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bertoltbrecht
May 31st, 2012, 07:17 PM
Put a Williams on the other side of the net and these journey women become GOATS! I knew this ish would happen. If only Serena, if only....Razzano, you suck!! And Serena, you should be kicking your own arse for this travesty!

Ellery
May 31st, 2012, 07:18 PM
Virginie Razzano is NOT a journeywoman :help:

lizchris
May 31st, 2012, 07:19 PM
I have been saying that since Venus lost to Schett at the FO in 2001 in the first round. Spectacular against the Williams sisters, but can't do s**t against other players after they beat a Willaims sister.

bertoltbrecht
May 31st, 2012, 07:21 PM
Virginie Razzano is NOT a journeywoman :help:

Oh, she isn't? What has she done of note other than beating Serena in the 1st round of the French?

M.S.F
May 31st, 2012, 07:23 PM
It's not just Serena and Venus but more like the seeded player/big event effect.

StoneRose
May 31st, 2012, 07:23 PM
Bitterness burns.

flareon
May 31st, 2012, 07:26 PM
I dislike the term journeywomen, and virginie most certainly is not a journeywomen!

babsi
May 31st, 2012, 07:26 PM
I have been saying that since Venus lost to Schett at the FO in 2001 in the first round. Spectacular against the Williams sisters, but can't do s**t against other players after they beat a Willaims sister.

How come she was 1-7 against them combined then?

Including a 6-0 6-0 loss to Serena two years later at RG.

Dodoboy.
May 31st, 2012, 07:27 PM
I have been saying that since Venus lost to Schett at the FO in 2001 in the first round. Spectacular against the Williams sisters, but can't do s**t against other players after they beat a Willaims sister.

Venus did WHAT? :crying2::haha:

It is VERY VERY annoying. Like VERY annoying. They don't even do it against the CLijsters and Sharapovas!

HippityHop
May 31st, 2012, 07:28 PM
I have been saying that since Venus lost to Schett at the FO in 2001 in the first round. Spectacular against the Williams sisters, but can't do s**t against other players after they beat a Willaims sister.

It shows who they think they have to beat in order to get some real buzz. What other players get as much press when they lose? Regardless of how old Venus or Serena are, regardless of what form they are in, they are still the most important players to beat. Beat Sharapova and it's ho hum. :yawn: Beat Azarenka and it's snore time. :zzz: But beat a Williams and the presses stop around the world.

That is what makes them legends. :) :wavey:

LoveFifteen
May 31st, 2012, 07:29 PM
Those grapes are sour, gurl.

Queenpova
May 31st, 2012, 07:32 PM
All the lesser girls play better against the top girls.
Pathetic thread

madmax
May 31st, 2012, 07:33 PM
I sense a huge overdose of bitterness here

pov
May 31st, 2012, 07:35 PM
But beat a Williams and the presses stop around the world.

Not really. Maybe at one time. What made Razzano's win garner so much press was because she beat Serena Williams - a player with a 17-0 season on clay before RG -in R1 of a major. Something never done before. If it had been R3 the hoopla would have been much less. But still - the WS are the only active tennis icons.

Charlatan
May 31st, 2012, 07:39 PM
It's not just Serena and Venus but more like the seeded player/big event effect.

Bitterness burns.

Those grapes are sour, gurl.

All the lesser girls play better against the top girls.
Pathetic thread

Basically

Leo_DFP
May 31st, 2012, 07:44 PM
I think there are a lot of factors involved. Partly the underdog is playing up to the Williams challenge and plays with extra adrenaline. But also the Williams are much lesser players on some days - i.e. they give up points with unforced errors and simultaneously when they are in rallies they are tense and hitting shorter in the court. Unlike the Sharapovas or Clijsters, both Williams technique can break down in a way when they're not in a groove so that they are hitting very short. This makes it easier for the underdog, who is obviously a commendable player in their own right and likely possesses some weapons/ability to play offense, to attack.

Serena against Razzano came up with some big winners under pressure, but also a combination of bad misses and meek hitting. Rus would not have been under nearly the same pressure as a non-tournament favorite and was able to hit with more normal depth.

Ryan
May 31st, 2012, 07:47 PM
Oh, she isn't? What has she done of note other than beating Serena in the 1st round of the French?


Troll. Go look it up. Just because something is a career highlight doesn't mean your other achievements are irrelevant.

Halepsova
May 31st, 2012, 08:03 PM
You need to move on. Serena probably went out shopping on Champs Elyssees today.

Matt01
May 31st, 2012, 08:05 PM
Oh, she isn't? What has she done of note other than beating Serena in the 1st round of the French?


She beat Hingis at another Slam and she beat Venus to win a WTA tournament. Beating washed up Serena on clay isn't even her biggest win. :ras:

Dawson.
May 31st, 2012, 08:10 PM
Beating Serena or Venus makes the tournament for these players. They are probably too busy patting themselves on the back to realise that they are getting their ass handed to them in the next round.

tennisfan5
May 31st, 2012, 08:13 PM
I have been saying that since Venus lost to Schett at the FO in 2001 in the first round. Spectacular against the Williams sisters, but can't do s**t against other players after they beat a Willaims sister.

Schett was a top 10 player in her career.

faboozadoo15
May 31st, 2012, 09:00 PM
:rolleyes: How many times have we seen decent players play like crap against top players, including Venus and Serena?

:confused: I thought fans of Venus and Serena wanted everyone to think they were the most feared, intimidating players of all time.

faboozadoo15
May 31st, 2012, 09:01 PM
Schett was a top 10 player in her career.

And that was when there were only 16 seeds.

jrm
May 31st, 2012, 09:03 PM
oh Lord, i just saw Serena and Venus walking on moon :o

edificio
May 31st, 2012, 09:07 PM
It's not just Serena and Venus but more like the seeded player/big event effect.

Yes.

:rolleyes: How many times have we seen decent players play like crap against top players, including Venus and Serena?

:confused: I thought fans of Venus and Serena wanted everyone to think they were the most feared, intimidating players of all time.

That's obviously your issue. :shrug:

perseus2006
May 31st, 2012, 09:59 PM
A lot of bitter, nasty, butt hurt posters today.

dynamoRockstarr
May 31st, 2012, 10:22 PM
To me it shows they know who the best are, and they give it their all and put on spectacular performances. I don't think those players are looking to get noticed they just raise their game because of the occasion against a top quality player. Unfortunately the top players are more vulnerable in the beginning of a tournament than later, so the ones that have nothing to lose just go for it.

Anabelcroft
May 31st, 2012, 10:31 PM
Venus did WHAT? :crying2::haha:

It is VERY VERY annoying. Like VERY annoying.

Shett was a top 10 player and can't be described as a journey-woman as much as somebody wants it!

HippityHop
May 31st, 2012, 10:32 PM
:rolleyes: How many times have we seen decent players play like crap against top players, including Venus and Serena?

:confused: I thought fans of Venus and Serena wanted everyone to think they were the most feared, intimidating players of all time.


You thought like Litt. ;)

Alejandrawrrr
May 31st, 2012, 10:43 PM
They definitely do it more to Serena/Venus than Clijsters/Maria, but to be fair they also used to do this sometimes to Graf, not as often due to a number of factors. She didn't play until she was 30+, the average level of lesser players wasn't quite as high back then, and throughout her career she played at a relatively high level more consistently. Even though Pierce is certainly not a journeywoman she definitely played the best or second best match of her entire career just in time against Graf, and also McNeil that same year IIRC.

Vespertine69
Jun 1st, 2012, 12:22 AM
I think it's an inevitable effect of a star name, and over the years Serena and Venus have been two of the biggest names on tour. The effect applies to all big name players I think, but perhaps there is a case that it is even more extreme with (especially Serena, I guess) with Venus and Serena.

However, the most vital thing to remember is that the effect works in both directions... "lesser" players are pushed to perform against the biggest name players and sometimes this leads to them scoring a great upset... but (much more often, I think) the stress of this can also cause a lesser player to be so nervous they screw things up that otherwise they'd be capable of. I think a lot depends on the psychology of the "lesser" player involved... there are some who don't excel on tour all year but have several career upsets of big seeds in slams because that sort of pressure drives them to perform better... but there are so many lesser players who get severely routed in those early slam rounds against the best players but can show a better standard of play when the pressure is off in smaller events.

I think it's maybe just hard to see both sides sometimes...

babsi
Jun 1st, 2012, 12:59 AM
The later years of Babsi's career she was a journey woman, sad to say but it is true. Probably from 2003 onwards, she had a couple of good tournaments. A variety of factors contributed to this, she never ever really recovered totally from some losses she had, the Daily Mirror saga in 2001, boyfriend issues (Bernoldi). I think age may have caught up with her as she was as never fit as she should have been. She was very weak mentally.

gmokb
Jun 1st, 2012, 03:26 AM
I am not bitter but I knew she would lose her next match, it seems to always happen. Now watch Aga go own.