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Nicolás89
Apr 7th, 2012, 09:15 PM
I wanted to know how xenophobia is perceived in your home countries because in my country it is a severe problem in our society.

Personally I've traveled a lot & I've found some places were bigotry & nationalism are pretty much fixed in society like Israel, Peru, Spain (please notice I don't want to steriotype but that's how I experienced those places) but I've also found places that are much tolerable like Colombia & Brazil, they're nice to everyone.

I'm not proud to say though, that in Chile my homecountry, we are xenophobes by birth, our bigotry is famous for people from Peru, Bolivia, Argentina & Spain who happen to come here a lot.

ptkten
Apr 7th, 2012, 09:20 PM
Agreed on Colombia, I'm sure there are issues but it seemed like everyone from all cultures and races got along.

As for the U.S., I think xenophobia is a worse problem than a lot of people who live in the U.S. think and it's less of a problem than people in other countries think, if that makes sense. I think Americans tend to try to ignore any problems and think we've moved past it which we clearly haven't. However, compared to most other European countries, I actually think the U.S. is more tolerant based on my experiences.

Novichok
Apr 7th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Honestly I haven't really noticed much xenophobia here. I sometimes hear complaints about the "Iranian" convenience store owners and about illegal immigration (which was pretty bad back during the immigration protests in 2006).

C. Drone
Apr 8th, 2012, 12:45 PM
finally one thing Hungary is really good :cheer:

Lord Choc Ice
Apr 8th, 2012, 01:05 PM
NZ people sometimes complain about the amount of Chinese fish and chip shop and dairy (convenience store) owners, but then NZ is fish and chips mad and go to the stores for smokes, so they're kind hypocritical :p.

The only thing I'd be kind of Xenophobic about would be Muslims trying to force Sharia law on the country, but apart from that I'm not particularly Xenophobic :oh:.

Sammo
Apr 8th, 2012, 02:19 PM
In Spain South Americans are hated so much. Our socialist president (2004-2011) offered them jobs and now Spain is full of South Americans who steal our jobs :lol::sobbing: Like shitty doctors who know nothing :hysteric: And in return for that those South Americans who were given the Spanish nationality then voted for him to be re-elected :facepalm:

Oh well I don't hate South Americans it would be pathetic but this situation is really a shame. Also the violence in Spanish streets has risen because now it's something very usual to find these

http://www.americasalsa.net/images/fama_fortuna_junio/latin-kings-1.jpg

Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

King Halep
Apr 8th, 2012, 02:23 PM
best fish and chip and kebab shop near me is run by Chinese

KournikovaFan91
Apr 8th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

:rolleyes:

The first ever Spanish prime minister to actually respect South American nations and their independence and your bashing him, I guess you'd rather colonialists like Aznar (who encourages coups against democratically elected governments) and whatever right-winger is in power now. :o

In Ireland there is definatly xenophobia from certain stupid pieces of shit who think Polish and Eastern Europeans some how "took" their jobs. More people hate the Nigerians but I guess that is racism, not Xenophobia.

I often wonder what it is like to be stupid enough to be a xenophobe or a racist. :shrug:

Sammo
Apr 8th, 2012, 03:24 PM
There's a difference between respecting South Americans and bringing tons of them just to get re-elected :hysteric: And no I want something in the middle, I want UPyD which is a political party that is something similar to USA's Democrats. And everybody bashes him now by the way, he left the country in a shitty state, the way he and his force of dumbos managed the Crisis was laughable, now everyone hates him :lol:

Stamp Paid
Apr 8th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Honestly I haven't really noticed much xenophobia here. I sometimes hear complaints about the "Iranian" convenience store owners and about illegal immigration (which was pretty bad back during the immigration protests in 2006).Even with Mexican Americans and Arab Americans?

Just Do It
Apr 8th, 2012, 04:33 PM
It depends. People usually love foreigners in Serbia, and they are thrilled when they meet some ( because they are a rare sight here ) while Albanian bakeries are being stoned like every month.

Expat
Apr 8th, 2012, 04:44 PM
Of all the countries I have lived in America is the least. Only probably Canada is less but I haven't lived there.

Nicolás89
Apr 8th, 2012, 06:43 PM
Sammo :facepalm: He probably lives in a bubble & doesn't know that Spaniard migration to Chile has been going up like 100% in the last couple of years & that they are probably taking many chileans their jobs but I'm not going around saying they fucked this country up, even with that terrible accent & accept & welcome them in my country.

PS: I'm sure the reason many south americans migrate to Spain is because they have the nationality, I'm chilean, born & raised here, my grandmother is Spaniard so I could very well request the Spaniard nationality, I don't think I will though, my mom didn't.

PhilePhile
Apr 8th, 2012, 06:52 PM
China is a racist society in itself, you know, they don't even like each other, you know let alone ... Blacks...

Whites that come here, are treated like king ... if you earned it...

I'am saying not all "Chinese" are like that.. I'am saying a great deal from the mainland are...

9bgao5Uc8Ww



Everybody isn't equal...

If you are an asian ... who grew up in America or ... you know, third generation, ...in Britain or something like that ... it's not going to help you[in China]...

71wtvZ_z3ZI

Tripp
Apr 8th, 2012, 07:52 PM
I have a friend who lives in Chile because she moved there with her chilean husband, and she's told me she has ended up crying several times because of how bad people treat her when they hear she has an argentinian accent. And she's blonde an very easy on the eye, so she's probably getting the soft treatment.

I'm not sure about Argentina. Yeah, you have your xenophobes idiots like everywhere else in the world, but generally I'd say this is a very open society regarding people from other countries. People who get discriminated against are often victims of it because of their social background and economical status, and not really their nationality. I've lived in several places of Argentina and there are tons of people from all over South America saying how comfortable they feel here, specially in Buenos Aires.

Nicolás89
Apr 8th, 2012, 08:05 PM
I have a friend who lives in Chile because she moved there with her chilean husband, and she's told me she has ended up crying several times because of how bad people treat her when they hear she has an argentinian accent. And she's blonde an very easy on the eye, so she's probably getting the soft treatment.

I'm not sure about Argentina. Yeah, you have your xenophobes idiots like everywhere else in the world, but generally I'd say this is a very open society regarding people from other countries. People who get discriminated against are often victims of it because of their social background and economical status, and not really their nationality. I've lived in several places of Argentina and there are tons of people from all over South America saying how comfortable they feel here, specially in Buenos Aires.

Yep, Chileans for you. :(

Mixal
Apr 8th, 2012, 09:01 PM
What's the beef between Chile and other SA countries?

Londoner
Apr 8th, 2012, 09:45 PM
In Spain South Americans are hated so much. Our socialist president (2004-2011) offered them jobs and now Spain is full of South Americans who steal our jobs :lol::sobbing: Like shitty doctors who know nothing :hysteric: And in return for that those South Americans who were given the Spanish nationality then voted for him to be re-elected :facepalm:

Oh well I don't hate South Americans it would be pathetic but this situation is really a shame. Also the violence in Spanish streets has risen because now it's something very usual to find these

http://www.americasalsa.net/images/fama_fortuna_junio/latin-kings-1.jpg

Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

Tony Blair did the same in England - mass immigration (albeit not from South America) in the name of multi cuturalism to get votes from those very people. It was all dressed up as political correctness. We now have the biggest mess which I doubt can ever be sorted out.

Londoner
Apr 8th, 2012, 09:49 PM
My experience in America is your ok if you're white, but if you're South American or black then you will be treated differently. May not be xenophobia but plain old racism. A friend of mine from Puerto RIco who lives in NYC has been blatantly discriminated against on a regular basis in his workplace.

wayitis
Apr 8th, 2012, 10:25 PM
Unlike France and England, countries like Spain and Italy hadn't experienced mass immigrations until very recently and their regional population were still culturally homogenous while internal migrations fairly stable. Spain had always had lower economic indexes than its northern neighbours and required heavy investments form the European Community to bring it up to par, and that, allied to the fact that it was a rather closed dictatorship until the 70's, never made it especially attractive to immigrants from the 3rd WOrld country, in spite of its geographic position... Consequently, generations of Spaniards and Italians never had to deal with the immigration experience the way the French and English have had, and now that they are going through this process, there is an ugly backlash from certain parts of the society much the way immigrants had to suffer initially in France, England and Germany... It is easier to be discriminated against nowadays in Spain and Italy if you are an impoverished immigrant, than north of the border, as there is a still alive and working generation that remembers and craves for the older days when these newly arrived people were not there... Not saying by any means that there is not racism or xenophobia in the rest of Europe, or that the whole Italian or Spanish societies are thriving on those, but one can find today more aggressivity against non-white people in the streets and sports fields of Madrid, Barcelona, Rome and Milan than elsewhere in the continent... that is a natural human reaction against a "non-family" member coming to occupy your territory and if Eastern Europe ever becomes an economic powerhouse as to attract people from other continents, immigrants will feel a similar backlash too at first...

Sammo
Apr 8th, 2012, 10:28 PM
Sammo :facepalm: He probably lives in a bubble & doesn't know that Spaniard migration to Chile has been going up like 100% in the last couple of years & that they are probably taking many chileans their jobs but I'm not going around saying they fucked this country up, even with that terrible accent & accept & welcome them in my country.

PS: I'm sure the reason many south americans migrate to Spain is because they have the nationality, I'm chilean, born & raised here, my grandmother is Spaniard so I could very well request the Spaniard nationality, I don't think I will though, my mom didn't.

At least they're good professionals because

Spanish Universities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chilean Universities

And I doubt that those Spaniards have risen the criminality index of your country, or have they?

PhilePhile
Apr 8th, 2012, 10:43 PM
What's the beef between Chile and other SA countries?

Quite a bit between these two:

Argentina–Chile relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina%E2%80%93Chile_relations) - Wikipedia

WowWow
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:12 PM
In Spain South Americans are hated so much. Our socialist president (2004-2011) offered them jobs and now Spain is full of South Americans who steal our jobs :lol::sobbing: Like shitty doctors who know nothing :hysteric: And in return for that those South Americans who were given the Spanish nationality then voted for him to be re-elected :facepalm:

Oh well I don't hate South Americans it would be pathetic but this situation is really a shame. Also the violence in Spanish streets has risen because now it's something very usual to find these



Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

I haven't heard a single Spaniard complain about any South American nation, but I heard many bitching about Romanians and not wanting their kids to go to same school with Romanian kids (who btw are Spanish already).
Also, I was surprised how much Valencia region is forcing their local patriotism with Valencian and whatnot. They may be heading for secession in the near future.

Mynarco
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:12 PM
First of all, maybe it's just me but I think Chinese are quite xenophobic, though depending on different circumstances. This can be seen in the language - in Chinese, Gwei (aka Ghost) represents western people. Even though the derogative sense of this word has, somehow, gradually faded away (especially in Cantonese, not sure about in other dialects), there are some people still using this word in its derogatory sense. And a majority of Chinese still have the kneejerk defensive mindsets when some westerners attempt to criticise one bit about any Chinese matters (due to the history, of course), because in Chinese culture, it's quite impolite for foreigners to intervene other's own personal business.

However - for western people, especially for those who are white, tall, blond, they will be quite privileged in China because they fit in the stereotypes of wealthy westerners. Some young Chinese women are quite open themselves to the white men (maybe they want to get a good foreign passport, or they simply like white men).

And in Hong Kong, due to our unique ex-british colony history, we somehow internalise this xenophobic mind to fellow Chinese who are not from Hong Kong (but mainly to those who are leeching our benefits). Indeed, the cultural differences between Hongkongers and Mainlanders are quite vast, and there are conflicts about this on newspapers every other day. Apart from that, we quite welcome foreigners (I think)

debopero
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:32 PM
My experience in America is your ok if you're white, but if you're South American or black then you will be treated differently. May not be xenophobia but plain old racism. A friend of mine from Puerto RIco who lives in NYC has been blatantly discriminated against on a regular basis in his workplace.

There is some truth to that now. Of course, Italian, Irish, German, and Eastern European immigrants were discriminated against for quite some time in the early history of the U.S.

Hispanic immigrants, where I am from, are often treated with resentment unfortunately.

Monica_Rules
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:35 PM
I think Britain is in a weird place. On the whole I think we are quite accepting pof other nations BUT there is the whole taking the mic out of the French and Germans about the war and stuff.

On another side there is a growing problem with peoples perception of immigration in this country, whipped up by the Daily Mail, which in turn has made people dislike asians in particular which has also been made worse by everything thats happened post 9/11. Its a comples issue but is it xenophobia or is it racism?

Sammo
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:37 PM
I haven't heard a single Spaniard complain about any South American nation, but I heard many bitching about Romanians and not wanting their kids to go to same school with Romanian kids (who btw are Spanish already).
Also, I was surprised how much Valencia region is forcing their local patriotism with Valencian and whatnot. They may be heading for secession in the near future.

No chance, all these Valencian patriotism is just BS. Its language is just a dialect of Catalonian. The one who is serious about secession and such things is Catalonia (well and the Basque Country), but I don't think they'll ever separate from Spain, I mean they've been moaning for centuries. But Catalonian is something very serious over there, its Catalonia's first language, I mean in school they teach in Catalonian all the time, they speak in Catalonian with each other, I even went to Barcelona and the indications were like this:

AEROPORT (Catalonian)
Airport (English)
Aeropuerto (Spanish)


:hysteric:

WowWow
Apr 8th, 2012, 11:45 PM
No chance, all these Valencian patriotism is just BS. Its language is just a dialect of Catalonian. The one who is serious about secession and such things is Catalonia (well and the Basque Country), but I don't think they'll ever separate from Spain, I mean they've been moaning for centuries. But Catalonian is something very serious over there, its Catalonia's first language, I mean in school they teach in Catalonian all the time, they speak in Catalonian with each other, I even went to Barcelona and the indications were like this:

AEROPORT (Catalonian)
Airport (English)
Aeropuerto (Spanish)


:hysteric:

Yes, but Valencian is now forced into schools ( I don't think that was the case before) and it's a trend to talk in Valenciano if you support the idea. That was kinda new thing, cause sure Catalonia and Basque have been on abut it forever, but not this region. My impression was that liberal leaning people tend to speak in Spanish and the more conservative ones are speaking Valencian. I could be wrong, though. I can't really tell the difference between the two, but then my Spanish is not good enough anyway. Catalonian, on the other hand is noticeably different.

Sammo
Apr 9th, 2012, 12:06 AM
Yes, but Valencian is now forced into schools ( I don't think that was the case before) and it's a trend to talk in Valenciano if you support the idea. That was kinda new thing, cause sure Catalonia and Basque have been on abut it forever, but not this region. My impression was that liberal leaning people tend to speak in Spanish and the more conservative ones are speaking Valencian. I could be wrong, though. I can't really tell the difference between the two, but then my Spanish is not good enough anyway. Catalonian, on the other hand is noticeably different.

Hmmm I'm not sure what to say about that... I think it would be the opposite, until Franco died Catalonians were forced to speak Spanish, they could only speak Catalonian in their homes, so I guess the same happened with Valencian... I've never been especially interested in these kind of things honestly :sobbing: I can't tell the difference between Valencian and Catalonian, in fact in Valencia's bylaw the words matched in a 98% with Catalonian so no big deal about Valencian as I said, they're complaining all the time and claiming that Valencian is a language but just no way :lol:

Milito22
Apr 9th, 2012, 12:12 AM
I'm not sure about Argentina. Yeah, you have your xenophobes idiots like everywhere else in the world, but generally I'd say this is a very open society regarding people from other countries. People who get discriminated against are often victims of it because of their social background and economical status, and not really their nationality. I've lived in several places of Argentina and there are tons of people from all over South America saying how comfortable they feel here, specially in Buenos Aires.

Do you remember the Mayor of Buenos Aires Mauricio Macri who blamed “uncontrolled immigration?? :oh:

:rolleyes:

OH C'MON WE ARE XENOPHOBES, NOBODY HERE WANTS IMMIGRANTS FROM COUNTRIES LIKE BOLIVIA, PERÚ, PARAGUAY, CHILE, COLOMBIA, REPUBLICA DOMINICANA :oh:......south of Italy :lol:

Nicolás89
Apr 9th, 2012, 12:32 AM
At least they're good professionals because

Spanish Universities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chilean Universities

And I doubt that those Spaniards have risen the criminality index of your country, or have they?

Who said they are professionals? Most of them are young & inexperienced or just poorly trained who are trying luck.

And I wouldn't even say Spanish Universities are that good. Sure Spain has a few universities in the top 300 - top 500 range but so does Chile & it is a much much smaller & "less developed" country. Also the top Mexican, Argetine & Brazilian universities are much better pondered than any of the best Spanish universities, just check any international ranking.

Sammo
Apr 9th, 2012, 12:47 AM
Yeah and the top European universities are lightyears away from them. You bring the rest of South America into the debate, I bring the rest of Europe :lol:

And by the way you didn't answer to the criminality thing :oh: But anyway those South Americans are not Chilean, they're from Peru, Colombia, Guatemala...

Mynarco
Apr 9th, 2012, 01:01 AM
Its a comples issue but is it xenophobia or is it racism?

I have the same question as well.

Nicolás89
Apr 9th, 2012, 01:13 AM
Yeah and the top European universities are lightyears away from them. You bring the rest of South America into the debate, I bring the rest of Europe :lol:

And by the way you didn't answer to the criminality thing :oh: But anyway those South Americans are not Chilean, they're from Peru, Colombia, Guatemala...

I though it was always about Spain being >>>>>>>>>>>> South America, since you were complaining about south americans as a whole & said that their professionals were crap or something & now that your superior education system failed you to back that argument up you bring whole Europe? :confused:

moby
Apr 9th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Singapore is pretty bad when it comes to Bangladeshi and PRC workers (basically blue collared workers in general). With white people it's a mix of admiration and resentment.

ranfurly
Apr 9th, 2012, 01:29 AM
We are pretty easy going in New Zealand,

There is a bit of xenophobia when it comes to Islanders, Samoans, Tongans.

People suggest they breed like rabbits, and live of the New Zealand tax payer.

It is partially true, statistics are skewed towards them being on the bottom rung of society in those regards.

However, they make good laborers, and we have several tongans working in the olive groves during the season, and they are good workers.

Indians and Asians get the butt of jokes concerning fush&chup shops, corner dairies and liquor stores, but they are regarded as hard working.

Probably currently, there seems to be a little concern of Islam in NZ, I guess from what we see happening in the European Country, Kiwis are a little concerned of it happening over here.

PhilePhile
Apr 9th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Singapore is pretty bad when it comes to Bangladeshi and PRC workers (basically blue collared workers in general). With white people it's a mix of admiration and resentment.

And this is from a city state that had the highest proportion of millionaire households [in the world for 2010] at 15.5 percent (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-31/world-s-wealthy-rose-by-12-on-market-gains.html) (investable assets, does not include real estate, expensive car, art, etc..).


Locals ... are better than foreigners! (in Teochew dialect, one of the most conservative Chinese dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teochew_dialect))

wJtt7rEmSvs

antonella
Apr 9th, 2012, 02:55 AM
First of all, maybe it's just me but I think Chinese are quite xenophobic, though depending on different circumstances. This can be seen in the language - in Chinese, Gwei (aka Ghost) represents western people. Even though the derogative sense of this word has, somehow, gradually faded away (especially in Cantonese, not sure about in other dialects), there are some people still using this word in its derogatory sense. And a majority of Chinese still have the kneejerk defensive mindsets when some westerners attempt to criticise one bit about any Chinese matters (due to the history, of course), because in Chinese culture, it's quite impolite for foreigners to intervene other's own personal business.

However - for western people, especially for those who are white, tall, blond, they will be quite privileged in China because they fit in the stereotypes of wealthy westerners. Some young Chinese women are quite open themselves to the white men (maybe they want to get a good foreign passport, or they simply like white men).

And in Hong Kong, due to our unique ex-british colony history, we somehow internalise this xenophobic mind to fellow Chinese who are not from Hong Kong (but mainly to those who are leeching our benefits). Indeed, the cultural differences between Hongkongers and Mainlanders are quite vast, and there are conflicts about this on newspapers every other day. Apart from that, we quite welcome foreigners (I think)

As in the Japanese?

antonella
Apr 9th, 2012, 03:00 AM
I haven't heard a single Spaniard complain about any South American nation, but I heard many bitching about Romanians and not wanting their kids to go to same school with Romanian kids (who btw are Spanish already).
Also, I was surprised how much Valencia region is forcing their local patriotism with Valencian and whatnot. They may be heading for secession in the near future.

Romanians are Spanish?? ..lol So, where can I get Romanian Sangria or Paella? You must be the same one that said the Serbs come from Mongolia/China??

donellcarey
Apr 9th, 2012, 03:51 AM
In Spain South Americans are hated so much. Our socialist president (2004-2011) offered them jobs and now Spain is full of South Americans who steal our jobs :lol::sobbing: Like shitty doctors who know nothing :hysteric: And in return for that those South Americans who were given the Spanish nationality then voted for him to be re-elected :facepalm:

Oh well I don't hate South Americans it would be pathetic but this situation is really a shame. Also the violence in Spanish streets has risen because now it's something very usual to find these

http://www.americasalsa.net/images/fama_fortuna_junio/latin-kings-1.jpg

Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

:facepalm:

So Rajoy is better?:o

Mikey.
Apr 9th, 2012, 04:15 AM
A lot of people here seem to really afraid of and dislike anyone practising Islamic culture. Just about everyone is scared of and disproves of people just wearing traditional Islamic clothing, like a burqa for instance.

King Halep
Apr 9th, 2012, 04:46 AM
A lot of people here seem to really afraid of and dislike anyone practising Islamic culture. Just about everyone is scared of and disproves of people just wearing traditional Islamic clothing, like a burqa for instance.

from what i have heard of people talking about it, seems like a lot of muslim women wear it because of cultural pressure rather than because theres any practical value to it. The arguments for wearing it sound rather flimsy. What really makes it funny is when you see tourists from the middle east where the wife is completely covered in black while the husband is in tshirt and shorts and wearing all the brands. Theres nothing that will convince me there is some logic to that.

wateva
Apr 9th, 2012, 05:13 AM
Singapore is trying to rectify its brain drain problem by importing more foreign talents from China/India etc. However, it is not solving the problem as Singapore-born Singaporeans are still migrating to other countries and giving up their citizenships.

Take a ride on our public transport and you'll be greeted by Chinese accented Mandarin. Enjoy your meals (be it Chinese/Western/Korean/Japanese cuisine) being cooked by Chinese cooks and served by Filipino waiters. Sure, Singaporeans are not willing to take up such menial jobs but sometimes, it's just weird to feel like a foreigner in your own country.

Not to mention the influx of these new immigrants have driven up the prices of housing sky high that it is no longer affordable to even live in government subsidized flats. I am not against these foreigners/new immigrants (I get along well with my foreigner colleagues), but I seriously doubt they will settle in Singapore for the long term. Eventually, they will return to their home country once they find it no longer favourable to survive here.

The local government is not far-sighted enough to solve the root cause and Singaporeans are becoming more xenophobic, as seen in the video PhilePhile has posted. Not to mention the media is filled with negative reports of Chinese immigrants being rude and cases of Vietnamese prostitutes being raided. The irony is that all citizens of Singapore were immigrants themselves. :o

iGOAT
Apr 9th, 2012, 05:26 AM
Americans tend not to be xenophobic so much as dumb/ignorant that they come across as obnoxious to tourists when really they're just curious in a very unknowledgeable/potentially offensive way.

Overall, I've noticed some xenophobia of Mexicans, as this culture is starting to dominate that of America and most Asians are definitely regarded differently than other foreigners and tourists but less in a xenophobic way I'd say.

ranfurly
Apr 9th, 2012, 05:27 AM
A lot of people here seem to really afraid of and dislike anyone practising Islamic culture. Just about everyone is scared of and disproves of people just wearing traditional Islamic clothing, like a burqa for instance.

I don't have a problem with them wearing a Burqa or Hajib.

What I do have a problem is when they refuse to take it of for passport photos, identification.

Various bank managers here request people wearing them to take them of for security reasons.

I think that is justified aswell.

Dani12
Apr 9th, 2012, 06:00 AM
Americans tend not to be xenophobic so much as dumb/ignorant that they come across as obnoxious to tourists when really they're just curious in a very unknowledgeable/potentially offensive way.

Overall, I've noticed some xenophobia of Mexicans, as this culture is starting to dominate that of America and most Asians are definitely regarded differently than other foreigners and tourists but less in a xenophobic way I'd say.

Funny you say that. I got asked some hilarious questions during my time in America...nothing offensive...just ignorant things like Do you get lightning? Do you have christmas in Australia? Plus thinking Uluru/Ayers Rock was a made up fantasy land.

I found the mid-west to be most xenophobic of middle eastern people mostly. Not too bad though.

Australia skews from extreme xenophobia to the complete opposite, depending on where you are...the country or city, not that i'm saying that all country people are xenophobes and ll city people aren't, but that'd be the trend if you ask me.

Pvt. Kovalenko
Apr 9th, 2012, 06:04 AM
As a brazilian, I can say that ALL tourists, from any country, are Welcome in here. But, lately, we are having a serious problem with Spain.

That be clear that the problem is not the spanish people, but the restrictions that the Spanish Government, apply to Brazilian tourists. Now our Government is applying an "Eye per Eye" restriction, with spanish tourists. Leave someone, locked in a room, without communication, food and water for hours, as the Spanish authorities are doing with some Brazilian tourists, is beyond Xenophobia..

A lot of people here seem to really afraid of and dislike anyone practising Islamic culture. Just about everyone is scared of and disproves of people just wearing traditional Islamic clothing, like a burqa for instance.
People tends to be afraid of things, they can't understand (or don't want to make a effort to understand).

Some years ago, Brazil received some refugees from the Middle East (I don't recall from where). Some of them, ended up in my city. Here, there's a, relatively big, Islamic community. Today, is normal we see some woman all covered up, with just the face out. Even in the summer. Was weird in the begining, but is normal now..

Veritas
Apr 9th, 2012, 06:10 AM
First of all, maybe it's just me but I think Chinese are quite xenophobic, though depending on different circumstances. This can be seen in the language - in Chinese, Gwei (aka Ghost) represents western people. Even though the derogative sense of this word has, somehow, gradually faded away (especially in Cantonese, not sure about in other dialects), there are some people still using this word in its derogatory sense. And a majority of Chinese still have the kneejerk defensive mindsets when some westerners attempt to criticise one bit about any Chinese matters (due to the history, of course), because in Chinese culture, it's quite impolite for foreigners to intervene other's own personal business.

However - for western people, especially for those who are white, tall, blond, they will be quite privileged in China because they fit in the stereotypes of wealthy westerners. Some young Chinese women are quite open themselves to the white men (maybe they want to get a good foreign passport, or they simply like white men).

And in Hong Kong, due to our unique ex-british colony history, we somehow internalise this xenophobic mind to fellow Chinese who are not from Hong Kong (but mainly to those who are leeching our benefits). Indeed, the cultural differences between Hongkongers and Mainlanders are quite vast, and there are conflicts about this on newspapers every other day. Apart from that, we quite welcome foreigners (I think)

I think the Chinese discriminate more on material wealth rather than a person's race. If you're perceived to be rich you'll get the cheesiest form of admiration resentment. But if you happen to come from a society that is - to put it bluntly - "poor" then you'll be looked down upon.

Otherwise how can you explain, for example, people from Hong Kong discriminating against their mainland brethren despite sharing the same culture? It also explains why light skinned people are highly sought-after because they're unlikely to be lower class labourers who toil in the open fields.

In short the Chinese are quite shallow, though I find this to be more common amongst the YOUNGER crowd who are preoccupied with designer brands and luxury goods.

King Halep
Apr 9th, 2012, 06:25 AM
^agree with you except its not just the YOUNGER crowd

Veritas
Apr 9th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Funny you say that. I got asked some hilarious questions during my time in America...nothing offensive...just ignorant things like Do you get lightning? Do you have christmas in Australia? Plus thinking Uluru/Ayers Rock was a made up fantasy land.

I found the mid-west to be most xenophobic of middle eastern people mostly. Not too bad though.

Australia skews from extreme xenophobia to the complete opposite, depending on where you are...the country or city, not that i'm saying that all country people are xenophobes and ll city people aren't, but that'd be the trend if you ask me.

Having grown up in Australia, I agree that "xenophobia" may be a more accurate term to describe the darker side of society than "racism". I don't think attitudes are skewed to either extremes - it's an accepting society overall - but I have little experience of the country other than the state I'm in.

Melbourne has a particularly large Asian population (mostly Indian, Sri Lankan and Chinese) and the Muslim presence has become more noticeable particularly over the past decade. And because the changes have come about so fast, I can tell a lot of people are struggling to adapt comfortably.

I agree there's the intolerant few, but in general Australia should be commended for the tremendous efforts it's made. It's difficult to strike a balance between preserving your traditional values and finding a place for those different from yours. But Australia's been persistent and I'm sure many immigrants would honestly say that they're grateful for it.

Whitehead's Boy
Apr 9th, 2012, 07:10 AM
I think the major difference between countries is how people express their xenophobia, and not so much the level of xenophobia. I've never been to Chili but perhaps it is that people are blunt and brutally honest so people will face xenophobia the very first day? And in Japan, you'll face xenophobia when you scratch the surface and start seeing the "No Foreigner Allowed" signs and realize people not interested in the bit to develop a friendship with you because you're a foreigner, and just wanted the free Engrish lessons for a couple of months?

How about the legendary Thai smile? After a while you realize people smile for all sorts of reasons, both positive and negative, and smiles become a meaningless indicator. And once you learn Thai you get an entirely different picture of the country.

While some countries are undoubtly more welcoming of foreigners than others, people need to remind themselves that just because you don't hear and see the xenophobia doesn't mean it's not there.

(Though that fair enough, I would rather live in a country where the xenophobia is not in my face and is more difficultly noticeable).

Genevieve72
Apr 9th, 2012, 07:35 AM
http://www.infoocean.info/avatar3.jpgAgreed on Colombia, I'm sure there are issues but it seemed like everyone from all cultures and races got along.

AliceMariaRenka
Apr 9th, 2012, 09:47 AM
All countries I have been to have been very friendly to us as tourists.

I think people in all countries have an issue with mass immigration. I don't think it's xenophobia or even racism - though in some cases it is. For the majority of people it is simply the idea of their home being invaded by mass immigration. And however it may appear, the Islamification of Europe is a serious concern for many people in all the countries affected by it. When I go to London I am always taken aback by the number of women in full burkhas in many parts of London. One could actually be in an Islamic country in many parts of London. Some of you will say that there is nothing wrong with that and take the politically correct position, but for many it is disconcerting and a shock.

McPie
Apr 9th, 2012, 09:57 AM
for THA we don't have big problem about xeno on here, but yeah they exist some :shrug:

WowWow
Apr 9th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Romanians are Spanish?? ..lol So, where can I get Romanian Sangria or Paella? You must be the same one that said the Serbs come from Mongolia/China??

Why don't you try in nearby restaurants...I'm sure it'll take some time, which will give us some nonsense free time in this thread.
Also while you're at it, why don't you browse that retarded thread you're talking about...that'll give us extra few hours.
Let us know if you find it. :kiss:

Yoncé
Apr 9th, 2012, 12:38 PM
Pauline Hanson.

Sammo
Apr 9th, 2012, 02:09 PM
:facepalm:

So Rajoy is better?:o

Eh... well he's better at some things and worse at others... I dont like him at all OK? had Zapatero and his government not being completely useless managing the crisis and a bunch of thieves I would have preferred Zapatero. But anyway Rajoy wouldn't have screwed it the way Zapatero did had he been elected president in 2008.

Mynarco
Apr 9th, 2012, 02:21 PM
I think the Chinese discriminate more on material wealth rather than a person's race. If you're perceived to be rich you'll get the cheesiest form of admiration resentment. But if you happen to come from a society that is - to put it bluntly - "poor" then you'll be looked down upon.

Otherwise how can you explain, for example, people from Hong Kong discriminating against their mainland brethren despite sharing the same culture? It also explains why light skinned people are highly sought-after because they're unlikely to be lower class labourers who toil in the open fields.

In short the Chinese are quite shallow, though I find this to be more common amongst the YOUNGER crowd who are preoccupied with designer brands and luxury goods.

I agree with what you said here. However, I somehow believe it's more or less human nature striving for their best in life. Some Chinese just prefer to do it explicitly, there's nothing wrong with that.

And I am not sure if this is appropriate, but we need to put our own history into the context. I believe the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s-1970s somehow paved the way for why Chinese nowadays are PRONE to being quite materialistic. And at the moment China is still suffering a huge income gap between the rich and the poor. There are so many reasons driving Chinese to do their best to get away from destitution.

King Halep
Apr 9th, 2012, 09:48 PM
^ i dont think its just the Cultural Revolution. look at the state of the country in the 1930s it was more materialistic and 'bourgeois' back then and gave an excuse for the communists to take over

Keadz
Apr 10th, 2012, 01:33 AM
Australia is weird. Ofcourse we have your typical amount of uneducated, living of welfare payment, have 12 kids from three marriage racists. Or country people who have never been exposed to much more than whats in their town (fortunately this is changing). Then there are just normal people who seem fairly brainwashed from media coverage of certain events (boat people for example), who come accross as racists without even realising what they are saying.

Other than that, I think most Australians are welcoming towards individuals they personally meet. They might talk negatively about a culture at one stage, but if they get to know or start working with an individual from that culture its like they struggle to make the connection between the two.

Overall most Australians are welcoming and multiculturalism has been incredibly succesful. Perhaps political incorectness can be thought of as xenophobic but there usually isn't any malicious intent behind those comments. Anybody visiting or moving to Australia is expected to embrace this and give us much as they get! Got to be a good sport about it.

Cajka
Apr 10th, 2012, 03:56 AM
Serbia was involved in many wars in last 100 years, so I can't deny that there is xenophobia. There are so called patriots who hate Croats, Albanians and Americans (because of bombing). I don't know if there was some research, but my impressions is that the most of the people are not xenophobic at all, but, unfortunately, those who are often make a terrible mess and make the front pages, which makes a trouble for all of us. Recently there was a handball championship in Serbia and few idiots attacked some Croatian fans. The people in Serbia were really angry and ashamed, but the damage was done. It's just sad to see that nobody can stop those hooliggans.

tennisbum79
Apr 10th, 2012, 04:43 AM
I think the Chinese discriminate more on material wealth rather than a person's race. If you're perceived to be rich you'll get the cheesiest form of admiration resentment. But if you happen to come from a society that is - to put it bluntly - "poor" then you'll be looked down upon.

Otherwise how can you explain, for example, people from Hong Kong discriminating against their mainland brethren despite sharing the same culture? It also explains why light skinned people are highly sought-after because they're unlikely to be lower class labourers who toil in the open fields.

In short the Chinese are quite shallow, though I find this to be more common amongst the YOUNGER crowd who are preoccupied with designer brands and luxury goods.

Is that also the reason why white, blonde are treated like kings, and apparently all Chinese women dream to get a blonde white man?
I have read about this many times from testimonials of Americans, both black and white who have spent time in China.
The difference in treatment is like day and night.



And does it explain why black people are despised and sometimes called devils?

tennisbum79
Apr 10th, 2012, 04:47 AM
Interesting how candid people can be when the spot light is not uniquely on their country.


In my experience, posters tend not admit these things when their country is put on the spot.



These thread is like an AA meeting where people bare their should w/o expecting any value judgment of their country.

tennisbum79
Apr 10th, 2012, 04:54 AM
In Spain South Americans are hated so much. Our socialist president (2004-2011) offered them jobs and now Spain is full of South Americans who steal our jobs :lol::sobbing: Like shitty doctors who know nothing :hysteric: And in return for that those South Americans who were given the Spanish nationality then voted for him to be re-elected :facepalm:

Oh well I don't hate South Americans it would be pathetic but this situation is really a shame. Also the violence in Spanish streets has risen because now it's something very usual to find these

http://www.americasalsa.net/images/fama_fortuna_junio/latin-kings-1.jpg

Fucking Zapatero fuck you, you've ruined this country even more!!!! If it wasn't for that president we wouldn't be as bad as we are. He's dumb and he named dumb ministers in order not to be eclipsed by intelligent people. Jesus :facepalm:

THis is a little surprising to me that Spain treat south Americans worse than they are treated here in the USA.


During FIFA World Cup of football, spanish language TV in the USA, catering to south American immigrants in the USA, if Spain is in competition they are squarely behind Spain with TV commentator using word like "La Madre Patria", with studio audience loud approval.

Londoner
Apr 10th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Serbia was involved in many wars in last 100 years, so I can't deny that there is xenophobia. There are so called patriots who hate Croats, Albanians and Americans (because of bombing). I don't know if there was some research, but my impressions is that the most of the people are not xenophobic at all, but, unfortunately, those who are often make a terrible mess and make the front pages, which makes a trouble for all of us. Recently there was a handball championship in Serbia and few idiots attacked some Croatian fans. The people in Serbia were really angry and ashamed, but the damage was done. It's just sad to see that nobody can stop those hooliggans.

Interesting. It always surprises me when Croatia and Serbia always vote for each other in the Eurovision Song Contest!

Actually the Contest is an example of the divisions still in Europe: Greece and Cyprus, Cyprus and Malta, UK and Ireland, ex- Yugoslavian countries, Nordic countries etc. all voting for each other! I'm admitting my own bias when I admit I felt a bit peeved when everyone was fawning over that awful song from Germany a few years ago!:lol:

Veritas
Apr 10th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Is that also the reason why white, blonde are treated like kings, and apparently all Chinese women dream to get a blonde white man?
I have read about this many times from testimonials of Americans, both black and white who have spent time in China.
The difference in treatment is like day and night.



And does it explain why black people are despised and sometimes called devils?

Clearly you don't have enough experience or knowledge of Chinese society to be making such statements. "Despised"? I think 'ignorance' is a more appropriate term to generalise the attitudes. After all how can you "despise" a group of people whom you've had little to do with?

The testimonials from those Americans were likely to be influenced by their misunderstanding. Some may speak plausible Mandarin, but how familiar are they with the complexities in Chinese culture and how its people understand their surroundings?

I get that Americans view things mainly from what they've learnt and experienced in their society. In particular the history of slavery and the Civil Rights Movement would have been profound in their impact on how Americans understand social relations.

But when that's used in turn to understand Chinese society, they're gonna come across roadblocks because of the limitations in that approach. For example never in China's history has it experienced a melting pot of different cultures to the extent America's had; and it's thousands of years older. Even when conquered by nomadic tribes, it was Chinese culture that was adapted to, no that of the conquerer's. If anything "xenophobia" is mostly directed towards societies that China's had a long history of interacting with.

Anyway I don't want to veer too far from the topic at hand. You mentioned about the need for people to be candid in their assessments. I suggest that you take that advice for yourself by not jumping the gun in judging a society, especially ones which you have little understanding of.

Veritas
Apr 10th, 2012, 10:49 AM
^ i dont think its just the Cultural Revolution. look at the state of the country in the 1930s it was more materialistic and 'bourgeois' back then and gave an excuse for the communists to take over

There was nothing "bourgeois" about China back then. It was more of a mess overrun by gangs and corrupt officials.

Whitehead's Boy
Apr 10th, 2012, 02:12 PM
The idea that caucasians are treated like kings in China must be a fantasy of some students and expats spending their time in Shanghai expat clubs and having a couple of prostitutes telling them how wonderful they are. Also the vast majority of Chinese people have no interest whatsoever to date a non-Chinese person.

Cajka
Apr 10th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Interesting. It always surprises me when Croatia and Serbia always vote for each other in the Eurovision Song Contest!


People in Serbia LOVE Croatian music. It's the same language, after all. I won't be surprise if some crazy Serb or Croat starts attacking me now, but it really is the same language.

Joana
Apr 10th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Serbia was involved in many wars in last 100 years, so I can't deny that there is xenophobia. There are so called patriots who hate Croats, Albanians and Americans (because of bombing).

That's not really xenophobia, it's more or less pure ethnic hatred, or in case of Albanians, borderline racism.

Foreigners are well liked here as long as they do what's expected, that is, praise the nightlife in Belgrade, food and women (the most beautiful in the world - *sigh*.
I suspect it would be a whole lot different if more of them actually wanted to settle down here or, God forbid, actually be critical of the conditions in Serbia.

InsideOut.
Apr 10th, 2012, 05:16 PM
First of all, maybe it's just me but I think Chinese are quite xenophobic, though depending on different circumstances. This can be seen in the language - in Chinese, Gwei (aka Ghost) represents western people. Even though the derogative sense of this word has, somehow, gradually faded away (especially in Cantonese, not sure about in other dialects), there are some people still using this word in its derogatory sense. And a majority of Chinese still have the kneejerk defensive mindsets when some westerners attempt to criticise one bit about any Chinese matters (due to the history, of course), because in Chinese culture, it's quite impolite for foreigners to intervene other's own personal business.

However - for western people, especially for those who are white, tall, blond, they will be quite privileged in China because they fit in the stereotypes of wealthy westerners. Some young Chinese women are quite open themselves to the white men (maybe they want to get a good foreign passport, or they simply like white men).

And in Hong Kong, due to our unique ex-british colony history, we somehow internalise this xenophobic mind to fellow Chinese who are not from Hong Kong (but mainly to those who are leeching our benefits). Indeed, the cultural differences between Hongkongers and Mainlanders are quite vast, and there are conflicts about this on newspapers every other day. Apart from that, we quite welcome foreigners (I think)

Xenophobia was definitely a defining characteristic of Chinese nationalism back in imperial times. Chinese people had 4 different words for 'barbarians', depending on whether they came from the North, South, East or West. The idea of a 'Middle Kingdom' to begin with was premised on the assumption that the Chinese civilization was culturally and intellectually superior to their neighbours, which to be fair, was true for thousands of years. So it shouldn't surprise people that the worst forms of xenophobia have always been reserved for their neighbouring countries - say India - in Cantonese,one of the oldest languages in China (far older than Mandarin), people would call brown people "阿差", which essentially means 'bad person'. I think the reason this sort of xenophobia never really extended to the same extent to Caucasians was due to historical factors - the fact that true interaction between China and the West only started late in the Ming Dynasty, with trade (which by its very two-way nature tends to create equitable relationships) and later war - in which China lost. This was of course demoralizing for the Chinese people, but with fear also comes respect for Western technology, which may have even led to the creation of an inferiority complex, which I think still exists today. I do believe that is partly why the typical Chinese person is very amiable to foreigners.

Nowadays, I would say that Chinese perception of foreign countries and their people isn't really driven by their immutable traits or by any fantasy of cultural superiority, but rather by the policies taken by their respective governments, or the potential threat posed by the economies or military capacities of other countries. That is why I don't think xenophobia is as relevant to modern-day China as before. with relation is of a nature. They despise Western colonialism and by extension of that, Western hegemony and interference in the domestic affairs of China (such as Tibet), and they do, as you mentioned, have knee-jerk reactions to any affront to Chinese history (say every time Koizumi visited the Yasukuni Shrine). I think you are right, to an extent, to say that they do still react to criticisms of Chinese culture ('foreigners don't understand!') but it tends to be not so much a hatred of Western culture (people in China do like Western ideas, ranging from consumerism to, yes, democracy as can be seen evidently on the Internet) but a defence of cultural relativism.

Your point on Hong Kong is an interesting one. Hong Kong is a special case; after all, being separate for over a century from China, during which it turned from a sleepy fishing village into an international financial centre, Hong Kong's culture was certainly changed a lot. I think Hong Kong people are quite xenophobic actually, probably more so than their Mainland counterparts. Simply because our economy has been doing so well, and we spent a century under relatively liberal British. Hong Kong's relationship with the Mainland is quite astonishing - Hong Kong people do like to claim cultural superiority in terms of having more freedom, less corruption, more efficient transportation, a freer economy, and above all, a greater level of civilization, even though we're all just Chinese in the end. They perceive Mainlanders as loud, unhygienic, uncultured inferiors who spit on the streets, have no manners, squat when they are waiting instead of sitting, and so on. To an extent this characterization is true, but the way it translates to hate (and recently they started calling them locusts because pregnant women came to Hong Kong to take advantage of the medical system, give birth to their babies and get them Hong Kong citizenship, then leave for the Mainland with the young child left in Hong Kong with relatives or in the care of the government) is quite appalling.

Then you have the rampant xenophobia towards Filipinos, principally because so many of them came over to be domestic helpers and are automatically thought of as inferior. That was quite evident when people were protesting about Filipino helpers potentially becoming permanent citizens of Hong Kong. That I think is one of the worst forms of discrimination in Hong Kong, yet people seem contentedly oblivious to the situation. Quite sad really. It's similar for South Asians - some of my friends from India and Pakistan have told me that just by understanding a few lines of Cantonese, they can tell that people are talking about them pejoratively on the streets, assuming they can't understand.

On the other hand, I don't think people are xenophobic towards Westerners. This could be due to race, and due to the assumption that Western culture is inherently superior, and better than the remnants of Chinese civilization. So many of Hong Kong's younger generation are actually completely deluded about the West, and biased towards China - there's so much ass-kissing of Western thought and Western culture and less so for China, even though it's really due to the Chinese government that Hong Kong has stayed afloat economically for the past decade or so.

And this is from a city state that had the highest proportion of millionaire households [in the world for 2010] at 15.5 percent (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-31/world-s-wealthy-rose-by-12-on-market-gains.html) (investable assets, does not include real estate, expensive car, art, etc..).


Locals ... are better than foreigners! (in Teochew dialect, one of the most conservative Chinese dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teochew_dialect))

wJtt7rEmSvs

I find it intriguing that the video was in Teochew. Teochew is known for being one of the most xenophobic places in all of China. The philosophy of its inhabitants for centuries was that they would help the 'ga gi nang' (our own people) first, and reserve all the benefits and wealth they accumulate for the profit of the Teochew people. It didn't help that later it became a rich port city, which added to the sense of superiority. But then Teochew culture was also one of the richest in Southern China, with its own dialect, cuisine and music, and their people were also very affluent and influential - they were among the first to emigrate around Southeast Asia, notably to Thailand and the Malay Peninsula.

Singapore is trying to rectify its brain drain problem by importing more foreign talents from China/India etc. However, it is not solving the problem as Singapore-born Singaporeans are still migrating to other countries and giving up their citizenships.

Take a ride on our public transport and you'll be greeted by Chinese accented Mandarin. Enjoy your meals (be it Chinese/Western/Korean/Japanese cuisine) being cooked by Chinese cooks and served by Filipino waiters. Sure, Singaporeans are not willing to take up such menial jobs but sometimes, it's just weird to feel like a foreigner in your own country.

Not to mention the influx of these new immigrants have driven up the prices of housing sky high that it is no longer affordable to even live in government subsidized flats. I am not against these foreigners/new immigrants (I get along well with my foreigner colleagues), but I seriously doubt they will settle in Singapore for the long term. Eventually, they will return to their home country once they find it no longer favourable to survive here.

The local government is not far-sighted enough to solve the root cause and Singaporeans are becoming more xenophobic, as seen in the video PhilePhile has posted. Not to mention the media is filled with negative reports of Chinese immigrants being rude and cases of Vietnamese prostitutes being raided. The irony is that all citizens of Singapore were immigrants themselves. :o

I think to a certain extent you have to acknowledge that the Chinese immigrants don't make an effort to integrate into Singaporean society. This could be due to the culture being quite different - ultimately Singaporean Chinese have been separate from Mainland Chinese for many years, and the latter did go through a few decades of Communist rule. That's why last year there was the 'Cook a Pot of Curry Day' thing as well - because the new immigrants were complaining of their Indian neighbours cooking curry that they claimed was smelly. There's only so much the government can do to integrate them if they don't make an effort on themselves. The way they interact with their new homeland means that pluralism can't really happen because they're unwilling to engage in any sort of inter-cultural dialogue. This of course applies only to some, and not all, Chinese immigrants.

Cajka
Apr 10th, 2012, 05:42 PM
That's not really xenophobia, it's more or less pure ethnic hatred, or in case of Albanians, borderline racism.

Foreigners are well liked here as long as they do what's expected, that is, praise the nightlife in Belgrade, food and women (the most beautiful in the world - *sigh*.
I suspect it would be a whole lot different if more of them actually wanted to settle down here or, God forbid, actually be critical of the conditions in Serbia.

You're right, it's an isolated hatred, not a hatred towards foreigners in general. You're also right when you say that Serbs like just those foreigners who come here on vacation or something. For example, when Russians came to some parts of Serbia and Montenegro, they suddenly stopped being our orthodox brothers. I spoke to many people from Montenegro, they just can't stand them. Serbs who work in NIS feel the same about them. :lol:

tennisbum79
Apr 11th, 2012, 03:22 AM
Clearly you don't have enough experience or knowledge of Chinese society to be making such statements. "Despised"? I think 'ignorance' is a more appropriate term to generalise the attitudes. After all how can you "despise" a group of people whom you've had little to do with?

The testimonials from those Americans were likely to be influenced by their misunderstanding. Some may speak plausible Mandarin, but how familiar are they with the complexities in Chinese culture and how its people understand their surroundings?
.
What are you talking about?
Thye live there as students, they were not tourists?

Last was year, there a story of Chinese girl who was a competitor on China version of American Idol.
The girl was of mixed race, her father was black, the mother whom she lives with is chinese.
The girl cleary had black features, she knew it.
But the mother never told she had balck father, she simply tell she is just darker than the other girls.
She also told the same thing to the neighbors, who had been suspecious that her daughter look strange.
She had picked on at school becuase her skin color and african features.


During the times was the show, peole would call to the show to tell the produces to get her off the show because she was embarassing Chinese people.


Lou Jing, half black Chinese girl, sparks race debate in China (http://boingboing.net/2009/11/16/lou-jing-half-black.html)


By Lisa Katayama (http://boingboing.net/author/lisa_katayama) at 10:39 am Monday, Nov 16

http://www.boingboing.net/filesroot/lou%20jing.pngA 20-year old Shanghai woman of mixed race has sparked a discussion about race in China. Lou Jing is half black; she was raised by a Chinese mother and speaks and acts like any other Chinese girl. But when the aspiring TV anchor entered an American Idol-like contest and rapped on-stage, she attracted both sensational admiration and ignorant hate. The presenters adoringly called her "chocolate girl" on stage — meanwhile, on web forums, people called her gross and ugly and criticized her mother for having sex with a black person out of wedlock. In an interview with NPR's All Things Considered, Lou Jing says: "I've always thought of myself as Shanghainese, but after the competition I started to have doubts about who I really am."

Lou Jing has never met her dad, who left China without knowing he had gotten her mom pregnant. She hopes to study journalism at Columbia University.



More http://www.chinasmack.com/2009/stories/shanghai-black-girl-lou-jing-racist-chinese-netizens.html

http://dimewars.com/Video/Racism-Against-Black-People-In-China-Rears-Its-Ugly-Head---She-Is-Half-Chinese.aspx?bcmediaid=c2c882b1-67d6-4395-9d76-b73909c5ab08

i7vRwFGW8H0

MaBaker
Apr 12th, 2012, 08:50 AM
People in Serbia LOVE Croatian music. It's the same language, after all. I won't be surprise if some crazy Serb or Croat starts attacking me now, but it really is the same language.
Is anyone who disagrees with you crazy?

Cajka
Apr 12th, 2012, 04:05 PM
Is anyone who disagrees with you crazy?

Generally - no. But if we talk about this problem - then yes, sorry if it includes you. The linguists in the whole world are laughing at us because of the language situation. 4 languages in 4 small countries and we don't live on Tibet to have some isolated languages. I've never heard a decent explanation why those languages should be separated, but feel free to offer your explanation, based on linguistics - of course, not on politics or religion.

McPie
Apr 12th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Generally - no. But if we talk about this problem - then yes, sorry if it includes you. The linguists in the whole world are laughing at us because of the language situation. 4 languages in 4 small countries and we don't live on Tibet to have some isolated languages. I've never heard a decent explanation why those languages should be separated, but feel free to offer your explanation, based on linguistics - of course, not on politics or religion.

agreed :spit: SRB/HRV (I know it's Croatia but I prefer Hrvatska)/BOS/CRN (I know it's Montenegro but I prefer Crna Gora) different only a little spelling, for the rest about 95%+ (I think, I'm not Balkan though) is the same sounds & spelling, it's like Northern Thai, Central Thai, Northeastern Thai and Southern Thai differences as I found some ;)

MaBaker
Apr 12th, 2012, 07:19 PM
Generally - no. But if we talk about this problem - then yes, sorry if it includes you. The linguists in the whole world are laughing at us because of the language situation. 4 languages in 4 small countries and we don't live on Tibet to have some isolated languages. I've never heard a decent explanation why those languages should be separated, but feel free to offer your explanation, based on linguistics - of course, not on politics or religion.
It's your opinion, I just think you're a bit full of yourself and tend to present your opinion as some ultimate truth. It's annoying. You writing "I won't be surprise if some crazy Serb or Croat starts attacking me now " is a bit insane because there are no crazy Croats on this forum and I believe that crazy Serbs are too focused on those two flops to attack you just because of that, you give your opinion too much importance.

Cajka
Apr 12th, 2012, 07:35 PM
It's your opinion, I just think you're a bit full of yourself and tend to present your opinion as some ultimate truth. It's annoying. You writing "I won't be surprise if some crazy Serb or Croat starts attacking me now " is a bit insane because there are no crazy Croats on this forum and I believe that crazy Serbs are too focused on those two flops to attack you just because of that, you give your opinion too much importance.

It's not just my stupid opinion, it's the opinion of the best Serbian and Croatian linguists. And I've studied Serbian linguistics for 8 years, I'm a phd student, so it's not only some stupid opinion, I have some knowledge too. I'll ask you again, do you have some opinion about it, do you even know anything about it? Or you're just here to analyze my personality and insult me. Tell me, what's the difference between Serbian and Croatian? Refleks jata, to što mi imamo ćirilicu, zanemarljive razlike u leksici (kuća, dom, kućanica, domaćica), izvesne razlike u sufiksalnoj tvorbi i? Šta još? Reci kad znaš bolje od svih nas iritantnih i nadobudnih.

Brena
Apr 12th, 2012, 08:05 PM
That's not really xenophobia, it's more or less pure ethnic hatred, or in case of Albanians, borderline racism.

In the cases of Serbs vs. Croats and Albanians, there is indeed some ethnic hatred that goes both ways (exists on both sides) due to historical circumstances. However, here we're talking about people with extreme views. It's more often a mutual distrust, which I'd call prejudice or xenophobia. For example, if I found myself right now in Priština or some other Albanian-dominated part of Kosovo, I'd be worried about my internal organs. OTOH, if Miloti met me there, he'd think I had come to kill him and steal his Illyrian churches. Some bad historical experiences, some propaganda, and there you go - we're both distrustful of one another even though we don't hate each other.
As for the Americans, I don't think the unpopularity of the US should be lumped together with the two previous examples. It's something more abstract, it's not something 'personal' with the American people as it is with Croats and Albanians, but rather an indignation with the US foreign policy (which can be found in almost every country in the world nowadays even if it wasn't slightly bombed as we were).

Foreigners are well liked here as long as they do what's expected, that is, praise the nightlife in Belgrade, food and women (the most beautiful in the world - *sigh*.
I suspect it would be a whole lot different if more of them actually wanted to settle down here or, God forbid, actually be critical of the conditions in Serbia.

I don't really agree with this either. Apart from the traditional hospitality, in recent years especially, foreigners are being fawned over, so it's only natural they like it here. And people here want to be good hosts probably because we have felt ostracised and isolated for so long, that we want to be accepted by others again and well-liked.

Joana
Apr 12th, 2012, 10:53 PM
It's not just my stupid opinion, it's the opinion of the best Serbian and Croatian linguists. And I've studied Serbian linguistics for 8 years, I'm a phd student, so it's not only some stupid opinion, I have some knowledge too. I'll ask you again, do you have some opinion about it, do you even know anything about it? Or you're just here to analyze my personality and insult me. Tell me, what's the difference between Serbian and Croatian? Refleks jata, to što mi imamo ćirilicu, zanemarljive razlike u leksici (kuća, dom, kućanica, domaćica), izvesne razlike u sufiksalnoj tvorbi i? Šta još? Reci kad znaš bolje od svih nas iritantnih i nadobudnih.

We can't disregard the sociolinguistic aspect, though. I think it's safe to say that most Serbs and Croats perceive their languages as different (might me somewhat more pronounced on the Croatian side) and that combined with the actual differences between the two may be enough to treat them as two separate languages.
As far as I'm concerned, they can either be seen as two very similar languages, or one language with two official variants.

Sammo
Apr 12th, 2012, 10:59 PM
I'm just xenophobic with a certain race...

http://images.wikia.com/walkingdead/images/e/e5/Zombies.jpg

Cajka
Apr 13th, 2012, 01:20 AM
We can't disregard the sociolinguistic aspect, though. I think it's safe to say that most Serbs and Croats perceive their languages as different (might me somewhat more pronounced on the Croatian side) and that combined with the actual differences between the two may be enough to treat them as two separate languages.
As far as I'm concerned, they can either be seen as two very similar languages, or one language with two official variants.

Honestly, we can only say that there are people who want those languages to be different, but they are not.

Moglo se to i izbeći, Hrvati su mogli za osnovicu standarda uzeti čakavsku ikavicu, ali su uzeli hercegovačko-krajiški, koji je i u osnovici srpskog standardnog jezika, odnosno hrvatski i srpski su sistemski identični. Najveća razlika je refleks jata, ali po toj logici moja majka i ja govorimo različitim jezicima pošto ona čuva ijekavicu, a ja sam rođena ovde. Možemo umešati i sociolingvistiku kao krajnji argument kad se nijedan drugi više ne može pronaći, ali veliko je pitanje da li većina ljudi misli da su to različiti jezici. Oni koji misle tako su zapravo oni koji žele u to da veruju, i to iz sasvim pogrešnih razloga, a to su, kao što več rekoh, budale. Sve su to kompleksi i rane koje vuku dva nesrećna mala naroda koja su toliko slična, a toliko žele da budu različitase razlikuju. Tuga. Nije ni čudo što nam se sve ovo desilo. Toliko od mene na ovu temu.

MaBaker
Apr 13th, 2012, 09:10 AM
It's not just my stupid opinion, it's the opinion of the best Serbian and Croatian linguists. And I've studied Serbian linguistics for 8 years, I'm a phd student, so it's not only some stupid opinion, I have some knowledge too. I'll ask you again, do you have some opinion about it, do you even know anything about it? Or you're just here to analyze my personality and insult me. Tell me, what's the difference between Serbian and Croatian? Refleks jata, to što mi imamo ćirilicu, zanemarljive razlike u leksici (kuća, dom, kućanica, domaćica), izvesne razlike u sufiksalnoj tvorbi i? Šta još? Reci kad znaš bolje od svih nas iritantnih i nadobudnih.
Honestly, we can only say that there are people who want those languages to be different, but they are not.

Moglo se to i izbeći, Hrvati su mogli za osnovicu standarda uzeti čakavsku ikavicu, ali su uzeli hercegovačko-krajiški, koji je i u osnovici srpskog standardnog jezika, odnosno hrvatski i srpski su sistemski identični. Najveća razlika je refleks jata, ali po toj logici moja majka i ja govorimo različitim jezicima pošto ona čuva ijekavicu, a ja sam rođena ovde. Možemo umešati i sociolingvistiku kao krajnji argument kad se nijedan drugi više ne može pronaći, ali veliko je pitanje da li većina ljudi misli da su to različiti jezici. Oni koji misle tako su zapravo oni koji žele u to da veruju, i to iz sasvim pogrešnih razloga, a to su, kao što več rekoh, budale. Sve su to kompleksi i rane koje vuku dva nesrećna mala naroda koja su toliko slična, a toliko žele da budu različitase razlikuju. Tuga. Nije ni čudo što nam se sve ovo desilo. Toliko od mene na ovu temu.
I did not say that your opinion is stupid, nor did I insult you or God forbid analyzed your personality. You, on the other hand, keep insulting people who would disagree with you by calling them crazy or fools and that's what's annoying.

Oh and this post
I love them both, but some ancitards think that I prefer JJ, that I'm a hater and ugly on the inside, while some jjtards find me annoying for some reason, maybe because I don't hate Croats. Whatever
Who on earth asked you to hate Croats or even talked of any hate here? Seriously..

azdaja
Apr 13th, 2012, 06:46 PM
We can't disregard the sociolinguistic aspect, though. I think it's safe to say that most Serbs and Croats perceive their languages as different (might me somewhat more pronounced on the Croatian side) and that combined with the actual differences between the two may be enough to treat them as two separate languages.
you can take sociolinguistic aspect (in this case wishful thinking) into account only as much. like, you use 3 different names for the language in which you offer services on the city government website:

http://www.wien.gv.at

or at the uni you offer people to study a language under 3 different names:

http://online.univie.ac.at/vlvz?kapitel=1304&semester=S2012#1304_44

but you don't treat 3 different standards based on the same dialect as different languages. and do serbs, croats and bosnians really think they speak 3 different languages? would they claim they can't use the other 2 with sufficient profficiency in their job applications? should any institution in the world employ 3 different translators just for the lulz when one would be enough?