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tennisbum79
Mar 30th, 2012, 09:49 PM
Like any organization that resists change and find any argument to justify their stand, the people at August have saying for year that their members are not ready to accept women membership.

Well a funny thing is about to happen.
IBM CEO, a major sponsor of the tournament is usually automatically accepted as member.


Usually, because, it turns out, except if the CEO is a woman.
Obviously, the folks at Augusta never though that far ahead. It never crossed their mind that a woman would some day become a CEO of IBM, since the last have been all men.


What do you think?

Out of curiosity, who do the current golfers have to say?
Especially Tiger Woods, Phil Michelson, but also all the other non-white American players.



CEO revives Augusta no-women membership debate



http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/03/30/Rometty_AP060216059901_620x350.jpg In this Feb. 16, 2006 file photo, Virginia Rometty, at the time an IBM senior vice president, speaks in New York. (AP Photo/Dima Gavrysh, File)







(CBS/AP) As a club that prides itself on tradition, Augusta National has unwittingly wound up in the middle of a membership debate it thought it was done with nearly a decade ago.


Just seven days before the Masters (http://www.cbssports.com/golf/tournaments/masters), no less.
The last four chief executives of IBM — a longtime corporate sponsor of the Masters — have been members of the exclusive golf club in Augusta, Ga. The latest CEO of the computer giant happens to be a woman. Virginia Rometty was appointed this year.
One problem — a woman has never worn a member's green jacket since Augusta National opened in 1933.
"I think they're both in a bind," Martha Burk said Thursday evening.




Masters: Burk among top 10 most influential people (http://www.cbssports.com/golf/storylist/18045008/3/masters-top-10-most-influential-people)
Burk spearheaded a campaign 10 years ago for the club to admit a female member, applying pressure on just about everyone connected with the club and with the Masters, the major championship that garners the highest TV ratings. She demanded that four companies drop their television sponsorship because of discrimination. She lobbied PGA Tour Commissioner Tim Finchem not to recognize the Masters as part of the tour schedule.


But it didn't work.
Hootie Johnson, chairman of the club back then, said Augusta might one day have a female member, but it would be on the club's timetable, and "not at the point of a bayonet." The protest fizzled in a parking lot down the street during the third round of the 2003 tournament.
Now it's back, and this time it has a face — Rometty, a 31-year veteran of IBM who has been ranked among the "50 Most Powerful Women in Business" by Fortune magazine the last seven years. Rometty was No. 7 last year.


What's the next step?
Augusta National declined to comment, keeping with its policy of not discussing membership issues. IBM has not commented publicly, and did not return a phone call Thursday night.


"IBM is in a bigger bind than the club," Burk said. "The club trashed their image years ago. IBM is a corporation. They ought to care about the brand, and they ought to care about what people think. And if they're not careful, they might undermine their new CEO."
Augusta has a new chairman in Billy Payne, who ran the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. When he replaced Johnson as chairman of the club and of the Masters tournament in 2006, he said there was "no specific timetable" for admitting women.




The question was raised at the 2007 and 2010 Masters. Both times, Payne said membership issues were private.
CBSports.com senior golf columnist Steve Elling says (http://www.cbssports.com/golf/blog/eye-on-golf/18109446/augusta-national-faces-potential-doublewhammy-with-membership-policy) Rometty provides Augusta National the perfect opportunity to end its policy for good. He predicts that Payne offers Rometty a membership -- a few days after the Masters ends next week.



"She shows up at the tournament in 2013 in green, after the gender issue has died down," Elling writes. "That way, the club avoids the appearance that Payne has been backed into a corner or forced into making an accommodation."


Elling: Augusta National faces potential double whammy with membership policy (http://www.cbssports.com/golf/blog/eye-on-golf/18109446/augusta-national-faces-potential-doublewhammy-with-membership-policy)
Rometty succeeds Sam Palmissano at IBM, which runs the Masters' website from the bottom floor of the media center. According to a list published by USA Today in 2002, the previous three CEOs also were members — Louis Gertsner, John Akers and John Open.
As the corporate sponsors became the target, Johnson wound up doing away with TV sponsorship for two years at the Masters to keep the corporate partners — IBM, Coca-Cola and Citigroup — out of the fray.




Only IBM returned as a TV sponsor for the 2005 Masters. The others were SBC Communications and ExxonMobil.
Burk said it should not be that easy for IBM to hide if the debate gains momentum.
"What IBM needs to do is draw a line in the sand — `We're either going to pull our sponsorship and membership and any ancillary activities we support with the tournament, or the club is going to have to honor our CEO the way they have in the past,"' Burk said. "There's no papering over it. They just need to step up and do the right thing.


"They need to not pull that argument that they support the tournament and not the club," she said. "That does not fool anybody, and they could undermine their new CEO."
Burk said she would not be surprised if IBM pressured Rometty to say she doesn't want to be a member.


"Really, I don't think it's her responsibility," Burk said. "It's the board of directors. They need to take action here. They don't need to put that on her. They need to say, `This is wrong. We thought the club was on the verge of making changes several years ago, and we regretfully end our sponsorship to maintain her credibility and the company brand.' "


The debate returns just in time for one of the most anticipated Masters in years. Tiger Woods finally returned to winning last week at Bay Hill and is considered one of the favorites, along with U.S. Open champion Rory McIlroy. Eight of the top 20 players in the world ranking have won heading into the first major of the year, a list that includes world No. 1 Luke Donald and Phil Mickelson.


Now comes a sensitive issue that dogged the tournament a decade ago, and might not go away easily.
Augusta National does not ban women. They can play the golf course, but no woman has worn an Augusta green jacket, a status symbol in business and golf. Rometty is said to play golf sparingly. Her greater passion is scuba diving.


She now becomes a central figure.
"We have a face, we have a resume, we have a title and we have a credible reason to do it that doesn't involve Martha Burk," Burk said.
Burk said she is no longer chair of the National Council of Women's Organizations. She had planned to step down until the first flap with the Masters began in the summer of 2002. Now, she said she runs the Corporate Accountability Project for the council, a project born from her battle with Augusta.




source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57407083/ceo-revives-augusta-no-women-membership-debate/

tennisbum79
Mar 31st, 2012, 06:49 AM
Pressure is also mounting on IBM and its board of directors, most of whom are probably men, to break is silence comment on the situation





Burk: Augusta Gender Issue Is Now I.B.M.’s



By LYNN ZINSER (http://www.tennisforum.com/author/lynn-zinser/) http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/03/30/sports/golf/30burk/30burk-articleInline.jpg
Doug Mills/The New York TimesMartha Burk in 2003.




For the second straight day, I.B.M. has taken the no-comment route on whether its new chief executive, Virginia M. Rometty, should be extended an invitation to join Augusta National (http://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/augustas-new-dilemma-a-woman-runs-i-b-m/?ref=sports) as I.B.M. chief executives traditionally have been. This is, of course, an issue because Augusta National has rather vehemently defended its male-only membership over the years and now that tradition clashes with an important corporate sponsor.




Neither Augusta National nor I.B.M. is willing to say anything about the topic, with both saying Augusta membership is a private matter for the club. But Martha Burk, who famously led a 2003 protest against Augusta’s exclusion of women, said she believes that I.B.M. has an obligation not to let Augusta slide on this.
“They have a moral obligation to their customers; they have a moral obligation to their new C.E.O.,” Burk said in a telephone interview Thursday. “I think the board of directors and Sam Palmisano has to tell Augusta National to extend membership to their new C.E.O. and if it doesn’t, they will pull the sponsorship,” she said, referring to the company’s chairman. “If they don’t, they are saying that the values of the club are the values of the company,” she said.


I.B.M. is one of three major sponsors of the Masters, hosted by Augusta National. Its past four chief executives — stretching back even further than the 10 years that I.B.M. has been a major sponsor — have been extended invitations, including Palmisano, who is Rometty’s predecessor. Rometty is a golfer, although she has said in interviews that she does not play frequently, but Augusta membership has long been as much of a business community as a golf one. Its members include business titans Warren Buffett and T. Boone Pickens as well as the chief executives of Augusta’s other two major sponsors: Rex Tillerson of Exxon Mobil and Randall Stephenson of AT&T.


This seems to put Augusta in its own crosshairs, which is much different from how the issue was framed in 2003 when Burk tried to publicly pressure the club for its male-only practices. Burk is now leading the corporate accountability project of the National Council of Women’s Organizations, helping women press sexual discrimination complaints against corporations. Her protest in 2003 did not succeed in pressuring Augusta to accept women, and when Billy Payne took over from club chairman Hootie Johnson in 2006, he promised to stick to the club’s traditions.




“Now they are in a bind and it’s of their own making,” Burk said. “Because they handled it in such a neanderthal way, it is calling them to account now.”
But, Burk said, the pressure is even greater on I.B.M., a public company with women as customers, managers and now a chief executive.
“Back in 2003, they tried to make this false distinction between Augusta the club and the Masters tournament,” Burk said. “But there is no distinction and their customers are not going to swallow that line. This is a moral imperative and so far, I.B.M. is not living up to it.”


Clearly, both sides would like some sort of quiet resolution to this, but the time for quiet may have passed.




source:http://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/burk-augusta-gender-issue-is-now-i-b-m-s/

Ryan
Mar 31st, 2012, 12:49 PM
Interesting issue, but I HATE how journalists will produce an entire article quoting only one person for 90% of it. Stories are going to be one-sided when the piece is basically a talking-point for one person's issue.

Still, hope they end the sexist membership junk soon.

tennisbum79
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:12 PM
Interesting issue, but I HATE how journalists will produce an entire article quoting only one person for 90% of it. Stories are going to be one-sided when the piece is basically a talking-point for one person's issue.

Still, hope they end the sexist membership junk soon.
I am not for unfairness in reporting, but quite frankly, I don't see how you can be balanced in reporting this story.

Augusta has had many years to make a change, but they keep repeating year after year, that they will not be pushed to do so, they will do on their own timetable.


We have seen this movie before, various groups in American society have been told at one time and another that the larger society was not ready for their acceptance.
That they should be patient.

tennisbum79
Apr 3rd, 2012, 10:58 PM
Although I am not singling out Tiger Woods and other minority in the PGA, I wish they would say something.
After all, just decades ago, men who look like them, were also forbidden from being members.

The only back people or Asian you found at Augusta were on the kitchen staff or part of ground keepers





Teeing off on Augusta National Golf Club's men-only policy



Few institutions revel in the reputation of being a dinosaur like Georgia's Augusta National Golf Club, host of the Masters Tournament (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/sports/golf/masters-tournament-EVSPR00003530.topic).


Augusta has never admitted a woman to membership and has even tried to portray its adamantine stance as a virtue: When activist Martha Burk launched a public challenge to its males-only membership policy in 2002, the club's then-chairman, Hootie Johnson, won plaudits (in some quarters) for declaring that although the club might admit women at some time in the future, it would not make a decision "at the point of a bayonet." It must be a long bayonet, because the club still hasn't budged.

For a decade the issue seemed to go away, but it may be hard to avoid now, on the eve of the 2012 Masters, which starts Thursday.

That's because the men-only tradition is about to clash with another, which is that chief executives of IBM (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/economy-business-finance/ibm-ORCRP008000.topic) end up on the membership rolls.
Whether they ask to join or are invited isn't clear, but at least the last four — John Opel, John Akers, Lou Gerstner and Sam Palmisano — have been members


As of Jan. 1, the CEO of IBM has been a woman. She's Virginia Rometty, whose service to the corporation dates back three decades.


This places Augusta and IBM in parallel quandaries. IBM has a very close relationship with Augusta and the Masters. It's a leading sponsor of the tournament telecast and provides the Masters with computing services. Its logo is plastered all over the tournament's website. Burk, among others, has already questioned whether IBM will stand silently by and wait for Rometty to ask for or be offered membership, whether it will decide to press the issue with Augusta, and what it will do, if anything, if the situation becomes a public embarrassment.


It's possible that the club might move now, with the issue being aired again as its signature tournament tees off. IBM hasn't spoken on the issue, and no one even knows whether Rometty wants to be a member.


But all that is immaterial: Augusta has maintained its indefensible men-only stance long past the point at which it should have joined the modern world. And even an abrupt about-face by the club wouldn't cleanse the hands of the public corporations that have chosen to play the role of enablers of Augusta's discrimination, such as IBM and tournament co-sponsors AT&T and Exxon Mobil (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/economy-business-finance/exxon-mobil-corporation-ORCRP005510.topic), for all those years. All three companies pay lip service (at least) to diversity (http://ibm.co/18JLgY) and corporate citizenship (http://bit.ly/H4Qjpf.). How can they justify promoting an enterprise that flouts those same principles?


Compare their behavior to the 1986 decree by Arco, then the largest corporation in Southern California, that it would no longer pay dues for executives at clubs that discriminated against women and minorities. The two downtown clubs that were most affected, the California and Jonathan clubs, altered their behavior pretty promptly.


Augusta and its apologists maintain that private organizations shouldn't be told whom they may or may not admit as a member. Augusta even has tried to elevate this position to the level of moral imperative. Hootie Johnson wrote in the Wall Street Journal in 2002 that "women's colleges like Smith and Wellesley, historically black colleges like Spelman, the Girl Scouts of America, the Junior League, fraternities and sororities" all "discriminate" in the same sense as Augusta and therefore "would all have to be dissolved or radically changed from the single-sex profile that has become an essential part of their character" if the golf club did not stand up for liberty. "Some things are worth defending," Johnson wrote.


Augusta's claim of principle would be more convincing, if marginally so, if its record of discrimination were not so lengthy and contemptible. The club opened in 1933 and didn't admit its first black member until 1990 (the honor went to a Virginia television executive). One can only hope that Augusta didn't pat itself on the back too strongly then for standing up for the principle of equality set forth by Martin Luther King Jr. (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/arts-culture/culture/martin-luther-king-jr.-PEHST001228.topic), since King had been dead for 22 years at the time. This is what made Johnson's claim in 2002 that Augusta provides an opportunity "for men of all backgrounds to seek a place and time for camaraderie with other men" reek of hypocrisy, for it hadn't been so long before then that a man's "background" had counted for a lot at Augusta.


It's worth remembering that Augusta National isn't merely a private organization. If it were just another ratty old golf club, no one would care about its membership rules. But it's a club that makes a special effort to recruit corporate CEOs and other luminaries as members to enhance its own luster, and it's the force behind a major public televised event that draws viewers from all over the world and advertisers from the highest echelons of commerce. With its perfectly groomed fairways and traditions of play, it represents something fine about the game of golf; the Masters telecast, on which commercials are limited, is the most appealing of golf's four majors. One might say that in becoming a lightning rod for criticism, it's the victim of its own success, but gee, that's tough. Sometimes if you want to be in the world spotlight you have to adjust your behavior to the mores of the modern world.


No one is telling Augusta how to treat any particular individual; but there's a big difference between applying a private selection process to particular persons and excluding half of the human race from any consideration at all. Nor does anyone maintain that Augusta has a legal obligation to observe diversity; the discussion is over the moral and intellectual component of its position, which is zero. George Orwell, in a famous 1945 essay, described anti-Semitism (http://bit.ly/bKmKAD) as a position that could not be held by a rational adult but was rather a form of neurosis. Surely the same goes for sexism.


CBS, which revels in its role as the longtime TV home of the Masters, and advertisers such as IBM are certainly responsible for helping Augusta perpetuate discrimination. But we should also blame the pro golfers who participate in the tournament. They're complicit too because what gives the Masters its cachet is that it fields the greatest players in the game. Here's a bet: The moment some of them register their displeasure by rejecting the coveted invitation, the club will begin to fold its hand. Phil Mickelson (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/sports/golf/phil-mickelson-PESPT005015.topic), Tiger Woods (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/sports/golf/tiger-woods-PESPT008527.topic), Hunter Mahan (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/sports/golf/hunter-mahan-PESPT0000010622.topic) — the ball's teed up. Will you remain as silent as your corporate sponsors?


source: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20120403,0,901197.column

wild.river
Apr 3rd, 2012, 11:13 PM
they're a private club. they shouldn't have to accept women if they don't want to.

at the same time, this is a snooty self-important bunch of old white dudes. why would a woman even want to join? i hope the ibm ceo turns it down if they offer her membership.

tennisbum79
Apr 4th, 2012, 12:00 AM
they're a private club. they shouldn't have to accept women if they don't want to.

at the same time, this is a snooty self-important bunch of old white dudes. why would a woman even want to join? i hope the ibm ceo turns it down if they offer her membership.
That is true, but it just does not look good. It is really an untenable position.
The tournament field now include all races and all shades of Europeans.




Why does the club that runs it still exclude these people.

They say the same thing about Jews, blacks, Asians and maybe some other shade of whites

Now I hope IBM withdraws sponsorship of the tournament


Yale University had such club where both John F. Kerry and George Walker Bush were members.
Evoking tradition or saying the members are not ready is just a poor excuse.

Melange
Apr 4th, 2012, 12:06 AM
Although I am not singling out Tiger Woods and other minority in the PGA, I wish they would say something.
After all, just decades ago, men who look like them, were also forbidden from being members.

The only back people or Asian you found at August were on the kitchen staff or part of grounder keepers

Its the membership issue which makes me totally uninterested in that event. I would not expect Tiger to make any attempts at leadership though. Considering his social interests, not many people are going to take his opinions on race issues seriously.

tennisbum79
Apr 4th, 2012, 12:19 AM
Its the membership issue which makes me totally uninterested in that event. I would not expect Tiger to make any attempts at leadership though. Considering his social interests, not many people are going to take his opinions on race issues seriously.
Unfortunately, you are correct.
Besides Tiger, there is Anthony Kim, but his profile is not be high enough to make a dent.


Or he could be just quiet to stay out of trouble with sponsors

*JR*
Apr 4th, 2012, 12:35 AM
they're a private club. they shouldn't have to accept women if they don't want to.

at the same time, this is a snooty self-important bunch of old white dudes. why would a woman even want to join? i hope the ibm ceo turns it down if they offer her membership.

Don't pick on us white 50-somethings, I'll bet Brantford Gurl is still a hot piece! :p



They say the same thing about Jews, blacks, Asians and maybe some other shade of whites

Now I hope IBM withdraws sponsorship of the tournament

And that CBS :shout: (whose affiliates all use the public airwaves for free) stops televising it! :cool: If Wiesy had ever achieved her teenage goals of succeeding on the PGA tour (she can't even win in the LPGA (http://missmichellewie.com/tournaments.htm) :o) she could have become a member. Or if Annika had made the cut @ PGA events like the 2002 Colonial, especially if the Super Swede had become an American citizen.

And back when, Augusta National could have covered three bases (blacks, Jews, and the visually impaired) by admitting Sammy Davis, Jr. :tape: In terms of "some other shade of whites" in your post, would John Boehner (http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/03/john_boehner_orange.jpg) do? :devil:

tennisbum79
Apr 4th, 2012, 02:44 AM
And that CBS :shout: (whose affiliates all use the public airwaves for free) stops televising it! :cool: If Wiesy had ever achieved her teenage goals of succeeding on the PGA tour (she can't even win in the LPGA (http://missmichellewie.com/tournaments.htm) :o) she could have become a member. Or if Annika had made the cut @ PGA events like the 2002 Colonial, especially if the Super Swede had become an American citizen.
I think if it does not change, women group will put pressure on CBS.

Back to IBM, I read somewhere that it is really the role of IBM board of directors to make a statement, it does not have to be public, but it must be a stern statement to Augusta.

:lol::lol:CBS news division could really go rogue, by having a segment on this topic on "60 minutes" and promoting it during the Saturday and Sunday play.:lol::lol:
But it won't happen

ptkten
Apr 4th, 2012, 04:34 AM
The Masters don't have to allow women in the club, they are a private club and can do what they want.

However, if they do not allow women, organizations such as the PGA should stop having one of its majors there and IBM should stop sponsoring the major or else both organizations are complicit in the sexism and should be called out for being sexist organizations. It's a privilege to host a major, not a right. Let's see how long the Masters would continue not allowing women if the PGA decided to stop holding their major event there.

Halardfan
Apr 4th, 2012, 06:38 AM
We should fight injustice against women wherever it occurs in the world, including this case.

tennisbum79
Apr 4th, 2012, 12:49 PM
We should fight injustice against women wherever it occurs in the world, including this case.
Well, people in the West do not see this as an injustice, it is cast as private right of assembly.

The trouble here is, Augusta is using free public airwave (which belongs to all races and both genders) via CBS to promote their tournament and make money.
Politicians are notorious for using this excuse when they are caught.

Ironically, you'll probably find members of of this club teeling anyone who want to listen that they support a number women causes here and abroad, as a way to extricate themselves or get a passs from this practice.

Halardfan
Apr 4th, 2012, 01:04 PM
Well, people in the West do not see this as an injustice, it is cast as private right of assembly.

The trouble here is, Augusta is using free public airwave (which belongs to all races and both genders) via CBS to promote their tournament and make money.
Politicians are notorious for using this excuse when they are caught.

Ironically, you'll probably find members of of this club teeling anyone who want to listen that they support a number women causes here and abroad, as a way to extricate themselves or get a passs from this practice.

Some conservatives will speak loudly about Women's rights in Islamic nations but when it comes to women's rights in their own nations, they are themselves regressive.

However equally some liberals are happy to call out western organisations for sexist practices, but are reluctant to take some Islamic nations to task for even worse practices.

Just I think we should condemn such things without fear or favour, at home and abroad.

Melange
Apr 4th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Well, people in the West do not see this as an injustice, it is cast as private right of assembly.

The trouble here is, Augusta is using free public airwave (which belongs to all races and both genders) via CBS to promote their tournament and make money.
Politicians are notorious for using this excuse when they are caught.

Ironically, you'll probably find members of of this club teeling anyone who want to listen that they support a number women causes here and abroad, as a way to extricate themselves or get a passs from this practice.

they will say how much they actually like women and some of them are married to or friends with women

tennisbum79
Apr 4th, 2012, 07:25 PM
Augusta's answer is still " this is a private matter."
CNN just showed a video clip.







AUGUSTA, Georgia, April 4 (Reuters) - The prickly issue of

whether women should be allowed to join the exclusive all-male
Augusta National Golf Club refuses to go away.


On the eve of the Masters (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/sports/golf/masters-tournament-EVSPR00003530.topic), chairman Billy Payne was again
peppered with questions about whether the 80-year-old club would
change its restrictive policy.


In keeping with the club's secretive traditions, he refused
to provide a clear answer when asked repeatedly by the media,
saying only that membership issues were not for public debate.

"Once again, that deals with a membership issue and I'm not
going to answer it," he told a news conference on Wednesday.



The issue of whether women should be allowed to become a
member at the home of the Masters has been around for years -
most notably a decade ago when Martha Burk led a series of
protests - but took on added significance after Ginni Rometty
was recently named Chief Executive Officer of IBM (http://www.tennisforum.com/topic/economy-business-finance/ibm-ORCRP008000.topic).


IBM, the world's largest technology services company, is a
long-standing sponsor of the Masters and its past four CEO's




source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-golf-masterswomen-pix-tvl3e8f472e-20120404,0,7183619.story

edificio
Apr 4th, 2012, 08:43 PM
They need to change their policies.

Raiden
Apr 5th, 2012, 03:20 PM
they're a private club. they shouldn't have to accept women if they don't want to+1

Joining a private group or association is not a right but an allowance - a chance or an opportunity.

So it's a bit deceptive and misleading of the sanctimonious OP to insinuate that someone is being denied their right cuz that is just not the case.

Expat
Apr 5th, 2012, 04:29 PM
If they want to be a club for men more power to them. They have every right to do so under our constitution.

Sally Struthers
Apr 5th, 2012, 04:36 PM
I feel like they can do what they want.

I'll still watch the Masters, which is consistently the best tournament of the year.

tennisbum79
Apr 5th, 2012, 10:25 PM
+1

Joining a private group or association is not a right but an allowance - a chance or an opportunity.

So it's a bit deceptive and misleading of the sanctimonious OP to insinuate that someone is being denied their right cuz that is just not the case.
They are using public airwaves that belong to all Americans, of all gender and races.


Once they excluded blacks, Jews (and probably other non-Anglo-Saxon whites, Italians, Greeks), and Asians using that same justification.



Yes it is not a right, but common decency dictates it is an untenable position in these times.
I think this debate has moved passed the view you hold.


I understand it is a matter of principles and/or tradition, but there are times when principle and/or tradition look archaic and retrograde.

Raiden
Apr 5th, 2012, 11:35 PM
They are using public airwaves that belong to all Americans, of all gender and races.CBS is a PRIVATE corporation that PAID Augusta National to obtain the rights to broadcast the event.

Once they excluded blacks, Jews (and probably other non-Anglo-Saxon whites, Italians, Greeks), and Asians...Once upon a time all top golfers were white. But later on for practical reasons the club had to change it's admission policy (read: they noticed the likes of Tiger Woods emerging into the scene).

Yes it is not a right, but common decency dictates it is an untenable position in these times.9 Years ago they said it was untenable and yet the club prevailed. You may first have to shutdown all those women-only organizations, sororities, girl scouts, and women-only gyms before you can claim that the situation at Augusta National is "untenable".

Why not just politely ask the club to let women become members? Whatever happened to making normal requests and asking favors (fully recognizing the club's rights)? I believe this would probably have a greater chance of success than attempting to bully them into submission under inapplicable & false (equal rights) pretenses. I mean I don't "demand" that people let me into their homes, do you?

tennisbum79
Apr 5th, 2012, 11:45 PM
Rubbish.

CBS is a PRIVATE corporation that PAID Augusta National to obtain the rights to broadcast the event.

They did that on account that once upon a time they could afford to do that since all top golfers were white. But later on for practical reasons they had to change their admission policy (read: they noticed the likes of Tiger Woods emerging into the scene).
I don't think it was because of Tiger Woods, there were black, Mexicans in the PGA before Tiger.
Let's say you are right it was because of Tiger, why open it to Jews?

It was an untenable position, whether you like the word or not.

9 Years ago they said it was untenable and yet the club prevailed. You may first have to shutdown all those women-only organizations, sororities, girl scouts, and women-only gyms before you can claim that the situation at Augusta National is "untenable".

Time is not on their side.

I'd rather that people just politely ask the club to let women be members. Whatever happend to making a normal request and asking favors? I believe that would probably have a greater chance of success than attempting to bully them into submission.
You can count on 1 hand changes that come by asking politely.


No group has ever happily ceded its privilege, voluntarily.
Invariably, they have done so grudgingly when they came to the realization that their position/beliefs have become untenable(yes that word again) compared to the rest of the society. Like explaining to their daughters why hold the beliefs they do.


Outside pressure, embarrassment, shame, contrasting the organization with the rest of the society are great tools.

Halardfan
Apr 6th, 2012, 12:18 AM
There is controversy over Saudi Arabia's decision not to endorse any female members of an Olympic team for London.

Women's groups are calling for a ban on the Saudi team.

I think the behaviour of Augusta and the Saudi's can't be tolerated in the 21st century.

Time to break down the barriers to women wherever they occur.

wild.river
Apr 7th, 2012, 07:18 PM
Yes it is not a right, but common decency dictates it is an untenable position in these times.

you were an advocate for the chicago male urban prep school not accepting girls. and education is more of a "right" than golfing.
why take the opposite stance here? :scratch:

tennisbum79
Apr 7th, 2012, 09:37 PM
you were an advocate for the chicago male urban prep school not accepting girls. and education is more of a "right" than golfing.
why take the opposite stance here? :scratch:
Not exactly, I responded to 2 issues in that thread

Issue 1: Some posters thought it was discriminatory on the basis of race.
I simple told them to check the mission statement of the school.

Issue 2: Other posters made the argument single sex-school isolate student form half of the world population inferring they would be unprepared for the real world after graduation.
I gave examples to contrary, highly accomplished women who graduated from single-sex college


I don't call that advocating.

pov
Apr 8th, 2012, 04:02 AM
Augusta's answer is still " this is a private matter."

:yeah: It is a private matter. In the same way there are all-boy and all-girl private schools. The idea that everything is supposed to be all-inclusive is not what equal rights is about. My guess is that Augusta will - sadly - bow to pressure at some point.

HippityHop
Apr 8th, 2012, 07:41 PM
I must say that I find all of this hand wringing over a bunch of rich men getting together in a private club to be a bit silly. Why not demand that poor people be able to join?

<snip>
But HuffPost has pieced together a pretty good idea of the amount. In a 2009 Golf World story, Ron Sirak took a detailed look at the club and got inside sources, including an anonymous member, to cough up a few ballpark figures. Turns out that membership runs in the "low five figures" and annual dues amount to "a few thousand dollars," according to the article. A recent BusinessInsider story put the annual dues at $10,000. Either way, the dues plus the $10,000 to $30,000 initiation are still a blade of grass on a fairway that spans a galaxy for members like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and T. Boone Pickens.

But if it makes the 99 percent feel any better, there are plenty of rich folks elsewhere paying through the nose to swing clubs on well-manicured lawns and sip martinis in fancy clubhouses.

The Bridge in Bridgehampton, N.Y., charged a whopping $750,000 to join, according to a 2007 Wall Street Journal article. Another Hamptons club, Sebonack Golf Club, billed new members for $650,000 when it opened in 2006, Bloomberg reported.

On the other coast, Shady Canyon Country Club in Irvine, Calif., was getting $300,000 in membership and $1,195 in monthly dues in 2007, according to Southland Golf Magazine.

That's a relative bargain, but we'll just wait for our invitation from Augusta.

The whole article is here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/masters-tournament-2012-augusta-cost_n_1402990.html?ref=business