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Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:13 PM
Putin still runs things as usual. Facing 3 years in jail.

Three members of Russian punk band Pussy Riot have been convicted of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, over a protest in a cathedral.

Judge Marina Syrova said the women had "crudely undermined social order" during their action in February.

The women say their "punk prayer" was a political act in protest against the Russian Orthodox Church leader's support of President Vladimir Putin.

Prosecutors are seeking a three-year jail sentence.

The verdict is still being read out.

Judge Syrova said Maria Alyokhina, 24, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 22, and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 29, had offended the feelings of Orthodox believers and shown a "complete lack of respect".

"Tolokonnikova, Alyokhina and Samutsevich committed hooliganism - in other words, a grave violation of public order," she said.

Along with other members of their band, the women staged a flashmob-style performance of their song close to the altar in the cathedral on 21 February.

Their brief, obscenity-laced performance, which implored the Virgin Mary to "throw Putin out", enraged the Orthodox Church - its leader Patriarch Kirill said it amounted to blasphemy.

Alyokhina, Tolokonnikova and Samutsevich, watching proceedings from inside a glass-walled cage in the courtroom, smiled as the widely predicted verdict was delivered.

On Thursday, Tolokonnikova had said she was "not bitter about being in jail". But, speaking through her lawyer on Twitter, she said: "Politically, I am furious."

"Our imprisonment serves as a clear and unambiguous sign that freedom is being taken away from the entire country," she said.

The women have been detained for the past five months.

Their defence lawyer said before the hearing that they were hoping for an acquittal, "but they are ready to continue to fight".

Large crowds of supporters have gathered outside the court in Moscow, including prominent opposition leader Alexei Navalny.

However critics of the band are also protesting.

Some in Russian see the case as an attempt by the government to crack down on dissent.

Protests are being held around the world in support of the band members. The band have also had vocal support from artists including Paul McCartney and Madonna, and from politicians.


And here is a live running commentary http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-trial-verdict-live?newsfeed=true

Didnt find anything about the case in the search so if theres another thread about the case, please re-direct me.

tenn_ace
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Russia is such a backwards country sometimes it's embarrassing...

tenn_ace
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:22 PM
Putin is of course to blame, but what about all those judges/police who have no courage whatsoever to stand up to him?

Mynarco
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:26 PM
This country (Russia) is so fucked up

olivero
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:46 PM
It was expected though
Another decision which was made today in Moscow
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19293465

Gay parades banned in Moscow for 100 years

Moscow's top court has upheld a ban on gay pride marches in the Russian capital for the next 100 years.

Earlier Russia's best-known gay rights campaigner, Nikolay Alexeyev, had gone to court hoping to overturn the city council's ban on gay parades.

He had asked for the right to stage such parades for the next 100 years.

He also opposes St Petersburg's ban on spreading "homosexual propaganda". The European Court of Human Rights has told Russia to pay him damages.

On Friday he said he would go back to the European Court in Strasbourg to push for a recognition that Moscow's ban on gay pride marches - past, present and future - was unjust.

The Moscow city government argues that the gay parade would risk causing public disorder and that most Muscovites do not support such an event.

In September, the Council of Europe - the main human rights watchdog in Europe - will examine Russia's response to a previous European Court ruling on the gay rights issue, Russian media report.

In October 2010 the court said Russia had discriminated against Mr Alexeyev on grounds of sexual orientation. It had considered Moscow's ban on gay parades covering the period 2006-2008.

don't know which one is more ridiculous :help:

pla
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Heheh, I loath the regime in Russia and all similar regimes in EE but I also would like to remind that those who think they are free are actually the easiest pray for mind-tyranny. Be careful people about your local "Pussy riot" and how they are presented to you and your countrymen. ;)

The only surprise here is why PES is still silent and still has representatives of the "socialists" from Eastern Europe. Those people have no intention nor desire to adhere even on surface to the democratic values.

The Dawntreader
Aug 17th, 2012, 01:46 PM
3 years for Hooliganism? In the UK, hooligans are known as artists.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 01:59 PM
2 years each in jail from the date of arrest so 19 months I think... Crazy.

Beat
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM
this is so fucked up. imagine someone entering a church in your city, shouting around a bit - and then being put in jail for 3 years? unbelievable.

russia is further away from being a democracy than it was 20 years ago.

FORZA SARITA
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:06 PM
and then real criminals are free :lol:

Mistress of Evil
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:32 PM
Such a dictatorship in 21th century in a European country. :tape: Putin needs to be dealt with.

Miracle Worker
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:41 PM
Don't call them punk band. They're rather political activists.

Anyway, after jail they will be like Gandhi or Tymoszenko :o

Effy
Aug 17th, 2012, 03:11 PM
our country is such a mess to put it mildly :facepalm: :help:

Onslow
Aug 17th, 2012, 03:38 PM
3 years for Hooliganism? In the UK, hooligans are known as artists.

and that's a good thing :lol: i think britain needs a putin

two years may be too much but they clearly committed a crime and were punished. end of the story.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 03:42 PM
and that's a good thing :lol: i think britain needs a putin

two years may be too much but they clearly committed a crime and were punished. end of the story.

Shows how fucked up the justice system is in Russia (and most countries) when musicians get thrown in jail for playing music in a church and nobody is ever charged with the murder of dissidents :shrug: If thats the system you think is good...

Onslow
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Shows how fucked up the justice system is in Russia (and most countries) when musicians get thrown in jail for playing music in a church and nobody is ever charged with the murder of dissidents :shrug: If thats the system you think is good...

didn't they break into a private property and defame religion in a sacred place? and they show no regret... since when religious hatred is a good thing?

i doubt that these three feminists who call themselves "pussy riot" can even play any instruments... :rolleyes:

The Crow
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:18 PM
and that's a good thing :lol: i think britain needs a putin

two years may be too much but they clearly committed a crime and were punished. end of the story.

End of story, my ass. They sang a song! IMO a crime is when you hurt people (mentally, physically, ...). And if people feel hurt by a song, they really should start having a life.

olivero
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:29 PM
and that's a good thing :lol: i think britain needs a putin

two years may be too much but they clearly committed a crime and were punished. end of the story.

Right, cause freedom of speech is so overrated.

didn't they break into a private property and defame religion in a sacred place? and they show no regret... since when religious hatred is a good thing?

i doubt that these three feminists who call themselves "pussy riot" can even play any instruments... :rolleyes:

As far as I know the church isn't a private property and they didn't sing/dance in any place that is forbiden for the laymen. Their song wasn't even targeted against religion but more against orthodx church authorities who get involved in politics (supporting Putin's presidency). How is that a religious hatred?
And what does playing instruments has to do with anything? :lol:

Tennis Fool
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Putin threatened by three 20-something women. Two with kids.

Fail.

Jerem
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:46 PM
They certainly don't deserve such a sanction, and I really hope that they will be able to avoid it.
That's a complete shame :rolleyes:

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:49 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/russian-punk-band-verdict-found-guilty-hooliganism-115937812.html

Russian punk band found guilty of hooliganism, sentenced to two years

Three members of Pussy Riot -- a Russian punk band and feminist collective that mocked Russian president Vladamir Putin during a "punk prayer" in a Moscow cathedral--have been found guilty of hooliganism and sentenced to two years in jail

Judge Marina Syrova announced the verdict from a district court in central Moscow, about two miles from the Christ the Saviour Cathedral where the guerrilla group performed its "flash" stunt.

The band members--Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 22, Maria Alyokhina, 24, and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 30--were arrested on March 3, several weeks after the performance, and charged with "hooliganism." They've been in jail ever since.

Their trial drew enormous international interest, sparking catcalls from international free-speech advocates and spawning dozens of protests. Some of those were reported on Twitter during the verdict and sentencing, involving an impromptu musical concert and some protests in public areas in Moscow and London.

Madonna, Bjork, Paul McCartney and Courtney Love were among a long list of musicians to come out in support of Pussy Riot, calling on the Russian government to set the band members free. Last week in Berlin, more than 400 people joined a protest led by electro-singer Peaches.

"In one of the most extravagant displays," the Associated Press said, "Reykjavik Mayor Jon Gnarr rode through the streets of the Icelandic capital in a Gay Pride parade ... dressed like a band member--wearing a bright pink dress and matching balaclava--while lip-synching to one of Pussy Riot's songs."

What started as "a punk-infused political prank," London's Independent said, "has rapidly snowballed into one of the most notorious court cases in post-Soviet Russian history."

Five members of the group, which formed in 2011, were arrested in January after a video of a Putin-baiting performance in Moscow's Red Square circulated online. They were detained for several hours by police, fined and released, NPR said.

But the 10-member Pussy Riot, inspired by the American "riot grrrl" movement and bands like Bikini Kill, vowed more protest performances.

Pussy Riot's stunt at Moscow's Christ the Savior Cathedral, a Russian Orthodox church, was a response, they said, to Patriarch Kirill's public support of Putin in the build-up to Russia's presidential election. Putin won a third term as president in March.

"Holy Mother, send Putin packing!" the group sang.

The Guardian called the trial, which began on July 30, "worse than Soviet era."

"By the end of the first week of Pussy Riot's trial," the Guardian's Miriam Elder wrote last week, "everyone in the shabby Moscow courthouse was tired. Guards, armed with submachine guns, grabbed journalists and threw them out of the room at will. The judge, perched in front of a shabby Russian flag, refused to look at the defense. And the police dog--a 100 [pound] black Rottweiler--no longer sat in the corner she had occupied since the start of Russia's trial of the year, but barked and foamed at the mouth as if she were in search of blood."

Lawyers for the women complained during the trial that the trio were being starved and tortured in prison. Two threatened to go on a hunger strike after they were initially jailed.

"Their treatment has caused deep disquiet among many Russians, who feel the women are--to coin a phrase from the 1967 trial of members of the Rolling Stones--butterflies being broken on a wheel," the BBC's Daniel Sandford wrote.

Syrova was subjected to unspecified threats during the trial, Russian authorities announced on Thursday--assigning bodyguards to protect her before and after she announced the verdict.

Several Russian pop stars, though, questioned the outpouring of support for Pussy Riot.

"What is so great about Pussy Riot that all these international stars support them?" Russian singer Valeria wrote on her website, according to Reuters. "They must be saying this because someone ordered them to."

"Art and politics are inseparable for us," the band said in an interview with the online newspaper Gazeta.ru in February. "We try to make political art. Performances and their rehearsals are our job. Life in Pussy Riot takes a lot of time."

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:53 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/17/entertainment-us-russia-pussyriot-idUSBRE87F1E520120817


Russia's Pussy Riot protesters sentenced to two years

http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120817&t=2&i=643442758&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=CBRE87G0R8N00

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Three women from Russian punk band Pussy Riot were sentenced to two years in jail on Friday for their protest against President Vladimir Putin in a church, an outcome supporters described as the Kremlin leader's "personal revenge".

The band's supporters burst into chants of "Shame" outside the Moscow courthouse and said the case showed Putin's refusal to tolerate dissent. The U.S. embassy in Moscow said the sentence appeared disproportionate to what the defendants did.

The women have support abroad, where their case has been taken up by a long list of celebrities including Madonna, Paul McCartney and Sting, but opinion polls show few Russians sympathize with them.

"The girls' actions were sacrilegious, blasphemous and broke the church's rules," Judge Marina Syrova told the court as she spent three hours reading the verdict while the women stood watching in handcuffs inside a glass courtroom cage.

She declared all three guilty of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred, saying they had deliberately offended Russian Orthodox believers by storming the altar of Moscow's main cathedral in February to belt out a song deriding Putin.

Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 22, Marina Alyokhina, 24, and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 30, giggled as the judge read out the sentences one by one. They have already been in jail for about five months, meaning they will serve another 19.

They say they were protesting against Putin's close ties with the church when they burst into Moscow's golden-domed Christ the Saviour Cathedral wearing bright ski masks, tights and short skirts.

State prosecutors had requested a three-year jail term.

Putin's opponents portray the trial as part of a wider crackdown by the former KGB spy to crush their protest movement.

"They are in jail because it is Putin's personal revenge," Alexei Navalny, one of the organizers of big protests against Putin during the winter, told reporters outside the court. "This verdict was written by Vladimir Putin."

Putin's spokesman did not immediately answer calls following the verdict, but the president's allies said before the trial that the Kremlin would not have any influence on the outcome. The Russian Orthodox Church also did not comment.

FOREIGN SUPPORT

Foreign singers have campaigned for the trio's release, and Washington says the case is politically motivated. Madonna performed in Moscow with "PUSSY RIOT" painted on her back.

"As in most politically motivated cases, this court is not in line with the law, common sense or mercy," veteran human rights campaigner Lyudmila Alexeyeva said.

But Valentina Ivanova, 60, a retired doctor, said outside the courtroom: "What they did showed disrespect towards everything, and towards believers first of all."

The judge said they had "committed an act of hooliganism, a gross violation of public order showing obvious disrespect for society." She rejected their argument that they had no intention of offending Russian Orthodox believers.

The trio's defense lawyers said they would appeal.

Many in Russia's mainly Orthodox Christian society backed the authorities' demands for severe punishment, though some have said the women deserved clemency.

Putin, who returned to the presidency for a third term in May after a four-year spell as prime minister, has said the women did "nothing good" but should not be judged too harshly.

Witnesses say at least 24 people were detained by police in scuffles or for unfurling banners or donning ski masks in support of Pussy Riot outside the courtroom. Among those detained were Sergei Udaltsov, a leftist opposition leader, and Garry Kasparov, the chess great and vehement Putin critic.

"Shame on (Russian Orthodox Patriarch) Kirill, shame on Putin," Udaltsov said before he was detained.

"A disgraceful political reprisal is under way on the part of the authorities ... If we swallow this injustice, they can come for any one of us tomorrow."

The crowd of about 2,000 people outside the court was dominated by Pussy Riot supporters but also included some nationalists and religious believers demanding a tough sentence.

"Evil must be punished," said Maria Butilno, 60, who held an icon and said Pussy Riot had insulted the faithful.

An opinion poll of Russians released by the independent Levada research group on Friday showed only 6 percent had sympathy with the women, 51 percent said they found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility, and the rest were unable to say or were indifferent.

RADICAL PROTESTERS

Tolokonnikova, Alyokhina and Samutsevich are educated, middle-class Russians who say their protest was not intended to offend believers.

The charges against Pussy Riot raised concern abroad about freedom of speech in Russia two decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

"Today's sentence in the Pussy Riot case looks disproportionate to the actions," the U.S. Embassy in Moscow wrote on its Twitter microblog in Russian.

Protests in support of the group were planned in cities from Sydney to Paris, and New York to London. A crowd of several hundred gathered in a New York hotel late on Thursday to hear actress Chloe Sevigny and others read from letters, lyrics and court statements by the detained women.

In the centre of Kiev, a bare-chested feminist activist took a chainsaw to a wooden cross bearing a figure of Christ, while in Bulgaria, sympathizers put Pussy Riot-style masks on statues at a Soviet Army monument.

"Huge damage has been done to the country's image and attractiveness for investors," former Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin wrote in a message posted on his website.

Protest leaders say Putin will not relax pressure on opponents in his new six-year term. Parliament has already rushed through laws increasing fines for protesters, tightening controls on the Internet, and imposing stricter rules on defamation.

(Additional reporting by Nastassia Astrasheuskaya, Alissa de Carbonnel, Maria Tsvetkova, Thomas Grove and Steve Gutterman in Moscow and Olzhas Auyezov in Kiev; Editing by Alastair Macdonald and Will Waterman)

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:56 PM
didn't they break into a private property and defame religion in a sacred place? and they show no regret... since when religious hatred is a good thing?

i doubt that these three feminists who call themselves "pussy riot" can even play any instruments... :rolleyes:

They werent charged with breaking and entering, so that played no part in the sentencing. They were charged with religious hatred, something which you can do in pretty much any other first world country and get away with. The difference is here, their song critisized the close relationship between the church and Putin. They didnt actually attack religion in the song. Only Putin and how the church were his lapdogs. If they didnt mention Putin whatsoever I doubt they would have been thrown in jail for 2 years. If you think what they did is worth time in jail, enough said.

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:56 PM
and that's a good thing :lol: i think britain needs a putin

two years may be too much but they clearly committed a crime and were punished. end of the story.
IMO Mindsets like yours are pathetic . . . silly, except they're still too common.

Onslow
Aug 17th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Right, cause freedom of speech is so overrated.



As far as I know the church isn't a private property and they didn't sing/dance in any place that is forbiden for the laymen. Their song wasn't even targeted against religion but more against orthodx church authorities who get involved in politics (supporting Putin's presidency). How is that a religious hatred?
And what does playing instruments has to do with anything? :lol:


just for comparison... this is the church the us president goes to:

vdJB-qkfUHc

are you saying that it should be legal for me to walk in with a group of men (lets call it "penis riot"), take the stage and sing improvised "prayer" full of profanities asking jesus to throw out the president? would the whole media outside the us defend me and my freedom of speech or could there be a double standard here?

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:00 PM
just for comparison... this is the church the us president goes to:

vdJB-qkfUHc

are you saying that it should be legal for me to walk in with a group of men (lets call it "penis riot"), take the stage and sing improvised "prayer" full of profanities asking jesus to throw out the president? would the whole media outside the us defend me and my freedom of speech or could there be a double standard here?

Come back and make that comparison when Obama turns into a dictator manipulating the political and judicial systems to ensure he stays in power and his opponents are swept under the carpet.

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:01 PM
didn't they break into a private property and defame religion in a sacred place? and they show no regret... since when religious hatred is a good thing?

:facepalm: Religious hatred? :haha: Maybe you'd do well to learn what that means. Here's a clue - it does not mean protesting a religion or staging a protest in a church. If you need another clue - read up on Stalin.

Plus the point of there protest was Putin not religion. In fact, I'd bet that if they had been protesting religion and not Putin they'd have got off nearly scot-free.

BTW why is a repressed and repression-supporting person like you flying a UN flag?

Onslow
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:08 PM
Come back and make that comparison when Obama turns into a dictator manipulating the political and judicial systems to ensure he stays in power and his opponents are swept under the carpet.

dictator? last time i checked, putin had better approval ratings than obama...

Chris 84
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:12 PM
disgusting.

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:17 PM
dictator? last time i checked, putin had better approval ratings than obama...

From what we can judge, so did Stalin, Hitler, Mao. Today, the Kremlin's operatives typically stop stuffing ballot boxes when they reach 70%. Modern dictators understand that it is better to appear to win a contested election than to steal it openly.

Mr. Putin learned about dictatorship by watching one fail. As a young KGB officer stationed in Dresden in the late 1980s, he saw East Germany's harsh totalitarian state collapse around him. He was shocked, he later recalled, by how "totally invasive" the German Democratic Republic had been.

So Mr. Putin has worked in the seams of Russia's political system, centralizing power through channels that could at least appear to be democratic. Once he had used election laws to reduce the parliament to a rubber-stamp body, he created a new organization made up of legal, media and civil society experts to give him the feedback a legislature might—just without the power to vote.

"Putinism comes just for your political rights but does not touch your personal freedom," the opposition leader Boris Nemtsov told me. "You can travel, you can emigrate if you want, you can read the Internet. Communists blocked personal freedom plus political freedom. That's why communism looks much more stupid than Putinism."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303918204577448712747514378.html

azdaja
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:24 PM
Come back and make that comparison when Obama turns into a dictator manipulating the political and judicial systems to ensure he stays in power and his opponents are swept under the carpet.
i don't see how is that relevant. democracy and censorship don't go together anyway. we might as well pay attention to what's happening right now in and around the embassy of ecuador in london. comparing that to what's happening in moscow i think both cases are deplorable and it doesn't matter how democratic or not you think a country is. as a matter of fact putin's russia has become a good parody of western hypocrisy. you want to remove or censor someone? just accuse them of something else and voila!

the only problem is that this is pushing it to the extreme. pussy riot didn't do anything to warrant a prison sentence even if we ignore that this is clearly a politically motivated trial.

Onslow
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:37 PM
the only problem is that this is pushing it to the extreme. pussy riot didn't do anything to warrant a prison sentence even if we ignore that this is clearly a politically motivated trial.

do you specialize in russian criminal law or did you just pull that out of your ass? :p the fact that the western media is making it a talking point doesn't make it a political trial! i'm under impression that vast majority of russians were upset by what "pussy riot" did.

Super Dave
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:38 PM
If hooliganism gets you 19 months, what do you get for shenanigans?

olivero
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:41 PM
just for comparison... this is the church the us president goes to:

vdJB-qkfUHc

are you saying that it should be legal for me to walk in with a group of men (lets call it "penis riot"), take the stage and sing improvised "prayer" full of profanities asking jesus to throw out the president? would the whole media outside the us defend me and my freedom of speech or could there be a double standard here?

this video is actually hilarious :lol:
anyway the main difference is that this preacher (and this church) is not as influential in US as Ciril in Russia (at least that's what I'm hoping for :tape:) so the argument about connections between religion and government are irrelevant here.
Besides I honestly don't believe such act would cost you 2 years in prison in US.

pov
Aug 17th, 2012, 05:44 PM
do you specialize in russian criminal law or did you just pull that out of your ass? :p the fact that the western media is making it a talking point doesn't make it a political trial! i'm under impression that vast majority of russians were upset by what "pussy riot" did.

Your impression is incorrect. It's also irrelevant what the majority are upset by. As for it not being a political trial . . :facepalm: just how dense and/or self-deluding are you?

Monica_Rules
Aug 17th, 2012, 06:44 PM
Yet more evidence of Putins dictatorship. i love how hes played the system to stay in rule for so long

Saori Kimura Fan
Aug 17th, 2012, 07:15 PM
Yet more evidence of Putins dictatorship. i love how hes played the system to stay in rule for so long

I think his nickname POLONIUM PUTIN speaks volumes. I wouldn't like to cross a guy like this, especially without any back-up.

Curcubeu
Aug 17th, 2012, 07:24 PM
The verdict is of course completely out of proportions and another desperate try of the regime to prove its 'power' by punishing any free protest.

However, I can understand religious people feeling offended by that crap.

Chris 84
Aug 17th, 2012, 07:37 PM
i don't see how is that relevant. democracy and censorship don't go together anyway. we might as well pay attention to what's happening right now in and around the embassy of ecuador in london. comparing that to what's happening in moscow i think both cases are deplorable and it doesn't matter how democratic or not you think a country is. as a matter of fact putin's russia has become a good parody of western hypocrisy. you want to remove or censor someone? just accuse them of something else and voila!

the only problem is that this is pushing it to the extreme. pussy riot didn't do anything to warrant a prison sentence even if we ignore that this is clearly a politically motivated trial.

all so very true. we shouldn't let ourselves be tricked into thinking that this sort of thing is a "russian problem" an "eastern problem" or a "(post)communist problem". this kind of crap happens everywhere, and as you say, the assange stuff is a good comparison.

do you specialize in russian criminal law or did you just pull that out of your ass? :p the fact that the western media is making it a talking point doesn't make it a political trial! i'm under impression that vast majority of russians were upset by what "pussy riot" did.

russian criminal law has nothing to do with it. france (or paris anyway) has laws that you can't kiss on the metro. doesn't mean that a 2 year prison sentence for kissing would be justified.

ptkten
Aug 17th, 2012, 07:48 PM
I don't understand what Jeremiah Wright has anything to do with this. I can assure you in the U.S. if you wanted to walk into any church and sing a song saying we needed to get rid of Obama or Bush or whoever, it would be perfectly fine no matter what type of church it was. Maybe you would get a ticket for disturbing the peace but you certainly wouldn't get sent to jail for more than a few hours.

It's always fascinating to me when people try to defend censorship.

Also, it's hilarious that someone would try to compare approval ratings between Putin and Obama. If Obama had complete control over the media and polling agencies then he would have higher approval ratings too :lol:

azdaja
Aug 17th, 2012, 08:06 PM
do you specialize in russian criminal law or did you just pull that out of your ass? :p the fact that the western media is making it a talking point doesn't make it a political trial! i'm under impression that vast majority of russians were upset by what "pussy riot" did.
it doesn't matter if the majority was upset by it. in the past the majority also used to think women belong into kitchen :shrug:

all so very true. we shouldn't let ourselves be tricked into thinking that this sort of thing is a "russian problem" an "eastern problem" or a "(post)communist problem". this kind of crap happens everywhere, and as you say, the assange stuff is a good comparison.
it's still worse over there, it's just that plenty of people need to put it in the right context.

Also, it's hilarious that someone would try to compare approval ratings between Putin and Obama. If Obama had complete control over the media and polling agencies then he would have higher approval ratings too :lol:
but putin doesn't have "complete control over the media and polling agencies". people in russia have access to foreign media as well. they see laughable reports in the "free" meadia about the anti-nuclear shield built in poland and directed against iran, for example. it doesn't insult anyone's intelligence, does it? :scratch: but oh yeah, poor russians are just being manipulated by their dictator.

dybbuk
Aug 17th, 2012, 09:04 PM
Is someone actually seriously defending years in jail for three women who sang a song in a church for all of 40 seconds? I'm choosing to believe this is trolling, the alternative is to think Onslow is actually just a completely shitty person.

And "religious hatred," my ass. One of Pussy Riot's main points is the corruption of Christianity in Russia into another political tool of Putin's. Why would they care and be trying to return the Church back to the people if they hated it.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 17th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Ok I'm wondering since the church is privately owned these chicks haven't a leg to stand on, right? You do not have the freedom of speech in a private place if the owner of that place does not want you there. Like private news channels can censor whoever they wish since they are a private entity. If I don't want you on my property and you don't leave then that is a crime which these women perpetrated.

The law in Russia has a maximum prison sentence of 3 years, that's tough, that's just a law they have and are entitled to have as an independent state. I mean Ireland has no jaywalking laws and tons of countries do but I don't bitch about how unfair it is other countries fine you for such a minor thing like jaywalking.

And yes, laughable the UK wants to raid an embassy and has the audacity to criticize Russia over this :lol: Ecuador's diplomatic rights aren't respected in the UK. So the UK needs to STFU.

Joana
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:02 PM
Ok I'm wondering since the church is privately owned these chicks haven't a leg to stand on, right? You do not have the freedom of speech in a private place if the owner of that place does not want you there. Like private news channels can censor whoever they wish since they are a private entity. If I don't want you on my property and you don't leave then that is a crime which these women perpetrated.



They weren't charged with trespassing.

Seriously, how, how, HOW can anyone come even close to trying to justify this??? Regardless of what one thinks of Assange, human rights in Western democracies, diplomacy and all that jazz.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:02 PM
They werent charged on anything to do with the church being privately owned or trespassing, they were charged on 'hooliganism motivated by religious hatred'. And anyone who read the songs lurics know that they werent attacking christianity, as someone else put it already, its the corruption of the church and their very close ties and support for Putin that they were attacking.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:03 PM
They weren't charged with trespassing.

Seriously, how, how, HOW can anyone come even close to trying to justify this??? Regardless of what one thinks of Assange, human rights in Western democracies, diplomacy and all that jazz.

Thats what Im trying to figure out :lol:

KournikovaFan91
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:05 PM
They weren't charged with trespassing.

Seriously, how, how, HOW can anyone come even close to trying to justify this??? Regardless of what one thinks of Assange, human rights in Western democracies, diplomacy and all that jazz.

Well then theres a charge they should slap on them. Which if I was the church I would want on them.

Also coming from a country with a law against blasphemy I'm not going to judge and don't think the Irish political elite can either :tape:

In comparison with the UK threatening the diplomatic rights of Ecuador this is a non-story. That is a far bigger issue and has no thread here :shrug:

Madonna should STFU after all she criticized Sinead O'Connor for ripping up the Pope's picture. Hardly liberal then was she. :rolleyes: Attention seeking as usual from granny.

edificio
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:06 PM
and then real criminals are free :lol:

and banking millions, too

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:13 PM
Well then theres a charge they should slap on them. Which if I was the church I would want on them.

Also coming from a country with a law against blasphemy I'm not going to judge and don't think the Irish political elite can either :tape:

In comparison with the UK threatening the diplomatic rights of Ecuador this is a non-story. That is a far bigger issue and has no thread here :shrug:

Even the church they offended thinks the sentence is too harsh, apparently they were asking for 'mercy' for them.

The comparison with Ireland makes no sense whatsoever, we also have a law its illegal to knock down any webbed creature on the road :lol: Every country has a load of outdated laws that make no sense. The church has been ridiculed here for years, everyone knows how popular Father Ted was. A DJ on national radio said the chruch fucked up the country on live radio and there were barely any complaints. I highly doubt anybody here would get prosecuted for this in a million years these days.

King Halep
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:14 PM
In comparison with the UK threatening the diplomatic rights of Ecuador this is a non-story. That is a far bigger issue and has no thread here :shrug:



I posted it in the US political section and apparently the Americans have absolutely no interest in it

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:18 PM
America is rapidly heading the same way. Quite disgusting the way UK is threatening to violate Ecuador's diplomatic status. Imagine if another country threatened to invade UK or American embassy. Assange case is same as Russian one, the Americans and their Swedish collaborators have created some fake charges to extradite Assange. At least Russian band was charged with hooliganism or insulting Putin, Assange is charged with not using condom. Swedish collaborators put out an Interpol red alert for him, not even Gaddafi got an Interpol red alert :haha::haha:

The U.S. is far too divided politically and culturally to be heading towards the corruption or level of dictatorship on the level thats going on in Russia. Yes, there are also huge controversies and things being covered up over there, but the gap between the left and right will always be too large. Whoever is in power over there will always have a large political enemy on the other side, something which isnt there in Russia.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Putin said he wanted leniency too. This judge is a member of the judiciary so made this decision herself.

If someone did that in a major church in Ireland the Joe Duffy show would go berserk the next day and rightly so in my opinion. People shouldn't be allowed walk into any private property and show shit about it's inhabitants or what the building represents and I'm not religious but I'd never do that because its disrespectful.

Like on the camera there are old women in that church who I'm sure were offended by these chicks and I think they have a right to be offended. Protest in the street outside if you have a problem which is a public area not the premises.

Personally I think these chicks are guilty of trespassing regardless of the crime they were convicted of so for the media to portray them as angels is completely inaccurate.

And the West attempting to invade democratic Ecuador's embassy is an actual issue in the world not this, which once politics resumes fully after the summer will be completely forgotten about. The UK's attitude could effect the entire way global diplomacy is carried out. Where's the thread for that?

Also the reaction of some people on twitter to this is laughable, a minute ago an Irish Z-Lister tweeted they'd probably get life imprisonment for their tweets :lol: Her dumbass tweets about pop-culture and her cooking ability would probably be allowed in North Korea they're so mundane. Now she is a warrior for free speech :lol: Been meaning to unfollow said person for a while and this spurred me to it.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:26 PM
Thats what Putin is saying in public :lol: Same goes for the church. Whos to say they're not both lying? 2 years prison is a bit crazy for being 'disrespectful'. A fine, whatever, but jail time? If you want to defend it though, your business. Make the thread about Ecuador yourself then, its all you seem to want to bang on about :shrug:

King Halep
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:27 PM
I think the last few years have shown that no matter which side is in power, they are serving the interest of business. Assange has been trying to expose how large corporations are going to gain even more control of the internet and people's minds. Thats why they want him out of the way and the American government is going to extraordinary lengths to get him.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:31 PM
Thats what Putin is saying in public :lol: Same goes for the church. Whos to say they're not both lying? 2 years prison is a bit crazy for being 'disrespectful'. A fine, whatever, but jail time? If you want to defend it though, your business. Make the thread about Ecuador yourself then, its all you seem to want to bang on about :shrug:

Ehh people have been sent the Joy here for not having a dog license. :rolleyes:

The Ecuadorian situation is a global issue, this is a best a national issue in Russia.

As for "Thats what Putin is saying in public" is exactly the response the west gives to leaders who don't suit them whether it be Putin, Chavez, Fernandez, Correa, Morales, etc. When we can't get them on anything else we just claim they're lying in public.

Ferg
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:33 PM
Sorry to break your bubble, politicians EVERYWHERE get accused of lying on a daily basis, mostly by their own media :lol: Its not just something the west does to other countries.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:41 PM
In 2010 over 500 people were imprisoned in Ireland for not paying fines relating to Dog/TV licenses and parking tickets. The first two things I've actually never had so if I disappear for a while from this forum i'll be in the Joy.

So to begin changing the world how about you petition your TD to change the ridiculous legal system we have here where you get 6 months for sexual assault and prison stays for no dog license before sticking your oar in Russia's legal system.

Also Ireland's special criminal court is the most unjust court in the Western world. You can be imprisoned without Gardai stating where they got the evidence, with no witnesses and no jury. A Garda saying they know your a member of the IRA is enough for imprisonment and the onus is on you to prove otherwise.

Amnesty International, and the UN have criticized our legal system in regards the Special Criminal Court.
If a country East of Germany or South of Texas had that kind of a court politicians would be going crazy.

So if you'd like to start reforming laws how about starting right here.

King Halep
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:44 PM
Sounds like Sweden legal system

Sam L
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:22 AM
I hope they're not imprisoned. I went to this cathedral just a few weeks ago. So beautiful but a sad history.

Joana
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:45 AM
Like on the camera there are old women in that church who I'm sure were offended by these chicks and I think they have a right to be offended. Protest in the street outside if you have a problem which is a public area not the premises.


But, but, but... what if there are old women in the street outside who might be offended?! :speakles:

The Dawntreader
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:48 AM
But, but, but... what if there are old women in the street outside who might be offended?! :speakles:

This. What's so offensive about protests?

Ferg
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:52 AM
I think the simple answer is some people think all these countries portrayed in a negative light by the big, bad, evil western media and governments must be defended, they cant do any wrong, everything bad they do is blown out of proportion by our evil governements trying to keep us all brainwashed. Giving two years in prison to protestors and then arresting and beating people who protest against that court ruling is totally acceptable. Of course if this happened in the US or UK they would be outraged.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 18th, 2012, 01:23 AM
When the West's attitude "Do as I say not as I do" changes then the Western media will have some level of credibility. Whereas all it does is currently select the news stories for the benefit of their respective countries yet when RT, Telesur and Al Jazeera make similar editorial decisions they are seen as puppets of their respective states.


But, but, but... what if there are old women in the street outside who might be offended?! :speakles:

Its a public place so therefore everyone has their freedom to protest there imo but not on private property. Property rights must be upheld. These girls didn't give a shit about the owners of the property they launched the protest on. If they had done this in say a public building I think thats fine.

Another home example where freedom of speech was not upheld was a sit down protest in an Irish government building lobby where they where subsequently forcibly removed, the building in question was a public place and those people should have been permitted to remain their indefinitely. Had it been a private office building, I would agree with the forcible removal.

These girls may not be guilty of "hooliganism" and frankly unless someone here is well versed in Russian law we really don't know but their "protest" in a holy shrine which is private property is tasteless at best. :o

For the record I actually hoped Medvedev would be able to run for a second term as president I prefer him to Putin however 63% of Russians wanted Putin so I respect their decision.

ptkten
Aug 18th, 2012, 01:28 AM
I think the simple answer is some people think all these countries portrayed in a negative light by the big, bad, evil western media and governments must be defended, they cant do any wrong, everything bad they do is blown out of proportion by our evil governements trying to keep us all brainwashed. Giving two years in prison to protestors and then arresting and beating people who protest against that court ruling is totally acceptable. Of course if this happened in the US or UK they would be outraged.

Exactly. The only reason they're agreeing with their decision is because Putin did it. If Obama imprisoned someone for two years for the same thing, we would hear about how he's the second coming of the devil. I'm also not a brainwashed westerner. There are many things I disagree with that the U.S does, such as the wars in the middle east, our support for dictatorships when it suits our interest, certain detention techniques etc. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that the west, including the U.S. has much better protections for free speech than countries like Russia. This kind of thing just would never happen in the U.S.

The Dawntreader
Aug 18th, 2012, 01:35 AM
For the record I actually hoped Medvedev would be able to run for a second term as president I prefer him to Putin however 63% of Russians wanted Putin so I respect their decision.

I don't. They have elected a federal police state now.

olivero
Aug 18th, 2012, 06:54 AM
Its a public place so therefore everyone has their freedom to protest there imo but not on private property. Property rights must be upheld. These girls didn't give a shit about the owners of the property they launched the protest on. If they had done this in say a public building I think thats fine.


How is church a private property? I mean it is owned/runned by the church but AFAIK it's a public space. At least in Poland.
How can you defend 2 years of jail for something like that? It's insane!


Few years ago in Poland we had a similar case about an artist who made an instalation with a penis placed on a cross (it was a part of her bigger work) in the gallery. There was a huge scandal and she was convicted (!) for six months of social works because of offending people's religious feelings. Luckily later she appealed and in the end was found not guilty. The case lasted few years though. So these things do happen in other countries but it doesn't change the fact it's outrageous and 2 years in prison is just absolutely not comparable to their crime.

pla
Aug 18th, 2012, 07:12 AM
Granny offence :lol: I've heard it all. Old people should be offended that state agents from Soviet times are church representatives, that those agents sing to the glory of another ex-agent and that the church has so much money while the average granny can't even eat properly and pay some bills. That's what should offend them, not three young women.

Chrissie-fan
Aug 18th, 2012, 09:16 AM
Great to see that after decades of glossy MTV and Simon Cowell nonsense rock'n'roll is back to being a pain in the ass to the powers that be.

A Magicman
Aug 18th, 2012, 09:22 AM
They intruded the holiest place of Russian Orthodoxy and entered the place where only high priests are allowed to be shouting "The Church is God's Shit".

That would qualify them for 2 years of prison in Germany. If the church wanted to sue them for "Severe home invasion".

But of course it wouldn't here, cos as the protestants a lot of strange and funny things happen in the churches all day long.

pla
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:11 AM
^^ I seriously doubt that the priests in German churches have something in common with some doubtful, to say the least, regimes from the past :) This is the true problem and of course their peculiar attachment to politics and one particular leader :lol:

Ferg
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:14 AM
They actually only went up on the alter, I read they did not intrude on the sacred place behind some veil where only the high priests are allowed, if they did, it would have been more serious regarding sacrilige. They filmed it on the alter which is open to everyone.

The Crow
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:23 AM
They intruded the holiest place of Russian Orthodoxy and entered the place where only high priests are allowed to be shouting "The Church is God's Shit".


Male high priests, I presume? :tape: Another reason to protest imo.

Beat
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Its a public place so therefore everyone has their freedom to protest there

obviously not in russia, if the footage from outside the court i saw on TV last night was anything to go by: people got arrested. one of them was garry kasparow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19300149

Just Do It
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:05 AM
Such a dictatorship in 21th century in a European country. :tape: Putin needs to be dealt with.

Russia and Europe have nothing in common. Russia is a whole new world.
What are you complaining about? They for sure need to be sentenced, not 3 years for sure and I bet they won't get 3 years, but making a mess in Church and spreading hate on the president and his government should be punished. If Russia's people elected Putin, those pussies need to be quiet.
In USA you get 3 years for stealing a mobile phone while in Norway you get 20 years for killing 100 people or whatever. Bigger countries, like US, Russia or China need to have a strict prison policy otherwise those countries would drown in crime.

Ferg
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:08 AM
Russia and Europe have nothing in common. Russia is a whole new world.
What are you complaining about? They for sure need to be sentenced, not 3 years for sure and I bet they won't get 3 years, but making a mess in Church and spreading hate on the president and his government should be punished. If Russia's people elected Putin, those pussies need to be quiet.In USA you get 3 years for stealing a mobile phone while in Norway you get 20 years for killing 100 people or whatever. Bigger countries, like US, Russia or China need to have a strict prison policy otherwise those countries would drown in crime.

Are you suggesting that elected governments shouldnt have any opposition? :facepalm: And calling Putin's government 'elected' is even a stretch...

saint2
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Thats typical for Putinist KGB regime. I really hope one day that man will pay for everything he done. Im not suprised that Korunikovafan, and some other Russia-loving morons react that way. I guess in their opinion russian govt don't have anything to do with Politkovskaya and Litvinienko deaths either.

Sam L
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:29 AM
They intruded the holiest place of Russian Orthodoxy and entered the place where only high priests are allowed to be shouting "The Church is God's Shit".

That would qualify them for 2 years of prison in Germany. If the church wanted to sue them for "Severe home invasion".

But of course it wouldn't here, cos as the protestants a lot of strange and funny things happen in the churches all day long.

Do they even have services there? I thought the holiest was Cathedral of the Dormition?

Just Do It
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Are you suggesting that elected governments shouldnt have any opposition? :facepalm: And calling Putin's government 'elected' is even a stretch...

Opposition doesn't storm in Churches and make a mess. And yes, Putin got much more than 50% on the latest elections, everything was fair, even western observers confirmed it so everyone needs to be silenced on that matter. Leave Russian people to elect their leaders, don't whine if you are not happy with it because you are not Russian and you don't have the right to vote.

pla
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Russia and Europe have nothing in common. Russia is a whole new world.
What are you complaining about? They for sure need to be sentenced, not 3 years for sure and I bet they won't get 3 years, but making a mess in Church and spreading hate on the president and his government should be punished. If Russia's people elected Putin, those pussies need to be quiet.
In USA you get 3 years for stealing a mobile phone while in Norway you get 20 years for killing 100 people or whatever. Bigger countries, like US, Russia or China need to have a strict prison policy otherwise those countries would drown in crime.

Really? Nothing? Are you sure? Btw, which part of Russia, Kaliningrad, Moscow, Makhachkala or Vladivostok?

They made no mess in the church, didn't destroy anything, didn't penetrate the oltar etc. And btw, the fact that you can find crazy stuff around the world doesn't make up for an excuse for another crazy and shameful act. You know, during communist times we had this saying when Americans were criticizing our regime: "Yeah, but you beat your blacks"- your post is just the same :D

saint2
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:35 AM
Opposition doesn't storm in Churches and make a mess. And yes, Putin got much more than 50% on the latest elections, everything was fair, even western observers confirmed it so everyone needs to be silenced on that matter. Leave Russian people to elect their leaders, don't whine if you are not happy with it because you are not Russian and you don't have the right to vote.

If Russian people are allright with having modern day Hitler as their leader...

Just Do It
Aug 18th, 2012, 11:38 AM
Really? Nothing? Are you sure? Btw, which part of Russia, Kaliningrad, Moscow, Makhachkala or Vladivostok?

They made no mess in the church, didn't destroy anything, didn't penetrate the oltar etc. And btw, the fact that you can find crazy stuff around the world doesn't make up for an excuse for another crazy and shameful act. You know, during communist times we had this saying when Americans were criticizing our regime: "Yeah, but you beat your blacks"- your post is just the same :D
I know geography very well, I didn't mean it generally. I wanted to stress that life in Russia and Europe is completely different.
If Russian people are allright with having modern day Hitler as their leader...
That is their choice and we should respect it.They have a reason why they voted Putin in such big numbers.

pla
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:00 PM
I know geography very well, I didn't mean it generally. I wanted to stress that life in Russia and Europe is completely different.

Again, it depends which part of Europe you are referring to. In some countries people try to fight the same way of life/politics which was imposed in Russia, so they live quite similarly. Look at my flag for example.

A Magicman
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Male high priests, I presume? :tape: Another reason to protest imo.

Of course. The bible is quite clear on that matter and last time I checked, Christianity was referring to the bible.

gulzhan
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:48 PM
The girls did commit a crime, it's not disputed. If they did the same in any country of the world, they would have been arrested.

2 years in jail is too harsh though. It wasn't smart of Putin to let the justice system make these girls heroes and victims. I watched the video and didn't like them, sorry. But again, jail sentence is cruel for such a crime.

FedererBulgaria
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:52 PM
Pоссия :tape:

humanabstract
Aug 18th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Well, I wouldn't go into politics or justify this girls.
What is really-really sad is that how imperfect, rotten and corrupted Russian legal system and law is. What can be said when girls are sentenced for 2 years for "singing and dancing" in church, while rapists and pedophiles can go away with conditional sentences, while drunk drivers kills several people at the bus stops or on the crosswalks and sentenced for the same 2-3 years (and even sometimes no real sentence) for that and actually can drive car again after imprisonment, when people at high positions or their relatives are judged fairly for such crimes only after public attention.
Haha and how it's convenient and hypocritical from russian church to ask authorities to show mercy and soften the sentence for PR after the trial is already over :facepalm::haha:

pov
Aug 18th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Interesting thread. While I'm aware that there are many who still support totalitarianism as well as draconian governmental and legal frameworks, I guess I'm surprised to find those mindsets on a women's tennis site.

olivero
Aug 18th, 2012, 02:58 PM
They for sure need to be sentenced, not 3 years for sure and I bet they won't get 3 years, but making a mess in Church and spreading hate on the president and his government should be punished. If Russia's people elected Putin, those pussies need to be quiet.


No. They should have every right to express their opinion about their leader. No matter if he got 50% or 99% of the votes in the elections. Their action was obviously controversial so make them pay a fine, but 2 years in jail is just wrong.

saint2
Aug 18th, 2012, 03:19 PM
BTW- isn't it ironic that we needed a wannabe-punk band arrest to make public opinion pay attention about totalitarianism in Russia ? These girls are actually very lucky. They got 3 years. Some people paid their lives for being in opposition to Putin.

pov
Aug 18th, 2012, 03:20 PM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/what-does-it-mean-to-be-charged-with-hooliganism

Peter B. Maggs, law professor and Russian law expert, tells BuzzFeed Shift that the Russian legal code identifies two types of hooliganism: petty and criminal. Petty hooliganism is more or less like disorderly conduct — Maggs says 90% of those convicted for this offense are "obnoxious drunks." The punishment is usually a fine or brief imprisonment.

Criminal hooliganism is more serious. It has to be "a gross violation of public order, showing a disrespect for society." It must involve weapons or objects used as weapons, or be done for motives of political, ideological, racial, national, or religious hatred, or hatred toward a social group. It can carry a sentence of up to 5 years if committed by an individual, or 7 years if committed by an organized group.


[]


But in the US, what Pussy Riot did wouldn't be a crime in the first place.

Burnham adds that some types of hooliganism wouldn't be a crime in the US at all: "public expressions, in song or otherwise, of religious or political animosity would not be punishable in the US because it would be protected speech under the First Amendment." They might, however, be classified as "hate speech" in some countries in western Europe.

It's not clear if Pussy Riot would've been prosecuted for their performance elsewhere in Europe — but their conviction may be part of a uniquely Russian phenomenon. Maggs says that in cases like Pussy Riot's, "once there's been a decision to prosecute, the outcome is a foregone conclusion." So once someone's been arrested for a high-profile crime that involves criticizing the government, the government will make sure they get convicted — a truly fair trial may not be possible. Maggs adds that Pussy Riot's real crime was "showing disrespect for the regime," and that such disrespect has become more common in Russia in the wake of allegations of voter fraud. So more cases like Pussy Riot's could be coming soon.

Onslow
Aug 18th, 2012, 03:37 PM
:facepalm: Religious hatred? :haha: Maybe you'd do well to learn what that means. Here's a clue - it does not mean protesting a religion or staging a protest in a church. If you need another clue - read up on Stalin.

Plus the point of there protest was Putin not religion. In fact, I'd bet that if they had been protesting religion and not Putin they'd have got off nearly scot-free.


HRNZff6SlRs

:rolleyes:

wta_zuperfann
Aug 18th, 2012, 06:23 PM
3 years for Hooliganism? In the UK, hooligans are known as artists.


The UK is just as bad as shown in this incident:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls-men-jailed


Four years in jail for a joke that which was retracted and which did NOT cause any violence.

Well, come to think of it, the USA is just as bad since it has brutal police beating up and arresting peaceful Occupy Wall Street protestors who did no harm except to exercise their constitutional right of free speech.

azdaja
Aug 18th, 2012, 06:29 PM
this thread is totally unfunny. on one hand, there are people who defend this verdict. true, laws of other european countries (but not of the us) provide for similar sentences but pushing them through would discredit the laws, the church and everyone who would support them. and this is definitely a politically motivated trial.

on the other hand you have people who go to the other extreme and behave as if putin in person tried these girls. then saying how putin was not elected. the elections may have not been perfectly free but there is little doubt that he enjoys support of most russians and it would be a valuable question why since that might give you a few ideas how to help russian dissidents in a meaningful way. then there is the obligatory comparison to hitler (aka useless moralising). i think people who see hitlers all over the place are precisely like those who let the original one take over back in the day. then russia is called a totalitarian state even though north korea is the only totalitarian regime in the world today. there are significant differences between an authoritarian and a totalitarian regime, this is why different terms are used.

fifty-fifty
Aug 18th, 2012, 07:26 PM
I am not defending the verdict but a few years ago two guys were sentenced to 6 years for painting swastikas on synagogue in Russia.

http://www.newsru.com/crime/05jun2009/bonssina6ysentural.html

The Crow
Aug 18th, 2012, 09:03 PM
Of course. The bible is quite clear on that matter and last time I checked, Christianity was referring to the bible.

Oh yeah right the bible. I always forget about that 'holy' book. Btw wasn't that written by males as well? :tape:

ys
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:14 PM
Law is a law. I do commiserate for these stupid sluts' unreasonably harsh sentence, but comparing to, say, lack of common sense in, for instance, sentencing of Marissa Alexander, this is nothing, really.

*JR*
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:27 PM
Law is a law. I do commiserate for these stupid sluts' unreasonably harsh sentence..

I presume that PP (err, President Putin) will commute their sentences to time served B4 they've been in jail a year (including the 6 months they've served awaiting trial).

Miracle Worker
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:29 PM
I'm just wondering, what would happen if some band's members do the same thing in USA? Just imagine that 3 naked ladies start shouting in Washington that "God should save USA and remove Obama" or something like this...

IIRC Dixie Chicks few years ago did something like this, but in very cultural way and of course in their case no one talked about jail or anything like this.

ys
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:29 PM
I presume that PP (err, President Putin) will commute their sentences to time served B4 they've been in jail a year (including the 6 months they've served awaiting trial).

I don't care. This is much ado about nothing.

saint2
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:38 PM
I'm just wondering, what would happen if some band's members do the same thing in USA? Just imagine that 3 naked ladies start shouting in Washington that "God should save USA and remove Obama" or something like this...


Well, there were plenty of artists in USA bashing Bush before...And there are also some who are bashing Obama now. Neither of them gone to jail.

dybbuk
Aug 19th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Law is a law. I do commiserate for these stupid sluts' unreasonably harsh sentence, but comparing to, say, lack of common sense in, for instance, sentencing of Marissa Alexander, this is nothing, really.

You seriously just called them sluts? Classy.

Hurley
Aug 19th, 2012, 12:50 AM
Yeah, ys's brain has...broken lately. He's so impolite these days, which is unfathomable to me given how courteous he used to be. It's almost like someone hacked his account.

And yes, Onslow is obvious troll is obvious. Formerly banned poster no doubt.

Number19
Aug 19th, 2012, 01:05 AM
I'm just wondering, what would happen if some band's members do the same thing in USA? Just imagine that 3 naked ladies start shouting in Washington that "God should save USA and remove Obama" or something like this...


Don't know about naked ladies, but old guys with guns have said worse or implied as much:

"If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will be either be dead or in jail by this time next year."

"Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun."

"Back in my country, my president is trying to pass a gun ban,” he said. “So he’s staging all of these murders, like the Fast and Furious thing down at the border and Aurora, Colorado, all the people that were killed there. And now the beautiful people at the Sikh temple.”

ys
Aug 19th, 2012, 06:32 AM
You seriously just called them sluts? Classy.

Because they are. I could give you some links depicting them in certain positions , but I would be banned for that here because those pictures classify as _porn_ .

ys
Aug 19th, 2012, 06:34 AM
I'm just wondering, what would happen if some band's members do the same thing in USA? Just imagine that 3 naked ladies start shouting in Washington that "God should save USA and remove Obama" or something like this...

Better guess what would happen if they did an equivalent in our favorite and friendly Saudi Arabia. My guess, they'd get they heads cut off quicker than you can ever imagine.

Vartan
Aug 19th, 2012, 06:52 AM
I'm just wondering, what would happen if some band's members do the same thing in USA? Just imagine that 3 naked ladies start shouting in Washington that "God should save USA and remove Obama" or something like this...

IIRC Dixie Chicks few years ago did something like this, but in very cultural way and of course in their case no one talked about jail or anything like this.

Look up WBC.

Tennis Fool
Aug 19th, 2012, 07:04 AM
Yeah, ys's brain has...broken lately. He's so impolite these days, which is unfathomable to me given how courteous he used to be. It's almost like someone hacked his account.


Not sure if serious :unsure:

saint2
Aug 19th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Better guess what would happen if they did an equivalent in our favorite and friendly Saudi Arabia. My guess, they'd get they heads cut off quicker than you can ever imagine.

In Saudi Arabia blasphemy means death. BUT, these pussies weren't sentenced for insulting relligion. They were sentenced for insulting Putin. Actually, if it was "only" about relligion, they'd be free now.

Timariot
Aug 19th, 2012, 10:23 AM
Lots of people are being rather clueless about this. They were charged with religious defamation, of which maximum sentence is SEVEN years. Now, personally, I think that the punishments allowable by the law are somewhat absurd (as in this case), but it was a pre-existing law which had nothing to do with Putin and the sentence was from softer end of the scale. They would have been trialled, charged and likely punished just the same under non-Putin regime.

Beat
Aug 19th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Better guess what would happen if they did an equivalent in our favorite and friendly Saudi Arabia. My guess, they'd get they heads cut off quicker than you can ever imagine.

yeah, it's always a great idea to make comparisons to the most unfree countries of this world to make one's own system look better.

Timariot
Aug 19th, 2012, 10:41 AM
But in the US, what Pussy Riot did wouldn't be a crime in the first place.


Actually it almost certainly would. Whereas US does not have blasphemy or 'hate speech' laws (like most of the Europe does), going creating disturbances is still punishable, though we're probably talking about a modest fine, at least for a first-timer.

Beat
Aug 19th, 2012, 10:45 AM
did you know they haven't seen their children since being put in jail awaiting trial and that they might lose custody?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/jail_riot_gals_may_lose_kids_Qp6mm4maE1sO16Vh1PCvm N#ixzz23y3y8ksH

fifty-fifty
Aug 19th, 2012, 12:54 PM
In Saudi Arabia blasphemy means death. BUT, these pussies weren't sentenced for insulting relligion. They were sentenced for insulting Putin. Actually, if it was "only" about relligion, they'd be free now.

Let me repeat once again. Two guys who painted swastikas on synagogue in Russia were give 6 years in prison.

http://www.newsru.com/crime/05jun2009/bonssina6ysentural.html

Crazy Canuck
Aug 19th, 2012, 07:10 PM
I am not defending the verdict but a few years ago two guys were sentenced to 6 years for painting swastikas on synagogue in Russia.

http://www.newsru.com/crime/05jun2009/bonssina6ysentural.html

I wish they'd find the people running around my neighborhood painting swastikas all over everything and do the same.

tennisbum79
Aug 19th, 2012, 10:15 PM
yeah, it's always a great idea to make comparisons to the most unfree countries of this world to make one's own system look better.
ys does not actually support Putin, he despises outlaws, leeches, pararistes in Russian society.:devil:

On this issue .. and many others (where political is repressed) in the past, ys and Putin agree:devil:

:lol:But anything you, do not go around call him a supporter of Putin:lol:
They are just protecting Russia from the undesirables, western-inlfuenced freeloaders

fifty-fifty
Aug 22nd, 2012, 03:01 AM
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/383879_10151045448148542_861096702_n.jpg

Kəv.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:29 AM
Andrea Petkovic ‏@andreapetkovic
What a SHAME! Free PUSSY RIOT!

So thats what this is about :spit:

King Halep
Aug 22nd, 2012, 07:33 AM
Sveta also tweeted about it but she had to make it very tame in case she also gets dragged away.

Beat
Aug 22nd, 2012, 11:50 AM
ys does not actually support Putin, he despises outlaws, leeches, pararistes in Russian society.:devil:

i guess that's a description of people with opinions that diverge from putin's. right?

the choice of words alone is quasi-fascist, to be quite frank.

NashaMasha
Aug 22nd, 2012, 10:53 PM
for those who know this story from CNN i will just explain in short everything concernin Pussy Riot

1) Putin has been cheating both on elections to Duma (house of representatives) and later on President elections. He actually has 40% support here and about 30% for his party, but eventually he won elections without need of second tour and in federel legislature body his party got more 50 % places, enough to make laws without discussions What is more our new "designated by Medvedev" Patriarch Kirill fiercely took part in the elections campaign , absolutely explicit calling for voting for Putin. He was making statements on TV adressed to the Russian orthodox (more than 80% of the country) to vote for Putin.....

Now just imagine Roman Pope encouraging voting for Mitt Romney ? What reaction he wanted from orthodox christians who are not Putins stans?

Eventually a group of provocative singers decided to make a political action in the main cathedral (which was build by corrupted Moscow governor Lushkov 10 years ago and which is not just a cathedral but a combination of business center , church and even garage and not that much respected as sacred place) . In their song in the cathedral they protested against murder of Russian Church with the Government and against corrupted with tarnished reputation Kirill and also against Putin , who against constitution became president for the 3d time ......

there were nothing againt orthodox, against Christ or anything concerning religion in their song, they were protesting against exact people and their exact actions ....

Eventually what was initially political was considered by corrupted court (who designates Chief Justice of Supreme Court of Russia ? yes , since 2012 P-U-T-I-N) non political and called "insult to russian orthodox" etc and they got 2 years of prison... (their wrongdoing worth in reality 15 days in prison as a minor hooliganism according our laws , but not this time)

But they weren't be alone, almost against all prominant opposition activists were initiated criminal proceedings and very soon almost everyone among politicians who doesn't want to obey blindly Putin or stay mutely may join Hodorkovski and Pussy Riot in prison

But at the same time , apart from politics , life in Russia is the same as in the democratic countries. There is no feeling of USSR and KGB in the streets and people are free , except agitating against Putin in the streets

PS personal opinion: it's a disgrace for my country, something close to dissidents period in the USSR with Rastropovic and Solzhenicyn having to escape abroad

ys
Aug 24th, 2012, 12:17 AM
Just a few notes.
1. Those are the girls who had no problems engaging in a group sex in a public place. Just so that you would have an idea of a level of morality we are talking about. Those are people without slightest respect to others or to anything.

2. The defamation of religious institutions have always been punished quite severely in Russia. Few years ago few hooligans who drawn swastikas on a synagogue got 6 years ( why was no one screaming for freedom of speech and expression back then around here, huh? )

3. Those who think that those people are just anti-Putin, you are confused. Not really, they are even more anti-West. An excellent insight on this is given in this article from International Herald Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
I am not in full agreement with author's opinions, but I do agree with most of it. That these people are mostly and primarily for "freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. "
In a gist, it is a 100% match with the ideas of original Russian Bolshevist Communism, which - in its early stages - manifested itself exactly in total disregard to traditions, religion, morality, family, property, decency. I am not surprised that most of liberals around here are in total support of them, as those are exactly the things that modern liberalism wholeheartedly supports.

KournikovaFan91
Aug 24th, 2012, 05:03 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/24/13454525-copycat-pussy-riot-protesters-could-face-3-year-sentence-in-germany

Seems the maximum sentence in Germany is also 3 years.

saint2
Aug 24th, 2012, 08:54 PM
Just a few notes.
1. Those are the girls who had no problems engaging in a group sex in a public place. Just so that you would have an idea of a level of morality we are talking about. Those are people without slightest respect to others or to anything.

2. The defamation of religious institutions have always been punished quite severely in Russia. Few years ago few hooligans who drawn swastikas on a synagogue got 6 years ( why was no one screaming for freedom of speech and expression back then around here, huh? )

3. Those who think that those people are just anti-Putin, you are confused. Not really, they are even more anti-West. An excellent insight on this is given in this article from International Herald Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
I am not in full agreement with author's opinions, but I do agree with most of it. That these people are mostly and primarily for "freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. "
In a gist, it is a 100% match with the ideas of original Russian Bolshevist Communism, which - in its early stages - manifested itself exactly in total disregard to traditions, religion, morality, family, property, decency. I am not surprised that most of liberals around here are in total support of them, as those are exactly the things that modern liberalism wholeheartedly supports.

2 years of lagr. For insulting Putin....

Sergius
Aug 25th, 2012, 10:07 PM
Just a few notes.
1. Those are the girls who had no problems engaging in a group sex in a public place. Just so that you would have an idea of a level of morality we are talking about. Those are people without slightest respect to others or to anything.
:rolleyes:
as far as I know only one of them took part in that pornographic story :lol:

2. The defamation of religious institutions have always been punished quite severely in Russia. Few years ago few hooligans who drawn swastikas on a synagogue got 6 years ( why was no one screaming for freedom of speech and expression back then around here, huh? )
well, um I dunno, maybe because drawing swastikas on a synagogue should be clearly qualified as vandalism (article 214 of Russian penal code). The girls, OTOH, were accused of hooliganism, so the prosecutors were to prove PR had the extremist motives (hatred towards religion), and they clearly failed to do that. Extremist motive is one of the obligatory part of hooliganism acc. to the Russian legislation.
So maybe you shouldn't speculate about things you're not familiar with :lol:

fifty-fifty
Aug 25th, 2012, 10:55 PM
:rolleyes:
as far as I know only one of them took part in that pornographic story :lol:


well, um I dunno, maybe because drawing swastikas on a synagogue should be clearly qualified as vandalism (article 214 of Russian penal code). The girls, OTOH, were accused of hooliganism, so the prosecutors were to prove PR had the extremist motives (hatred towards religion), and they clearly failed to do that. Extremist motive is one of the obligatory part of hooliganism acc. to the Russian legislation.
So maybe you shouldn't speculate about things you're not familiar with :lol:

So 6 years in prison is ok for vandalism?

King Halep
Aug 25th, 2012, 11:42 PM
:rolleyes:
as far as I know only one of them took part in that pornographic story :lol:


well, um I dunno, maybe because drawing swastikas on a synagogue should be clearly qualified as vandalism (article 214 of Russian penal code). The girls, OTOH, were accused of hooliganism, so the prosecutors were to prove PR had the extremist motives (hatred towards religion), and they clearly failed to do that. Extremist motive is one of the obligatory part of hooliganism acc. to the Russian legislation.
So maybe you shouldn't speculate about things you're not familiar with :lol:

dont waste your time on that fool

Matt-TennisFan24
Aug 26th, 2012, 03:36 AM
Am I the only one who thinks them being sentenced is not, as a whole, a wrong thing?

Yes, 2 years is a bit TOO MUCH, but in my opinion, these girls totally crossed the line. I mean, entering a church with masks, singing against the President and against religion, and invoking Virgin Mary to take Putin away?

I do get Putin might be a dictator (I'm not sure, I dont live in Russia) but this band could've just protested somewhere else against him. Why not on the streets? And if they wanted to hate on religion, that's fine, but don't do it on the freaking church!! Regardless of whether their claims are right or not (which they probably are, religion always relates in some point to corruption) they shouldn't make their claims in a church, offending all the believers.

If this band believes in freedom of speech, then let the other people be free too, and if they want to pray, or to believe in the church whatever it says it's their choice, don't go their place and insult their "sacred place".

All I'm trying to say is, yes, the sentence is a bit too harsh, but also, these girls could've just protested somewhere else.

King Halep
Aug 26th, 2012, 06:37 AM
the church means nothing to the govt. if the patriarch used it to make anti-govt speech he will be hauled away too.

saint2
Aug 26th, 2012, 07:43 AM
the church means nothing to the govt. if the patriarch used it to make anti-govt speech he will be hauled away too.

This.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 26th, 2012, 09:36 PM
I feel for the Pussy Riot more or less the same as how I felt for that British couple that were charged and sentenced for having sex on a beach in Dubai. These two things are not in any way the same, but in both cases you have people choosing doing something that they know full well is "wrong" (as defined by somebody, whether we agree with them or not), in a place where they know the consequences may be stupid, a place where they are free to come and go as they please. And yet, in both cases, a poor choice was made. I prefer to save my pity and outrage for those with fewer choices.

NashaMasha
Aug 26th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Just a few notes.
1. Those are the girls who had no problems engaging in a group sex in a public place. Just so that you would have an idea of a level of morality we are talking about. Those are people without slightest respect to others or to anything.

2. The defamation of religious institutions have always been punished quite severely in Russia. Few years ago few hooligans who drawn swastikas on a synagogue got 6 years ( why was no one screaming for freedom of speech and expression back then around here, huh? )

3. Those who think that those people are just anti-Putin, you are confused. Not really, they are even more anti-West. An excellent insight on this is given in this article from International Herald Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/the-wrong-reasons-to-back-pussy-riot.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
I am not in full agreement with author's opinions, but I do agree with most of it. That these people are mostly and primarily for "freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. "
In a gist, it is a 100% match with the ideas of original Russian Bolshevist Communism, which - in its early stages - manifested itself exactly in total disregard to traditions, religion, morality, family, property, decency. I am not surprised that most of liberals around here are in total support of them, as those are exactly the things that modern liberalism wholeheartedly supports.

:lol: pls answer on an exact question " is 2 year in prison a right punishment for minor hooliganism?, (minor because nothing was damaged and nobody hurt)" in the country where MMA fighter killed with a one punch a man near the night club and will get 2 years suspended sentence? In the country where rapists manage to commit 3-4 crimes because they are set free from prisons after 4 years in it to commit one more act of rape , etc..... Actually muderers in Russia get 7-8 years and set free after 6 years in prison

The Crow
Aug 27th, 2012, 10:54 AM
I feel for the Pussy Riot more or less the same as how I felt for that British couple that were charged and sentenced for having sex on a beach in Dubai. These two things are not in any way the same, but in both cases you have people choosing doing something that they know full well is "wrong" (as defined by somebody, whether we agree with them or not), in a place where they know the consequences may be stupid, a place where they are free to come and go as they please. And yet, in both cases, a poor choice was made. I prefer to save my pity and outrage for those with fewer choices.

Important difference: pussy riot does it as protest against something that's wrong in their society (according to them) while the couple just did it for kicks (I guess).

And you don't have to 'save your pity'. It's not as if you can't be outraged by this just because other people are treated even more unfairly...

King Halep
Aug 27th, 2012, 11:39 AM
These two things are not in any way the same, but in both cases you have people choosing doing something that they know full well is "wrong" (as defined by somebody, whether we agree with them or not), in a place where they know the consequences may be stupid, a place where they are free to come and go as they please. And yet, in both cases, a poor choice was made. I prefer to save my pity and outrage for those with fewer choices.

They know the govt is going to make a show trial out of it. They are willing to get out and risk their own safety to show to Western media the political corruption going on. It is this kind of poor choice that is necessary for revolution to take place.

azdaja
Aug 27th, 2012, 01:21 PM
They know the govt is going to make a show trial out of it. They are willing to get out and risk their own safety to show to Western media the political corruption going on. It is this kind of poor choice that is necessary for revolution to take place.
so, if you want to start a revolution in one country you do something to show the political corruption of that country's political establishment to the media of other countries. it doesn't really make sense. the impact of the action should be within that country.

the reaction within russia can even be the opposite. given that many russians perceive western interfering in russia's affairs as a threat this even might give putin some space to pose as a strong defender of russian interests. i think this has always been a part of his image in russia. so, while this may have tarnished the image of putin abroad i don't know if it will be the first step towards the revolution in russia.

King Halep
Aug 27th, 2012, 02:07 PM
obviously not just western media. the russian media will also have to report this, but it has been a major story in the west, which indicates that it is considered seriously, even an important world leader like Madonna has heard about it. it might not start a revolution yet, but revolutions like Arab Spring are started by people who are willing to put themselves in the firing line, not by people sitting behind their computer and criticising.

The Crow
Aug 27th, 2012, 02:22 PM
so, if you want to start a revolution in one country you do something to show the political corruption of that country's political establishment to the media of other countries. it doesn't really make sense. the impact of the action should be within that country.

the reaction within russia can even be the opposite. given that many russians perceive western interfering in russia's affairs as a threat this even might give putin some space to pose as a strong defender of russian interests. i think this has always been a part of his image in russia. so, while this may have tarnished the image of putin abroad i don't know if it will be the first step towards the revolution in russia.

You could be right. I'm not sure that the Western outcry is a positive thing. Russia will only change if the/enough Russians want change. The same goes for for example women rights in the middle east.

Tennis Fool
Aug 27th, 2012, 03:42 PM
I feel for the Pussy Riot more or less the same as how I felt for that British couple that were charged and sentenced for having sex on a beach in Dubai. These two things are not in any way the same, but in both cases you have people choosing doing something that they know full well is "wrong" (as defined by somebody, whether we agree with them or not), in a place where they know the consequences may be stupid, a place where they are free to come and go as they please. And yet, in both cases, a poor choice was made. I prefer to save my pity and outrage for those with fewer choices.
But one was a political act of civil disobedience, the other was not. Pussy Riot is more in line with, say, Rosa Parks taking a seat in the front of a segregated bus, and not giving it up to a white man. She broke the law, and was arrested, but the act was a catalyst in sparking the Civil Rights Movement for African-Americans.

ys
Aug 27th, 2012, 04:36 PM
But one was a political act of civil disobedience, the other was not. Pussy Riot is more in line with, say, Rosa Parks taking a seat in the front of a segregated bus, and not giving it up to a white man.

Nothing in common. Nothing at all.
a) Rosa Parks executed her natura) l human right of being equal in rights with other citizens of the country. Nothing of the kind for these ultra-lefties
b) Rosa Parks had no idea of the outcome. While these provocateurs knew very well what is going to happen.

The Crow
Aug 27th, 2012, 04:38 PM
Comparing it to Rosa Parks is maybe a bit too much credit, no? Rosa Parks did something she thought she should be allowed to do, that she is not less than white people. That's not really the case here, where a church was picked to give it as much exposure as possible (job well done I would say).

Let's say the pussy riot thing is somewhere between the sex thing and Rosa Parks ;)

Tennis Fool
Aug 27th, 2012, 04:38 PM
YS, Rosa Parks knew she was going to be arrested.

The Crow, but it was against the law to do what she did, at the time. Still she did it in protest to the ruling authority. Same as these women.

ys
Aug 27th, 2012, 04:39 PM
:lol: pls answer on an exact question " is 2 year in prison a right punishment for minor hooliganism?

Incorrect statement in principle. Hooliganism was just one of the charges. Inciting the religious intolerance was the one that gave them the sentence.
But if you ask me? Yep, 2 years is wrong. Should have been something like "receiving 50 lashes on Red Square" for each of them. Would have served better to every thinkable purpose.

Number19
Aug 27th, 2012, 05:00 PM
Incorrect statement in principle. Hooliganism was just one of the charges. Inciting the religious intolerance was the one that gave them the sentence.
But if you ask me? Yep, 2 years is wrong. Should have been something like "receiving 50 lashes on Red Square" for each of them. Would have served better to every thinkable purpose.

Which is the bogus charge. Hooligamism, I'll give them that. But what they did was being anti-Putin not anti-religion.

Also, anyone else find religious intolerance ironic, since every religion can be charged with that. They all as organizations spew religious intolerance against other religions, let alone secular groups. If they can't take it maybe they shouldn't dish it out.

I respect every individuals right to have or not have religion as part of their life. But the organizations always seem to rally people by finding someone to hate to justify themselves.

Ferg
Aug 27th, 2012, 05:14 PM
Nothing in common. Nothing at all.
a) Rosa Parks executed her natura) l human right of being equal in rights with other citizens of the country. Nothing of the kind for these ultra-lefties
b) Rosa Parks had no idea of the outcome. While these provocateurs knew very well what is going to happen.

:lol:

ys
Aug 27th, 2012, 05:33 PM
Which is the bogus charge. .

Not really. "Intentional disruption of regular religious service" is included as a part of that and that did happen. Didn't you see a similar case in Germany last week, where the PR copycats are looking at possible three years sentence for doing a similar thing?

Talula
Aug 27th, 2012, 08:59 PM
They could have demonstrated anywhere. They chose a Church. I'm not religious but I think their choice undermined their position and was deliberately disrespectful and should not be condoned.

It amuses me that people see Christianity as a soft target. I bet they wouldn't have had the guts to do what they did in a mosque. And in many countries if they did what they did in a mosque they would be grateful to get away with 2 years.

The response of the UK Government was hypocritical. We have anti-religious hatred laws and if people had done what they did in a mosque in the UK they would not be getting this support. I see it he UK Government's response as a chance to have a dig at Russia. The media response has overblown this out of all proportion - 2 years seems legit to me for the complete lack of decency and respect they showed. If they had demonstrated in the street it would have been a different matter. They chose to offend millions of Russians, people who were at one time persecuted for their faith.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 27th, 2012, 09:10 PM
But one was a political act of civil disobedience, the other was not. Pussy Riot is more in line with, say, Rosa Parks taking a seat in the front of a segregated bus, and not giving it up to a white man. She broke the law, and was arrested, but the act was a catalyst in sparking the Civil Rights Movement for African-Americans.
As I said: "these two things are not in any way the same".

Crazy Canuck
Aug 27th, 2012, 09:12 PM
Important difference: pussy riot does it as protest against something that's wrong in their society (according to them) while the couple just did it for kicks (I guess).

And you don't have to 'save your pity'. It's not as if you can't be outraged by this just because other people are treated even more unfairly...
Of course I can be outraged by this, and whatever else I choose to be. I simply don't choose to be outraged by it. Some people do, and that's fine.

Ferg
Aug 27th, 2012, 09:49 PM
They could have demonstrated anywhere. They chose a Church. I'm not religious but I think their choice undermined their position and was deliberately disrespectful and should not be condoned.

Of course they chose a church.. do you know what they were demonstrating against? :confused:

saint2
Aug 27th, 2012, 09:56 PM
Shit, if it was all about church, then order them to work on church purpose. Like cleaning the church for 2 years, or help in preparing to mass for 2 years...
But DO NOT put them in lagr for 2 years.

stpaulifan
Aug 28th, 2012, 08:17 PM
why do people keep saying 'if they'd done it in a mosque..' etc? they didn't and that's not relevant.

am i supposed to give up fighting for gay equality in the uk just cause in some countries gay sex, let alone marriage, isn't even legal?

my 'free pussy riot' t shirt arrived today and i shall wear it with pride.

also, i happen to be a 'lefty' as u might put it. just cause some people might not agree with everything PR stand for, it doesn't mean they can't have the opinion that in this case they have been treated harshly.

MaBaker
Aug 28th, 2012, 09:09 PM
To be fair, they deserve jail time, their music is absolute shit.

stpaulifan
Aug 28th, 2012, 10:29 PM
i've never heard it and i don't care but most music is shit, especially anything in the charts or produced by talent less shows.

the jails should be full then?

King Halep
Aug 29th, 2012, 11:08 AM
why do people keep saying 'if they'd done it in a mosque..' etc? they didn't and that's not relevant.

am i supposed to give up fighting for gay equality in the uk just cause in some countries gay sex, let alone marriage, isn't even legal?

my 'free pussy riot' t shirt arrived today and i shall wear it with pride.

also, i happen to be a 'lefty' as u might put it. just cause some people might not agree with everything PR stand for, it doesn't mean they can't have the opinion that in this case they have been treated harshly.

some of the comments above are just asinine, they are defending their own undemocratic regimes as if they prefer things that way

saint2
Aug 29th, 2012, 02:21 PM
To be fair, they deserve jail time, their music is absolute shit.

Then majority of female pop singers wich TF users like (don't know why) here should go to jail...

HippityHop
Aug 29th, 2012, 05:33 PM
obviously not just western media. the russian media will also have to report this, but it has been a major story in the west, which indicates that it is considered seriously, even an important world leader like Madonna has heard about it. it might not start a revolution yet, but revolutions like Arab Spring are started by people who are willing to put themselves in the firing line, not by people sitting behind their computer and criticising.

:lol::lol:

Sammo
Sep 5th, 2012, 12:22 PM
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562718_10151137002454784_701106582_n.jpg