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View Full Version : Does Sharapova marketing machine pay bonuses to announcers?


Marty-Dom
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:09 AM
I'm at a loss of words. Every single announcer on the Tennis Channel is praising Maria whether she plays well or not. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. Navratilova is all up Sharapova's ass, to the point where she could report on what Maria had for lunch, praising her gutsy serving, right before a double fault, then she skips the commentary all together until the next point. It's comical. The only explanation I can see is that Maria's management or public relations pays for positive commentary. I just can't see that a knowledgeable commentator such as Navratilova or Davenport would withhold legitimate criticism, unless they were paid to do so.

iGOAT
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM
I don't get it either :help:. Ted Robinson is the worst :sobbing:.

RenaSlam.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM
That's how it's been since Wimbledon 2004. Don't even get me started with Dick Enberg, he's on her vag like there's no tomorrow.

Tennis Fool
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:12 AM
Yes, another grand for every mention of "And she won Wimbledon at 17!"

JeMa
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:12 AM
Because everyone loves Maria Sharapova :dance:

atominside
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:12 AM
Navratilova doesnt like sharapova :shrug:

Serenita
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:12 AM
I'm at a loss of words. Every single announcer on the Tennis Channel is praising Maria whether she plays well or not. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. Navratilova is all up Sharapova's ass, to the point where she could report on what Maria had for lunch, praising her gutsy serving, right before a double fault, then she skips the commentary all together until the next point. It's comical. The only explanation I can see is that Maria's management or public relations pays for positive commentary. I just can't see that a knowledgeable commentator such as Navratilova or Davenport would withhold legitimate criticism, unless they were paid to do so.
US commentators?

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:13 AM
if it's true, Chris Evert is working too good for that money ))))

TF , are you serious? Lindsay Davenpoport and Navratilova being payed for nice comments is not even delusional, it's a complete and utter bullshit

Julian.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:19 AM
Haters gonna hate lol
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ouauY43E1qieq1ao1_500.gif

hingisGOAT
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:21 AM
It's funny, I don't think there's ever been a bigger gulf between the commentators and the fans. The crowd never roots for Sharapova, tennis fans generally think she is an unlikeable, boring, robotic cheating twat. But commentators are all about Maria!

Honestly though commentators get paid to promote the sport, the higher the ratings the more they get paid, the more they talk up their manly ass glamazon girl, the more people they hope will watch. :tape:

BTW even Chanda Rubin and her male co-commentator on USO Live were up her ass. :tape:

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:22 AM
The crowd never roots for Sharapova, tennis fans generally think she is an unlikeable, boring, robotic cheating twat. But commentators are all about Maria!
really? were you watching the match today?

hingisGOAT
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:23 AM
really? were you watching the match today?

You are DELUDED if you think Maria had more crowd support than Petrova.


Which is sad b/c Petrova is the least popular and least famous player in the top 20 :lol:

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:26 AM
I'm pretty sure this HingisGOAT person has been eating lead paint chips.

A player that has won the career slam with a non-diverse game and limited athleticism almost solely because she can mentally beat almost anyone but Serena is respected by former players?

Shocking!

Oh, and yeah, the fans sure hate her. :facepalm:

NashaP
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:28 AM
Why cant people just accept the fact that people like Maria, her game and her persona. She is a good ambassador for the sport. She doesn't threaten line judges.

bobbynorwich
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:30 AM
I'm at a loss of words. Every single announcer on the Tennis Channel is praising Maria whether she plays well or not. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. .

Same thing with Serena, Mardy, Kim, Roger, Rafa, Caroline or other media darlings. Certain people capture the media's favor, that's all.

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:30 AM
You are DELUDED if you think Maria had more crowd support than Petrova.


Which is sad b/c Petrova is the least popular and least famous player in the top 20

Masha has a great support coming from the crowd, but you might have not noticed it because you were crying. Crying because your fave will never win Career Slam and will never win French Open....

In The Zone
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:30 AM
I think our Ted Robinson Wimbledon at 17 thread has worked. Tennis Channel won't put him on her matches. :)

atominside
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:31 AM
The crowd was definitely on maria's side :lol: The US fans have adopted maria as their own. Hingisgoat seems to have followed his fave and snorted some coke.

perseus2006
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:31 AM
It is interesting how ALL the commentators praise Pova's combativness, intensity, grit, game and so on. And, of course, everyone of these scatterbrained know nothings are so wrong. How can you trust such tennis idiots like Navratilova, Davenport, Virginia, MJF, Tracy, etc.?

All Pova did was give each of them a bag of Sugarpova Cheeky!

Mistress of Evil
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:35 AM
Its the Siberian Supremacy and you will deal!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9e3oyxDd91rqqr40o6_250.gif

Everyone must hail the Queen, the one who won Wimbledon at 17!!!1111 All the people are in Maria's hands, they are here pimp as the great Foxy once said. Sharapova is the biggest Illuminati ever making people buy her candy & get fat.

dany.p
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:36 AM
She's won grandslams, she' s consistently been near the top, she shows her personality offcourt, she a tennis superstar, and she's hot. Is it that surprising that she's popular? it's really not that complicated. and the crowd was pro Petrova because she was the underdog, and they wanted to see a good match. There not shelling out good money to watch a straight set drubbing. They want bang for there buck.

hingisGOAT
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM
Masha has a great support coming from the crowd, but you might have not noticed it because you were crying. Crying because your fave will never win Career Slam and will never win French Open....

Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

atominside
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:38 AM
Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

You need help.

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:39 AM
she won grandslams, she' s consistently been near the top, she a tennis superstar, and she' hot. is it really that surprising that she is popular? it is really not that complicated. and the crowd was pro Petrova because she was the underdog, and the crowd wanted to see a good match.

Exactly. The crowd was pro-Nadia until they thought there was a real chance that Maria might lose. Then it switched. It's not like Petrova is some up-and-comer that the tennis world would be fascinated to see move on. She's a career choke-job that would just get rolled over the next round. The crowd just wanted the match to be more interesting than 6-1 6-2.

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:40 AM
Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

Yeah, you sound like an adult.

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:45 AM
Were the announcers kissing ass? Yes. Without question. and yes Navratilova was waaaaaaaay up Maria's ass.

But you must take into consideration the crowd. they too were all over Maria. whether we like it or not, we have to understand that the Maria Sharapova engine drives much of the tennis commentators salaries.

She's hugely popular with the fans. that makes her hugely popular with the sponsors. that makes her hugely popular with those that derive their paycheck directly or indirectly from the sponsors. Tennis commentators have always felt like the game needs a face to drive the popularity of the game and thereby create a good deal of job security for themselves. Maria Sharapova is that face - that personality.

...That's just the way it is, whether we like it or not.

faboozadoo15
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:46 AM
People bitch when the commentators are negative, and they bitch when thery're too positive too.

Is it really so bad that commentators admire her work ethic and fight?

hingisGOAT
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:50 AM
Yeah, you sound like an adult.

A 10-second glimpse through your post history and I see you saying that you literally HATE a player, along with discussions about armpit hair and herpes. Pot, kettle, black. :wavey: I'd pick your battles a little more wisely, I'm definitely not the one you want to go there with

jameshazza
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:54 AM
I've seen HingisGOAT on here before and they didn't seem that unreasonable. Definitely something illicit in their system.

ACEof DIAMONDS
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:55 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3qcqlkXa51qj47y6.gif

nelsondan
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:57 AM
Sometimes, I am sort of glad that she does not have huge breasts. It seems enough that she is good enough in business to earn close to thirty million a year, she speaks two languages well, and probably some others, her legs look nice, and her abs are in close to perfect shape. She dresses nicely, and sometimes her hair looks really good. She is a big girl, and has, in my opinion, just the right size rear end. She has won all four grand slams. She wins a lot of tennis matches. If her breasts were huge, that might cause some people to have some sort of envy of her.

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:57 AM
Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

:haha:

atominside
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:58 AM
maybe he/she/it's sleep deprived :shrug:

ACEof DIAMONDS
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:59 AM
Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/072/864/YankMad.gif

bobbynorwich
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:59 AM
Exactly. The crowd was pro-Nadia until they thought there was a real chance that Maria might lose. Then it switched. It's not like Petrova is some up-and-comer that the tennis world would be fascinated to see move on. She's a career choke-job that would just get rolled over the next round. The crowd just wanted the match to be more interesting than 6-1 6-2.

So true.

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:06 AM
They're all paid by IMG in some way or another. :lol:

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:11 AM
A 10-second glimpse through your post history and I see you saying that you literally HATE a player, along with discussions about armpit hair and herpes. Pot, kettle, black. :wavey: I'd pick your battles a little more wisely, I'm definitely not the one you want to go there with

A. Never claimed I was an adult. Technically, I am. But I would like to point out my perpetual immaturity makes me immune.

B. If you would like to post my 2004 posts in order to show their context, be my guest. If you chose to act a politician and cherry pick, that's fine too.

C. A stain on my reputation doesn't make you less a moron. Which you clearly are.

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:12 AM
Sometimes, I am sort of glad that she does not have huge breasts. It seems enough that she is good enough in business to earn close to thirty million a year, she speaks two languages well, and probably some others, her legs look nice, and her abs are in close to perfect shape. She dresses nicely, and sometimes her hair looks really good. She is a big girl, and has, in my opinion, just the right size rear end. She has won all four grand slams. She wins a lot of tennis matches. If her breasts were huge, that might cause some people to have some sort of envy of her.

This is a fantastic post.

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:17 AM
Unlike you, I am an adult with a job, a family, and a life -- not a teenager fingering myself every time Maria screams. So, unlike you, tennis doesn't make me CRY :haha: What a ridiculous thought

But I know you were just trying to take a cheap shot at a player infintely more talented and accomplished than Sharapova :shrug: Hingis should come out of retirement just to humiliate Pova in a T1 final again :hearts: Maybe she wrote the book for Serena :lol:

is it Hingis in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9PV4-MUgMA

or in this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xPDf-bcaQQ

:lol:
Hingis retired early enough not to turn into a punchbag

hingis-seles
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:39 AM
Fuck off.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:43 AM
Were the announcers kissing ass? Yes. Without question. and yes Navratilova was waaaaaaaay up Maria's ass.

But you must take into consideration the crowd. they too were all over Maria. whether we like it or not, we have to understand that the Maria Sharapova engine drives much of the tennis commentators salaries.

She's hugely popular with the fans. that makes her hugely popular with the sponsors. that makes her hugely popular with those that derive their paycheck directly or indirectly from the sponsors. Tennis commentators have always felt like the game needs a face to drive the popularity of the game and thereby create a good deal of job security for themselves. Maria Sharapova is that face - that personality.

...That's just the way it is, whether we like it or not.Fortunately or unfortunately, all true.
Personally, I don't understand the draw, but I get the feeling that it's an obvious one, and one unnecessarily defined due to obvious reasoning(s).

It's America.
'Nuff said.

Morning Morgan
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:48 AM
Not really, the eurosport commentators had very harsh words about her habits and behavior today.

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:57 AM
Fortunately or unfortunately, all true.
Personally, I don't understand the draw, but I get the feeling that that it's an obvious one, and one unnecessarily defined due to obvious reasoning(s).

It's America.
'Nuff said.
Wasn't there a thread somewhere about probability inconsistencies with the draw in relation to the computer programming of it? I saw it briefly, but I didn't have opportunity to really dive down deep into it. I'd love to go back and read all of that. It seemed ...interesting.

ezone
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:13 AM
Don't expect announcers to be fair. ESPN with approval of the USTA ordered announcers not to be overly critical of American players which is why a few well known tennis announcers left ESPN and tennis channel. Besides how can Adidas coaches (very knowledgeable without question) work on TV while coaching players who are competing. Outside of listening to comments regarding technique and strategy don't pay much attention.

perseus2006
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:14 AM
Watched the vids. Everyone talks about Hingis hitting acute angles, drops, lobs, changeups, ball placement - so much variety! None of that was evident in either vid. Hingis did nothing special, just put the ball back in play, a very good backboard.

Actually I think ARad is a much improved version of Hingis - not as fast but places the ball much better, changes the direction better and anticipates better.

So, somebody send NashaMasha a bag of Sugarpova Smitten!

Potato
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:26 AM
I don't like it either, but it's the commentator's job to make the viewers happy. Sharapova is an icon and they have to kiss her ass. :shrug: We shouldn't blame them for that.

It's a shame, if Sharapova weren't hot, she would only have 10% of the fans she has now. And don't try to deny it, Mashabators :wavey:

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:33 AM
It's a shame, if Sharapova weren't hot, she would only have 10% of the fans she has now. And don't try to deny it, Mashabators

If Serena had been born in Mongolia , she would have had 10% of her american fans )

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:40 AM
I don't like it either, but it's the commentator's job to make the viewers happy. Sharapova is an icon and they have to kiss her ass. :shrug: We shouldn't blame them for that.

It's a shame, if Sharapova weren't hot, she would only have 10% of the fans she has now. And don't try to deny it, Mashabators :wavey:

This may be true. But that's the way it is. Not just a women's sports thing either. You think Philip Koelschreiber is getting Roger Federer endorsements even if he starts winning slams?

Personally, I think there are 50 WTA players "hotter" than Sharapova, but all but a very few of them fall to her power and steel. Clearly, Serena is the best player on tour right now (and maybe ever), but she and Maria are the stars right now and stars drive ratings and ratings help with advertisement and advertisement causes business people to allocate funds for new/renewed television contracts and those contracts sometimes go to the people that announce.

So if you expect them to take extremist positions regarding "screeching" or "poor sportsmanship" with the likes of Maria or Serena, you are probably being naive.

ACEof DIAMONDS
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:43 AM
^ Business is business and $ is $

We've been hearing about Sugarpova all week. You don't think ESPN, IMG, etc. has an invested interest in that. Maria isn't the only one who invested money in that business venture. Just a small example, but there's always a purpose behind something.

I'm sure there are announcers who aren't the biggest fans of Maria and other players but their higher ups give them a general idea of how to talk about someone, especially if they want to spin them in a positive light towards the general public. That's why at times I take what an announcer or analyst has to say when talking about a respective sport. I think are they saying that because they believe it or because they are trying to drive ratings.

Potato
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:50 AM
This may be true. But that's the way it is. Not just a women's sports thing either. You think Philip Koelschreiber is getting Roger Federer endorsements even if he starts winning slams?

Personally, I think there are 50 WTA players "hotter" than Sharapova, but all but a very few of them fall to her power and steel. Clearly, Serena is the best player on tour right now (and maybe ever), but she and Maria are the stars right now and stars drive ratings and ratings help with advertisement and advertisement causes business people to allocate funds for new/renewed television contracts and those contracts sometimes go to the people that announce.

So if you expect them to take extremist positions regarding "screeching" or "poor sportsmanship" with the likes of Maria or Serena, you are probably being naive.

Yep. How could you expect a commentator on ESPN shit talk Sharapova (and Serena?) during the US Open? It is silly to expect that a media job must be completely unbiased. I understand that it's annoying but it's not right to fault the commentators for it. Their job is to help the network and overall popularity of the sport. The best way to do that is to advertise and praise the icons of the sport. :shrug:

And about Sharapova's hotness - Obviously she is a champion and that would get her fans enough but combined with her universally loved tall Aryan look catapults her fame exponentially. There is no way that she would have nearly as many fans if it weren't for her looks. And no, I am not hating on Pova, I think she's awesome for actually using her genetics to become such a successful individual and international icon :wavey: I just think it's a shame that those who claim to be fans of tennis only like her for her looks and bandwagon on her success.

hilluis
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:51 AM
Not really, the eurosport commentators had very harsh words about her habits and behavior today.

Curious to know what they were saying - and which commentators? Cant remember his name, but there is one male Eurosport commentator who is overly enthusiastic about Maria..sighs constantly in wonder and awe.

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:55 AM
Let's take Martina Navritalova for example. It's clear that she loves Petra Kvitova. Not only does she love her game, she has a personal attachment to her as a player due to her nationality (and the fact that she's a lefty probably doesn't hurt).

But she tries like hell (at least I think she does) to hide her obvious rooting interest, and is almost overly harsh about her if she loses (natural reaction).

She'll be damned if she does anything to jeopardize her nice contract and the ability to still travel with the tennis circuit and be an integral part of the tennis world.

Not to say that I think anyone's putting pressure on her... she's just smart enough to know who butters her bread.

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:56 AM
I just think it's a shame that those who claim to be fans of tennis only like her for her looks and bandwagon on her success.

It's completely not true.... Kirilenko is also very pretty blond , but has neglectable number of fans. Sharapova is a mixture of everything a top star in tennis should have. Her agressive tennis with her lasershots is also entertaining for her fans ....
Some tennisfans love extremely risky tennis ,other prefer Radwanska.... you know.


But she tries like hell (at least I think she does) to hide her obvious rooting interest, and is almost overly harsh about her if she loses (natural reaction).

Navratilova told that in 2012 Vika and Petra would be struggling for the crown and Masha not even close to them ...... In the middle of season she understood that she was wrong. For instance speaking about Petra's future "let's wait until she wins her second slam" (now too early to say)

Hiko
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:10 AM
I just think it's a shame that those who claim to be fans of tennis only like her for her looks and bandwagon on her success.[/font]

But that's not just it. She's clearly attractive, but is she more attractive than Maria Kirilenko? Wozniacki? Venus? Julia Goerges? Petkovic? Dulko?

Looks are a dime a dozen in the WTA.

Sharapova and Serena are stars because they are the total marketing package: Attractive, loud, aloof, multi-champions, stars from a young age (household names), mentally and (in Serena's case) physically superior to the rest of the players on tour. Steely-eyed cutthroats that can open a can of whoopass on anyone if they're on.

Like I said earlier, I personally like drama to the Semis, I prefer for there to be about 10 players that could occupy those top 4 spots, but I don't like it when some of them are powderpuffs that in a perfect environment would have no chance.

But I appreciate the qualities that make them stars, the way that Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray sort of invalidate the rest of the field with their skills.

ACEof DIAMONDS
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:34 AM
Looks are a dime a dozen in the WTA.


http://www.listandalucia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/786.jpg

ziros
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:54 AM
But that's not just it. She's clearly attractive, but is she more attractive than Maria Kirilenko? Wozniacki? Venus? Julia Goerges? Petkovic? Dulko?

Looks are a dime a dozen in the WTA.


So why aren't those names you listed getting as many endorsements as Anna Kournikova who had less success on tour than almost all of them? Ivanovic is attractive,so why didn't she get as much attention or endorsements after her slam win as Maria did after Wimbledon? Just face it,there's several facets to Maria's off court success...

babsi
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:58 AM
So why aren't those names you listed getting as many endorsements as Anna Kournikova who had less success on tour than almost all of them? Ivanovic is attractive,so why didn't she get as much attention or endorsements after her slam win as Maria did after Wimbledon? Just face it,there's several facets to Maria's off court success...

DH Management:lol:

joăo.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM
It's a shame, if Sharapova weren't hot, she would only have 10% of the fans she has now. And don't try to deny it, Mashabators :wavey:

If Serena had been born in Mongolia , she would have had 10% of her american fans )

sddj2e2ijdisdfuhr2ujer2o31 http://i37.tinypic.com/1zmh1c3.gif%2520(Christina)

Lilowannabe
Sep 3rd, 2012, 12:23 PM
Ivanovic is attractive,so why didn't she get as much attention or endorsements after her slam win as Maria did after Wimbledon? Just face it,there's several facets to Maria's off court success...

Would have to agree with you that her looks alone arent the sole reason for her off court success. She is a media darling. But the Wimbldeon stage, combined with the fact she was a fresh 17 year old girl, was sooo important in Maria's exposure. Wimbldeon is still seen as the biggest stage in tennis universally. Had Ivanovic won wimbldeon as a fresh looking 17 year old, im pretty sure she would be the huge sports star Shazza is now. just my opinion

acetoace
Sep 3rd, 2012, 12:39 PM
I actually believe her PR not only pay bonuses to announcers, her team also push the envelopes to "important connects" to secure better match scheduling at slams. The consistency is too overwhelming to ignore. I've noticed it over the years.:rolleyes:

timafi
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:02 PM
I'm at a loss of words. Every single announcer on the Tennis Channel is praising Maria whether she plays well or not. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. Navratilova is all up Sharapova's ass, to the point where she could report on what Maria had for lunch, praising her gutsy serving, right before a double fault, then she skips the commentary all together until the next point. It's comical. The only explanation I can see is that Maria's management or public relations pays for positive commentary. I just can't see that a knowledgeable commentator such as Navratilova or Davenport would withhold legitimate criticism, unless they were paid to do so.

let me guess,I don't think you would be complaining had they been doing the same for Venus and Serena:rolleyes:


p.s: I hate it regardless of players.It does my fucking head in:mad:

Hashim.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:25 PM
That is true actually.:lol: Chanda Rubin and her partner might have repeated more than 30 times in the second set alone about how she forgets what happened in the last point and how tough she is.
She hits a good second serve..Chanda's reaction: Wow she is amazing ..so confident
Then Maria follows it up with a double fault in the next point..Chanda's reaction: Wow she is amazing ..so confident..keeps going for her serve.

Its like she can do no wrong.:lol:

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:13 PM
Wasn't there a thread somewhere about probability inconsistencies with the draw in relation to the computer programming of it? I saw it briefly, but I didn't have opportunity to really dive down deep into it. I'd love to go back and read all of that. It seemed ...interesting.If you can locate it, please let me know.
Maybe there is something to be gleaned from it.

Cosmic Voices
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:18 PM
It's true about the commentators lusting after Maria, but some seething WS fans/masha haters stating she's ugly, a pig is still a pig with lipstick on. Fucking get a life you angry trolls

TeraByte
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:19 PM
Really she was at the right place at the right time. Kournikova-mania was extreme, and here comes another thin blonde Russian who actually WINS something, beating the evil, black Serena. Maria was the blonde GWH, and her marketers have maintained that image ever since then.

This is probably the best explanation of Sharapova hype.

Wiggly
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:30 PM
Sharapova is hot now? Seriously? I was watching stand-up comedy central the other week and and the dude was cracking on how ugly she is. I don't know any straight guys that find her remotely attractive. She looks like a tranny mess. She photoshops well, that's about it.

She was very pretty when she won Wimbledon. Nowadays her looks have faltered quite a bit.

It's very surprising to see her getting so much endorsements as she isn't that well-liked.
She's respected but people don't adore her.

Cosmic Voices
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:39 PM
She was very pretty when she won Wimbledon. Nowadays her looks have faltered quite a bit.

It's very surprising to see her getting so much endorsements as she isn't that well-liked.
She's respected but people don't adore her.

Tbf, I'd rather have Masha endorsing and actually winning matches + tournaments than being an Anna K who couldn't back up her off-court endeavours.

Bitch might not be well liked but she's a clever business woman :shrug:

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:49 PM
The "tranny mess" part was a dig on her masculine face and body, not her sexual orientation. But yes she is not a pretty girl, if you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig :shrug:

Really she was at the right place at the right time. Kournikova-mania was extreme, and here comes another thin blonde Russian who actually WINS something, beating the evil, black Serena. Maria was the blonde GWH, and her marketers have maintained that image ever since then.I honestly don't agree with most of your posts over the years, but this one resonated with me, because I feel that it is so true.

I recall that Maria defeating Serena at Wimbledon came at a time when many in the tennis world were upset that Serena and Venus were so successful. The tennis world stated that these two sisters were destroying the "image" of tennis. That their tennis was UGLY! That they didn't play enough, which is why their wins were so distorted. That they fixed their matches so that one would win and share the fame. That their father was crazy to skip (mostly) Junior tennis. That they NEEDED a coach other than their parents (essentially a White coach). And the list goes on and on.
And the reason for all of this denigration was as obvious to me at that time, just as it is now (concerning Serena).

Posters in this thread actually believe that Serena is embraced just as much as Maria in America. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I would love ANYONE to show me definitive proof of this.

Serena is the Devil to Maria's angel here.
That is how America operates.

America doesn't want a strong Black woman representing it. That goes against the very essence and history of this country.

And if you take it as far as the Presidency here in this country, my proof is...a very majority White political party's (Republicans) primary goal is to remove that Black man (Barack Obama) from office by making it their primary political goal; rather than passing legislature to help the economy recover. And the ONLY reason reason why I used politics as an analogy is to demonstrate the lengths to which this country is willing to go prevent positive Black images, personalities, and achievements to be publicized.
Politically allowing their own people to stave or die of curable illnesses just to get that Black face out as it's representative.
I mean, really!

You folks just do not realize how deplorable this can be to people who support and admire Serena (and Venus), because many of you foreigners, and those not familiar with America's history, accept and believe that same negative hype machine, and media propaganda.

Sorry, but had to be said.

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:00 PM
I honestly don't agree with most of your posts over the years, but this one resonated with me, because I feel that it is so true.

I recall that Maria defeating Serena at Wimbledon came at a time when many in the tennis world were upset that Serena and Venus were so successful. The tennis world stated that these two sisters were destroying the "image" of tennis. That their tennis was UGLY! That they didn't play enough, which is why their wins were so distorted. That they fixed their matches so that one would win and share the fame. That their father was crazy to skip (mostly) Junior tennis. That they NEEDED a coach other than their parents (essentially a White coach). And the list goes on and on.
And the reason for all of this denigration was as obvious to me at that time, just as it is now (concerning Serena).

Posters in this thread actually believe that Serena is embraced just as much as Maria in America. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I would love ANYONE to show me definitive proof of this.

Serena is the Devil to Maria's angel here.
That is how America operates.

America doesn't want a strong Black woman representing it. That goes against the very essence and history of this country.

And if you take it as far as the Presidency here in this country, my proof is...a very majority White political party's (Republicans) primary goal is to remove that Black man (Barack Obama) from office by making it their primary political goal; rather than passing legislature to help the economy recover. And the ONLY reason reason why I used politics as an analogy is to demonstrate the lengths to which this country is willing to go prevent positive Black images, personalities, and achievements to be publicized.
Politically allowing their own people to stave or die of curable illnesses just to get that Black face out as it's representative.
I mean, really!

You folks just do not realize how deplorable this can be to people who support and admire Serena (and Venus), because many of you foreigners, and those not familiar with America's history, accept and believe that same negative hype machine, and media propaganda.

Sorry, but had to be said.I disagree. You have to separate the American tennis community from America at large.
Serena is the most popular female athlete in the United States.

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:17 PM
A. Never claimed I was an adult. Technically, I am. But I would like to point out my perpetual immaturity makes me immune.

B. If you would like to post my 2004 posts in order to show their context, be my guest. If you chose to act a politician and cherry pick, that's fine too.

C. A stain on my reputation doesn't make you less a moron. Which you clearly are.

Here is one for you to suck on with you liver-lips!! :)


How many SLAMS would Maria HAVE WON, if Serena didn't exist?????

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:17 PM
I disagree. You have to separate the American tennis community from America at large.
Serena is the most popular female athlete in the United States.Again I ask, show me how Serena is embraced as much as Maria, who isn't even American.

Gonna go do my morning workout, but will return in about 1 - 2 hours to continue the discussion.
Maybe I'm incorrect, but I'd like to see the evidence, as I've followed Serena since prior to her turning pro, and see this very differently than you do.
But I am open to whatever proof that you can present that gives Serena even 40% of the love that Maria gets from the American public and the tennis world at large over the entire course of their careers.

Cosmic Voices
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:20 PM
Nah.... u got that wrong!!!!!!!1 ACETOACE is the one who bring to open what ya'll rabid, delusional, depressed, deranged pova fans wish are not talked about and would rather see swept under the carpet. Been here a while; know exactly what's in play here and I know I'm deep under ya'll skins.:bounce:

Rabid, delusional, depressed, deranged....and then speaking in the third person.

Acetoace, you are a special person :)

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:53 PM
Again I ask, show me how Serena is embraced as much as Maria, who isn't even American.

Gonna go do my morning workout, but will return in about 1 - 2 hours to continue the discussion.
Maybe I'm incorrect, but I'd like to see the evidence, as I've followed Serena since prior to her turning pro, and see this very differently than you do.
But I am open to whatever proof that you can present that gives Serena even 40% of the love that Maria gets from the American public and the tennis world at large over the entire course of their careers.The burden of proof is on you, to show data on how much Maria is embraced in the United States. The majority of Maria's money/popularity is her global appeal, not her standing in America.

Serena has consistently ranked as the most popular female athlete in America (with Danika Patrick knocking her off one year) pretty much every year since 2002. She scores the highest TV ratings of every female player, she has won the most ESPYs, etc. She is the consistently the most googled female athlete (http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/12/14/the-30-most-googled-female-athletes-of-2011/#31), etc. Serena's approval in the American tennis world cannot be equated to her approval in the United States at large. The general public in the US loves her.

JeMa
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:55 PM
That is true actually.:lol: Chanda Rubin and her partner might have repeated more than 30 times in the second set alone about how she forgets what happened in the last point and how tough she is.
She hits a good second serve..Chanda's reaction: Wow she is amazing ..so confident
Then Maria follows it up with a double fault in the next point..Chanda's reaction: Wow she is amazing ..so confident..keeps going for her serve.

Its like she can do no wrong.:lol:

I think Chanda's new at this right. She hasn't impressed me yet as a commentator.

Rest Maria!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:00 PM
Hingis $20,130,657 / Sharapova $21,128,860

Adjust for inflation and Hingis' shorter career and it's obvious Hingis was earning more on court.

JeMa
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:02 PM
The burden of proof is on you, to show data on how much Maria is embraced in the United States. The majority of Maria's money/popularity is her global appeal, not her standing in America.

Serena has consistently ranked as the most popular female athlete in America (with Danika Patrick knocking her off one year) pretty much every year since 2002. She scores the highest TV ratings of every female player, she has won the most ESPYs, etc. She is the consistently the most googled female athlete (http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/12/14/the-30-most-googled-female-athletes-of-2011/#31), etc. Serena's approval in the American tennis world cannot be equated to her approval in the United States at large. The general public in the US loves her.

Not quite. I have come to embrace Serena once again, after she lost me in the last couple of years. But I will say she is not universally loved in this country. I do know people that she lost after her recent US Open behaviors and people that jumped to her defense even in her worst light. She is polarizing to the tennis community. When she and her sister were dominating every final people were against them, wanting them to lose - so they could see other people play. I was one of those people. Now that they have been out of the finals and towards the end of their careers they are loved once again. People like an underdog. People like a champion but they want others to challenge those champions. Serena's popularity has not always been there. She had been a emotional rollercoaster for me as a fan of hers and I can't criticize those who don't like her. I find it understandable. But like her or not you cannot deny her great tennis ability.

As for Danica Patrick, who I couldn't pick out of a line-up that is Nascar red state bullshit. The same bullshit that has Nascar as the most popular sport in the US.

Also I think Sharapova might beat Serena out in googles.

JeMa
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:05 PM
Adjust for inflation and Hingis' shorter career and it's obvious Hingis was earning more on court.

That's Maria's on-court earnings. Her off-court earnings are somewhere >100 million

Rest Maria!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:07 PM
That's Maria's on-court earnings.
And what was the topic at hand? :facepalm:

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:10 PM
Not quite. I have come to embrace Serena once again, after she lost me in the last couple of years. But I will say she is not universally loved in this country. I do know people that she lost after her recent US Open behaviors and people that jumped to her defense even in her worst light. She is polarizing to the tennis community. When she and her sister were dominating every final people were against them, wanting them to lose - so they could see other people play. I was one of those people. Now that they have been out of the finals and towards the end of their careers they are loved once again. People like an underdog. People like a champion but they want others to challenge those champions. Serena's popularity has not always been there. She had been a emotional rollercoaster for me as a fan of hers and I can't criticize those who don't like her. I find it understandable. But like her or not you cannot deny her great tennis ability.

As for Danica Patrick, who I couldn't pick out of a line-up that is Nascar red state bullshit. The same bullshit that has Nascar as the most popular sport in the US.

Also I think Sharapova might beat Serena out in googles.He asked for objective data, and I gave it to him.
While I do respect your perspective, everything that you have said is subjective and anecdotal.

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:13 PM
Adjust for inflation and Hingis' shorter career and it's obvious Hingis was earning more on court.

Maria is just in the middle of her career ,

babsi
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:14 PM
Adjust for inflation and Hingis' shorter career and it's obvious Hingis was earning more on court.

Doubles.

JeMa
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:44 PM
And what was the topic at hand? :facepalm:

But it's obvious as printed Hingis doesn't have more on-court earnings.

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:51 PM
Again I ask, show me how Serena is embraced as much as Maria, who isn't even American.

The answer is OBVIOUS!!!

Shouldn't even have to ask that question!!:)

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:01 PM
The burden of proof is on you, to show data on how much Maria is embraced in the United States. The majority of Maria's money/popularity is her global appeal, not her standing in America.The burden of proof is on me? :confused:
That's a cope-out and this is no court of law.
I simply asked for 'proof', and you give me nothing.
Then you turn to global appeal, when I specifically stated HERE IN AMERICA.
So I take it you can not adequately depute my claim.

Serena has consistently ranked as the most popular female athlete in America (with Danika Patrick knocking her off one year) pretty much every year since 2002. She scores the highest TV ratings of every female player, she has won the most ESPYs, etc. She is the consistently the most googled female athlete (http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/12/14/the-30-most-googled-female-athletes-of-2011/#31), etc. Serena's approval in the American tennis world cannot be equated to her approval in the United States at large. The general public in the US loves her.If Serena is, as you suggest, "...ranked as the most popular female athlete in America (with Danika Patrick knocking her off one year) pretty much every year since 2002."then of course the data to prove that is out there, right? Please post said data.

Sure the TV viewer ratings are high because Serena is a big draw (but not consistently high), and the tennis community IN AMERICA watches with one other main hope in mind---to see if she loses.

I mean, I'm a HUGE F'ing Serena fan, but I'm not so delusional to believe that she draws significant viewership because she is loved by the majority of tennis viewers IN AMERICA.
Come on now.

ESPY isn't an indicator because it is based upon achievements, not purely likability or popularity.

Let me say this one last time...*SIGH*

Serena is NOT embraced by America at large as Maria is.
And Maria isn't even American.
IW was an excellent indicator of this.
Even the WTA (when Larry Scott was head) created a Road Map to force Serena (and Venus) to play in hateful tourneys.
Do you call THAT love?
Do you call THAT embracing and a sign of popularity.
I didn't even mention that damn Open Letter that Evert wrote or even the plethora of hate comments that are generated whenever Serena 'goes off' on a rant. Something that White tennis players get a pass on (Capriati, Roddick, McEnroe, etc...)
Did I mention how AMERICAN commentators constantly gave hints on how to defeat Serena (and Venus) for YEARS?
Did I mention all the times when Serena couldn't play Fed Cup due to injuries and AMERICA slammed her publicly.
Even Oudin got involved.

Now it's fine if you want to believe what you believe, but you haven't presented any factual data to dispute my contention. I honestly wish that you could have, but you haven't. :shrug:

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:39 PM
The answer is OBVIOUS!!!

Shouldn't even have to ask that question!!:)Absolutely.

But LBV vehemently disagrees, and I'm simply asking him why, and for proof.

And I didn't even mention the most recent fact...

Serena brought home two Olympic Golds, and all a large portion of America could focus on was her Crip Dance.

I'd like for LBV to explain the loving embrace on that issue, and why a major AMERICAN sports journalist wrote to denigrate her for a simple dance.

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:08 PM
The burden of proof is on me? :confused:
That's a cope-out and this is no court of law.
I simply asked for 'proof', and you give me nothing.
Then you turn to global appeal, when I specifically stated HERE IN AMERICA.
So I take it you can not adequately depute my claim.

You asserted that Maria Sharapova is more embraced than Serena Williams in the United States. Now I am assuming you mean the United States in broad terms, across all ages, races, and demographics, not just among American tennis enthusiasts? How can one offer proof of something being "embraced", when that is a purely subjective measure? What I did was try to break down the concept of being "embraced" into 2 (albeit imperfect) concepts than can be measured: popularity and marketability. Google searches are a pretty good measure of popularity. Here is some data that show how often Serena is googled in the United States, compared to Maria Sharapova:

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+maria+sharapova&date=all&geo=usa&ctab=0&sort=0&sa=N

If you see, Serena is consistently more google searched than Sharapova, and has been for most of the past 8 years.
To the question of marketability: it is undeniable that Sharapova is more marketable than Serena on a global level for many reasons. However, lets look at marketability as a measure, and look at most recent data. The international marketing firm Sponsorhub put out a list of the most marketable/sponsorable Olympians a little while back.

http://8.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MostSponsorableOlympians_0724.jpeg

Federer is the most sponsorable, followed by Serena Williams and Lebron James, who are tied for second. An athlete cannot be marketable or sonsorable if they are not embraced. Serena's high-level sponsorships with brands like Nike, Kraft, Gatorade, HSN, etc. (all MAJOR US-based brands) are further proof of her likeability to ability to connect with the American public. As I mentioned, Sharapova has greater appeal outside of the US, as shown in the bulk of her non-Nike deals being from endorsements in Asia and Europe. But in the United States, she is not superior to Serena.

Sure the TV viewer ratings are high because Serena is a big draw (but not consistently high), and the tennis community IN AMERICA watches with one other main hope in mind---to see if she loses.

I mean, I'm a HUGE F'ing Serena fan, but I'm not so delusional to believe that she draws significant viewership because she is loved by the majority of tennis viewers IN AMERICA.
Come on now.

The highest rated major US-network women's match in the past 12 years was the 2001 US Open final, between her and Venus. Were the public all tuning in then too, in hopes that Serena would lose? 7 million people watched the Olympics final (6% of American households with a TV) hoping that Serena would lose? No! The people who would be ambivalent towards a Serena win (ardent tennis fans) are the people that are going to watch grand slam/Olympic finals REGARDLESS of who is playing. But the general public, the people who don't follow tennis closely, are locked in whenever Serena plays a big match. Tennis is NOT one of the most popular sports in the US, and Serena is bringing in millions of viewers who normally don't even watch tennis. They just tune in when she plays. No other female player is this big of a draw, and despite her flaws, Serena is not so hated that she would have 6+ million people (most of which don't even follow tennis regularly) tune in just to see her lose. That is a misguided, paranoid assertion. And ESPY is NOT based on achievements, otherwise Amelie Mauresmo, Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters would have at least 1 ESPY, right? The ESPY is purely an award to the most popular female tennis player in America at the time, it has little to do with results.

Let me say this one last time...*SIGH*

Serena is NOT embraced by America at large as Maria is.
And Maria isn't even American.
IW was an excellent indicator of this.
Even the WTA (when Larry Scott was head) created a Road Map to force Serena (and Venus) to play in hateful tourneys.
Do you call THAT love?
Do you call THAT embracing and a sign of popularity.
I didn't even mention that damn Open Letter that Evert wrote or even the plethora of hate comments that are generated whenever Serena 'goes off' on a rant. Something that White tennis players get a pass on (Capriati, Roddick, McEnroe, etc...)
Did I mention how AMERICAN commentators constantly gave hints on how to defeat Serena (and Venus) for YEARS?
Did I mention all the times when Serena couldn't play Fed Cup due to injuries and AMERICA slammed her publicly.
Even Oudin got involved.

Now it's fine if you want to believe what you believe, but you haven't presented any factual data to dispute my contention. I honestly wish that you could have, but you haven't. :shrug:1.) I have never disputed that in the American tennis community (until very recently) has always treated Serena in a contentious, hostile manner. But you are talking about people who live, breathe, and feed off of the tennis machine. Of course, they have their own prejudices and vested interests in things remaining a certain way. But I am talking about the AMERICAN PUBLIC AT-LARGE, not the old country club retirees at Indian Wells, or the privileged elite players of the 70s-80s that are still feeding off of modern tennis as commentators.

2.) You haven't presented any factual data to substantiate your own contentions! But I am supposed to counter your subjective feelings about how much America hates Serena with objective data for it to be valid? Okay. :lol::lol:

While I understand your perspective and I respect where you are coming from, your subjective feelings about how much Serena is not embraced by the American public are erroneous, and you are parading them around as fact when they are just your feelings. People who are ardent followers of tennis in the US fall along a particular demographic and yes, they have a lot of bullshit with them that makes the tennis community a hostile place for Serena. But across the country, based on google statistics, marketability ratings, and endorsements, Serena remains one of the most popular and marketable athletes, and is THE most popular female athlete in the United States. Your personal feelings do not dispute these data.

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:11 PM
Absolutely.

But LBV vehemently disagrees, and I'm simply asking him why, and for proof.

And I didn't even mention the most recent fact...

Serena brought home two Olympic Golds, and all a large portion of America could focus on was her Crip Dance.

I'd like for LBV to explain the loving embrace on that issue, and why a major AMERICAN sports journalist wrote to denigrate her for a simple dance.
The only major network that seriously pushed that story was Fox News (surprise, surprise!). And a few rogue interviewers purposely trying to be controversial do not reflect anything more than that individual journalist's own careerist muckracking. Try again.

pov
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:18 PM
Not quite. I have come to embrace Serena once again, after she lost me in the last couple of years. But I will say she is not universally loved in this country.


Also I think Sharapova might beat Serena out in googles.
Google searches are not a measure of favorable popularity. And I can't think of any athlete that is "universally loved."

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:25 PM
Absolutely.

But LBV vehemently disagrees, and I'm simply asking him why, and for proof.

And I didn't even mention the most recent fact...

Serena brought home two Olympic Golds, and all a large portion of America could focus on was her Crip Dance.

I'd like for LBV to explain the loving embrace on that issue, and why a major AMERICAN sports journalist wrote to denigrate her for a simple dance.

In addition, in addition again, :), Sharapova lives in the USA, been here since she was 6 years old. But, she plays under the Russian Banner.WTF!! I would tell her to take her skinny tale back to coldazz Russia!!

However, I am glad she is here. :) Nothing, gives me more pleasure then when Serena is on her game, play Sharapova.. Nothing like it!!!:lol:

You know how Sharapova goes into her antics when she wins?.. Back in 2004 or 2005 when she beat Serena in a slam. She pulled out her cell phone while still on court to call mama in Russia, then she flew all up in the stands to hug papa, and she did the lay out and kneel on the field.. Well, truth be told, Mama ain't got no calls of late. And she ain run up in the stands to see papa. In fact, when she plays Serena, papa leaves.. Ho, ho , ho.. :lol:

A side note, I am an old gent, real old. :) I was here during WWII, when German POWS in the south were given more rights than Black soldiers who were fighting the war for our country. Tis true.

So, this nothing new to me..:)

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:34 PM
Google search is irrelevant , just change Maria Sharapova to Sharapova and it will show other results..
and Williams is a too popular surname


But I checked for other states except USA , like Denmark , Australia, China, India and Masha is leading 3 or even 5 times vs Serena

France
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=fr&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
Italy
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=it&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
China
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=cn&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

Even in USA spanish population prefers Pova with a big margin.... Now just imagine Pova with USA passport

Now pls check the statistics below, it says much about future of WTA
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+sharapova,+azarenka,+radwanska ,+kvitova&ctab=0&geo=us&geor=all&date=all&sort=1

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:52 PM
Google search is irrelevant , just change Maria Sharapova to Sharapova and it will show other results..
and Williams is a too popular surname


But I checked for other states except USA , like Denmark , Australia, China, India and Masha is leading 3 or even 5 times vs Serena

France
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=fr&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
Italy
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=it&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
China
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=cn&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

Even in USA spanish population prefers Pova with a big margin.... Now just imagine Pova with USA passport

Now pls check the statistics below, it says much about future of WTA
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+sharapova,+azarenka,+radwanska ,+kvitova&ctab=0&geo=us&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
Nobody is disputing anything you have said in this post.

edificio
Sep 3rd, 2012, 08:56 PM
I originally thought this was a funny facetious thread, but then it turned into the same old battle. Devolution. :help:

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:03 PM
just Checked once again google search statistics of Pova vs REna in USA ... And it shows that pova in 2004-2008 was leading with a big margin , but after shoulder surgery Serena took the lead

this year it more depends on the results on the court . In June Masha was leading, now Serena's time

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=us&geor=all&date=2012-6&sort=1

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:41 PM
You asserted that Maria Sharapova is more embraced than Serena Williams in the United States. Now I am assuming you mean the United States in broad terms, across all ages, races, and demographics, not just among American tennis enthusiasts? How can one offer proof of something being "embraced", when that is a purely subjective measure? What I did was try to break down the concept of being "embraced" into 2 (albeit imperfect) concepts than can be measured: popularity and marketability. Google searches are a pretty good measure of popularity. Here is some data that show how often Serena is googled in the United States, compared to Maria Sharapova:

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+maria+sharapova&date=all&geo=usa&ctab=0&sort=0&sa=N

If you see, Serena is consistently more google searched than Sharapova, and has been for most of the past 8 years.Google searches cannot be used as a source of "positive" popularity since Serena could kill someone and people would Google who she is. Just as folks googled her after the Crip Walk fiasco, 2011 USO blow-up; general meltdowns, or even when she's in a two-piece on the beach and little kiddies are looking for fapping material. In short, Google isn't a measure of marketability or likability. It is simply a "search engine", not an "measuring index"

To the question of marketability: it is undeniable that Sharapova is more marketable than Serena on a global level for many reasons. However, lets look at marketability as a measure, and look at most recent data. The international marketing firm Sponsorhub put out a list of the most marketable/sponsorable Olympians a little while back.

http://8.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MostSponsorableOlympians_0724.jpeg

Federer is the most sponsorable, followed by Serena Williams and Lebron James, who are tied for second. An athlete cannot be marketable or sonsorable if they are not embraced. Serena's high-level sponsorships with brands like Nike, Kraft, Gatorade, HSN, etc. (all MAJOR US-based brands) are further proof of her likeability to ability to connect with the American public. As I mentioned, Sharapova has greater appeal outside of the US, as shown in the bulk of her non-Nike deals being from endorsements in Asia and Europe. But in the United States, she is not superior to Serena.Honestly, that's all very interesting information. I bookmarked it as well. :)
However, I am specifically referencing her birth country (nationality), where foreigners receive more love and are more embraced.

The highest rated major US-network women's match in the past 12 years was the 2001 US Open final, between her and Venus. Were the public all tuning in then too, in hopes that Serena would lose? 7 million people watched the Olympics final (6% of American households with a TV) hoping that Serena would lose? No! The people who would be ambivalent towards a Serena win (ardent tennis fans) are the people that are going to watch grand slam/Olympic finals REGARDLESS of who is playing. But the general public, the people who don't follow tennis closely, are locked in whenever Serena plays a big match. Tennis is NOT one of the most popular sports in the US, and Serena is bringing in millions of viewers who normally don't even watch tennis. They just tune in when she plays. No other female player is this big of a draw, and despite her flaws, Serena is not so hated that she would have 6+ million people (most of which don't even follow tennis regularly) tune in just to see her lose. That is a misguided, paranoid assertion. And ESPY is NOT based on achievements, otherwise Amelie Mauresmo, Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters would have at least 1 ESPY, right? The ESPY is purely an award to the most popular female tennis player in America at the time, it has little to do with results.Nice try, but not good enough.
People tuned in to watch two sisters battle it out. It was an interesting and rare occurrence. Don't attempt to re-categorize a known fact. Every commentator from the USA to Europe and beyond found such an occurrence intriguing. And every time they met, people wondered if something negative could be gleaned from their matches. For example, did either sister allow the other to win? Did one try harder than the other? Would this meeting be more telling than the previous. In short, AMERICANS were looking for a chink in the family armour. This conclusion could be drown from the post match comments IN AMERICA.

1.) I have never disputed that in the American tennis community (until very recently) has always treated Serena in a contentious, hostile manner. But you are talking about people who live, breathe, and feed off of the tennis machine. Of course, they have their own prejudices and vested interests in things remaining a certain way. But I am talking about the AMERICAN PUBLIC AT-LARGE, not the old country club retirees at Indian Wells, or the privileged elite players of the 70s-80s that are still feeding off of modern tennis as commentators.No.
I am referring to the general "American" public, which includes the tennis community.
I'm not sure why you are parsing, suddenly being selective, and attempting to alter the the context of my original post.

2.) You haven't presented any factual data to substantiate your own contentions! But I am supposed to counter your subjective feelings about how much America hates Serena with objective data for it to be valid? Okay. :lol::lol:
http://newblackman.blogspot.com/2012/01/serena-williams-and-politics-of-haters.html
http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874

(Some reasons are based upon mis-characterizations, lies, and innuendos, like some the following) http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874

(She doesn't espouse the love of tennis that they want her to, so she gets lambasted, for being honest): http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/01/04/why-doesnt-serena-williams-love-tennis/

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2011/06/23/williams-sisters-dont-deserve-the-privileged-status-they-have-in-womens-tennis/

Shall I go on...?

I haven't even included the copious post-match interviews and articles where Serena was constantly asked why she doesn't give credit to her opponents....which in actuality SHE DOES, and HAS.

Serena is considered arrogant, not confident.
An ugly gorilla, linebacker, a man, tranny-in-a-dress, etc...
Shall I look those comments up and post links of them as well.
Many examples of those descriptions were posted here on this very board...BY AMERICANS.

And by the way, she has received death threats in the past.
Death threats, LBV.

While I understand your perspective and I respect where you are coming from, your subjective feelings about how much Serena is not embraced by the American public are erroneous, and you are parading them around as fact when they are just your feelings. People who are ardent followers of tennis in the US fall along a particular demographic and yes, they have a lot of bullshit with them that makes the tennis community a hostile place for Serena. But across the country, based on google statistics, marketability ratings, and endorsements, Serena remains one of the most popular and marketable athletes, and is THE most popular female athlete in the United States. Your personal feelings do not dispute these data.I see.
So these are all solely based on my "feelings"?

I give up.
I've wasted my time in this debate.
You win.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:44 PM
The only major network that seriously pushed that story was Fox News (surprise, surprise!). And a few rogue interviewers purposely trying to be controversial do not reflect anything more than that individual journalist's own careerist muckracking. Try again.I see.

And did you happen to read the follow-up comments, BY AMERICANS?

Btw, I despise both the author and its readership.
However, BOTH ARE AMERICAN-BASED and the readership numbers in the tens of millions of AMERICANS.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:51 PM
In addition, in addition again, :), Sharapova lives in the USA, been here since she was 6 years old. But, she plays under the Russian Banner.WTF!! I would tell her to take her skinny tale back to coldazz Russia!!

However, I am glad she is here. :) Nothing, gives me more pleasure then when Serena is on her game, play Sharapova.. Nothing like it!!!:lol:

You know how Sharapova goes into her antics when she wins?.. Back in 2004 or 2005 when she beat Serena in a slam. She pulled out her cell phone while still on court to call mama in Russia, then she flew all up in the stands to hug papa, and she did the lay out and kneel on the field.. Well, truth be told, Mama ain't got no calls of late. And she ain run up in the stands to see papa. In fact, when she plays Serena, papa leaves.. Ho, ho , ho.. :lol:

A side note, I am an old gent, real old. :) I was here during WWII, when German POWS in the south were given more rights than Black soldiers who were fighting the war for our country. Tis true.

So, this nothing new to me..:)And THIS, ladies and gentlemen is precisely what I am referring to.

THANK YOU cehowardrx7! :cool:

None of this is difficult to understand.
It's life in the world of a Black-American achiever, or a minority who has contributed to this country, but is STILL relegated to 2nd class status.

Or in this case,

...Embraced less than a Russian with far, far, far, less success.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:52 PM
Google search is irrelevant , just change Maria Sharapova to Sharapova and it will show other results..
and Williams is a too popular surname


But I checked for other states except USA , like Denmark , Australia, China, India and Masha is leading 3 or even 5 times vs Serena

France
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=fr&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
Italy
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=it&geor=all&date=all&sort=1
China
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,++sharapova&ctab=0&geo=cn&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

Even in USA spanish population prefers Pova with a big margin.... Now just imagine Pova with USA passport

Now pls check the statistics below, it says much about future of WTA
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+sharapova,+azarenka,+radwanska ,+kvitova&ctab=0&geo=us&geor=all&date=all&sort=1Precisely.

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:57 PM
Google search is irrelevant , just change Maria Sharapova to Sharapova and it will show other results..
and Williams is a too popular surname


But I checked for other states except USA , like Denmark , Australia, China, India and Masha is leading 3 or even 5 times vs Serena

France

I am trying very hard to see your point. Leading in what?
We are talking about tennis, so wtf is she leading in beside being busted with a BEGAL and a BREADSTICK?

Oh, she is leading in POPULARITY in the USA for the same lopside reason, GERMAN POWS in the south were afforded more rights and respect that Black soldiers laying down thier live for this country in WW11.

The same facking reason. So, the point the Maria has, and those German Pows have in common, and makes them popular, is a "pretty white skin"..

period,

Your hate is wasted. :)

NashaMasha
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:03 PM
I am trying very hard to see your point. Leading in what?
We are talking about tennis, so wtf is she leading in beside being busted with a BEGAL and a BREADSTICK?

Oh, she is leading in POPULARITY in the USA for the same lopside reason, GERMAN POWS in the south were afforded more rights and respect that Black soldiers laying down thier live for this country in WW11.

The same facking reason. So, the point the Maria has, and those German Pows have in common, and makes them popular, is a "pretty white skin"..

period,

Your hate is wasted. :)

take you f**king racist bullshit back at home.... Nobody cares about Usain Bolt's Skin and it's not like Lemaitre is gaining popualrity being the only white sprinter ..... Mike Tyson is still much more popular than Klitchko brothers etc

By the way in this thread we are discussing popularity and marketing, you can take your breadsticks to another thread, where it can be more relevant

Oyster
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:04 PM
Google searches cannot be used as a source of "positive" popularity since Serena could kill someone and people would Google who she is. Just as folks googled her after the Crip Walk fiasco, 2011 USO blow-up; general meltdowns, or even when she's in a two-piece on the beach and little kiddies are looking for fapping material.

:spit:
I highly doubt that "little kiddies" looking for fapping material would EVER search for Serena Williams honestly. I mean, why? :shrug: :tape:

Not saying she doesn't have an amazing body, she does... just in the "Dove Campaign for Real Beauty" type of way, not in the, you know, actually sexually attractive type of way.

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:09 PM
take you f**king racist bullshit back at home....


Bite Me NashaMasha.:lol:

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:26 PM
Google searches cannot be used as a source of "positive" popularity since Serena could kill someone and people would Google who she is. Just as folks googled her after the Crip Walk fiasco, 2011 USO blow-up; general meltdowns, or even when she's in a two-piece on the beach and little kiddies are looking for fapping material. In short, Google isn't a measure of marketability or likability. It is simply a "search engine", not an "measuring index"

Honestly, that's all very interesting information. I bookmarked it as well. :)
However, I am specifically referencing her birth country (nationality), where foreigners receive more love and are more embraced.

Nice try, but not good enough.
People tuned in to watch two sisters battle it out. It was an interesting and rare occurrence. Don't attempt to re-categorize a known fact. Every commentator from the USA to Europe and beyond found such an occurrence intriguing. And every time they met, people wondered if something negative could be gleaned from their matches. For example, did either sister allow the other to win? Did one try harder than the other? Would this meeting be more telling than the previous. In short, AMERICANS were looking for a chink in the family armour. This conclusion could be drown from the post match comments IN AMERICA.

No.
I am referring to the general "American" public, which includes the tennis community.
I'm not sure why you are parsing, suddenly being selective, and attempting to alter the the context of my original post.


http://newblackman.blogspot.com/2012/01/serena-williams-and-politics-of-haters.html
http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874

(Some reasons are based upon mis-characterizations, lies, and innuendos, like some the following) http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874

(She doesn't espouse the love of tennis that they want her to, so she gets lambasted, for being honest): http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/01/04/why-doesnt-serena-williams-love-tennis/

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2011/06/23/williams-sisters-dont-deserve-the-privileged-status-they-have-in-womens-tennis/

Shall I go on...?

I haven't even included the copious post-match interviews and articles where Serena was constantly asked why she doesn't give credit to her opponents....which in actuality SHE DOES, and HAS.

Serena is considered arrogant, not confident.
An ugly gorilla, linebacker, a man, tranny-in-a-dress, etc...
Shall I look those comments up and post links of them as well.
Many examples of those descriptions were posted here on this very board...BY AMERICANS.

And by the way, she has received death threats in the past.
Death threats, LBV.

I see.
So these are all solely based on my "feelings"?

I give up.
I've wasted my time in this debate.
You win.Google is a measure of popularity, although not necessarily how favorable Serena is, true. But just like people are googling Serena for her outbursts, there are also people googling Serena Williams to see recaps of her grand slam wins, her philanthropic work, general paparazzi blogs to see her latest appearances, etc. However, if you take an aggregate of how many times she is googled plus how favorably professional marketing firms rate her, you can get a rough measure for how favored she is (which even you could not dispute the SponsorHub scores). I don't know how you somehow divorced the Sponsorhub scores from her popularity in America - the US is the world's most important consumer market, so the Sponsorhub rankings are OBVIOUSLY constituted in large part by a measure of Serena's marketability in the US.

And those blogs are selectively chosen, anybody can post a blog entry about anything at anytime. I can find you an equal number of blogs talking about how wonderful Serena is, how shes such an awesome role model, how shes so sexy, etc. You can't extrapolate anything meaningful about the attitudes of Americans at-large from a quick glance at a few blog postings, unless you sample and survey the postings in a representative, systematic way. The majority of those articles you posted are opinion pieces from people who are in the tennis press. As I said in my other posts, these people (Bodo, Chase, Wertheim, etc.) are part of a tennis establishment that is hostile towards Serena. But the personal feelings of these people do not = the attitudes of all, or even most Americans! Otherwise, Serena would have no endorsements at all! What corporate brand would pay millions to someone to endorse their product, when they are reviled by most of the American public?! So yes, those are all your personal feelings that are heavily influenced by your own life experiences. Which, like I said, are completely valid. But they are also completely subjective not particularly salient or meaningful to anyone but you and other people who have similar life experiences.

It appears that you are not open in this discussion at all. You already have your mind made up about all of these topics, and any evidence to the contrary is totally minimized and disregarded by you (the Sponsurhub marketability scores, for example). So if you just are an ideologue, then yes, this debate has been a waste of time for us both.

perseus2006
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:38 PM
RVD, you cannot backup your unsupported assertions. On the basis of your posts, you essentially claim Serenka to be a martyr simply because she is black. This ridiculous Race Baiting!

She is massively popular in most segments of the USA population.

But not all segments of the USA population. One segment that is definitely very negative about her: Parents of girls involved in sports. The reason for this segment being so negative is her consistently despicable behavior from lax work ethic, denegrating opponents, threatening opponents on court, violently asaulting a linesman, insulting umpires and playing the race card. No parent wants their kid to act like that! In fact, she is held up as an example of What Not To Do by parents and coaches.

She has earned by her own behavior what she gets from this one segment. I know, you will say she never claimed to be a Role Model. Good, she isn't.

bandabou
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:59 PM
:spit:
I highly doubt that "little kiddies" looking for fapping material would EVER search for Serena Williams honestly. I mean, why? :shrug: :tape:

Not saying she doesn't have an amazing body, she does... just in the "Dove Campaign for Real Beauty" type of way, not in the, you know, actually sexually attractive type of way.

And Masha is?! :shrug:

cehowardrx7
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:04 PM
RVD, you cannot backup your unsupported assertions. On the basis of your posts, you essentially claim Serenka to be a martyr simply because she is black. This ridiculous Race Baiting!

She is massively popular in most segments of the USA population.

But not all segments of the USA population. One segment that is definitely very negative about her: Parents of girls involved in sports. The reason for this segment being so negative is her consistently despicable behavior from lax work ethic, denegrating opponents, threatening opponents on court, violently asaulting a linesman, insulting umpires and playing the race card. No parent wants their kid to act like that! In fact, she is held up as an example of What Not To Do by parents and coaches.

She has earned by her own behavior what she gets from this one segment. I know, you will say she never claimed to be a Role Model. Good, she isn't.

Good Lord, where in the fack do you people come from!!!

You might as well go back to calling the Williams Sisters gorillias, that was the favorite saying when they came on the scene and started winning. But, my point is where in the fack do you people come from?

I watched Jackie Robinson the first time on the field, oy yeah, and I am that old. The same level and reason hate that was displayed then, is displayed now. Your post REEKS with it..

No bother replying we have seen your card..:lol:

blackandblue
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:10 PM
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/833/Default.aspx

Favorite Female Sports Star

Just like the past two years, Serena and Venus Williams are number one and number two on the Favorite Female Sports Star list, again followed by race car driver Danica Patrick. Tennis star and Wimbledon runner-up Maria Sharapova moves up one spot from number 5 to number 4 this year while soccer legend Mia Hamm drops one point from number 4 to number 5.

RVD, I respect your opinion, but you're off base here. Mainstream America loves Serena, even more than they do Maria. This poll was taken for a time period during which Serena wasn't even playing tennis, and she STILL comes out on top.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:10 PM
Google is a measure of popularity, although not necessarily how favorable Serena is, true. But just like people are googling Serena for her outbursts, there are also people googling Serena Williams to see recaps of her grand slam wins, her philanthropic work, general paparazzi blogs to see her latest appearances, etc. However, if you take an aggregate of how many times she is googled plus how favorably professional marketing firms rate her, you can get a rough measure for how favored she is (which even you could not dispute the SponsorHub scores). I don't know how you somehow divorced the Sponsorhub scores from her popularity in America - the US is the world's most important consumer market, so the Sponsorhub rankings are OBVIOUSLY constituted in large part by a measure of Serena's marketability in the US.One last time about Google.

It cannot be used as a 'popularity index'.
So why are you stuck on that?
It is simply a search engine.
A starting point, if you will.

And even if we did include Google as a social indicator, are you suggesting that far more people in America conducted searches on Serena due to her popularity?
Sure, after her Olympics Gold success, I agree. But what about over the course of her entire career; which again, is the context of my original post? You can even sum it up as:
"America's Relationship With Serena Williams".

Secondly, how does one separate Worldwide searches and searches conducted by Americans?
If you know of a way, then by all means, demonstrate it.

And again, I don't care about the rest of the world.
I am talking specifically about A-MER-I-CA!!
*sigh*
Can we PLEASE confine this to the context of my original post?!

Btw, "marketability" isn't always an index based upon positive popularity of in individual. And though you agreed, you still insist on using it to support your argument?
Really?

And those blogs are selectively chosen, anybody can post a blog entry about anything at anytime. I can find you an equal number of blogs talking about how wonderful Serena is, how shes such an awesome role model, how shes so sexy, etc. You can't extrapolate anything meaningful about the attitudes of Americans at-large from a quick glance at a few blog postings, unless you sample and survey the postings in a representative, systematic way. The majority of those articles you posted are opinion pieces from people who are in the tennis press. As I said in my other posts, these people (Bodo, Chase, Wertheim, etc.) are part of a tennis establishment that is hostile towards Serena. But the personal feelings of these people do not = the attitudes of all, or even most Americans! Otherwise, Serena would have no endorsements at all! What corporate brand would pay millions to someone to endorse their product, when they are reviled by most of the American public?! So yes, those are all your personal feelings that are heavily influenced by your own life experiences. Which, like I said, are completely valid. But they are also completely subjective not particularly salient or meaningful to anyone but you and other people who have similar life experiences.The media owns Blogs as well. Or didn't you know that?
There are expert analysis Blogs, news Blogs, Sports Blogs, etc...
It's all a part of the media.
Did you even read one single link?
The links even lead to other credible sources.
I ask because you didn't so much as comment on a single one.

It appears that you are not open in this discussion at all. You already have your mind made up about all of these topics, and any evidence to the contrary is totally minimized and disregarded by you (the Sponsurhub marketability scores, for example). So if you just are an ideologue, then yes, this debate has been a waste of time for us both.Another cope-out paragraph.
Dude, why not just let it go?
We'll agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

You asked for proof, I posted it for the second time.
And yet you say that I am not open to discussion?
You didn't take the time, nor make the effort, to comment on any of the links posted. Likely because you didn't read a single one.
So really...
Who isn't open to discussion?

What I am not open to is spinning my wheels when it is evident that you aren't even reading my posts in their entirety, nor looking to debate at all.
Your arguments are specious at best.
You are dismissive in the face of posted facts.
And you attempt to reduce the discussion to 'feelings' and 'emotions', because you failed to make your point.

Again, why not end the discussion here nice and neatly?

mdterp01
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:13 PM
Let them continue to be up her ass. It makes each time Serena humiliates her that much more special!!!

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:21 PM
:spit:
I highly doubt that "little kiddies" looking for fapping material would EVER search for Serena Williams honestly. I mean, why? :shrug: :tape:

Not saying she doesn't have an amazing body, she does... just in the "Dove Campaign for Real Beauty" type of way, not in the, you know, actually sexually attractive type of way.Everyone has their own version and inclination of what defines beauty. And the Euro-centric version is not the only one.

Serena is beautiful, sexy, voluptuous, and attractive, even to many White males.
She's even dated a White director.


The DOVE Beauty Campaign is based primarily on the White Euro-centric version of beauty. So you'll have to do better than that. ;)

The fact is, many men prefer meat on their women's bones, and plump hips to rest an arm on. Plus, I've had "skinny" and that shit is PAINFUL!!... on the pelvis. :hysteric:

perseus2006
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:23 PM
Good Lord, where in the fack do you people come from!!!

You might as well go back to calling the Williams Sisters gorillias, that was the favorite saying when they came on the scene and started winning. But, my point is where in the fack do you people come from?

I watched Jackie Robinson the first time on the field, oy yeah, and I am that old. The same level and reason hate that was displayed then, is displayed now. Your post REEKS with it..

No bother replying we have seen your card..:lol:

I am sure that you encouraged your granddaughters to act just like Serenka with her teammates and officials. I said nothing about Serenka, only her documented behavior.

I get a good look at your card, too. Denial, denial, denial! I come from organizing neighborhood sports teams and leagues. My annoyance comes from having to eliminate kids for emulating bad behavior. It is a very painful thing to have to do.

Ntosake
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:23 PM
RVD, LBV,

Excellent discourse here, authentic efforts on both sides. I can identify with a lot of what RVD said, and by the same token I can relate to where LBV is coming from. Much respect to the both of you.

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:28 PM
RVD, LBV,

Excellent discourse here, authentic efforts on both sides. I can identify with a lot of what RVD said, and by the same token I can relate to where LBV is coming from. Much respect to the both of you.Thank you Ntosake. Much respect to you as well. :cool:

RVD
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:35 PM
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/833/Default.aspx



RVD, I respect your opinion, but you're off base here. Mainstream America loves Serena, even more than they do Maria. This poll was taken for a time period during which Serena wasn't even playing tennis, and she STILL comes out on top.Poll are simply a snapshot of a particular (read...specific) point in time. They are an accurate indicator ONLY if the poll is universal. That is why political polls are fast disposable 'biased' fodder. :)

However, it's all good.
If folks want to believe that Serena is "embraced" by the general American public, then so be it.

I won't argue to point any further. :angel:

blackandblue
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:42 PM
Poll are simply a snapshot of a particular (read...specific) point in time. They are an accurate indicator ONLY if the poll is universal. That is why political polls are fast disposable 'biased' fodder. :)

However, it's all good.
If folks want to believe that Serena is "embraced" by the general American public, then so be it.

I won't argue to point any further. :angel:

Serena has been in the top 2 eight consecutive years. That's more than a "snapshot".

Do you have a problem with the poll methodology?

Being well liked doesn't mean everyone likes you. Sharapova and Serena are simultaneously the two most liked and two most disliked players on this forum, for example. You're letting the negative noise warp your perception of the support she receives.

Stamp Paid
Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:47 PM
One last time about Google.

It cannot be used as a 'popularity index'.
So why are you stuck on that?
It is simply a search engine.
A starting point, if you will.

And even if we did include Google as a social indicator, are you suggesting that far more people in America conducted searches on Serena due to her popularity?
Sure, after her Olympics Gold success, I agree. But what about over the course of her entire career; which again, is the context of my original post? You can even sum it up as:
"America's Relationship With Serena Williams".

Secondly, how does one separate Worldwide searches and searches conducted by Americans?
If you know of a way, then by all means, demonstrate it.

Sir. Did YOU click the links? The link I posted was EXCLUSIVELY US Google searches. It even separated it by US CITY!! Serena is searched most in Baltimore, DC, and Atlanta. :tears: I am posting the link again just in case you didn't see it the first time.

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+maria+sharapova&date=all&geo=usa&ctab=0&sort=0&sa=N

And again, I don't care about the rest of the world.
I am talking specifically about A-MER-I-CA!!
*sigh*
Can we PLEASE confine this to the context of my original post?!

Btw, "marketability" isn't always an index based upon positive popularity of in individual. And though you agreed, you still insist on using it to support your argument?
Really?

OK, so if popularity (as defined by google searches in the US) + marketability (as measured and scored by an independent, US-based marketing firm) isn't a good measure for how "embraced" Serena is, will you please propose a logical counter-measure? How can I objectively determine how embraced Serena is? I am not satisfied with just taking your word for it/a few spurious blog postings.

The media owns Blogs as well. Or didn't you know that?
There are expert analysis Blogs, news Blogs, Sports Blogs, etc...
It's all a part of the media.
Did you even read one single link?
The links even lead to other credible sources.
I ask because you didn't so much as comment on a single one.Of course. Blogs are media, by definition. Lets look at each of the links you posted then.

http://newblackman.blogspot.com/2012/01/serena-williams-and-politics-of-haters.html - This is Professor/Black Intellectual Mark Anthony Neal's personal blog, and he posted this critical analysis done by critical scholar David J. Leonard. As a scholar and pundit, this is his analysis of how Serena is perceived. However, this is just his critical analysis of some awful articles written by the tennis press (specifically Bodo and Chris Chase). However, it is not an empirical, data driven analysis of Serena's favorability among the American public. It is merely his critical reflection on how he feels Serena is perceived, and the larger context of what it means. He's entitled to his opinion, that doesn't make his assertions factual.

http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874 - Okay, like for real. What is www.voote.com? :lol: Its not Pew, its not Associated Press, or a professional polling agency. This is some low quality website where I can design my own poll right now If I wanted to, and it has basically no online presence.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/01/04/why-doesnt-serena-williams-love-tennis/- this is a blog run by Time, the only source you posted that could actually be integrated into a meta-analysis of how America perceives Serena. But this was actually an even-handed article from a major press source! Did you read it? It initially questions why Serena said what she did, then it provides a larger context that actually would make a lay reader understand where Serena was coming from, dealing with the grind of sacrifices that tennis requires.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/about/ - Womens tennis blog - this is run by a 28 year old woman in Novi Sad, Serbia who runs it as a hobby. This is not even run by an American. :tears:

Another cope-out paragraph.
Dude, why not just let it go?
We'll agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

You asked for proof, I posted it for the second time.
And yet you say that I am not open to discussion?
You didn't take the time, nor make the effort, to comment on any of the links posted. Likely because you didn't read a single one.
So really...
Who isn't open to discussion?

What I am not open to is spinning my wheels when it is evident that you aren't even reading looking to debate at all.
Your arguments are specious at best.
You are dismissive in the face of posted facts.
And you attempt to reduce the discussion to 'feelings' and 'emotions', because you failed to make your point.

Again, why not end the discussion here nice and neatly?You have no proof, you have no data, you have nothing measurable. The thrust behind your argument is your basically own personal life experiences, combined with a few spurious blog postings. I am not convinced, and any critical thinker would not be convinced either. I normally would just agree to disagree, but no. It is important for these posters on this site to know that the reception that Serena receives in these mostly upper class white, Republican-dominated, American tennis circles is NOT representative of the reception that she receives by Americans at-large. By several quantitative and qualitative measures, she is the most popular female athlete in the United States, and it is well-deserved.

TrollPova
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:04 AM
It's funny, I don't think there's ever been a bigger gulf between the commentators and the fans. The crowd never roots for Sharapova, tennis fans generally think she is an unlikeable, boring, robotic cheating twat. But commentators are all about Maria!

Honestly though commentators get paid to promote the sport, the higher the ratings the more they get paid, the more they talk up their manly ass glamazon girl, the more people they hope will watch. :tape:

BTW even Chanda Rubin and her male co-commentator on USO Live were up her ass. :tape:

You, my friend, are delusional. Seek help

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Serena has been in the top 2 eight consecutive years. That's more than a "snapshot".

Do you have a problem with the poll methodology?

Being well liked doesn't mean everyone likes you. Sharapova and Serena are simultaneously the two most liked and two most disliked players on this forum, for example. You're letting the negative noise warp your perception of the support she receives.Actually, I do, because the vast majority aren't true indicators.

Please don't do that. Don't say stuff like I'm letting the negative noise warp my perception, because it isn't true at all. And we don't have to devolve to that point.

Do you know what "Embrace" means?

I think we're talking about two very different things here---

"Popularity" & "Embrace".

You can be popular and not be embraced.

blackandblue
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:23 AM
Actually, I do, because the vast majority aren't true indicators.

Please don't do that. Don't say stuff like I'm letting the negative noise warp my perception, because it isn't true at all. And we don't have to devolve to that point.

Do you know what "Embrace" means?

I think we're talking about two very different things here---

"Popularity" & "Embrace".

You can be popular and not be embraced.

What professional athlete is is embraced by Americans then, in your opinion?

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:24 AM
Sir. Did YOU click the links? The link I posted was EXCLUSIVELY US Google searches. It even separated it by US CITY!! Serena is searched most in Baltimore, DC, and Atlanta. :tears: I am posting the link again just in case you didn't see it the first time.

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=serena+williams,+maria+sharapova&date=all&geo=usa&ctab=0&sort=0&sa=N



OK, so if popularity (as defined by google searches in the US) + marketability (as measured and scored by an independent, US-based marketing firm) isn't a good measure for how "embraced" Serena is, will you please propose a logical counter-measure? How can I objectively determine how embraced Serena is? I am not satisfied with just taking your word for it/a few spurious blog postings.

Of course. Blogs are media, by definition. Lets look at each of the links you posted then.

http://newblackman.blogspot.com/2012/01/serena-williams-and-politics-of-haters.html - This is Professor/Black Intellectual Mark Anthony Neal's personal blog, and he posted this critical analysis done by critical scholar David J. Leonard. As a scholar and pundit, this is his analysis of how Serena is perceived. However, this is just his critical analysis of some awful articles written by the tennis press (specifically Bodo and Chris Chase). However, it is not an empirical, data driven analysis of Serena's favorability among the American public. It is merely his critical reflection on how he feels Serena is perceived, and the larger context of what it means. He's entitled to his opinion, that doesn't make his assertions factual.

http://www.voote.com/jsp/WAppServerPage.jsp?TransID=RVOTES00&VoteID=10874 - Okay, like for real. What is www.voote.com? :lol: Its not Pew, its not Associated Press, or a professional polling agency. This is some low quality website where I can design my own poll right now If I wanted to, and it has basically no online presence.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/01/04/why-doesnt-serena-williams-love-tennis/- this is a blog run by Time, the only source you posted that could actually be integrated into a meta-analysis of how America perceives Serena. But this was actually an even-handed article from a major press source! Did you read it? It initially questions why Serena said what she did, then it provides a larger context that actually would make a lay reader understand where Serena was coming from, dealing with the grind of sacrifices that tennis requires.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/about/ - Womens tennis blog - this is run by a 28 year old woman in Novi Sad, Serbia who runs it as a hobby. This is not even run by an American. :tears:

You have no proof, you have no data, you have nothing measurable. The thrust behind your argument is your basically own personal life experiences, combined with a few spurious blog postings. I am not convinced, and any critical thinker would not be convinced either. I normally would just agree to disagree, but no. It is important for these posters on this site to know that the reception that Serena receives in these mostly upper class white, Republican-dominated, American tennis circles is NOT representative of the reception that she receives by Americans at-large. By several quantitative and qualitative measures, she is the most popular female athlete in the United States, and it is well-deserved.*sigh*
Yes LBV, I clicked on your links.
Even said that I bookmarked one.

The Links I posted were simply examples.
However, point taken about the Serbia blog.
The one I had listed was not the one I intended to post.
But I'll take the hit on that one.

But questions for you:

Are "Embrace" and "Popularity" identical?

If not, then what is the difference?

Lastly,
Can a person be liked and popular, but not embraced?

Sorry, will return soon.
Going out to hit the courts with my son. :)

PhilePhile
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:29 AM
What professional athlete is is embraced by Americans then, in your opinion?

I'll guess ... Lance Armstrong, for example.

acetoace
Sep 4th, 2012, 12:59 AM
RVD, LBV,

Excellent discourse here, authentic efforts on both sides. I can identify with a lot of what RVD said, and by the same token I can relate to where LBV is coming from. Much respect to the both of you.


Same here! By far and away, the best discuss of the day on GM. Solid points on both sides. Informative and educative! RESPECT:worship:

os400
Sep 4th, 2012, 01:02 AM
i think serena williams's fans are mostly US people.. but Maria Sharapova's fans are more global.. tennis fan around the world usually root / fan of their own country's player... (aslo why serena is huge in US)

but casual people who never watch tennis know about sharapova's name and face, but they dont know serena.. especially outside USA..

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2012, 01:14 AM
*sigh*
Yes LBV, I clicked on your links.
Even said that I bookmarked one.

The Links I posted were simply examples.
However, point taken about the Serbia blog.
The one I had listed was not the one I intended to post.
But I'll take the hit on that one.

But questions for you:

Are "Embrace" and "Popularity" identical?

If not, then what is the difference?

Lastly,
Can a person be liked and popular, but not embraced?

Sorry, will return soon.
Going out to hit the courts with my son. :)Embraced is a very abstract, subjective concept. Being "embraced" means something different to every person. From what I can determine, the tennis community has historically been hostile and is now ambivalent towards her, but the general American public does embrace her. She wouldn't be the most popular female athlete in the US if she wasn't.

pav
Sep 4th, 2012, 01:17 AM
Haven't read the whole thread but heard one of the shits going on how organised and meticulous she is when she saunters down to the wall and fucks around while the server is standing there looking pissed off. I've been waiting for someone to serve one right into her tensed up ass for years ,but no she just controls things.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:26 AM
Poll are simply a snapshot of a particular (read...specific) point in time. They are an accurate indicator ONLY if the poll is universal. That is why political polls are fast disposable 'biased' fodder. :)

However, it's all good.
If folks want to believe that Serena is "embraced" by the general American public, then so be it.

I won't argue to point any further. :angel:And on this note, what is a universal poll? Do you mean a poll that is taken from a representative sample? There is more than one way to poll/survey a population acccurately and effectively, polling a representative sample is just one way. The methodology for this poll is sound, with responses being weighted differently according to their actual US population correlates. A summary of the methodology is included after the data.

Methodology

This Harris Poll was conducted online within the United States June 13 to 20, 2011 among 2,163 adults (aged 18 and over). Figures for age, sex, race/ethnicity, education, region and household income were weighted where necessary to bring them into line with their actual proportions in the population. Propensity score weighting was also used to adjust for respondents' propensity to be online.

All sample surveys and polls, whether or not they use probability sampling, are subject to multiple sources of error which are most often not possible to quantify or estimate, including sampling error, coverage error, error associated with nonresponse, error associated with question wording and response options, and post-survey weighting and adjustments. Therefore, Harris Interactive avoids the words "margin of error" as they are misleading. All that can be calculated are different possible sampling errors with different probabilities for pure, unweighted, random samples with 100% response rates. These are only theoretical because no published polls come close to this ideal.

Respondents for this survey were selected from among those who have agreed to participate in Harris Interactive surveys. The data have been weighted to reflect the composition of the adult population. Because the sample is based on those who agreed to participate in the Harris Interactive panel, no estimates of theoretical sampling error can be calculated.

Are you gonna defy the statistics and every other scientific method? In regards to surveys being only a "snapshot", this Harris survey shows longitudinal data! it shows rankings for every year since 2004!
http://i49.tinypic.com/5k0sb8.jpg
You have the right to believe what you want, but its dangerous to go around expressing your own erroneous feelings and intuitions as "fact".

ziros
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:45 AM
Um,believe it or not the opinions of this tennis forum do not reflect the world view. In the real world,most people who know of Maria like her...

NashaMasha
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:57 AM
I've been waiting for someone to serve one right into her tensed up ass for years ,but no she just controls things.

it will be 0-15 for a server. or DQ if it's intentionally

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 05:59 AM
Okay, I taught college level Op Amp theory, and I learned very quickly that sometimes it’s better to break things down to its most basic components when conveying a thought, idea, theory, or technical application(s). That said, I will attempt to do just that very thing here, in hopes of achieving a minute, or miniscule, fraction of success.

1) This is all being made out to be more complex than it actually is.
2) The “context” of my post appears to have morphed during the discussion, so I will endeavor to once again bring it into back into context.
3) I will use a very easy to follow formula so that there is no misconstruing what I wrote and the idea that I put forth



The following data is taken directly from the United States Census Bureau:
Race Distribution
The overwhelming majority (97 percent) of the total U.S. population reported only one race in 2010. This group totaled 299.7 million. Of these, the largest group reported white alone (223.6 million), accounting for 72 percent of all people living in the United States. The black or African-American population totaled 38.9 million and represented 13 percent of the total population.
http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/operations/cb11-cn125.html
The largest majority of the US population is composed of White Americans @ 72%.
While Black or African-Americans account for 13%.
When marketing a brand (tennis is a considered a brand), advertisers and sponsors obviously target the largest segment of society or segment of the population.
In this case White Americans.
No big deal, it’s all about business and profits.
Now when you have a Blue-eyed Blond haired willowy female (Sharapova) in competition with a Chocolate skinned, brown eyed, voluptuous, athletic female (Serena), who is more likely to appeal to the majority?

The answer is the “Blue-eyed Blond haired willowy female”.
No big deal. It’s only business.

Now both can be VERY popular, and evenly liked.
However, the Blond haired Blue eyed female will be embraced and fully accepted because the majority of Americans can “relate” to her.
They LOOK like her. Like who she likes. And likely have similar tastes in men, fashion, cuisine, etc…

This entire dynamic extends to sports as well.
This is why polls are a poor indicator.
Sure you can use them to ‘sway’ opinion(s), but the truth is closer to ‘social-ethnicity’ and culture.

No big deal.
Remember, it’s just business.

Taken a bit further…

Sharapova is Russian and represented Russia at the Olympics, and earned a Silver medal.
Serena is American born, represented America, and brought home two Golds for America. (btw, Serena and Venus have amassed 8 total Gold medals for America)
Serena is a 14 Slam title holder and holds the record for single most ACEs in a slam; and even broke her own record (at Wimbledon).
She has actually accumulated far more Slam titles if you count her Doubles and Mixed Doubles titles.
She has represented America in Fed Cup, volunteers her time with American charitable organizations (OWL, and others), and has created significant and popular product lines (of American made products) that she sells on HSN (Home Shopping Network)…an American-based television network. She walks the red carpet in Hollywood, and has ‘guested’ on several TV series. Serena has even dated White director, Brett Ratner …http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0711840/

Even with all of that, she is still not as embraced by the general American public like Sharapova is.
Yes, they are both popular and well known.
But who gets the majority of sponsors?
Who do the AMERICAN commentators extol and laud until you feel like puking?
Whose image do we see most often of when tennis is advertised?

Personally, I adore Serena!!
She’s the absolute female, IMHO.
That body…confidence…outward emotion & passion…drive & tenacity to win…
That overwhelming courage to overcome adversity and death and return as a slam winner and Olympic champion.

Now, I ask you LBV, is Serena embraced and given her just dues, as a White American athlete would receive, taken into account such incredible accomplishments and achievements?
If you can answer “yes”, then I am wrong and stand corrected and will concede the argument.

And let’s dispense with the “Embraced is a very abstract, subjective concept” shall we?
It isn’t subjective or abstract at all.
It is easily discernible and quantified through advertisements, media, Sponsors, forgiveness of past sins, and full outright support at home in your own back yard (US Open Slam tourney) to that of foreign players.

And lastly,
You do not "... have to separate the American tennis community from America at large."
Why would you have to?
What purpose would it serve, when I'm referring to "America"?

With that, I humble await your reply.

Cosmic Voices
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:36 AM
Omg I've learnt so many global statistics in this thread :hysteric:

os400
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:51 AM
sharapova transcend tennis.. people who dont watch tennis know sharapova , all around the WORLD..

serena great athlete and famous only in USA.. her brand / advertisement seems to be geared for US consumption (mostly)

race have nothing to do with her fame , sharapova's fan is all race all age all gender..

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2012, 02:40 PM
The following data is taken directly from the United States Census Bureau:

The largest majority of the US population is composed of White Americans @ 72%.
While Black or African-Americans account for 13%.
When marketing a brand (tennis is a considered a brand), advertisers and sponsors obviously target the largest segment of society or segment of the population.
In this case White Americans.
No big deal, it’s all about business and profits.
Now when you have a Blue-eyed Blond haired willowy female (Sharapova) in competition with a Chocolate skinned, brown eyed, voluptuous, athletic female (Serena), who is more likely to appeal to the majority?

The answer is the “Blue-eyed Blond haired willowy female”.
No big deal. It’s only business.

Now both can be VERY popular, and evenly liked.
However, the Blond haired Blue eyed female will be embraced and fully accepted because the majority of Americans can “relate” to her.
They LOOK like her. Like who she likes. And likely have similar tastes in men, fashion, cuisine, etc…
To be clear, this is your theory. It is not factually or empirically driven, it is driven by your own personal experiences with race. That definitely makes it meaningful to you, but that does not make it fact.

It is not a given that a blonde, green eyed (Sharapova has green eyes) white athlete will automatically be embraced and accepted more than a black athlete under every circumstance. There are tons of white people who love the Williams Sisters and would not root for Sharapova over them, as we can see on this board alone. White people are not a monolith, just like black people are not a monolith. Do all black people automatically embrace Serena because they can "relate" to her? Hell no! All white people don't automatically embrace Sharapova either.

Race is an important social construction and is definitely crucial in any analysis of the United States, but you must also take class and gender considerations into account. For example, a 30 year old, lower income white woman in Atlanta is not going to necessarily connect more with Maria Sharapova just because they share the same skin color. Knowing Serena's background and struggle, she may connect with Serena more because she knows Serena grew up poor like her, and became a superstar. Race does not always supersede every aspect of a person's life, there are also gender, age, and class distinctions that come into play in people's decision making processes about who they can or can't relate to.

This entire dynamic extends to sports as well.
This is why polls are a poor indicator.
Sure you can use them to ‘sway’ opinion(s), but the truth is closer to ‘social-ethnicity’ and culture.

No big deal.
Remember, it’s just business.

Taken a bit further…

Sharapova is Russian and represented Russia at the Olympics, and earned a Silver medal.
Serena is American born, represented America, and brought home two Golds for America. (btw, Serena and Venus have amassed 8 total Gold medals for America)
Serena is a 14 Slam title holder and holds the record for single most ACEs in a slam; and even broke her own record (at Wimbledon).
She has actually accumulated far more Slam titles if you count her Doubles and Mixed Doubles titles.
She has represented America in Fed Cup, volunteers her time with American charitable organizations (OWL, and others), and has created significant and popular product lines (of American made products) that she sells on HSN (Home Shopping Network)…an American-based television network. She walks the red carpet in Hollywood, and has ‘guested’ on several TV series. Serena has even dated White director, Brett Ratner …http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0711840/

Even with all of that, she is still not as embraced by the general American public like Sharapova is.
Yes, they are both popular and well known.
But who gets the majority of sponsors?
Who do the AMERICAN commentators extol and laud until you feel like puking?
Whose image do we see most often of when tennis is advertised?

Personally, I adore Serena!!
She’s the absolute female, IMHO.
That body…confidence…outward emotion & passion…drive & tenacity to win…
That overwhelming courage to overcome adversity and death and return as a slam winner and Olympic champion.

Now, I ask you LBV, is Serena embraced and given her just dues, as a White American athlete would receive, taken into account such incredible accomplishments and achievements?
If you can answer “yes”, then I am wrong and stand corrected and will concede the argument.

And let’s dispense with the “Embraced is a very abstract, subjective concept” shall we?
It isn’t subjective or abstract at all.
It is easily discernible and quantified through advertisements, media, Sponsors, forgiveness of past sins, and full outright support at home in your own back yard (US Open Slam tourney) to that of foreign players.

And lastly,
You do not "... have to separate the American tennis community from America at large."
Why would you have to?
What purpose would it serve, when I'm referring to "America"?

With that, I humble await your reply.Trust me, I know all that Serena has accomplished, as she is my Queen, and personal Lord and Saviour. :lol:
But I am not convinced that she is not embraced by the American public. She is a bonafide superstar inside and outside of tennis circles. And like I mentioned before, the majority of Sharapova's non-Nike endorsements are in Asia and Europe, NOT the United States. Serena lives a fabulous lifestyle, has made hundreds of millions of dollars. She doesn't receive her just due in tennis circles, but the fact that she has been consistently voted the most popular female athlete in the United States shows that she is received well by most Americans across all demographics.

You say that "embraced" is not a subjective term, but yes it is! You basically are trying to argue about how "loved" Serena is, specifically by white American people. Love is an emotion that is different depending on the individual and cannot be measured or quantified, its not logical and there is no way to argue it. I have given you independent, scientific, empirical data in terms of Serena's sponsorship potential, her popularity, etc. and you have countered it with your own personal theories/feelings that are grounded in your own life experiences, but not in any objective data. You have not given me one opinion poll, one marketing report, nothing scientific that would ground the idea that Serena is less embraced than Sharapova. These are all just your personal feelings.

This debate with you reminds me of that other thread in which I was providing scientific data to explain to you that race is not a biological distinction, but a social-cultural construction. You wouldn't budge on your beliefs because you were so stuck to your own personal, "commonsensical" notions about how the world works that you refused to accept anything that challenged those notions. The same thing that is going on here, you are like the ostrich with his head in the sand. I have presented you with factual data, not just my own subjective opinions, and you are still unconvinced and arguing from your emotions. There is nothing more I can say really, you don't want to challenge yourself to think "Maybe the way I thought it was isn't exactly how it is".

lizchris
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:07 PM
That's how it's been since Wimbledon 2004. Don't even get me started with Dick Enberg, he's on her vag like there's no tomorrow.
Al Trautwig is worse

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:54 PM
i think serena williams's fans are mostly US people.. but Maria Sharapova's fans are more global.. tennis fan around the world usually root / fan of their own country's player... (aslo why serena is huge in US)

but casual people who never watch tennis know about sharapova's name and face, but they dont know serena.. especially outside USA..

this is false for the US. it is the other way around.

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:23 PM
To be clear, this is your theory. It is not factually or empirically driven, it is driven by your own personal experiences with race. That definitely makes it meaningful to you, but that does not make it fact.

It is not a given that a blonde, green eyed (Sharapova has green eyes) white athlete will automatically be embraced and accepted more than a black athlete under every circumstance. There are tons of white people who love the Williams Sisters and would not root for Sharapova over them, as we can see on this board alone. White people are not a monolith, just like black people are not a monolith. Do all black people automatically embrace Serena because they can "relate" to her? Hell no! All white people don't automatically embrace Sharapova either.

Race is an important social construction and is definitely crucial in any analysis of the United States, but you must also take class and gender considerations into account. For example, a 30 year old, lower income white woman in Atlanta is not going to necessarily connect more with Maria Sharapova just because they share the same skin color. Knowing Serena's background and struggle, she may connect with Serena more because she knows Serena grew up poor like her, and became a superstar. Race does not always supersede every aspect of a person's life, there are also gender, age, and class distinctions that come into play in people's decision making processes about who they can or can't relate to.

Trust me, I know all that Serena has accomplished, as she is my Queen, and personal Lord and Saviour. :lol:
But I am not convinced that she is not embraced by the American public. She is a bonafide superstar inside and outside of tennis circles. And like I mentioned before, the majority of Sharapova's non-Nike endorsements are in Asia and Europe, NOT the United States. Serena lives a fabulous lifestyle, has made hundreds of millions of dollars. She doesn't receive her just due in tennis circles, but the fact that she has been consistently voted the most popular female athlete in the United States shows that she is received well by most Americans across all demographics.

You say that "embraced" is not a subjective term, but yes it is! You basically are trying to argue about how "loved" Serena is, specifically by white American people. Love is an emotion that is different depending on the individual and cannot be measured or quantified, its not logical and there is no way to argue it. I have given you independent, scientific, empirical data in terms of Serena's sponsorship potential, her popularity, etc. and you have countered it with your own personal theories/feelings that are grounded in your own life experiences, but not in any objective data. You have not given me one opinion poll, one marketing report, nothing scientific that would ground the idea that Serena is less embraced than Sharapova. These are all just your personal feelings.

This debate with you reminds me of that other thread in which I was providing scientific data to explain to you that race is not a biological distinction, but a social-cultural construction. You wouldn't budge on your beliefs because you were so stuck to your own personal, "commonsensical" notions about how the world works that you refused to accept anything that challenged those notions. The same thing that is going on here, you are like the ostrich with his head in the sand. I have presented you with factual data, not just my own subjective opinions, and you are still unconvinced and arguing from your emotions. There is nothing more I can say really, you don't want to challenge yourself to think "Maybe the way I thought it was isn't exactly how it is".Actually, that’s ‘reality’...(and your first sentenced negated your entire argument)...

…and basic socialeconimic (practice), with a significant serving of History behind it.
'Social economics' may refer broadly to the "use of economics in the study of society."More narrowly, contemporary practice considers behavioral interactions of individuals and groups through social capital and social "markets"
To believe that opposite would be contrary to historical fact(s).

If you reside in the United States and enter any major (non-minority owned) grocery store, department store, clothing store, bank, Real Estate or corporate office, you will immediately notice White-American ownership, cultural influence, and control.
And again, this same influence and practice is seen in various “sports” (Golf, Hockey, Tennis, Surfing, Skiing, etc…). In other words, Tennis as a sport is still one of those heavily influenced by White culture, and they still prefer and push the White “brand”. This is the reason why Serena (and Venus) met with so much adversity. And also why Serena still isn’t “embraced” by the general population of White-Americans, in a country where they comprise 72% of the population.
They do not, and can not relate to her as they would someone White.

Whether they know her, or heard of her, or her incredible tennis records, the fact is, she is an outsider…a minority playing a yet and still White sport.

This exclusionary belief and practice is certainly changing in the sport of Tennis, but of course, there are still many who are resistant to that change; which is why American “politics” was an excellent analogy in an earlier post. And also why we read so many posters calling her gorilla, linebacker, ugly, etc. This board is simply a microcosm of the real world, including America.

To me, it sounds as if you are suggesting that White-Americans “embrace” Serena to the degree that she dominates magazine covers, sponsorship, ad placements (Billboards, TV commercials, major sports articles), and does so in a positive way.

I vehemently disagree.

Is Serena popular?
Absolutely!! Inside and outside of Tennis.

Is she embraced by the general American public which is comprised of 72% White-Americans?
Absolutely not.

Sweety Darling
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Maybe it's because Maria is a likable person, who doesn't go around threatening to ram tennis balls down peoples throats.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:45 PM
sharapova transcend tennis.. people who dont watch tennis know sharapova , all around the WORLD..

serena great athlete and famous only in USA.. her brand / advertisement seems to be geared for US consumption (mostly)

race have nothing to do with her fame , sharapova's fan is all race all age all gender..

The rest of the world comprises Asian.

It is well known that Asia (especially the men) prefer blondes.

In eastern Europe, people are not that friendly to blacks. All you have to do is check African football players reactions.


The issue of race is very personal, or cultural to people... so of course they will not come out and overtly state that as their reason for preferring Sharapova over Serena, despite Serena's accomplishments

tennisfan5
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:59 PM
Al Trautwig is worse

Al Trautwig is the worst everything. terrible commentator

Bijoux0021
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:02 PM
The rest of the world comprises Asian.

It is well known that Asia (especially the men) prefer blondes.

In eastern Europe, people are not that friendly to blacks. All you have to do is check African football players reactions.


The issue of race is very personal, or cultural to people... so of course they will not come out and overtly state that as their reason for preferring Sharapova over Serena, despite Serena's accomplishments
You hit the nail on the head.

Lucemferre
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:14 PM
Sharapova isn't the crowd favorite anywhere. She is more likable than Azarenka but these shrieking ball bashers are not popular. They are not respected either. Most men think they are jokes who can't serve which is true to a certain extent. Serena too isn't some crowd darling but she is much more respected (admittedly or not) because people know she can play tennis and that threatens the alpha male mentality. They want her to now her place i.e the kitchen :lol: OK that's exaggeration on my part but the point is when she destroys her competition, they bring up men to condemn her. She is either almost a man herself or wouldn't even win a game from any men in the top 500 etc.

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:39 PM
The rest of the world comprises Asian.

It is well known that Asia (especially the men) prefer blondes.

In eastern Europe, people are not that friendly to blacks. All you have to do is check African football players reactions.


The issue of race is very personal, or cultural to people... so of course they will not come out and overtly state that as their reason for preferring Sharapova over Serena, despite Serena's accomplishmentsWhich is another the reason no "empirical" data exists.

What culture or ethnicity, that wields the majority of power, would undermine its own power with negative data?

That's why I sit here and chuckle when people ask me to show them the evidence.

The fact is, the "evidence" is right in front of their face...each and every day. And History is an excellent source for what isn't "empirically" documented.

This is not rocket science.
However, it is thought-provoking.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Which is another the reason no "empirical" data exists.

What culture or ethnicity, that wields the majority of power, would undermine its own power with negative data?

That's why I sit here and chuckle when people ask me to show them the evidence.

The fact is, the "evidence" is right in front of their face...each and every day. And History is an excellent source for what isn't "empirically" documented.

This is not rocket science.
However, it is thought-provoking.

Some times, as a retort, I asked these disingenuous skeptics to ask older people in their own family how they feel about other cultures, darker races.

Because it is very easy to exonerate oneself because you engage people of all races (with civility) and cultures on a Tennis Forum, but some the values we internalize come from our environment in formative years. And we spend that time with uncles, aunts , grand parents and of course parents.

Tennis Fool
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:49 PM
Al Trautwig is the worst everything. terrible commentator
He must be the low bid announcer. No other reason why he's so ubiquitous.

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:53 PM
Sharapova isn't the crowd favorite anywhere. She is more likable than Azarenka but these shrieking ball bashers are not popular. They are not respected either. Most men think they are jokes who can't serve which is true to a certain extent. Serena too isn't some crowd darling but she is much more respected (admittedly or not) because people know she can play tennis and that threatens the alpha male mentality. They want her to now her place i.e the kitchen :lol: OK that's exaggeration on my part but the point is when she destroys her competition, they bring up men to condemn her. She is either almost a man herself or wouldn't even win a game from any men in the top 500 etc.Right.
And attempt to diminish her accomplishments.

When she demonstrated self-confidence, people called it arrogance.

When she held her finger up as a gesture of #1, people berated her, until she made good on the gesture.

When she returned from knee surgery and dropped to to lowest she'd ever been ranked, she won AO...all chubby seemingly and out of condition and not match-ready.

When people said that she was done and that the new up-and-comers had caught up to her or passed her, she improved her overall game and started defeating the top players. Then the new generation was suddenly called 'garbage' or 'Generation Suck'.

When she suddenly improved her 1st serve percentage and dropped her UEs, suddenly she was termed a "serve-bot", and that it was "unfair" to the other WTA players. People even said that she should be playing in the ATP.
That last one, even I don't understand.

Why people refuse to give her respect for her accomplishments isn't that much of a mystery at all. And not all of it has to do with racism either. Some simply can't, or refuse, to relate to her on a personal level, due to their own personal prejudices, bigotry, personality, character, or even her body shape. :rolleyes: :help:

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:56 PM
He must be the low bid announcer. No other reason why he's so ubiquitous.
He is essentially a gymnastic and ice skating guy, especially in the Olympics sport known for manufactured drama.

He also does cycling and triathlon with the never ending of personal stories and overcoming odds

He is doing his best to create similar scripts in tennis.

RVD
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:07 PM
Some times, as a retort, I asked these disingenuous skeptics to ask older people in their own family how they feel about other cultures, darker races.

Because it is very easy to exonerate oneself because you engage people of all races (with civility) and cultures on a Tennis Forum, but some the values we internalize come from our environment in formative years. And we spend that time with uncles, aunts , grand parents and of course parents.Agreed.
We are shaped by our environment.
That means, to some significant degree, our parent's values are ours as well when we are very young. It only changes when we engage others and discuss differing point of views.

My best friend ever is a White skin-head looking dude who did various unmentionable jobs for the government. And as you can well imagine, we discuss cultural and race-related topics all the time.
Four years ago, I told him that racism is still VERY strong in America, and he got pissed off and said that I just needed to get over "racism".
Then, these White teens driving past us in a sedan threw a bottle of some sort of smelly fluid at us...just missing him.

He was quiet for the rest of our walk.
The next day he said, "I FUCKING HATE when you're right." and we just laughed afterwards.
However, from that day on, he completely changed his attitude and belief towards racism, because at that point he also became a target, victim, or recipient of it.
Btw, he's originally from Colorado. :)