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View Full Version : If the Williams Sisters weren't tennis players- who would've won their slams?


Joe.
Sep 6th, 2012, 06:56 PM
I saw a thread like this a couple of years ago but I can't find it and Serena has won another slam since then....

Slams they've won:

Serena:
Australian Open 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010
Roland Garros 2002
Wimbledon 2002, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2012
US Open 1999, 2002, 2008

Venus:
Wimbledon 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008
US Open 2000, 2001


Discuss.

Olórin
Sep 6th, 2012, 06:58 PM
Interesting topic. A favourite discussion among Williams Fans in the past was who would've won which slams if the other sister had never been. Thank goodness for both.

ce
Sep 6th, 2012, 06:59 PM
AO 2003 Henin
AO 2005 Davenport
AO 2007 Maria
AO 2009 Safina
AO 2010 Henin
FO 2002 Capriati
W 2002 Mauresmo
W 2003 Henin
... bored to do rest

GAGAlady
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:00 PM
I saw a thread like this a couple of years ago but I can't find it and Serena has won another slam since then....

Slams they've won:

Serena:
Australian Open 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010
Roland Garros 2002
Wimbledon 2002, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2012
US Open 1999, 2002, 2008

Venus:
Wimbledon 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008
US Open 2000, 2001


Discuss.

Jennifer CAPRIATI would have won the 2001 us open for sure, she also would of won the French in 2002

winone23
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:06 PM
Davenport would have won some of those slams.

miffedmax
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:12 PM
Lena D. would have won all of them. And the 2000 Olympics, too.

Miracle Worker
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Agnieszka Radwanska would win Wimbledon :haha:

Lucemferre
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:17 PM
1999 USO - Davenport
2000 Wimbledon - Davenport
2000 USO - Davenport
2001 Wimbledon - Davenport
2001 USO - Davenport
2002 RG - Capriati
2002 Wimbledon - Henin
2002 USO - Davenport
2003 AO - Henin
2003 Wimbledon - Henin
2005 AO - Sharapova
2005 Wimbledon - Sharapova
2007 AO - Vaidisova :devil:
2007 Wimbledon - Henin (No Venus no pressure)
2008 Wimbledon - Dementieva :hearts:
2008 USO - Jankovic
2009 AO - Dementieva
2009 Wimbledon - Dementieva
2010 AO - Henin
2010 Wimbledon - Kvitova
2012 Wimbledon - Kvitova

moby
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:18 PM
Justine would have won Wimbledon 2007.

Start da Game
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:25 PM
unimaginable, it would have been chaos......

NashaMasha
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:30 PM
Serena's titles

Australian Open2
2003 Henin
2005 Sharapova
2007 Sharapova
2009 Dementieva
2010 Henin

French Open
2002 Capriati

Wimbledon
2002 Mauresmo
2003 Davenport
2009 Dementieva
2010 Sharapova
2012 Kvitova

Us Open
1999 Davenport
2002 Davenport
2008 Safina

Venuses' titles
Wimbledon
2000 Davenport
2001 Davenport
2005 Sharapova
2007 Bartoli
2008 Zheng

Us Open
2000 Hingis
2001 Capriati


Total

Henin +2
Davenport +5
Sharapova +4
Dementieva +3
Capriati +2
Hingis, Mauresmo, Safina, Zheng, Bartoli, Kvitova +1

V.e.s.W
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:37 PM
If Navratilova was not a tennis player who would have won her slams :?

Joe.
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:10 PM
Justine would have won Wimbledon 2007.

She lost to Bartoli that year so no :lol:

Joe.
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:11 PM
IMO Kvitova would have 3 Wimbledon titles- '10,'11 and '12 :shrug:

Sombrerero loco
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:19 PM
legend, jesustine and lindsay in that order

Infiniti2001
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:22 PM
Lindsay would have won US open 2000,Wimbledon 2000 & 2005 for sure.

moby
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:34 PM
She lost to Bartoli that year so no :lol:She wouldn't have been mentally drained by the Serena match.

*Jool*
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:45 PM
Lindsay would have benefitted the most , Justine would have won Wimbledon(s) ...

eDonkey
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:50 PM
Total

Henin +2
Davenport +5
Sharapova +4
Dementieva +3
Capriati +2
Hingis, Mauresmo, Safina, Zheng, Bartoli, Kvitova +1

:lol:

Tennis would have been much different. If there were no Williams sisters, some tournaments in 90s would have changed its way and rankings and thus seeds could have been different.I believe there are players born in the late 80s and 90s (current top players) that have built their game after the Williams so that would have changed them, too. :shrug:

simonsaystennis
Sep 6th, 2012, 08:53 PM
My predictions:

1999-2002: Capriati, Hingis, Davenport
2003-2005: Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Sharapova
2007-2008: Sharapova, Jankovic, Dementieva
2009-present: Dementieva (Wimbledon '09) Henin (AO '10) Kvitova (Wimbledon '12)

Représailles
Sep 6th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Mary Pierce Wimbledon 2007 :)

justineheninfan
Sep 6th, 2012, 09:14 PM
1999 U.S Open- Davenport
2000 Wimbledon- Davenport
2000 U.S Open- Hingis
2001 Wimbledon- Davenport (Henin at this stage of her career couldnt handle this kind of firepower on a fast court)
2001 U.S Open- Davenport
2002 French Open- Capriati
2002 Wimbledon- Henin (Mauresmo mentally was definitely not up to winning a slam then)
2002 U.S Open- Davenport (read above, anyway Momo is Lindsay's bitch)
2003 Australian Open- Clijsters (why on earth are people picking Henin, Kim was easily beating Justine in late 02/early 03, and was also playing much better at this event)
2003 Wimbledon- Henin (ROTFL at people picking Lindsay here, she was crap in a big way in 2003, plus Henin and Clijsters both totally owned Lindsay from 2003 onwards minus a bit of Kim in mid 2005)
2005 Australian Open- Sharapova
2005 Wimbledon- Sharapova (Maria owns Lindsay)
2007 Australian Open- Vaidisova (Maria wasnt serving or playing that well here, neither was Clijsters, Petrova would choke if she made semis or finals just like she did vs Serena)
2007 Wimbledon- Henin
2008 Wimbledon- Dementieva
2008 U.S Open- Jankovic
2009 Australian- Kuznetsova (Safina shouldnt be anyones pick, Dementieva is 5-0 vs her on hard courts, and Kuznetsova and Azarenka can easily her on it too, plus her finals performance was mediocre at best)
2009 Wimbledon- Dementieva
2010 Australian- Henin
2010 Wimbledon- Na
2012 Wimbledon- Kvitova

a special one for:

2004 Wimbledon- Mauresmo, Sharapova was Mauresmo's bitch, I see Serena out of the way, Mauresmo taking this one, even with how well Maria played in the final. It was Mauresmo's weak mentality which cost her that semifinal with Serena, and her mental block with Serena, and the bad matchup in general. Maria could not cope with Mauresmo's whacky spins mixed with spots of agression and self destructed in their matches until the 06 U.S Open when Maria finally got a win, and Mauresmo would not have feared her in the least unlike a Williams.

So by my count:

Henin +4 including 3 Wimbledons
Davenport +6 including 2 Wimbledons, 4 U.S Opens
Hingis +1 1 U.S Open
Sharapova +1 Wimbledon, -1 Wimbledon, +1 Australian Open, overall +1 Australian Open
Clijsters +1 1 Australian Open
Vaidisova +1 1 Australian Open
Na +1 1 Australian Open
Dementieva +2 2 Wimbledons
Kuznetsova +1 1 Australian Open
Mauresmo +1 1 Wimbledon
Kvitova +1 1 Wimbledon
Jankovic +1 1 U.S Open

It is funny to think about it. Henin would actually be considered the best or second best grass courter of her era had the Williams not existed, and Dementieva would be considered one of the best grass courters of the era too, which is obviously hugely different than how things are now. Davenport could be close to a double digit slam winner or maybe even a double digit slam winner. The rest are only affected in tiny bits, dont see Hingis gaining much, she was Davenport's dog around the period the Williams started to impact her career, Davenport was the one damaging it more at that point with Venus also overtaking her just making things harder, and she fled before the Serena express really got rolling anyway. Kim isnt really impacted much. Neither is Mauresmo. Sharapova many will probably think was affected more than I did.

justineheninfan
Sep 6th, 2012, 09:21 PM
She lost to Bartoli that year so no :lol:

Who knows how the draw would have played out. 2007 version of Henin beats Bartoli on any surface 99 times out of 100 so had they played any other day or round Bartoli loses. Anyway without the psychological stress of having to beat Serena, then looking ahead to Venus on grass I highly doubt she loses to Bartoli even on that day. I dont believe the tank theories, I think she legitimately choked, got overly relaxed as well, and fell apart and Bartoli capatilized by playing the match of her life to win, but I also dont see her winning if anything remotedly changes.

LindsayRulz
Sep 6th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Lindsay would have won so many slams if it wasn't of the Williams sisters. :sobbing:


And I can't with people saying Sharapova would've won the 2005 Wimbledon title. Lindsay had just beaten her 0 and 0 and she was in the zone at that even beating Clijsters, Kuznetsova and Mauresmo. Besides, we might have had a Davenport-Pierce final if it wasn't of the WS.

bushido brown
Sep 6th, 2012, 09:44 PM
this thread just reminded me of the butterfly effect

Gangstress
Sep 6th, 2012, 10:01 PM
Australian Open
2003 Kim Clijsters
2005 Maria Sharapova
2007 Maria Sharapova
2009 Svetlana Kuznetsova
2010 Justine Henin

Clijsters was owning Henin and gave Serena a huge scare, I reckon she would have got her shit together. Sharapova owns Lindsay, Vaidisova would have been nervous, Kuznetsova would have probably been a set and a break down against Elena and Dinara with both of them completely falling apart and no one else came close in 2010.

French Open
2002 Jennifer Capriati

Clarissa Fernandez with a slam :spit:

Wimbledon
2000 Lindsay Davenport
2001 Lindsay Davenport
2002 Justine Henin
2003 Justine Henin
2005 Maria Sharapova
2007 Justine Henin
2008 Elena Dementieva
2009 Elena Dementieva
2010 Maria Sharapova
2012 Petra Kvitova

Davenport was by far the third best player on grass in the early 2000's, Mauresmo was far too fragile, Henin was starting to own Clijsters in big moments/taking momentum from her FO win, Maria owns Lindsay, Henin wouldn't have had to face Serena and in a parallel univerise 98% of the time would have thrashed Bartoli, honestly no one in 2008 but Elena would have got her shit together/there is no way Safina would have ever won Wimbledon, Maria played the best she had for years in the 4r against Serena and had a pretty easy draw, Petra is the 2nd strongest player on grass nowadays.


Us Open
1999 Lindsay Davenport
2000 Lindsay Davenport
2001 Lindsay Davenport
2002 Lindsay Davenport
2008 Jelena Jankovic

Lindsay owned Hingis/Capriati and no one else really had a chance. Jelena played fantastically in the final and Safina would have been nervous.

Davenport +6 :eek:
Sharapova +4
Henin +4
Dementieva +2
Jankovic +1
Kvitova +1
Capriati +1
Clijsters +1
Kuznetsova +1

*JR*
Sep 7th, 2012, 02:25 AM
Lena D. would have won all of them. And the 2000 Olympics, too.

As Lena would still be retired, obviously JoLa would have won Wimbly this year. :p

Sonf@
Sep 7th, 2012, 02:37 AM
Serena:
AO 2003 (Clijsters), 2005 (Sharapova), 2007 (Sharapova), 2009 (Safina), 2010 (Henin)
FO 2002 (Seles)
Wimbledon 2002 (Henin), 2003 (Davenport), 2009 (Dementieva :bigcry: ), 2010 (Kvitova), 2012 (Azarenka)
US Open 1999 (Davenport), 2002 (Davenport), 2008 (Jankovic)

Venus:
Wimbledon 2000 (Hingis, who played a really nice match against Venus in the quarters, superior to what Davenport managed in the final), 2001 (Davenport), 2005 (Davenport), 2007 (Henin), 2008 (omg, no one? I'd say Dementieva or maybe Mauresmo making a final effort)
US Open 2000 (Hingis), 2001 (Capriati)

Davenport +5
Henin +3
Hingis +2
Dementieva +2
Sharapova +2
Capriati, Clijsters, Kvitova, Seles, Jankovic, Azarenka and Safina +1

dencod16
Sep 7th, 2012, 04:51 AM
If Graf wasn't a tennis player who would have won her slams, this a stupid thread TBH.

mdterp01
Sep 7th, 2012, 04:55 AM
She lost to Bartoli that year so no :lol:

:rolls:

mdterp01
Sep 7th, 2012, 04:56 AM
If Graf wasn't a tennis player who would have won her slams, this a stupid thread TBH.

But u sure took the time to come in and even more time to post didn't u? :wavey:

Julian.
Sep 7th, 2012, 05:03 AM
There is actually no way we can tell because of the whole butterfly effects. Everything will change, the draw, the ranking, it will even affect all the other slams not won by them.

shoryuken
Sep 7th, 2012, 05:49 AM
It seems Davenport suffered the most :lol:

mistymore
Sep 7th, 2012, 06:02 AM
Davenport and Henin would be considered greater than Seles, Connolly, and possibly King and Lenglen, if the Williams sisters didnt exist. Amazing.

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2012, 06:34 AM
It seems Davenport suffered the most :lol:


She sure did----I remember everyone had all but handed her the trophy at Wimbledon 2000 ... The way Venus especially turned the tables on her after all the beatings when she first came on the tour was amazing...

Yashal
Sep 7th, 2012, 08:25 AM
Uhm, some were really hard to say

1999 USO Davenport
2002 FO Seles
2002 W Mauresmo
2002 USO Davenport
2003 AO Henin
2003 W Davenport
2005 AO Davenport
2007 AO Sharapova
2008 USO Jankovic :lol:
2009 AO Dementieva
2009 W Dementieva
2010 AO Henin or maybe Azarenka
2010 W Kvitova
2012 W Azarenka or Kvitova


2000 W Davenport
2000 USO Davenport
2001 W Davenport
2001 USO Capriati
2005 W Davenport
2007 W maybe Sharapova
2008 W Dementieva maybe

duhcity
Sep 7th, 2012, 08:32 AM
lol sorry I love Dinara, but her and Elena would have collapsed in finals against anyone if they had a semblance of a chance, not even if Serena or Venus played in the finals.

My beloved Jelena even - yes she played well, but would you be shocked if she choked set points against say...Dinara in a final? You'd hope Dinara would have gotten better in 08 after the French, but then we saw how she played in 2009.....who would've won if it was Dinara vs. Jelena in 08?

alex.2812
Sep 7th, 2012, 08:53 AM
Australian Open:
- 2003: Kim Clijsters
- 2005: Maria Sharapova
- 2007: Maria Sharapova
- 2009: Elena Dementieva
- 2010: Justine Henin

French Open:
- 2002: Jennifer Capriati

Wimbledon:
- 2000: Lindsay Davenport
- 2001: Lindsay Davenport
- 2002: Justine Henin
- 2003: Lindsay Davenport
- 2005: Lindsay Davenport
- 2007: Justine Henin
- 2008: Elena Dementieva
- 2009: Elena Dementieva
- 2010: Vera Zvonareva
- 2012: Victoria Azarenka

US Open:
- 1999: Martina Hingis
- 2000: Martina Hingis
- 2001: Kim Clijsters
- 2002: Lindsay Davenport
- 2008: Jelena Jankovic

Olympic Games:
- 2000: Monica Seles
- 2012: Maria Sharapova

The Witch-king
Sep 7th, 2012, 08:53 AM
The question is would tennis exist?

Mateo Mathieu
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Davenport :sobbing:

pov
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:51 PM
:eek: :lol: I guess it's fun to do this kind of stuff but it's almost impossible to say.


- The whole draw of each major would have been different so we don't know who would have been playing who.

- Power tennis might have stayed at the level Seles brought it to so many playing styles would be different.

- ??

pov
Sep 8th, 2012, 12:52 PM
But u sure took the time to come in and even more time to post didn't u? :wavey:
Me too. ;)

Svetlana)))
Sep 8th, 2012, 01:23 PM
this thread just reminded me of the butterfly effect

Right? Was just thinking about that.

machinist
Oct 7th, 2012, 08:13 PM
Dinara and Jelena would both be Slam winners. It would be so well-deserved, I wish it was true.

Grigorpova
Oct 8th, 2012, 07:46 AM
Dementieva would have so many slams :sobbing:

KournikovaFan91
Oct 8th, 2012, 03:02 PM
Dementieva would have so many slams :sobbing:

Yeah I feel Dementieva would have a slam too. :sad:

Adi1987
Oct 8th, 2012, 04:49 PM
99 us open - davenport
00 wimbledon - hingis
00 us open - davenport
01 wimbledon - davenport
01 us open - capriati
02 french open - capriati
02 wimbledon - mauresmo
02 us open - mauresmo
03 australian open - henin
03 wimbledon - henin
05 australian open - sharapova
05 wimbledon - davenport
07 australian open - vaidasova
07 wimbledon - sharapova
08 wimbledon - dementieva
08 us open - jankovic
09 australian open - dementieva
09 wimbledon - dementieva
10 australian open - henin
10 wimbledon - kvitova
12 wimbledon - kvitova
12 us open - azarenka

Londoner
Oct 8th, 2012, 04:52 PM
Dementieva would have so many slams :sobbing:

Nah, she would have lost to some lucky scrub who got to a final. She just didn't have it in her to close out the really biggest matches.

Londoner
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:00 PM
If Graf wasn't a tennis player who would have won her slams, this a stupid thread TBH.

:lol: It is actually one of those questions that no one can answer. Like the one that gets raised every now and then about if Seles hadn't been stabbed. Here's some more:

If Evert hadn't been in love with Lloyd, would she have won more Wimbledons?

If Lenglen hadn't been a boozer would she have won more slams?

If Henin/Clijsters hadn't retired first time round....

If Ethel Forbush from 23. Acacia Avenue, Brighton, had taken up tennis and gone pro in 1976 instead of working on the sweet counter at Woolworths and marrying the local plumber Bert Peewhistle, would she have won a slam?

Sammo
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:01 PM
LaKeisha

Martian Jeza
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Those who lost the finals, those who lost the semis, those who lost the quarters, those who lost the 4th round, those who lost the 3rd round, those who lost the 2nd round or even those who lost the 1st round against them :shrug:

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:57 PM
1999 U.S Open- Davenport
2000 Wimbledon- Davenport
2000 U.S Open- Hingis
2001 Wimbledon- Henin
2001 U.S Open- Davenport
2002 French- Capriati
2002 Wimbledon- Henin
2002 U.S Open- Davenport
2003 Australian Open- Henin
2003 Wimbledon- Henin
2005 Australian Open- Sharapova
2005 Wimbledon- Sharapova
2007 Australian Open- Sharapova
2007 Wimbledon- Henin
2008 Wimbledon- random (Dementieva chokes in final)
2008 U.S Open- Jankovic
2009 Australian Open- Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon- random (Dementieva chokes in final)
2010 Australian Open- Henin
2010 Wimbledon- Na
2012 Wimbledon- Kvitova
2012 U.S Open- Azarenka

So new slam counts would be:

Henin- 3 Australian Opens, 4 French Opens, 4 Wimbledons, 2 U.S Open. 13 slams
Davenport- 1 Australian Open, 2 Wimbledons, 4 U.S Opens. 7 slams
Sharapova- 3 Australian Opens, 1 French Open, 2 Wimbledons, 1 U.S Open. 7 slams
Hingis- 3 Australian Open, 0 French Opens, 1 Wimbledon, 2 U.S Opens. 6 slams

then a bunch of random players gaining 1 slam or 1 extra slam, and 2 random scrubs gaining the 2 slams Dementieva seems the only plausible choice, except that Dementieva is incapable of winning a slam final vs any opponent.

SerenaSlam
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:35 PM
Hmm I really believe hingis and davenport would have pulled out the majority of these. Starting in 99 the sisters were showing up. In 99 they knocked both of them out of the usopen and Then you have 00-02 to follow with the other slams. I also think the sisters are the reason for the level of play physically. If they weren't in the picture I think hingis would have went a little longer and maybe would about 5 more slams.

SerenaSlam
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:38 PM
I'm noticing Henin being mentioned a lot. I really do not think she would have been a factor. She has made it clear that Venus and Serena were her reason to adding more of the power to her game. With them say gone I still think hingis davenport and capriati would have best her based off her small stature and slight power then.

iWill
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:50 PM
Its interesting to look at but I agree this is hard to say because for instance, I would argue that 2004 Wimbledon would have saw Mauresmo win the title over Sharapova in the final even though a WS didn't actually take that title. Same scenario in Wimbledon 2007. Had there been no Serena Williams, Henin probably would not have lost to Bartoli in the SF.

Davenport and Capriati would have benefited the most from their absence. Davenport especially would have 3+ slams more just from not having to face Venus Williams in a slam final. Linsay and Jennifer were the premier American players in tennis at the rise of Venus and Serena and I think part of Venus and Serena's motivation was to be the BEST American players. This developed a rivalry between the 4 players and also pushed them to hone their games even more than they were already doing.

Henin and Clijsters would have benefited as well BUT. I honestly don't believe they would have elevated their physical play in the way that they did which would have possibly prevented their early retirements. We could be talking about Justine being the greatest player of the generation with 11+ slams.

Lastly Hingis, she definitely would have won USO 99. However her slam count would likely only include 1 other slam after that. Venus and Serena are partly responsible for her early retirement but power players were all finally figuring out how to beat her and it was only a matter of time for her to adjust her game or move on, and we all know what she decided.

edificio
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:51 PM
Other people.

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:52 PM
I'm noticing Henin being mentioned a lot. I really do not think she would have been a factor. She has made it clear that Venus and Serena were her reason to adding more of the power to her game. With them say gone I still think hingis davenport and capriati would have best her based off her small stature and slight power then.

Hingis is the same size as Henin, Henin back in 2001 was already hitting harder than her, and Hingis was retired before Henin won her first slam. Henin owned Capriati since day 1, even beating her at Wimbledon in 2001 in Capriati's best year when Henin was a nobody. Davenport peaked early and failed to win another slam even when the Williams dominant days were gone for a period, and Henin owned her most of their careers anyway.

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:54 PM
Lastly Hingis, she definitely would have won USO 99.

Definitely not. She was Davenport's little bitch in 1999. Maybe about 5% of winning a Davenport-Hingis final sans Williams that year. She would have had a better shot in 2000.

SerenaSlam
Oct 8th, 2012, 06:57 PM
Hingis is the same size as Henin, Henin back in 2001 was already hitting harder than her, and Hingis was retired before Henin won her first slam. Henin owned Capriati since day 1, even beating her at Wimbledon in 2001 in Capriati's best year when Henin was a nobody. Davenport peaked early and failed to win another slam even when the Williams dominant days were gone for a period, and Henin owned her most of their careers anyway.

I guess the point I am making is, if the Williams sisters were gone what would be the level or prominent style of play? Would hingis still have ended up overshadowed by a new game style? Or would her game and davenport a game been able to sustain longer?

hingisGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 07:00 PM
1999 USO - Hingis, she was in fantastic form and really should have won the final against Serena (blew set points).
2000 Wimbledon - Davenport, no question
2000 USO - Hingis, her form wasn't as good aas 1999 but she had Lindsay's number after turning the rivalry around in Miami, also Lindsay played a freaking horrible match in the final.
2001 Wimbledon - I don't know but definitely not Lindsay. At this point she was beginning to lose any and all big matches she ever played. In fact Davenport might have the greatest number of chokes in the Open era, I believe she would have found a way to lose to Henin. But then again Henin was a huge choke artist as well. This one is really tough to say, maybe a fluke Slam winner would have made their way through the draw.
2001 USO - Another tough one. Capriati was playing like shit. So was Hingis, so was Lindsay. The final would have likely been Hingis vs. Jen. Jen really would not deserve this SLam, she only hit like 5 winners in her semifinal match, she was just dreadful. But Hingis played some of her career-worst matches against Capriati earlier that year, so I assume she would have found a way to lose no matter how bad Jen played.
2002 RG - Seles. In a Seles vs. Jen final, Monica would have the advantage. It's weird to even suggest Capriati as a contender for these Slams because the girl could barely even win a tour-level event.
2002 Wimbledon - Another shitty Slam. Hantuchova and Likhosteva as quarterfinalists? What? Henin and Mauresmo were HUGE chokers. I think another surprise winner, so whoever was the best player Venus & Serena beat in R16 or R32 or something.
2002 USO - Once again a field of choke artists. Lindsay was choking in regular events at this point. Chokomomo was in great form but still not Slam-winning material. I'd say Chanda Rubin would win this event before those two.
2003 AO - Clijsters would have had her break-through, even though she was a mental midget her level of play was so much better than the rest of the field.
2003 Wimbledon - Even though Henin was very average on grass and rightfully never won Wimbledon, this title would be hers, because the level of the rest of the field was terrible that year.
2005 AO - Mauresmo would have slaughtered Sharapova, setting up a Lindsay/Momo final. Oh man, I have no clue who would have found a way to choke that match.
2005 Wimbledon - Mary Pierce, she was in better form than Sharapova and I absolutely believe that Lindsay would have choked no matter who she was playing.
2007 AO - What a weak Slam this was. How the hell did Maria even make the final playing such bad tennis. I can't believe I'm saying this but Vaidasova or however you spell that girl's name was clearly the next best player after Serena in this tournament.
2007 Wimbledon - Damn yet another weak-ass Slam. An Ivanovic v. Bartoli final LOL. Who freaking cares, this would be regarded as a fluke Slam either way.
2008 Wimbledon - This thread makes me realize what a weak grass-era the past decade has been. It's the Williamses and a bunch of clowns. I will not type any player's name because they were all garbage. Fluke winner.
2008 USO - I guess Jankovic gets her only Slam.
2009 AO - Another shitty field. Dementieva gets her moment.
2009 Wimbledon - OMG Steffi Dementieva would be the dominant player in the WTA, holding 2 Slams and a Gold Medal. I've never appreciated the Williams sisters this much :sobbing:
2010 AO - Another Slam with a really weak-ass field. Li Na breaks through a year early.
2010 Wimbledon - I guess Kvitova?
2012 Wimbledon - I think Radwanska breaks through here, her form was certainly the best, as sad as that is.
2012 US Open - Azarenka, no one else was even a slight competitor here.

Doing this has made me realize a few things:

--even though the sisters have had some very lucky breaks in Slams with chokes and their rivals retiring/not playing, the fact is that the rest of the field was usually not Slam-material period.
--the early years was easier to pick because the draws were better. As the list goes on, you really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel. The WTA is such a joke compared to the late 90s/early 2000s.
--Wimbledon was by far the hardest Slam to pick. A bunch of HORRIBLE grass players, or decent grass players who choke everything away no matter what.

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 09:25 PM
1999 USO - Hingis, she was in fantastic form and really should have won the final against Serena (blew set points).
2000 Wimbledon - Davenport, no question
2000 USO - Hingis, her form wasn't as good aas 1999 but she had Lindsay's number after turning the rivalry around in Miami, also Lindsay played a freaking horrible match in the final.
2001 Wimbledon - I don't know but definitely not Lindsay. At this point she was beginning to lose any and all big matches she ever played. In fact Davenport might have the greatest number of chokes in the Open era, I believe she would have found a way to lose to Henin. But then again Henin was a huge choke artist as well. This one is really tough to say, maybe a fluke Slam winner would have made their way through the draw.
2001 USO - Another tough one. Capriati was playing like shit. So was Hingis, so was Lindsay. The final would have likely been Hingis vs. Jen. Jen really would not deserve this SLam, she only hit like 5 winners in her semifinal match, she was just dreadful. But Hingis played some of her career-worst matches against Capriati earlier that year, so I assume she would have found a way to lose no matter how bad Jen played.
2002 RG - Seles. In a Seles vs. Jen final, Monica would have the advantage. It's weird to even suggest Capriati as a contender for these Slams because the girl could barely even win a tour-level event.
2002 Wimbledon - Another shitty Slam. Hantuchova and Likhosteva as quarterfinalists? What? Henin and Mauresmo were HUGE chokers. I think another surprise winner, so whoever was the best player Venus & Serena beat in R16 or R32 or something.
2002 USO - Once again a field of choke artists. Lindsay was choking in regular events at this point. Chokomomo was in great form but still not Slam-winning material. I'd say Chanda Rubin would win this event before those two.
2003 AO - Clijsters would have had her break-through, even though she was a mental midget her level of play was so much better than the rest of the field.
2003 Wimbledon - Even though Henin was very average on grass and rightfully never won Wimbledon, this title would be hers, because the level of the rest of the field was terrible that year.
2005 AO - Mauresmo would have slaughtered Sharapova, setting up a Lindsay/Momo final. Oh man, I have no clue who would have found a way to choke that match.
2005 Wimbledon - Mary Pierce, she was in better form than Sharapova and I absolutely believe that Lindsay would have choked no matter who she was playing.
2007 AO - What a weak Slam this was. How the hell did Maria even make the final playing such bad tennis. I can't believe I'm saying this but Vaidasova or however you spell that girl's name was clearly the next best player after Serena in this tournament.
2007 Wimbledon - Damn yet another weak-ass Slam. An Ivanovic v. Bartoli final LOL. Who freaking cares, this would be regarded as a fluke Slam either way.
2008 Wimbledon - This thread makes me realize what a weak grass-era the past decade has been. It's the Williamses and a bunch of clowns. I will not type any player's name because they were all garbage. Fluke winner.
2008 USO - I guess Jankovic gets her only Slam.
2009 AO - Another shitty field. Dementieva gets her moment.
2009 Wimbledon - OMG Steffi Dementieva would be the dominant player in the WTA, holding 2 Slams and a Gold Medal. I've never appreciated the Williams sisters this much :sobbing:
2010 AO - Another Slam with a really weak-ass field. Li Na breaks through a year early.
2010 Wimbledon - I guess Kvitova?
2012 Wimbledon - I think Radwanska breaks through here, her form was certainly the best, as sad as that is.
2012 US Open - Azarenka, no one else was even a slight competitor here.

Doing this has made me realize a few things:

--even though the sisters have had some very lucky breaks in Slams with chokes and their rivals retiring/not playing, the fact is that the rest of the field was usually not Slam-material period.
--the early years was easier to pick because the draws were better. As the list goes on, you really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel. The WTA is such a joke compared to the late 90s/early 2000s.
--Wimbledon was by far the hardest Slam to pick. A bunch of HORRIBLE grass players, or decent grass players who choke everything away no matter what.


Yeah womens tennis would have been so weak without the Williams sisters. I know we had some different choices, but both are ours illustrate just how weak it would have been. The fact I even somehow came up with grass court mug Henin winning 4 Wimbledons without the Williams, whether I am right or not just the idea it is possible to contemplating that, just show what a mug grass court field their era was. :tape: The clay era since 2001 is pathetic, Henin alone kept it in respectability for awhile the same way the Williams alone did on grass, then she left and kabam we see how scary bad it truly has become. The hard courts probably has the best fields of the last 10 years, but even then take away the Williams and you have freaking Dementieva dominating hard court majors for a whole year or more, blech.

The last golden age of the womens game was 1998-2003, especialy 1998-2000. It has been all downhill since, even Serena in 02/03 didnt face such great competition in winning her Serena Slam but a heck of alot better than the years since atleast.

moby
Oct 8th, 2012, 09:58 PM
How is Henin a grasscourt mug? She's easily the best grasscourt player not to have won a grasscourt slam, and better than quite a few who have.

I'd put her on the same level as Mauresmo, who was steadier over the course of a match on the surface, but had fewer brilliant moments.

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 11:02 PM
How is Henin a grasscourt mug? She's easily the best grasscourt player not to have won a grasscourt slam, and better than quite a few who have.

I'd put her on the same level as Mauresmo, who was steadier over the course of a match on the surface, but had fewer brilliant moments.

I agree Henin and Mauresmo are about the same level on grass, but Mauresmo also wouldnt have won Wimbledon in another era. Neither would have Sharapova. Kvitova wouldnt have as early as she has with her either, maybe a later version if she improves. The only grass courters of the last 10 years who would win Wimbledon in another era are Venus and Serena, and "maybe" Davenport, the 99-2001 version only which technically isnt even the last 10 years.

Henin is not the best grass courter to not win Wimbledon. Mandilikova, Seles, and possibly Sabatini are all better. I would say Sanchez too based on her 95-96 performances, and her historic final with Graf in 1995. Casals arguably had a better grass court game and never came close to winning Wimbledon in her era, possibly Wendy Turnbull and Pam Shriver too. Overall Henin is better than all those players except for Seles, but on grass she is probably weaker than all of them. At Wimbledon in her prime she took horrible losses to people like something Danilipoo the mammoth greek elephant girl and to Marion Bartoli, and she couldnt even win a Wimbledon in the weak post Williams prime period of 2004 onwards. The fact I have her winning 4 Wimbledons had the Williams not existed, whether I am right or not just that one could conceivably even think of that happening, is enough to make one shudder at the grass field without the Williams.

SelesGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Henin and Mauresmo were HUGE chokers. I think another surprise winner, so whoever was the best player Venus & Serena beat in R16 or R32 or something. HingisGOAT, I believe that player was Rubin who Serena beat in the round of 16, Rubin had just won Eastborne and was playing some of her best tennis since early 1996 but was just overpowered by Serena, so maybe Rubin winning Wimbledon that year over a choking Mauresmo or Henin the final in that case. Seles who lost to a non choking Henin in the quarters might have had a shot too, especialy playing mentally weak Mauresmo or Henin in the final if they both ended up in the other half.

hingisGOAT
Oct 8th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Yes Rubin had a nice resurgence that year and was probably a bit unlucky to play V&S at both Wimbledon and the US Open. The rest of the field was VERY beatable for her, in fact wasn't that the year she gave Henin a complete and total bitch-slap at Miami?

Also Henin is OK on grass but not this amazing grass-courter who was only held down by the Williams sisters. I think Mauresmo was better on grass mostly because she had a better high-percentage slice first serve. It allowed her to serve-and-volley, whereas Henin's serve was kind of one-dimensional and low-percentage. It did her no favors on the surface.

Then her groundstrokes, Henin had rather big swings and could be rushed by powerful flat-hitters. She mis-hit a lot of shots because of this, especially that topspin-heavy forehand was not ideal for grass at all.

Her slice backhand was very pedestrian for a one-hander too, it never had any bite to it, just a floaty defensive shot. Much more effective on clay than on grass.

Basically Justine was obviously one of the best players of her era and was always going to be a contender, but her game had a lot of weaknesses on grass that could be attacked.

danieln1
Oct 9th, 2012, 03:20 AM
1999 USO - Davenport
2000 Wimbledon - Davenport
2000 USO - Davenport
2001 Wimbledon - Davenport
2001 USO - Davenport
2002 RG - Capriati
2002 Wimbledon - Henin
2002 USO - Davenport
2003 AO - Henin
2003 Wimbledon - Henin
2005 AO - Sharapova
2005 Wimbledon - Sharapova
2007 AO - Vaidisova :devil:
2007 Wimbledon - Henin (No Venus no pressure)
2008 Wimbledon - Dementieva :hearts:
2008 USO - Jankovic
2009 AO - Dementieva
2009 Wimbledon - Dementieva
2010 AO - Henin
2010 Wimbledon - Kvitova
2012 Wimbledon - Kvitova

Davenport would be a 9 time slam champ :inlove:

And Kvitova a three time Wimb champ :bowdown:

Also Jankovic ans Dementieva slam.champs.... that would be the perfect world actually.

Alizé Molik
Oct 9th, 2012, 03:21 AM
The biggest difference I think is that Henin and Hingis would have played a lot longer because they both would have been winning slams regularly.

Stonerpova
Oct 9th, 2012, 03:24 AM
Davenport woulda been close to double digits.
Maria would have another Australian or two and another Wimbledon.
Capriati would have won a US Open most likely.
Henin would probably have won a Wimbledon.
Dementieva and Safina would probably be slam winners.

These topics are fun, but they only reiterate what a shit show women's tennis would have been without the Williams sisters the last 15 years.

Jajaloo
Oct 9th, 2012, 04:36 AM
1999
2007 AO - Vaidisova :devil:
2008 USO - Jankovic
2009 Wimbledon - Dementieva
2012 Wimbledon - Kvitova

:hearts::hearts:

But Peak Radwanska would've beaten Kvitova in the 2012 Wimbledon final :oh:

lbristol
Oct 9th, 2012, 09:36 AM
thanks for the good read

Dexter
Oct 9th, 2012, 10:11 AM
You just know the off-season is fast approaching... :facepalm:

sfan
Oct 9th, 2012, 01:51 PM
If the Williams Sisters weren't tennis players- tennis would be a much fair, just, classy and respected sport.

Lucemferre
Oct 13th, 2012, 01:38 AM
2012 USO - Azarenka

Passierschlag
Oct 23rd, 2012, 06:37 PM
interesting thread