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guichard
Mar 29th, 2012, 09:45 PM
The WTA admitted Thursday that grunting is a problem in women's tennis but is throwing in the towel when it comes to the current crop of offenders, choosing to concentrate instead on future generations

In board meetings during the weekend at the Sony Ericsson Open in Key Biscayne, Fla., tour leadership agreed to focus on education and enforcement of existing rules for up-and-coming players.

STORY: Sharapova knocks off Wozniacki
The WTA said that after consulting with experts such as Nick Bollettieri it would be unfair to make current pros alter their breathing mechanics.

"Excessive grunting is a problem, and we are determined to address it, working in concert with the entire tennis family including coaches, academies and the (International Tennis Federation) among others," the WTA said in a statement provided to USA TODAY. "It was also agreed that it would not be fair to force the current generation of players to in effect learn how to play tennis all over again. We have been advised by experts that if we try to suddenly undo years of training, it will have an adverse affect on the ability of these players to play tennis." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/story/2012-03-29/wta-targets-next-generation-to-quiet-grunting/53870848/1

nfl46
Mar 29th, 2012, 09:49 PM
Make sense. Sorry but the top players aren't going to stop grunting if they have been doing it for 10+ years. Target the younger kids and make sure they don't pick up on this behavior. I can understand doing it during intense plays, but throughout the whole match is a little ridiculous.

Tenis Srbija
Mar 29th, 2012, 09:50 PM
Oh dear, this again. What, will the umpire stop the match every time a newby grunts too loud? Will there be a specialist for the magnitude of the players grunts? :lol:

Markus
Mar 29th, 2012, 09:50 PM
Oh my - The world seems really perfect when there is time to discuss
grunting babes on a tennis court....

hingisGOAT
Mar 29th, 2012, 09:52 PM
As if the players would have to "learn to play all over again"! LOL. Give me a break, the worst offenders (Maria, Vika, Venus) have played plenty of matches where they mysteriously forgot to grunt.

Wiggly
Mar 29th, 2012, 11:16 PM
The thing is that Azarenka may be a top player for the next 5-6 years.
You can't tell a 18 years old junior to be quiet.

I'm looking forward to see some changes in 10 years. How nice. :rolleyes:

The entire Tour get bashed because Azarenka and Sharapova are quite noisy.
Having Azarenka as #1 will hurt the Tour if she keep this up.

I pathetic to watch such weak management.

Kipling
Mar 29th, 2012, 11:25 PM
As if the players would have to "learn to play all over again"! LOL. Give me a break, the worst offenders (Maria, Vika, Venus) have played plenty of matches where they mysteriously forgot to grunt.

This.

What a cop out.

Shrieking like that whenever they feel like it is gamesmanship, pure and simple, and allowing them to get away with that shit is tarnishing the game.

Steff_forever
Mar 29th, 2012, 11:47 PM
As if the players would have to "learn to play all over again"! LOL. Give me a break, the worst offenders (Maria, Vika, Venus) have played plenty of matches where they mysteriously forgot to grunt.
thanks, just to reapeat this sentence.

There are times in most intenense and physical most demanding moments when even Masha and Vee started to be calm and just hit the ball without a roar. The shrieking/roaring etc. is not even close to support breathing considering these moments
(IMHO)

start to make pressure on the current professionals dear player developers...

Sianta
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:45 AM
As much as I'd like to see something done to make watching the current crop of players bearable, at least it's something. Let's just hope they follow through with it.

RenaSlam.
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:01 AM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt? If you're a professional tennis player it shouldn't bother you if you're focused and as for the fans...deal with it.

metamorpha
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:15 AM
Yeah, it's about time. Excessive grunting that causes noise pollution should be eradicated.

DefyingGravity
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:16 AM
The men can grunt rather loud as well.

Raiden
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:17 AM
WTA targets future grunters, leaves today's in peaceBasically the WTA goons are inadvertently admitting that the rules against gamesmanship were being breached all along! Busted!

pov
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:28 AM
The whiners have taken over the world!

Lulu.
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:30 AM
The men can grunt rather loud as well.

Exactly. Wonder when and if that will be addressed.

darrinbaker00
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:47 AM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt? If you're a professional tennis player it shouldn't bother you if you're focused and as for the fans...deal with it.

You don't play tennis, do you?

darrinbaker00
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:48 AM
Exactly. Wonder when and if that will be addressed.

When enough people complain about it, just like with the women.

Protoss
Mar 30th, 2012, 05:24 AM
The tour lacks the guts to do something about the shrieking now. :(

bulava
Mar 30th, 2012, 08:07 AM
Grunting in tennis is nothing new

Looks at the list: Connors, Seles, Agassi, Sharapova, William Sisters, Vika...
http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-opinion/6697603/commentary-grunting-tennis-new

But I read a few stories which were deliberately 'made' as if only Vika and Masha grunt :confused:

Shivank17
Mar 30th, 2012, 08:26 AM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt? If you're a professional tennis player it shouldn't bother you if you're focused and as for the fans...deal with it.

This.

FleetSeb
Mar 30th, 2012, 09:10 AM
I've played against grunters. It's such a non-issue. If you're focused on the match it doesn't even distract you.

People that complain about the grunting generally are too concerned with that to actually watch the tennis on show. I know what I consider more important in a match, don't understand how people calling themselves real tennis fans can be so concerned with such a peripheral thing, if they liked tennis so much they would just focus on that.

stromatolite
Mar 30th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Everybody should read the countless other threads on this topic, this has been discussed exhaustively. Better still, read stuff written by people who have actually looked into the issue in a serious way, it's not hard to find. Nobody seems to have taken any information from these threads or this literature on board, because already the same old cliches are being wheeled out with nothing to support them other than people's own prejudices (e.g. grunting doesn't bother me ergo it's not a problem).

Meelis
Mar 30th, 2012, 12:26 PM
Good luck explaining the youngsters why they should be quiet, while their idols don´t.

Brena
Mar 30th, 2012, 12:36 PM
Basically the WTA goons are inadvertently admitting that the rules against gamesmanship were being breached all along! Busted!

Exactly. And they are not doing anything now because Sharapova brings way too much money to everybody involved. If it was only Azarenka &co, they'd be smacked on the gob by the WTA, they'd shut up or tone it down, and end of story. I expect WTA to introduce some new rules only after Sharapova retires.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 30th, 2012, 01:43 PM
The men can grunt rather loud as well.

this

Jane Lane
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:10 PM
The men can grunt rather loud as well.

This.

Exactly. Wonder when and if that will be addressed.

And this.

Grunting in tennis is nothing new

Looks at the list: Connors, Seles, Agassi, Sharapova, William Sisters, Vika...
http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-opinion/6697603/commentary-grunting-tennis-new

But I read a few stories which were deliberately 'made' as if only Vika and Masha grunt :confused:

This too. This is nothing new. The same old recycled hash over and over again. The hilarity of it all is I've seen a lot of the ones complaining have Seles as one of their faves.

Although :rolls: at the fact that article says Novak doesn't grunt. Hooookay. And the fact they don't mention Nadal either but it is what it is.

Maria rocks
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:12 PM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt? If you're a professional tennis player it shouldn't bother you if you're focused and as for the fans...deal with it.

SPOT ON!!!!

LoveFifteen
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:14 PM
As if the players would have to "learn to play all over again"! LOL. Give me a break, the worst offenders (Maria, Vika, Venus) have played plenty of matches where they mysteriously forgot to grunt.

This.

It's amazing how Vika, Sharapova, et al, can practice without shrieking.

stromatolite
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Good luck explaining the youngsters why they should be quiet, while their idols don´t.

Very astute observation!

Beat
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt?

is there aynthing more hackneyed than the "who cares?" phrase? obviously enough people do, otherwise it wouldn't be an ongoing issue.

Slutiana
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:19 PM
This too. This is nothing new. The same old recycled hash over and over again. The hilarity of it all is I've seen a lot of the ones complaining have Seles as one of their faves.
Yup. This whole grunting issue is completely media-driven. Whenever the media decides to make it a huge issue, everyone is suddenly all up-in-arms over it. Whenever they get bored of it, nobody gives a fuck.
This.

It's amazing how Vika, Sharapova, et al, can practice without shrieking.
It's amazing how few people seem to understand the difference between practice and matches.

Beny
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:21 PM
As if the players would have to "learn to play all over again"! LOL. Give me a break, the worst offenders (Maria, Vika, Venus) have played plenty of matches where they mysteriously forgot to grunt.

Exactly.

Mysteriously, almost every time Venus plays Serena, her massive grunting disappears :eek: :rolleyes:

Grunting is a habit, nothing natural in their lungs or anything like that. If they offered the grunters 1 billion USD/match if they shut up, we would be seeing the good old tennis without shrieking, grunting and stuff...

Beny
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Well, you can stop drinking, smoking...it´s tough but possible. So they can also give up their bad habit and play without screaming their lungs out

Sharapowerr
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:23 PM
What can they do about it, ban Maria,Vika and the WS? What will be left than?

Beny
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Yup. This whole grunting issue is completely media-driven. Whenever the media decides to make it a huge issue, everyone is suddenly all up-in-arms over it. Whenever they get bored of it, nobody gives a fuck.

It's amazing how few people seem to understand the difference between practice and matches.

It´s amazing how much you can overrate the intensity in matches vs. in practice.

Clijsters recently said that no match of hers is more intense than what she does in practice. She gives 100% in practice. And yet, she is as quiet as a mouse on the court.

It's not like players are only chatting on the benches all the time during the practice session :rolleyes:
They have to practise intensively to be able to do the same in a real match

LoveFifteen
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:31 PM
It's amazing how few people seem to understand the difference between practice and matches.

The mechanics and technique are the same, and many players give quite a bit on the court during their practices. Have you ever been to a tournament to watch the players practice? The women play against men, for Pete's sake, which means they're taking it seriously. I understand needing to grunt/shriek a few times during a match when you are REALLY, REALLY exerting yourself, but these fakers shriek on every damn shot, even serves, dropshots, lobs, volleys, etc. It's absurd.

stromatolite
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:34 PM
What can they do about it, ban Maria,Vika and the WS? What will be left than?

This statement is so wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to begin to respond. I don't have reason to slight these women because of your ignorant statement, so I'll suffice to say that (a) famous grunters don't make grunting right any more than famous drunk-drivers make drunk driving okay; (b) nobody is indispensible, the WTA would survive just fine without these women, and (c) the discussion is about banning grunting, not players.

Slutiana
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:40 PM
Exactly.

Mysteriously, almost every time Venus plays Serena, her massive grunting disappears :eek: :rolleyes:

Grunting is a habit, nothing natural in their lungs or anything like that. If they offered the grunters 1 billion USD/match if they shut up, we would be seeing the good old tennis without shrieking, grunting and stuff...
Erm, no...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeLVGy27AVg#t=3m29s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fkqnl9Tg3Q#t=1m27s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEEsq5xTqJw#t=6m17s

The Dawntreader
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:47 PM
A grunt is a grunt. Seriously, people talk about these players's grunting akin to them killing their children. It's not an issue at all.

It's typical of fans and critics to get baited by the media and then get ridiculously carried away.

Slutiana
Mar 30th, 2012, 02:53 PM
It´s amazing how much you can overrate the intensity in matches vs. in practice.

Clijsters recently said that no match of hers is more intense than what she does in practice. She gives 100% in practice. And yet, she is as quiet as a mouse on the court.

It's not like players are only chatting on the benches all the time during the practice session :rolleyes:
They have to practise intensively to be able to do the same in a real match
The mechanics and technique are the same, and many players give quite a bit on the court during their practices. Have you ever been to a tournament to watch the players practice? The women play against men, for Pete's sake, which means they're taking it seriously. I understand needing to grunt/shriek a few times during a match when you are REALLY, REALLY exerting yourself, but these fakers shriek on every damn shot, even serves, dropshots, lobs, volleys, etc. It's absurd.

Any tennis player will tell you that it is impossible to replicate mid-match conditions in a mere practice; regardless of how hard they try in practice and practice matches, there's just nothing on the line and nothing that forces them to push themselves - both physically and mentally - to the very limit. And it's in those tense, tight and most demanding moments where both the female and male grunters are at their loudest.

And contrary to popular belief, grunting isn't simply about breathing. It's a combination of breathing, releasing energy, nerves, tension, rhythm, fatigue and countless other factors, which is why it is so tough to intentionally stop.

Apoleb
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:00 PM
^ It's not like those screamers are trying their hardest at every single point in the match or playing at ridiculously high intensity all the time. It's clearly an artifact they chose to pursue during matches.

Anyway, it's simple. Those absurd, ridiculous screamers 1) hurt my ears and annoy countless other observers. You can scream loud here and there, but as Oracene would say "but all the time". I want to watch tennis not get my ears blown away 2) most definitely is a very serious form of hindrance. You cannot pretend that this ridiculous level of shrieking has no effect on your opponent's concentration.

ptkten
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:06 PM
It's so strange to me that people are so affected by the grunts. As a fan, I don't care either way if a player grunts but often times it actually adds to the intensity of the match which can make it seem more exciting. As a player, I don't really grunt but I'm not affected by others grunting at all, I don't even notice it, so I don't understand the outrage on that end either. I think people just look for something to complain about.

LoveFifteen
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:12 PM
It's so strange to me that people are so affected by the grunts. As a fan, I don't care either way if a player grunts but often times it actually adds to the intensity of the match which can make it seem more exciting. As a player, I don't really grunt but I'm not affected by others grunting at all, I don't even notice it, so I don't understand the outrage on that end either. I think people just look for something to complain about.

I understand you aren't bothered or affected by it, but a lot of people are, including me. Jon Wertheim isn't bothered by grunting, but he gets loads and loads of emails about people who give up on women's tennis because of the shrieking. Our sport isn't even that popular compared to others, and a lot of potential fans are turned off because of the shrieking. It's simply not necessary. So many of the game's legends who hit the ball insanely hard and well (Federer, Sampras, Graf, etc.), didn't need to shriek to hit blisteringly powerful groundstrokes, but Kirilenko's pathetic pushing requires orgasmic shrieks? :unsure:

Slutiana
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:17 PM
^ It's not like those screamers are trying their hardest at every single point in the match or playing at ridiculously high intensity all the time. It's clearly an artifact they chose to pursue during matches.

Anyway, it's simple. Those absurd, ridiculous screamers 1) hurt my ears and annoy countless other observers. You can scream loud here and there, but as Oracene would say "but all the time". I want to watch tennis not get my ears blown away 2) most definitely is a very serious form of hindrance. You cannot pretend that this ridiculous level of shrieking has no effect on your opponent's concentration.
You're right - they're not at 100% intensity every second, but that's when they tend to be quieter and sometimes even silent. And that's when people - without fail - think they're all smart and say "see, they don't have to grunt all the time. Clearly it is put on. Ha ha." :shrug:

I can actually see why people have a problem with Azarenka's grunt. It's a shrill noise produced in her head/falsetto which isn't even the part of the voice that people normally use when exerting energy. When she really is being pushed, it often comes down to her normal voice and only then can you hear/see her straining.

However, it's different with the likes of Maria and Venus. Criticizing Maria's tennis is one thing, but please don't insult my intelligence by telling me that Maria isn't killing herself out there for every point, and that you can't see and hear her doing so. She is so unathletic that every step and shot has more to do with her willing herself to each ball than her actual muscles. :lol:

Apoleb
Mar 30th, 2012, 03:25 PM
You're right - they're not at 100% intensity every second, but that's when they tend to be quieter and sometimes even silent. And that's when people - without fail - think they're all smart and say "see, they don't have to grunt all the time. Clearly it is put on. Ha ha." :shrug:

I can actually see why people have a problem with Azarenka's grunt. It's a shrill noise produced in her head/falsetto which isn't even the part of the voice that people normally use when exerting energy. When she really is being pushed, it often comes down to her normal voice and only then can you hear/see her straining.

However, it's different with the likes of Maria and Venus. Criticizing Maria's tennis is one thing, but please don't insult my intelligence by telling me that Maria isn't killing herself out there for every point, and that you can't see and hear her doing so. She is so unathletic that every step and shot has more to do with her willing herself to each ball than her actual muscles. :lol:

Yeah even Maria can afford to lose 40 db of that grunt without hampering her intensity on every point. Anyway, I don't agree with that practice analogy, think they are 100% faking it or that it's easy for them to change. Still doesn't mean that it should be there or that we should tolerate it.

ivanban
Mar 30th, 2012, 09:34 PM
So, they openly admit that till now coaches were instructing/supporting their players to make fake grunts/screams and if they're forced now to stop faking it - it would hamper their game :spit: :tape: :help:

franklinbouvier
Mar 30th, 2012, 11:30 PM
A player grunting when taking an intense shot is fine. There are players out there screaming on every point like someone's just put a 10inch dick up their ass.

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 12:09 AM
Sharapova in practice is also shrieking, and on the run she shrieks always significantly louder

In practice session she does not run too much from corner to corner, thus helping some trolls accuse of fake shrieking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638mfkoDfr8&feature=relmfu

bobito
Mar 31st, 2012, 12:39 AM
In board meetings during the weekend at the Sony Ericsson Open in Key Biscayne, Fla., tour leadership agreed to focus on education and enforcement of existing rules for up-and-coming players.

I suppose we can take that as an admission that screaming is a clear breach of the Hindrance Rule.

"It was also agreed that it would not be fair to force the current generation of players to in effect learn how to play tennis all over again.

Isn't it more important to be fair to those players who play the game fairly and by the rules? Surely there is nothing unfair about stopping a cheat from cheating.

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 12:56 AM
I suppose we can take that as an admission that screaming is a clear breach of the Hindrance Rule.

No, we can take it as an admission that screaming can be irritating for some tennis fans :) The WTA statement does not imply what you've said at all

bobito
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:07 AM
No, we can take it as an admission that screaming can be irritating for some tennis fans :) The WTA statement does not imply what you've said at all

How could "enforcement of existing rules" be a method of dealing with screaming unless it is already against existing rules?

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:12 AM
How could "enforcement of existing rules" be a method of dealing with screaming unless it is already against existing rules?

pls find a statement in the existing rules, that the player is forbidden to scream at the moment he/she is hitting the ball

gc-spurs
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:19 AM
I understand you aren't bothered or affected by it, but a lot of people are, including me. Jon Wertheim isn't bothered by grunting, but he gets loads and loads of emails about people who give up on women's tennis because of the shrieking. Our sport isn't even that popular compared to others, and a lot of potential fans are turned off because of the shrieking. It's simply not necessary. So many of the game's legends who hit the ball insanely hard and well (Federer, Sampras, Graf, etc.), didn't need to shriek to hit blisteringly powerful groundstrokes, but Kirilenko's pathetic pushing requires orgasmic shrieks? :unsure:

Yeah right. Beautiful assumption. I'll give you a chance to back it up. Go on :)

antonella
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:47 AM
Sharapova in practice is also shrieking, and on the run she shrieks always significantly louder

In practice session she does not run too much from corner to corner, thus helping some trolls accuse of fake shrieking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638mfkoDfr8&feature=relmfu

I think that's called the Doppler Effect.

Johnny Mac's antics lead to the use of MacCams. Get ready for a whole new line of Mashameters or Vikameters that line judges will use to record decibel violations.

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 01:54 AM
I think that's called the Doppler Effect.

Johnny Mac's antics lead to the use of MacCams. Get ready for a whole new line of Mashameters or Vikameters that line judges will use to record decibel violations.


WTA confirmed that new rules regarding shrieking(if they are imposed) will not affect present generation of players

It is clear for me . End of story

ivanban
Mar 31st, 2012, 08:22 AM
pls find a statement in the existing rules, that the player is forbidden to scream at the moment he/she is hitting the ball

It's called hindrance, honey :wavey:

bobito
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:01 AM
pls find a statement in the existing rules, that the player is forbidden to scream at the moment he/she is hitting the ball

Gladly, here you are:

WTA Rules

"H. HINDRANCE RULE
If a player hinders her opponent, it can be ruled as either involuntary or deliberate.

1. Involuntary Hindrance

A let should be called the first time a player has created an involuntary
hindrance (e.g., ball falling out of pocket, hat falling off, etc.), and the
player should be told that any such hindrance thereafter will be ruled
deliberate.

2. Deliberate Hindrance

Any hindrance caused by a player that is ruled deliberate will result in
the loss of a point."

Since a number of players past and present (Navratilova, Evert, Tauziet, Jankovic, Radwanska, Wozniacki among others) have stated that an opponent's screaming does present a hindrance then this rule applies.

WTA confirmed that new rules regarding shrieking(if they are imposed) will not affect present generation of players

It is clear for me . End of story

Then perhaps you should read it again. They are not proposing to introduce any new rules but to enforce the existing rule, ie the Hindrance Rule. Whether you like it or not, this ammounts to an admition by the WTA that players who scream when they hit the ball have not been playing the game fairly within the existing rules.

vma
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:31 AM
pls find a statement in the existing rules, that the player is forbidden to scream at the moment he/she is hitting the ball
hindrance? :shrug:

traralgon
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:37 AM
Grunting doesn't b other me. I grew up watching grunters so it's almost like part of the game for me.

vma
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:42 AM
Who the fuck cares if they grunt? If you're a professional tennis player it shouldn't bother you if you're focused and as for the fans...deal with it.

Apparently, professional players get bothered A LOT during matches. If not, why do all of them refuse to start serving when they see someone moving in the stands?

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:44 AM
I think it's worth mentioning that it isn't necessary to prove that the opponent has actually been hindered to enforce the hindrance rule, just that it is a deliberate act that could plausibly do so. The fact that players can turn it on or off shows that it is deliberate, and in case the fact that the noise generated is at a volume comparable to a lawnmower, jackhammer or motorcycle isn't enough to prove the plausibility of hindrance, the complaints by a growing number of players and ex-players should be. In fact, the only reason the rule isn't already being enforced is because earlier generations of officials were sleeping on the job and failed to nip it in the bud when it first started. Since then successive generations of officials have followed the lead of their predecessors and maintained this illogical exemption from the normal laws of tennis.

JamieOwen3
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:51 AM
Ooooh goody ANOTHER thread about grunting. *Reads through previous posts, sees fk all new just the same comments* It's like the butterfly effect....

http://data.whicdn.com/images/19887024/bjef5i_large.gif

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:54 AM
^Your gif on the other hand is refresshingly new and original

JamieOwen3
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:56 AM
So is your reply :wavey:

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:58 AM
^This is great, we could go on all day. Unfortunately I urgently have to cut my toenails

gc-spurs
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:59 AM
^ I have the urgent need to eat them

JamieOwen3
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:01 AM
This is how i see it. exept the complainers seem to have bad h2h against the grunters.... :rolleyes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZoHBGHgvvfI/Tn-fkNFv1pI/AAAAAAAACIE/Dir6lD7fHTI/s320/51254%252520-%252520Apple_family%252520apple_bloom%252520applej ack%252520artistmegasweet%252520big_macintosh%2525 20human%252520humanized%252520vidya.jpg

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:08 AM
This is how i see it. exept the complainers seem to have bad h2h against the grunters.... :rolleyes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZoHBGHgvvfI/Tn-fkNFv1pI/AAAAAAAACIE/Dir6lD7fHTI/s320/51254%252520-%252520Apple_family%252520apple_bloom%252520applej ack%252520artistmegasweet%252520big_macintosh%2525 20human%252520humanized%252520vidya.jpg

Got to love the way you come on to this thread to laugh at the repetition, and them come out with the oldest, most often repeated, corniest and most obviously irrelevant excuse for grunting that has appeared on all the treads on this topic.:yeah:

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:10 AM
^ I have the urgent need to eat them

How soon can you come over? I haven't started cutting yet, so if you're quick you can just chew them right off.

jj74
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:17 AM
I hope they do something, i watched a video of Auray U12 2012 second round match between russian Makarova and spanish Molina, and that was a grunt fest, wich is a pity because both girls seem quite promising

JRena
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:27 AM
Grunting isn't what's killing the WTA..it's the lack of talent.

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:33 AM
It's called hindrance, honey :wavey:

no, hindrance is when you scream after you hit the ball and interrupt your opponent from preparation to hit the ball back
check it below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYkEkh7Dd5Q

Screaming, grunting at the moment you are hitting the ball can not be a hindrance for your opponent

Morover, Sharapova, Azarenka are shrieking on every hit , and it is not unexpected

Sianta
Mar 31st, 2012, 11:19 AM
Grunting isn't what's killing the WTA..it's the lack of talent.

I disagree. My interest in the WTA is lessened by the amount of grunting and shrieking. I don't enjoy listening to it, I don't enjoy watching matches when players are grunting excessively. If the noise is bad, I turn off the TV or leave the stadium. It may not bother everyone but it obviously bothers enough of us that it does impact on the WTA's popularity. I would prefer to watch a match between low ranked non-grunters than watch two highly ranked top grunters on the court. The quality of the tennis may not be as high but I personally find it more enjoyable to watch.

bobito
Mar 31st, 2012, 02:13 PM
no, hindrance is when you scream after you hit the ball and interrupt your opponent from preparation to hit the ball back
check it below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYkEkh7Dd5Q

Screaming, grunting at the moment you are hitting the ball can not be a hindrance for your opponent

Morover, Sharapova, Azarenka are shrieking on every hit , and it is not unexpected

I suggest you read the rule again. The Hindrance rule makes no distinction about when the act takes place, whether before, during or after a shot or whether the ball is in the player's or the opponent's side of the court. Nor does it say that hindrance is allowed if the player does it every time they hit the ball.

Quite simply, if the player does something that may hinder the opponent, the point is automatically forfeited. There is no doubt that screaming at 90+ decibels when you hit the ball has the potential to distract the opponent so the rule therefore applies.

The only reason that the likes of Sharapova, Azarenka, Kirilenko et al have been able to get away with this dubious tactic is weak umpiring. The rules are clear and the screamers do not play by them.

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 02:14 PM
. The quality of the tennis may not be as high but I personally find it more enjoyable to watch.

never tried to decrease volume on your TV? ;) Watching shit tennis is not a clever decision even for "audiophiles"

stromatolite
Mar 31st, 2012, 02:31 PM
never tried to decrease volume on your TV? ;) Watching shit tennis is not a clever decision even for "audiophiles"

You're priceless! What other tips have you got for us? Stick tampons up our nostrils so you don't have to use deodorant anymore?

ivanban
Mar 31st, 2012, 09:50 PM
no, hindrance is when you scream after you hit the ball and interrupt your opponent from preparation to hit the ball back
check it below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYkEkh7Dd5Q

Screaming, grunting at the moment you are hitting the ball can not be a hindrance for your opponent

That's beyond retarded :spit:

Why should it be allowed only to a person who hits the ball?!

NashaMasha
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:10 PM
That's beyond retarded :spit:

Why should it be allowed only to a person who hits the ball?!

When hitting the ball racket and ball also produce sound, it is also loud

Why not to ban it either :)

We should also prohibit any loud footsteps(sometimes they are also loud) , which are becoming too irritating for audiophiles near TV screens

Don't be stupid with this grunting/shrieking problem , which was popularized by some Mashahaters and in reality cost nothing

For instance was shrieking a problem in the Final today? No, absolutely not

Sombrerero loco
Mar 31st, 2012, 10:15 PM
yeah, please. its getting worse and worse. please stop it, wta :tape:

bobito
Apr 1st, 2012, 05:57 PM
When hitting the ball racket and ball also produce sound, it is also loud

Why not to ban it either :)

Did it occur to you that a player might want to hear the sound of the ball hitting the racquet. Martina Navratilova has explained on a number of occasions that a player can pick up the force, spin and quality of timing of an opponent's shot by the sound. A player can disguise how these things look but not how they sound. Navratilova - “I remember how it was when Monica (Seles)and I were competitors and she began to grunt. I couldn’t hear the ball.

We should also prohibit any loud footsteps(sometimes they are also loud) , which are becoming too irritating for audiophiles near TV screens

Sharapova's screams have been measured as being as loud as a jackhammer. I doubt that even an elephant's footsteps would be anything like as loud, let alone a person's. :rolleyes:

Don't be stupid with this grunting/shrieking problem , which was popularized by some Mashahaters and in reality cost nothing

For instance was shrieking a problem in the Final today? No, absolutely not

No because the tactic didn't work. Radwanska was good enough to win even though she was playing the game fairly and by the rules and her opponent was not. Underhand tactics don't always work if the difference in skill is large enough.

terjw
Apr 1st, 2012, 06:56 PM
Grunting isn't what's killing the WTA..it's the lack of talent.

Only in your mind. The BBC say they get a large number of letters of complaints about the women shrieking every year when they cover Wimbledon.

Malva
Apr 1st, 2012, 07:50 PM
I disagree. My interest in the WTA is lessened by the amount of grunting and shrieking. I don't enjoy listening to it, I don't enjoy watching matches when players are grunting excessively. If the noise is bad, I turn off the TV or leave the stadium. It may not bother everyone but it obviously bothers enough of us that it does impact on the WTA's popularity. I would prefer to watch a match between low ranked non-grunters than watch two highly ranked top grunters on the court. The quality of the tennis may not be as high but I personally find it more enjoyable to watch.

Very good points. I confirm: grunting bothers a lot of people. For me it really sours the pleasure of watching tennis.

The «New York Times» by the way in their editorial brought the news about the WTA meeting under the headline «After Howls of Protest, WTA Will Address Shrieks»

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/sports/tennis/womens-tennis-association-to-tackle-excessive-grunting.html?_r=1&ref=tennis

A few excerpts:



Years ago, grunting in sports was the province of wrestlers, shot-putters and linemen in football.

Then women’s tennis players started grunting and suddenly every match seemed to include at least one opponent shrieking with every swing. In January, Victoria Azarenka and Maria Sharapova, the top two women’s players in the world, appeared to be fighting not just for the Australian Open championship but also for the title of loudest grunter.

But a growing chorus of complaints from fans and some athletes has pushed the Women’s Tennis Association to crack down on what it calls excessive grunting. At a meeting last weekend in Key Biscayne, Fla., the WTA’s board said it planned to tackle loud grunting, shrieking and yelling.

(...)

Grunting has been a topic for at least two decades on the women’s tour. At Wimbledon in 1992, Monica Seles not only had to worry about a death threat but also about the flap her grunting caused. During her semifinal victory over Martina Navratilova, Seles was cautioned twice by the chair umpire for her two-tone squeaks. One tabloid measured Seles’s loudest grunt at 98.1 decibels, two decibels lower than a pneumatic drill. In the final, Seles stayed quiet and lost in straight sets to Steffi Graf.

(...)

“I’ve run into a lot of people who tell me if they’re watching tennis on TV, they turn off the sound,” said Bud Collins, a longtime announcer. “I’m sure players don’t need to do it because you don’t hear a peep from them when they’re practicing. It’s gamesmanship.”

Wiggly
Apr 1st, 2012, 07:53 PM
If Sharapova were to retire, the would tell Azarenka to shut the ?$#$&&%*%# up.

Plenty of fans turned away from the game when the girls started all the shrieking.
The Tour is losing a lot of profits.

A quiet player could sue them for this.

Malva
Apr 1st, 2012, 08:45 PM
If Sharapova were to retire, the would tell Azarenka to shut the ?$#$&&%*%# up.

Plenty of fans turned away from the game when the girls started all the shrieking.
The Tour is losing a lot of profits.

A quiet player could sue them for this.

That's an interesting possibility, and probably quite real -- far lesser issues have been subject to litigation in recent times.

NashaMasha
Apr 1st, 2012, 09:05 PM
If Sharapova were to retire, the would tell Azarenka to shut the ?$#$&&%*%# up.

Plenty of fans turned away from the game when the girls started all the shrieking.
The Tour is losing a lot of profits.

A quiet player could sue them for this.


do you have results of sociologycal researches to prove your words? I guess no , Can you prove that TV rating of Sharapova vs Azarenka matches are lower than those players who does not shriek ?

If you can find no provement for your words, pls try to use "Shut up" terms for yourself

Wiggly
Apr 1st, 2012, 09:27 PM
do you have results of sociologycal researches to prove your words? I guess no , Can you prove that TV rating of Sharapova vs Azarenka matches are lower than those players who does not shriek ?

If you can find no provement for your words, pls try to use "Shut up" terms for yourself

I don't have any statistics to back my claims but any credible firm could do such a research and would prove me right.
Go read anywhere, much more people are saying they turned away from the game than started watching because of it.

Many say they turn off the sound or don't watch at all. That result in poor ratings and poor ticket sales.
Which prevents quiet players to grow their personal brand if nobody watch them.

If Jankovic wants the cash to pay her San Diego mansion, she would've a winning case against the WTA.
Imagine the drama.

stromatolite
Apr 2nd, 2012, 05:19 AM
do you have results of sociologycal researches to prove your words? I guess no , Can you prove that TV rating of Sharapova vs Azarenka matches are lower than those players who does not shriek ?

If you can find no provement for your words, pls try to use "Shut up" terms for yourself

Rich. You not only have no proof for any of the nonsense you have you have spouted on this thread, most of it is self-evidently absurd (e.g. criticism of grunting was invented by Masha-haters, who must have showed impressive foresight since they started before she was born). As for the effect of grunting on the popularity of tennis, unless grunting is the cause of your faves' popularity they would have at least as many fans if they didn't grunt, whereas millions of people who now avoid tennis because of grunting would consider returning.

So you are not even asking the right "sociological question", let alone giving a coherent answer. You might consider following your own advice to avoid embarrassing yourself any further.

everythingtaboo
Apr 2nd, 2012, 11:07 AM
Good luck explaining the youngsters why they should be quiet, while their idols don´t.

:worship: Really valid point.

NashaMasha
Apr 2nd, 2012, 02:54 PM
I don't have any statistics to back my claims but any credible firm could do such a research and would prove me right.
Go read anywhere, much more people are saying they turned away from the game than started watching because of it.

Many say they turn off the sound or don't watch at all. That result in poor ratings and poor ticket sales.
Which prevents quiet players to grow their personal brand if nobody watch them.

If Jankovic wants the cash to pay her San Diego mansion, she would've a winning case against the WTA.
Imagine the drama.

30-50 members of forum are not enough to say "many say" or millions I am sure that if because of shrieking and grunting women tennis became less profitable,TV ratings of finals with AZa/Pova decreased , we would have tomorrow new strict rules regarding shrieking But in reality all this complaints about sounds in the court come from neglectable minority
One the one hand this neglectable minority tries to register on all forums and write comments on all sports news sites ,and on the other hand Sharapova + Azarenka gain money to the WTA and all owners of tournaments in hundreds of millions
Thus neglectable minority will never outweigh profit from top players,

Wta confirmes my opinion with "new regulations will not affect active players"

NashaMasha
Apr 2nd, 2012, 03:24 PM
The singles final at the Western & Southern Financial Group Women’s Open between Kim Clijsters and Maria Sharapova was the second-most-watched Olympus US Open Series match in ESPN2’s history. Through four weeks, Olympus US Open Series broadcasts on ESPN2 have reached 33.2 million people, up almost two million from the previous high, set last year. The women’s final between Clijsters and Sharapova averaged 622,000 households and 902,000 people, second only to the 2005 Rogers Masters men’s final between Andre Agassi and Rafael Nadal, which averaged 653,000 households and 930,000 people.

Clijsters/Wozniacki women's final in 2009 drew a 1.1 U.S. rating and 1.8 million viewers on ESPN2, whereas Sharapova/Henin in 2006 2,4 U.S. rating (more than Del Potro/Federer in 2009)
where is your provement AzaSharahaters?