PDA

View Full Version : U.S. soldier murdered 16 Afghanistans


mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 04:52 AM
From Sara Sidner, CNN
updated 9:10 PM EDT, Sun March 11, 2012
Click to play
U.S. soldier accused in killing spree
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: A military official says the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state
Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his outpost, ISAF officials say
"We call this an intentional act," Karzai says
Obama offers sympathy for "tragic and shocking" killings

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An American soldier went on a house-to-house shooting spree in two villages in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, Afghan officials said, killing 16 people in what Afghanistan's president called an "unforgivable" crime.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the soldier acted alone and turned himself in after opening fire on civilians. U.S. President Barack Obama called the killings "tragic and shocking," and offered his condolences to the Afghan people in a phone call to his counterpart in Kabul, Hamid Karzai, the White House said.

But the attack is likely to further more anger at international forces following deadly riots over the burning of Qurans by U.S. troops.

"The Afghan people can withstand a lot of pain," Prince Ali Seraj, the head of the National Coalition for Dialogue with the Tribes of Afghanistan, told CNN. "They can withstand collateral damage. They can withstand night raids. But murder is something that they totally abhor, and when that happens, they really want justice."

In a statement issued by his office, Karzai said the killings took place in the district of Panjwai, about 25 km (15 miles) southwest of Kandahar, southern Afghanistan's major city. Haji Agha Lali, a member of the provincial council, told CNN the soldier had attacked four houses in two nearby villages.
U.S. service member detained in Kandahar
Ali Seraj: U.S. can't white-wash murder
Reid: Afghanistan timetable still works
Map: AfghanistanMap: Afghanistan

"We call this an intentional act," Karzai said. He said the dead included four men, three women and nine children, calling the killings "acts of terror and unforgivable." Another five people were wounded, he said.

Capt. Justin Brockhoff, an ISAF spokesman, said the wounded Afghans were being treated in ISAF facilities. The allied command did not give its own estimate of casualties.

Brockhoff said officials do not yet have a motive for the shooting, which is under investigation by both NATO and Afghan officials. And Maj. Jason Waggoner, another ISAF spokesman, said the soldier "was acting on his own."

There were no military operations in the area, either on the ground or in the air, at the time, according to two senior ISAF officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. They said only one soldier, an Army staff sergeant, is believed to have been involved.

A U.S. military official told CNN later Sunday that the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state. The official said the soldier is assigned to a Special Forces unit.

A third ISAF official said Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his combat outpost around 3 a.m. Sunday and notified their American counterparts. The U.S. military did an immediate headcount, found the soldier was missing and dispatched a patrol to go look for him, the official said.

The officials said they have no knowledge at this point whether he had any previous medical or mental health issues in his record.

The patrol met him as he returned and took him into custody. He said nothing, and it was unclear whether they knew what had happened, the official said.

"We don't know what motivated this individual, and we're not sure where this is going to take us," Capt. John Kirby, an ISAF spokesman, told CNN. But he said ISAF's commander, Gen. John Allen, "has made it clear this investigation is going to be thorough. It's going to be done rapidly, in an expeditious way, and we're going to hold the perpetrator of these attacks to account."

The news brought a wave of condemnations from top American officials. In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said the U.S. military will "get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."

White House response to shooting spree

"I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering," Obama said. "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."

In a separate statement, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said he was "shocked and saddened" by the attack and said the suspect was "clearly acting outside his chain of command." Allen called the killings "deeply appalling," and acting U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham said his country was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."

"We deplore any attack by a member of the U.S. Armed Forces against innocent civilians," he said in a video statement, assuring "the people of Afghanistan that the individual or individuals responsible for this terrible act will be identified and brought to justice."

But Seraj, a member of Afghanistan's former royal family, said the killings are likely to play into the hands of the Taliban, the Islamic fundamentalist movement that has battled the U.S.-led coalition for a decade.

"They are really going to milk this for all it's worth," Seraj said, adding, "This is playing right into their program of psychological warfare against the Afghan people."

The Taliban has already said that the deaths were the result of a night raid by several soldiers and put the death toll at 50, but it regularly exaggerates casualty figures.

Seraj called for a joint U.S.-Afghan investigation into the killings, saying Afghans will want to see "quick and decisive justice."

"We cannot whitewash this and get this young man out of Afghanistan and send him back to the United States. That is the worst thing we can do at this time," he said. And he questioned how the soldier left his post in the pre-dawn hours, adding, "I know the Kandahar base. A fly cannot get in without being searched."

Kandahar and the surrounding region is the home of the Taliban, and eight of the 69 coalition troops killed in Afghanistan so far this year died in the province. But Kirby said the area has been "a big success story" for the allied campaign, and he said Allen has made clear that the coalition strategy won't be affected by Sunday's killings.

"As tragic as this incident is, it would be a larger tragedy to affect the mission at large and what we're trying to do for the country," he said.

"We're going to continue to be out there among the populace," he added. "We're going to continue to try to beat back this insurgency."

Taliban link attack to Quran burning

The United States and its allies invaded Afghanistan in 2001, following al Qaeda's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people. The invasion quickly toppled the Taliban, which ruled most of Afghanistan and had allowed al Qaeda to operate from its territory. But the militia soon regrouped and launched an insurgent campaign against the allied forces and a new government led by Karzai.

The No. 1 U.S. target in the conflict, al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden, was killed in a commando raid in neighboring Pakistan in May 2011. American and allied combat troops are scheduled to leave Afghanistan by 2014, and Karzai has been increasingly critical of the allied force.

Tensions ramped up dramatically in February, after a group of U.S. soldiers burned copies of the Quran, Islam's holy book, that had been seized from inmates at the American-run prison at Bagram Air Base. American officials from Obama down called the burning an accident and apologized for it, but riots left dozens dead, including six American troops. Hundreds more Afghans were wounded.

The war has cost the lives of nearly 1,900 Americans and just under 1,000 more allied troops to date.

CNN's Samira Jafari, Claudia Dominguez, Ruhullah Khapalwak, Barbara Starr and Josh Levs contributed to this report.

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 02:15 PM
From Sara Sidner, CNN
updated 9:10 PM EDT, Sun March 11, 2012
Click to play
U.S. soldier accused in killing spree
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: A military official says the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state
Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his outpost, ISAF officials say
"We call this an intentional act," Karzai says
Obama offers sympathy for "tragic and shocking" killings

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An American soldier went on a house-to-house shooting spree in two villages in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, Afghan officials said, killing 16 people in what Afghanistan's president called an "unforgivable" crime.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the soldier acted alone and turned himself in after opening fire on civilians. U.S. President Barack Obama called the killings "tragic and shocking," and offered his condolences to the Afghan people in a phone call to his counterpart in Kabul, Hamid Karzai, the White House said.

But the attack is likely to further more anger at international forces following deadly riots over the burning of Qurans by U.S. troops.

"The Afghan people can withstand a lot of pain," Prince Ali Seraj, the head of the National Coalition for Dialogue with the Tribes of Afghanistan, told CNN. "They can withstand collateral damage. They can withstand night raids. But murder is something that they totally abhor, and when that happens, they really want justice."

In a statement issued by his office, Karzai said the killings took place in the district of Panjwai, about 25 km (15 miles) southwest of Kandahar, southern Afghanistan's major city. Haji Agha Lali, a member of the provincial council, told CNN the soldier had attacked four houses in two nearby villages.
U.S. service member detained in Kandahar
Ali Seraj: U.S. can't white-wash murder
Reid: Afghanistan timetable still works
Map: AfghanistanMap: Afghanistan

"We call this an intentional act," Karzai said. He said the dead included four men, three women and nine children, calling the killings "acts of terror and unforgivable." Another five people were wounded, he said.

Capt. Justin Brockhoff, an ISAF spokesman, said the wounded Afghans were being treated in ISAF facilities. The allied command did not give its own estimate of casualties.

Brockhoff said officials do not yet have a motive for the shooting, which is under investigation by both NATO and Afghan officials. And Maj. Jason Waggoner, another ISAF spokesman, said the soldier "was acting on his own."

There were no military operations in the area, either on the ground or in the air, at the time, according to two senior ISAF officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. They said only one soldier, an Army staff sergeant, is believed to have been involved.

A U.S. military official told CNN later Sunday that the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state. The official said the soldier is assigned to a Special Forces unit.

A third ISAF official said Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his combat outpost around 3 a.m. Sunday and notified their American counterparts. The U.S. military did an immediate headcount, found the soldier was missing and dispatched a patrol to go look for him, the official said.

The officials said they have no knowledge at this point whether he had any previous medical or mental health issues in his record.

The patrol met him as he returned and took him into custody. He said nothing, and it was unclear whether they knew what had happened, the official said.

"We don't know what motivated this individual, and we're not sure where this is going to take us," Capt. John Kirby, an ISAF spokesman, told CNN. But he said ISAF's commander, Gen. John Allen, "has made it clear this investigation is going to be thorough. It's going to be done rapidly, in an expeditious way, and we're going to hold the perpetrator of these attacks to account."

The news brought a wave of condemnations from top American officials. In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said the U.S. military will "get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."

White House response to shooting spree

"I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering," Obama said. "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."

In a separate statement, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said he was "shocked and saddened" by the attack and said the suspect was "clearly acting outside his chain of command." Allen called the killings "deeply appalling," and acting U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham said his country was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."

"We deplore any attack by a member of the U.S. Armed Forces against innocent civilians," he said in a video statement, assuring "the people of Afghanistan that the individual or individuals responsible for this terrible act will be identified and brought to justice."

But Seraj, a member of Afghanistan's former royal family, said the killings are likely to play into the hands of the Taliban, the Islamic fundamentalist movement that has battled the U.S.-led coalition for a decade.

"They are really going to milk this for all it's worth," Seraj said, adding, "This is playing right into their program of psychological warfare against the Afghan people."

The Taliban has already said that the deaths were the result of a night raid by several soldiers and put the death toll at 50, but it regularly exaggerates casualty figures.

Seraj called for a joint U.S.-Afghan investigation into the killings, saying Afghans will want to see "quick and decisive justice."

"We cannot whitewash this and get this young man out of Afghanistan and send him back to the United States. That is the worst thing we can do at this time," he said. And he questioned how the soldier left his post in the pre-dawn hours, adding, "I know the Kandahar base. A fly cannot get in without being searched."

Kandahar and the surrounding region is the home of the Taliban, and eight of the 69 coalition troops killed in Afghanistan so far this year died in the province. But Kirby said the area has been "a big success story" for the allied campaign, and he said Allen has made clear that the coalition strategy won't be affected by Sunday's killings.

"As tragic as this incident is, it would be a larger tragedy to affect the mission at large and what we're trying to do for the country," he said.

"We're going to continue to be out there among the populace," he added. "We're going to continue to try to beat back this insurgency."

Taliban link attack to Quran burning

The United States and its allies invaded Afghanistan in 2001, following al Qaeda's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people. The invasion quickly toppled the Taliban, which ruled most of Afghanistan and had allowed al Qaeda to operate from its territory. But the militia soon regrouped and launched an insurgent campaign against the allied forces and a new government led by Karzai.

The No. 1 U.S. target in the conflict, al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden, was killed in a commando raid in neighboring Pakistan in May 2011. American and allied combat troops are scheduled to leave Afghanistan by 2014, and Karzai has been increasingly critical of the allied force.

Tensions ramped up dramatically in February, after a group of U.S. soldiers burned copies of the Quran, Islam's holy book, that had been seized from inmates at the American-run prison at Bagram Air Base. American officials from Obama down called the burning an accident and apologized for it, but riots left dozens dead, including six American troops. Hundreds more Afghans were wounded.

The war has cost the lives of nearly 1,900 Americans and just under 1,000 more allied troops to date.

CNN's Samira Jafari, Claudia Dominguez, Ruhullah Khapalwak, Barbara Starr and Josh Levs contributed to this report.
This on top of the Quran is really tragic. We really need to get out of there before all of the good we supposedly did is lost.

Lin Lin
Mar 12th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Poor Afghanistanis:hug:

fifiricci
Mar 12th, 2012, 02:36 PM
If the totals were the other way around (1 Afghani kills 16 US soldiers), there'd be a gazillion posts of righteous outrage in this thread, but it's only got tumbleweed rolling through it!

donellcarey
Mar 12th, 2012, 02:41 PM
Just heard that news on tv during breakfast, horrible horrible horrible, the worst of all, 11 of them are women and children.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2012, 02:57 PM
If the totals were the other way around (1 Afghani kills 16 US soldiers), there'd be a gazillion posts of righteous outrage in this thread, but it's only got tumbleweed rolling through it!

i was wondering where the outrage is, but clearly this show what i already know...they cares not when it's not their own being killed

ampers&
Mar 12th, 2012, 03:08 PM
Appalling. :speakles: I wondered how he'll be punished? And I wonder when the Taliban will retaliate. :o

Londoner
Mar 12th, 2012, 04:36 PM
If the totals were the other way around (1 Afghani kills 16 US soldiers), there'd be a gazillion posts of righteous outrage in this thread, but it's only got tumbleweed rolling through it!

Very true. Maybe if the victims had been gay there may have been more outrage on here?;)

Londoner
Mar 12th, 2012, 04:38 PM
This on top of the Quran is really tragic. We really need to get out of there before all of the good we supposedly did is lost.

We didn't do any good.

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 04:41 PM
From Sara Sidner, CNN
updated 9:10 PM EDT, Sun March 11, 2012
Click to play
U.S. soldier accused in killing spree
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

NEW: A military official says the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state
Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his outpost, ISAF officials say
"We call this an intentional act," Karzai says
Obama offers sympathy for "tragic and shocking" killings

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An American soldier went on a house-to-house shooting spree in two villages in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, Afghan officials said, killing 16 people in what Afghanistan's president called an "unforgivable" crime.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the soldier acted alone and turned himself in after opening fire on civilians. U.S. President Barack Obama called the killings "tragic and shocking," and offered his condolences to the Afghan people in a phone call to his counterpart in Kabul, Hamid Karzai, the White House said.

But the attack is likely to further more anger at international forces following deadly riots over the burning of Qurans by U.S. troops.

"The Afghan people can withstand a lot of pain," Prince Ali Seraj, the head of the National Coalition for Dialogue with the Tribes of Afghanistan, told CNN. "They can withstand collateral damage. They can withstand night raids. But murder is something that they totally abhor, and when that happens, they really want justice."

In a statement issued by his office, Karzai said the killings took place in the district of Panjwai, about 25 km (15 miles) southwest of Kandahar, southern Afghanistan's major city. Haji Agha Lali, a member of the provincial council, told CNN the soldier had attacked four houses in two nearby villages.
U.S. service member detained in Kandahar
Ali Seraj: U.S. can't white-wash murder
Reid: Afghanistan timetable still works
Map: AfghanistanMap: Afghanistan

"We call this an intentional act," Karzai said. He said the dead included four men, three women and nine children, calling the killings "acts of terror and unforgivable." Another five people were wounded, he said.

Capt. Justin Brockhoff, an ISAF spokesman, said the wounded Afghans were being treated in ISAF facilities. The allied command did not give its own estimate of casualties.

Brockhoff said officials do not yet have a motive for the shooting, which is under investigation by both NATO and Afghan officials. And Maj. Jason Waggoner, another ISAF spokesman, said the soldier "was acting on his own."

There were no military operations in the area, either on the ground or in the air, at the time, according to two senior ISAF officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. They said only one soldier, an Army staff sergeant, is believed to have been involved.

A U.S. military official told CNN later Sunday that the suspect is from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state. The official said the soldier is assigned to a Special Forces unit.

A third ISAF official said Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his combat outpost around 3 a.m. Sunday and notified their American counterparts. The U.S. military did an immediate headcount, found the soldier was missing and dispatched a patrol to go look for him, the official said.

The officials said they have no knowledge at this point whether he had any previous medical or mental health issues in his record.

The patrol met him as he returned and took him into custody. He said nothing, and it was unclear whether they knew what had happened, the official said.

"We don't know what motivated this individual, and we're not sure where this is going to take us," Capt. John Kirby, an ISAF spokesman, told CNN. But he said ISAF's commander, Gen. John Allen, "has made it clear this investigation is going to be thorough. It's going to be done rapidly, in an expeditious way, and we're going to hold the perpetrator of these attacks to account."

The news brought a wave of condemnations from top American officials. In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said the U.S. military will "get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."

White House response to shooting spree

"I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering," Obama said. "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."

In a separate statement, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said he was "shocked and saddened" by the attack and said the suspect was "clearly acting outside his chain of command." Allen called the killings "deeply appalling," and acting U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham said his country was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."

"We deplore any attack by a member of the U.S. Armed Forces against innocent civilians," he said in a video statement, assuring "the people of Afghanistan that the individual or individuals responsible for this terrible act will be identified and brought to justice."

But Seraj, a member of Afghanistan's former royal family, said the killings are likely to play into the hands of the Taliban, the Islamic fundamentalist movement that has battled the U.S.-led coalition for a decade.

"They are really going to milk this for all it's worth," Seraj said, adding, "This is playing right into their program of psychological warfare against the Afghan people."

The Taliban has already said that the deaths were the result of a night raid by several soldiers and put the death toll at 50, but it regularly exaggerates casualty figures.

Seraj called for a joint U.S.-Afghan investigation into the killings, saying Afghans will want to see "quick and decisive justice."

"We cannot whitewash this and get this young man out of Afghanistan and send him back to the United States. That is the worst thing we can do at this time," he said. And he questioned how the soldier left his post in the pre-dawn hours, adding, "I know the Kandahar base. A fly cannot get in without being searched."

Kandahar and the surrounding region is the home of the Taliban, and eight of the 69 coalition troops killed in Afghanistan so far this year died in the province. But Kirby said the area has been "a big success story" for the allied campaign, and he said Allen has made clear that the coalition strategy won't be affected by Sunday's killings.

"As tragic as this incident is, it would be a larger tragedy to affect the mission at large and what we're trying to do for the country," he said.

"We're going to continue to be out there among the populace," he added. "We're going to continue to try to beat back this insurgency."

Taliban link attack to Quran burning

The United States and its allies invaded Afghanistan in 2001, following al Qaeda's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people. The invasion quickly toppled the Taliban, which ruled most of Afghanistan and had allowed al Qaeda to operate from its territory. But the militia soon regrouped and launched an insurgent campaign against the allied forces and a new government led by Karzai.

The No. 1 U.S. target in the conflict, al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden, was killed in a commando raid in neighboring Pakistan in May 2011. American and allied combat troops are scheduled to leave Afghanistan by 2014, and Karzai has been increasingly critical of the allied force.

Tensions ramped up dramatically in February, after a group of U.S. soldiers burned copies of the Quran, Islam's holy book, that had been seized from inmates at the American-run prison at Bagram Air Base. American officials from Obama down called the burning an accident and apologized for it, but riots left dozens dead, including six American troops. Hundreds more Afghans were wounded.

The war has cost the lives of nearly 1,900 Americans and just under 1,000 more allied troops to date.

CNN's Samira Jafari, Claudia Dominguez, Ruhullah Khapalwak, Barbara Starr and Josh Levs contributed to this report.

Very true. Maybe if the victims had been gay there may have been more outrage on here?;)

How are we helping these people when we continue to do dumb things that show that their culture, beliefs and lives are of no value to us? There was a guy on some tv show that talked about how they abused, took their possessions and did anything else to them that they chose and there was nothing the Afghans could do about it. All this does is make it more dangerous for our troops. I heard that the pictures were gruesome.

HippityHop
Mar 12th, 2012, 06:01 PM
Why in the hell are we still there? :mad:

Milito22
Mar 12th, 2012, 06:57 PM
G*d bless America...:rolleyes:

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 07:46 PM
US has committed plenty of atrocities in the war of terror, but that country is a dead end. They wont achieve anything long term there. The govt and islamic extremists are making a big deal out of this and the koran burning, as if they really care about justice and deaths of children. The islamic extremists shoot up villages on a regular basis.

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 07:48 PM
Why in the hell are we still there? :mad:

ask the fool president that America gave two terms to. once you go in there you dont just get out overnight

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 07:57 PM
US has committed plenty of atrocities in the war of terror, but that country is a dead end. They wont achieve anything long term there. The govt and islamic extremists are making a big deal out of this and the koran burning, as if they really care about justice and deaths of children. The islamic extremists shoot up villages on a regular basis.

So all or most Afghans are Islamic extremist and the death of their children doesn't matter. I do believe you must have misspoke. It's that type of attitude that causes these types of things to happen.

Londoner
Mar 12th, 2012, 08:03 PM
So all or most Afghans are Islamic extremist and the death of their children doesn't matter. I do believe you must have misspoke. It's that type of attitude that causes these types of things to happen.

Most Afghans are no doubt just like everyone else all over the World. But their history is terrifying and no foreign power has ever achieved anything there except further bloodshed and worse conditions. It's a Tribal country with many of its people having lived under warfare and horror all their lives. We have done nothing to improve this, and watch further horrors unfold as soon as we're gone. We learned nothing from the past. We simply should never have gone in there.

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 08:09 PM
Most Afghans are no doubt just like everyone else all over the World. But their history is terrifying and no foreign power has ever achieved anything there except further bloodshed and worse conditions. It's a Tribal country with many of its people having lived under warfare and horror all their lives. We have done nothing to improve this, and watch further horrors unfold as soon as we're gone. We learned nothing from the past. We simply should never have gone in there.
True

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 08:51 PM
So all or most Afghans are Islamic extremist and the death of their children doesn't matter. I do believe you must have misspoke. It's that type of attitude that causes these types of things to happen.

No sweety you misspoke. You seriously think I said the death of children doesn't matter :lol: The Islamic extremists are a tiny minority who think its their right to tell other ppl how to live. Theres a new drama thread in GM which needs your attention.

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 08:52 PM
Most Afghans are no doubt just like everyone else all over the World. But their history is terrifying and no foreign power has ever achieved anything there except further bloodshed and worse conditions. It's a Tribal country with many of its people having lived under warfare and horror all their lives. We have done nothing to improve this, and watch further horrors unfold as soon as we're gone. We learned nothing from the past. We simply should never have gone in there.

The neocons are smarter than anyone. Vote republican everyone, we want another war!

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2012, 09:10 PM
No sweety you misspoke. You seriously think I said the death of children doesn't matter :lol: The Islamic extremists are a tiny minority who think its their right to tell other ppl how to live. Theres a new drama thread in GM which needs your attention.
Sweetie since you know about the thread in GM perhaps you can go back there and the reason I questioned you is because I'd not seen a post by you that seemed so insensitive. If I misread then I apologize and the reason I said did you misspeak was because what I felt you were saying wasn't the type of post I'd read from you in the past.

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 09:19 PM
:lol: All I said is the govt and islamic extremists are going to use this for their own purpose. I dont know how you can misunderstand that, but whatever. This is just another Vietnam, its better to get out but all the gains that the US wasted money on will be lost

Sammo
Mar 12th, 2012, 09:50 PM
Mental dorks are the base of the American Army :shrug: Sometimes they turn out to be more psychotic than usual and this kind of things happen.

King Halep
Mar 12th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Only surprising thing is that it does not happen more often. The US Army deals with the soldiers problems with a bunch of pills.

HippityHop
Mar 12th, 2012, 10:58 PM
ask the fool president that America gave two terms to. once you go in there you dont just get out overnight

How long is "overnight"? Three years, five years, ten years?
We seem to have gotten out of Iraq "overnight".

Now we just seem to be there trying to remake that country into a Western style democracy. It never will happen.

Bayo
Mar 13th, 2012, 02:48 AM
I was listening to PRI on the way home, and the guest was a vet of the Afghan War. According to him, it's next to impossible to just saunter off a base as we're being led to believe this soldier did. I expect there's quite a bit more to this story.

But as Michael Hastings' reportage of late has demonstrated, the military operates above and beyond the law.

wta_zuperfann
Mar 13th, 2012, 04:40 AM
This was not an act of war but a mass murder. Therefore, it should be tried by Afghanistanis, not by US military courts.

Stamp Paid
Mar 13th, 2012, 04:51 AM
Seriously appalling act! Those poor people. :sad:

edificio
Mar 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM
This act was so horrific. Yesterday, I just felt so helpless. Why are we still there? I know that there is a planned reduction of troops planned for this summer, but I feel we've doubly failed Afghanistan. It just makes me so sad, and I don't even know what to say.

wta_zuperfann
Mar 13th, 2012, 05:09 PM
If the totals were the other way around (1 Afghani kills 16 US soldiers), there'd be a gazillion posts of righteous outrage in this thread, but it's only got tumbleweed rolling through it!


The right wingers demanded that we invade Afghanistan to avenge the attack (allegedly) by OBL on 911. Please recall that the Taliban government offered to imprison and try him for those crimes. But Bush and his cabal of right wing traitors refused the offer and insisted on capturing and trying him on USA soil. Their grounds being that the crime took place here.

Using that same logic, the perpetrators of this crime should go on trial under Sharia law in Afghanistan because his crimes took place there. But notice how the right wingers are not demanding that he be surrendered to Afghan authorities. Well, it's no surprise since nobody ever accused them of applying their logic on a consistent basis.

Balltossovic
Mar 13th, 2012, 05:22 PM
This was an atrocity, to say the least, but the US Armed forces are pushing our soldiers TOO FAR!

This man was on his FOURTH tour. Fourth!

It's too much for these men and women. They need to go home and stay with their families and two tours.
I am in NO WAY condoning or even excusing what he did. Killing children in their sleep is cowardly, to say the least, but something must have been wrong with him?

edificio
Mar 13th, 2012, 07:04 PM
This was an atrocity, to say the least, but the US Armed forces are pushing our soldiers TOO FAR!

This man was on his FOURTH tour. Fourth!

It's too much for these men and women. They need to go home and stay with their families and two tours.
I am in NO WAY condoning or even excusing what he did. Killing children in their sleep is cowardly, to say the least, but something must have been wrong with him?

This is no excuse. Also, killing children? No. Unforgivable.

MaBaker
Mar 13th, 2012, 07:04 PM
This was an atrocity, to say the least, but the US Armed forces are pushing our soldiers TOO FAR!

This man was on his FOURTH tour. Fourth!

It's too much for these men and women. They need to go home and stay with their families and two tours.
I am in NO WAY condoning or even excusing what he did. Killing children in their sleep is cowardly, to say the least, but something must have been wrong with him?
There is always something wrong with soldiers who go billion miles away to defend their country from a country that didn't even do anything to them in the first place.

American soldiers (just like soldiers of any other country) kill civilians. But a lot of people still have that idea of USA's (and NATO's) soldiers being heroic and that they bring peace&democracy. They don't... they bring nothing but death, fear and misery.

Balltossovic
Mar 13th, 2012, 07:20 PM
This is no excuse. Also, killing children? No. Unforgivable.
I am not excusing him:confused:

AliceMariaRenka
Mar 13th, 2012, 07:32 PM
There is always something wrong with soldiers who go billion miles away to defend their country from a country that didn't even do anything to them in the first place.

American soldiers (just like soldiers of any other country) kill civilians. But a lot of people still have that idea of USA's (and NATO's) soldiers being heroic and that they bring peace&democracy. They don't... they bring nothing but death, fear and misery.

I agree with this.

Such atrocities always take place by armies from all countries in all 'conflicts'. Because war drives people in the armed services mad and brings out behaviours that they wouldn't normally have.

I personally don't believe in any wars. I don't think any have ever been justified and I believe the world would have been no worse if countries hadn't joined in them, including the 2nd WW. For example, Britain joining/starting both the 1st and 2nd WWs did not prevent the Holocaust or millions from dying and being affected. It just stopped one political power over another. I think people are brainwashed by politicians that war is needed when in fact there would be far less bloodshed if countries didn't join in wars.

azdaja
Mar 13th, 2012, 08:04 PM
I agree with this.

Such atrocities always take place by armies from all countries in all 'conflicts'. Because war drives people in the armed services mad and brings out behaviours that they wouldn't normally have.

I personally don't believe in any wars. I don't think any have ever been justified and I believe the world would have been no worse if countries hadn't joined in them, including the 2nd WW. For example, Britain joining/starting both the 1st and 2nd WWs did not prevent the Holocaust or millions from dying and being affected. It just stopped one political power over another. I think people are brainwashed by politicians that war is needed when in fact there would be far less bloodshed if countries didn't join in wars.
i disagree about the ww2 that one was probably the only war in the 20th century worth fighting, though it could have been prevented. not getting into that war early enough is now commonly used as an excuse to start wars all over the place even though i don't see any meaningful anology to the situation back then (the most powerful military of the world starting wars at will). well, we do have that situation at present, come to think of it :tape:

other than that it's true that wars bring the worst out of humans, so don't send them to wars and don't bring wars to them. yes, there is individual responsibility and this soldier (or soldiers) deserve punishment but the ultimate responsibility is with people who started the war, with those who don't want to quit them and with those who want even more wars in other places, frequently in order to save civilian lives from mad dictators, ironically.

Brena
Mar 13th, 2012, 09:06 PM
There is always something wrong with soldiers who go billion miles away to defend their country from a country that didn't even do anything to them in the first place.

American soldiers (just like soldiers of any other country) kill civilians. But a lot of people still have that idea of USA's (and NATO's) soldiers being heroic and that they bring peace&democracy. They don't... they bring nothing but death, fear and misery.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/429053_409048135779247_259184544098941_1773425_131 8836632_n.jpg

HippityHop
Mar 13th, 2012, 10:50 PM
I am not excusing him:confused:

Clearly you were not excusing him. I think that edificio just wanted to rant and didn't bother to read your post.

HippityHop
Mar 13th, 2012, 10:54 PM
I agree with this.

Such atrocities always take place by armies from all countries in all 'conflicts'. Because war drives people in the armed services mad and brings out behaviours that they wouldn't normally have.

I personally don't believe in any wars. I don't think any have ever been justified and I believe the world would have been no worse if countries hadn't joined in them, including the 2nd WW. For example, Britain joining/starting both the 1st and 2nd WWs did not prevent the Holocaust or millions from dying and being affected. It just stopped one political power over another. I think people are brainwashed by politicians that war is needed when in fact there would be far less bloodshed if countries didn't join in wars.

Do you really believe that if Hitler had not been stopped that the world would be better off today?

And how could he have been stopped without going to war with him? Maybe if the world had asked him nicely he would have seen the error of his ways.

Perhaps you think that you would have been counted as part of the master race and therefore been exempted from extermination.

ce
Mar 13th, 2012, 11:02 PM
:sad:

edificio
Mar 14th, 2012, 04:54 AM
Clearly you were not excusing him. I think that edificio just wanted to rant and didn't bother to read your post.

I read the post. I don't know why you would assume I hadn't. If you think that was ranting, you don't know ranting.

I simply wanted to highlight that the man's actions are inexcusable, nothing to do with that poster.

HippityHop
Mar 14th, 2012, 02:19 PM
I read the post. I don't know why you would assume I hadn't. If you think that was ranting, you don't know ranting.

I simply wanted to highlight that the man's actions are inexcusable, nothing to do with that poster.

It's perfectly understandable that I and the poster thought that you were implying that the poster was trying to find an excuse for the soldier. You can't see that?

pov
Mar 14th, 2012, 07:32 PM
US has committed plenty of atrocities in the war of terror, but that country is a dead end. They wont achieve anything long term there. The govt and islamic extremists are making a big deal out of this and the koran burning, as if they really care about justice and deaths of children. The islamic extremists shoot up villages on a regular basis.
A twisted response which amounts to: "I think they're "bad" people so I don't care what's done to them."
And BTW justice isn't an absolute - it's a moral code that varies dramatically among nations, cultures and eras.

King Halep
Mar 15th, 2012, 12:03 AM
A twisted response which amounts to: "I think they're "bad" people so I don't care what's done to them."
And BTW justice isn't an absolute - it's a moral code that varies dramatically among nations, cultures and eras.

You think I am saying the dead Afghan women and children are bad people?

The US Army are stretching their personnel beyond their limits. Sending someone with a head injury back for a fourth tour. Ignoring PTSD diagnoses. Looks like they just want their personnel to toughen up.

King Halep
Mar 15th, 2012, 12:13 AM
How long is "overnight"? Three years, five years, ten years?
We seem to have gotten out of Iraq "overnight".

Now we just seem to be there trying to remake that country into a Western style democracy. It never will happen.

The answer the US govt has been giving is that the Afghan govt need to get to a level where they can survive without foreign armies and not be overrun by the Islamics as soon as the last US plane leaves. The US have obviously picked the wrong Afghan to make president and the govt will never be in a position to keep a democracy in place nor have much control outside the main city, not that bringing democracy and freedom was ever a US major priority. They only want a client state with a stable govt that takes its orders from US. So you can decide whether Obama is safe to get out yet or he still has more "nation-building" to do.

HippityHop
Mar 15th, 2012, 02:39 PM
For many years, Russians and Brits tried to civilize the Afghan people but failed. Now, Americans are failing, too.

Afghans and other Muslims can never live in a peaceful democracy without violence and killing.

Indeed. At some point you have to let people play out their own scenarios in their own country.

Stamp Paid
Mar 15th, 2012, 04:24 PM
Indeed. At some point you have to let people play out their own scenarios in their own country.:unsure:

HippityHop
Mar 15th, 2012, 04:48 PM
:unsure:

Well argued.

*JR*
Mar 15th, 2012, 11:19 PM
The Taliban are not al-Qaeda, and certainly not the Nazis. They're today's equivalent of the Vietcong, fighting for control of their country, not the US, Britain, etc. (Of course "Communist" Vietnam is now a major manufacturing center for Western consumers). Its time to get the fuck out, now!

And if the US wants to engage in wars, we need a goddam military draft, so you don't have a tiny % of the population carrying the burden! :mad: Maybe with student deferments for engineers, etc. but not for majors in English lit, fine arts, and other stuff that's "non-essential".

And let the kids of members of Congress and the military brass, the executives of their contractors like Halliburton, and the foreign policy makers go first! :fiery: BTW, this is bipartisan; by the time of Obama's Afghan "surge", it already met his 2002 definition of a "dumb war". :rolleyes:

Stamp Paid
Mar 15th, 2012, 11:55 PM
Well argued.

Well argued?
For many years, Russians and Brits tried to civilize the Afghan people...Civilize? :unsure:

Afghans and other Muslims can never live in a peaceful democracy without violence and killing.
Turkey? Indonesia? :unsure::unsure:
Reading the posts of people in the political threads is such a mindfuck. :lol:

Stamp Paid
Mar 15th, 2012, 11:58 PM
The Taliban are not al-Qaeda, and certainly not the Nazis. They're today's equivalent of the Vietcong, fighting for control of their country, not the US, Britain, etc. (Of course "Communist" Vietnam is now a major manufacturing center for Western consumers). Its time to get the fuck out, now!

And if the US wants to engage in wars, we need a goddam military draft, so you don't have a tiny % of the population carrying the burden! :mad: Maybe with student deferments for engineers, etc. but not for majors in English lit, fine arts, and other stuff that's "non-essential".

And let the kids of members of Congress and the military brass, the executives of their contractors like Halliburton, and the foreign policy makers go first! :fiery: BTW, this is bipartisan; by the time of Obama's Afghan "surge", it already met his 2002 definition of a "dumb war". :rolleyes:Non-essential? To whom? :unsure::unsure::crying2:

Londoner
Mar 16th, 2012, 11:51 AM
Indeed. At some point you have to let people play out their own scenarios in their own country.

Agree.

Londoner
Mar 16th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I see the soldier has been transferred to Kuwait. And he already has a 'top' lawyer saying he was unfit to serve. That explains it then.

This is just so bad. It may sound cruel, but do the US and UK never learn? For the sake of International relations he should stand trial in Afghanistan. What would happen if an Afghan did this in the US? He'd be tried in the US.

King Halep
Mar 16th, 2012, 12:36 PM
^and do you have any belief that this afghan govt can do anything right? all they are good at is making a lot of noise and embezzle the american taxpayer dollars being flung at them. if an Afghan did this in the US, they would send their seals to find him and shoot him without any trial so they dont need to bother with actually putting a proper case together

fifiricci
Mar 16th, 2012, 02:05 PM
I see the soldier has been transferred to Kuwait. And he already has a 'top' lawyer saying he was unfit to serve. That explains it then.

This is just so bad. It may sound cruel, but do the US and UK never learn? For the sake of International relations he should stand trial in Afghanistan. What would happen if an Afghan did this in the US? He'd be tried in the US.
Hear hear. The hypocrisy and double standards of the USA in this case are stupefying. :rolleyes:

wild.river
Mar 23rd, 2012, 06:57 PM
Sgt. Bales to Face 17 Murder Charges


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577298081237407836.html


it'll be a travesty if he gets off. not only because of the people he killed, but the backlash american troops will face.

King Halep
Mar 23rd, 2012, 07:09 PM
So what responsibility does the army have here or does it have none? Remembering that this was previously an excellent soldier who had already been through some of the worst fighting in iraq. They do need this kind of thing to happen before anyone bothers to question about sending soldiers back indefinitely. There seems to be this fake patriotism and concern for 'our heroes' in the general population, but then when one of them cracks from overuse, its the "he's not one of our boys, he's on his own" mentality. No America has learned little from Vietnam.

esquímaux
Mar 23rd, 2012, 08:02 PM
I see the soldier has been transferred to Kuwait. And he already has a 'top' lawyer saying he was unfit to serve. That explains it then.

This is just so bad. It may sound cruel, but do the US and UK never learn? For the sake of International relations he should stand trial in Afghanistan. What would happen if an Afghan did this in the US? He'd be tried in the US.
Agree with your point on Int'l relations. Given that this involves the military, the U.S. should have a SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) with Afghanistan when matters of this nature occur. I'm assuming the reason he hasn't been turned over to Afghan officials is becomes the Afghan gov't isn't developed enough to comprehend or abide by a SOFA.

Now had this happened in Japan, preparations to turn the soldier over to Japanese authorities would already be underway.