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View Full Version : I doubt if we ever see Serena Williams at Roland Garros again


TennisArt
May 29th, 2012, 10:08 PM
I think with this loss, we will not see Serena at the French Open anymore. I think she will just do a Clijsters and pretty much see clay as a write off in her career. If she does play again, I doubt if she does anymore warm-ups. This has played out almost exactly as the U.S Open(Does great in warm-up tournament. Pulls out with an "injury" the tournament before the slam, but still not able to do it). Seems she has completely lost her edge when comes to slams now. Everyone is human though.

pierce85
May 29th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Serena will never win RG again but don't delude yourself, she is too proud to stop trying. She will keep trying for a second RG title till she retires

dynamoRockstarr
May 29th, 2012, 10:16 PM
I don't think it's that serious.

GO李娜
May 29th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Serena probaly won't come back. The court is too slow.

Shvedbarilescu
May 29th, 2012, 10:25 PM
Serena will never win RG again but don't delude yourself, she is too proud to stop trying. She will keep trying for a second RG title till she retires

I agree with that. I don't think Serena will ever win RG again but it would be a real shame if Serena allowed herself to think the same thing. Her self belief and stubborness has contributed greatly to the success she has had in her career and it would be very regrettable if she let go of those qualities.

James Stewart, in the movie "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" said, the only causes worth fighting for are the lost causes. Right now RG is a lost cause for Serena but she should most definately go on fighting for it.

Giving up is for losers. And Serena is anything but a loser.

Rollo
May 29th, 2012, 10:25 PM
I disagree. She was within 2 points of winning. Based on past experience (exhibit A-Emilie Loit at the Australian) if she survives this type of match she can on to win the slam.

A second French is vital to her legacy for her to move on up the ladder of tennis immortals. If she's healthy I hope she gives it another shot.

GO李娜
May 29th, 2012, 10:27 PM
Problem is , she hasnt a won a match after saving mps or choking.
against Zvonareva,Bartoli,Razzano, she's doesn't have it in her anymore.

flareon
May 29th, 2012, 10:28 PM
Nah she loves Paris too much even has a second home there she will play again.

TennisArt
May 29th, 2012, 10:29 PM
I don't think it's that serious.

I do.. she put in A LOT of work for this one. I think she will see it as pointless. Her game is just not suited for this surface at all. She even pulled out of Rome to prepare for it. In hindsight, she probably should have continued that tournament even though she might have lost. I think that would have taken some pressure off from her being the favorite. Or she probably should not have played the tournament at all. When she pulled out of the match with Li, I knew that was the final kiss of death.

Kipling
May 29th, 2012, 10:40 PM
The courts on which she won tournaments leading up to RG were not similar to French Open conditions. Everyone looking to put a crown on her head wanted to look past that but there's a good reason she hasn't won the French Open in a decade.

Linguae^
May 29th, 2012, 11:39 PM
I still think that she retires at the end of the year.

Becool
May 29th, 2012, 11:44 PM
I still think that she retires at the end of the year.

she said she would, but i think she'll wait until 2013 to see how it goes, and then she retires.

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 12:01 AM
she said she would, but i think she'll wait until 2013 to see how it goes, and then she retires.

When?

As for the OP while I don't think Serena will win Roland Garros again, she will of course come back. As her career moves on I think it may just serve as a warm-up for Wimbledon, but I doubt she'd ever boycott it completely.

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 12:03 AM
I do.. she put in A LOT of work for this one. I think she will see it as pointless. Her game is just not suited for this surface at all. She even pulled out of Rome to prepare for it. In hindsight, she probably should have continued that tournament even though she might have lost. I think that would have taken some pressure off from her being the favorite. Or she probably should not have played the tournament at all. When she pulled out of the match with Li, I knew that was the final kiss of death.

See I think her biggest mistake was playing Charleston/Madrid rather than Stuttgart. In hindsight I'm sure she regrets not giving herself more red clay prep.

cowsonice
May 30th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Serena still played Rome :shrug:

Becool
May 30th, 2012, 12:11 AM
When?

As for the OP while I don't think Serena will win Roland Garros again, she will of course come back. As her career moves on I think it may just serve as a warm-up for Wimbledon, but I doubt she'd ever boycott it completely.

I don't remember for sure if it Venus or Serena who said that they would retire after London Olynpics (or the year).. But since she's actually doing fine, I think she will postpone to 2013

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Serena still played Rome :shrug:

She didn't finish the tournament though. I don't think four matches is enough for someone who struggles on red clay as much as Serena. Just my opinion.

ce
May 30th, 2012, 12:19 AM
I want her to win FO mixed, and get fuck of this crappy tournament and never come back.

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 12:19 AM
Wait.. she'll never win Roland Garros but the likes of Radwanska, Azarenka and Sharapova can???

I don't see any reason Serena won't come back.. if anything this might make her more motivated.

dsanders06
May 30th, 2012, 12:22 AM
Wait.. she'll never win Roland Garros but the likes of Radwanska, Azarenka and Sharapova can???

I don't see any reason Serena won't come back.. if anything this might make her more motivated.

Surely you've learnt by now that Serena being motivated to do something does not guarantee success? :shrug:

In fact, even her fans have in effect been saying she lost today because she was TOO motivated (and put too much pressure on herself).

Slutiana
May 30th, 2012, 12:25 AM
I still think that she retires at the end of the year.
The only way she's retiring at the end of the year is if she finishes it with no slam or OG after working harder than she has done for, really, 8 or so years. If not, expect to see her in Melbourne and beyond next year. :hug:

I don't remember for sure if it Venus or Serena who said that they would retire after London Olynpics (or the year).. But since she's actually doing fine, I think she will postpone to 2013
Neither have ever said that. :lol: Venus said she wants to win Fed Cup in 2013, and there's no way Venus would put so much effort into coming back if she's just going to quit a few months later, while Serena is constantly talking about playing for 4/5 more years.

Becool
May 30th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Surely you've learnt by now that Serena being motivated to do something does not guarantee success? :shrug:

In fact, even her fans have in effect been saying she lost today because she was TOO motivated (and put too much pressure on herself).

How wrong to be positive and hopeful to win a grand slam even if you have a difficulties with

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 12:29 AM
Surely you've learnt by now that Serena being motivated to do something does not guarantee success? :shrug:

In fact, even her fans have in effect been saying she lost today because she was TOO motivated (and put too much pressure on herself).

I don't think so.. she came in as the favorite for the tournament. I think Serena's biggest motivation comes from being the huge underdog and being discounted.

And a motivated Serena is probably the scariest opponent in WTA history. Ask Sharapova

Leo_DFP
May 30th, 2012, 12:29 AM
The courts on which she won tournaments leading up to RG were not similar to French Open conditions. Everyone looking to put a crown on her head wanted to look past that but there's a good reason she hasn't won the French Open in a decade.

This.

IMO, she shouldn't have pulled out of Rome. I think even losing to Li or Sharapova would have helped her in Paris. She would have benefited from more tough matches on a slow outdoor red clay - unlike the fast green/blue clay of Charleston and Madrid.

Serena had very big chances to win a second French Open in both 2010 and this year. Still no SFs since 2003. It would be a fairy tale if she did ever do it.

Slutiana
May 30th, 2012, 12:33 AM
The courts on which she won tournaments leading up to RG were not similar to French Open conditions. Everyone looking to put a crown on her head wanted to look past that but there's a good reason she hasn't won the French Open in a decade.
This.

IMO, she shouldn't have pulled out of Rome. I think even losing to Li or Sharapova would have helped her in Paris. She would have benefited from more tough matches on a slow outdoor red clay - unlike the fast green/blue clay of Charleston and Madrid.

Serena had very big chances to win a second French Open in both 2010 and this year. Still no SFs since 2003. It would be a fairy tale if she did ever do it.
Please.

It's impossible to tell how she would've done after this match, but her loss had nothing to do with the surface, the tournament or her preparation. It had everything to do with the fact that she fell apart up 5-1 in the TB for no reason, inexplicably spent the changeover between sets sobbing into her towel and then only bothered trying again when down 0-5 in the third. All this talk about her red clay preparation and all that crap is irrelevant considering she had the match right there.

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 12:34 AM
Please.

It's impossible to tell how she would've done after this match, but her loss had nothing to do with the surface, the tournament or her preparation. It had everything to do with the fact that she fell apart up 5-1 for no reason, inexplicably spent the changeover sobbing into her towel and then only bothered trying again when down 0-5 in the third.

THANK YOU. I'm tired of posters trying to find some greater meaning to this loss.

She just didn't play well. That's pretty much it.

Craig.
May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
As if one or two more matches on the red clay would've changed anything :haha: She lost today because she played like ass against an inspired opponent and was overall mentally unstable.

PetraReeMona
May 30th, 2012, 12:36 AM
I agree with that. I don't think Serena will ever win RG again but it would be a real shame if Serena allowed herself to think the same thing. Her self belief and stubborness has contributed greatly to the success she has had in her career and it would be very regrettable if she let go of those qualities.

James Stewart, in the movie "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" said, the only causes worth fighting for are the lost causes. Right now RG is a lost cause for Serena but she should most definately go on fighting for it.

Giving up is for losers. And Serena is anything but a loser.

As always :clap2:

faboozadoo15
May 30th, 2012, 01:01 AM
I think this is an overreaction. She'll be disappointed, but she'll be back.

This surface just doesn't work for her. She'd clearly need a soft draw and a lot of luck to ever win again.

JJ all the way
May 30th, 2012, 01:02 AM
This is not Indian Wells.....

Charlatan
May 30th, 2012, 01:06 AM
Because of the loss in the first round? :weirdo:
She will bounce back in Wimbledon! If she serves and play the way like she did on Madrid Blue Clay (which is basically a grass court in disguise, except the slippery surface), she can do some damage

pierce85
May 30th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Wait.. she'll never win Roland Garros but the likes of Radwanska, Azarenka and Sharapova can???

I don't see any reason Serena won't come back.. if anything this might make her more motivated.

Utter crap as always, next year Serena will be 31, will she be able to win RG? And her loss has everything to do with the surface, she just isn't as good on clay

starin
May 30th, 2012, 01:32 AM
Utter crap as always, next year Serena will be 31, will she be able to win RG? And her loss has everything to do with the surface, she just isn't as good on clay

And Na Li was a clay goddess before winning RG last year?
:rolleyes:

Stonerpova
May 30th, 2012, 01:37 AM
And Na Li was a clay goddess before winning RG last year?
:rolleyes:

Li doesn't have 9 years filled with many disappointing losses at this event. Serena has a total mental block here. The surface certainly neutralizes her game, but a lot of her problems here are mental.

pierce85
May 30th, 2012, 01:38 AM
And Na Li was a clay goddess before winning RG last year?
:rolleyes:

Na Li hadn't yet turned 30, Serena next year will be 31, almost no tennis player won a slam after 30 and as we witnessed in the last 4 slams Serena started unexpectedly playing some pretty erratic tennis, don't know why you think next year it will be better, she's not 25 you know :rolleyes:

Plus she's not that good on clay, her serve goes AWOL

TennisArt
May 30th, 2012, 01:39 AM
And this isnt the first time she has crumbled on a clay court. She had clay court loses to Jankovic, Kuznetsova and Stuosur over the past few years, after being in a winning position. It was quite sickening hearing all the commentators mentioning her as the favorite, non-stop when all anyone had to do is look at her history on clay and in particular this tournament to realize it would not have been realistic to put her even among the top 5 favorites. She was really set up for failure big time by all the unrealistic expectations coming from all corners.

I actually think Kim was super smart for skipping the whole clay season. At this point in her career why suffer all those long draining matches and all that hard work just to come up short on the big prize. I fully expect Serena to follow the same path. Clay is just really the most unpredictable surface and this tournament is notorious for random winners and one-slam wonders.

I think Sharapova is playing the best tennis at the moment but if we go by history, more than likely someone like Radwanska or Wozniacki will win the tournament. Radwanska already has the Miami good look omen on her side to boot ;)

Craig.
May 30th, 2012, 01:43 AM
And this isnt the first time she has crumbled on a clay court. She had clay court loses to Jankovic, Kuznetsova and Stuosur over the past few years, after being in a winning position. It was quite sickening hearing all the commentators mentioning her as the favorite, non-stop when all anyone had to do is look at her history on clay and in particular this tournament to realize it would not have been realistic to put her even among the top 5 favorites. She was really set up for failure big time by all the unrealistic expectations coming from all corners.

I actually think Kim was super smart for skipping the whole clay season. At this point in her career why suffer all those long draining matches and all that hard work just to come up short on the big prize. I fully expect Serena to follow the same path. Clay is just really the most unpredictable surface and this tournament is notorious for random winners and one-slam wonders.

I think Sharapova is playing the best tennis at the moment but if we go by history, more than likely someone like Radwanska or Wozniacki will win the tournament. Radwanska already has the Miami good look omen on her side to boot ;)

God help us all :hysteric:

starin
May 30th, 2012, 02:30 AM
Li doesn't have 9 years filled with many disappointing losses at this event. Serena has a total mental block here. The surface certainly neutralizes her game, but a lot of her problems here are mental.

3R 3R 4R 3R :shrug:

Na Li hadn't yet turned 30, Serena next year will be 31, almost no tennis player won a slam after 30 and as we witnessed in the last 4 slams Serena started unexpectedly playing some pretty erratic tennis, don't know why you think next year it will be better, she's not 25 you know :rolleyes:

Plus she's not that good on clay, her serve goes AWOL

It was even worse she was 29 and had never even been to the QF at RG, had never won a clay court title, had an overall bad record on clay with tons of bad losses to mid ranked clay court scrubs. I don't think she had even made a final in a clay court tournament before RG that year.

faboozadoo15
May 30th, 2012, 02:36 AM
3R 3R 4R 3R :shrug:



It was even worse she was 29 and had never even been to the QF at RG, had never won a clay court title, had an overall bad record on clay with tons of bad losses to mid ranked clay court scrubs. I don't think she had even made a final in a clay court tournament before RG that year.

But Li Na hadn't played her best tennis yet. She really brought it in that tourament, and it's reasonable to say that clay is a good surface for her.

Serena hasn't been past the QF in 10 years and hasn't won a red clay title in 10 years. I'm no fortune teller, but it's safe to say that her peak on clay is long behind her.

Doully
May 30th, 2012, 02:37 AM
So Li Na's sensational win at RG last year with arguably the toughest slam draw of '11 is being shot down because...?

starin
May 30th, 2012, 02:42 AM
But Li Na hadn't played her best tennis yet. She really brought it in that tourament, and it's reasonable to say that clay is a good surface for her.

Serena hasn't been past the QF in 10 years and hasn't won a red clay title in 10 years. I'm no fortune teller, but it's safe to say that her peak on clay is long behind her.

And the proof that her best tennis would come on clay came from? And until last year it was not reasonable to say clay was a good surface for her. She had constant problems with pusher and players who used heavy spin and she had never shown the consistency to last 7 matches on clay. Until Serena retires, completely falls apart or someone dominant emerges on the tour or on clay Serena has just as much chance as many of the other girls on tour. Li's win was proof about how wide open RG is. Any player who can catch fire for two weeks can snatch RG or if no one does a pusher will win by default.

tennisrules
May 30th, 2012, 02:44 AM
Serena will be back, come on now. She lives for the Slams, she'll be at RG next year barring a major injury. She doesn't want her last match at RG to be a 1st-round loss.

pov
May 30th, 2012, 02:48 AM
One stunning loss and everyone seems to forget that Williams was 17-0 on clay before today. IMO she's still the best active player on all surfaces.

JCTennisFan
May 30th, 2012, 04:53 AM
Her loss was pretty gut wrenching to watch, unless one completely hates Serena. I think hopefully if anything it might give her a little bit better of a perspective on things. She certaintly has been playing alot more tournaments since the past summer so that is a good sign... it shows she is really trying and is dedicated.

I cant believe the effort wont pay off for her.... she is still afterall a huge potential threat at Wimbledon. Up until this loss her ground game had been looking alot more potent than, say W 2010. So I still have belief that she will win potentially one or more slams before it is all said and done for her.

Shvedbarilescu
May 30th, 2012, 05:15 AM
Wait.. she'll never win Roland Garros but the likes of Radwanska, Azarenka and Sharapova can???

I don't see any reason Serena won't come back.. if anything this might make her more motivated.

You've always been one of the posters I've most admired on this forum but it is a shame to see lately you have begun to live in the past.

Of course decent players aged 22,23 and 25 have vastly more opportunities to win RG, and for that matter any other Grand Slam, than does a play who is aged 30. At best Serena has a two year window of opportunity left to continue winning Slams. That is at best. Players do get older and to deny the effects aging has on a player is to refuse reality.

Serena is the greatest player of her generation. But her generation is out of time. Tennis like everything else in life moves on.

I know you have little regard for the generation of players in their early 20s. If that is how you feel I don't need to try to change your mind on them. I'm certainly not going to suggest this generation is anything close to as good a generation as the one that produced the Williams sisters, Henin, Clijsters, Hingis etc. But the thing is, this current generation's destiny is not to compete with the Williams' generation but between themselves.

There comes a time when all great athletes stop being able to do what they were able to do in the past. In tennis the cutoff point has always been around the age of the 30. Pretty much every player of Serena's generation is now retired or in decline. That's what happens.

Serena herself is exceptional. She is one of the greatest athletes in any sport ever. But she is not immune to the aging process and very significantly, like her sister, she is flesh and blood, and vunerable to injuries and illnesses like everyone else. And like everyone else these get more difficult to cope with as one gets older. Neither Williams sister is in the shape they were 10 years ago.

I am not amongst those who are saying the Williams sisters are finished, they should retire. No one should retire until they no longer wish to compete. I think it is extremely admirable and good for the game that both Williams sisters chose to continue to compete. The fact that it is only going to get more difficult for them makes it that much more admirable that they carry on. It is important for the continuity of the sport that the generations do pass the torch to those that follow them. Futhermore there determination to keep playing as conditions get tougher and tougher for them is what made them champions in the 1st place. The Williams sisters very much to their credit are not quitters. I believe in them to give the best they can to this sport until they absolutely are no longer able to compete at a professional level. But no matter how great you are the one opponent nobody beats forever is time.

Look at it this way. Suppose you have a 25 year old tennis player and a 17 year old tennis player. Suppose the 25 year old has more ability than the 17 year tennis player. That 25 year old will inevitably kick the shit out of the 17 year old and will continue to do so for several years. But at some point, without any question the tables will turn. This might happen when the 17 year old is 22 and the 25 year old is 30 or it might even take a year or two longer maybe even longer still. But at some point there is absolutely no question in the world the younger player will prevail over the older one. That in a nutshell is sports and that in a nutshell is life itself.

hardball
May 30th, 2012, 06:06 AM
oh come on. she'll be back next year. there is a lot of mileage left in her and she knows it. i am less sure about venus.

StephenUK
May 30th, 2012, 07:16 AM
Let's see what happens to her in the next 12 months but I think it would be ridiculous not to return just because of this one match. Serena's record of never losing in a first round in a grand slam was amazing but it's gone now, this has just made her more human.

I don't think this defeat was even a specifically Roland Garros defeat anyway, it was clearly a mental meltdown. Serena was possessed by the spirit of Jana Novotna at her worst yesterday, the collapse from 5-1 in the tiebreak to 5-0 in the final set was shocking and the crying in that final game as she could not win any of the break points says it all. Serena just forgot how to play, to think out there, she panicked. I think she has to go back to Roland Garros next year to face out these demons, because otherwise these jitters will stalk her at every grand slam and Serenovotna will appear to haunt her again and again.

Knizzle
May 30th, 2012, 07:19 AM
That's not Serena's style at all. She's a competitor, she will never stop wanting or believing she can win at RG again.

Smith Saybrook
May 30th, 2012, 07:37 AM
If she plays in 2013, and is healthy she's not skipping RG. If she's nursing an injury or there is any question of her health, than yes I can see her choosing to skip the clay season and focus on Wimbledon.

If shes healthy she'll be back.

Right now there's no one good enough on clay to say Serena would never win RG again. Is it the least likely slam for her to win? Of course. But for nearly every top woman right now RG is the hardest slam for them to win.

Who of the contenders can claim clay is the surface where they play their best? While we've looked Serena in the past in Melbourne, every is salivating at the thought of Kvitty at Wimbledon, they get wet for Clijsters in NY, there's no one in this generation and really since Justine retired, that really look forward to playing on clay, and have developed a great enough clay court game to be a heavy favorite in Paris.

Sure Stosur may have the game for it but she doesn't qualify yet.

As long as there's no dominant clay player, Serena has a good a chance as any.

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 08:10 AM
You've always been one of the posters I've most admired on this forum but it is a shame to see lately you have begun to live in the past.

Of course decent players aged 22,23 and 25 have vastly more opportunities to win RG, and for that matter any other Grand Slam, than does a play who is aged 30. At best Serena has a two year window of opportunity left to continue winning Slams. That is at best. Players do get older and to deny the effects aging has on a player is to refuse reality.

Serena is the greatest player of her generation. But her generation is out of time. Tennis like everything else in life moves on.

I know you have little regard for the generation of players in their early 20s. If that is how you feel I don't need to try to change your mind on them. I'm certainly not going to suggest this generation is anything close to as good a generation as the one that produced the Williams sisters, Henin, Clijsters, Hingis etc. But the thing is, this current generation's destiny is not to compete with the Williams' generation but between themselves.

There comes a time when all great athletes stop being able to do what they were able to do in the past. In tennis the cutoff point has always been around the age of the 30. Pretty much every player of Serena's generation is now retired or in decline. That's what happens.

Serena herself is exceptional. She is one of the greatest athletes in any sport ever. But she is not immune to the aging process and very significantly, like her sister, she is flesh and blood, and vunerable to injuries and illnesses like everyone else. And like everyone else these get more difficult to cope with as one gets older. Neither Williams sister is in the shape they were 10 years ago.

I am not amongst those who are saying the Williams sisters are finished, they should retire. No one should retire until they no longer wish to compete. I think it is extremely admirable and good for the game that both Williams sisters chose to continue to compete. The fact that it is only going to get more difficult for them makes it that much more admirable that they carry on. It is important for the continuity of the sport that the generations do pass the torch to those that follow them. Futhermore there determination to keep playing as conditions get tougher and tougher for them is what made them champions in the 1st place. The Williams sisters very much to their credit are not quitters. I believe in them to give the best they can to this sport until they absolutely are no longer able to compete at a professional level. But no matter how great you are the one opponent nobody beats forever is time.

Look at it this way. Suppose you have a 25 year old tennis player and a 17 year old tennis player. Suppose the 25 year old has more ability than the 17 year tennis player. That 25 year old will inevitably kick the shit out of the 17 year old and will continue to do so for several years. But at some point, without any question the tables will turn. This might happen when the 17 year old is 22 and the 25 year old is 30 or it might even take a year or two longer maybe even longer still. But at some point there is absolutely no question in the world the younger player will prevail over the older one. That in a nutshell is sports and that in a nutshell is life itself.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with the premise.

However... this is Serena Williams. And this current generation, you're right, I don't see anything stellar yet.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe Serena Williams is not the best active player on tour? Of course age will hinder her and prevent her from being the dominant force she was but even a diminished Serena is still the heavy favorite if playing well against anyone on tour.

Serena also has much less mileage on her body than the average tennis player her age so just going by age will not work. It all depends on her health and if Serena is healthy, I like her chances at Roland Garros much more than Aga Radwanska, Vika Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.. all of whom can struggle immensely on clay at times.

madmax
May 30th, 2012, 08:18 AM
I understand what you are saying and I agree with the premise.

However... this is Serena Williams. And this current generation, you're right, I don't see anything stellar yet.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe Serena Williams is not the best active player on tour? Of course age will hinder her and prevent her from being the dominant force she was but even a diminished Serena is still the heavy favorite if playing well against anyone on tour.

Serena also has much less mileage on her body than the average tennis player her age so just going by age will not work. It all depends on her health and if Serena is healthy, I like her chances at Roland Garros much more than Aga Radwanska, Vika Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.. all of whom can struggle immensely on clay at times.

Sharapova has a 22-1 combined record on european red clay over the past two years...if she is not the biggest threat on clay, then no one really deserves to be ranked over her either. And don't give that bull about "unbeatable" Serena, will ya. When was the last time she won a red clay event? Yeah, I thought so:wavey:

SELVEN
May 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
Sad feeling.:awww:

stromatolite
May 30th, 2012, 08:31 AM
Serena could have won this title this year and she knows it. She put too much pressure on herself yesterday and paid the price, but if she chooses to come back she should still be in the running for a few years at least. I'm not sure she'll win it but she has a chance for sure, and I really can't see someone like Serena admitting defeat after a setback like this. She'll be back.

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 08:32 AM
Sharapova has a 22-1 combined record on european red clay over the past two years...if she is not the biggest threat on clay, then no one really deserves to be ranked over her either. And don't give that bull about "unbeatable" Serena, will ya. When was the last time she won a red clay event? Yeah, I thought so:wavey:

And she had to wait until the clay competition was at an all-time low... when did she win her first red-clay event?
Was it 2010?

And Serena continues to have a dominant H2H over Sharapova :shrug: I don't think many see her as a challenge if they had to face each other on any surface.

Now if you talked about Azarenka, I'd be a lot more convinced.

madmax
May 30th, 2012, 08:38 AM
And she had to wait until the clay competition was at an all-time low... when did she win her first red-clay event?
Was it 2010?

And Serena continues to have a dominant H2H over Sharapova :shrug: I don't think many see her as a challenge if they had to face each other on any surface.

Now if you talked about Azarenka, I'd be a lot more convinced.

LMAO at "she had to wait for weak competition"...
So now you are basically admitting that all the tour, including your precious Serena, sucks on red dirt. And Maria worked hard to improve her fitness on grinders surface and learning how to slide into her shots. And bringing up H2H matter is completely irrelevant here, since Maria never played Serena on red clay either:wavey:

doomsday
May 30th, 2012, 09:13 AM
And she had to wait until the clay competition was at an all-time low... when did she win her first red-clay event?
Was it 2010?

And Serena continues to have a dominant H2H over Sharapova :shrug: I don't think many see her as a challenge if they had to face each other on any surface.

Now if you talked about Azarenka, I'd be a lot more convinced.

What the hell? Is this the same person who was praising Clijsters for winning so many majors in that very same weak era, give me a break.
And yeah completely agree with madmax the H2H thing is irrelevant if Razzano can take out Serena on red clay, Sharapova definitely can but yeah let's bring the H2H if that makes you feel better it's fine but I'm not sure Serena cares about that ATM, a first round loss is never easy to take even less against a scrub like Razzano.

AcesHigh
May 30th, 2012, 09:46 AM
LMAO at "she had to wait for weak competition"...
So now you are basically admitting that all the tour, including your precious Serena, sucks on red dirt. And Maria worked hard to improve her fitness on grinders surface and learning how to slide into her shots. And bringing up H2H matter is completely irrelevant here, since Maria never played Serena on red clay either:wavey:

Yes, the tour is not good on red clay.
And H2H is not irrelevant.. it just shows that Serena is a much better player on all surfaces than Maria Sharapova.
She demolishes her almost every time.. you actually think it would be much different on red clay? :lol:

What the hell? Is this the same person who was praising Clijsters for winning so many majors in that very same weak era, give me a break.
And yeah completely agree with madmax the H2H thing is irrelevant if Razzano can take out Serena on red clay, Sharapova definitely can but yeah let's bring the H2H if that makes you feel better it's fine but I'm not sure Serena cares about that ATM, a first round loss is never easy to take even less against a scrub like Razzano.

Not sure how you are comparing winning slams to winning Rome.

And for all this hype about Sharapova, when she wins another slam, let's talk. Until then, Serena has won 4 slams since Sharapova's last victory.
All her European clay victories mean nothing until she's holding up the trophy in a week and a half

madmax
May 30th, 2012, 10:04 AM
Yes, the tour is not good on red clay.
And H2H is not irrelevant.. it just shows that Serena is a much better player on all surfaces than Maria Sharapova.
She demolishes her almost every time.. you actually think it would be much different on red clay? :lol:

so are you ready to admit that Sharapova is a better player than Venus too then?:devil: You seem to be judging players legacies according to their H2H records, so since Maria has a winning record over elderly Williams, this reasoning should be applied consistently, no? And how about the unanimous men's GOAT Federer then, who has losing H2H to Nadull and even Murray...is he much worse player than them too?

longtin23
May 30th, 2012, 10:44 AM
I am actually surprised she won one in 2002...

StoneRose
May 30th, 2012, 11:57 AM
She'll be furious with herself right now as she had a fair chance to win it and clearly folded under pressure. But if she's healthy she'll be back next year.

Shvedbarilescu
May 30th, 2012, 02:36 PM
I understand what you are saying and I agree with the premise.

However... this is Serena Williams. And this current generation, you're right, I don't see anything stellar yet.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe Serena Williams is not the best active player on tour? Of course age will hinder her and prevent her from being the dominant force she was but even a diminished Serena is still the heavy favorite if playing well against anyone on tour.

Serena also has much less mileage on her body than the average tennis player her age so just going by age will not work. It all depends on her health and if Serena is healthy, I like her chances at Roland Garros much more than Aga Radwanska, Vika Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.. all of whom can struggle immensely on clay at times.

It is debatable. Her results in the last four slams don't suggest she is. But even if one looks at events when she has been outstanding, and there have over the last year been 3 or 4, one still has to ask how much longer will she even be able to put together 3 or 4 great tournaments a year. The thing about ability diminishing is it doesn't stop diminishing once it reaching a certain point, it keeps diminishing year on year. A year from now Serena won't be as good as she is now. In two years time she won't be as good as will be in one year's time. To top all that off, she hasn't been able to win a Slam in the last year and has missed the quarterfinals in 3 of the last 4 slams she has played.

Quite simply, I don't think the time has come to rule out Serena ever winning another Slam but I do think the time we can regard her a the favourite for every Slam she plays in is a thing of the past.

I have to say the thing that disturbs me most about your recent posts is your use of the term "is" as if "is" is a never changing constant. "Is" is always changing. And when you say Serena "is" better than Radwanska or Sharapova on clay or any other surface I have to say, maybe so, but for how long?

WowWow
May 30th, 2012, 02:39 PM
If winners were quitters the way people here think they are, they wouldn't have won anything.

duhcity
May 30th, 2012, 02:40 PM
Sharapova has a 22-1 combined record on european red clay over the past two years...if she is not the biggest threat on clay, then no one really deserves to be ranked over her either. And don't give that bull about "unbeatable" Serena, will ya. When was the last time she won a red clay event? Yeah, I thought so:wavey:

The hell are you smoking? I can name Madrid 2011 and FO 2011 off my head, that's already two losses.
Try not to pull things out your ass.

StoneRose
May 30th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Can you honestly tell me that you believe Serena Williams is not the best active player on tour?
The strength of a player is determined by many factors , mental fortitude being one of the most important. Serena's failure to bring it at the biggest events lately makes it at least possible to believe she's not the best active player on tour right now. Maybe she can be in the near future but she 'll have to deal with the tension better.Potential <> actual strength.

Gestalt222
May 30th, 2012, 04:18 PM
:lol:People are deluding themselves if they think Serena is not the best active player on tour right now. Sure she has had meltdowns and mental blocks, but when she's on, she's unstoppable, as proven by her recent lead up tournaments to the French. Will she have the mental fortitude to rack up slams like she used to? Who knows, probably not, but she's still been the best active player lately, and at her current best, is still the best. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? It's mental, that's it, nothing left to analyze. Sharapova had that mental block and is getting over it, Serena can too and can win a few more slams. Now go on and support your mental midget current faves that have trouble closing out matches at their "prime". :lol:

gbenga
Jun 8th, 2013, 04:41 PM
:armed::armed::armed::armed::armed::armed::armed:

http://webmaths.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/stallone.jpg