PDA

View Full Version : Who's the bigger pusher? Wozniacki or Kerber


aznunit2k5
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:51 AM
Both are awful pushers from what I can see.
Woz probably is the bigger pusher but Kerber isn't too far behind.

danieln1
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:55 AM
Kerber can be agressive when she wants to

Matej
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:57 AM
The only thing in Kerberīs game that can be legitimately called "pushing" is her serve.

tennisfan5
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:58 AM
umm...have you been watching this match? she's been hitting the ball very hard. the woz can only dream

Natash.
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:00 AM
Kerber is definitely not a pusher :lol: Some people see a player play defense and immediately call her a pusher.

Spring Pools
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:04 AM
Wozniacki pushes more but Kerber is bigger

flareon
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:05 AM
Kerber is following wozniacki though with her fake MTO :o

pierce85
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:14 AM
Kerber is by no means a pusher

Simplicity.
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:17 AM
My favorite player is losing and I need to cry about it :sobbing:

:wavey:

steni
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:18 AM
Kerber is a really lucky pusher, with an awful serve!

Jane Lane
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:41 AM
Wozniacki can only dream of hitting the down the lines that Kerber is capable of.

VeeJJ
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:45 AM
Kerber is by no means a pusher. Shes an excellent counter puncher and annoying the fuck out of me right now.

hingisGOAT
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:49 AM
Kerber is very pedestrian. Awful, club-level serve, not really that fast, poor backhand. Just camps out way behind the baseline and pushes like a robot. Wozniacki at least had a decent serve and backhand. Although I haven't watched Wozniacki much recently to see how bad she's become...

Dani12
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:50 AM
Kerber is not a pusher...please...

LenaDMania0003
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:51 AM
Kerber is a counterpuncher rather than a pusher

mistymore
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:54 AM
Kerber can be agressive when she wants to

Which apparently is almost never.

Julian.
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:01 AM
Kerber is not a pusher duh.

danieln1
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:02 AM
Which apparently is almost never.

She doesnt need to as Venus is spraying balls on the Upper Level of Ashe Stadium :facepalm:

mistymore
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:04 AM
She doesnt need to as Venus is spraying balls on the Upper Level of Ashe Stadium :facepalm:

Apparently she does as she on the verge of quite possibly losing the match inspite of that. :lol:

faboozadoo15
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:04 AM
Anyone is going to look like a pusher against someone who is rushing the net and making 60+ UE's.

Pops Maellard
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:35 AM
Dominguez Lino.

Lunaticalm
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:36 AM
Why is every player who doesn't hit as recklessly as Sharapova, does not commit numerous unforced errors, plays good defense, and who actually builds a point automatically branded a pusher?

Just mind-boggling, really.

cellophane
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:37 AM
Kerber a pusher? :lol: did you see the pace of some of these rallies... or were you half-asleep?

Stonerpova
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:40 AM
Why is every player who doesn't hit as recklessly as Sharapova, does not commit numerous unforced errors, plays good defense, and who actually builds a point automatically branded a pusher?

Just mind-boggling, really.

This, minus the unnecessary dig at Sharapova

ranfurly
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:41 AM
The Berlin Wall

Patrick345
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:48 AM
The only thing in Kerberīs game that can be legitimately called "pushing" is her serve.

:spit::tears:

She really needs to fix that 2nd serve. She has a better first serve than she can show consistently, because she has to limit the exposure of her 2nd serve. Therefore she takes pace off the 1st serve for a higher percentage. The other weakness is stepping into and handling softer balls. She has the ability for one shot winners (like the monster fh dtl today to set up matchpoints), but it gets tricky, when she is asked to construct a longer point on the frontfoot. Thatīs why Iīm scared to death of that match with Errani, whoīll topspin her again and again, until her technique breaks down. Damn Muguruza should have eliminated Errani.

mistymore
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:49 AM
Kerber would have to play really bad to lose to Errani on hard courts. Errani is a mug on non clay surfaces.

wozfan01
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:55 AM
Um. No, Kerber is an aggresive counter puncher. She can rip winners, goes for angles, and when she's on the run she gets most of her balls deep, making it hard for opponents to outhit her. Slumpniacki loops balls up just waiting to be smacked.

and i'm saying this as a Caro fan, have you seen their matches this year, 2 straight set wins for Kerber, with a smackdown in Stuttgart. I have to say Kerber is growing on me, and i love her i dont care personality, its refreshing

Rest Maria!
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:56 AM
I recomment you to see Juan Monaco's opening round loss to see a true pusher. At least Venus was forcing Kerber into deep defensive position most of the time, Monaco was just putting the ball back in play from neutral rally position literally every single time (and had like 15 net points in a 4 1/2 hours long match).

Patrick345
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:56 AM
Kerber would have to play really bad to lose to Errani on hard courts. Errani is a mug on non clay surfaces.

All about match-ups. Errani is a bad one for Kerber with all her topspin and brain. If Venus had won, Errani could have packed her bags after the next round, because she wouldnīt have won more than four games against Venus. Now it becomes really tricky. Hopefully Kerber can refresh with an easier 3rd round result, because sheīll need it.

mistymore
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:01 AM
I dont see Errani as some bad matchup for Kerber because she beat her on clay. Errani is as good or better on clay so why is that a surprising result. Are there any other matches that indicate this. Kerber is much better on hard courts and Errani much weaker.

Vikapower
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:06 AM
Kerber isn't a pusher -- Kerber has quality rally balls alone Wozniacki can only dream about and Kerber does turn defense into offense very effectively something retrievers of Wozniacki's brand can't do.

Kerber is a counterpuncher rather than a pusher

Both are counter-punchers but Wozniacki is defensive-minded and her game tends to pushing. Wozniacki isn't a 100% pusher like at the local club next door though she does do some stuffs from time to time.

Patrick345
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:06 AM
I dont see Errani as some bad matchup for Kerber because she beat her on clay. Errani is as good or better on clay so why is that a surprising result. Are there any other matches that indicate this.

Not really. Kerber actually destroyed Errrani on hardcourts in Auckland (I think), but Erani is a smart player and once she finds a strategy that works, sheīll try to exploit it. Youīll see a lot of deep moonballs and topspin to Kerberīs backhand like she did at the French Open. I hope Iīm wrong and Kerber blows her off the hardcourt again, but I think it will be a struggle.

Leo St
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:07 AM
i havent read the responses to this but to define kerber as a pusher is an imprecise statement, of course, against venus, people will probably be put in a defensive mode, but she has the shots.. the thing is she usually rellies in her constancy, returning the shots with great depth and well angled.. that for me is the definition of a

grinder

pov
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:12 AM
Both are awful pushers from what I can see.
Woz probably is the bigger pusher but Kerber isn't too far behind.
:haha: I think those comments are reason enough to ask you not to write anything else about tennis. Describing Kerber as a pusher is just daft.

dybbuk
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:15 AM
Who in their right mind would look at Kerber and describe her as a pusher. I say so many points where she took all of Venus' pace and blasted DTL winners. I have never seen Wozniacki hit as hard as Kerber can and does.

DOUBLEFIST
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:23 AM
Kerber is NOT a pusher.

Mynarco
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:23 AM
Kerber can be really aggressive when needed to.

Johnbert
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:58 AM
in tennisforum, everyone who doesn't hit the ball as hard as the williams-sister, sharapova or kvitova is a pusher :rolleyes:

bandabou
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:31 AM
Kerber is more of a counterpuncher. She can hit some good winners.

Setsuna.
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:41 AM
in tennisforum, everyone who doesn't hit the ball as hard as the williams-sister, sharapova or kvitova is a pusher :rolleyes:

So true.

oh yeah i guess
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:52 AM
Clearly an informative thread deserving of such space on the first page on the main board. Would read again.

Kerber is no pusher.

jj74
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:43 AM
I'm starting to think people just don't know what's a pusher. Between beeng a pusher and a brainless ballbasher there's a whole world.
Not everyone is able to hit the ball as harder as Serena or Petra, but the last time a watch her Kerber was able to make a good amount of winners. She has a good defense but she is able to attack (the same way Clijsters was very good on the defense but had defensive weapons)

Libertango
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:50 AM
:tape:

Israel
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:51 AM
Since when is Kerber a pusher?

perseus2006
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:53 AM
Why is every player who doesn't hit as recklessly as Sharapova, does not commit numerous unforced errors, plays good defense, and who actually builds a point automatically branded a pusher?

Just mind-boggling, really.

Hey! Pova builds points.

Beat
Aug 31st, 2012, 08:07 AM
Both are awful pushers from what I can see.
Woz probably is the bigger pusher but Kerber isn't too far behind.

well, you can't see much then.
:facepalm: at this thread.
the word pusher is so 2011 anyway.

Lunaticalm
Aug 31st, 2012, 08:09 AM
Hey! Pova builds points.

From what I've seen yes, she can play quite tactically, but most of the time she just chooses to blast risky winners off of every single ball, especially when she's outmatched. It's just common knowledge. :shrug:

Nevertheless
Aug 31st, 2012, 08:53 AM
Kerber hits huge forehands out of nowhere from time to time. That's your answer right there.

Carlsbadwanska
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:09 AM
Kerber is a pusher but she trying play agressive. Naturally she doesn`t hitting 20 winners in 2setters matches. How many winners she hitted against Anne K.?

laurie
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:30 AM
Kerber is instinctively a counterpuncher but is capable of being a very offensive player. Her ability to hit down the lines is great. What Kerber should think about to get to the very elite, is to look at Andy Murray, because Murray has been trying to curb his natural counterpunching instinct for a more aggressive game to win the really big prizes.

For Kerber to do that, her serve can be a better shot / weapon, and she can consider coming to net a bit more to force the action. She's got the raw talent, just needs a bit of poilishing up and she can be very very good indeed for a long time.

Juju Nostalgique
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:48 AM
Then she's now officially Pushber! :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

LCS
Aug 31st, 2012, 11:23 AM
Most people here have to brush up their tennis dictionary.

TeamUla
Aug 31st, 2012, 11:35 AM
Defence = Polish thing :spit:

lenas warriors
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:00 PM
It used to Be Woz and would would still be if her game hadnt fallen apart.

Woz is now a brainless ball pusher

TheDiamond
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:15 PM
Anyone who describes Kerber as a 'pusher' clearly knows little about/has never played tennis.
She has a great ability to turn defence into offence, plays down the lines very well, can hit deep, sees and creates good angles. Hopefully she'll use the off-season to improve her serve and, if she does, I see her sticking around at the top for quite a while.

Doully
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:26 PM
Glad to see that almost everyone totally disagrees with the OP.

Ridiculous thread. Do us fans of tennis a favour and just go and do one. Ta.

hBence
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:30 PM
Kerber is not a pusher. :o

vuhvuh
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:35 PM
people comparing Angie to Woz r just stupid. Angie is way better player than Caro is. She can hit much harder and no she aint pusher she aint moonballing. wake up people

Tenis Srbija
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:45 PM
Kerber a pusher :spit: :spit: :spit:
People here should really learn the meaning of PUSHER, COUNTER-PUNCHER, BALL-BASHER.....

StoneRose
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:46 PM
Glad to see that almost everyone totally disagrees with the OP.

Ridiculous thread. Do us fans of tennis a favour and just go and do one. Ta.This.

SVK
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:50 PM
For some people really just pushing and ballbashing exist, thankfully the world isnīt just black and white.

TheDiamond
Aug 31st, 2012, 01:13 PM
Glad to see that almost everyone totally disagrees with the OP.

Ridiculous thread. Do us fans of tennis a favour and just go and do one. Ta.

This.

Shaun:::
Aug 31st, 2012, 01:20 PM
Angie isnt a pusher:o

valac222
Aug 31st, 2012, 01:29 PM
There is a big difference between Kerber and Woz. Kerber can play a pusher-like game when she wants, Woz can play only that. Kerber is a counter-attacker. It is brilliant how hard she can hit the ball from an "out-of-position" situation.

tennismaster8820
Aug 31st, 2012, 01:29 PM
Kerber is not pusher by whatever definition that word has.
This thread should be closed.

Matt01
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:00 PM
For some people really just pushing and ballbashing exist, thankfully the world isnīt just black and white.


For some people it still is :tape:

TennisSLO
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:05 PM
Since when is Kerber a pusher?

Since Venus lost to her for 3rd time in a row. If Kerber is a pusher, Venus is a BBB. :lol:

aznunit2k5
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:18 PM
Venus is a pusher too. She pushes the ball into the net; its her specialty.

Jose.
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:21 PM
Nobody pushes more than Wozniacki. End of discussion!

Zhao
Aug 31st, 2012, 02:25 PM
aggresive grinder

Fuzzylogic
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:29 PM
Kerber is more of a counterpuncher. She can hit some good winners.

I was gonna post this. Kerber and Wozniacki's games outline the difference between counterpunching and pushing. Kerber is a counterpuncher, Wozniacki is more of a pusher :shrug:

Vikapower
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:18 PM
Wozniacki isn't a "pusher" either, I hate her but yikes people really misuse this word so much. Some people really need to go in the local club next door and see what a typical pusher is about. Wozniacki would school a pusher even in her sleep.

Wozniacki is a counter-puncher like Kerber only their mindsets are totally different.

JeMa
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:58 PM
I despise the counter-puncher game all around.

Kerber doesn't always push but she reverted to pushing in that 3rd set against Venus. The moonballing was embarrassing

In The Zone
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:00 PM
There is a big difference between Kerber and Woz. Kerber can play a pusher-like game when she wants, Woz can play only that. Kerber is a counter-attacker. It is brilliant how hard she can hit the ball from an "out-of-position" situation.

This sums it up nicely.

TheDream
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:05 PM
She's not a posher, but like Wozniacki, both of their instincts are defensive. Kerber hit only a couple winners in that final set.

Start da Game
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:20 PM
neither is really a pusher......kerber is a counter-puncher and wozniacki is just a retriever......

pushing is an art......giles simon is the guru of pushing.......watch his videos of 2008 and 2009 to know what pushing really is......how to push a ball to the corners, use the angles and slap a winner when there's an opening.......none of the women can push to perfection as far as i know......

sxeraserhead
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:34 PM
If you watched either of Kerber's matches against Wozniacki this year the difference
would be obvious :wavey:

Sometimes her aggressive game just isn't working and she has to resort to attrition, it's true though. Last night and her entire clay season are examples of that.

n1_and_uh_noone
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:47 PM
Pushers don't hit the angles Kerber does, or favor going down the line like her. However, Kerber sometimes tends to become a pusher when she is under pressure, no doubt about it. I do like how she starts to slap return winners out of anger for a couple of games :drool:

IMO, the best way to detect a pusher is to see what he/she does after hitting a good serve. Does the next shot go down the middle with nothing on it?

Patrick345
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:59 PM
Pushers don't hit the angles Kerber does, or favor going down the line like her. However, Kerber sometimes tends to become a pusher when she is under pressure, no doubt about it. I do like how she starts to slap return winners out of anger for a couple of games :drool:

IMO, the best way to detect a pusher is to see what he/she does after hitting a good serve. Does the next shot go down the middle with nothing on it?

Well the problem with that theory, is that most donīt have one. No I agree with the general thought.

To me itīs what you do with short balls or from a great position in a rally, when the natural instinct should be to hit an offensive shot of any sort. Wozniacki would you just put the ball back into play with no purpose, while Radwanska mostly tries to use placement as a weapon, while Kerber will go for it. Kerberīs weakness is to dictate play by hitting 2-3 offensive shots in a row (due to her technique). Therefore her game is best suited for very fast surfaces, where she can go for one killshot and doesnīt have to win points multiple times. Thatīs why clay is by far her worst surface and I think she actually overachieved massively during the clayseason.

Wiggly
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:06 PM
Both players's kaman/come on gesture are weird/inelegant.

Start da Game
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:13 PM
@n1 and uh noone and patrick345

imo a pusher's motive is not to repress his/her aggression and push just for the sake of it......there are a lot of players who push when they are desperate and tentative......

the motive is to achieve maximum possible depth through sacrificing power(thereby eliminating risk) and like you said the placement too......all that is done to set up an easy finish and pull the trigger at appropriate moment......simon executes textbook pushing.....he is brilliant at it.....

n1_and_uh_noone
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:19 PM
@n1 and uh noone and patrick345

imo a pusher's motive is not to repress his/her aggression and push just for the sake of it......there are a lot of players who push when they are desperate and tentative......

the motive is to achieve maximum possible depth through sacrificing power(thereby eliminating risk) and like you said the placement too......all that is done to set up an easy finish and pull the trigger at appropriate moment......simon executes textbook pushing.....he is brilliant at it.....

I have seen Simon hit really aggressive shots too. Not throughout sets of course. And clearly Wozniacki CAN hit aggressively (if nothing else, at least off her backhand). The difference is that Simon (and Radwanska and Kerber) have really flat shots which are tricky even if they look soft. Wozniacki would actually be a genius if she knew how to hit topspin correctly.

Funny how I used to think Kerber was a basher back in the day. Now she is being accused of being a pusher :lol:

ArcticMoose
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:28 PM
Both players's kaman/come on gesture are weird/inelegant.
;) Both players' roots can be traced to a particular country, so lets say it is in the genes...:lol:

Matt01
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:29 PM
I despise the counter-puncher game all around.

Kerber doesn't always push but she reverted to pushing in that 3rd set against Venus. The moonballing was embarrassing


I saw 2 or 3 moonballs from Kerber to change the rhythm in that 3rd set. Since it didn't work she abandoned that. To harp on that is really ridiculous.

Rest Maria!
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:35 PM
;) Both players' roots can be traced to a particular country, so lets say it is in the genes...:lol:

Except actual Polish players (Aga, Ula, Marta) don't behave like wild monkeys whenever they win a point. :p

And Wozniacki is not a moonballer. She puts a lot of top spin on her forehand so it has ridiculously curved trajectory, but it's not moonballing. Niculescu, Cohen or Zaniewska are moonballers.

Natash.
Aug 31st, 2012, 07:56 PM
Most people here have to brush up their tennis dictionary.

This :o