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View Full Version : How did Martina lose 2 US Open finals by scores of 7-6 1-6 & 7-6??


daze11
Feb 22nd, 2012, 07:18 PM
I just realized that this morning..... I am so old, I probably realized it before! But either way, how is that possible? 1-6 7-6 7-6 loss to Tracy in the '81 final and a 7-6 1-6 7-6 loss to Hana in the '85 final.

Only 7-6 0-6 7-6 could be a stranger score in women's tennis, so am I wrong to find that a phenomenal coincidence? I also consider her an extraordinary tie-break player, so this makes it all the wilder.

Sumarokov-Elston
Feb 22nd, 2012, 07:31 PM
I also consider her an extraordinary tie-break player, so this makes it all the wilder.

In the Evert-Navratilova head-to-head, their score in tie-breaks is.... 7-6 (in favour of Evert - it was 6-6 until their 1987 Houston match, when Martina had served for the match after being up 5-3 and been within two points of victory).

That is the US Open - Martina was also very close to having two more French Open titles. She lost the 1985 final 7-5 in the third set (after being within five points of victory when Chris served at 5-5, 0-40). Then she lost the 1987 final to Graf 8-6 after serving for the match. So Navratilova could have had 22 Grand Slam singles titles. But then there were all the tight matches that she did squeak through, especially against Evert (1978 W, 1981 AO, 1984 USO, 1985 W + AO, 1987 W, 1988 W). And she also saved match points against Graf to win through at the 1986 US Open...

samn
Feb 22nd, 2012, 07:40 PM
I just realized that this morning..... I am so old, I probably realized it before! But either way, how is that possible? 1-6 7-6 7-6 loss to Tracy in the '81 final and a 7-6 1-6 7-6 loss to Hana in the '85 final.

Only 7-6 0-6 7-6 could be a stranger score in women's tennis, so am I wrong to find that a phenomenal coincidence? I also consider her an extraordinary tie-break player, so this makes it all the wilder.

If Graf had converted her third matchpoint in the 1986 US Open semis, Navratilova would have lost that match by the same score as the 1981 Austin match. But Navratilova felt that she hadn't been aggressive enough in the third set tiebreaker against Mandlikova in the '85 final, so she resolved not to make the same mistake against Graf and keep attacking. Navratilova eventually escaped with a 6-1,6-7,7-6 win. That final tiebreaker score was 10-8.

daze11
Feb 22nd, 2012, 07:45 PM
If Graf had converted her third matchpoint in the 1986 US Open semis, Navratilova would have lost that match by the same score as the 1981 Austin match. But Navratilova felt that she hadn't been aggressive enough in the third set tiebreaker against Mandlikova in the '85 final, so she resolved not to make the same mistake against Graf and keep attacking. Navratilova eventually escaped with a 6-1,6-7,7-6 win. That final tiebreaker score was 10-8.

!!!!!!! ....it's too bizarre....

she probably thought "NOBODY beats Martina Navratilova 7-6 1-6 7-6 THREE TIMES in the SAME TOURNAMENT!!!!" :lol:
(i know it was not the same person in the event where the scores occurred, but anywhere i can use some variation of the vitas gerulaitis quote, i try)

LightWarrior
Feb 22nd, 2012, 09:08 PM
This thread makes me think of 2 very similar GS final losses by Monica Seles scorewise. She lost 76 06 63 at the '95 USO against Graf and 76 06 62 at '98 RG against ASV. Looking back I feel that she should have won both matches 76 60.

Wimbledon9
Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:56 PM
There are people who say that really in 1981 the wrong player won, in 1985 I have seen a lot of this match you could say it was allright.

It stays very strange that somebody who makes the most games in these two matches is losing the match. I would have done a lot at that time to change these results was very happy with the match against Graf in 1991 it was one of the few matches Steffi gave a decent handshake after a loss.

If Martina would have less nerves she would have won at least a couple of grandslam tournaments more but that is life, her results are still okay with me if you look at her total together with doubles.

It would have been nice if she would have 3 grandslam tournaments more to get equel or past Margaret Court with everything we know now.

DennisFitz
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:27 AM
I just realized that this morning..... I am so old, I probably realized it before! But either way, how is that possible? 1-6 7-6 7-6 loss to Tracy in the '81 final and a 7-6 1-6 7-6 loss to Hana in the '85 final.

Only 7-6 0-6 7-6 could be a stranger score in women's tennis, so am I wrong to find that a phenomenal coincidence? I also consider her an extraordinary tie-break player, so this makes it all the wilder.

Agree it's a strange phenomenon with the scores of 2 US Open finals involving the same player. And both ending in 3rd set tiebreak. And sadly, for Martina, she lost both going away. She was never really in those TBs.

I do think the 1981 and 1985 finals were very different. Martina was blowing away Tracy, but just couldn't seal the deal. and then she found herself in a very tight and nervy 3rd set affair. Was obvious at the end, Tracy's nerves were better.

The 1985 was a whirlwind of a match. Who could forget Hana sprinting to a 5-0 lead, only to have to struggle to win the set in a tiebreak. When Martina won the 2nd set 6-1, it meant 12 of 15 games to Martina. I really thought Martina would establish herself in that 3rd. But Hana was real tough that day. And she held her nerve , especially at the end of the match. Thrilling exciting tennis. I wonder if we will ever see another 3rd set final at the US Open.

Martina was a great TB player. Except when she was nervous.

Pat Bateman
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:27 AM
I just realized that this morning..... I am so old, I probably realized it before! But either way, how is that possible? 1-6 7-6 7-6 loss to Tracy in the '81 final and a 7-6 1-6 7-6 loss to Hana in the '85 final.

Only 7-6 0-6 7-6 could be a stranger score in women's tennis, so am I wrong to find that a phenomenal coincidence? I also consider her an extraordinary tie-break player, so this makes it all the wilder.

You're reaching a little, dude. Tennis players do sometimes lose matches by the same score and its just due to the law of averages.

Are you suggesting a conspiracy or something?:oh:

samn
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:30 AM
!!!!!!! ....it's too bizarre....

she probably thought "NOBODY beats Martina Navratilova 7-6 1-6 7-6 THREE TIMES!!!!" :lol:


It was a different tournament and Navratilova was, of course, at the very end of her first singles career, but she did lose 1-6,7-6,7-6 in the 1994 Oakland final to Sanchez Vicario. That was Martina's last ever singles final on the WTA Tour and also the only time ASV won an indoor title!

tommystar
Feb 23rd, 2012, 11:12 AM
If Graf had converted her third matchpoint in the 1986 US Open semis, Navratilova would have lost that match by the same score as the 1981 Austin match. But Navratilova felt that she hadn't been aggressive enough in the third set tiebreaker against Mandlikova in the '85 final, so she resolved not to make the same mistake against Graf and keep attacking. Navratilova eventually escaped with a 6-1,6-7,7-6 win. That final tiebreaker score was 10-8.

During that final set tiebreak at the 1986 semi, the male commentator pointed out that fact.
Pam Shriver was also in the booth and said "When I beat her in the 1978 semi it was 7-6 7-6 for me, so Martina's tiebreaks on the Louis Armstrong Arena are a disaster." or sg. LOL at Pam.

daze11
Feb 23rd, 2012, 03:10 PM
It was a different tournament and Navratilova was, of course, at the very end of her first singles career, but she did lose 1-6,7-6,7-6 in the 1994 Oakland final to Sanchez Vicario. That was Martina's last ever singles final on the WTA Tour and also the only time ASV won an indoor title!
The plot thickens!!! :lol:

newmark401
Feb 23rd, 2012, 06:54 PM
Martina's record at the US Open against Steffi Graf is interesting. They played five times in all at Flushing Meadows and Martina won four of the matches; in the other one she led by a set and a break before collapsing (or perhaps Steffi began to play better; I haven't been able to watch that particular match yet). They had a good few tiebreaks in their encounters at the US Open, with Martina winning three out of five:

1985 - semi-finals - Navratilova d. Graf 6-2, 6-3
1986 - semi-finals - Navratilova d. Graf 6-1, 6-7, 7-6. Probably their best match; Martina saved three match points in the third set to win.
1987 - final - Navratilova d. Graf 7-6, 6-1
1989 - final - Graf d. Navratilova 3-6, 7-5, 6-1. Martina led 6-3, 4-3, with her serve to come.
1991 - semi-final - Navratilova d. Graf 7-6, 6-7, 6-4. Another very close encounter, where Martina proved that she could hold both her nerve and her serve at the same time.
-----

alfajeffster
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:10 PM
1991 - semi-final - Navratilova d. Graf 7-6, 6-7, 6-4. Another very close encounter, where Martina proved that she could hold both her nerve and her serve at the same time.-----

This is right up there with the best matches I've ever seen Martina play. While Graf's play was a little inconsistent at times, Martina's forehand was incredible that day. So many forehand drives hit down the line with pace and placement without being loopy. Several of them took Steffi totally by surprise and Martina won most of those points easily. Navratilova also ripped a topspin backhand pass from nearly behind her at the baseline in response to an almost perfect Graf lob. I was hoping she would carry over this kind of play into the final, but apparently she left it all on the court against Graf.

samn
Feb 24th, 2012, 06:26 AM
Martina's record at the US Open against Steffi Graf is interesting. They played five times in all at Flushing Meadows and Martina won four of the matches; in the other one she led by a set and a break before collapsing (or perhaps Steffi began to play better; I haven't been able to watch that particular match yet). They had a good few tiebreaks in their encounters at the US Open, with Martina winning three out of five:

1985 - semi-finals - Navratilova d. Graf 6-2, 6-3
1986 - semi-finals - Navratilova d. Graf 6-1, 6-7, 7-6. Probably their best match; Martina saved three match points in the third set to win.
1987 - final - Navratilova d. Graf 7-6, 6-1
1989 - final - Graf d. Navratilova 3-6, 7-5, 6-1. Martina led 6-3, 4-3, with her serve to come.
1991 - semi-final - Navratilova d. Graf 7-6, 6-7, 6-4. Another very close encounter, where Martina proved that she could hold both her nerve and her serve at the same time.
-----

Yeah, Navratilova had Graf's number in New York. Between the US Open and the Slims Championships, Navratilova won six of their eight encounters in New York.

Their 1989 US Open clash was an ok match with both of them playing well at the same time only for a couple of games in the second set. Navratilova was at the top of her game for the first set and a half and, if I remember correctly, Graf served two double faults in one game early in the second set. Navratilova was very solid up until 6-3,4-3 and she then served two double faults in her next service game to level the match at 4-4 in the second.

Tony Trabert in the commentary booth said that for some reason they were both having trouble serving into that particular deuce court that day and from the same end too. Martina had another break point on Graf's serve at 4-4 but Graf erased that with a really sweet backhand cross court. Even so the set seemed to be heading for a tiebreaker, but Navratilova played a loose volley or two at 5-6 and Graf broke her to close out the set.

Still, they were 1-1 at the start of the third set, but once Graf broke Navratilova for 3-1, she never looked back. In the third set Graf was the aggressor, hitting the lines, coming in to the net occasionally, and generally serving very well. But Navratilova, although a bit rattled after she lost her serve at 1-2, was still in the match until her second service game at 1-4. When Graf broke her with a backhand volley winner, Martina looked very dispirited and Graf had, I think, a pretty comfortable hold to close it out.

Probably my favourite moment from the match came late in the second set. It was a very humid day in Flushing and Graf's skirt was soaked with sweat. I think it was in the 6-5 game that Mary Carillo pointed out that Graf had, without too many people noticing, changed her skirt during the changeover by simply slipping on a new one over the old one and then taking the old one off. Carillo's reaction to this: "This makes you think that Steffi thinks this match is going to a third set." :lol:

Actually now that I think about it, the match was still a lot better that 99% of the errorfests we've been seeing lately. But I'd agree with whoever it was who said that the 1986 and 1991 semis were better played matches.

DennisFitz
Feb 27th, 2012, 05:47 AM
You're reaching a little, dude. Tennis players do sometimes lose matches by the same score and its just due to the law of averages.

Are you suggesting a conspiracy or something?:oh:

Hmmm.....when you've played as many matches as Martina did during her career, the law of averages will say there will be a lot of similar scores. But I do think it was kind of eerie that Martina would lose 2 US Open finals 7-6 in the third. And that the other two sets both had the exact same scores in different matches against different opponents.

That 1994 Oakland final was reminiscent of the 1981 US Open final. Martina came out smoking against Arantxa, and was dominating. She had many chances to wrap it up in 2 sets. She should have won in the 3rd. I thought, no way would Martina lose to Arantxa in a 3rd set TB an indoor court where she had so much success. And it would mean losing again by the strange score of 1-6,7-6,7-6. But yup, it happened.

daze11
Feb 27th, 2012, 03:56 PM
Hmmm.....when you've played as many matches as Martina did during her career, the law of averages will say there will be a lot of similar scores. But I do think it was kind of eerie that Martina would lose 2 US Open finals 7-6 in the third. And that the other two sets both had the exact same scores in different matches against different opponents.

chris for instance has never won or lost a match, at any stage of any tournament, 7-6 1-6 7-6 in all the years she played...

samn
Feb 27th, 2012, 04:50 PM
chris for instance has never won or lost a match, at any stage of any tournament, 7-6 1-6 7-6 in all the years she played...

I mentioned a match that Navratilova lost to Sanchez Vicario 1-6,7-6,7-6 in 1994. Thinking about this match reminded me that in three of the four Slam finals that Sanchez Vicario won, her losing opponent won at least as many games as (if not more than) Sanchez Vicario.

1989 French Open
Sanchez Vicario d. Graf 7-6,3-6,7-5
No. of games won by Sanchez Vicario = 17
No. of games won by Graf = 17

1994 US Open
Sanchez Vicario d. Graf 1-6,7-6,6-4
No. of games won by Sanchez Vicario = 14
No. of games won by Graf = 16

1998 French Open
Sanchez Vicario d. Seles 7-6,0-6,6-2
No. of games won by Sanchez Vicario = 13
No. of games won by Seles = 14

I guess what this means is that in each of those matches, Graf or Seles were able to dominate ASV easily in one set, but were unable to close her out. We could possibly say the same about Navratilova in all her 1-6,7-6,7-6 losses.

tommystar
Feb 27th, 2012, 05:58 PM
That 1994 Oakland final was reminiscent of the 1981 US Open final. Martina came out smoking against Arantxa, and was dominating. She had many chances to wrap it up in 2 sets. She should have won in the 3rd. I thought, no way would Martina lose to Arantxa in a 3rd set TB an indoor court where she had so much success. And it would mean losing again by the strange score of 1-6,7-6,7-6. But yup, it happened.

Have you (or any of you) seen that match? Was it televised?
I only saw 2 or three rallyes of them, and never find it on any trader site.

justineheninfan
Feb 29th, 2012, 05:46 PM
The 85 final Hana was too good for Martina when she was in the zone but she went in and out of the zone throughout the match. Martina played a great match, Hana was just too good in spurts of the match and hence won in the end.

The 81 final was a big time mental collapse from Martina after a dominant 1st set combined with the mentally tough and ever composed Tracy gradually finding her real game after being unable to cope with the wind (and a surging Martina) in a disaesterous 1st set.

justineheninfan
Feb 29th, 2012, 05:51 PM
It was a different tournament and Navratilova was, of course, at the very end of her first singles career, but she did lose 1-6,7-6,7-6 in the 1994 Oakland final to Sanchez Vicario. That was Martina's last ever singles final on the WTA Tour and also the only time ASV won an indoor title!

ASV was also down 6-2, 3-0 to a barely 14 year old Venus Williams in the 2nd round of that same tournament and fought back to win, I think sweeping 12 games in a row. I guess she really badly wanted that first indoor title and wasnt going to let any 14 or 38 year old stop her. :lol: