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View Full Version : Was Razzano's win over Serena the most stunning upset ever in women's tennis!?


Matt-TennisFan24
May 30th, 2012, 02:09 AM
Razzano, as 111th in the World, beat the No.5 ranked player Serena, who had been unbeaten on clay that season (winning Madrid and semis in Rome) and who had never lost a 1R match in a GS.

I think it was a big shock, but was it the biggest ever?

What do you think?

Roookie
May 30th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Yep. Biggest ever.

The 2nd Law
May 30th, 2012, 02:13 AM
It has to be up there :(

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 02:13 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

it-girl
May 30th, 2012, 02:14 AM
It's up there for sure. Because it came from out of nowhere. Serena has had success and decent results at Roland Garros and has had a good clay court season. So this was very shocking.

Nicolás89
May 30th, 2012, 02:14 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:spit:

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 02:16 AM
:spit:

She's my 2nd fave, too :sobbing:

kfh_9118
May 30th, 2012, 02:16 AM
it's shocking due to the fact it's Razzano who defeated her and Serena never lost 1st Rd GS ever, until yesterday :sobbing:

DefyingGravity
May 30th, 2012, 02:17 AM
I feel like all of these other losses have an excuse:

Justine had that cytomegalovirus or whatever against Garbin
Steffi began to aggravate a back injury.
Ivanovic's form indicated that she was going to be upset.
Hingis was still hungover from that Roland Garros debacle.

Serena's loss seemingly comes out of the blue, unless she's hiding an injury or something. So yes, Serena's loss probably is the biggest upset in the past couple of decades.

GO李娜
May 30th, 2012, 02:18 AM
Yes.

The 2nd Law
May 30th, 2012, 02:19 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:sobbing:

mckyle.
May 30th, 2012, 02:20 AM
You do realize McNeil was ranked #22 when she beat Graf, right? :lol: Definitely showing some ignorance of tennis history by including that match.

But Serena's loss is definitely up there.

RyanGuy
May 30th, 2012, 02:23 AM
Definitely, never did I think she would lose 1st rd and never did i think it would be at the peak of her clay career

Charlatan
May 30th, 2012, 02:24 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:crying2:

Barktra
May 30th, 2012, 02:25 AM
All I can say is who the hell knows what is going to happen the rest of the tournament.

You do realize McNeil was ranked #22 when she beat Graf, right? :lol: Definitely showing some ignorance of tennis history by including that match.

But Serena's loss is definitely up there.

How can that be possible? They met first round. :eek: That's weird.

Doully
May 30th, 2012, 02:25 AM
Tough call.

Went for Graf as she was just ridiculously dominant on grass until that loss. She'd won it the three previous years and had only one previous loss since '88 :tape:

Henin on the other hand could have been well on her way to breaking Seles' consecutive RG streak rather than to just tie it between 05-07. Still, she was affected by the virus that had her out until the Olympics.

Both were still well in their prime years too.

Still. Today was a thriller and it won't be forgotten for years to come.

mckyle.
May 30th, 2012, 02:29 AM
How can that be possible? They met first round. :eek: That's weird.

Up until 2001 Wimbledon, there were only 16 seeds at the slams instead of 32.

tennisrules
May 30th, 2012, 02:29 AM
It's very possible.

*1994 Graf was coming off a pasting by Pierce at the French plus McNeil had always given her lots of trouble
*1999 Hingis was a mental and physical wreck after her French meltdown
*2004 Henin came into that French not having played a tournament since April and was battling a viral infection
*2008 Ana had barely played going into that year's U.S. Open and just couldn't mentally handle being #1 in the world

All 4 of the above women went into their matches with shaky confidence and were ripe for an upset.

2012 Serena was, by all accounts, playing extremely well and confidently. So, by default, it's probably Razzano over Serena if we're going by the choices listed here.

But, in truth, the most shocking upset in women's tennis is probably Kathleen Horvath over Martina Navratilova at the 1983 French Open. Martina was wiping the floor with everyone that year, in fact it was her only loss in 1983.

Aravanecaravan
May 30th, 2012, 02:32 AM
Horvath over Navratilova in the '83 French.

Only player to beat Martina that year.

&#$#&$ Somebody beat me to it....but it shouldn't even be up for debate. That one should be the first and only one on the list.

TennisAddict84
May 30th, 2012, 02:34 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:lol: had a good chuckle at that

Barktra
May 30th, 2012, 02:38 AM
Up until 2001 Wimbledon, there were only 16 seeds at the slams instead of 32.

:lol:

I should have known this :rolls:

danieln1
May 30th, 2012, 03:02 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

Exactly.

No one ever heard about Coin before that match.

No one ever heard about Coin after that match.

Razzano is kind of a accomplished player with nice wins over her belt

Coin? Not.

It´s a toss up between today and that 2R US Open match.

TPlaya8
May 30th, 2012, 03:03 AM
Well we all know about Serena not being well on clay and you still counting this as an upset...what about Henin's first round lost in Wimbledon '05 after being a favorite and just winning French....I also think her SF loss to Bartoli was bigger but maybe you were talking about first rounds.

Jane Lane
May 30th, 2012, 03:07 AM
Julie Coin :hysteric:

SELVEN
May 30th, 2012, 03:15 AM
The scoreline of Hingis in Wimbledon 1999 was very shocking and hurt for me, but yeah,never ever expected that Serena lost so early this time.

treufreund
May 30th, 2012, 03:42 AM
No it was Jill Craybas over Serena at Wimbledon!

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 03:46 AM
No it was Jill Craybas over Serena at Wimbledon!

Serena was out of shape and coming off a string of injuries.

treufreund
May 30th, 2012, 03:52 AM
Serena was out of shape and coming off a string of injuries.


Yeah but this way red clay. That was GRASS where Serena's serve and return should have won her the match.

TPlaya8
May 30th, 2012, 03:58 AM
Yeah but this way red clay. That was GRASS where Serena's serve and return should have won her the match.

But still that was in the 3rd round Serena barley got past Angela Haynes in the 1st round and went to three sets in the 2nd round and she didn't even play the french that year. She was a mess and out of shape Serena didn't get back in shape until 2007

Vaidisova
May 30th, 2012, 04:25 AM
Yes

Vincey!
May 30th, 2012, 04:30 AM
I don't think it was that shocking tbh. I never felt that Serena was strong coming to this year RG. She was one of the favorite but I personally felt tht her game wasn't there in Rome and with that injury she wouldn't have been totally ready to perform well on the red clay in Paris. So her losing at Roland Garros to Razzano is not shocking to me. In 1st round yes, I mean it's a first for her so that's kinda weird. What's more shocking tho is that she didn't seem to give any excuses such as injuries or bad umpiring or the crowd for her loss. Even tho, it seemed obvious to me that there was something wrong going on, she was not moving well and not using her body in most of her shots.

Talula
May 30th, 2012, 04:48 AM
I feel like all of these other losses have an excuse:

Justine had that cytomegalovirus or whatever against Garbin
Steffi began to aggravate a back injury.
Ivanovic's form indicated that she was going to be upset.
Hingis was still hungover from that Roland Garros debacle.

Serena's loss seemingly comes out of the blue, unless she's hiding an injury or something. So yes, Serena's loss probably is the biggest upset in the past couple of decades.

Yes.

This loss is especially shocking because of the manner of the loss. Serena pretty much had match points and imploded. No offence to Virginie but Serena really lost it rather than VR winning it. It really is the most shocking loss I have seen - more than my previous number 1 shocker which was Hingis against Graf in 99.

ziros
May 30th, 2012, 04:53 AM
No,hell no - Serena was way overrated going into this RG,she can't play at a consistent level for long enough any more to win a GS

RobM88
May 30th, 2012, 05:18 AM
I also think when two-time defending champion Capriati went out in the first round at the Australian in 2003 to Marlene Weingartner 2-6, 7-6 (8-6), 6-4... that was a shocking match! Marlene was ranked #90 I believe and Jennifer #3.

bobito
May 30th, 2012, 06:53 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

You are right on all three counts but it's worth also remembering that Serena is 30 years old and hasn't won a slam in nearly two years. I voted McNeil v Graf. Lori was the best of the giant-killers in this list but Steffi was the best of the slain giants. Also, unlike Serena, Steffi was playing on her favourite surface.

Navratil
May 30th, 2012, 06:59 AM
And the thing is that Serena didn't play bad in the first two sets! What a sensational performance from Razzano!

Smith Saybrook
May 30th, 2012, 07:09 AM
Based on Serena's form on the dirt, I'd have to say it's one of the biggest shocks. Watching her choke away 2nd serve returns and neutral rallies is probably the most surprising bit of it all.

StephenUK
May 30th, 2012, 07:24 AM
I think the most shocking upset ever has to be Martina Navratilova's loss to Kathy Horvath in the 1983 French Open fourth round, her only loss that entire year and a just inexplicable loss.

This match is up there, though, I would put it alongside the Hingis defeat and Henin's loss to Bartoli in Wimbledon 2007, it was a mental meltdown by a great of the game, there is no other word to describe the collapse, so it was definitely one of the greatest shocks in the open era. The bizarre drama of the match, Serena was just panicking, not using her brain out there, and besides that, faced with an opponent who was cramping, penalised for hindrance and choking badly on so many match points, it was amazing that Serena herself choked when she had the chance to get things back on serve. Given Serena's supreme form on clay beforehand, there was absolutely no reason for this performance, it just came out of nowhere, it just goes to show that you never can tell in tennis.

mckyle.
May 30th, 2012, 07:26 AM
^^ Thanks for mentioning Henin/Bartoli! That was the definition of a stunning upset! Bartoli truly wiped the floor with Henin in that third set. Remarkable stuff!

AYUMI-GOAT
May 30th, 2012, 07:27 AM
What about JJ getting upset by Diyas :oh:

Kooyong
May 30th, 2012, 07:32 AM
No, this isn't the biggest upset in WTA history, If this was the 2002 French Open when Serena was close to her peak then yes but Serena isn't quite as good as then

Hy defeating Capriati at the U.S Open
1991 US Open (I think) Monica Seles lost to a little known Italian player

Hachiko
May 30th, 2012, 07:35 AM
Razzano is a former top 20 player so it's not the most shocking. She has beaten Venus before too.

Brad[le]y.
May 30th, 2012, 07:36 AM
What about JJ getting upset by Diyas :oh:

upset?

chingching
May 30th, 2012, 07:37 AM
Dpkoic was by far the most shocking. 2 and 0 against the Roland Garros champion as Wildcard

The 2nd Law
May 30th, 2012, 07:41 AM
Dpkoic was by far the most shocking. 2 and 0 against the Roland Garros champion as Wildcard

Hingis never won RG :secret:

Brad[le]y.
May 30th, 2012, 07:43 AM
Dpkoic was by far the most shocking. 2 and 0 against the Roland Garros champion as Wildcard

Lol wut? :spit: That's just cruel.

oh and Dokic was a Q.

aselto
May 30th, 2012, 07:44 AM
Lol wut? :spit: That's just cruel.

oh and Dokic was a Q.

You should put Serena's name between [s] [/ s] in your signature :sobbing:

doomsday
May 30th, 2012, 07:58 AM
It has to be one of the most, no doubt about it.
And she lost against a Frenchie, here in France we will never hear the end of it :help:

debby
May 30th, 2012, 08:20 AM
It has to be one of the most, no doubt about it.
And she lost against a Frenchie, here in France we will never hear the end of it :help:

Good, I won't hear about Maria that much.

Shivank17
May 30th, 2012, 08:23 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:crying2:

Shivank17
May 30th, 2012, 08:24 AM
Jankovic beating Mayr is a close 2nd. :unsure: :oh:

Queenpova
May 30th, 2012, 08:28 AM
Why is Ivanovic in the poll with all those champions? :help:

flareon
May 30th, 2012, 08:35 AM
It is one of them, but ana was world no 1 and I had never heard of coin...

zigga
May 30th, 2012, 08:35 AM
Yes it probably was the biigest upset.

Jankovic beating Mayr is a close 2nd. :unsure: :oh:

:haha:

laurie
May 30th, 2012, 09:06 AM
Up until 2001 Wimbledon, there were only 16 seeds at the slams instead of 32.

Was it 12 seeds only up to the mid 1990s? And then 16 seeds up to 2001 and then 32. I remember Agassi won the US Open unseeded, but he was ranked around 15 in the world? Anyone can confirm it was just 12 seeds in slams in the early 1990s?

rnwerner
May 30th, 2012, 09:15 AM
The quality of play was not good enough to call it the most stunning upset ever.

GoDominique
May 30th, 2012, 09:16 AM
Was it 12 seeds only up to the mid 1990s? And then 16 seeds up to 2001 and then 32. I remember Agassi won the US Open unseeded, but he was ranked around 15 in the world? Anyone can confirm it was just 12 seeds in slams in the early 1990s?
No, it's been 16 seeds since at least the late 80's, probably longer.

EDIT: Just checked - since forever. :p

Valanga
May 30th, 2012, 09:18 AM
Yes.

Tenis Srbija
May 30th, 2012, 09:21 AM
Possibly. You can't really compare Dokić beating Hingis with Razzano beating Williams 'cause JD went on to No4 in the world eventually and Hingis never got to SF at Wimbledon after 1998. + she has the worst record out of all Grand Slams in London :shrug:

razzer
May 30th, 2012, 09:22 AM
No because Serena is overrated.

doomsday
May 30th, 2012, 09:27 AM
Good, I won't hear about Maria that much.

Stop jinxing her.:lol:

ServeCaspian
May 30th, 2012, 09:28 AM
Up there for sure. Although non-trolls were well aware of her mental block at RG. Nobody expected quite a performance like that, especially not in R1.

vozas
May 30th, 2012, 09:48 AM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

:spit::spit::spit::spit:

markdelaney
May 30th, 2012, 10:34 AM
Kathy Horvath beating Martina Navratilova in 1983 was a bigger shock than any of the given choices . It was the only match Martina lost all year. Virginie was ranked at 16 three years ago, before her injury problems, so is clearly far better than her current ranking. Still a big surprise but Serena is clearly not 100%.

John.
May 30th, 2012, 10:40 AM
Already mentoned, but Martina's loss at the 1983 French Open wins this by a mile

BH both wings
May 30th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Well, I certainly wasn't surprised too much. Otherwise I wouldn't have put some money on Razzano. S. Williams, lacking physical fitness, sucks on clay. No big deal ...

Nalby fan
May 30th, 2012, 10:54 AM
As others have said,Kathy Horvath beating Martina Navratilova at the French Open in 1983 is the obvious choice for biggest ever upset.

Tenis Srbija
May 30th, 2012, 10:56 AM
Well, I certainly wasn't surprised too much. Otherwise I wouldn't have put some money on Razzano. S. Williams, lacking physical fitness, sucks on clay. No big deal ...

So, where have you been lately? :lol:

BH both wings
May 30th, 2012, 10:59 AM
So, where have you been lately? :lol:

She only played like 3 matches on clay this season, and she didn't play very well there from what I saw. Her movement was bad and her ballstriking not too convincing either.

Tenis Srbija
May 30th, 2012, 11:06 AM
She only played like 3 matches on clay this season, and she didn't play very well there from what I saw. Her movement was bad and her ballstriking not too convincing either.

No matter what people say, Madrid is still a tournament on clay. Fast clay, but still much more clay then hard court. Also, Charleston was on clay. Again, different then "normal" clay but still the same example as for Madrid... ;)

Beny
May 30th, 2012, 11:13 AM
I would say there are matches that were similarly shocking.

Bartoli def. Henin in Wimbledon SF 07. That one absolutely no-one saw coming.

Also Schiavone def. Stosur RG 10. Stosur having beaten Henin, S. Williams, Jankovic, while Fran got to the final through retirement and the likes of Kirilenko. Plus Schiavone has never won a big title, never beaten top players regularly. All she won was some 2 MM tourneys plus Moscow with a superweak field.

Dokic def. Hingis was a shocker.

This Serena´s loss is among these

Marcus1979
May 30th, 2012, 11:15 AM
Up until 2001 Wimbledon, there were only 16 seeds at the slams instead of 32.

exactly its the reason Venus met Barbara Schett first round in 2001 at Roland Garros.

fouc
May 30th, 2012, 11:21 AM
Jankovic beating Mayr is a close 2nd. :unsure: :oh:

:lol:

goldenlox
May 30th, 2012, 11:22 AM
Serena was 46-0 in round 1's of majors.
So this was much more than Bartoli-Henin. That was a shock because Henin was cruising. Suddenly Bartoli got zoned & Justine was in cruise control & couldnt kick it up a notch. Last year Bartoli beat both Serena & Kvitova on grass. So historically, that was not an amazing upset.

I'm not sure what career Horvath had so that's in the ballpark. Was Navs thought of as a mental midget for years?
Imagine if Serena lost round 1 of the 2011 USO after that great summer.
Would be on that level. So I still say this one

Marcus1979
May 30th, 2012, 11:27 AM
does Sprem against Venus in 2004 count since Venus had made at least the QF at WImbledon every year from 1998-2003?

Or Pironkova in 2010 since Venus had final the last 3 years in a row?

Capriati in 2003 Australian Open against Weingartner?

SymphonyX
May 30th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Why the hell is Ivanovic up there? She sucks.

Serena's loss yesterday is definitely one of the biggest upsets ever. I was totally looking forward to a Serena vs Sharapova QF. It'd be a bigger match than the final.

TheKid!
May 30th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Garbin over Henin was much more shocking :lol: Tathiana didn't have the support of the crowd, she was playing the player of the moment, and it was on the most important court.

Viktymise
May 30th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Why the hell is Ivanovic up there? She sucks.

:spit:

StoneRose
May 30th, 2012, 11:38 AM
Yes. But still it's not entirely coincidental, Serena needs to lose some of the pressure she has been laying on herself. Since her comeback she performing better in smaller tournaments than in slams which isn't like her.

Juju Nostalgique
May 30th, 2012, 11:44 AM
Just 2 things:

1) I'm overwhelmed by the sheer ignorance of some members. Tennis was not invented in 2005.

2) Not everything concerning the WS is the biggest or the greatest. Maybe most of the facts are, but please a little objectivity is welcome!

I think this result is shocking considering that SW was playing well before Paris, but I wouldn't say it's the biggest shock ever. I'd have to think about which was the biggest one but I'm lazy now, it's lunch time! ;)

BH both wings
May 30th, 2012, 11:49 AM
No matter what people say, Madrid is still a tournament on clay. Fast clay, but still much more clay then hard court. Also, Charleston was on clay. Again, different then "normal" clay but still the same example as for Madrid... ;)

Madrid might have been clay technically, but in terms of tennis, it was not. It was worse than grass in terms of movement, which helped the lazy movers like Hradecka or Williams a lot, while it hurted the real clay court players big time. I'm sorry, but I will not consider it a clay tournament as long as it has the opposite characteristics of a clay tournament.

LoveFifteen
May 30th, 2012, 11:50 AM
If by "ever in women's tennis history", you actually mean "in the past six years since I started watching tennis", then yes! :o

StoneRose
May 30th, 2012, 11:51 AM
Madrid might have been clay technically, but in terms of tennis, it was not. It was worse than grass in terms of movement, which helped the lazy movers like Hradecka or Williams a lot, while it hurted the real clay court players big time. I'm sorry, but I will not consider it a clay tournament as long as it has the opposite characteristics of a clay tournament.Agree.

Craig.
May 30th, 2012, 11:54 AM
Why the hell is Ivanovic up there? She sucks.

:hysteric:

John.
May 30th, 2012, 12:17 PM
If by "ever in women's tennis history", you actually mean "in the past six years since I started watching tennis", then yes! :o

:rolls:

thrust
May 30th, 2012, 12:53 PM
I would say yes, especially in the way she lost the match. Up a set and leading 5-2 in the second set tiebreaker, it was rather unthinkable that Serena could lose. That, and considering her success prior to RG and Virginie's lack of it, made this loss very surprising.

GeeTee
May 30th, 2012, 12:54 PM
No, it's been 16 seeds since at least the late 80's, probably longer.

EDIT: Just checked - since forever. :p

Nah - 8 seeds only until the late 70s..then 12...then 16...now 32...soon it will probably be 64...

If by "ever in women's tennis history", you actually mean "in the past six years since I started watching tennis", then yes! :o:worship:

Queenpova
May 30th, 2012, 01:50 PM
Another One:

Ruano Def. Legend 6-4 6-2 Wimbly 01 R1

LEGEND WAS #1 so its a much bigger upset

debby
May 30th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Remember when people thought Ivanovic was the next superstar ?

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Remember when people thought Ivanovic was the next superstar ?

She was for about 4 minutes

Queenpova
May 30th, 2012, 01:56 PM
Remember when people thought Ivanovic was the next superstar ?

Well, after sharapova , she's probably the most popular endorsements/media wise

Excelscior
May 30th, 2012, 01:58 PM
With all due respect to Rena, her fans and the OP; of course not!

You'd have to have no knowledge of tennis history the past few decades to feel that way. Others have mentioned many of them already, so I won't.

What I will say is, only people who bought into the breathless Serena hype (yes she was A Favorite certainly coming in; but not THE FAVORITE), believed this was such a monumental upset.

Green/Brown Clay in America and NEW, SLIPPERY Blue Clay in Madrid, is not real clay. Combine that with the fact that Serena has had many 3 set-1st rd French Open matches in her career as well. Let's also not forget, the conditions and court at RG are nothing like Madrid and Charleston. Add to that, Serena mysteriously dropped out of Rome (as she inexplicably dropped out of Cincinnati before the US Open), along with her questionable health, footwork, ground game, recent performance in majors, age-post health scare/questionable current fitness, and it should all makes sense.

Unfortunately for Serena, it happened, so soon in the first round, to such a low ranked player. I guess we'll see what happens next? Stay tuned.

Good Luck Serena

Sammo
May 30th, 2012, 02:11 PM
Ah hell no, Graf and Hingis were in her primes, Serena is 30.

debby
May 30th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Well, after sharapova , she's probably the most popular endorsements/media wise

Apart from that?
She clearly is not a superstar, tennis wise.

n1_and_uh_noone
May 30th, 2012, 03:03 PM
Only on TF. Tennis history = last couple of days of most recent Slam.

30 yrs old, on her worst surface, facing her worst nightmare (RG crowd+sentimental crowd favorite)... nuff said.

QuestJon
May 30th, 2012, 04:16 PM
With all due respect to Rena, her fans and the OP; of course not!

You'd have to have no knowledge of tennis history the past few decades to feel that way. Others have mentioned many of them already, so I won't.

What I will is, only people who bought into the breathless Serena hype (yes she was A Favorite certainly coming in; but not THE FAVORITE), believed this was such a monumental upset.

Green/Brown Clay in America and NEW, SLIPPERY Blue Clay in Madrid, is not real clay. Combine that with the fact that Serena has had many 3 set-1st rd French Open matches in her career as well. And the conditions and court at RG are nothing like Madrid and Charleston. Add to that, Serena mysteriously dropped out of Rome (as she inexplicably dropped out of Cincinnati before the US Open), along with her questionable health, footwork, ground game, recent performance in majors, age-post health scare/questionable current fitness, and it should all makes sense.

Unfortunately for Serena, it happened, so soon in the first round, to such a low ranked player. I guess we'll see what happens next? Stay tuned.

Good Luck Serena


This.

O.k. If some people haven't been able to put this
together before the event happened.

But at least after it happened please be smart enough to
open your mind for some logic.

theFutureisNow
May 30th, 2012, 04:34 PM
With all due respect to Rena, her fans and the OP; of course not!

You'd have to have no knowledge of tennis history the past few decades to feel that way. Others have mentioned many of them already, so I won't.

What I will say is, only people who bought into the breathless Serena hype (yes she was A Favorite certainly coming in; but not THE FAVORITE), believed this was such a monumental upset.



This isn't true. Based on betting odds Serena was the big favorite to win. Sharapova and Azarenka were a very distant second.

As for biggest ever, who knows? But I would say it was arguably a bigger upset than any of the other options listed here.

It is basically unheard of for an all-time great who was the significant slam favorite to lose to the 100th ranked player in the first round. I don't know, but I think it is fairly likely this has never happened before.

Yonexforever
May 30th, 2012, 04:39 PM
You do realize McNeil was ranked #22 when she beat Graf, right? :lol: Definitely showing some ignorance of tennis history by including that match.

But Serena's loss is definitely up there.

McNeil may have been no 22 but wasnt Graf defending champion and no1 at the time?

Excelscior
May 30th, 2012, 04:41 PM
This isn't true. Based on betting odds Serena was the big favorite to win. Sharapova and Azarenka were a very distant second.

As for biggest ever, who knows? But I would say it was arguably a bigger upset than any of the other options listed here.

It is basically unheard of for an all-time great who was the significant slam favorite to lose to the 100th ranked player in the first round. I don't know, but I think it is fairly likely this has never happened before.

The basic point I was trying to make was, regardless of the odds, Serena was never (or shouldn't have been) a big favorite for this tournament to begin with. And I presented the reasons/evidence for this.

Lastly, many of the other big faves that lost in the past, were in the prime of their careers, and/or on their best surfaces (like Graf to McNeil).

Serena is older, of questionable health and fitness, a historic poor performer at RG, and won her previous tournaments on phantom clay, that don't translate to RG. And until proven otherwise, Serena's also appears to have lost her ground game, Grand Slam edge/emotional stability.

So I don't see why this would be the all time shocker in the least bit.

Yonexforever
May 30th, 2012, 04:41 PM
By the way, Pam Shriver's victory over Graf in Madison Square Garden was HUUUUGE!
Pam played out of her mind and wasnt known to even come close to beating Graf on an important occasion before OR after that match.

Just Do It
May 30th, 2012, 04:43 PM
No. Razzano used to be a top player, very experienced and this was on clay. Dokic as a 16 yo beating Hingis out of nowhere, 2 and 0 was a bigger shock.

MegaDethly
May 30th, 2012, 04:45 PM
Bartoli over Henin. Wimbledon 2007

Yonexforever
May 30th, 2012, 04:45 PM
Conchita beating Navratilova in a Wimbledon final should also be listed.
Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena taking bad/early losses will ALWAYS be news since they are considered amongst the greatest.

iWill
May 30th, 2012, 05:13 PM
does Sprem against Venus in 2004 count since Venus had made at least the QF at WImbledon every year from 1998-2003?

Or Pironkova in 2010 since Venus had final the last 3 years in a row?

Capriati in 2003 Australian Open against Weingartner?

I'd say Sprem over Venus is definitely up there. Venus had made 4 straight finals and had every reason to believe she would be in that final again. Umpire gave that match to Sprem so I'd say that was the most stunning, Serena losing in the 1st round was bound to happen sooner or later and who is REALLY surprised it happened on clay.

Kooyong
May 30th, 2012, 05:18 PM
Conchita beating Navratilova in a Wimbledon final should also be listed.
Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena taking bad/early losses will ALWAYS be news since they are considered amongst the greatest.

Surprisingly Martinez enjoyed a 4-1 H2H against Martina

source WTA website

Leo_DFP
May 30th, 2012, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet - but IMO the single biggest upset in women's Grand Slam tennis (and thus really in women's tennis) was Bartoli def. Henin in Wimbledon 2007 SF. Nobody saw that coming. Justine was in the form of her life and had a very big lead in that match.

However I do not know the previous generations as well so maybe someone can speak better to a more shocking upset over Evert, Nav, Graf or Seles? Certainly of the options listed in the poll, I think Bartoli def. Henin is more surprising. Ivanovic had a thumb injury and was vulnerable all summer (although still shocking given Coin's ranking and inexperience), Henin was clearly ill vs. Garbin (as she was vs. Kapros two years earlier in 1R), and Hingis needed a break after the FO fiasco.

Serena's is near the top of the list, but I think less so given her recent Slam performance. We've seen this now twice in a row where she wants it so bad that her body tightens up and she cannot perform - i.e. vs. Stosur and Makarova. It's not nearly what Loit def. Serena could have been at the 2003 AO, lol.

Leo_DFP
May 30th, 2012, 05:42 PM
does Sprem against Venus in 2004 count since Venus had made at least the QF at WImbledon every year from 1998-2003?

Or Pironkova in 2010 since Venus had final the last 3 years in a row?

Capriati in 2003 Australian Open against Weingartner?

Okay so I weaved through the thread and I would say all of the below are more surprising, good candidates:
- Horvath def. Navratilova, RG '83
- Bartoli def. Henin, W '07
- Sprem def. Venus, W '04 (made slightly less surprising by the fact that Venus was still coming back and had been struggling in GS play since W '03, but still huge)
- Weingartner def. Capriati AO '03 (also made slightly less surprising as Capriati was known to not be in the best physical shape or confidence going into this event, but still huge as she was world #3, defending champion, and one of Serena's very few challengers on tour at the time)

I'm going to try to think of a few more...but for me, in the moment it happened, nothing will be like that Bartoli win. That one may only be beat by Horvath.

irma
May 30th, 2012, 06:04 PM
Monica losing to Linda Ferrando at the us open 1990. Players like McNeil had other great wins in their career (her win over Steffi by example at the masters 1992 came way more out of the blue then wimbledon imho), but Ferrando hardly did anything outside of this match
And even though Monica was only 16 years old, she was still a big favourite for the title since she had only lost one match since march that year

MarkNL
May 30th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Yes!

Biggest shock ever :worship:

gmak
May 30th, 2012, 07:20 PM
Kathy Horvath over Martina RG 1983 DEFINITELY, this has to be the one

Ferrando over Seles (USO 1990)
Dokic over Hingis (Wimbly 1999)
Ruano Pascual over Hingis :o (Wimby 2001)

Graf was def. champion and #1 but she wasn't in her best form, and McNeil was a great serve&volleyer who always gave Graf trouble :shrug:

lupojohn
May 30th, 2012, 08:50 PM
How can that be possible? They met first round. :eek: That's weird.

They only seeded 16 players back then, so that's how they met in the 1st Round.

lupojohn
May 30th, 2012, 08:57 PM
Sesil Karatantcheva over Venus at the 2005 French Open R3.

Sammo
May 30th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Sesil Karatantcheva over Venus at the 2005 French Open R3.

Meh, Venus was crap back then. And then a month later she won Wimbledon but still.

goldenlox
May 30th, 2012, 09:20 PM
The key to ranking this upset is how you value 46-0 in 1st round matches.
This is Serena's worst surface, but she never lost a round 1 match at any major, ever.
It has to rank very high. Much more than Dokic over Hingis. Dokic was a top 5 player.
McNeil was a top 10 player who won 10 titles & was good on grass.

MakarovaFan
May 30th, 2012, 09:24 PM
IDK why everyone is bringing up the Henin-Bartoli Wimby 07 as the BIGGEST upset.....yes in Retrospect it was huge given the year Henin would go on to have, but when it happened it wasn't "that" big; Henin had missed the first part of 07 and going into Wimbledon had already had 3 losses(now going back considering the only had 4 the entire year then it becomes bigger) plus she hadn't won a non RG slam in almost 2 years!!!

To me the first Wimby Venus-Pironkova encounter was more a shocker; Venus was a 5-time champ, DEFENDING champ and Pironkova had never in 22 slams gotten past RD2:confused: I guess it's the opposite of Henin/Bartoli as in retrospect this match doens't look as huge a deal where at time it was huge yet Henin/Bartoli looks more shocking in retrospect despite still being quite to upset when it happened.
I mean really Venus Williams losing at ...Wimbledon....on Grass....to Tsvetana Pironkova....in the QF's....62 63...oh and on Centre Court!!

In The Zone
May 30th, 2012, 09:25 PM
IDK why everyone is bringing up the Henin-Bartoli Wimby 07 as the BIGGEST upset.....yes in Retrospect it was huge given the year Henin would go on to have, but when it happened it wasn't "that" big; Henin had missed the first part of 07 and going into Wimbledon had already had 3 losses(now going back considering the only had 4 the entire year then it becomes bigger) plus she hadn't won a non RG slam in almost 2 years!!!

To me the first Wimby Venus-Pironkova encounter was more a shocker; Venus was a 5-time champ, DEFENDING champ and Pironkova had never in 22 slams gotten past RD2:confused: I guess it's the opposite of Henin/Bartoli as in retrospect this match doens't look as huge a deal where at time it was huge yet Henin/Bartoli looks more shocking in retrospect despite still being quite to upset when it happened.
I mean really Venus Williams losing at ...Wimbledon....on Grass....to Tsvetana Pironkova....in the QF's....62 63...oh and on Centre Court!!

It wasn't on Centre Court, bitch!! :( ;)

The 2011 debacle was on Centre. :(

lupojohn
May 30th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Pironkova in 2010 since Venus had final the last 3 years in a row?

No. She beat Venus in Australia and then at Wimbledon in the same round by the exact same score.

lupojohn
May 30th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Meh, Venus was crap back then. And then a month later she won Wimbledon but still.

Come on. How do you lose to a 15 year old

Sammo
May 30th, 2012, 09:38 PM
Come on. How do you lose to a 15 year old

Cause the 15 year old was a prodigy back then? Plus she was on drugs and almost kicked Sharapova's ass the year before at Indian Wells as she had said she would do.

mistymore
May 30th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Not even close and it is incredibly stupid to even suggest so. Serena is not some super dominant clay courter, a player who hadnt gone past the quarters of an event in 9 years going out 1st round is far from the all time biggest upset.

LightWarrior
May 30th, 2012, 09:42 PM
I think it was. Sure there has been bigger GS 1st round upstets by tennis greats (Graf, Hingis) but Serena is such a big star, full of drama on and off the court. Plus she was so hyped to win RG this year.
I was struck by how beautiful and magestic (I already miss that green dress !)she looked yesterday, compared to Razzano who looked like her maid. It was a crime of lèse-majesté.
I think Serena put even more pressure on herself about this RG than the previous years. Serena can be so emotional at times that it's endearing.

mistymore
May 30th, 2012, 09:43 PM
Definitely the most shocking out of those listed. Hingis was emotionally wrecked following her French Open fiasco, Henin was sick, and Ana is mentally ill.

Graf at Wimbledon 94 was the biggest bookies favorite in the history of the event to win Wimbledon that year. Her going out in the 1st round to an unseeded player was 10 times bigger an upset than a 30 year old Serena losing 1st round at an event she never gets past the quarters of.

This thread is insulting to Serena and unfairly slams her. Sure it was a huge upset but there were others who suffered much worse ones.

MakarovaFan
May 31st, 2012, 12:23 AM
It wasn't on Centre Court, bitch!! :( ;)

The 2011 debacle was on Centre. :(
Eh still doesn't lessen the fact that Venus Williams lost at Wimbledon...on grass...as the defending and 5 time champ.....in the QFs....to Tsvetana Pironkova(whom had never gotten past Rd2 in a major)....62 63

Brad[le]y.
May 31st, 2012, 12:30 AM
Another One:

Ruano Def. Legend 6-4 6-2 Wimbly 01 R1

LEGEND WAS #1 so its a much bigger upset

That wasn't a total shock. Martina had tendinitis in her lower back going into Wimbledon.

Lyoshka80
May 31st, 2012, 12:43 AM
I definitely think Graf's loss to McNeil was the biggest first round upset. Graf won five Wimbledons by that time and was a three time defending champion and world #1. And yet she went out in the first round in straight sets. In Serena's case, she hasn't been successful at FO for a decade, was playing on her weakest surface. While unexpected, her loss is hardly the biggest shock.

18majors
May 31st, 2012, 01:02 AM
Yes, for now in May of 2012.

Matt-TennisFan24
May 31st, 2012, 01:53 AM
If by "ever in women's tennis history", you actually mean "in the past six years since I started watching tennis", then yes! :o

Well, I'm sorry!! I actually knew about other upsets, but I did this thread in a rush and the first matches that came to me where ones from the 2000s.

Yes, definitely Horvath win over Navratilova might have been the most stunning ever, it's a shame I havent seen any of that match on the Internet. Anyway, its kind of wrong to judge it as the "best" because it was Martina's only loss... nobody still knew at that point what would Martina do later in the year! yet judging by her start of 1983 and the end of 1982, she was in pretty good form. After this match is when Martina got more fit.

I like the discussion so far! Keep it going!

oh, and I've also included Graf's loss because even if it was against a top-20, it was a shock at the time, Steffi the Wimbledon Queen losing in the 1R? Quite surprising!