lightweight, because you don't really expect a lightweight to beat up a heavyweight now do you. It's like saying that it doesn;t matter how good errani plays Serena is just far better than her. It has nothing to do with weight.

there are many things she does better than errani, it's implying an unfair advantage, something not implied when any other physically imposing player is dominating, or am i wrong? is this analogy used elsewhere?

NashaMasha
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:24 PM
Heaviweight is not an insult , Mike Tyson was heavyweight, despite low % of fat and not being tall ... Same for Evander

Serena -heavyweight
Sharapova, Azarenka,Kvitova,Lisicki, Petrova - cruiserweight
Stosur, Li Na - super middleweight
Radwanska Kerber - light middleweight
Errani . Vinci - lightweight

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:25 PM
Heaviweight is not an insult , Mike Tyson was heavyweight, despite low % of fat and not being tall ... Same for Evander

Serena -heavyweight
Sharapova, Azarenka,Kvitova,Lisicki, Petrova - cruiserweight
Stosur, Li Na - super middleweight
Radwanska Kerber - light middleweight
Errani . Vinci - lightweight

Not quiet, the actual weight of the boxer comes into play.
Some boxers have to lose some pound to make weight, other have to gain weight to go to the next weigh class.


Are these case WTA players classification based on their power of their shots?
How is Stosur and Na li lower than Maria, Vika?

Cosmic Voices
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:27 PM
and Ana?

headcaseweight

NashaMasha
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:28 PM
and Ana?

add her to Stosur and Na , but she is more and more becoming punchbag in this weight

lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:29 PM
Heaviweight is not an insult , Mike Tyson was heavyweight, despite low % of fat and not being tall ... Same for Evander

Serena -heavyweight
Sharapova, Azarenka,Kvitova,Lisicki, Petrova - cruiserweight
Stosur, Li Na - super middleweight
Radwanska Kerber - light middleweight
Errani . Vinci - lightweight

think you've missed the point, didn't say she wasn't strong etc, didn't say it was an insult in and of itself, nevermind

NashaMasha
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:31 PM
i fully recognise serena has more strength than most, but nevertheless, i've never heard anyone use this analogy while commentating on sharapova/kvitova dismantling an opponent

even Mats Trollander was telling this about Errani-Sahrapova matchup

Julian.
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:36 PM
add her to Stosur and Na , but she is more and more becoming punchbag in this weight

:hysteric:

lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:37 PM
even Mats Trollander was telling this about Errani-Sahrapova matchup

ok, thanks. wasn't aware of that

roguedandelion
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:39 PM
I have actually heard them refer to Sharapova as a heavy weight when crushing some hapless little girl. Tbh, there are far too many boxy analogies in American tennis commentary.

FattyKid
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:40 PM
Serena's not even big by American standards :o

Diesel
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:40 PM
I think they referring to man like serving by Rena

What's woman like serving?

Morrissey
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:46 PM
yet again i'm hearing commentators (eurosport) using the same old boxing analogy in referring to serena as a heavyweight and her opponent as light/middle etc

i fully recognise serena has more strength than most, but nevertheless, i've never heard anyone use this analogy while commentating on sharapova/kvitova dismantling an opponent

there are allusions here which i don't feel are entirely acceptable. tennis is not won by strength alone, yet even if it was, there are other physically imposing players

it feels it's a mainstay of commentators to continually refer to serena's physicality above her skills as a tennis player. is it her type of build which provokes this, or is it the persistent belief that she and venus are athletes first, tennis players second?

I think the OP is alluding to the racism and sexism black female athletes experience in a white supremacist culture.

People may think it is a complement but it is also a backhanded racist and sexist comment.

The heavyweight comment is attempting to make Serena appear masculine and not feminine.

It is just like Cibulkova and Jankovic calling Stosur half a man because she can hit a big kick serve.

These racist commentators don't mention Serena's intelligence, or her strategy, or her out thinking her opponents on court.

It is offensive but not surprising the subtle racist bigotry Serena experiences because she's a black woman.

The Eurosport commentators call Serena a heavyweight because they are racist. If Serena was a white woman I doubt she would be called a heavyweight. Is Samantha Stosur a heavyweight she has bigger muscles than Serena? What about Mauresmo she's a pretty strong woman too.

TennisSLO
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:47 PM
What's woman like serving?

Errani serve. ;)

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:51 PM
Errani serve. ;)
And Maria (before her shoulder fucked up her serve), Petrova, Sam and other less known players with big serve? Kiki Vandeweghe

Are you referring to speed or disguise?

Becool
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:54 PM
kerber? shes heavyweight for sure.

lloyders76
Sep 7th, 2012, 11:59 PM
I think the OP is alluding to the racism and sexism black female athletes experience in a white supremacist culture.

People may think it is a complement but it is also a backhanded racist and sexist comment.

The heavyweight comment is attempting to make Serena appear masculine and not feminine.

It is just like Cibulkova and Jankovic calling Stosur half a man because she can hit a big kick serve.

These racist commentators don't mention Serena's intelligence, or her strategy, or her out thinking her opponents on court.

It is offensive but not surprising the subtle racist bigotry Serena experiences because she's a black woman.

The Eurosport commentators call Serena a heavyweight because they are racist. If Serena was a white woman I doubt she would be called a heavyweight. Is Samantha Stosur a heavyweight she has bigger muscles than Serena? What about Mauresmo she's a pretty strong woman too.


i'm wary of making this about race, i don't post much but i read the level of debate most people descend to on here.

but thanks for recognising my issue with this line of commentary, Serena is a player with terrific technique, court smarts and feel. that's why the insinuation that it's an unfair match due to serena's size rankles

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:37 AM
i'm wary of making this about race, i don't post much but i read the level of debate most people descend to on here.

but thanks for recognising my issue with this line of commentary, Serena is a player with terrific technique, court smarts and feel. that's why the insinuation that it's an unfair match due to serena's size rankles
Welcome to the TF.

For many posters here , they would not bother with insinuations or other cloak language.
They are perfectly OK with reducing Serena's game to brute force, followed by she should join the ATP.


They disingenuously dismiss any other aspect of her game that has nothing to do with power.
The disguise and placement of her serve, her non-changing toss motion regardless of where she is serving.

For example, they discount or take away the work and time she put in to perfect her serve, the adjustment she makes on court during the matches, the anticipation...etc..

lloyders76
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:56 AM
Welcome to the TF.

For many posters here , they would not bother with insinuations or other cloak language.
They are perfectly OK with reducing Serena's game to brute force, followed by she should join the ATP.


They disingenuously dismiss any other aspect of her game that has nothing to do with power.
The disguise and placement of her serve, her non-changing toss motion regardless of where she is serving.

For example, they discount or take away the work and time she put in to perfect her serve, the adjustment she makes on court during the matches, the anticipation...etc..


i hesitate to say this as a big venus fan, and it's probably simplifying, but given they both have power and physical gifts (not identical gifts obvs) i think serena demonstrates how far you can take that if you are technically sound, smart and willing to alter stroke production to become as effective as possible

i'm not sure venus has done the same and their careers have diverged hugely in the last 4 years

amazing to think that going into their 08 us open qtr venus was on 7 slams to serena's 8, and prob would have equalled serena had she taken that match, instead serena has surged ahead in the stats

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:09 AM
i hesitate to say this as a big venus fan, and it's probably simplifying, but given they both have power and physical gifts (not identical gifts obvs) i think serena demonstrates how far you can take that if you are technically sound, smart and willing to alter stroke production to become as effective as possible

i'm not sure venus has done the same and their careers have diverged hugely in the last 4 years

amazing to think that going into their 08 us open qtr venus was on 7 slams to serena's 8, and prob would have equalled serena had she taken that match, instead serena has surged ahead in the stats
I don't want to make this a Serena-Venus thread.

I am also primarily a Venus fan, and I think her biggest problem is her stubbornness.

Serena is not shy or afraid at seeking input outside of her inner circle.
I have no solid evidence, but just by observation, I think she is more willing and eager to develop specific aspects of her game than Venus.

Serena has hired people to work on specific area of her development.

For example, before coming back form her illness, she hired a fitness coach just to get her endurance and muscle strength to an adequate level.
Right now, she has been working with a French consultant she hire around FO, I heard his role is more psychological than technical or physical.
All these things keep Serena ahead of the game.

Volcana
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:25 AM
Of course there are other 'heavyweights'. In the last couple days, I actually referred to the Azarenka-Sharapova macthup as a light-heavyweight fighting a heavyweight more than once.

But besides Sharapova, Stosur and Safina and Venus and Davenport all come right to mind. I'm not sure Kvitova is really a legit heavyweight. Bluntly, she overweight. Bartoli is no heaveyweight either, trimmed down the way she is now.

I know that kind of language is loaded for some of you, both racially and sexually, but for fight fans, it's an obvious analogy. They are both combat sports, one perhaps the most refined, one perhaps the most primal, but both combat sports.

Henin could whack the hell out of the ball, but she had to put her whole body into the shot to do it. Serena can 'arm' the ball and still hit it hard.

The lighter-weight players do win. Sometimes. Like today. Azarenka didn't, to me, seem to be hitting as hard as Sharapova, but she was hitting it hard, and accurately, and she attacked Sharapova's forehand like a tiger shark, even when the balls were coming back faster 10mph faster than she hit hem.

But Errani was a flyweight fighting a heavyweight. Her only shot in that match was Serena getting impatient. The balls she hits are traveling so slowly, Serena had no trouble setting up perfectly for almost every shot.


NOTE: I thought, pre-match, Errani might give Serena trouble.

Volcana
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:44 AM
I know there is a lot of endorsement money riding on it, but women's tennis has to get less sensitive about weight. To go back to fighting as an analogy, fighters actual weights are known, at least 24 hours before a fight. There weigh-ins are televised. They forfeit half their contract for not making weight.

Sharapova's wta bio lists her weight at 130lbs. She's 6'2.
Errani's listed weight is 132lbs. She's 5'4.
Ronda Rousey, the women's Strikeforce 135lb champs, is 5'6", a razor lean, like most mma fighters. See below.
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2.jpg
http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/media/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2-sm.jpg

If Rousey is 135 lbs, Sharapova is 180lb easy. Bearing in mind Sharapova is literally EIGHT inch taller, and has those big wide shoulders.

Serena listed weight of 155lbs is ... probably a bit fantastical as well, but Serena's only 5'9. (And a half, if you ask me. She shorter than Clijsters though.)

Are we really to go along with the fantasy that the physical size and power of Sharapova and Serena make NO difference?

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:49 AM
I know there is a lot of endorsement money riding on it, but women's tennis has to get less sensitive about weight. To go back to fighting as an analogy, fighters actual weights are known, at least 24 hours before a fight. There weigh-ins are televised. They forfeit half their contract for not making weight.

Sharapova's wta bio lists her weight at 130lbs. She's 6'2.
Errani's listed weight is 132lbs. She's 5'4.
Ronda Rousey, the women's Strikeforce 135lb champs, is 5'6", a razor lean, like most mma fighters. See below.
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2.jpg
http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/media/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2-sm.jpg
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2.jpg (http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2.jpg)
http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/media/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2-sm.jpg (http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/media/ronda-rousey-espn-body-issue-2-sm.jpg)

If Rousey is 135 lbs, Sharapova is 180lb easy. Bearing in mind Sharapova is literally EIGHT inch taller, nd has those big wide shoulders.

Serena listed weight of 155lbs is ... probably a bit fantastical as well, but Serena's only 5'9. (And a half, if you ask me. She shorter than Clijsters though.)

How much does Ana, your laboratory model of athlete weigh and body fat, weigh?

Volcana
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:58 AM
How much does Ana, your laboratory model of athlete weigh and body fat, weigh?Obviously, I have no true idea. She's quite slender now.

At a guess, assuming she's 6'1", has actual muscles, and is a world class athlete?

Less than Azarenka, certainly. WAY less than Sharapova or Venus.

Hopefully not less than 145. Let's not become Meghann Shaughnessy.

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2012, 02:06 AM
Obviously, I have no true idea. She's quite slender now.

At a guess, assuming she's 6'1", has actual muscles, and is a world class athlete?

Less than Azarenka, certainly. WAY less than Sharapova or Venus.

Hopefully not less than 145. Let's not become Meghann Shaughnessy.
I think she is probably 6'1", but I doubt she is more than 140 lbs and is close to Maria and Venus height.

Maria weight on WTA is probably outdated. Now she has solid muscles and built like a true athlete.

I would use way " way too thin" rather than "slender".
Venus is slender, Ana is way too thin.

NashaMasha
Sep 8th, 2012, 02:09 AM
Ana is close to Hantuchova now

StoneRose
Sep 8th, 2012, 02:09 AM
Serena's very all round player, there's so much more to it than just brute force. There are players hitting harder than Serena but there's none that does it so consistently.

Cajka
Sep 8th, 2012, 02:36 AM
What's woman like serving?

Hundreds of double faults. That's probably why they compared Verdasco to WTA players although his serve is fast. If a woman can serve 20 aces and no double faults, people think that there's something wrong with her while she should be a role model, especially since she's not so tall and her serve placement is amazing and very hard to read, it is fast, but the speed is not what makes it great.

FoxyliciousKhat
Sep 8th, 2012, 03:26 AM
What's woman like serving?

ROFL this I'd like to know too. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Maybe Gilles Simon can tell us.:lol:

Foxy

pov
Sep 8th, 2012, 03:38 AM
LOL, it's not an insult it's actually a praise, oh how people can just twist words. They said that she is like a good heavyweight against errani a good lightweight, because you don't really expect a lightweight to beat up a heavyweight now do you. It's like saying that it doesn;t matter how good errani plays Serena is just far better than her. It has nothing to do with weight.
:yeah: Thanks. It was amazing to see how some on here twist/interpret it. Used as it is the term has nothing to do with physicality - it means top-level. A person who is closing the big deals will be called a "financial heavyweight" I've seen "fashion heavyweight" used. Calling in those considered the top experts is often styled as "calling in the heavyweights." So Williams is the "heavyweight" "the big gun"

Volcana
Sep 8th, 2012, 03:55 AM
Maria weight on WTA is probably outdated. Now she has solid muscles and built like a true athlete.Well, if 'outdated' = 'less than Sharapova weighed in 2003' .....

She's listed as weighing less than Errani!?!?

You saw Errani. She's a twig. She's smaller than Henin. Pigs will fly before I believe Sharpaova weighed less than Errani does now at any time :confused:in the last eight years.

It's not 'adult muscles'. It's 'The Marketing Department' decreed that any number above 'x' would harm her income potential.

metamorpha
Sep 8th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Serena looks more effortless now than in her peak years, hmmm...

bobcat
Sep 8th, 2012, 04:41 AM
I don't think it's such a big deal. The same was said about Martina Navratilova and both she and Serena like how their opponents are/were intimidated by their physicality.

Motho
Sep 8th, 2012, 07:33 AM
I think the OP is alluding to the racism and sexism black female athletes experience in a white supremacist culture.

People may think it is a complement but it is also a backhanded racist and sexist comment.

The heavyweight comment is attempting to make Serena appear masculine and not feminine.

It is just like Cibulkova and Jankovic calling Stosur half a man because she can hit a big kick serve.

These racist commentators don't mention Serena's intelligence, or her strategy, or her out thinking her opponents on court.

It is offensive but not surprising the subtle racist bigotry Serena experiences because she's a black woman.

The Eurosport commentators call Serena a heavyweight because they are racist. If Serena was a white woman I doubt she would be called a heavyweight. Is Samantha Stosur a heavyweight she has bigger muscles than Serena? What about Mauresmo she's a pretty strong woman too.
-------------------------------------------------------------
People who have experienced racism, I am told, understand the code thereof. Race aside. Serena is a diligent student of the game and hence she has become such a genius. She modeled her serve after Sampras, the most effective and efficient servers of all times. For these other professional women, I still don't understand what's so difficult about getting the right toss for a serve. While they may need to continue to correct the toss, perhaps they should also consider developing some leg strength if they want to match Serena's serve. By the way, Taylor Townsend has a wicked versatile lefty serve.

smarties
Sep 8th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Well, if 'outdated' = 'less than Sharapova weighed in 2003' .....

She's listed as weighing less than Errani!?!?

You saw Errani. She's a twig. She's smaller than Henin. Pigs will fly before I believe Sharpaova weighed less than Errani does now at any time :confused:in the last eight years.

It's not 'adult muscles'. It's 'The Marketing Department' decreed that any number above 'x' would harm her income potential.

No she's not. Have you seen her arms and legs; she could break you like a twig :lol:

tennnisfannn
Sep 8th, 2012, 11:43 AM
We had the FO not too long ago and no one had an issue with Maria swatting Errani's serves away. We saw Lindsay vs Henin on so many occasions and the conversation did not go there.

GoofyDuck
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:16 PM
I think they referring to man like serving by Rena

Says a Hradecka fan

NoppaNoppa
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:19 PM
yet again i'm hearing commentators (eurosport) using the same old boxing analogy in referring to serena as a heavyweight and her opponent as light/middle etc

I agree with commentators. She has been the real Heavy of this sport for like 12 years. Like it or not. I don´t :lol:

skanky~skanketta
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:35 PM
Well whatever said and done, Rena is physically one of the most imposing players. Her physique is such - credit to her for getting it this way.

If there is any insinuation that her game is based on strength rather than skill, then that would be rather stupid of the person insinuating it because Serena is one of the most intelligent players on court.

ShiftyFella
Sep 8th, 2012, 04:39 PM
What's woman like serving?
serving with zero power? atm only Serena manages to serve consistently over 110mph and have control over the ball, Nadia is not what she used to be, Venus too old to play consistently, Pova and few others just blast it hoping it would go in

Yonexforever
Sep 8th, 2012, 07:34 PM
I cant wait for the post career book from Serena, and i hope she pulls NO PUNCHES since they liken her to a boxer!