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View Full Version : How Great would Venus be if she did not have a kid sister?


reyrey
Mar 26th, 2012, 01:49 AM
I sometimes wondered if Venus would have been better or worse if Serena did not take up tennis. On one hand, I think Venus may have been a great player but would succumbed to the pressure and Serena helped alleviate that pressure. On the other hand, Venus only Grand slam final losses came at the hands of two players: Martina Hingis (US Open 1997) and Serena Williams (six times). I really don't know. Discuss.

nfl46
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:10 AM
She'll probably be over 10 Grand Slams right now.

The 2nd Law
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:11 AM
Mods had better move this to the player's forum just like they moved Cp6uja's thread :oh:

fedhingis67
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:11 AM
She would be the one with 13 slam and the Career Grand Slam. Heck, maybe 14 if we include the 2008 US Open, which I believe she would have won had she beaten Serena or if Serena had not played.

What do you mean exactly by "succumbing to pressure"?

danieln1
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:12 AM
Mods had better move this to the player's forum just like they moved Cp6uja's thread :oh:

A pretty ridiculous move you might say :rolleyes:

miffedmax
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:12 AM
I'm actually trying to find one of the other 37,000 threads on this topic to merge it into.

The 2nd Law
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:14 AM
I'm actually trying to find one of the other 37,000 threads on this topic to merge it into.

:lol: Don't worry I'm not actually bitching, I thought it was funny. It's just a thread

dybbuk
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:14 AM
If Venus didn't have Serena to compete with, maybe she wouldn't have ever gotten into tennis to begin with. 'What if' questions like these are unanswerable.

KBdoubleu
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:14 AM
It's hard to imagine she wouldn't have won the six finals she lost to Serena - putting her total at 13.

jameshazza
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Would she have had the motivation though? The sisters have always talked how they motivated each other and dreamed of playing each other in the Slam finals. But results wise if she did become the player she was without Serena around, then yes, she'd have a lot more slams.

Apoleb
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:35 AM
Well the Gods knew what a travesty for tennis if the game was ever dominated by someone with such a primitive game and technique, and so they brought forth Serena. Thank you Lord!

Nicolás89
Mar 26th, 2012, 02:47 AM
Venus always won her slams by completely outplaying her competition & always defeating the very best (maybe not in 2007) so kudos for her. She doesn't have an inflated record nor she underachieved, I think she's the only 1 of her contemporaries who can say none of her trophies were handed to her by weak fields.

Infiniti2001
Mar 26th, 2012, 03:48 AM
If Venus didn't have Serena to compete with, maybe she wouldn't have ever gotten into tennis to begin with. 'What if' questions like these are unanswerable.

I agree!! Ifs are so pointless. Meanwhile, some people just can't look away. They're like fucking rottweilers on a damn bone :rolleyes:

In The Zone
Mar 26th, 2012, 03:54 AM
If Venus didn't have Serena to compete with, maybe she wouldn't have ever gotten into tennis to begin with. 'What if' questions like these are unanswerable.

Exactly. Serena pushed her to new levels since they've played together every day their whole lives.

I think the sister dynamic is very underrated in terms of the sisters' success. I think it contributes a great deal to how motivated they are.

Stamp Paid
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:04 AM
Neither sister would be as successful as they are, if they didn't have the other there for motivation.
Venus probably would have won a few slams, then moved onto something more interesting and fulfilling.

Pump-it-UP
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:14 AM
"kid sister" is a Carillo phrase. :o:o:o

Anabelcroft
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:37 AM
We will never know as you never know what might have been if...

Critique
Mar 26th, 2012, 11:35 AM
Venus always won her slams by completely outplaying her competition & always defeating the very best (maybe not in 2007) so kudos for her. She doesn't have an inflated record nor she underachieved, I think she's the only 1 of her contemporaries who can say none of her trophies were handed to her by weak fields.

I agree with this.

Apart from Wimbledon '07, Venus defeated Serena x2, Lindsay x & Justine for 6 of her Slam finals. Plus wins over Clijsters, Hingis, Capriati & Sharapova en-route. Quite an impressive field. Thus in her peak years it makes sense to assume that Venus would have won Serena's slams had she not been around, although it would be a completely different dynamic. Serena's achievements in tennis inspired Venus and vice versa, so perhaps having Serena actually helped her. She has said herself that she "can't imagine having the career she has had without Serena in her life"

azinna
Mar 26th, 2012, 03:55 PM
Venus typically takes losses well. But fans of her saw something different in her face (hoodie pulled tight around her head) when she watched Serena beat Hingis in the '99 US Open final, for the first Williams slam. Even their mother commented later, said Venus' silence the night before was "like death." Months later, in 2000, Venus' focus and determination was knife-like. And she cut through the tour and the Olympics.

You could say something similar about Serena. Her 2002 run was motivated by a lot of things, certainly. But you know Baby Sis was dead set against a repeat of the '01 US Open final. She was all for those Sister Slams. But the desire to make the W's hers produced the best stretch of tennis we'd seen since....well, the summer of 2000.

I have no idea who would've shown up to play if one sister didn't have the other.
....

tennisbum79
Mar 26th, 2012, 03:57 PM
To quote Venus, "it is what it is", I don't want to ponder about it.

I will simply read other posters speculations

Tenis Srbija
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:02 PM
If Venus didn't have Serena to compete with, maybe she wouldn't have ever gotten into tennis to begin with. 'What if' questions like these are unanswerable.

THIS!

Apoleb
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:03 PM
But the desire to make the W's hers produced the best stretch of tennis we'd seen since....well, the summer of 2000

Serena's level of play in the summer of 1999 was more impressive than Venus' in either 2000 or 2001. In 2000-2001, Serena regressed a bit and she wasn't as bold and as free flowing as she was, and Venus took advantage.

Stamp Paid
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:04 PM
:oh:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:07 PM
Neither sister would be as successful as they are, if they didn't have the other there for motivation.
Venus probably would have won a few slams, then moved onto something more interesting and fulfilling.

ye i don't think they would have been, especially now when you see how they've supported each other in their come backs...

jrollaneres25
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Venus always won her slams by completely outplaying her competition & always defeating the very best (maybe not in 2007) so kudos for her. She doesn't have an inflated record nor she underachieved, I think she's the only 1 of her contemporaries who can say none of her trophies were handed to her by weak fields.

So true

tennisbum79
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Serena's level of play in the summer of 1999 was more impressive than Venus' in either 2000 or 2001. In 2000-2001, Serena regressed a bit and she wasn't as bold and as free flowing as she was, and Venus took advantage.
I strongly disagree, those were the years when Venus had total domination, Serena's career took off in 2002

jrollaneres25
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Exactly. Serena pushed her to new levels since they've played together every day their whole lives.

I think the sister dynamic is very underrated in terms of the sisters' success. I think it contributes a great deal to how motivated they are.

I'd say they pushed each other to new levels. This wasn't solely done by Serena.

azinna
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Serena's level of play in the summer of 1999 was more impressive than Venus' in either 2000 or 2001.

Completely disagree with this. Serena's '99 form was there for the 2001 US Open. She was as bold as ever, but not as disciplined-against-threatening-power-and-movement as Venus had become. Serena met and exceeded that bar the next year.

....

Apoleb
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Completely disagree with this.

....

For one thing, Venus was not able to hit Hingis off the court the way Serena did in the 99 final, even on her favorite grass. Serena was always better since they started playing.

tennisbum79
Mar 26th, 2012, 04:36 PM
For one thing, Venus was not able to hit Hingis off the court the way Serena did in the 99 final, even on her favorite grass. Serena was always better since they started playing.
I don't want to turn this into an adversarial Serena vs. Venus, but your statement is not historically correct.

Yes, Serena did have vast potentials, but she did not realize them until 2002. Her game was still raw in those years.
In 2000 and 2001, Venus always had the upper hand and she always felt sorry for her kid sister after each victory.

Serena did rule the sibling rivalry until later on.

Direwolf
Mar 26th, 2012, 05:06 PM
She would have won more than 22 slams by now.

Richard and Oracene would spend more time together coaching Venus and they would not get a divorce.
Venus would probably play less tournaments because she will win all the tournaments she enters
and therefore would get less injury.

She would be like the Roger Federer of WTA.

Direwolf
Mar 26th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Or you could also ask.

How Great would Venus be if she was the "YOUNGER" sister.
Would this 6'2" be the one shoving the ball into this 5'2" Shinos irritated breathing tube?