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Fantasy Hero
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:25 PM
Angie :hearts: woke up with a great news :inlove:

tkutsaar
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:41 PM
I'm a casual Venus fan, but Venus had just too many errors. She really needs to play high percentage shots more often. It doesn't take over hitting to finish a point. All that said, this is a nice start for Venus in slams. She can learn a lot from this. I'm actually glad she lost, because she shouldn't have that many unnecessary errors and win. It overshadows the amazing potential she still possesses.

Forgive me but does this really make sense? Isnít Venus about the oldest player in the draw aside from Date? Has she not won some slams? This comment seems to suggest that Venus is a novice still needing to acquire some more skills before she can compete effectively in slams.

MakarovaFan
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:47 PM
It's a bit funny that people keep saying how Kerber could barely beat a sub par Venus with 60 errors +16 double faults getting pushed to 62 57 75 and with a few less mistakes/not choking, Venus should have won 63/64 in the third yet fail to realize that is was Kerber who was 2 points away from a very routine 62 64 win...

Larrybidd
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:56 PM
It's a bit funny that people keep saying how Kerber could barely beat a sub par Venus with 60 errors +16 double faults getting pushed to 62 57 75 and with a few less mistakes/not choking, Venus should have won 63/64 in the third yet fail to realize that is was Kerber who was 2 points away from a very routine 62 64 win...

It would have only been routine because her opponent not only could make a serve, but she couldn't make an overhead either. Venus wasn't just sub-par, she was horrible.

Larrybidd
Aug 31st, 2012, 10:14 PM
On the subject of strategy: Venus making balls?? When has she ever done that? She even said she was proud she 'went for gold' on the last return :tape: and did not just push the ball back. Like whatever, it was an ugly ugly error, like about 59 other errors in the last 2 1/2 hours. One's gotta learn sometime. If she'd won the match by pushing a few balls back when she had Kerber on the ropes, everyone would have praised her for her mental endurance and smartness in recognizing the moment. Now she is commiserated with because she lost a match the same way she has lost a zillion other matches in her career, because 'she made errors'.

Venus cannot push. In order to push you have to have some top spin on your shots. Venus doesn't. And that's alright, she can still dominate on hard courts and grass. You can no more make Venus be a part-time pusher than you can make make ASV a serve and volley-er. It's not what she can do. A better strategy, FOR VENUS, when she is this wild of the ground is to just get to the net at any opportunity. That actually worked for Venus, and was the only reason the match was close. Again where she needs to dial it back is with the serve. Venus has to realize that not everybody can return serve like Serena. She can take something off the 1st serve (like she did in doubles today) and remain in the point most of the time with most players.

P.S. I do agree with you on that last return tho. When a player is serving for the match or set, you have to get the return in play and make them hit some balls.

Rest Maria!
Aug 31st, 2012, 10:30 PM
It's a bit funny that people keep saying how Kerber could barely beat a sub par Venus with 60 errors +16 double faults
Hold right there. Double faults are unforced errors, therefore it's 60UEs including 16DFs, not 60UEs+16DFs.

Matt01
Sep 1st, 2012, 12:18 AM
It would have only been routine because her opponent not only could make a serve, but she couldn't make an overhead either. Venus wasn't just sub-par, she was horrible.



She's been horrible for a while now and I don't think that's going to change anymore...

n1_and_uh_noone
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:02 AM
Venus cannot push. In order to push you have to have some top spin on your shots. Venus doesn't. And that's alright, she can still dominate on hard courts and grass. You can no more make Venus be a part-time pusher than you can make make ASV a serve and volley-er. It's not what she can do. A better strategy, FOR VENUS, when she is this wild of the ground is to just get to the net at any opportunity. That actually worked for Venus, and was the only reason the match was close. Again where she needs to dial it back is with the serve. Venus has to realize that not everybody can return serve like Serena. She can take something off the 1st serve (like she did in doubles today) and remain in the point most of the time with most players.

P.S. I do agree with you on that last return tho. When a player is serving for the match or set, you have to get the return in play and make them hit some balls.

You first need to put the ball before in court :lol:. Amd enough of the BS about nor being able to 'push'. Putting the ball in court is pushing? Why doesn't she push more creatively then? Slice, hit sharp angles etc, since just prolonging a point and not bombing out with your OWN error is considered so demeaning.

Any person with a sliver of brain would have seen Kerber was gobbling up pace and was struggling top do much when she was forced to generate her own.

I see it like this: clearly some players would rather live and die by the sword than do mundane things like win matches and progress deep into a Slam with the chance of (mayb) contending for it.

StoneRose
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:22 AM
You first need to put the ball before in court :lol:. Amd enough of the BS about nor being able to 'push'. Putting the ball in court is pushing? Why doesn't she push more creatively then? Slice, hit sharp angles etc, since just prolonging a point and not bombing out with your OWN error is considered so demeaning.

Any person with a sliver of brain would have seen Kerber was gobbling up pace and was struggling top do much when she was forced to generate her own.

I see it like this: clearly some players would rather live and die by the sword than do mundane things like win matches and progress deep into a Slam with the chance of (mayb) contending for it.Agree, most successful players have always the been the allround ones, the ones who can combine offense with defense and find middle ground there. Serena's is a prime example, very good serve and leans more to offense obviously but is pretty allround in all aspects of the game including defense. Venus is a very good player of course but it often looks a bit one dimensional.

laurie
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:25 AM
I'm watching the match I recorded overnight. I have to say I am absolutely amazed at some of the mistakes and wild errors Venus was making throughout the course of this match and the first set in particular. I don't think I've seen errors as wild as that over and over again, it was bizarre. Venus did incredibly well to almost win this match, her fighting qualities are still not in question.

cogent53
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:38 AM
I believe she's not been past the 2nd round in any of the slams this year and I have to say, she's been unlucky to draw Kerber so early here - THE form player on the tour right now. However, with a ranking so low, that's the luck of the draw I guess. Venus' attacking game can be more dominating than Serena's at times, but defensively? Oh dear.
Kerber was the worst sort of opponent for her as she can defend so well, and is hard to hit off the court, but Venus' errors just can't get her through. 60UEs=15 games, and Kerber won 18 games!

I have no idea whether Venus was serious in her comments about Rio in 4 years. She still looks good at times, but you'd think losing so early has to be disheartening. Maybe she's thinking of her doubles career, as her and Serena could probably focus on just that and win for the next 10 years!! :D

Patrick345
Sep 1st, 2012, 02:37 AM
I have no idea whether Venus was serious in her comments about Rio in 4 years. She still looks good at times, but you'd think losing so early has to be disheartening. Maybe she's thinking of her doubles career, as her and Serena could probably focus on just that and win for the next 10 years!! :D

Probably. Play the four Slams, Miami, Rome and maybe 3-4 more singles events a year and otherwise focus on doubles/mixed toward the Olympics.

southpawdragon
Sep 1st, 2012, 04:00 AM
Hopefully Venus health woes allows her atleast one slam where it stabilzes enough for her to make one final run atleast

reptar
Sep 1st, 2012, 05:07 AM
Nice oncourt interview Kerber! :D

Michalka
Sep 1st, 2012, 10:48 AM
i feel sorry for Venus but tbh she deserved to lose this match with 60 freaking UEs, she was a break up in the final set but just couldn't capitalize on it, she only has herself to blame for losing the match from a good position but at least she hung with Kerber, it wasn't a pretty match but sure an exciting one so well done to both ladies on that regard

angie shows us why she is knocking on the door of the top 5 :worship: very determined player

lloyders76
Sep 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM
I envy the people who didn't see this shitfest. Worst match at the USO since Chaky-Sveta 07. Ewwww.

Venus is a fighter but her form is starting to deteriorated to club-level at times. Serve bouncing before the net, lets a ball pass her by (3 feet inside the court) thinking its gonna be out. But the fact that Venus has beaten a few top ten players this year and was able to hang on to Kerber just shows the level of the top 10 players today.

Kerber is just another Wozniacki with more power. She just runs runs and runs..has no serve and no real weapons.

I wish I didn't see that match.



love this kind of exaggeration, terrible miss by venus, but try 3 cm

lloyders76
Sep 1st, 2012, 12:33 PM
Hopefully Venus health woes allows her atleast one slam where it stabilzes enough for her to make one final run atleast

it certainly looked like she wasn't physically there at the french and wimbledon, but at the olympics and us open, it didn't look like she could be much better physically,

she lost matches she had chances to win due to poor, inconsistent play, and mental weakness - and the ablility of her opponent to master those factors of the game, rather than her health woes

Rest Maria!
Sep 1st, 2012, 12:53 PM
i feel sorry for Venus but tbh she deserved to lose this match with 60 freaking UEs
Well she could win it if she made 57UEs, at 5-5 in the decider it doesn't matter how many errors you had made, it's about the performance in the final 2 games (and possibly a tiebreak). If she won with 57 freaking UEs, would she deserve to win? 57 is not much different from 60.

jrollaneres25
Sep 1st, 2012, 02:14 PM
2010 Semi all over again

Venus :facepalm:

Dramatic match though

Venus was 4-2 on final set noooooooooooooooooooooo

Venus was also 5-4 30-30....two points away from the 3rd round:sad:

Johnbert
Sep 1st, 2012, 02:28 PM
people acting like only venus choked. but it was angie who was up a break billion-times in the 2nd set and served for the match at 5-4. it was also obvious this wasn't angies best performance too. all this "what if" talk is ridiculous.

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 1st, 2012, 05:04 PM
Kerber is just another Wozniacki with more power. She just runs runs and runs..has no serve and no real weapons.

I wish I didn't see that match.
Foolishness!
A Wozniacki with more power would be formidable indeed and quite likely would've won a major by now. you sound like you don't know tennis at all.

Good gosh, I am saying this and I don't even like Wozniacki's style of play.

StoneRose
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:36 PM
people acting like only venus choked. but it was angie who was up a break billion-times in the 2nd set and served for the match at 5-4. it was also obvious this wasn't angies best performance too. all this "what if" talk is ridiculous.This, i felt Angie should have decided this in 2 sets, she didn't play particularly well and she let Venus back in.

bandabou
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:09 PM
The stubborness of Vee..is the reason she got stuck at 7 majors. have to adapt to the tour..nowadays all these girls can handle the hard hard stuff..you need to have a different strategy at times.

Foxy
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:26 PM
Venus needs a new coach who can bring a new perspective to her game and tennis legacy. Venus' goal when she came on to the wta was to take over, win and pave the way for Serena. Well she's accomplished all of those goals and she doesn't seem to have anything else to go for.

Venus' goal should be to cement her tennis legacy regardless of what Serena's tennis legacy is. Venus' goal should be to fix her technical motion to her serve and add variety to her serve and fix her second serve and add a kick serve and add more angles to her game so she can go after the AO & FO.

If anyone doubts that Venus is one of the fastest and best lateral movers on the court they are deceived. Venus is awesome at net. She just needs a coach who can give her a different perspective about her game in a way that will motivate Venus to fix all of those flaws that have haunted her these past 7 years. Venus should not be struggling with all of these technical issues with her first and second serve. It's nonsense.

Maria got stuck in a rut with her coach (joyce), and after she saw that she wasn't responding to his instructions as a coach, she realized that she needed a new voice who could ;bring something to her game from a different perspective. She got Li's coach and he got a plan for Maria to win the FO because it would cement her legacy and place her in a category that is shared by only a hand full of women. Maria started liking that idea and they set out with a plan for Maria to enter in as many clay court tournaments as she could in an effort to master the dirt that she claimed made her play like a cow on ice. Maria kept playing on the red dirt and she learned how to manage it and when Serena went out in the first round, Maria had her opening to win the FO, but that would NEVER have happened had NOT she prepared for that moment months and months in advance.

Venus doesn't have that at the moment. Venus is just playing to win and make it to the next round. Venus needs to have that goal, but she also needs a bigger goal and that is to win the AO and FO.

in 2008, Venus emailed Lisa Raymond and said that she was gonna win Wimbledon right after Serena won the AO. And guess what, she did just that. Venus publically said that she was going to get enough points because she had a goal to win the GOLD in doubles with sErena and she did just that.

After she won that Gold Medal, Venus has not talked about another goal that she has. In all of her interviews she's still talking about that Gold in Doubles, and when asked if she was going to try to win another GS, she doesn't confirm that.

Venus doesn't need to play just to be playing. Venus is too good to just be playing with no real clear goal or plan in mind. Venus is suppose to be playing to win every tournament she enters. David Witt does NOT motivate Venus in a way to make her up the "ANTE", and it's time to get rid of him and bring on some new blood to get her winning again.

When Serena stepped on that court to play Makarova, she had a clear goal and strategy to take her out and inch closer to getting to the finals, and she did just that in 2 sets. Venus was suppose to have that same strategy and mind set with Kerber, and move closer to the finals. Venus was suppose to take her out in 2 sets and since she didn't she was NOT suppose to lose a 4-2 lead in the third set because of df's and stupid UFE's that was not brought on by Kerber. This is ridiculous. :mad:

bertoltbrecht
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:47 PM
Venus needs a new coach who can bring a new perspective to her game and tennis legacy. Venus' goal when she came on to the wta was to take over, win and pave the way for Serena. Well she's accomplished all of those goals and she doesn't seem to have anything else to go for.

Venus' goal should be to cement her tennis legacy regardless of what Serena's tennis legacy is. Venus' goal should be to fix her technical motion to her serve and add variety to her serve and fix her second serve and add a kick serve and add more angles to her game so she can go after the AO & FO.

If anyone doubts that Venus is one of the fastest and best lateral movers on the court they are deceived. Venus is awesome at net. She just needs a coach who can give her a different perspective about her game in a way that will motivate Venus to fix all of those flaws that have haunted her these past 7 years. Venus should not be struggling with all of these technical issues with her first and second serve. It's nonsense.

Maria got stuck in a rut with her coach (joyce), and after she saw that she wasn't responding to his instructions as a coach, she realized that she needed a new voice who could ;bring something to her game from a different perspective. She got Li's coach and he got a plan for Maria to win the FO because it would cement her legacy and place her in a category that is shared by only a hand full of women. Maria started liking that idea and they set out with a plan for Maria to enter in as many clay court tournaments as she could in an effort to master the dirt that she claimed made her play like a cow on ice. Maria kept playing on the red dirt and she learned how to manage it and when Serena went out in the first round, Maria had her opening to win the FO, but that would NEVER have happened had NOT she prepared for that moment months and months in advance.

Venus doesn't have that at the moment. Venus is just playing to win and make it to the next round. Venus needs to have that goal, but she also needs a bigger goal and that is to win the AO and FO.

in 2008, Venus emailed Lisa Raymond and said that she was gonna win Wimbledon right after Serena won the AO. And guess what, she did just that. Venus publically said that she was going to get enough points because she had a goal to win the GOLD in doubles with sErena and she did just that.

After she won that Gold Medal, Venus has not talked about another goal that she has. In all of her interviews she's still talking about that Gold in Doubles, and when asked if she was going to try to win another GS, she doesn't confirm that.

Venus doesn't need to play just to be playing. Venus is too good to just be playing with no real clear goal or plan in mind. Venus is suppose to be playing to win every tournament she enters. David Witt does NOT motivate Venus in a way to make her up the "ANTE", and it's time to get rid of him and bring on some new blood to get her winning again.

When Serena stepped on that court to play Makarova, she had a clear goal and strategy to take her out and inch closer to getting to the finals, and she did just that in 2 sets. Venus was suppose to have that same strategy and mind set with Kerber, and move closer to the finals. Venus was suppose to take her out in 2 sets and since she didn't she was NOT suppose to lose a 4-2 lead in the third set because of df's and stupid UFE's that was not brought on by Kerber. This is ridiculous. :mad:

This. Your analysis is on point.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM
Venus played pretty decent..she had her chances but really coulnd't hold serve well and way to many errors as usual. Good try though...Venus is going out in tournaments way early. Something has to tell her that its time to retire now. People like Roddick saw the writing on the walls from his results...I dont know...I love Venus but I'm just not use to seeing her go out so early on a regular basis. Oh well, Let's go Serena...! ;)

nemurenai
Sep 2nd, 2012, 01:37 AM
Venus played pretty decent..she had her chances but really coulnd't hold serve well and way to many errors as usual. Good try though...Venus is going out in tournaments way early. Something has to tell her that its time to retire now. People like Roddick saw the writing on the walls from his results...I dont know...I love Venus but I'm just not use to seeing her go out so early on a regular basis. Oh well, Let's go Serena...! ;)

It's especially frustrating when you can see that, often, she can still play amazing tennis. :mad: That's why I'm still a bit reluctant to think that she should retire yet. I think, though it's been a while since her return, you have to consider that she really hasn't played a lot this year.

Anyway, as I said, I'm too encouraged by the way I see her play sometimes. Bring on the next tournament :bounce: (part of me thinks that this loss is just one of those "oh Venus :rolleyes:" ones. They type that she could always throw in, even before her illness had progressed. That's another factor that makes me slightly less disappointed.)

danieln1
Sep 2nd, 2012, 01:52 AM
Venus :o

Larrybidd
Sep 2nd, 2012, 02:38 PM
You first need to put the ball before in court :lol:. Amd enough of the BS about nor being able to 'push'. Putting the ball in court is pushing? Why doesn't she push more creatively then? Slice, hit sharp angles etc, since just prolonging a point and not bombing out with your OWN error is considered so demeaning.

Any person with a sliver of brain would have seen Kerber was gobbling up pace and was struggling top do much when she was forced to generate her own.

I see it like this: clearly some players would rather live and die by the sword than do mundane things like win matches and progress deep into a Slam with the chance of (mayb) contending for it.

Dude, you cannot approach the net buy pushing a safe shot to the other side of the net. Nobody has been able to do that since they stopped using wood rackets. You want/expect Venus to play it safe, but she's never been that type player and isn't gonna reconstruct her game to be one now. But as long as she still has the athleticism..(and she does)...she doesn't need to make those radical changes to her game. There is nothing safe about getting to the net, successfully. That's why players don't do it anymore. It's really hard. In fact, a handful of her UE's where caused by Venus running thru down the line backhands, trying to get to net.

Venus has always made lots of UE's. Look it up. She also has always had the same shaky 2nd serve. What is different these days is that she is not holding her serve. Why? She's getting killed on her 2nd serve, and much worse, she's missing too many 2nd serves altogether. How does she cut this down? Real easy solution... that doesn't require her hiring a serving coach to change something she's done all her life. Ain't gonna happen anyway. The simple solution is to stop hitting so many second serves. I know she can do this because this is how she serves in doubles. Take 10 mph off the 1st serve, and stop bombing so many serves. A 105 mph serve is a good serve for 85% of the women on tour. Its a great serve if its aimed well. She'll win her service games more regularly and can play the same hard charging style that she always has. I agree that Venus is too reckless returning serves..taking full swings at serves she'd be better off blocking back from where she stands..inside the baseline. But, again, she can and has gotten away with taking chances in the return game WHEN SHE HOLDS HER OWN SERVE.

Now, I love Venus Williams' big bombing serve. Nothing thrills me in tennis more than watching Venus "brain" somebody with a her fastball to the body. Watching players turn their heads and use their rackets as a shield. On grass, its totally not fair. Venus got Sweta real good a few years back at Wimbledon. Venus got Beth Mattick-Sands in the first round here. (she got a little of her frame on it, but it hit her anyway). The tennis equivalent of an in-your-face dunk. The only thing hurt is pride. Venus must love this more than I do. But she needs to dial it back (by about half. Don't give it up completely. :-)

bobbynorwich
Sep 2nd, 2012, 02:48 PM
Nice oncourt interview Kerber! :D

Yes, there's a nice unpolished charm about her.