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View Full Version : Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi is Egypt's New President


M.S.F
Jun 24th, 2012, 03:50 PM
The Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi is Egypt's new president, the country's electoral commission announced on Sunday.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTA2Fcejgx-wqzv9pe30jTm2ysdMXldtAPY3seyndY6UlAUviTU&t=1

Morsi's election is a victory for Islamist groups as well as those who saw his candidacy as a way to clear out the final remnants of ousted leader Hosni Mubarak's regime. Ahead of the announcement, rumors flew of fraud and secret bargains made to favor Hosni Mubarak's last prime minister, Ahmed Shafiq.

The announcement of the election results was supposed to be the resolution of the tumultuous transition to democracy Egypt began when a popular uprising swept Hosni Mubarak from power more than a year ago.

Instead, backroom deals and last-minute moves by the military have cast suspicion over the country's first free presidential vote and tensions have spiked across the country. Results from last weekend's runoff elections were originally to be announced on Thursday, but were postponed until today.

Meanwhile, crowds have swelled in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the birthplace of Egypt's pro-democracy movement. Supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, ultraconservative Islamists and revolutionary youth groups have been mixing in the midday heat as they waited for the announcement.

CNN showed Egyptians being frisked as they entered the square, and the AP reports police have been ordered to "confront any attempt to break the law with decisive force."

Regardless of the election's outcome, however, it is Egypt's military that remains in power. In the 16 months since Mubarak was ousted, it has assumed control of all key branches of state. Just before elections last weekend, the ruling generals dissolved Egypt's popularly elected parliament, which was dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. Shortly after polls closed, they amended Egypt's constitution to strip power from the incoming president. Powers of arrest and detention have also been broadened.

Extra security forces have been deployed around the country since Saturday, the AP reports. Armored vehicles, troops and riot police are stationed at Cairo's airport, around Parliament and throughout the streets of the city. Sunday is a work day in Egypt, but employees were sent home early over concerns of new violence – many stopping to stock up on food and jewelry along the way.

http://http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/06/24/155661979/muslim-brotherhoods-mohammed-morsi-to-be-egypts-new-president

*JR*
Jun 24th, 2012, 04:34 PM
The man is a USC educated engineer.

This is not Mahmoud Ahmandinejad of Iran.

Edit: the BBC says Morsi is a 9/11 truther. Martian Jeza (http://www.tennisforum.com/member.php?u=22418) should be pleased. :scared:

================================================== ============================

Number19
Jun 24th, 2012, 05:37 PM
^
So, he's not a puppet for who actually is in charge.

M.S.F
Jun 24th, 2012, 05:59 PM
He won by 51.73% and choosing between the last two was hard because many Egyptians who supported the revolution were not sure if the Muslim Brotherhood are ready to take such an important place.
On the other hand, Ahmed Shafik represented the previous regime and used the tactic of scaring the people from the Muslim Brotherhood and it worked with some Copts and liberals.
Anyway, the rise of Islamic regimes in countries like Egypt is due to the failure of secular governments.
It will be interesting to see how the military react to this.

Chip.
Jun 24th, 2012, 06:48 PM
I hope Egypt can get back on its feet now after such a turbulent year. Good luck to them.

*Nefertiti*
Jun 25th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Egypt died yesterday. It was the worst day in my whole life. Btw he is not the pres, the fucking mbs secret men are the real pres. Cairo is sad, people are sad in the streets, many ppl feel guilty cause they didnt go to elections and thought Shafik would win any way. I voted for Shafik and begged people to go, some went and others didnt bother. Now they fucking cry that they didnt go.
The worst thing since I know mbs since I were young is that they will never lose any elections again. They have their ways!
The only good thing in this nightmare is that me and many others knew their real feelings towards islam! We were born muslims and are forced to be written muslims in our official papers without out knowlege, islam is the real problem in egypt, they say 90% of Egyptians are muslims but the truth is half of them cant stand it!! We are forced to be something we dont want to be.
The worst thing is that the army that we trust a lot betrayed us and told us saturday that Shafik won and invited us to a celebration in nasr city in cairo, i went and was happy, i had my doubts but i never thought they would decieve us that way, later we knew that they wanted us for negotiations with mbs about the army and wanted big masses to scare them. That really shocked my cause I always trust the army, I never thought they would do the stupid ways of mbs.

I just woke up and I asked myself, why i am not dead? There's nothing I want now more than being dead.
The real problem isn't only the ways that mbs do to win which are ugly , but also the south, the difference between the north and the south is very big, its like 2 different countries, we live here in cairo with christians very normally. There they have problems. They fucking dont stop coming to cairo and breeding like rats, if they like their retarded life, why cant they just keep living in their stupid south and leave us alone.
Last year I was afraid about my state as a female, but now I dont care, I am sad about my country, i can defend myself, but my country is gone forever. We fought those islamists groups for decades, they killed sadat once, now they are taking the country not only people. I had a terrible experience in an islamic school organized by mbs. I was beaten for not remembring long quran phrases, and was punished for not bringing the higab scarf when i was 7 yrs old by standing for hours. Now they say they dont care about higab "now" the funny thing is that there are stupid people who had never have any experience with islamists that think mbs dont care about women! Lol I was in their school, they only care about 4 things, making an islamic empire, hating women, hating Christians and the Israel conflict.
What make life unbearable, is that now everything is going to be so fake, yesterday they noticed that streets are sad, after 2 hours, mbs youth were ordered to celebrate in the streets, it was so fake, especially that they consider music "haram" those youth that obey whatever their beliefs are so scary! I hate all this fake life, even their tvs and papers are faking this honest "happy" scenes! Ugh, again those lies of the last regieme, and now worse since it comes with islamists stupid retarded ideas.
The nightmare doesnt end there. There are other islamists groups that are also violent, they will tone it down for a while, but sooner or later they will show their real face.
The sad thing is that we, seculars, dont have weapons to defend ourselves while islamists have lots of weapons, i want to have a gun, but its very difficult in egypt to buy one.
Sooner or later, and i think later the islamists will face the army, most of the army families are seculars, i am sure mbs are thinking now of a way to control the army. They also want to control education, arts, streets, its very hard to control egyptians normal life so i think they will later need force, thats why i need a gun. I would rather die defending myself and my beliefs than die without fighting to be peaceful. There's no peace with islamists, they killed us for decades and if they think that they will control us cause we are peaceful they are very wrong. I dont kill any creature, but i will shout whoever tells me any thing about my cloths, or about any thing.
Thats sure if i dont die in next days, this is my worst nightmare comes true. This is the worst thing that happened to me and i cant even stop crying. I am not home, i am in a church, i dont know why i am here, i just left home and told the taxi to bring me here, i slept here and now i dont know what to do, i dont want to remain muslim, but i also have doubts about christianity. I just feel alone here, which is what i need now.

WowWow
Jun 25th, 2012, 10:38 AM
The name of the movement says it all. And I'm not talking about the 1st word.

flyingmachine
Jun 25th, 2012, 10:41 AM
I hope Egypt can get back on its feet now after such a turbulent year. Good luck to them.
We will see. Egypt has a lot of problems so we have to see what they doing next.

Root
Jun 25th, 2012, 01:58 PM
Egypt died yesterday. It was the worst day in my whole life. Btw he is not the pres, the fucking mbs secret men are the real pres. Cairo is sad, people are sad in the streets, many ppl feel guilty cause they didnt go to elections and thought Shafik would win any way. I voted for Shafik and begged people to go, some went and others didnt bother. Now they fucking cry that they didnt go.
The worst thing since I know mbs since I were young is that they will never lose any elections again. They have their ways!
The only good thing in this nightmare is that me and many others knew their real feelings towards islam! We were born muslims and are forced to be written muslims in our official papers without out knowlege, islam is the real problem in egypt, they say 90% of Egyptians are muslims but the truth is half of them cant stand it!! We are forced to be something we dont want to be.
The worst thing is that the army that we trust a lot betrayed us and told us saturday that Shafik won and invited us to a celebration in nasr city in cairo, i went and was happy, i had my doubts but i never thought they would decieve us that way, later we knew that they wanted us for negotiations with mbs about the army and wanted big masses to scare them. That really shocked my cause I always trust the army, I never thought they would do the stupid ways of mbs.

I just woke up and I asked myself, why i am not dead? There's nothing I want now more than being dead.
The real problem isn't only the ways that mbs do to win which are ugly , but also the south, the difference between the north and the south is very big, its like 2 different countries, we live here in cairo with christians very normally. There they have problems. They fucking dont stop coming to cairo and breeding like rats, if they like their retarded life, why cant they just keep living in their stupid south and leave us alone.
Last year I was afraid about my state as a female, but now I dont care, I am sad about my country, i can defend myself, but my country is gone forever. We fought those islamists groups for decades, they killed sadat once, now they are taking the country not only people. I had a terrible experience in an islamic school organized by mbs. I was beaten for not remembring long quran phrases, and was punished for not bringing the higab scarf when i was 7 yrs old by standing for hours. Now they say they dont care about higab "now" the funny thing is that there are stupid people who had never have any experience with islamists that think mbs dont care about women! Lol I was in their school, they only care about 4 things, making an islamic empire, hating women, hating Christians and the Israel conflict.
What make life unbearable, is that now everything is going to be so fake, yesterday they noticed that streets are sad, after 2 hours, mbs youth were ordered to celebrate in the streets, it was so fake, especially that they consider music "haram" those youth that obey whatever their beliefs are so scary! I hate all this fake life, even their tvs and papers are faking this honest "happy" scenes! Ugh, again those lies of the last regieme, and now worse since it comes with islamists stupid retarded ideas.
The nightmare doesnt end there. There are other islamists groups that are also violent, they will tone it down for a while, but sooner or later they will show their real face.
The sad thing is that we, seculars, dont have weapons to defend ourselves while islamists have lots of weapons, i want to have a gun, but its very difficult in egypt to buy one.
Sooner or later, and i think later the islamists will face the army, most of the army families are seculars, i am sure mbs are thinking now of a way to control the army. They also want to control education, arts, streets, its very hard to control egyptians normal life so i think they will later need force, thats why i need a gun. I would rather die defending myself and my beliefs than die without fighting to be peaceful. There's no peace with islamists, they killed us for decades and if they think that they will control us cause we are peaceful they are very wrong. I dont kill any creature, but i will shout whoever tells me any thing about my cloths, or about any thing.
Thats sure if i dont die in next days, this is my worst nightmare comes true. This is the worst thing that happened to me and i cant even stop crying. I am not home, i am in a church, i dont know why i am here, i just left home and told the taxi to bring me here, i slept here and now i dont know what to do, i dont want to remain muslim, but i also have doubts about christianity. I just feel alone here, which is what i need now.

Anyone is better than Shafik.

The worst thing is that the army that we trust a lot betrayed us and told us saturday that Shafik won and invited us to a celebration in nasr city in cairo, i went and was happy, i had my doubts but i never thought they would decieve us that way, later we knew that they wanted us for negotiations with mbs about the army and wanted big masses to scare them. That really shocked my cause I always trust the army, I never thought they would do the stupid ways of mbs.

:facepalm:

The real problem isn't only the ways that mbs do to win which are ugly , but also the south, the difference between the north and the south is very big, its like 2 different countries, we live here in cairo with christians very normally. There they have problems. They fucking dont stop coming to cairo and breeding like rats, if they like their retarded life, why cant they just keep living in their stupid south and leave us alone.

:facepalm:

Have you a for a second considered that it's the same country? South, north, east or west-- it's still the same fucking country. It's like saying "oh you Northern English people better not step foot into the City, blah blah blah" It's still the same country--their country-- and they have every right to go wherever they wish to. Also, who the fuck are you to tell anyone whether they should have a child or not?

"we seculars" I am sure as hell you don't represent the seculars of Egypt.

For someone who believes Islamists are nothing but full of hate, you sure would be at home with them by the look of your post.

Also, no one in their right mind would expect Egypt to transform into prosperity overnight. It's going to take DECADES. Better get used to it instead of just whining and wishing to be dead.

Anyway, good for Egypt and Egyptians electing their first president since the tool was ousted. And you wanted Shafiq to win? What a joke.


Fucking christ.

*Nefertiti*
Jun 25th, 2012, 06:22 PM
Anyone is better than Shafik.



:facepalm:



:facepalm:

Have you a for a second considered that it's the same country? South, north, east or west-- it's still the same fucking country. It's like saying "oh you Northern English people better not step foot into the City, blah blah blah" It's still the same country--their country-- and they have every right to go wherever they wish to. Also, who the fuck are you to tell anyone whether they should have a child or not?

"we seculars" I am sure as hell you don't represent the seculars of Egypt.

For someone who believes Islamists are nothing but full of hate, you sure would be at home with them by the look of your post.

Also, no one in their right mind would expect Egypt to transform into prosperity overnight. It's going to take DECADES. Better get used to it instead of just whining and wishing to be dead.

Anyway, good for Egypt and Egyptians electing their first president since the tool was ousted. And you wanted Shafiq to win? What a joke.


Fucking christ.


its easy to say that when you dont live in egypt and live in a scular country :rolleyes:
come here and live the hell with us, as if it wasnt enough that egyptians abroad who live in secular countries voted for the stupid morsi to be "with revolution" while we are suffering here from islamists
i represent myself, yes, who else would i represent? i just never fake my true feelings as most egyptians do all the time whatever their background is :)
i didnt vote for shafik in the first round, i voted for him in the second round because he is better than islamists whom i know since childhood as my own father is one of them and i went to their homes, went to an islamic school ruled by muslim brotherhoods and i know what they exactly want
i am not whining, i am not like others who will begin this journey with islamists, i have been living it since i was 7 yrs and its a terrible humiliating journey that target your identity and your humanity especially if you are a female, i lost my childhood and me teen years fighting those ideas in the school and with my dad who is one of them, i was banned from doing every thing i wanted to do in my life, i wanted to be a journalist but my dad decided to let me study something else because as a female i shouldnt be allowed to work in the media, i was kept in my room and even the radio was taken from me cause i refused to wear higab, i spent a whole year hiding that i had my first period cause my dad believes every female should wear higab after her first period, i nearly died after a suicide experience when i was only 13, the only thing that was good in my life was walking in the street knowing that they dont control it and breathing easily without fear of them but even that is gone now. i lived a hell life and once i left my dad, the "revolution" happened and i tried to tell people to slow it cause islamists will soon concur but most of them never dealt with islamists before except superficially. some of them actually treated me as a traitor of the fucking revolution, and they got the nerve to call me now and say i was right.

there's no revolution in egypt, i live here and i am not the kind of person who lies, what happened in egypt is changing the past regime with a very similar regime but with one change, terrorist and islamists ideas, there will be no change in corruption or economy, there will be only changes about the life style of half of egyptians that islamists dont like, thats what most islamists want and target. muslim brotherhoods have another main ideas about making an islamic empire and weird obsession about israel so they want to make the changes slowly cause their main target is to make a strong army first to fight and are thinking of ways to control the army, but they wont be able to control islamists who support them cause they want fast to prevent movies and control women, etc

As for the south, i am not an apologist, if they want a certain life style and hate another one that they vote strongly against it, they should remain in their cities, dont defend them, i worked in areas in cairo that have a majority of southerns, they beat women, they allow mutilation of female genital systems, they dont have enough money but they breed 5, 6 or even 7 children, they dont care if their children go to school or not, they hate christians , just like i dont defend my own dad cause he believes in islamists ideas, i wont defend other wrong ideas because i should respect different people whatever they do!!

the future of egypt is bad, it will take years for people to know what happened, there will be no other election that islamists lose, they consider democracy haram, so they dont care about doing "any thing" to win
but its not democracy now, its a war, and i will join it, the good thing is that i know their ways, i will just copy and paste what they did for decades. i will not let them turn egypt to an islamic country whatever the way i use, they reached this point cause they are terrorists
okay! :lick:

miffedmax
Jun 25th, 2012, 08:45 PM
There are plenty of allegations in the more liberal elements of Western press that the MB has been more than willing to cut deals with the military (witness their utter fold on the parliament thing) and that there is a lot to be worked out as to whom has actually defanged whom vis-a-vis the military and the MB.

From the breakdown of the election numbers, it looks--from an outside perspective--like the MB's superior organizing skills and the army's interference were the keys to the MB's success. However, it also looks like the MB's coalition of voters is very fragile and leaves them poorly positioned to take on the army.

So, regardless of the results, will the military really loosen its grip on power?

Will the other parties be able to take advantage of this time to bring their own organizations up to par with the MB?

Will the MB attempt to asset itself, or will it sell out completely and act as a democratic front for a military dictatorship to retain at least some semblence of power as a fractured and potentially minority party in the future?

Can the military keep a lid on the people of Egypt, who seem to be much less quiesant and far more involved in their future than any time since the 1950s?

These are not all my opinions, but just some of the things I'm coming across in the press. It's always interesting to have perspectives from people who are both close to and somewhat away from developments.

Halardfan
Jun 25th, 2012, 11:58 PM
its easy to say that when you dont live in egypt and live in a scular country :rolleyes:
come here and live the hell with us, as if it wasnt enough that egyptians abroad who live in secular countries voted for the stupid morsi to be "with revolution" while we are suffering here from islamists
i represent myself, yes, who else would i represent? i just never fake my true feelings as most egyptians do all the time whatever their background is :)
i didnt vote for shafik in the first round, i voted for him in the second round because he is better than islamists whom i know since childhood as my own father is one of them and i went to their homes, went to an islamic school ruled by muslim brotherhoods and i know what they exactly want
i am not whining, i am not like others who will begin this journey with islamists, i have been living it since i was 7 yrs and its a terrible humiliating journey that target your identity and your humanity especially if you are a female, i lost my childhood and me teen years fighting those ideas in the school and with my dad who is one of them, i was banned from doing every thing i wanted to do in my life, i wanted to be a journalist but my dad decided to let me study something else because as a female i shouldnt be allowed to work in the media, i was kept in my room and even the radio was taken from me cause i refused to wear higab, i spent a whole year hiding that i had my first period cause my dad believes every female should wear higab after her first period, i nearly died after a suicide experience when i was only 13, the only thing that was good in my life was walking in the street knowing that they dont control it and breathing easily without fear of them but even that is gone now. i lived a hell life and once i left my dad, the "revolution" happened and i tried to tell people to slow it cause islamists will soon concur but most of them never dealt with islamists before except superficially. some of them actually treated me as a traitor of the fucking revolution, and they got the nerve to call me now and say i was right.

there's no revolution in egypt, i live here and i am not the kind of person who lies, what happened in egypt is changing the past regime with a very similar regime but with one change, terrorist and islamists ideas, there will be no change in corruption or economy, there will be only changes about the life style of half of egyptians that islamists dont like, thats what most islamists want and target. muslim brotherhoods have another main ideas about making an islamic empire and weird obsession about israel so they want to make the changes slowly cause their main target is to make a strong army first to fight and are thinking of ways to control the army, but they wont be able to control islamists who support them cause they want fast to prevent movies and control women, etc

As for the south, i am not an apologist, if they want a certain life style and hate another one that they vote strongly against it, they should remain in their cities, dont defend them, i worked in areas in cairo that have a majority of southerns, they beat women, they allow mutilation of female genital systems, they dont have enough money but they breed 5, 6 or even 7 children, they dont care if their children go to school or not, they hate christians , just like i dont defend my own dad cause he believes in islamists ideas, i wont defend other wrong ideas because i should respect different people whatever they do!!

the future of egypt is bad, it will take years for people to know what happened, there will be no other election that islamists lose, they consider democracy haram, so they dont care about doing "any thing" to win
but its not democracy now, its a war, and i will join it, the good thing is that i know their ways, i will just copy and paste what they did for decades. i will not let them turn egypt to an islamic country whatever the way i use, they reached this point cause they are terrorists
okay! :lick:

Vivid and important testimony. I don't agree with some things you said, but I think you posts on this subject should be read because they offer a perspective that we dont always hear from.

*Nefertiti*
Jun 26th, 2012, 12:40 AM
There are plenty of allegations in the more liberal elements of Western press that the MB has been more than willing to cut deals with the military (witness their utter fold on the parliament thing) and that there is a lot to be worked out as to whom has actually defanged whom vis-a-vis the military and the MB.

From the breakdown of the election numbers, it looks--from an outside perspective--like the MB's superior organizing skills and the army's interference were the keys to the MB's success. However, it also looks like the MB's coalition of voters is very fragile and leaves them poorly positioned to take on the army.

So, regardless of the results, will the military really loosen its grip on power?

Will the other parties be able to take advantage of this time to bring their own organizations up to par with the MB?

Will the MB attempt to asset itself, or will it sell out completely and act as a democratic front for a military dictatorship to retain at least some semblence of power as a fractured and potentially minority party in the future?

Can the military keep a lid on the people of Egypt, who seem to be much less quiesant and far more involved in their future than any time since the 1950s?

These are not all my opinions, but just some of the things I'm coming across in the press. It's always interesting to have perspectives from people who are both close to and somewhat away from developments.

democracy is haram according to them, its not about democracy, its about making the islamic empire.
i dont care about the army, islamists are much much much much worse than them, islamists just want the army to be an islamist army and they will control the army in 10 years, if they continue on their plan
i will not wait for this day, from tomorrow i will take steps with others to defend my country as the army cant do this any more

Root
Jun 26th, 2012, 04:19 PM
its easy to say that when you dont live in egypt and live in a scular country :rolleyes:
come here and live the hell with us, as if it wasnt enough that egyptians abroad who live in secular countries voted for the stupid morsi to be "with revolution" while we are suffering here from islamists
i represent myself, yes, who else would i represent? i just never fake my true feelings as most egyptians do all the time whatever their background is :)
i didnt vote for shafik in the first round, i voted for him in the second round because he is better than islamists whom i know since childhood as my own father is one of them and i went to their homes, went to an islamic school ruled by muslim brotherhoods and i know what they exactly want
i am not whining, i am not like others who will begin this journey with islamists, i have been living it since i was 7 yrs and its a terrible humiliating journey that target your identity and your humanity especially if you are a female, i lost my childhood and me teen years fighting those ideas in the school and with my dad who is one of them, i was banned from doing every thing i wanted to do in my life, i wanted to be a journalist but my dad decided to let me study something else because as a female i shouldnt be allowed to work in the media, i was kept in my room and even the radio was taken from me cause i refused to wear higab, i spent a whole year hiding that i had my first period cause my dad believes every female should wear higab after her first period, i nearly died after a suicide experience when i was only 13, the only thing that was good in my life was walking in the street knowing that they dont control it and breathing easily without fear of them but even that is gone now. i lived a hell life and once i left my dad, the "revolution" happened and i tried to tell people to slow it cause islamists will soon concur but most of them never dealt with islamists before except superficially. some of them actually treated me as a traitor of the fucking revolution, and they got the nerve to call me now and say i was right.

there's no revolution in egypt, i live here and i am not the kind of person who lies, what happened in egypt is changing the past regime with a very similar regime but with one change, terrorist and islamists ideas, there will be no change in corruption or economy, there will be only changes about the life style of half of egyptians that islamists dont like, thats what most islamists want and target. muslim brotherhoods have another main ideas about making an islamic empire and weird obsession about israel so they want to make the changes slowly cause their main target is to make a strong army first to fight and are thinking of ways to control the army, but they wont be able to control islamists who support them cause they want fast to prevent movies and control women, etc

As for the south, i am not an apologist, if they want a certain life style and hate another one that they vote strongly against it, they should remain in their cities, dont defend them, i worked in areas in cairo that have a majority of southerns, they beat women, they allow mutilation of female genital systems, they dont have enough money but they breed 5, 6 or even 7 children, they dont care if their children go to school or not, they hate christians , just like i dont defend my own dad cause he believes in islamists ideas, i wont defend other wrong ideas because i should respect different people whatever they do!!

the future of egypt is bad, it will take years for people to know what happened, there will be no other election that islamists lose, they consider democracy haram, so they dont care about doing "any thing" to win
but its not democracy now, its a war, and i will join it, the good thing is that i know their ways, i will just copy and paste what they did for decades. i will not let them turn egypt to an islamic country whatever the way i use, they reached this point cause they are terrorists
okay! :lick:

If you despise your country, or rather people of your country so much, why do you not leave? No one is forcing you to stay, is there?

I personally think it's a step forward for Egypt. To be able to elect a president and having a choice of your own. Don't you find that a good thing? Regardless of the result which you did not like (and I see where you are coming from) but that's 'democracy' for you. Welcome. Find better candidates for the next election. I thought the second round followed the lesser of two evils principle.

MB are very organised and it showed the last couple of months. The problem was the youths who were revolting in Tahrir Square could not elect a leader and instead opted for "it's everyone's revolution" which is great but not having a leader--someone to represent and speak on their behalf, led them to the position they are in. Choosing between an oligarchy or theocracy. Or am I wrong on this one too?

I believe it's your right and everyone else in Egypt to DEMAND and uphold the democracy you fought for. There is still a huge struggle ahead of Egypt: SCAF, corruption, economy and much more. Things will not get better so soon. It will take a very long time but I am personally a bit optimistic about it and perhaps my opinion is influenced by the fact I do not live in a country like Egypt. But I say give him a try. It would be wonderful if he indeed represents all of Egyptians as he claimed in his speech. You don't know how things are going to unfold and neither do I. None of us hold a crystal ball. But pessimism won't get anyone anywhere.

P.S. Thanks for the rep whatever the hell it meant.

wta_zuperfann
Jun 26th, 2012, 05:34 PM
Right wing George Bush said he believed in Middle Eastern democratization and even started two wars in order to achieve that. Therefore, he must be very pleased that this has happened.

How about the other far right Republicans on this forum - what's your take? Are you equally pleased?

Kworb
Jun 26th, 2012, 06:33 PM
I really feel sorry for you *Nefertiti*, from the moment this "Arab spring" started and the old government was overthrown I knew Egypt's future looked very very bleak. A country with an Islamist government is a horrible country to live in, there is no example in the world that proves otherwise. I hope you stay strong and that better times are ahead.

Darop.
Jun 27th, 2012, 01:41 AM
Which government system does Egypt have now? Parliamentary, presidential, semi-presidential or....?

hobahobaspirit
Jun 27th, 2012, 02:11 AM
I really feel sorry for you *Nefertiti*, from the moment this "Arab spring" started and the old government was overthrown I knew Egypt's future looked very very bleak. A country with an Islamist government is a horrible country to live in, there is no example in the world that proves otherwise. I hope you stay strong and that better times are ahead.

I'm sorry but I had to stop you here. Turkey's AKP is an islamist party and the country's doing better than 95% of the planet ... but yeah Turkey's and Egypt's situation are not comparable.

*Nefertiti*
Jun 27th, 2012, 02:55 AM
Which government system does Egypt have now? Parliamentary, presidential, semi-presidential or....?

We dont have a constitution yet!
After the "revolution" the old constitution was dumped, and instead of focusing on writing a good new constitution, the stupid "tahrir youth" went to secret police buildings to get secret papers about the past regime, they were as usual being manipulated by islamists to focus on something else.
The islamists want to control writing the constitution just like every other thing in the country.

Whatever, it's not a political game now. It's a civil war that no one will be able to stop. Sooner or later we will be fighting islamists, the army was the barrier that used to stop this war in the past cause they allowed a semi-secular country where our lives were saved from the controlling islamists. Now, the army cant do this any more, and we have to fight islamists ourselves. This war has already begun since late 70s, islamists killed many including the president Sadat in 81 who is actually to be blamed for allowing political power of islamists, but when he woke up and tried to counter correct the situation they killed him. The army took control of the situation after 81 till 2011 with many terrorist attacks that couldn't change the strong power of the regime.
In 2011 islamists knew that doing an islamic revolution wont be welcomed in Cairo which is the most important city in Egypt, so they manipulated secular youths of middle class Cairo cities by focusing on corruption, and influence of of the president sons, to let those youths go to streets and tahrir square to be a "media shield and propaganda" for them.

Staying peaceful now is stupid, cause sooner or later they will use power and we need to have weapons just as they have to defend our country and ourselves from their retarded ideas and their controlling behavior, the army cant do this any more.



hobahobaspirit, turkey has a secular constitution that AKP wont dare to touch, it's a totally different situation than egypt. Ataturk saved Turkey from a very long time with deep changes that Islamists cant delete although they want! Plus most people who vote for AKP are normal conservative moderate-religious people who have emotional connections with the bright side of islam, while in Egypt most people who vote for islamists want women to stop wearing pants!
Nasser whom islamists tried to kill in 54 saved us here in Egypt from Islamists during 50s and 60s but his focus on other Arabs got us in many problems, plus unfortunately many wars were held against him, the 56 war for example was an unjustified war. The stupid Sadat in 70s thought that he could use islamists to lower the influence of communists but as usual he didn't know what he was dealing with. Unfortanely that's the case with many people that open the door for islamists, just like when US used islamists to fight USSR in Afghanistan.

The problem with most people, is that at certain point they expect islamists to be something else, islamists want to have a very conservative islamic empire that targets infedls who are normal muslims and every other non-muslim. If you think any thing else you are stupid. There are many islamists, but they dont have different ideologies, they only have different strategies and difference in the arrangement of priorities.

King Halep
Jun 27th, 2012, 03:36 AM
Right wing George Bush said he believed in Middle Eastern democratization and even started two wars in order to achieve that. Therefore, he must be very pleased that this has happened.

How about the other far right Republicans on this forum - what's your take? Are you equally pleased?

I was going to say exactly the same thing. Whats happened to the Grand Neocon plan to bring "freedom" to the Middle East? Bush said it would take twenty years for the world to appreciate his great vision. Looks like its only taken a few years and the previously secular states are all turning islamic.

*Nefertiti* your posts are some of the most interesting on this forum. Thanks for the insights, its better than listening to the BBC world news. I dont know why all those ppl didnt vote because there was always a good chance the wrong side would win the election. Lets hope there will be more elections in future.

King Halep
Jun 27th, 2012, 03:41 AM
Fucking christ.


Im quite there would be some complaints of religious abuse if someone said the same thing about the moslem religion

fifty-fifty
Jun 28th, 2012, 02:24 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/presidential-loser-leaves-egypt-amid-investigation-135441340.html

Presidential loser leaves Egypt amid investigation

CAIRO (AP) — Ahmed Shafiq, Hosni Mubarak's last prime minister and loser of the presidential runoff, left Egypt Tuesday with most of his family for the United Arab Emirates hours after the prosecutor general opened an investigation into allegations he wasted public funds during his 8-year term as a civil aviation minister in the ousted regime.

AliceMariaRenka
Jun 28th, 2012, 08:54 AM
I really feel sorry for you *Nefertiti*, from the moment this "Arab spring" started and the old government was overthrown I knew Egypt's future looked very very bleak. A country with an Islamist government is a horrible country to live in, there is no example in the world that proves otherwise. I hope you stay strong and that better times are ahead.

Someone has the guts to say what many are scared to.

This so called Arab Spring could haunt everyone. How long before people are wishing it hadn't happened?

HippityHop
Jun 28th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Right wing George Bush said he believed in Middle Eastern democratization and even started two wars in order to achieve that. Therefore, he must be very pleased that this has happened.

How about the other far right Republicans on this forum - what's your take? Are you equally pleased?

I was going to say exactly the same thing. Whats happened to the Grand Neocon plan to bring "freedom" to the Middle East? Bush said it would take twenty years for the world to appreciate his great vision. Looks like its only taken a few years and the previously secular states are all turning islamic.

*Nefertiti* your posts are some of the most interesting on this forum. Thanks for the insights, its better than listening to the BBC world news. I dont know why all those ppl didnt vote because there was always a good chance the wrong side would win the election. Lets hope there will be more elections in future.

It's interesting that you two seem to be blaming George Bush for the results in Egypt. I can only infer from your posts that you don't believe in democratic elections particularly for majority Islamic countries.

Personally, I don't believe that democracy is for everybody. Some nations need to have a strong dictator ruling them with an iron hand for the sake of their own people and the rest of the world.

HippityHop
Jun 28th, 2012, 02:20 PM
Im quite there would be some complaints of religious abuse if someone said the same thing about the moslem religion

Nobody is afraid to insult Christianity because they know that they won't be murdered for doing so. Some other religions however :o .

wta_zuperfann
Jun 28th, 2012, 05:08 PM
It's interesting that you two seem to be blaming George Bush for the results in Egypt. I can only infer from your posts that you don't believe in democratic elections particularly for majority Islamic countries.

Personally, I don't believe that democracy is for everybody. Some nations need to have a strong dictator ruling them with an iron hand for the sake of their own people and the rest of the world.


You completely misunderstood my intentions.

The delusional right wingers are ever so intent on starting wars in order to achieve their devious and imperialistic ways. Then they condemn anyone who dare to stray their their insipid ideocies because in their drugged up minds, God is ALWAYS on their side and f#ck all else.

For a while these murderous traitors of the far right were celebrating the Arab Spring on the grounds that their antichrist hero Bush was the inspiration for it. Now we see its inevitable consequence. So why aren't these moronic pundits celebrating???


So let's hear from them, NOW.

NAT
Jun 28th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Give me a break. Millions around the world over history have been murdered in the name of Christianity (Africa, Asia and the Americas). It is not a religious issue, the religions are more similar than not. The bible states that people should be killed for not following certain rules (read leviticus). The difference is that the societies in what is now mostly the Muslim world have evolved more slowly socially than SOME of the Christian world. It is a societal issue, not a religious one. All religions have crazy fundamentalists. Let's not forget that it was only 50 years ago that blacks were still murdered in the U.S by "good Christian folk" for trying to vote or go to school, and twice as many as were killed on 9-11 were murdered in Srebrenica, only 20 years ago, also by Christians. I have both a Bible and a Koran, and both books have lunatics who use them to try to justify their own agaendas.

King Halep
Jun 28th, 2012, 08:28 PM
It's interesting that you two seem to be blaming George Bush for the results in Egypt. I can only infer from your posts that you don't believe in democratic elections particularly for majority Islamic countries.

Personally, I don't believe that democracy is for everybody. Some nations need to have a strong dictator ruling them with an iron hand for the sake of their own people and the rest of the world.

I dont believe Bush or his neocon cronies ever intended for real democracy or human rights. Its just an excuse to steal US taxpayer money for themselves.

To have proper democratic elections in these countries, it would require outside help to oversee the elections so that they are not controlled by religious groups. The central government in Afghanistan will collapse soon after the western imperialists leave and return to religious groups

King Halep
Jun 28th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Give me a break. Millions around the world over history have been murdered in the name of Christianity (Africa, Asia and the Americas). It is not a religious issue, the religions are more similar than not. The bible states that people should be killed for not following certain rules (read leviticus). The difference is that the societies in what is now mostly the Muslim world have evolved more slowly socially than SOME of the Christian world. It is a societal issue, not a religious one. All religions have crazy fundamentalists. Let's not forget that it was only 50 years ago that blacks were still murdered in the U.S by "good Christian folk" for trying to vote or go to school, and twice as many as were killed on 9-11 were murdered in Srebrenica, only 20 years ago, also by Christians. I have both a Bible and a Koran, and both books have lunatics who use them to try to justify their own agaendas.

Sweety i agree with most of what you said about crimes taking place in the name of religion but people who use leviticus quotes as evidence dont know what they are talking about because those laws no longer apply.

NAT
Jun 28th, 2012, 09:38 PM
SWEETY, I know exactly what I am talking about. The point is that it is less a religious issue, than a societal one. Islam is the big, bad, boogie man, in the eyes of many, when Christians have been as (or more) guilty of the same crimes over history. The zealots who use ancient writings to justify their own agendas don't give a damn if the words come from the old testament, or new testament, or the micky mouse club handbook, so long as they can use them to convince others that they are in the right, and have the support of God.

HippityHop
Jun 29th, 2012, 12:53 AM
Give me a break. Millions around the world over history have been murdered in the name of Christianity (Africa, Asia and the Americas). It is not a religious issue, the religions are more similar than not. The bible states that people should be killed for not following certain rules (read leviticus). The difference is that the societies in what is now mostly the Muslim world have evolved more slowly socially than SOME of the Christian world. It is a societal issue, not a religious one. All religions have crazy fundamentalists. Let's not forget that it was only 50 years ago that blacks were still murdered in the U.S by "good Christian folk" for trying to vote or go to school, and twice as many as were killed on 9-11 were murdered in Srebrenica, only 20 years ago, also by Christians. I have both a Bible and a Koran, and both books have lunatics who use them to try to justify their own agaendas.

Were you so inclined today would you burn a Bible or a Koran? And if you decided to burn both who would you be more afraid of killing you today a Christian or someone else :o ?

HippityHop
Jun 29th, 2012, 12:55 AM
SWEETY, I know exactly what I am talking about. The point is that it is less a religious issue, than a societal one. Islam is the big, bad, boogie man, in the eyes of many, when Christians have been as (or more) guilty of the same crimes over history. The zealots who use ancient writings to justify their own agendas don't give a damn if the words come from the old testament, or new testament, or the micky mouse club handbook, so long as they can use them to convince others that they are in the right, and have the support of God.

No you don't.

NAT
Jun 29th, 2012, 01:17 AM
Great rebuttle:rolleyes:. I have read the Bible and Koran (though I am against organized religion) and I am pretty confident on the issue. Please though feel free to prove how I am wrong.

Again Hippity, you are missing the point. If I were to burn a bible 300 years ago, I would be as likely to be killed in most Christian countries, as I would in some Muslim countries today. Neither religion has changed, the words in the holy books are the same today as they were then. The difference is that the SOCIETIES today that are mostly Christian have evolved in certain areas, where in SOME predominately Muslim countries, they have not. The difference is not between the religions, only among some of those who claim to follow them. Remember that the most populated Muslim country is Indonesia, and another is Turkey, neither of which are known as nests of terrorism or extremism.

Halardfan
Jun 29th, 2012, 02:41 AM
Great rebuttle:rolleyes:. I have read the Bible and Koran (though I am against organized religion) and I am pretty confident on the issue. Please though feel free to prove how I am wrong.

Again Hippity, you are missing the point. If I were to burn a bible 300 years ago, I would be as likely to be killed in most Christian countries, as I would in some Muslim countries today. Neither religion has changed, the words in the holy books are the same today as they were then. The difference is that the SOCIETIES today that are mostly Christian have evolved in certain areas, where in SOME predominately Muslim countries, they have not. The difference is not between the religions, only among some of those who claim to follow them. Remember that the most populated Muslim country is Indonesia, and another is Turkey, neither of which are known as nests of terrorism or extremism.

Certainly societies have evolved in different ways, and that accounts for some of the realities of the world today.

Yet surely religions have evolved too? Indeed it has often been the evolution of religions which have shaped the societies, as well as vice-versa.

Religion in western Europe has clearly become more moderate in recent centuries, to a degree to which Islam simply has not.

I don't believe Christianity is somehow inherently superior, there have been times in history when it has been a much more destructive force than Islam.

But as we speak today, I believe Islam has further to go in catching up with the modern world.

*JR*
Jun 29th, 2012, 02:57 AM
Were you so inclined today would you burn a Bible or a Koran? And if you decided to burn both who would you be more afraid of killing you today a Christian or someone else :o ?

If I were in Belfast and a Protestant on the Garvaghy Road; or a Catholic on the Shankill Road, I'd think the Christians of the neighborhood. :scared:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/in-pictures--northern-ireland-troubles-14322589.html?ino=1

NAT
Jun 29th, 2012, 04:50 AM
Halardfan,
I understand where you are coming from, but I still beleive it is the society that shapes the religion more so than the other way around. Surely Islam is practiced differently today in Indonesia than in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Nigeria, NYC or wherever. The Koran is the same in all these places, the writings and the pillars. It is the society where it exists that allows or not allows it to evolve and be interpreted differently. Society as a whole in Western Europe for example has advanced on many fronts more than much of the Arab world, but the average German, or Pole, or Spaniard is no more peaceful or loving than the average Bosnian or Indonesian. I am just sick of hearing how Islam is evil, and contrary to peace, when even in the last 20 years, far more Muslims have been killed by Christians or Jews,than vice versa (one can check death totals from the Yugoslav wars and the Israel/Palesine conflict). The terrorists in Ireland, or the murderers in Serbia (yes, I know there were atrocities on all sides), were they any more advanced than the murderers from Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?