PDA

View Full Version : Masha's worst year


Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:47 AM
I think it's safe to say that 2012 will go down as one of her best years. :bounce:
But which year was her worst?

(based on on-court performance)

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:53 AM
IMO its 2010 for sure. In 2009 the got back to nearly top 10 form, but never delivered or inproved in 2010. If she had changed her coach earlier, she wouldnt have "wasted" a year to improve.

denny5576
Aug 17th, 2012, 11:28 AM
If she had changed her coach earlier, she wouldnt have "wasted" a year to improve.

You obviously do not know or forgot what happened in 2010.
And before talking about coaches see Maria's matches:
Maria - Serena Wimbledon 2010
Maria - Serena OG 2012

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 11:43 AM
You obviously do not know or forgot what happened in 2010.
And before talking about coaches see Maria's matches:
Maria - Serena Wimbledon 2010
Maria - Serena OG 2012

You picked her best match of the year. While at RG she showed some promise, on wich she later delivered (:)), her perfonmance at AO and USO was very disappointing. She had an injury at IW, but almost played a full year, yet she didnt make the YEC, and she finished lower in ranking than in 2009.

denny5576
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:08 PM
Before making such poll you should first define the criterion. Different criteria mean different answers. And give more choices. Why 2009, for example, is not in the list?

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:18 PM
If you think its not 2010, Im cool with that. Im just interested in your and forum's opinion. You made an argument against 2010, I made one for 2010. If you think its 2009 or any other year, tell us why you think so.

denny5576
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:27 PM
You picked her best match of the year. While at RG she showed some promise, on wich she later delivered (:)), her perfonmance at AO and USO was very disappointing. She had an injury at IW, but almost played a full year, yet she didnt make the YEC, and she finished lower in ranking than in 2009.

I said:
"before talking about coaches see Maria's matches:
Maria - Serena Wimbledon 2010
Maria - Serena OG 2012"

Did you see it?
Did you see the difference?
So we better avoid talking about coaches.

When we attempt to evaluate and compare results of a player we must include and analyze everything related to the training process as well. Otherwise our conclusions could be very wrong.
Let me help you: for the not so good results in the second half of 2010 and the beginning of 2011 there are only two persons responsible - Maria and Sasha. But we must understand and appreciate the love...

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:34 PM
Ok. Then which was her worst year in your opinion and why?

denny5576
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:42 PM
If you think its not 2010, Im cool with that. Im just interested in your and forum's opinion. You made an argument against 2010, I made one for 2010. If you think its 2009 or any other year, tell us why you think so.
I simply try to help you improve your poll. Did not express my opinion which year is the worst because it depends on the criterion.

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:46 PM
And no, I didnt see the 2010 match. I guess she was more agressive in that match. I wasnt trying to be too harsh on Joyce here, but I felt she needed a change after 2010 for whatever reason.

Gergo
Aug 17th, 2012, 12:50 PM
(based on on-court performance)


sorry i should have been more clear on that

MM_1257
Aug 17th, 2012, 01:00 PM
And no, I didnt see the 2010 match. I guess she was more agressive in that match. I wasnt trying to be too harsh on Joyce here, but I felt she needed a change after 2010 for whatever reason.

If Joyce really himself suggested her to end the coach-pupil relationship and advised her to move on and find another coach, I really really really put my hats off to him. It is a big big big action... And yes, she did need the change, she is aware of that, too.

massive
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:08 PM
2010 had some very tough losses/chokes against Henin, the servebot and Clijsters. She should've won those three matches (well, at least taken 1st set off the servebot in Wimbledon) and she knows it; those losses took a huge mental toll on Maria towards the end of the year. She unfortunately ran into Peak Wozniacki at the USO but if it weren't for her record-low confidence levels she would've easily gotten through an inspired Woz. No comments on the Asian swing and the beginning of 2011.

I still love Maria and do believe she has a couple of slams in her but her game was completely retooled. It is indeed a joy to watch on grass but she parted ways with Joyce because she just can't be as aggressive as she used to be pre-surgery; it puts too much strain on her shoulder, no matter how much it has recovered.

Nevertheless, I think she's slowly and steadily drifting more and more towards her all-out aggressive mode, particularly on the forehand. It was indeed the shot which won her RG this year, but it breaks down too much on the other surfaces (even though it looked better than ever at AO until that final :tape:)

So yeah, in a way, it's a tie between 2011 and 2009 for worst years. Sorry for including 2011, but Maria was atrocious in Australia, IW, Miami, Wimbledon, Toronto, and ESPECIALLY at the USO. She was mediocre in RG and the only highlight of that year was Rome. This year has been wonderful, and she really should've bagged both the AO and Miami, but that's a whole different discussion.

massive
Aug 17th, 2012, 02:34 PM
2012 is would've been the best year of her career if it weren't for Serena. She would've most likely won Madrid and the Olympic Gold, and she wouldn't have drawn Lisicki at Wimbledon; who knows what would've happened there.

nelsondan
Aug 17th, 2012, 03:35 PM
2012 is would've been the best year of her career if it weren't for Serena. She would've most likely won Madrid and the Olympic Gold, and she wouldn't have drawn Lisicki at Wimbledon; who knows what would've happened there.

2012 is not over yet. I would like to see a rematch with Serena in the USO. Everyone takes it for granted that Serena was impossible for anyone at the Olympics....but even Maria, in the second set, had one game she lost which could have changed momentum we do not know if Serena will have a tiny loss of intensity....but a tiny loss could be a game changer for Maria, especially one that gets her to a third set. I still rule out nothing for Maria.

massive
Aug 17th, 2012, 03:59 PM
As of today, her best year was 2006. Slaying Clijsters, Mauresmo and Henin Titles at IW, San Diego, USO and that glorious indoor streak which Henin had to end (Maria ended an even more impressive streak 2 years later, bagel included, so no biggie :oh:). Too bad she was clearly burned out by the time she got to the YEC otherwise she would've given Henin a match in those semis. She should've also made it to the AO finals in that weird semi against Henin. There is no way Maria would've lost to Mauresmo there. She'd win her 3rd slam there and be proclaimed Queen of the Hardcourts, but oh well.

Stonerpova
Aug 17th, 2012, 07:32 PM
2010 and it's not even close. Didn't reach a slam QF, her two titles were Memphis and Strasbourg ( :o ), she blew match points in a final, she lost to Date Krumm and Vesnina in back to back tourneys, fell out of the top 20. The only real positive was the sneak peak of the Claypova to come we got at RG :drool:

2007 she at least got to a slam final and played one of the great matches in WTA history against Henin at the Championships. 2008 was bad because of injuries but it was also the year in which she peaked tennis-wise.

MM_1257
Aug 17th, 2012, 08:25 PM
2010 and it's not even close. Didn't reach a slam QF, her two titles were Memphis and Strasbourg ( :o ), she blew match points in a final, she lost to Date Krumm and Vesnina in back to back tourneys, fell out of the top 20. The only real positive was the sneak peak of the Claypova to come we got at RG :drool:

2007 she at least got to a slam final and played one of the great matches in WTA history against Henin at the Championships. 2008 was bad because of injuries but it was also the year in which she peaked tennis-wise.

2007 was bad due to injuries too... 2008 was good, except for the shoulder surgery... (:sobbing:) but she won AO..

gc-spurs
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:14 PM
Memphis and Strasbourg. R1 losses. Best performance was the 4th round. The Cincy final. Bone Bruise. No YEC.

Stonerpova
Aug 17th, 2012, 10:35 PM
As of today, her best year was 2006. Slaying Clijsters, Mauresmo and Henin Titles at IW, San Diego, USO and that glorious indoor streak which Henin had to end (Maria ended an even more impressive streak 2 years later, bagel included, so no biggie :oh:). Too bad she was clearly burned out by the time she got to the YEC otherwise she would've given Henin a match in those semis. She should've also made it to the AO finals in that weird semi against Henin. There is no way Maria would've lost to Mauresmo there. She'd win her 3rd slam there and be proclaimed Queen of the Hardcourts, but oh well.

Maria had been injured for the better part of six months and she almost didn't play that Aussie Open. Semis was a good enough result, and besides, those losses to Henin gave Maria the impetus to switch things up like she did at the US Open final :hearts:

What's so great to see is that 2012 could very well be the best season of Maria's career if she has great results at the Open and/or the YEC. This is already the only season when she's reached multiple slam finals.

dsanders06
Aug 17th, 2012, 11:26 PM
It's strange looking back at her 2010 results in retrospect, because I don't know about anyone else, but at the time it really didn't feel like Maria was doing that badly....I mean she managed to go toe-to-toe with Henin on clay, Serena on grass and Clijsters on hardcourts. I remember, I was barely following tennis towards the end of that year, and I remember being really STUNNED when looked at the rankings and saw she'd dropped out of the top 20, because it felt to me like she was having a lower-top10 standard year.

I definitely think her actual level of tennis between May-August 2010 shits all over anything she produced in 2009, but the crucial difference was that 2010 was the most headcasey year of her career (although she gave it a run for her money with her constant brainfarting in IW/Miami this year, admittedly) whereas in 2009, at tournaments like RG, even though she was playing horrible tennis, she was clutch as hell.

dsanders06
Aug 17th, 2012, 11:29 PM
Maria had been injured for the better part of six months and she almost didn't play that Aussie Open. Semis was a good enough result, and besides, those losses to Henin gave Maria the impetus to switch things up like she did at the US Open final :hearts:

What's so great to see is that 2012 could very well be the best season of Maria's career if she has great results at the Open and/or the YEC. This is already the only season when she's reached multiple slam finals.

Yup, imo all she needs is like a semi at the US Open and maybe a title in either Tokyo or Beijing, and 2012 is the best of her career I think.

Stonerpova
Aug 18th, 2012, 12:20 AM
It's strange looking back at her 2010 results in retrospect, because I don't know about anyone else, but at the time it really didn't feel like Maria was doing that badly....I mean she managed to go toe-to-toe with Henin on clay, Serena on grass and Clijsters on hardcourts. I remember, I was barely following tennis towards the end of that year, and I remember being really STUNNED when looked at the rankings and saw she'd dropped out of the top 20, because it felt to me like she was having a lower-top10 standard year.

I definitely think her actual level of tennis between May-August 2010 shits all over anything she produced in 2009, but the crucial difference was that 2010 was the most headcasey year of her career (although she gave it a run for her money with her constant brainfarting in IW/Miami this year, admittedly) whereas in 2009, at tournaments like RG, even though she was playing horrible tennis, she was clutch as hell.

Nah, her drubbings of Pironkova at the US Open and Stosur at Tokyo were vintage pre-surgery Pova. Agreed with the rest of the post though.

domon17th
Aug 18th, 2012, 07:58 AM
If Joyce really himself suggested her to end the coach-pupil relationship and advised her to move on and find another coach, I really really really put my hats off to him. It is a big big big action... And yes, she did need the change, she is aware of that, too.

Yep. I think we don't give Maria's coaching team enough credit, past or present. I mean she's really lucky to have such a dedicated, professional and close-knit team with her.

It's strange looking back at her 2010 results in retrospect, because I don't know about anyone else, but at the time it really didn't feel like Maria was doing that badly....I mean she managed to go toe-to-toe with Henin on clay, Serena on grass and Clijsters on hardcourts. I remember, I was barely following tennis towards the end of that year, and I remember being really STUNNED when looked at the rankings and saw she'd dropped out of the top 20, because it felt to me like she was having a lower-top10 standard year.

I definitely think her actual level of tennis between May-August 2010 shits all over anything she produced in 2009, but the crucial difference was that 2010 was the most headcasey year of her career (although she gave it a run for her money with her constant brainfarting in IW/Miami this year, admittedly) whereas in 2009, at tournaments like RG, even though she was playing horrible tennis, she was clutch as hell.

Agree fully to this dsanders. Actually I consider 2011 pretty dire, it's really a case of weak competition that gave her the results.
2009 - clutchpova
2010 - bambipova
2011 - Poova

madmax
Aug 18th, 2012, 09:51 AM
2010 was most definitely her worst year for me...I mean how much does it have to blow when your two best matches of the year were still losses to subpar Henin and Williams? On top of that, she was choking left and right those days. Her loss to Moonballniacki later that year had left me scratching my head and questioning her on court intelligence for real. Thanks god Hoggy arrived and fixed a huge mess that her game was rapidly spiralling into. She still chokes and freezes nowadays, but at least the days of hitting herself off the court are over for good now

JoPova
Aug 18th, 2012, 10:47 AM
2010.. It's the year with the most disappointing Slam results for her. She was unlucky to draw Justine and Serena, but Wozniacki and Kirilenko could've been beaten!

SharaGaGa
Oct 7th, 2012, 12:13 PM
2010 in terms of results.

2008 in terms of the shoulder injury and its effect/s on her career/confidence.

She may be having her best year now in terms of results, but her serve. She never really got it back. She's trying to compensate by improving the other aspects of her game (including movement) but those untimely DFs. :(

Mr.Sharapova
Oct 7th, 2012, 01:17 PM
Completely agree. Even though she had a fantastic clay season she got too many beatdowns this year form her main rivals.

Cosmic Voices
Oct 7th, 2012, 01:41 PM
i still find it hilarious that masha is only GOAT on clay :haha: who would've thought
but the good thing is shes consistently made finals this year, i know its hard guys with these losses but we can only accept that vika is either a) a better player b) has the mental edge vs masha. i hope 2013 will reap more rewards, but if i see her losing in the RR stage of the YEC i'll be really disappointed

Joelina
Oct 7th, 2012, 01:57 PM
she was so mediocre in 2010

Shivank17
Oct 7th, 2012, 02:08 PM
2010 by far. No Slam QFs, titles at MMs and a first round slam exit.

pov
Oct 7th, 2012, 02:11 PM
Completely agree. Even though she had a fantastic clay season she got too many beatdowns this year form her main rivals.
Yeah but all (I think) of those beatdowns were in finals.

Mr.Sharapova
Oct 7th, 2012, 02:33 PM
Yeah but all (I think) of those beatdowns were in finals.

That's what hurts more :shrug: I would rather have her get beaten in the semifinal or something rather than in the final :oh:.

jameshazza
Oct 7th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Honestly when you look at her results and how poorly she's played to get them in a lot of tournaments it gives great reason to be excited. It might take another 2 years before Maria is a pre-surgery levels but it's not as if she's not putting in the work. It was always going to be a long road and I think this season and last season were great transition years to stabalise her game and get some controlled aggression back. I just hope next year the improvements are as big as they were this past two years.

Cosmic Voices
Oct 7th, 2012, 04:51 PM
Honestly when you look at her results and how poorly she's played to get them in a lot of tournaments it gives great reason to be excited. It might take another 2 years before Maria is a pre-surgery levels but it's not as if she's not putting in the work. It was always going to be a long road and I think this season and last season were great transition years to stabalise her game and get some controlled aggression back. I just hope next year the improvements are as big as they were this past two years.

perfect term to describe her progression :yeah:

Stonerpova
Oct 8th, 2012, 01:13 AM
Totally agree with Ogi. Despite this being one of her best seasons she still has so much room for improvement, especially on non-clay surfaces.

Fighterpova
Oct 8th, 2012, 01:38 PM
2010 for sure. Horrible results at Slams, lots of early exits at important events, losing 3 straight finals, only winning 2 MMs.

However, no matter how inconsistent she was in 2010, she was able to challenge the best and didn't have a single beatdown all season :lol:

To be honest, I'd rather have her losing close matches than getting beatdowns in every non clay final she plays :tape:

SilverSlam
Oct 8th, 2012, 02:57 PM
2008 for sure. Anytime when she's playing and she's healthy is a good year.

When she has to have surgery because she can no longer play without pain, is a bad year, results don't matter. It's all about her being okay and doing what she loves pain free.

denny5576
Oct 8th, 2012, 03:10 PM
if we follow your logic Maria never had even one good year!

nelsondan
Oct 8th, 2012, 05:24 PM
I am tempted to have a poll....in what year did maria's body look the best...(cannot think of a worst year )...maybe someone else would like to run with that idea....my choice would be 2012. And...

"I don't carry it (sugarpova) with me because then it just becomes too dangerous. I've got vacation in a month or so, and I need to‑‑ you know, I'm going to be wearing bikinis, so I can't be eating candy before. I need to be bikini‑ready."

I have a feeling she will be ready.

Stonerpova
Oct 9th, 2012, 05:17 AM
2008 for sure. Anytime when she's playing and she's healthy is a good year.

When she has to have surgery because she can no longer play without pain, is a bad year, results don't matter. It's all about her being okay and doing what she loves pain free.

2008 was the best it ever was for her though, tennis-wise. It's obviously heartbreaking when you think about the player she was maturing into, but we got a glimpse of Peak Pova during that time. I mean I totally see where you're coming from, but I'll take a GOAT slam win and an injury over back to back losses to KDK and Vesnina any day :lol:

PimpMePova
Oct 9th, 2012, 10:23 AM
2008 was the best it ever was for her though, tennis-wise. It's obviously heartbreaking when you think about the player she was maturing into, but we got a glimpse of Peak Pova during that time. I mean I totally see where you're coming from, but I'll take a GOAT slam win and an injury over back to back losses to KDK and Vesnina any day :lol:

It really makes me wonder what could have happened and what she might have achieved had that shoulder problem not occured...it makes me sad when I begin to think about it as it probably would have been so much more than this:sad:

Joelina
Oct 10th, 2012, 09:54 AM
It really makes me wonder what could have happened and what she might have achieved had that shoulder problem not occured...it makes me sad when I begin to think about it as it probably would have been so much more than this:sad:

we will never find out now, but i don´t think she would have won FO even without that shoulder problems and surgery, maybe this was just meant to be and her career was blessed with career slam which i would take anyday rather than having 5 or 6 slams except FO :yeah:

Mexicola
Oct 10th, 2012, 05:53 PM
It really makes me wonder what could have happened and what she might have achieved had that shoulder problem not occured...it makes me sad when I begin to think about it as it probably would have been so much more than this:sad:

I understand wondering what could have been with Maria, concerning the shoulder injury. But most of the top players can play the "What if" question, so it's not like Maria is the only victim of health setbacks or other circumstances that hurt her career. What if Serena had never stepped on glass, or had that knee surgery, or had committed herself to the game 100% over the years? What if Clijsters didn't want to start a family in the first place? What if Henin never retired early? What if Dementieva solved her serving issues? What if Hingis didn't develop foot problems? What if Capriati never got into drugs? What if Seles hadn't gotten stabbed?

But it's only natural to wonder what Maria could have achiveved without the shoulder problems. I've done myself. For what it's worth, I think she would have won 3 or 4 more majors.